:00:06. > :00:09.This week on the Politics Show: Clegg and Cameron seemingly at war
:00:09. > :00:14.over Europe. Can the coalition survive the Deputy Prime Minister's
:00:14. > :00:17.fury and dismay over last week's Euro veto? We will be joined by
:00:17. > :00:20.Nick Clegg's closest adviser, Norman Lamb.
:00:20. > :00:24.And as Tory Euro-sceptic MPs celebrate what they see as David
:00:24. > :00:29.Cameron's victory in Brussels, is Britain headed for the EU exit? We
:00:29. > :00:31.will ask John Redwood and a very worried Lib Dem peer.
:00:31. > :00:36.Can the government really turn around the lives of Britain's
:00:36. > :00:46.problem families by the end of this Parliament? Communities Secretary
:00:46. > :00:47.
:00:47. > :00:52.Eric Pickles thinks so, but how? And remember this? Why have you
:00:52. > :00:59.issued a briefing document called Calamity Clegg? I have not. This
:00:59. > :01:02.came from your office on Friday to the Politics Show. I did not see it.
:01:02. > :01:11.As the Politics Show says goodbye, we look back on our highlights from
:01:11. > :01:15.the last nine years. In London - parking war in
:01:15. > :01:25.Westminster. Westminster Council resists calls to scrap plans for
:01:25. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :01:32.And with me throughout the programme are the former political
:01:32. > :01:39.editor of the Observer, Gaby Hinsliff, and the Sun's associate
:01:39. > :01:42.editor Trevor Kavanagh. Welcome to the show. First, the News.
:01:42. > :01:46.Thank you, good afternoon. The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg
:01:46. > :01:50.has told the BBC he is bitterly disappointed by the outcome of this
:01:50. > :01:53.week's European summit. He warned Britain could be left isolated and
:01:53. > :01:58.marginalised after David Cameron's decision to veto a new EU treaty to
:01:58. > :02:04.stabilise the euro. Here is our political correspondent, Adam
:02:04. > :02:08.Fleming. They are the two leaders of
:02:08. > :02:12.different parties whose personal bond holds this coalition together.
:02:12. > :02:16.Until this morning when Nick Clegg delivered his verdict on the EU
:02:16. > :02:21.summit. I am bitterly disappointed by the outcome of last week's
:02:21. > :02:25.summit, precisely because I think there is a real danger that over
:02:25. > :02:30.time the United Kingdom will be isolated and marginalised within
:02:30. > :02:33.the European Union. I do not think that is good for jobs in the city
:02:33. > :02:37.or elsewhere. I do not think it is good for growth or good for
:02:37. > :02:40.families up and down the country. That is why I as a Liberal Democrat
:02:40. > :02:45.will do everything I can to make sure this setback does not become a
:02:45. > :02:49.permanent divide. It is a much tougher tone than the one he used
:02:49. > :02:53.on Friday when he offered the Prime Minister lukewarm support. And it
:02:53. > :02:58.is very different from David Cameron's message, hours after he
:02:58. > :03:03.refused to be part of a new European treaty. I think it is
:03:03. > :03:05.right for Britain to say which bits of Europe both -- most benefit ass
:03:05. > :03:10.and focus on those. I'm not frightened of the fact that
:03:10. > :03:17.sometimes you might not be included in something. Are we better outside
:03:18. > :03:19.the euro? You bet we are. Nick Clegg also infuriated Euro-sceptics
:03:19. > :03:24.in the Prime Minister's party calling them spectacularly
:03:24. > :03:30.misguided. I hear it this about the bulldog spirit. There is nothing
:03:30. > :03:34.bulldog about Britain hovering in the mid-Atlantic. But he does not
:03:34. > :03:38.want to push the eject button on the coalition and Conservative
:03:38. > :03:41.ministers say the relationship still works. Certainly there are
:03:41. > :03:46.differences between parties in a coalition on a subject like this,
:03:46. > :03:51.but as we always have over the last 18 months, we work through those
:03:51. > :03:55.things to a common position. David Cameron will make a statement on
:03:55. > :03:58.the summit in the Commons tomorrow. The reaction of MPs and the squirms
:03:58. > :04:02.on the front bench will tell us how far apart the two coalition
:04:03. > :04:05.partners have become on the issue of Europe.
:04:05. > :04:08.United Nations talks in South Africa on climate change had ended
:04:09. > :04:12.with a last-minute deal to compel, for the first time, all the world's
:04:12. > :04:15.biggest polluters to take action to curb global warming. Delegates
:04:15. > :04:20.agreed to work towards a new legally binding accord to come into
:04:20. > :04:23.effect by 2020. The climate change secretary, Chris Huhne, accepted
:04:23. > :04:33.that a lot remained to be done, but insisted the agreement was a big
:04:33. > :04:37.step forward. In what we have done today is actually a great success
:04:37. > :04:42.for European diplomacy. We have managed to put this on the map and
:04:42. > :04:46.we have managed to bring the major emitters like the United States and
:04:46. > :04:49.India and China into a road map which will secure an overarching
:04:49. > :04:52.global deal. A report from the Financial
:04:52. > :04:55.Services Authority will be highly critical of its own role in the
:04:56. > :04:59.events which led to the collapse of the Royal Bank of Scotland three
:04:59. > :05:02.years ago. The report will say staff at the City regulator lacked
:05:02. > :05:04.the skills to monitor companies as complex as RBS, but that its
:05:05. > :05:08.failure was ultimately due to decisions made by the bank's
:05:08. > :05:16.management. Our next bulletin on BBC 1 is at
:05:16. > :05:19.5:30pm this afternoon. Now back to Jon Sopel.
:05:19. > :05:21.Thank you. What an unbelievable image, the
:05:21. > :05:24.pro-European Deputy Prime Minister alone in his apartment in Sheffield
:05:24. > :05:29.being run at 4 o'clock in the morning by David Cameron to say
:05:29. > :05:32.that he had used the veto and the rest of the EU were going it alone.
:05:32. > :05:39.The reverberations in Europe and the ructions in the coalition are
:05:39. > :05:43.still playing themselves out. Trevor, how DEC this unfolding?
:05:43. > :05:47.don't think anyone in London or Brussels fully anticipated the
:05:47. > :05:52.consequences of what David Cameron did on Friday but what he has done
:05:52. > :05:57.is to trigger a sequence of events which I now unstoppable and will
:05:57. > :06:02.lead to the logical conclusion of which means we will leave the
:06:02. > :06:07.European Union. This cannot be reversed. I have got to ask you
:06:07. > :06:12.this. Is that wishful thinking or is that cold political analysis?
:06:12. > :06:15.think it is an analysis which has proved correct since the launch of
:06:15. > :06:19.the European single currency. It was never going to succeed. It is
:06:19. > :06:25.doomed to failure one way or another and this is simply a part
:06:25. > :06:29.of that process. Do you share that analysis? I don't think it is
:06:29. > :06:33.irreversible. I don't think there is anything which cannot be stopped
:06:33. > :06:37.in politics if you have the will to stop it. But I think we are set on
:06:37. > :06:42.a trajectory which will be hard to get off. The other possibility is
:06:42. > :06:46.not that we will leave the EU but there will be no EU left to leave.
:06:46. > :06:49.If you look at the failure to deal with the eurozone crisis, you can
:06:49. > :06:54.see the political entity coming apart as well as the economic
:06:54. > :06:57.entity. Thank you. In a moment, we will talk to voices
:06:57. > :07:04.from both sides of the coalition and both sides of the euro divide,
:07:04. > :07:08.but first, here is a reminder of how we got here.
:07:08. > :07:12.Agent Cameron packed his attache case for a trip to Brussels this
:07:12. > :07:16.week for what turned out to the Mission impossible. The assignment,
:07:16. > :07:20.support a treaty which might help to save the eurozone crisis if by
:07:20. > :07:26.creating a deeper fiscal union and protecting the city. By the early
:07:26. > :07:32.hours of Friday morning, that mission was aborted as Sarkozy and
:07:32. > :07:39.Merkel rejected the plan. The result, a bleary-eyed Cameron.
:07:39. > :07:43.was on offer was not in Britain's interests. And the plan is a two-
:07:43. > :07:48.speed Europe. The response was furious with President Sarkozy
:07:48. > :07:52.Colin Cameron's demands unacceptable and Angela Merkel cent
:07:52. > :07:57.Cameron was never really at the table. At home, Tory MPs were
:07:57. > :08:02.celebrating but the morning's front pages are dominated by Nick Clegg's
:08:02. > :08:07.fury and dismay over the veto. Triumph or disaster? Victory or
:08:07. > :08:12.defeat? It is too early to decide. That depends on whether the crisis
:08:12. > :08:17.can be resolved in the reserves. If it cannot, Britain will gain credit
:08:17. > :08:27.for standing aside. But if it does not, the veto could blow up in
:08:27. > :08:30.David Cameron's face. Norman Lamb joins us from Norwich
:08:30. > :08:36.now. Thank you for being with us. Nick Clegg sounded furious this
:08:36. > :08:40.morning, is he? I think he is clearly disappointed. Many people
:08:40. > :08:46.are, particularly in the business community. It should be said that
:08:46. > :08:49.both coalition partners agreed the terms that we should go into the
:08:49. > :08:53.negotiations with. They were modest and reasonable demands. But there
:08:53. > :08:57.is no doubt there where we have got to is not a good place for Britain
:08:57. > :09:01.to be in. If your interest is in jobs and growth and the interests
:09:01. > :09:06.of British business, we have to build alliances across Europe and
:09:06. > :09:10.that has to be the priority now. believe the veto was used because
:09:10. > :09:14.of the unacceptable proposals or because of the constraints that
:09:14. > :09:18.David Cameron finds himself under in the Conservative Party.
:09:18. > :09:20.knows? As Nick indicated this morning, the Prime Minister was
:09:21. > :09:25.clearly caught in a very difficult position with complete
:09:25. > :09:28.intransigence it seems, from the French in particular, and it is a
:09:29. > :09:33.great pity that those reasonable demands, that the British put
:09:33. > :09:37.forward and remember, there was no demand for repatriation of powers,
:09:37. > :09:42.this was just about protecting the single market. It is a great pity
:09:42. > :09:50.that those reasonable demands were not accepted. Was it right to use
:09:50. > :09:55.the veto? Ultimately, where we have got to is not a good place. Hang on.
:09:55. > :09:59.The viewer can listen to that and here you not answering that
:09:59. > :10:03.question. Was it right to use the veto? What we cannot say is whether
:10:03. > :10:07.if the negotiations had continued, we would have got to a better place.
:10:07. > :10:11.The truth is that Britain's interests are damaged by being
:10:11. > :10:16.isolated in Europe. We may also have been in a difficult position
:10:16. > :10:20.had we gone along with a compromise that did not meet the demands which
:10:20. > :10:25.we, as a coalition government, put forward. I think the critical thing
:10:25. > :10:30.now, seriously, is to look forward and the choice that we face is a
:10:30. > :10:36.really important one. Faced with a position that where most of us take
:10:36. > :10:40.the view is... I will talk about the future, I promise I will come
:10:40. > :10:43.to the future but you have raised something very interesting their
:10:43. > :10:47.way you refused to answer the question about whether it was right
:10:47. > :10:52.to use the veto, you said negotiations should have continued
:10:52. > :10:56.longer. Was this a failure of negotiations? Who knows? Unless you
:10:56. > :11:00.were in the room, it is impossible to make the judgment. All I can say
:11:00. > :11:04.is that the demands were reasonable and a picnic's analysis this
:11:04. > :11:07.morning that he was trapped between intransigence from France and the
:11:07. > :11:12.Euro-sceptic Right of the Conservative Party was the right
:11:12. > :11:15.analysis. What I want to focus on is the future. We have a really
:11:15. > :11:21.important choice as a country. Faced with the fact that most
:11:21. > :11:24.people take the view that Europe is in need of serious reform, it
:11:24. > :11:30.regulates too much, it irritates people intensely, the amount that
:11:30. > :11:35.it interferes with people's lives, it needs the reform. The choice is,
:11:35. > :11:38.do you walkaway which the Euro- sceptic Right want to do, or do you
:11:38. > :11:46.lead the case for reform. The Liberal Democrats will support the
:11:46. > :11:49.growth. We are part of a single market of 500 million consumers. It
:11:49. > :11:54.is critical for Britain's interests that we lead the case for
:11:54. > :11:58.liberalising back market, for jobs and growth. You talk about the
:11:58. > :12:02.future. Should Nick Clegg be at the summit to be part of the
:12:02. > :12:06.negotiations? I think in the lead- up to Thursday night, Nick played a
:12:06. > :12:12.very prominent role in talking to European leaders. The without much
:12:12. > :12:16.effect. Well, in seeking alliances. The key thing is that Britain is
:12:16. > :12:20.not alone in its analysis that we need to reform Europe. We need to
:12:20. > :12:23.make the single market more liberal. There are a lot about eyes out
:12:23. > :12:28.there and the challenge for British diplomacy is to build those
:12:28. > :12:31.alliances and Nick will lead the case in talking to businesses, in
:12:31. > :12:33.working with business now to support the case for supporting
:12:34. > :12:38.alliances to make the single market work effectively in Britain's
:12:38. > :12:43.interests. You heard Trevor Kavanagh's analysis that ultimately
:12:43. > :12:46.this will lead to a decision about whether Britain stays in the EU or
:12:46. > :12:51.not. Do you think this could lead to Britain's withdrawal from the
:12:51. > :12:55.European Union? As I said, there is a choice. Trevor Kavanagh
:12:55. > :13:00.represents the view that we should move all the way to leave the EU.
:13:00. > :13:06.Our view is that that would be disastrous. To walk away from the
:13:06. > :13:10.world's biggest single market of 500 million consumers, where over 3
:13:10. > :13:15.million jobs defend -- 3 million jobs depend on trade with Europe,
:13:15. > :13:25.it would be crazy so let's reform Europe, recognise where it fails
:13:25. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:31.but don't walk away. Thank you. And I'm joined by men with two very
:13:31. > :13:33.different views about Europe and David Cameron's veto. Liberal
:13:33. > :13:41.Democrat peer Matthew Oakeshott and Conservative MP and renowned Euro-
:13:41. > :13:47.sceptic John Redwood. John Redwood, I'm sure you disagreed with a lot
:13:47. > :13:51.of what Nick Clegg at said. I think David Cameron used the veto for
:13:51. > :13:56.very good reasons. The deal on the table was unacceptable to the
:13:56. > :14:01.United Kingdom's. It was against the interests of the government and
:14:01. > :14:05.people. What we are talking here is a set of proposals that the
:14:05. > :14:10.European Union come up with for more and more austerity measures to
:14:10. > :14:14.be enforced on countries from the EU with sanctions in order to
:14:14. > :14:18.enforce them. I don't think Mr Clegg does actually want more cuts
:14:18. > :14:22.and more tax increases at the moment in Britain, so surely he is
:14:22. > :14:26.rather relieved that we did not sign up to that, coming from the EU.
:14:26. > :14:32.Did you sense relief when you listen. Was that the emotion you
:14:32. > :14:37.would describe? No, I was trying to reassure him that Britain did the
:14:37. > :14:40.right thing in the right situation. We were out of the room on the euro
:14:40. > :14:43.from the day we wisely decided not go into the euro. I think most
:14:43. > :14:47.people in Britain are heartily relieved that we did not go into
:14:47. > :14:51.the euro. We have never been in a room on the euro because we are not
:14:51. > :14:55.part of it. We should take it further to political union. Britain
:14:55. > :15:05.cannot conceivably be part of that process so we need a new
:15:05. > :15:08.
:15:08. > :15:13.relationship which makes sense for Was it a disaster? Of course it was.
:15:13. > :15:21.It was bad for Brittain. John is a very old friend and a very old
:15:21. > :15:27.political enemy. The agenda is to get as out of Europe. This is
:15:27. > :15:31.deeply damaging both for the country and a coalition. Haven't we
:15:31. > :15:37.witnessed the Liberal Democrats huffing and puffing, unhappy, and
:15:37. > :15:43.unable to do anything about it? am not huffing and puffing. Nick
:15:44. > :15:53.Clegg has called it a bad deal for Brittain and he did not know that
:15:54. > :15:55.
:15:55. > :15:59.David Cameron had exercise the veto. I would say a veto should have been
:15:59. > :16:06.exercised you said, I am not having an puffin, Vince Cable is not
:16:06. > :16:12.huffing and puffing. The position of Vince Cable is, he gave a very
:16:12. > :16:17.serious warning last Monday in the Cabinet, against elevating these
:16:17. > :16:25.financial regulation points in a make or break deal. He did not get
:16:25. > :16:31.any support on that. That warning his birth. Make Clegg was warning
:16:31. > :16:36.David Cameron -- Nick Clegg was warning David Cameron there was a
:16:36. > :16:46.fear it could break down and it did happen. You are a very close friend
:16:46. > :16:49.
:16:49. > :16:52.of Vince Cable. Is he considering Nick Clegg said this was a bad deal
:16:52. > :16:55.for Britain. Nick Clegg is the Deputy Prime Minister and he will
:16:56. > :17:00.be pushing that we should not walk away. Are you absolutely sure the
:17:00. > :17:08.Vince Cable will not resign? I have no idea what Vince Cable will do.
:17:08. > :17:11.Are not huffing and puffing. We are in there fighting. The Liberal
:17:11. > :17:16.Democrats are going to fight to ensure that we are not cut off from
:17:16. > :17:20.Europe as John Redwood and his friends want. You would have to ask
:17:20. > :17:26.other individuals, Vince Cable is fighting to ensure that we are not
:17:26. > :17:30.cut off from Europe. We are not coughing and puffing. So he could
:17:30. > :17:34.be outside the Cabinet? You could read the newspapers this morning.
:17:34. > :17:40.He is saying that it was a mistake and most Liberal Democrats are
:17:40. > :17:44.saying it is a mistake. It was a mistake to try and look after
:17:44. > :17:54.frankly the speedier area of the city of London to make that are
:17:54. > :18:03.
:18:03. > :18:08.David Cameron needed to say something that was hostile to jobs
:18:08. > :18:14.and prosperity. It was wrong to suggest we do not need European
:18:14. > :18:19.trading partners. I always found it easier to export to non- EU
:18:19. > :18:23.countries. The fact that Britain had some involvement in rule-making
:18:23. > :18:28.did not help us much. We need to meet the needs of the customer,
:18:28. > :18:33.that can include government rules and customer requirements. It is
:18:33. > :18:40.not a magic box. You need to tailor it for the different parts of the
:18:40. > :18:45.world. It was easier to export to non EU countries. Speaking on
:18:45. > :18:52.economics, these countries are our biggest trading partners. They are
:18:52. > :19:00.not. They are. On manufacturing, it is over half. The point is, this is
:19:00. > :19:07.much bigger. We could have had this argument in 1931. This is much
:19:07. > :19:12.bigger. We are talking about the Western economies. It seems to me
:19:12. > :19:17.we have a fundamental difficulty with the way the coalition operates.
:19:17. > :19:22.These circumstances were not seen by the coalition agreement. Is it
:19:22. > :19:25.time to go back to that agreement? I do not think that is quite true.
:19:25. > :19:30.What happened was there was clear agreement about what they were
:19:30. > :19:35.trying to achieve. They put forward a very reasonable package. France
:19:35. > :19:40.blocked it. The Prime Minister had to make a decision about getting a
:19:40. > :19:45.deal that Nick Clegg wanted. He had to say No For a start he immediate
:19:45. > :19:52.the reacted and said he did not agree with the Prime Minister. --
:19:52. > :19:58.no. The reason for the mess was the Conservatives broke away from the
:19:58. > :20:02.mains -- mainstream grouping. He should have been talking with
:20:02. > :20:09.Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy. Now we're in with their head
:20:09. > :20:17.bangers in Eastern Europe and cut- off without influence. They up
:20:17. > :20:21.serious democratic politicians as well. Here you have lost a lot of
:20:22. > :20:26.influence. I wanted him to be negotiating seriously with our
:20:27. > :20:35.friends and allies in Western Europe. You think you should have
:20:35. > :20:39.had a veto over the veto? The point is, we are here, we are where we
:20:39. > :20:46.are. There is no political leader in Britain who could have come away
:20:46. > :20:52.with the deer that meant surrendering �30 billion of tax
:20:52. > :21:02.revenue from the City of London. -- a deal. Was there a Fayette in
:21:02. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:07.negotiation? As Nick Clegg said, I want to quote him exactly. -- a
:21:07. > :21:12.failure. I think David Cameron, I do not know whether he overplayed
:21:12. > :21:17.his hand or did not want to do anything in the first place. There
:21:18. > :21:25.is considerable evidence that a walkout quite suited him. The
:21:25. > :21:32.problem is there was a majority in parliament. -- there is no majority
:21:32. > :21:37.in parliament for a veto on Europe. I am sorry. If you looked at the
:21:37. > :21:43.thought bubble coming off David Cameron, it would be, what the hell
:21:43. > :21:48.have I just done? He was forced into it. We only have a minute left.
:21:48. > :21:53.Do you think this could break the coalition? I think that Nick Clegg
:21:53. > :21:57.needs to go back and say we are not going to have a bad deal for
:21:57. > :22:02.Britain and the need to keep fighting. It is a very tense
:22:02. > :22:06.situation. So, it could break the coalition? It could do. I think
:22:06. > :22:11.there is no chance of that was up his first reaction was that David
:22:11. > :22:17.Cameron had no choice to do what he did. I do not think the Liberal
:22:17. > :22:23.Democrats want to have a general election over this issue. You want
:22:23. > :22:26.to get out, that is what you want to do. Four out of five voters
:22:27. > :22:34.agreed with David Cameron. We should trade and be friends but we
:22:34. > :22:39.do not want to be bossed around, taxed. Listening to you two, you
:22:39. > :22:43.seem utterly irreconcilable. If you a marriage guidance counsellors,
:22:43. > :22:47.you would say, you know what kind it is over. We're not in the
:22:47. > :22:50.coalition that we have different views. The Conservative right has
:22:50. > :22:55.never accepted the principle in the coalition agreement that they keep
:22:55. > :23:01.arguing for the referendum, they are the coalition wreckers. There
:23:01. > :23:05.we must leave it. All of you, thank you very much indeed for being with
:23:05. > :23:10.us. As we have been discussing, Nick Clegg has dismissed the idea
:23:10. > :23:14.that the veto last week showed the bulldog spirit of David Cameron.
:23:14. > :23:19.Earlier ice-pick to Eric Pickles and began by asking him whether he
:23:19. > :23:27.thought David Cameron was channelling his in .. In Brussels.
:23:27. > :23:31.-- I spoke. He was channelling his communication. It is strange for
:23:31. > :23:40.someone to say one thing on the House of Commons and follow it up
:23:40. > :23:43.in Europe. He did that. Infuriated the Liberal Democrats saying, Tory
:23:43. > :23:51.Euro-sceptics were spectacularly misguided. There is nothing bulldog
:23:51. > :23:56.about Britain hovering somewhere in the mid-Atlantic. He is furious.
:23:56. > :24:05.They did follow an agreed coalition blind. I was pleased with the
:24:05. > :24:09.reaction from Nick Clegg on Friday. -- line. You are pleased with his
:24:09. > :24:14.reaction today? It means we can move forward on things like the
:24:14. > :24:17.single market. We have been together on foreign policy. Indulge
:24:17. > :24:22.made. You are less pleased with what he said today. Nick Clegg
:24:22. > :24:28.speaks for himself but we can unite on many things. He blames your
:24:28. > :24:36.party for the mess we are now in. It was not an agreed coalition
:24:36. > :24:40.policy. We made for a modest bequest would regard to Industry.
:24:40. > :24:45.Our colleagues in the European Union could not succeed on that and
:24:45. > :24:49.the sensible thing was to use the veto. He said that Tory Euro-
:24:49. > :24:52.sceptics were misguided. I'm not under the same can straighten my
:24:53. > :24:57.Parliamentary Party that David Cameron is. In other words, he had
:24:57. > :25:02.to use the veto, not because what was happening in Brussels but
:25:02. > :25:11.because of his party. That it is misreading the situation. We needed
:25:11. > :25:18.to ensure there would not be any presumption in favour and needed to
:25:18. > :25:23.protect our financial institutions. It was not part of a treaty with
:25:24. > :25:27.their -- renegotiation. So, Nick Clegg has got that wrong. We are
:25:27. > :25:31.prepared to work with Liberal Democrat colleagues on the things
:25:31. > :25:37.that unite us - foreign-policy, spreading out the single market,
:25:37. > :25:42.insuring our markets are opened. We recently saw an increase in trade
:25:43. > :25:47.with North Africa and the like. There is a massive split that
:25:47. > :25:54.Britain finds itself in - alone. The rest of the EU is getting on
:25:54. > :26:00.without us. We are not going to be a member of the euro. We made clear
:26:00. > :26:05.in the coalition document it would not be included in any preparations
:26:06. > :26:09.that were made in the lifetime of this Parliament. Our future lies
:26:09. > :26:15.outside the euro. We need to ensure our institutions are not threatened
:26:15. > :26:20.by that. Let me ask another thing. You said David Cameron negotiated.
:26:20. > :26:24.Nick Clegg said the opposite. For one reason or another, there was no
:26:24. > :26:29.negotiation about the menu of negotiating tasks we made. There
:26:29. > :26:34.was no give and take battle. It became polarised. Over time it is
:26:34. > :26:38.damaging to Britain as a whole. There is an element that we feel a
:26:38. > :26:48.bit let down by our European partners on this. It became clear
:26:48. > :26:54.they were not so willing to cope with an hour -- go with our very
:26:55. > :26:58.modest proposals so we use the veto. Mr Pickles, you know very well that
:26:58. > :27:02.you took your party out of the European People's Party - the
:27:02. > :27:08.centre-right coalition of mainstream European parties. It is
:27:08. > :27:11.what Angela Merkel Leeds, what Nicolas Sarkozy is part of the,
:27:11. > :27:21.Manduel Rosso is part of. The Tories were not there able to
:27:21. > :27:22.
:27:22. > :27:27.influence things. They could have been influencing matters. They were
:27:27. > :27:37.isolated. There is something intrinsically wrong with the
:27:37. > :27:38.
:27:38. > :27:43.Conservatives being in the EPP. has left too isolated. -- left you
:27:43. > :27:47.isolated. We continue to work with our European partners on the single
:27:47. > :27:51.market and European policies. We work very closely with France on
:27:51. > :27:58.foreign policy and on defence policy. Our two nations have never
:27:58. > :28:02.been quite so united in terms of foreign defence policy for
:28:02. > :28:07.generations. Is there a logic that we need the European Union?
:28:07. > :28:12.course not. There is no suggestion of that. Britain is subject to all
:28:12. > :28:18.the things we do not like. The most important thing, so far as the
:28:18. > :28:23.European Union is concerned, is the single market. We want to see that
:28:23. > :28:28.spread out. We are a trading nation. Can we turn from the problem family
:28:28. > :28:34.that is the European Union, to problem families in the UK? How
:28:34. > :28:40.serious a problem is it? It is a very big problem. It is costing the
:28:40. > :28:45.nation �9 billion a year. In an extreme case it can be anything
:28:45. > :28:52.from a quarter of a million or rising. The average is about
:28:52. > :28:58.�75,000. Her per family. It is a very big deal. Quite often it is a
:28:58. > :29:03.generational thing. Parents have never been in work, children have
:29:03. > :29:12.never been in work. I do not like the idea of a sighting of the life
:29:12. > :29:19.chances of people. What you do? writing off. What we will be doing
:29:19. > :29:24.is establishing a unit to co- operate with local authorities
:29:24. > :29:28.surveys people have one person dealing with them. Her we will turn
:29:28. > :29:33.around the lives of the most troubled families in this country.
:29:33. > :29:42.It is a bold claim. It is a bold claim and a bold objective.
:29:42. > :29:48.Something has to be done. How can we measure success? Fairly
:29:48. > :29:52.straightforward, kids into school, people into jobs and a reduction in
:29:52. > :29:57.antisocial behaviour. We have tended to be too complex in the way
:29:57. > :30:04.we deal with these families. That will happen in the lifetime of this
:30:04. > :30:12.Parliament? Absolutely. Absolutely. So, truancy will be history and
:30:12. > :30:16.petty crime will be history. have good co-operation with local
:30:16. > :30:21.authorities. There is a broad political consensus on theirs. We
:30:21. > :30:27.will look to the authorities like Salford, which is Labour lead, it
:30:27. > :30:32.is doing a lot of work in S. We have seen results in particular
:30:32. > :30:37.authorities. -- in this. They want to spread that to authorities over
:30:37. > :30:41.the country. With Council Tax, if it goes up by more than 3.5%, maybe
:30:41. > :30:46.there should be consulted in a referendum about whether they want
:30:46. > :30:50.it. What about the reverse? If the council tax is slashed and they
:30:50. > :30:56.want to cut services massively, should that go to a referendum as
:30:57. > :31:01.well? No. The job is to remove my powers of capping. I did not have
:31:02. > :31:06.any powers to force councils to put up council tax. This is in place of
:31:06. > :31:10.me deciding what to the level should be. The people should decide.
:31:11. > :31:15.What about if the council were to cut council tax? This year, because
:31:15. > :31:22.of the other we have made with the council tax freeze, we will be
:31:23. > :31:25.giving local authorities extra Later in the programme, as the
:31:26. > :31:29.Politics Show takes its bow, we will bring you some highlights of
:31:29. > :31:36.our eight years on air. But first, and for the last time, the Politics
:31:36. > :31:41.Show where you are. Hello and welcome to the Politics
:31:41. > :31:44.Show here in London where later on we will be asking if drastic
:31:44. > :31:49.economic times need equally drastic solutions. We will be hearing from
:31:49. > :31:52.people trying to think the unthinkable about what could help
:31:52. > :31:56.plug the deficit gap. But first, with Christmas
:31:56. > :32:01.approaching, make the most of free evening parking in the West End
:32:01. > :32:05.because it is not around for much longer. From January, Westminster
:32:05. > :32:09.Council is introducing parking charges on Sunday and the evenings.
:32:09. > :32:14.It has led to a chorus of complaints from seemingly everybody
:32:14. > :32:20.except borough residents. If it could cost local firms �800 million
:32:20. > :32:23.in lost business and 5,000 jobs. The battle lines are drawn as the
:32:23. > :32:29.controversy surrounding Westminster council's decision to introduce
:32:29. > :32:33.parking charges on evenings and Sundays escalates. We have become
:32:33. > :32:37.men. It is another way to make money out of us. Now is the time
:32:37. > :32:42.that we should come in and relax and we should not have to worry
:32:42. > :32:46.about parking charges. The area designated stretches from Oxford
:32:46. > :32:52.Street in the north, to Hyde Park in the West and the Strand in the
:32:52. > :32:58.south. Drivers will have to pay �2.40 pap hour from Monday to
:32:58. > :33:00.Thursday. On Fridays and Saturdays it goes up to �4.80 Para. With
:33:01. > :33:04.restricted public transport services running through the night,
:33:04. > :33:10.how will those doing night shifts in the capital manager and what
:33:10. > :33:13.will be the knock-on effect for the night-time economy? He will hit the
:33:13. > :33:20.worker's hard and I cannot compensate their wages. What will
:33:20. > :33:24.happen? I don't know but I can guarantee that our job losses from
:33:24. > :33:28.the 9th, people will not be able to afford to work in the West End.
:33:28. > :33:32.impact of these new parking regulations will be immense. I
:33:32. > :33:37.believe it will cripple Westminster and it will make it into a ghost
:33:37. > :33:42.town. He a report commissioned by worried local businesses has
:33:42. > :33:48.estimated that this new initiative could take �800 million out of the
:33:48. > :33:58.local economy and cost some 5,000 jobs. This week, two senior
:33:58. > :34:10.
:34:10. > :34:16.politicians weighed in with further What remains to be seen is whether
:34:16. > :34:19.Westminster will stick to their guns in the face of what appears to
:34:19. > :34:23.be widespread opposition. Joining me here is the Cabinet men
:34:23. > :34:27.before parking at Westminster Council, Councillor Lee Rowley and
:34:27. > :34:31.the Labour opposition, Paul Dimoldenberg. What will it take to
:34:31. > :34:33.persuade Westminster Council to give up these plans? Everyone
:34:33. > :34:36.appears to be opposed to it. It is certainly proving very
:34:36. > :34:39.controversial but we must not forget that there are a lot of
:34:39. > :34:43.people in favour of it, particularly residents who live
:34:43. > :34:47.close by. Even people who disagree with what we're doing agree there
:34:47. > :34:50.is a problem of congestion in the West End so that is what we are
:34:50. > :34:54.trying to tackle. Where trying to manage a city which lots of people
:34:54. > :34:58.want to use at different times of the dead which is causing these
:34:58. > :35:03.kind of issues to be raised and the solutions to be tried. Paul
:35:03. > :35:08.Dimoldenberg, you have to take your hat off to them for the bravery in
:35:08. > :35:14.the face of criticism? This is about jobs and the economy as much
:35:14. > :35:17.as about parking. A latest study shows that 5,000 jobs could be lost
:35:18. > :35:22.by this. In the depths of the recession, this is the last thing
:35:22. > :35:26.the West End needs. West End stores and businesses are the people who
:35:26. > :35:33.depend on the night-time economy. It is a disaster for the West End
:35:33. > :35:38.and for the broader London economy. It is not good news at all. I think
:35:38. > :35:43.the problem is that Paul has quoted a report. Another person has said
:35:43. > :35:49.that his voodoo economics, lies, damn lies and statistics is the old
:35:49. > :35:53.maxim. What is wrong with the figures? Bake are not based on
:35:53. > :35:57.anything. -- they are not based on anything. They do not have any
:35:57. > :36:00.bearing on any recollection or likelihood of what is likely to
:36:00. > :36:04.happen. We do realise that these things are not popular. We realise
:36:04. > :36:08.they may have an impact and that is why we have said we will only bring
:36:08. > :36:12.these in on an experimental basis to see if they have the effect of
:36:12. > :36:17.reducing congestion, imprison people's quality of life in London
:36:17. > :36:23.and we will see how it goes. and reliable survey you are
:36:23. > :36:29.quoting? He can rubbish the report, the company was done -- report was
:36:29. > :36:33.done by a company which works for 47 of the top FTSE 100 companies so
:36:33. > :36:37.I am confident it was done well. He can rubbish the report but the
:36:37. > :36:41.council has not done one or the impact of what they have called
:36:41. > :36:46.themselves an experiment in the West End. At the depth of recession,
:36:46. > :36:52.next year, 2012, the West End will see unprecedented numbers of people.
:36:52. > :36:55.If it is so obvious, why are they doing it? It is about money. The
:36:55. > :36:59.council has a huge hole in the finances. Over the years, that has
:36:59. > :37:04.been a reduction and parking income which has helped subsidise the
:37:04. > :37:09.council tax. What, Westminster Council, the model for the last 20
:37:09. > :37:13.years? Yes, Westminster has relied on this pot of gold called parking
:37:13. > :37:18.income which has helped subsidise the council tax for residents. That
:37:18. > :37:22.money has been reducing ovaries years because drivers have become
:37:22. > :37:27.more compliant. The result is, the council has no money. It has
:37:27. > :37:32.refused to put up the council tax so it has no room for manoeuvre.
:37:32. > :37:36.That is why the �7 million that the charges will bring in is crucial.
:37:36. > :37:40.Paul is talking nonsense and it is not the first time. He is playing
:37:40. > :37:44.politics with this. It is not about the money, it has never been about
:37:44. > :37:47.the money. It is about traffic congestion. There are several
:37:47. > :37:51.hundred pages of data finding out what is happening in our streets
:37:51. > :37:56.which we have used in coming to this decision to see how we can
:37:56. > :38:01.improve the lives. But the income from parking has been going down?
:38:01. > :38:06.It varies from a year by year basis. I think it was going up this year.
:38:06. > :38:09.Anything you do with parking has a financial impact. So you would say
:38:09. > :38:14.there is absolutely nothing wrong with the finances of Westminster
:38:14. > :38:18.council. We are breaking even this year. The fundamental point, Paul,
:38:18. > :38:22.is what is your answer to the increasing amount of congestion in
:38:22. > :38:25.the West End. If you do not like this, what will you do when you
:38:26. > :38:29.have 11 million cars on the streets since 1990. Parking income will
:38:29. > :38:33.drop again this year by an estimated �2 million, thereby
:38:33. > :38:37.putting more pressure on the council's finances. The issue of
:38:37. > :38:41.congestion, if you talk to people who live in Mayfair and St James's,
:38:41. > :38:46.they say there is not any congestion of a note. Of course,
:38:46. > :38:50.there are some places where there are real problems but they are very
:38:50. > :38:54.small parts of the West End. think the main point from the
:38:54. > :38:59.viewers' point of view, obviously have the responsibility of your
:38:59. > :39:06.residents, but you're also the central London one. You influence a
:39:06. > :39:11.lot of our lives. When so many people are telling you this is an
:39:11. > :39:14.idea you should U-turn on, what will it take for you to do that?
:39:14. > :39:19.did a huge consultation on this already. We recognise there are a
:39:19. > :39:25.lot of people who do not like it. The what would it take? You were
:39:25. > :39:28.saying there is no question you will go ahead? We will implement on
:39:28. > :39:33.the 9th. We believe it is important that people can still get around.
:39:33. > :39:38.The vast majority of people already come by public transport. The vast
:39:38. > :39:42.majority of people will not be effected by the changes. Sunday
:39:42. > :39:46.mornings means the churches will not be affected by the changes.
:39:46. > :39:50.long will you let it run before you decide whether or not it is
:39:50. > :39:56.working? We can make changes very quickly. We can make changes within
:39:56. > :40:00.weeks if necessary. To both of you, thank you very much.
:40:00. > :40:03.During these hard economic times, are we looking at all the possible
:40:03. > :40:08.solutions in the capital? We know there will meet the extra borrowing
:40:08. > :40:13.and cuts longer than we previously thought. Some people think this
:40:13. > :40:17.presents an opportunity to think again about a lot of State position
:40:18. > :40:22.and perhaps send a few sacred cows to slaughter.
:40:22. > :40:27.Last week, the Chancellor announced that come 2017 we are going to have
:40:27. > :40:31.to fill the deficit by an additional �30 billion, roughly
:40:31. > :40:35.equivalent to the cost of the Olympic Games three times over
:40:35. > :40:40.every year. Where in London could we start clawing back that kind of
:40:40. > :40:43.money? Could it be time to think again about the NHS? There are
:40:43. > :40:48.around one million missed GP appointments every year in the
:40:48. > :40:54.capital. By fining them all �10, that could be �10 million in the
:40:54. > :41:00.kitty. If we charged everybody a �10 to see a GP in the first place,
:41:00. > :41:07.you could net �650 million a year in London alone. Of perhaps, we
:41:07. > :41:11.could look at another sacred cow, the drugs laws. According to the
:41:11. > :41:16.campaign group Transform, by taxing cannabis use, we could save the
:41:16. > :41:21.Treasury between 200 and �250 million a year. There is also the
:41:21. > :41:26.transport network. The upgrade to the Underground currently costs us
:41:26. > :41:30.about �1.5 billion a year. We could also think about road-pricing.
:41:30. > :41:34.Charging people for every mile they drive when traffic is bad. Far
:41:34. > :41:40.campaigners, the main aim here is to reduce congestion and help air
:41:40. > :41:43.pollution. In these times, the cash raised could be useful as well.
:41:43. > :41:47.Depending on the scheme, the concessions and the time of day,
:41:47. > :41:50.you might get something like �3 billion a year from a scheme across
:41:50. > :41:56.the whole of London which is in the order of 10 times more than the
:41:56. > :42:00.current revenue from the central London scheme. So, that's 3 billion
:42:00. > :42:05.extra pounds in the coffers. Since we are putting a price on the
:42:06. > :42:11.use of the roads, why not other parts of the public realm? Hyde
:42:11. > :42:16.Park is prime real-estate by anyone's standards. According to
:42:16. > :42:21.the estate agents, Savills, property in the area is worth two
:42:21. > :42:26.Grand a square foot. That is �30 billion. Is it better to have money
:42:26. > :42:30.in the bank or art in the vaults? 90 % of the British Museum's
:42:30. > :42:34.election is not on show. Neither they nor the government know how
:42:34. > :42:38.much it is worth although the figure is so big that they do not
:42:38. > :42:44.bother to ensure it. Me that under current rules that allowed to be
:42:44. > :42:48.sold. I think it is quite right that it is not allowed. This is an
:42:48. > :42:54.incredibly important resource and this is a time when we need all the
:42:54. > :42:57.art we can get. It is easy to see that people actually want art and
:42:57. > :43:02.they want us to have it and hold it and keep it. But perhaps the best
:43:02. > :43:06.way to make money is to go after the money men. Much discussed this
:43:06. > :43:13.week has been the financial transactions tax. If the UK wanted
:43:13. > :43:17.to introduce one just for itself of 0.05 % on every transaction, it is
:43:17. > :43:23.estimated it would bring in �20 billion a year. But there are other
:43:23. > :43:28.ways to use the city's expertise to use the -- to help the public purse.
:43:28. > :43:32.What have we were to use London's world-leading financial skills to
:43:32. > :43:38.invest public money on the nation's behalf. It could pay off part of
:43:38. > :43:41.the national debt without the pain of cuts or tax rises. Other
:43:41. > :43:45.countries have used the revenue from that to create lucrative
:43:45. > :43:50.sovereign wealth funds which have earned them even more money off the
:43:50. > :44:00.back. Could we have done the same with North Sea oil? Starting from
:44:00. > :44:00.
:44:00. > :44:08.the 70s when it oil was first sold in the UK on a commercial level, we
:44:08. > :44:13.would have at least 500 billion pounds to wealth. It is a
:44:13. > :44:17.conservative assumption. Half a trillion pounds is roughly half the
:44:17. > :44:21.national debt but in the short term we do not have any more money to
:44:21. > :44:25.invest. In the meantime, it is the end of free healthcare, concrete
:44:25. > :44:29.over Hyde Park, a run-down Tube network and a tax which some fear
:44:29. > :44:33.would send the most lucrative industry packing. What Chancellor
:44:33. > :44:43.could possibly resist put in a package like that to the
:44:43. > :44:48.
:44:48. > :44:57.Mark Littlewood it is director- general of economic Affairs. As
:44:57. > :45:04.well as Adam Lent. You signed up to all those, did you? Not quite all
:45:04. > :45:09.of them. Apart from the bankers tax. You have managed to think much more
:45:09. > :45:13.imaginatively and out of the box than George Osborne has managed to.
:45:13. > :45:18.It is like the Government has tried to get finances under some
:45:18. > :45:24.semblance of control. Still adding to the national debt but gradually
:45:24. > :45:29.wearing that dam, rather than doing what they -- what they promised ban
:45:29. > :45:35.was a Comprehensive Spending Review. Should we be doing this at all?
:45:35. > :45:41.What should be palatable? Let's start with GPs and charging for
:45:41. > :45:45.missed appointments. The Government, unfortunately, has ring-fenced the
:45:45. > :45:51.National Health Service. We have identified if you brought in
:45:51. > :45:56.radical reform you could cut spending by 44 billion a year. The
:45:56. > :46:03.NHS is a sacred cow. If it does not need to be slaughtered, it needs to
:46:04. > :46:08.be tackled substantially. We need to look at assets. To we really
:46:08. > :46:16.need vast amounts of Art Collections buried in the basements
:46:17. > :46:20.of museums? Is there a political opportunity to approach state
:46:20. > :46:26.provision and what we are not charging for in a different ball
:46:26. > :46:33.greater way? Absolutely there is. It is a chance to think quite hard
:46:33. > :46:36.about welfare, pensions and health care. They are the three really big
:46:36. > :46:42.areas of spent by government. I would disagree quite strongly with
:46:42. > :46:46.the notion that the Government is only skimming across the surface.
:46:46. > :46:52.The Institute for Fiscal Studies said the level of cuts now being
:46:52. > :46:56.brought in is unprecedented in British history. This is extreme
:46:56. > :47:01.fiscal consolidation going on. good example is the NHS because it
:47:01. > :47:04.is so sacred to voters. All the parties kind of will agree
:47:04. > :47:09.privately that you will make slightly distorted decisions
:47:09. > :47:15.because of its popularity. T think GP should charge? Are there other
:47:15. > :47:18.areas we should rationalise? -- do you think? We should look at Co
:47:18. > :47:22.payment whereby the user of the service and the Government shares
:47:22. > :47:27.the cost was something like the National Health Service. That is
:47:27. > :47:32.not just because of the deficit. The demands for the National house-
:47:32. > :47:35.owners are rising extraordinarily over the next 10, 20 years. --
:47:35. > :47:40.National Health Service. We need to find ways of doing this that
:47:40. > :47:44.protects people who are least able to afford those sorts of extra
:47:44. > :47:48.charges that might come in. Why, when we were talking about in
:47:48. > :47:53.London, the congestion charge, we have seen similar but not exactly
:47:53. > :47:58.the same schemes in the country, why are we not talking more about
:47:58. > :48:02.road pricing? We should be talking about that. The bit of the film in
:48:02. > :48:07.the package show was more nervous about his, if you start trying to
:48:07. > :48:14.shove up taxes more, I think we have reached the limit. We spend
:48:14. > :48:21.not far off 50% of income in the public sector. B cannot raise that
:48:21. > :48:27.money through taxation. We should be looking at the side of cutting
:48:27. > :48:32.and not raising revenue. It was that kind of radical thinking that
:48:32. > :48:37.we need. I would like to see a much bolder privatisation programme of
:48:37. > :48:42.the roads rather than a bunch of bureaucrats trying to work out
:48:42. > :48:48.whether you should charge a fiver for a tenner. This is the sort of
:48:48. > :48:52.area we should be looking at. It is about raising revenues and
:48:52. > :48:59.challenging types of behaviour like carbon emissions, smoking, eating
:48:59. > :49:05.junk food. The sorts of thing - as macabre sort of things that cause
:49:05. > :49:11.problems for the deficit and into the future. -- the sort of things.
:49:12. > :49:15.I would not agree that privatisation is the solution.
:49:15. > :49:24.Privatisation has ramped up costs for the Government. We need to go
:49:24. > :49:30.about it in a pragmatic way. What about things like modernisation
:49:30. > :49:35.work to the tube or upgrades? The perception is, you need to invest
:49:35. > :49:40.because it will benefit the whole country. You could afford to stop
:49:40. > :49:46.doing that. The difficulty is, can you raise prices if you do
:49:46. > :49:50.upgrades? Does it have a rate of return. The solution to the
:49:50. > :49:55.economic hole is not to say, stop spending any money on anything
:49:55. > :50:01.anywhere. We need economic growth. We need to live cattle areas which
:50:01. > :50:06.are potentially wasteful. You highlighted Hyde Park. If
:50:06. > :50:12.concreting over that is a goer, that would be more controversial.
:50:12. > :50:17.40% of space in London is Green Park area. That is extraordinary.
:50:17. > :50:27.It is a metropolis. A do we need every single one of those blades of
:50:27. > :50:31.grass? -- do we need? Would the public accepts that? No. Mark raise
:50:31. > :50:40.the issue of taxes and said, I do not think we can be taxing more
:50:40. > :50:43.than we do. A key example is take - - pension tax relief. We provide
:50:43. > :50:51.pension tax relief for higher-rate tax payers. We're talking about
:50:51. > :50:58.removing benefits, should we not talk about tax relief? I would like
:50:58. > :51:04.to see the system simplified. It is so complicated. The tax rule book
:51:04. > :51:10.is 14,000 pages long. Definitely simplified all of that. Most
:51:10. > :51:17.economists would agree, you cannot squeeze more than about 40% out of
:51:17. > :51:24.the overall economy, however you do it. We are above that level now.
:51:24. > :51:34.Most of it has to be on the side of cuts. I would like it to go below
:51:34. > :51:40.
:51:40. > :51:44.the 40% level. Time is running out. After nine years of bringing you
:51:44. > :51:49.the big political stories and interviews, this is the final ever
:51:49. > :51:54.edition of the Politics Show. Before we say goodbye, we will look
:51:54. > :52:00.back over our time together. Hello and welcome for the first time to
:52:00. > :52:10.the Politics Show. With me now to discuss Iraq is Labour Party
:52:10. > :52:21.
:52:21. > :52:25.chairman, John Reid, the first We have not given unqualified
:52:26. > :52:31.support to the Government. We have been critical of the Government
:52:31. > :52:36.where we believe they have not made the case. We want the weapons
:52:36. > :52:39.inspectorate to complete their task. It is possible for the crisis to
:52:39. > :52:43.have a peaceful resolution. welcome to the Politics Show in the
:52:43. > :52:53.week that war was launched on the rack. Some things are going to plan,
:52:53. > :52:55.
:52:55. > :53:04.in some cases ahead of expectations. -- on Iraq. That is really amazing.
:53:04. > :53:14.Hang on! I even felt comfortable like this. I am ready to go, ready
:53:14. > :53:43.
:53:43. > :53:53.Here is the bit the muesli munchers Do not talk politics to me, I have
:53:53. > :54:00.had enough. I am joined by David Cameron. It is difficult to work
:54:00. > :54:05.out what your policies are. There is the pre-manifesto document.
:54:05. > :54:15.you believe you can win the election? Absolutely. Anyone who
:54:15. > :54:22.
:54:22. > :54:28.takes the British electorate for granted is a full. -- fool. Today,
:54:28. > :54:34.something for everyone. Dawn is breaking in a city that never
:54:34. > :54:39.sleeps. I am on Air Force to for an exclusive interview with Jack Straw
:54:39. > :54:44.and Condoleezza Rice. How far are we away from Iraq being stable
:54:44. > :54:51.enough for the US and Britain to pull out its troops? We do not want
:54:51. > :55:01.to talk about timetables. We want to talk about results. Which you
:55:01. > :55:01.
:55:01. > :55:09.give us a tune? I will never again allow anyone ever to make fun of a
:55:09. > :55:14.degree in sports science. This is just a holding position before I
:55:14. > :55:22.get to be a rock and roll star. I do not know what will hold me back,
:55:22. > :55:26.I have the looks, I am a fabulous musician. I have been speaking to
:55:26. > :55:34.the possible future leader of the Conservatives, David Cameron.
:55:34. > :55:43.not want his party to be out of power for 17, 18 years. -- this
:55:43. > :55:48.party. So, at the G8 next year, you will still be Prime Minister?
:55:48. > :55:53.have made it clear I will carry on doing the job. Do you know when
:55:53. > :55:58.you'll go? I am going to get on with the job. There is no point
:55:58. > :56:04.asking me for dates or whatever. the end of John Reid as a Cabinet
:56:04. > :56:14.minister? I intend to stand down from the Cabinet towards the end of
:56:14. > :56:14.
:56:14. > :56:19.June, when Tony goes. I think you will see we are in a position,
:56:19. > :56:23.whether in one capacity or another, to draw on the talents of our
:56:23. > :56:30.society. Why had he issued a briefing document called Calamity
:56:30. > :56:36.Clegg? I have not. Up this came from office on Friday. Do you owe
:56:36. > :56:45.him an apology? If it is the first time I have seen it. It is called
:56:45. > :56:55.Calamity Clegg! There is a sense of excitement, a buzz, as I am
:56:55. > :57:01.discovering in this sports bar. Down at the farm, Oinkbama has been
:57:01. > :57:08.consistently winning. We're at the main base in southern Afghanistan,
:57:08. > :57:14.Camp Bastion. I am the most high profile backbench Member of
:57:14. > :57:19.Parliament in all history - in all history. Google it and see. Google
:57:19. > :57:25.my name and see. From Downing Street, to your street, it is time
:57:25. > :57:32.to judge the Prime Minister of the DUP Gordon Brown, welcome. I am
:57:32. > :57:38.very sorry about what happened. I am sorry for the grief the deaths
:57:38. > :57:43.in Afghanistan have caused people. We want to scrap tuition fees. We
:57:43. > :57:49.cannot scrap them overnight. It will take longer. What are we
:57:49. > :57:54.talking? Just in order of the sort of cuts. Tempting as it is to set
:57:54. > :57:59.heard a budget on this programme, I will be doing that before the
:57:59. > :58:09.election. -- set out. Presumably when you talked to Nick Clegg, you
:58:09. > :58:10.
:58:10. > :58:16.raise the possibility that this is a resignation issue. You meet a lot
:58:16. > :58:24.in politics of politicians who like humanity in general but dislikes
:58:24. > :58:31.them in particular. That is it for our first programme. Thank you very
:58:31. > :58:39.much ball-watching. Thanks for being with us. Goodbye. -- for