:00:43. > :00:46.And in the North West: A first class revolution. We look
:00:46. > :00:49.at life after the post office closure programme.
:00:49. > :00:59.And what is it about politicians and straight answers? We'll be
:00:59. > :00:59.
:00:59. > :40:27.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2368 seconds
:40:27. > :40:31.Hello and welcome to the Politics Show in the North West. This is
:40:31. > :40:37.Levens Hall in Cumbria. It's a beautiful house with stunning
:40:37. > :40:40.topiary gardens. Some parts of the house date back to medieval times.
:40:41. > :40:45.There's a village of the same name just down the road and we're not
:40:45. > :40:49.far from Kendal. Just the sort of place to discuss a first class
:40:49. > :40:59.issue. Coming up, we look at life after the Post Office closure
:40:59. > :41:02.programme. It was the heart of the village. When it went, it just
:41:02. > :41:08.crucified the village. And what is it about politicians
:41:08. > :41:13.and straight answers? Why do they find it so difficult? I did not
:41:13. > :41:21.overrule him. Did you threatened to overrule him? I took advice on what
:41:21. > :41:23.It's two years since the Post Office rolled out the last part of
:41:23. > :41:26.its controversial post office closure programme. Over the six
:41:26. > :41:33.years between 2003 and 2009, 5000 branches closed, many of them in
:41:33. > :41:37.rural areas like this. The Post Office had been making a loss and
:41:37. > :41:47.they needed to act. So what's become of the communities which
:41:47. > :41:48.
:41:48. > :41:51.were affected? Gill Dummigan has This is a tale of the differing
:41:51. > :41:58.fortunes of three sub-Post Offices. Greenodd in Cumbria, Swarthmoor,
:41:58. > :42:07.also in Cumbria, and East Pines in Cleveleys, Lancashire. Greenodd,
:42:07. > :42:12.run by Janet Willis, used to be full-time. We used to have secured
:42:12. > :42:17.his schemes, doors, everything. it's open just three half days a
:42:17. > :42:20.week, the equipment shared between Janet, and another Post Office.
:42:20. > :42:24.think customers have difficulty with it and we still get customers
:42:24. > :42:30.coming in who think we are going to be open and cannot. They cannot be
:42:30. > :42:33.used to it. We are not as busy as we were because you get a lot more
:42:33. > :42:38.people coming into post parcels and things like that. Janet's customers
:42:38. > :42:42.are also less than thrilled with the current arrangements. Well, it
:42:42. > :42:47.is good, but you've got to remember which days it is open, and it
:42:47. > :42:52.sometimes isn't convenient. You have to go to the next village.
:42:52. > :42:57.think it is a shame because this is a lively centre for our communities.
:42:57. > :43:00.Reducing it as it is means inconvenience. It is the
:43:00. > :43:04.Government's doing to put the Post Office on to a commercial basis and
:43:04. > :43:09.they have failed to recognise the network of rural Post Offices is a
:43:09. > :43:12.public service! But they're better off than Dorothy and Jackie in
:43:12. > :43:21.Swarthmore. Their post office was closed altogether in 2008. It's
:43:21. > :43:28.being converted into a couple of houses now. It provided a meeting
:43:28. > :43:33.place, a place to catch up with all the local gossip... Just a general
:43:33. > :43:37.chat place where people could relax. What has life be like since it
:43:37. > :43:42.closed? The Post Office was the heart of the village. When it went,
:43:43. > :43:47.and of course the postmaster's salary went, which supported the
:43:47. > :43:50.shop, it crucified the village. I know that is a strong word, but I
:43:50. > :43:53.feel very strongly about it. Dorothy and Jackie are so concerned
:43:53. > :44:00.about the lack of village amenities, they've set up their own community
:44:00. > :44:06.groups. Elderly people would walk a few yards to the shop, have a
:44:06. > :44:13.natter and walk back. That has been taken away. All they do now is
:44:13. > :44:18.getting into a vehicle. Going, coming back and closing the door.
:44:18. > :44:25.Could this be the fate of the Post Offices? The commission says it has
:44:25. > :44:33.put a halt to closures. There's a pilot scheme running limited Post
:44:33. > :44:37.Office services in the garages, corner shops and other shops. And
:44:37. > :44:41.here's one at the Spar shop in Fiveways in Stockport. You can
:44:41. > :44:46.operated alongside your associated business so that cuts down on
:44:46. > :44:53.staffing costs, and it means we have longer opening hours, and
:44:53. > :45:00.hopefully customers will use the Post Office is full, and we will
:45:00. > :45:04.look to take on the more of these. Meanwhile, in Cleveleys, Anne Palk
:45:04. > :45:07.Smith has taken matters into her own hands. She's added not just a
:45:07. > :45:11.shop, but an online cafe with special courses, and even a time
:45:11. > :45:16.bank, where locals can swap skills. I think Post Offices are in a
:45:16. > :45:21.unique situation. Most people at some point might use the Post
:45:21. > :45:25.Office so it is a good focal point to get people together and
:45:25. > :45:28.disseminate information. Even in a small village like Greenodd, Janet
:45:28. > :45:31.could possibly benefit from the new Post Office Local scheme when it's
:45:31. > :45:40.rolled out countrywide. In Swarthmore, however, it may be too
:45:40. > :45:45.late. The one village shop disappeared with the post office.
:45:45. > :45:54.Everything boils down to money. Isn't it time that people just
:45:54. > :45:59.stopped and thought about people for a change?
:45:59. > :46:09.We've moved into the village and with me is the Lib Dem MP for
:46:09. > :46:12.
:46:12. > :46:16.For Westmorland and Lonsdale, Tim Farron, and Cllr Mark Wilson, who
:46:16. > :46:22.represents Labour on South Lakes District Council. There was a Post
:46:22. > :46:27.Office here, and finding alternative location for the Post
:46:27. > :46:31.Office was difficult and we have three days a week and a reach
:46:31. > :46:37.serviced at this church. This outreach Post Office, it is
:46:37. > :46:42.becoming a familiar sight. Yes. Most people would like a full-time
:46:42. > :46:50.post of has combined with a grocer's or a newsagent especially
:46:50. > :46:56.in a place like this. What is critical is you maintain a post of
:46:56. > :46:58.his presence in rural areas. The 3,000 that closed over the last
:46:58. > :47:06.government and thousands more previously was important and it
:47:06. > :47:09.draws the line now in the closures. We will be investing in them.
:47:09. > :47:15.will come back to meet the investment in a minute, but it was
:47:15. > :47:19.Labour's fault about the closures. I wouldn't go so far. We took some
:47:19. > :47:24.positive views about the future investment. Post Office Counters
:47:24. > :47:29.have been turned into a success story. We need to see how it goes
:47:29. > :47:37.in the future. In what way a success? Of an proffered? Moving
:47:37. > :47:41.towards proffered, I believe. If steps hadn't been taken, even Lord
:47:41. > :47:48.Mandelson said, you've got to work smarter. In the meantime, we've
:47:48. > :47:55.lost 5 thousands -- 5,000 Post Office branches which has a huge
:47:55. > :47:59.impact on communities for. There is a poor back to the past, but, sadly,
:47:59. > :48:03.the money and the cost of running the Post Offices and the people
:48:03. > :48:10.standing around without customers, it cannot go on in the future.
:48:10. > :48:15.you agree with that? In smaller places that lost their Post Offices,
:48:15. > :48:19.they wouldn't say they watch over providing for people. People miss
:48:19. > :48:23.that Post Offices, there is a clear demand for a Post Office in those
:48:23. > :48:27.areas but they were closed because of an arbitrary decision made by
:48:27. > :48:30.the Labour government at the time. All Post Offices struggle for
:48:30. > :48:35.business because governments over the years have taken away services
:48:35. > :48:39.they could have run and operated. What can be done now? What can the
:48:39. > :48:47.coalition to? It is about raising money to make sure the Post Office
:48:47. > :48:51.their work... There is no money. Actually, the network is the only
:48:51. > :48:56.thing that brings in money in the public's -- public service. Royal
:48:56. > :49:01.Mail is getting �2 billion, going into the Post Office network, which
:49:01. > :49:04.will not be privatised. The aim is Post Offices will not close from
:49:04. > :49:08.now on. You cannot legislate biggest business failure from time
:49:09. > :49:12.to time, but we have to make sure the devastation that was wreaked by
:49:12. > :49:16.the last government is not going to be repeated. What do you think
:49:16. > :49:22.about the privatisation of Royal Mail? Will that have an effect on
:49:22. > :49:25.Post Offices? There is a mixture of feeling about that. We do depend on
:49:25. > :49:30.the Royal Mail. Post Office Counters is another issue and
:49:30. > :49:33.people have got lots more options these days. The Post Office is
:49:33. > :49:41.reviewed in communities are part of what the Labour Party were doing in
:49:41. > :49:46.government and now is to see intelligent sustainability. With
:49:46. > :49:49.this closure programme, it seems it has bid again on the rural areas,
:49:50. > :49:57.the areas that need them more than anywhere else because town centres
:49:57. > :50:03.will always have them. I hear what you're saying, but I do know coming
:50:03. > :50:07.from a small town... Financially it wasn't viable? It doesn't matter
:50:07. > :50:12.that an old person or disabled person cannot get to a post of us?
:50:12. > :50:16.That is not what I am arguing for. I am arguing that to pay for those
:50:16. > :50:25.services, everybody had to pay extra for every other service. It
:50:25. > :50:33.is unfortunate but it is a fact of life. Post Offices are going to be
:50:33. > :50:37.unviable if you take away their rights to issue tax licences etc.
:50:37. > :50:40.It made it difficult for Post Offices to survive but the
:50:40. > :50:45.important thing is to raise money and that is what the Royal Mail
:50:45. > :50:53.privatisation is for so we can invest in the Post Offices. So we
:50:53. > :50:57.can compete against T N T, so we are not forced to deliver on the
:50:57. > :51:02.cheap. So, did Labour introduced too much competition into the Post
:51:02. > :51:05.Offices? They've already got a slight advantage when they put
:51:05. > :51:10.their Mail into the male, it goes cheaper than Royal Mail! These are
:51:10. > :51:17.things people cannot understand. We want one system that works well.
:51:17. > :51:19.would agree with that. We will end on that happy note!
:51:19. > :51:22.Now, what is it about politicians and straight answers? Present
:51:22. > :51:28.company excepted, of course. But it is true to say that they can
:51:28. > :51:33.sometimes go to great lengths to avoid answering a question.
:51:33. > :51:36.I have accounted for my decision to dismiss Derek Lewis... Did you
:51:36. > :51:41.threaten to overrule him as much in great detail before the House of
:51:41. > :51:45.Commons. You were not answering the question for. The important aspect
:51:45. > :51:51.of this, which is very clear to bear in mind... I am going to be
:51:51. > :51:57.frightfully rude, but, I'm sorry. It is yes or no. I will give you an
:51:57. > :52:02.answer. Did you threaten to overawe him? I cannot for us that.
:52:02. > :52:11.Would you welcome it was make any MP that wants to do it, it is their
:52:11. > :52:14.decision. Would you welcome it? is going to depend on the Kays.
:52:14. > :52:18.Our Political Editor Arif Ansari made a trip to Westminster to find
:52:18. > :52:22.out more. Politicians may be notorious for not answering
:52:22. > :52:27.questions, but how fair is that, after all, how many of us have
:52:27. > :52:32.avoided answering, what did you do last night? I will be going inside
:52:32. > :52:36.Parliament to discuss this with two North West MPs, both now a deputy
:52:36. > :52:42.speakers of the House of Commons. Some people who know something when
:52:42. > :52:46.it comes to questions and answers. First, Tony Schumacher presents the
:52:46. > :52:51.problem. We live in a simple world where we are asking each other
:52:51. > :52:56.questions and answering them. I can say to the dull, want to go from
:52:56. > :52:59.all? He will go, yes, please. We'll do it, but for some reason
:52:59. > :53:05.politicians cannot answer a question. We ask them, they cannot
:53:05. > :53:13.answer. I wonder what it be like if we lived in a world where everyone
:53:13. > :53:19.answered questions just like a politician. Let's find out. Can I
:53:19. > :53:27.have a bag of nails, pleased as make a good questions. I just want
:53:27. > :53:34.a bag of nails. Under the previous ownership of this shop, nail supply
:53:34. > :53:39.has improved durum year to this point. I just want a bag of nails,
:53:39. > :53:45.please. Look, it's not just as simple as me giving you a bag of
:53:45. > :53:51.nails. I just want a bag of nails, please. I would like to say you can
:53:51. > :54:00.have a bag of nails, but... Don't be a mirror, I understand why
:54:00. > :54:03.politicians cannot answer. -- don't get me wrong. It might be
:54:03. > :54:07.nice if just occasionally they could answer the question with a
:54:07. > :54:10.simple yes or no. People might start to trust them a little bit
:54:10. > :54:17.more. They might start to believe what they were saying. We might
:54:17. > :54:22.start to believe they believe what they are saying. We will never know.
:54:22. > :54:27.Week are in a part of Parliament we rarely get to see. It is because
:54:27. > :54:33.corridor and the North West has got not one but two MPs that a Deputies
:54:33. > :54:40.because and we will go inside and meet them. -- two MPs that Arab
:54:40. > :54:44.deputy speakers and we will go inside and meet them. Hello. I
:54:44. > :54:52.haven't been inside the office for a deputy speaker. Welcome to the
:54:52. > :54:56.coffers. So, Nigel Evans, the Conservative MP for Ribble Valley.
:54:56. > :55:01.It is unusual to have to make deputy speakers from the same
:55:01. > :55:08.region. When you are doing the job, to what extent do you feel part of
:55:08. > :55:14.it is to get ministers to answer MPs' questions? First ball, not the
:55:14. > :55:18.region, but the county! Let's get Lancashire mentioned. It is
:55:18. > :55:22.important ministers respond to questions. We have to oversee the
:55:22. > :55:26.chamber, making sure the chain that is listening but also getting
:55:26. > :55:33.through the questions in the appropriate time. -- the chamber is
:55:33. > :55:37.listing. What I would say it is to make sure the questions are
:55:37. > :55:43.succinct, and the reply as well, in order to get through the questions.
:55:43. > :55:50.We are not responsible for the answers ministers give. Points of
:55:50. > :55:55.order are made from time to time, but the minister's answer questions
:55:55. > :56:00.in their own way. They are not allowed to lie, or even accuse
:56:00. > :56:04.somebody of lying, but sometimes members inadvertently mislead the
:56:04. > :56:09.House, then see responsibility for us is to insure an apology is the
:56:09. > :56:12.them. Speaking more generally, why do you think it is politicians have
:56:12. > :56:18.a reputation for not giving straight answers to straight
:56:18. > :56:23.questions? Why not? Answer that one. You are absolutely right. The
:56:23. > :56:28.perception is that people expect a yes or no Where, may become a
:56:28. > :56:33.politician say, it is not as simple as you saw mauve. They want to give
:56:33. > :56:43.another answer and MPs want to give an answer that is more fulfilling.
:56:43. > :56:49.That obviously is difficult. Sometimes they won't answer the
:56:49. > :56:55.question Atul forced what they want to give a full answer. - Marach the
:56:55. > :57:00.question at all. What they want is to give a full answer. The last
:57:00. > :57:05.thing the minister wants to say it is, yes, this is a scandal. He will
:57:05. > :57:11.say, there are a contributing factors. He will talk about trains
:57:11. > :57:16.and global factors. The public to get somewhat angered politicians
:57:16. > :57:22.now and again because they will not do yes, no staff and not give the
:57:22. > :57:26.answer they want, but ministers are there to give full answers.
:57:26. > :57:31.Robert deputy speakers. Has life changed for you? -- you are both
:57:31. > :57:35.did it is because. Dramatically. We have to be far more non-partisan.
:57:35. > :57:40.People need to have an assurance we are not going to be partisan in the
:57:40. > :57:44.chair. We have to adjudicate on the debates, keep order. If anybody
:57:44. > :57:49.suspects we are going to be political ourselves, we are going
:57:49. > :57:55.to lose the confident of the house. That is difficult for you because
:57:55. > :57:59.you are a combative MP. I think we were both tribal in our ways, but
:57:59. > :58:04.the fact is, having the honour of going into the chair to adjudicate
:58:04. > :58:13.on debates is vitally important, too. Was it a difficult change for
:58:13. > :58:22.you? What I would say is I was lucky. I get the budget, the big
:58:22. > :58:26.event of the years. I am lucky I get it. It is good for Chorley. The
:58:26. > :58:30.honour on the main stage, but it comes along, who would have thought
:58:30. > :58:35.that Lancashire accent would be in that chair? People stop me in town
:58:35. > :58:44.and say, it's great to see trawling. It is great to hear the Lancashire
:58:44. > :58:48.accent. -- to seek surely. That is what is important to people. I am
:58:48. > :58:54.the deputy speaker, and we have got Nigel and torn to back it up, and
:58:54. > :58:58.we are an effective team. We get special access to ministers as well.
:58:58. > :59:03.If there is an issue we want to raise, we can say to a minister,
:59:03. > :59:09.please come and see us, and they do. Just time to say, order, order,
:59:09. > :59:11.time is up. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker and Mr Deputy
:59:11. > :59:17.Speaker. Tim Farron MP for Westmorland and
:59:17. > :59:23.Lonsdale is still with me. They make a good comedy duo! Years, in
:59:23. > :59:28.the 70s. Why can't politicians give us that ONS are? You have to tell
:59:28. > :59:32.the truth, because you are going to have to be found out at some time.
:59:32. > :59:37.The problem is you go into an interview and there is one thing
:59:38. > :59:41.you don't want to be all over the newspapers the day after. You give
:59:41. > :59:45.a ten-minute interview and the ten- second controversial thing you say
:59:45. > :59:50.is the thing that ends up on the news stands. Politicians have to be
:59:50. > :59:55.careful, but you might as well tell the truth because you are going to
:59:55. > :00:00.get found out. Ed Miliband got himself wrapped up in knots. If he
:00:00. > :00:05.had said something straight... Be yourself. That is the best
:00:05. > :00:11.advice to anybody. You may give an unpopular answer, but you will get
:00:11. > :00:13.away unscathed if you are honest for. Thank you for giving us your
:00:13. > :00:16.straight answers. That's all from us in the North