:00:33. > :00:36.In the north-west: As the region's pupils begin a new
:00:37. > :00:39.school year, we get their teachers' verdict on the new pupil premium.
:00:39. > :00:49.And I'm at the Liberal Democrat conference in Birmingham, asking
:00:49. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :36:44.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2154 seconds
:36:44. > :36:48.whether the national party can Hello, I'm Annabel Tiffin. Welcome
:36:48. > :36:54.to the Politics Show in the north- west. This week it's all about the
:36:54. > :36:56.Lib Dems. Well, our political editor Arif Ansari is in Birmingham
:36:56. > :36:59.at the Liberal Democrat Conference. With me is newly-promoted,
:36:59. > :37:04.Professor Andrew Russell from Manchester University, a seasoned
:37:04. > :37:08.Liberal Democrat observer. There is a buzz here in Birmingham. That
:37:08. > :37:12.excitement and that novelty factor of being in government has somewhat
:37:12. > :37:16.worn off. The Lib Dems are facing to the facts they have problems,
:37:16. > :37:19.not least of course because of those local election results in the
:37:19. > :37:24.north-west region where so many councillors lost their seat. The
:37:24. > :37:29.question here is, how do they recover? Councillor Keith Whitmore
:37:29. > :37:34.is Manchester City Council's longer serving Lib Dem councillor and he
:37:34. > :37:40.says the party needs to sharpen up its message. We have to get that
:37:40. > :37:43.distinct identity across. We have to get back campaigning edge, get
:37:43. > :37:48.back in local communities. And working hard there, getting the
:37:48. > :37:51.message across. That is what we are not doing. We have to have better
:37:51. > :37:54.communication, we have to have our ministers in regular touch with
:37:54. > :37:57.members, saying these are the issues that will be coming up,
:37:58. > :38:02.these are the campaigning points you have to pinpoint from those
:38:02. > :38:08.issues. I have been speaking to party activists to find out how
:38:08. > :38:13.they are feeding at the grass roots. We are with the Liberal Democrats
:38:13. > :38:18.in Rochdale where Cyril Smith used to be MP, the spiritual home of
:38:18. > :38:23.liberalism -- liberalism. I will find out what activists think about
:38:23. > :38:28.coalition politics and being in government. It was difficult for us.
:38:28. > :38:33.We were the subject of a protest vote after 12 months in government,
:38:33. > :38:37.when people didn't know where it was going. Were you surprised by a
:38:38. > :38:40.backlash? Yes. I thought people would realise we had inherited the
:38:40. > :38:45.problem from the last Labour government and it wasn't going to
:38:45. > :38:48.be fixed within 12 months. fears here that it will be just as
:38:48. > :38:55.difficult at the next local elections and there will be further
:38:55. > :39:01.losses? The Whitaker kicking. This time again it will be equally hard.
:39:01. > :39:08.-- we took a kicking. Has the party made mistakes? Yes, there have been
:39:08. > :39:12.mistakes, especially over the tuition fees issue. It looks good,
:39:12. > :39:18.we went against it. Sadly we went against it. Difficult to win trust
:39:18. > :39:21.back. It is hard to get the trust that, yes. I think, we can do it as
:39:21. > :39:27.long as we keep trumpeting the message about what we have brought
:39:27. > :39:34.to government. We have problems in the economy with unemployment and
:39:34. > :39:40.young people. I don't see enough action inputting measures forward
:39:40. > :39:44.to do with those pressing issues. What other successes you feel you
:39:44. > :39:54.have had in government? -- what are the successors. We have done well
:39:54. > :39:58.getting rid of ID cards. The health situation, certainly. We have to
:39:58. > :40:07.remember how bad the proposals could have been had we not been
:40:07. > :40:12.there to Ranger the Conservatives in. -- to rein them in.
:40:13. > :40:17.television debates, Nick was so strong. And came across so well. We
:40:17. > :40:23.seem to have lost him. Every time there is a good policy announcement,
:40:23. > :40:28.out comes David Cameron. When there is a negative, they wheel out Nick
:40:29. > :40:35.Clegg. The councillors are getting their kicking. I spoke to the party
:40:35. > :40:41.president earlier, Tim Farron. I asked him whether he agrees that
:40:41. > :40:44.the party's communications need to improve. I do, to a large degree.
:40:44. > :40:48.If you go to coalition with another party your identity will be blurred
:40:48. > :40:52.because people think, we thought you were against those guys, why
:40:52. > :40:56.are you with them? That his coalition politics. I haven't
:40:56. > :41:04.changed my views a bit but I find myself in coalition with people I
:41:04. > :41:10.have fought against all my life. But you have to behave like a
:41:10. > :41:15.grown-up. There is not much you can do about the arithmetic. We have to
:41:15. > :41:19.deal with it. We have to make sure we are distinctive in the coalition.
:41:19. > :41:23.What the members are saying in the north-west and across the country
:41:23. > :41:28.is, is something agree with. We have to be clear about what we are
:41:28. > :41:33.doing, what we are for, why we are different from the tourist, and
:41:33. > :41:43.what the difference film-making -- different from the Tories. If it
:41:43. > :41:45.
:41:45. > :41:51.wasn't for us the banks would be not being reformed. It feels like a
:41:51. > :41:57.simplistic message. The Conservatives are not very nice,
:41:58. > :42:02.but the week Lib Dems can sort them out. But is very kind. That is what
:42:02. > :42:06.you are saying. We are in an awful situation. Last year we had the
:42:06. > :42:09.choice between the catastrophic and a horrible and we chose the
:42:09. > :42:14.horrible because otherwise the economy would have been in a mess
:42:14. > :42:19.and we would have have later -- worse levels of unemployment.
:42:19. > :42:24.you think the Conservative Party is horrible? No, I think of the
:42:24. > :42:28.decisions are horrible but the cuts would be awful without the cuts. --
:42:28. > :42:35.the situation would be awful without the cuts. People will not
:42:35. > :42:39.listen to negative messages. Most people by, yes, we are in a whole
:42:39. > :42:43.and we have to get out. But what difference Surrey making to getting
:42:43. > :42:46.out of it as quick as possible and making sure it is done fairly?
:42:46. > :42:51.Those who are wealthy pay the most and those who are likely to
:42:52. > :42:56.struggle at the bottom are the ones we help the most. That is what the
:42:56. > :43:02.Lib Dems are doing. Is the message getting through? You had that
:43:02. > :43:06.position on tuition fees. You went against it. Not you personally, but
:43:06. > :43:11.the party. You have been delivering cuts would have heard people. And
:43:11. > :43:17.people do not like it. That is the difficulty. Whoever was in power,
:43:17. > :43:22.we have to make decisions like that. And they will Blaine the party in
:43:22. > :43:27.power. -- blame. Lots of Conservatives like the ideas of
:43:27. > :43:35.cuts and Lib Dems do not, maybe, without being too simplistic. But
:43:35. > :43:40.we have the situation we have got. Do you regret the cuts to local
:43:40. > :43:46.government? I regret we had to make the cuts. Were they deeper than
:43:46. > :43:50.they needed to be? I don't think so. I wish I could say yes. There were
:43:50. > :43:57.real problem was 14 years ago when Labour deregulated the banks. That
:43:57. > :44:01.was the time to be angry. It left us billions of pounds in the red,
:44:01. > :44:06.leaving whichever party in government looking -- making stinky
:44:07. > :44:10.decisions that hit ordinary people. I actually regret that. I didn't
:44:10. > :44:14.get involved to deal with those things but here I am and I would
:44:14. > :44:24.rather I was doing it, and doing it Furley Foster of clearly lots of
:44:24. > :44:26.
:44:26. > :44:30.-- people do not feel it is fair. People wonder if it will happen
:44:30. > :44:37.again. If you don't respect the threat you will go down because of
:44:37. > :44:43.it. How do you turn it round? making sure we have done the things
:44:43. > :44:52.that we have been doing since May. Stopping the NHS being privatised.
:44:52. > :44:56.Enjoying the poor have got a tax cut and not the rich. Breen and
:44:56. > :45:03.Investment packets to make sure we keep people in work. -- bringing in.
:45:03. > :45:09.Without us, how much worse would things be? Normally you get did
:45:09. > :45:12.least got if you vote Lib Dem. -- you get nothing of what you hoped
:45:12. > :45:22.for. This time we have made a huge difference. We have had to take
:45:22. > :45:22.
:45:22. > :45:27.things we do not like, that his coalition, I am afraid. Tim Farron,
:45:27. > :45:31.who is in the main hall behind me practising his keynote speech. I
:45:31. > :45:35.know that because we were kicked out of there and stopped filming. I
:45:35. > :45:45.guess at the moment I am feeling pretty lucky I am here and able to
:45:45. > :45:51.
:45:51. > :45:56.Tim Farron being open, saying the Lib Dems had a horrible decision to
:45:56. > :46:03.make it in the catastrophic and a horrible. He was quick to elaborate
:46:03. > :46:08.that he was talking about the cuts. I think that out lies the essential
:46:08. > :46:12.problem that they are having to, they are party who are playing by
:46:12. > :46:17.other party's agendas. Either they go along with Labour or
:46:17. > :46:21.Conservative plans. They are trying to react to the agenda set by other
:46:21. > :46:26.parties. We hear from Nick Clegg and Tim Farron they want to make
:46:26. > :46:30.themselves more distinctive. Are the managing? If you look at the
:46:30. > :46:35.coalition agreement, there is a Lib Dem policy in that agreement. The
:46:35. > :46:43.problem is they tend to be lower profile than the big concessions we
:46:43. > :46:48.know about. And the ones that the Dems were punished four. The
:46:49. > :46:54.problem is, how do they find a distinctive voice in coalition when
:46:54. > :46:58.the tenancy is that as the minor party they get the blame and no
:46:58. > :47:01.credit for things going right. said he thought the Lib Dems have
:47:01. > :47:06.made things better. It would have been worse if they were not in
:47:06. > :47:10.coalition. It is a different marketing cell to make. For a party
:47:10. > :47:14.to say, these people are so unreasonable that if it was not for
:47:14. > :47:19.us they would be really horrible. But is a difficult message to get
:47:19. > :47:24.across to the public. People will naturally ask, if your partner's
:47:24. > :47:31.are so horrible, why are you in power with them? That is a really
:47:31. > :47:35.difficult thing to say. Thank you. Well we'll stop it there for a
:47:35. > :47:38.moment - let's have a look now at an initiative the Liberal Democrats
:47:38. > :47:41.did push through during those the co-alition agreements - the Pupil
:47:41. > :47:45.Premium. For every pupil who qualifies for free school meals,
:47:45. > :47:48.the school gets an extra �430 a year. The idea is to give a boost
:47:48. > :47:52.to schools in poorer areas. But how effective has it been? Elaine
:47:52. > :47:55.Dunkley has been to Burnley to find out.
:47:55. > :47:58.This is St Leonards Church of England primary school. Outstanding
:47:58. > :48:01.in its Ofsted report despite having a high number of pupils from
:48:01. > :48:04.disadvantaged backgrounds. This is just the sort of school the Liberal
:48:04. > :48:08.Democrates had in mind when introducing the pupil premium. The
:48:08. > :48:13.party is hailing it as a success, but head teacher Mrs Bradley says
:48:13. > :48:18.we must try harder. To be honest, I have not seen a difference. It
:48:18. > :48:28.hasn't been noticeable. We have had cuts in our budget. Particularly
:48:28. > :48:32.with the capital funding which has been an 80% cut. We have an old
:48:32. > :48:39.building, constant repairs reading going. We haven't got the funding.
:48:39. > :48:44.And they have been cuts in other areas of the Budget. �430 per pupil
:48:44. > :48:49.really hasn't had that impact that we have noticeably seeing and we
:48:49. > :48:55.cannot say it has made a different to attainment. Balancing school
:48:55. > :48:58.funds can be challenging. Teaching assistants and after school clubs
:48:58. > :49:02.can cost thousands, and not all parents entitled to free school
:49:02. > :49:05.meals claim it, which means the school misses out on funding. The
:49:05. > :49:11.North West has the highest number of pupils eligible for the premium
:49:11. > :49:16.outside of London. Across the region 192,000 people receive
:49:16. > :49:19.funding of �82 million. There is more money on the way. The benefit
:49:19. > :49:24.is that the money is being given to the schools, not to the County
:49:24. > :49:29.Council. The schools can spend it on what they think the young people
:49:29. > :49:33.in their schools need. Extra teachers, 1-1 tuition. Anything
:49:33. > :49:37.they think the young people will need to get them to a level of
:49:37. > :49:41.education that will take them on to college, university or
:49:41. > :49:46.apprenticeships in local companies. The pupil premium was introduced in
:49:46. > :49:51.April. The National Union of Teachers says in real terms funding
:49:51. > :49:56.has been cut. The money isn't extra. We cannot see what it is doing at
:49:56. > :50:06.the moment. As far as we can tell, it is not working, certainly in the
:50:06. > :50:06.
:50:06. > :50:09.way they thought it would do. It is a PR stunt. Ways of closing the gap
:50:09. > :50:12.between rich and poor has divided many but some academics believe
:50:12. > :50:17.bringing together different backgrounds is the answer. One of
:50:17. > :50:25.the more successful strategies has been the twinning of key to success
:50:25. > :50:29.schools, those struggling, with more salubrious setting the schools.
:50:29. > :50:33.Interestingly those schools working together increased attainment
:50:33. > :50:43.levels. There wasn't just a transfer of the advantage to the
:50:43. > :50:44.
:50:44. > :50:47.less advantaged schools, it seemed to work the other way as well.
:50:47. > :50:50.these times of austerity, many teachers are having to think
:50:50. > :50:54.outside the box. At St Leonards they grow food for the children in
:50:54. > :50:59.allotments and use recycled goods as much as possible. With budgets
:50:59. > :51:04.squeezed, it's a steep learning curve. We didn't come into this to
:51:04. > :51:09.be businesses. We are teachers. We are part of a trust. It is very
:51:09. > :51:12.scary on your own. We have to work together. The Liberal Democrats say
:51:12. > :51:18.the pupil premium is adding value but there is concern amongst head
:51:18. > :51:22.teachers that the figures just don't add up.
:51:22. > :51:26.Another issue I suppose the Lib Dems would say they have had
:51:26. > :51:30.success on is the Health and Social Care Bill. Some would say they
:51:30. > :51:38.haven't made enough change has. Everything is tempered with real
:51:38. > :51:45.world development. We heard Tim Barron so they were stopping
:51:45. > :51:48.privatisation. -- Tim Farron. The question is whether it is complete
:51:48. > :51:52.enough for the supporters to feel they have got something concrete.
:51:52. > :51:57.Reacting to other parties' agendas all the time is not giving the Lib
:51:57. > :52:04.Dems much credit. Well, let's go back to Arif in Birmingham to
:52:04. > :52:07.discuss that issue further. I'm here with with Southport MP John
:52:07. > :52:10.Pugh, who's chair of the Backbench Liberal Democrat Committee on
:52:10. > :52:16.health. When you look at the way the health reforms have been
:52:16. > :52:20.watered down, are you happy? I have never been happy with their reforms.
:52:20. > :52:24.That being said the legislation has been improved but it remains work-
:52:24. > :52:27.in-progress. There is plenty of work at the House of Lords to do.
:52:27. > :52:31.It was always accepted the Government would move more
:52:31. > :52:37.amendments in the Lords and the Government do not have the majority
:52:37. > :52:41.in the Lords. What don't you like? Fundamentally unclear is whether a
:52:41. > :52:45.government is driven by ideology on this or sensible pragmatism about
:52:45. > :52:48.what will work best in the Health Service. If we move to a situation
:52:48. > :52:53.where the Government will be a producer of health care rather than
:52:53. > :52:57.a provider of health care, and some readings in tiny to think that,
:52:57. > :53:02.then the legislation will be unsatisfactory. -- some readings
:53:02. > :53:07.incline you to think that. But it is more choice, some say, you can
:53:07. > :53:15.choose where you go for treatment of some I have no difficulty with
:53:15. > :53:19.GPs making sensible decisions. we don't want is a diverse market
:53:19. > :53:23.where what comes out is unpredictable and doesn't look like
:53:23. > :53:30.integrated Kurth. If you look at the Labour government's reforms,
:53:30. > :53:35.Tony Blair was accused of not moving fast enough. But you are
:53:35. > :53:41.putting the brakes on. What Andrew Lansley is doing is continuing what
:53:41. > :53:48.Tony Blair did. But there was quite a bit wrong with that. Thank you
:53:48. > :53:52.for your time. That is it from Birmingham. Back to the studio.
:53:52. > :53:54.Now, North West MEP Chris Davies has been a long term campaigner in
:53:54. > :53:59.favour of the legalisation of cannabis, even once, memorably
:53:59. > :54:04.getting arrested as a protest. Well, he's raising the issue again at
:54:04. > :54:07.this conference. He wants people to be able to buy drugs legally from
:54:07. > :54:13.approved premises, including police stations and Tescos. Well, earlier
:54:13. > :54:17.I spoke to Chris Davies and asked him. I asked if this was really a
:54:17. > :54:20.key issue during these times. drugs trade is one of the most
:54:20. > :54:25.important issues we could deal with. It affects communities across
:54:25. > :54:30.Britain and of course the criminals who are making billions out of the
:54:30. > :54:34.existing legislation and a failure to ensure we are able to deal with
:54:34. > :54:37.it, they go laughing all the way to the bank. It must be dealt with and
:54:37. > :54:43.it is important politicians start dealing with it rationally. They
:54:43. > :54:47.should not be frightened to say the unthinkable and to say what might
:54:47. > :54:53.actually work for. How much support you getting from your party? The
:54:53. > :54:56.Lib Dems did support it. Nick Clegg supported it in 2002 and the
:54:56. > :55:01.official line is much more water down, that they go on the official
:55:01. > :55:05.medical advice. The motion we have today will get carried quite
:55:05. > :55:10.overwhelmingly. It calls for a panel to review the whole drugs
:55:10. > :55:15.industry, if you like, both what we do about decriminalisation of soft
:55:15. > :55:20.drugs, making sure we crack down on the harder ones. It looks at the
:55:20. > :55:26.way we deal with criminals, above all. Or fail to deal with them.
:55:26. > :55:31.is one thing saying decriminalise drugs, but where exactly are you
:55:31. > :55:34.saying people should be able to get them from? If you want to get the
:55:34. > :55:41.illegal drugs, the most addictive illegal drugs out of the hands of
:55:41. > :55:46.the goals, you have to provide a government regulated alternative --
:55:46. > :55:49.of the criminals. It could be from a police station. You have to break
:55:49. > :55:59.the link between drug addiction and the criminals who make money out of
:55:59. > :56:00.
:56:00. > :56:08.it. Thank you very much. That's it for today. We're back next week in