:00:06. > :00:16.Welcome to the politics show. We may have less than a week to save
:00:16. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :00:53.Hearn in the east, children in care facing an uncertain future as
:00:53. > :00:57.council's move away from running residential homes. And after a
:00:57. > :01:07.pivotal week in politics with grim news from the Chancellor and the
:01:07. > :01:07.
:01:07. > :34:39.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2012 seconds
:34:39. > :34:44.bigger strike for a generation, we Welcome to the part of the
:34:44. > :34:48.programme for us in the east. Later, in a week where the government
:34:48. > :34:52.admitted it won't achieve its own pledged to close the deficit by the
:34:52. > :34:56.end of this Parliament, and saw the public sector stage the bigger
:34:56. > :35:02.stride for 30 years, we speak to the business Secretary about his
:35:02. > :35:09.hopes for the East. This region has enormous potential, if you look at
:35:09. > :35:14.life sciences, and science work around Norwich, this is the
:35:14. > :35:21.tremendous success stories across Europe. And we met the woman who
:35:21. > :35:25.strikes fear into the heart of the Prime Minister. The number of
:35:25. > :35:30.children has homes in this region is shrinking, moving could ring
:35:30. > :35:34.care elsewhere. Most of our council still run children's homes, and
:35:34. > :35:38.also independent providers. There are no council-run homes in Luton
:35:38. > :35:44.and Southend, and Essex is trying to join them by closing seven of
:35:44. > :35:48.its homes. But it has been taken to court by one of its own teenagers,
:35:48. > :35:52.trying to stop it pushing ahead with plans. The judge ruled that
:35:52. > :35:55.the closures could go ahead but he was highly critical of how or the
:35:55. > :35:59.council is implementing the measures and you were called it
:35:59. > :36:03.could not move children out unless they want to go. The case
:36:03. > :36:09.highlights the changes for children in care as councils increasingly
:36:09. > :36:14.look to private provision or having no residential care at all.
:36:14. > :36:19.It is a world away from the children's homes from years ago,
:36:19. > :36:25.one of the charities which once this home, says it is not right for
:36:25. > :36:32.everyone but can have advantages. Live in in aid children's home, you
:36:32. > :36:40.have got more staff. You can go up and speak to them about problems.
:36:40. > :36:45.If you live in a foster place, you have only got two people to go to.
:36:45. > :36:50.We can offer stability, unfortunately, quite a few trilled
:36:50. > :36:54.and will go through a number of foster homes and I think if you can
:36:54. > :36:59.get the right residential home with the right people who are properly
:36:59. > :37:05.trained and recruited, and you can settle children down, then I think
:37:05. > :37:09.the stability bit is the most important thing. Jerome went from a
:37:09. > :37:13.Norfolk Trojans home to train at a London drama school, but he has
:37:13. > :37:19.also become a campaign after hearing that Essex is planning to
:37:19. > :37:24.close seven of the homes. -- Norfolk's children's home. It is
:37:24. > :37:28.the same as it happens in your home, your children is taken away, it is
:37:28. > :37:33.no different. People build up relationships with their carers,
:37:33. > :37:38.they should be, you need that support structure. Without it, how
:37:38. > :37:42.are you supposed to come home and talk to your carers. A teenager
:37:42. > :37:46.took Essex County Council to the home court, it is ruled the council
:37:46. > :37:50.would have to guarantee it will not move children out unless it is in
:37:50. > :37:56.their best interest and only after their views have been taken into
:37:56. > :38:02.account. He is very happy that he will be able to stay there and he
:38:02. > :38:06.hopes he can until he is 18. Almost another year. He is very pleased
:38:06. > :38:11.about that. I think he would quite have liked to have a ruling from
:38:11. > :38:15.the court. That it was unlawful, but he accepted his barrister's
:38:15. > :38:20.advice that what he got from the court was the best outcome he could
:38:20. > :38:24.achieve. This home is one of six in Norfolk part-funded by charity and
:38:24. > :38:27.part-funded by the county council, we have contacted authorities
:38:27. > :38:32.across the region, and those who have got back say they have no
:38:32. > :38:36.plans to change the ownership or privatise homes. Although some say
:38:36. > :38:40.they only use homes for those needing specialist care. When you
:38:40. > :38:45.look at the figures, you can see why some councils would look
:38:45. > :38:51.towards fostering. It industry show that looking after someone for just
:38:51. > :38:58.one week in a council-run home, costs two and a half 1000 pounds.
:38:58. > :39:03.For an independent home, 2250, and for foster care, that figure drops
:39:03. > :39:07.to �400. It is reported that Essex could save a million per year by
:39:07. > :39:11.shutting homes, the High Court did not say they could not do it but
:39:11. > :39:15.was highly critical for allowing children to think they could be
:39:15. > :39:21.forced out by Christmas. communication that the judge was
:39:21. > :39:27.critical of was in the judicial review papers. We have not push
:39:27. > :39:33.that. As clearly as we could have done that it was a target date, it
:39:33. > :39:37.was never a definite. You have got to go through the planning process
:39:37. > :39:40.with young people. The judge was caving and he said it caused
:39:40. > :39:48.unnecessary distress for the children, what is your reaction to
:39:48. > :39:53.that? We hear what the judge said, and we accept the criticism. We
:39:53. > :39:57.have been working very closely with young people on their care plans.
:39:57. > :40:01.If the target date for good planning reasons has to be put into
:40:01. > :40:06.the papers, if that is being misunderstood and we have not
:40:06. > :40:13.communicated that, then that is unfortunate. Back in London to Rome
:40:14. > :40:18.has the play for Essex, here. would urge them to be careful, for
:40:19. > :40:26.services like residential care and foster care, they will be pushed to
:40:26. > :40:31.breaking point. When you reduce the service, you need to be careful.
:40:31. > :40:36.That play was taken to Norman Lamb, the MP for Norfolk, earlier this
:40:36. > :40:40.week he met with our reporter who began by asking him if it is wrong
:40:40. > :40:47.that a teenage boy should have to take Essex County Council to court
:40:47. > :40:53.in the first place. It is deeply troubling that this youngster feels
:40:53. > :40:57.it is necessary to pursue legal action. It suggests a real failure
:40:57. > :41:05.of communication in the sense that for him, he is not being listened
:41:05. > :41:10.to. Sometimes difficult judgments must be made. Every public body has
:41:10. > :41:14.a responsibility to use money to best effect, and what we are all
:41:14. > :41:20.trying to achieve is trying to improve care and improve the
:41:20. > :41:27.services which are provided. At a lower cost. If you can achieve that
:41:27. > :41:32.then that is a good thing. The very fact that that youngster feels it
:41:32. > :41:36.necessary to pursue legal action suggests there is something flawed
:41:36. > :41:40.about the process the county is pursuing. If a local council said
:41:40. > :41:45.to you and said we are thinking of closing out children's homes,
:41:45. > :41:50.outsourcing up a care for gullible trilled and, should we do it? What
:41:50. > :41:54.would your advice be? My advice would be that you must act in the
:41:54. > :42:00.best interest of children and individual children, and we must
:42:00. > :42:06.make sure that whenever we place a child, it is determined by their
:42:06. > :42:12.needs. Their interest, rather than on the basis of any institutional
:42:12. > :42:16.bias. His cost a driving factor behind decisions like this to close
:42:16. > :42:22.the council's in-house Trojans care homes. In Essex it is going to save
:42:22. > :42:26.more than a million pounds a year, they say. You always have to look
:42:26. > :42:31.at how money is being spent, whether it is being spent
:42:31. > :42:37.effectively. Any political party, where at a national level or local
:42:37. > :42:42.level must do with money. These are the most vulnerable to children it
:42:42. > :42:46.in society, you must get it right for them. Peter Byrne is with me,
:42:46. > :42:52.the Conservative MP for Wellingborough. And we have the
:42:52. > :42:56.chief executive of the Who cares Trust. To you first of all, was
:42:56. > :43:01.there a surprise when you heard that Essex County Council had
:43:01. > :43:05.decided to close their homes? Absolutely, everybody who works in
:43:05. > :43:10.the care sector was stunned when we heard Essex were going to close
:43:10. > :43:15.almost all of their homes. These homes were particularly good. They
:43:15. > :43:19.were exemplary, they were practising a model for social
:43:19. > :43:23.pedagogy, the best practice in children's homes, all of their
:43:23. > :43:27.staff were being trained in this model. Their staff were going to
:43:27. > :43:30.conferences and seminars telling people how well this was working
:43:30. > :43:35.and showing how this was leading to better outcomes for the young
:43:35. > :43:40.people in the homes. They were a model of good practice, and we were
:43:40. > :43:43.all very surprised when we heard what Essex were planning. Peter
:43:43. > :43:48.Byrne, does it worry you that a charge has had to take his own case
:43:48. > :43:53.to court and has fought for his case to stay in their home. Norman
:43:53. > :43:57.Lamb said it was very surprising, but from my point of view, I have
:43:57. > :44:02.always listen to people from the care sector who say children are
:44:02. > :44:05.better off in foster care rather than residential. I am a little
:44:05. > :44:09.surprise that people are saying we should have more residential care
:44:09. > :44:15.homes. That does not seem to be what people have said to me in the
:44:15. > :44:20.past. Natasha, what is the place for care homes in this day and age?
:44:20. > :44:25.They have a very important role to play, but we must guard against a
:44:25. > :44:29.sense of a hierarchy of care. Policy makers at the moment seem to
:44:29. > :44:33.indicate that they feel adoption is the best place for trilled and,
:44:33. > :44:37.followed by fostering, followed by children's homes. I think any
:44:37. > :44:43.ideological view of where a child should be placed is dangerous, that
:44:43. > :44:47.moves us away, as Norman Lamb was saying from individualised
:44:47. > :44:51.decisions based on each child's best interest. Many children are
:44:51. > :44:57.better off in homes, the children's homes are improving across the
:44:57. > :45:01.country, whoever runs them. Private companies, or the voluntary sector,
:45:01. > :45:06.across the board when inspected by Ofsted, they are all getting better.
:45:06. > :45:09.For many children, that is where they want to be. They don't want to
:45:09. > :45:14.be placed with a family because they have a family of their own. In
:45:14. > :45:17.some cases fostering would not be possible or best because they have
:45:17. > :45:23.come such difficult backgrounds with psychological and emotional
:45:23. > :45:30.trauma. It would be difficult for them to manage their behaviour.
:45:30. > :45:34.Peter Bone, in your constituency, as I understand the decisions for
:45:34. > :45:40.disabled should and could change, would you like to see care homes
:45:40. > :45:44.stay in council hands? It should be individual for the child. Care in
:45:44. > :45:47.the community, everybody said people must be cared for in the
:45:47. > :45:52.community and that was the great thing. Now we are saying some
:45:52. > :45:58.cannot be cared for in the community. That is probably what we
:45:58. > :46:03.are saying we have residential care. As chairman of the Council Against
:46:03. > :46:08.trafficking, we saw that they need to be in a residential home
:46:08. > :46:13.separately, and fostering for them would be wrong for them. I don't
:46:13. > :46:19.think you should say one idea is right, you must look at the mix.
:46:19. > :46:24.Natasha is absolutely right. Natasha, thank you very much. Peter
:46:24. > :46:28.Bone, we will come back to you later. Quite a week, the economic
:46:28. > :46:32.forecasts in the autumn statement went from bad to worse. Now a one-
:46:32. > :46:36.in-three chance of recession. The deficit will probably not be
:46:36. > :46:40.cleared in this Parliament. A public sector pay cap, and if that
:46:40. > :46:44.is not enough an extra 300,000 people in the public sector will
:46:44. > :46:48.probably lose their jobs. Against this backdrop the business
:46:48. > :46:54.secretary was in Norwich on Friday addressing a conference on how to
:46:54. > :46:59.make the economy grow. These are the people on whom the
:46:59. > :47:02.government is pinning its hopes of recovery. The leaders of the
:47:02. > :47:07.region's small and medium-sized businesses. If they can grow they
:47:07. > :47:12.will create more jobs and kick- start a fragile economy. All were
:47:12. > :47:17.in surprisingly positive mood, but most also admitted to having
:47:17. > :47:24.worried. Lots of opportunity but people are making it very slow to
:47:24. > :47:28.make decisions. Why? I think they are frightened. There is worry with
:47:28. > :47:33.many clients about staff, but that is what will happen in the
:47:33. > :47:38.situation we are in. They are spending the money surviving.
:47:38. > :47:42.are hard, I think it is always in the back of your mind that things
:47:42. > :47:47.could stop completely. Things are rumbling along OK at the moment but
:47:47. > :47:53.it could all change. The business community is determined. What is
:47:53. > :47:57.going on is not good news but we just must carry on. I think we can,
:47:57. > :48:02.Norfolk has been ignored by the government, which is why we have
:48:03. > :48:06.since cable here. The business Secretary was also trying to be as
:48:06. > :48:13.positive as possible, growth the said would come not from the City
:48:13. > :48:17.of London but from the regions. Hours, he believes, is well placed.
:48:17. > :48:22.The enormous potential in this region. If you look at life
:48:22. > :48:28.sciences, and the signs work in Norwich, it is the biggest cluster
:48:28. > :48:33.in Europe. A tremendous success story. Many people in the creative
:48:33. > :48:38.industries and high-tech industries around Cambridge, and advanced many
:48:38. > :48:44.factory at Lotus, we have the work from the North Sea and renewable
:48:44. > :48:49.energy. The work in Great Yarmouth. This region has enormous potential.
:48:49. > :48:52.So why aren't we doing any better? The conference was asked to vote on
:48:53. > :48:56.what they thought the most important thing was to unlock
:48:56. > :49:01.business growth. By a wide majority they said it was the difficulty in
:49:01. > :49:05.obtaining finance. People are worried about the finance flow, but
:49:05. > :49:09.what the government is trying to do is make sure that lending to small
:49:09. > :49:14.companies and medium-sized companies is maintained so that
:49:14. > :49:17.companies have access to capital and we can provide guarantees,
:49:17. > :49:21.making sure the interest rate that the government has on its own
:49:21. > :49:27.borrowing is translated into the borrowing of companies. We have to
:49:27. > :49:31.twist the arms of the banks. The Bank of England this week warned
:49:31. > :49:38.banks they must set aside more money for banks. Will that make it
:49:38. > :49:45.more difficult to spend money? We are asking them to be prudent. They
:49:45. > :49:51.must not go bust again. I think the way of reconciling the two things
:49:51. > :49:55.is to make sure we are ruthless in cutting down on bonuses and on
:49:55. > :49:59.dividend payments. If we do that then they should be saved, whilst
:49:59. > :50:05.at the same time lending more to good British companies who need the
:50:05. > :50:10.capital. What if they don't do that? We have one major bank owned
:50:10. > :50:14.by the government, another is partly owned. All of the banks
:50:14. > :50:17.depend on the government and direct forms of intervention may be needed.
:50:17. > :50:22.This coalition government came into power with a pledge that it would
:50:22. > :50:27.do away with the deficit by the next election, that may well not
:50:27. > :50:31.happen now. We also know that in a mop of public sector people losing
:50:31. > :50:35.their jobs will be far higher than expected. Is this still credible
:50:36. > :50:40.policy? The markets think it is, otherwise we would not have the
:50:40. > :50:44.lowest borrowing rates of any major country, lower than Germany. The
:50:44. > :50:49.reason is that people who lend the government money are confident we
:50:49. > :50:54.have a very clear plan to deal with the deficit. It is a massive
:50:54. > :50:58.problem. Rising out of the financial crisis, the government
:50:58. > :51:05.acquired the biggest deficit in the Western world. We have a plan to
:51:05. > :51:09.deal with it, it has involved a lot of pain and difficulties.
:51:09. > :51:13.haven't lost credibility? Absolutely not, these are difficult
:51:13. > :51:16.times but the government has credibility. We are making
:51:16. > :51:21.decisions unlike Americans and other European countries. A strong
:51:21. > :51:25.government which is united, with a clear programme. We have a clear
:51:25. > :51:30.strategy of dealing with public finances and rebalancing the
:51:30. > :51:37.economy to business investment and export and manufacturing. Stay with
:51:37. > :51:44.us, we still have Peter Bone with us and Michael Kitson, an economist
:51:44. > :51:51.in Cambridge. A robust defence of government policy there, but let us
:51:51. > :51:59.look at the budget, they have cut the budget for the next four years,
:51:59. > :52:03.1.8 lower than expected. His is having an impact on growth? They
:52:03. > :52:07.are having an impact, but it is negative. The austerity measures
:52:07. > :52:12.are not working. It is higher borrowing. A clear strategy as
:52:12. > :52:17.Vince Cable said, but it is not working. We need a new strategy for
:52:17. > :52:21.growth and there is none. Either from the current government, or
:52:21. > :52:25.from the opposition. No clear strategy on how to create growth in
:52:25. > :52:30.the future. This is the big gap in the policy domain at the moment.
:52:30. > :52:35.Vince Cable said that if the banks won't land they will be forced to,
:52:35. > :52:40.one would assume that would be happening already. Thence made the
:52:40. > :52:44.point, and did in opposition, that we are asking the banks to do more
:52:44. > :52:51.two things. We want them to lend more and create more capital. We
:52:51. > :52:57.cannot really ask them to do both. He said we could buy a cutting
:52:57. > :53:03.bonuses and dividends. I agree with that, but trying to lend more and
:53:03. > :53:08.increase the capital base, there is a real problem. Michael Kitson, is
:53:08. > :53:13.there a Plan B? Not at the moment, we need to look at where growth is
:53:13. > :53:16.going to come from. It is not coming from households, we are
:53:16. > :53:22.worried about debt and people losing their jobs. It is not going
:53:22. > :53:26.to come from firms, they are not going to invest. It is not going to
:53:26. > :53:30.come from trade because world economy is stagnant. Where will it
:53:30. > :53:35.come from? It should come from the government taking a more proactive
:53:35. > :53:38.approach. What we must take in mind here is that we have had a
:53:38. > :53:44.significant recession which is causing long-term scars in the
:53:44. > :53:50.economy in this region and the UK. What do you make of that? Michael
:53:50. > :53:54.Kitson saying we need a plan B. we had two more economists they
:53:54. > :53:58.would all be disagreeing. There is credibility and what the government
:53:58. > :54:02.is doing and that is shown in the markets. We do not have a sovereign
:54:02. > :54:07.debt crisis. Personally I would stop paying the extra �22 billion
:54:07. > :54:10.that the government is planning to for the European Union, cap
:54:10. > :54:15.overseas aid and return that in the form of tax cuts to get growth
:54:15. > :54:20.going. But there is no question that the government has credibility
:54:20. > :54:24.in the current policies and we should be grateful. Michael Kitson,
:54:24. > :54:29.I'll be in a downward spiral? economy is that lining, very little
:54:29. > :54:33.growth as we have seen from the forecasts. It is likely to go on
:54:33. > :54:38.for five to 10 years. The economy will have very slow growth, one per
:54:38. > :54:43.cent on year for the next five-10 years. Much lower than we normally
:54:43. > :54:46.expect, it would normally be too- three per cent, that is stagnant
:54:46. > :54:53.growth, but many people have talked about the last decade which will
:54:53. > :54:58.face us in the future. That is why we need a plan that be. We need a
:54:58. > :55:04.growth strategy, or from the opposition telling us what they
:55:04. > :55:09.will do. It is just not there yet. -- Plan B. We need strategies for
:55:09. > :55:16.growth. We have seen this plan a before, the one we had currently,
:55:16. > :55:20.the last decade in the 1920s. We are seeing it again. Plan A and
:55:20. > :55:25.Plan B, I think that is rubbish. When the facts change you change
:55:25. > :55:29.your policy. I think it is a sensible course at the moment. None
:55:29. > :55:32.of this will be solved until the euro-zone crisis is dealt with, and
:55:33. > :55:37.until we get rid of this ridiculous Europe and countries go back to
:55:37. > :55:42.their own currencies. We will come back to it on another day, thank
:55:42. > :55:52.you. Nowt to the woman who David Cameron's tries most to plays, it
:55:52. > :55:52.
:55:52. > :56:01.is not his wife apparently, but our guest. I am open to people coming
:56:01. > :56:09.to speak to me. I am a good listener, neighbours, coffee shops,
:56:09. > :56:14.at the coalface, as it were. Jenny Bone, wife of the
:56:14. > :56:22.Wellingborough MP. She is regarded as the sound of the silent majority,
:56:22. > :56:27.how did she and this accolade? With a little help from her husband.
:56:27. > :56:31.Bone wanted to know, whether a bail-out payment before 2013,
:56:31. > :56:35.despite qualified majority voting, Britain would vote No in any case?
:56:35. > :56:39.I know she would be very happy if the Prime Minister give that
:56:39. > :56:46.undertaking and it would be very helpful for our household if she
:56:46. > :56:56.would. I do feel as if a big part of my life is trying to give
:56:56. > :56:56.
:56:56. > :57:02.pleasure to Mrs Bone. Mr Bone macro strategy is epitomised by his wife
:57:02. > :57:07.of 30 years. We disagree on many things. More than you would think,
:57:07. > :57:12.I think. Capital punishment, I think we disagree on that. We
:57:12. > :57:19.disagree on a number of things. I expect him to be perfect and he
:57:19. > :57:24.expects me to be perfect, we are too stubborn. In equal measure.
:57:24. > :57:29.is only by talking to Jenny that I feel I know what is going on in the
:57:29. > :57:33.constituency. People speak to me about individual cases, but Jenny
:57:33. > :57:38.reflects through our daily conversations, and we will speak
:57:38. > :57:43.late at night and she will tell me what has been going on. I pass back
:57:43. > :57:47.to Peter what I hear from people. They are not necessarily my views
:57:47. > :57:53.and I don't necessarily always agree with what I'm hearing, but I
:57:53. > :57:58.pass it on to him. Who will talk to me at 2am about what is going on?
:57:58. > :58:03.That is a huge advantage, something which has worked really well.
:58:03. > :58:11.Anyone who can be married to me for 30 years must be close to a saint.
:58:11. > :58:15.Very nice words, but a serious sense of it. The reason I do it is
:58:15. > :58:20.because as Jenny says, it reflects what my constituents are saying.
:58:20. > :58:26.Every time the club is run it repeats the question, and it gets
:58:26. > :58:30.publicity for what my constituents are saying. Will Mrs Bone continue