:00:45. > :00:49.20 miles from a police station. That's what is promised under
:00:49. > :00:51.closure plans, but is that good enough if you are in a rural area?
:00:52. > :01:01.Plus, an interview with the new Shadow Secretary of State Vernon
:01:02. > :01:02.
:01:02. > :34:54.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2032 seconds
:34:54. > :34:59.It was a week that started with controversy at with the public
:34:59. > :35:02.sector strike and ended with a confrontation between Unionists and
:35:02. > :35:09.Nationalists at Belfast City Hall. Policing dominated the headlines
:35:09. > :35:14.but for more modern reasons. It was for budgetary pressures. Coats to
:35:14. > :35:18.the number of stations will not have an impact, we were reassured.
:35:18. > :35:23.We do not want been the situation in which older people are afraid to
:35:23. > :35:28.walk in the streets in the 9th time. And the new Labour man fighting our
:35:28. > :35:33.corner in Westminster. He is not pulling punches when it comes to
:35:33. > :35:35.cuts to our funding. Is it not about time that our Secretary of
:35:35. > :35:38.State still looks for Northern Ireland and told the Chancellor to
:35:38. > :35:48.get a proper plan for jobs and growth? We will be joined by Vernon
:35:48. > :35:49.
:35:49. > :35:53.Coaker later in the programme. Personal, professional, protected
:35:53. > :35:57.policing. That is what the PSNI promises in brochures that were
:35:57. > :36:00.delivered to homes across Northern Ireland this week. How will the
:36:00. > :36:10.closure of 34 police stations affect the delivery of community
:36:10. > :36:24.
:36:24. > :36:34.You would not go out at night time. There is not enough policing. It
:36:34. > :36:37.
:36:37. > :36:42.makes you feel a bit more It is early evening, midweek. We
:36:42. > :36:45.are in an area known as the diamond. Close To hear in the early hours of
:36:45. > :36:55.the morning, three men smashed their way into the home of an
:36:55. > :37:00.
:37:00. > :37:04.elderly man. They tied him up, beat him and then fled hours later. It
:37:04. > :37:10.is no surprise that pensioners here tell us they are feeling frightened,
:37:10. > :37:20.vulnerable and isolated. The man attacked by the robbers is well
:37:20. > :37:26.made these pension is. There are victims here as well. When I came
:37:26. > :37:33.home after getting my pension, the House was wrecked. Three weeks
:37:33. > :37:38.after the same thing happened. They took quite a few items. I went away
:37:38. > :37:43.to my daughter's house for Christmas. Whenever I came home,
:37:43. > :37:49.the back windows were all broken. I did not lose anything, but I was
:37:49. > :37:59.very traumatised. I would not stay on my own after that. The police
:37:59. > :38:01.
:38:01. > :38:08.sometimes call in at the senior citizens' #ColourCyan club. People
:38:08. > :38:16.see we want to see one the main streets. They do not one to be in
:38:16. > :38:21.the situation of being afraid to walk up the High Street after 10pm.
:38:21. > :38:31.They feel intimidated by gangs of he and people knocking around. They
:38:31. > :38:32.
:38:32. > :38:37.feel afraid. The police have closed around 60 stations across Northern
:38:37. > :38:42.Ireland in the past 10 years. Between now and 2016, the Chief
:38:42. > :38:46.Constable plans to close another 30 or so and sell off sides. This week,
:38:46. > :38:49.senior officers came to the Policing Board to just five there
:38:49. > :38:53.proposals and to pledge their commitment to community policing.
:38:53. > :38:56.am passionate about neighbourhood policing. We put additional
:38:56. > :39:01.resources into our neighbourhoods to reassure the public that our
:39:02. > :39:05.response times will not be affected by any of the stations. Unionists
:39:05. > :39:14.are uneasy about the planned closures and the debate is likely
:39:14. > :39:18.to spill over into the Assembly. These senior citizens have the
:39:18. > :39:22.chance to lobby ministers during a recent -- recent visit to Stormont.
:39:22. > :39:25.They had a message for the chief constable. It is farcical that you
:39:25. > :39:29.have come up with this idea. If you are saving money by closing
:39:29. > :39:33.stations, they should be investing money and more pleased bodies out
:39:33. > :39:41.on the beats in the streets. need to get rid of police stations
:39:41. > :39:45.that are not needed. It is about efficiency. It is not political. We
:39:45. > :39:51.will have discussions, we will do refuse and consultations. At the
:39:51. > :39:55.end of that, the police board will make a decision. The proposed
:39:55. > :40:01.closures in this part of County Down will leave a large section of
:40:01. > :40:11.the county without a police station. There will be no station between
:40:11. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:25.My memories of the police station go back 15, 16 years, when we had
:40:25. > :40:34.eight full-time offices, are one sergeant and four part-time
:40:34. > :40:38.reservists. This police station was mothballed two years ago. A mobile
:40:38. > :40:43.police station made a handful of visits to the area, but residents
:40:43. > :40:50.say they have not seen it for a long time. Gradually, it was
:40:50. > :40:56.withdrawn, and the reason for that, I have been told, is they only have
:40:56. > :41:03.one mobile police station for the whole of this section which takes
:41:03. > :41:07.in County Down and Castlereagh. Different areas are bidding for it.
:41:07. > :41:14.There are five Modahl police units costing �50,000 each. Despite the
:41:14. > :41:22.proposed closures, they say they have no plans to buy any more.
:41:22. > :41:27.There'd concerns about the perceived lack of police presence.
:41:27. > :41:32.This is the local Second Presbyterian manse in this town
:41:32. > :41:36.which was burned to the ground on Saturday. This is the type of
:41:36. > :41:43.activity we do not want in this district. My belief is that with
:41:43. > :41:47.the collusion or -- the closure of more police stations, we will have
:41:47. > :41:56.more of this type of activity, and it hurts me to say that. I believe
:41:56. > :42:00.that is a fact. With me now from the Policing Board are Jonathan
:42:00. > :42:06.Craig, Trevor Lunn and Conal McDevitt. Sinn Fein say it is not
:42:06. > :42:10.political. Do you think it is? hope it is not political. I hope we
:42:10. > :42:19.can approach this problem in a non- political way. That might be
:42:19. > :42:24.impossible. Give us a flavour of the meeting on Thursday. It was
:42:24. > :42:32.inconclusive, because the board was asked for a lot of information. We
:42:32. > :42:37.have to look at these prospective closures one at a time. I do not
:42:37. > :42:41.think it will be a straight case of unionists wanting to keep them open
:42:41. > :42:50.and Nationalists wanting to keep them closed. I hope it does not
:42:50. > :42:54.develop into a unionist and Nationalist dogfight. I think that
:42:54. > :42:59.good sense might prevail. Is it a sweeping generalisation that
:42:59. > :43:05.Nationalists will be happy to see police stations closing? It is not
:43:05. > :43:14.only a generalisation, it is nonsense. Everyone in this week to
:43:14. > :43:22.-- region is interested in a police service which is more interested in
:43:22. > :43:25.a community that my I'm living in the past. The police need to be
:43:25. > :43:34.present in those communities. If you close police stations, creating
:43:34. > :43:37.huge gaps in County Down, for example, you will give rise to the
:43:37. > :43:43.perception that the police are no longer part of that community. That
:43:43. > :43:48.is not in that realism's interest, nor unionism's, and I were darkly
:43:48. > :43:54.that it is not even in the police's interest. Some people living in
:43:54. > :43:58.cities do not know the name of their local police officers. Why
:43:58. > :44:02.should people in rural areas? Surely it is about response time
:44:02. > :44:08.and the way of getting beastie quickly if you needed. For police
:44:08. > :44:11.in cities should know the name of their police officer. But --
:44:11. > :44:16.especially in highly populated areas, people should feel like they
:44:16. > :44:21.have a personal relationship with their local police officers. In my
:44:21. > :44:27.community, people do know who their local sergeant is an to the three
:44:27. > :44:31.or four Constable's art who patrol the beat. That is the new beginning
:44:31. > :44:36.bet we are all looking for. What is depressing about this debate is two
:44:36. > :44:39.things. The police are forcing us at a time when the district police
:44:39. > :44:45.in partnerships are about to be disbanded and therefore will be
:44:45. > :44:49.unable to conduct the consultation properly and with communities, and
:44:49. > :44:54.the second thing is that it gives rise to the suggestion that we are
:44:54. > :45:04.returning to a security driven agenda. We are moving away from
:45:04. > :45:05.
:45:05. > :45:13.what pattern envisaged -- Patten envisaged. Are you reassured?
:45:13. > :45:18.think there is a level of agreement around this. There was a general
:45:18. > :45:23.consensus among all of the board members, how does this deliver
:45:23. > :45:29.better community policing in a local, rural community? We feel
:45:29. > :45:34.there has been little rural proving put into this policy. There is a
:45:34. > :45:43.genuine fear that this will damage local community policing. And there
:45:43. > :45:47.is a third factor, witches, is this a good use of public finances? A
:45:47. > :45:52.lot of police stations have a lot of money spent on them to bring
:45:52. > :45:59.them up to standards for the police officers. Are we now and then
:45:59. > :46:04.saying that after spending a �430,000 on a police station, for
:46:04. > :46:08.example, is it a good use of public funds to close that two years
:46:09. > :46:15.later? In the bigger picture, we have to save money. The health
:46:15. > :46:21.service, education. And surely many of the stations are only good for a
:46:21. > :46:25.few hours a week anyway? Yes, and there is an issue there. I was at a
:46:25. > :46:29.Christmas dinner for an elderly group yesterday. One of the
:46:29. > :46:33.individuals have found a purse for somebody on the street, and it was
:46:34. > :46:43.given to me, because he went to his local police station to handed into
:46:43. > :46:47.find it closed. He was frustrated and annoyed that he could not
:46:47. > :46:52.access his local station. But is that a big enough reason to keep
:46:52. > :46:56.police stations open when crimes against the elderly, violent crimes,
:46:56. > :46:58.are much more important that we eradicate those as much as we can
:46:59. > :47:02.and have people at on the streets? That is what the police say they
:47:02. > :47:07.will do if they can save money. totally agree. The priorities are
:47:07. > :47:12.to eradicate that sort of crime within our communities. But they
:47:12. > :47:18.will say this. Are we going to eradicate that crime, are we going
:47:18. > :47:22.to convince the local communities to pass information on to their
:47:22. > :47:26.police force and their local police officers? That is where the
:47:26. > :47:31.information stream is coming from now within communities. Local
:47:31. > :47:35.people talk to their local officers. Are we going to increase or
:47:35. > :47:43.decrease that Communication Stream between the police and the local
:47:43. > :47:50.communities by taking the savage cuts across a police stations? I
:47:50. > :47:56.think it is counter-productive. My local station was closed a number
:47:56. > :48:01.of years ago. We were promised a series of interventions, likely --
:48:01. > :48:05.like Noda police stations. That fell apart in a number of months.
:48:05. > :48:10.That community up there now feels very isolated. They do not see
:48:10. > :48:14.their police officers enough. happens, then? How do you square
:48:14. > :48:18.this circle? It is like the health debate, that we all want a police
:48:18. > :48:24.station in our town or village. Will want a hospital at the end of
:48:24. > :48:27.the road. We have to make some tough decisions. Certainly, we have
:48:27. > :48:33.to make tough decisions. The priority must be the most effective
:48:33. > :48:38.method of policing that we can introduce. I take issue slightly
:48:38. > :48:42.with Jonathan. The feedback I get is that a lot of people in rural
:48:42. > :48:50.areas are quite surprised and satisfied with the policing they
:48:50. > :49:00.have had. But between budgetary considerations, geography response
:49:00. > :49:13.
:49:13. > :49:18.times, they seem to be huge gaps. If local stations close on top of
:49:18. > :49:22.slow response times, that is not reassure local people. It comes
:49:22. > :49:27.down to balance and what is possible and achievable. I do not
:49:27. > :49:33.think for one minute that all 34 stations are going to close. This
:49:33. > :49:42.is not a done deal. It has to be agreed by the PSNI, ourselves, the
:49:42. > :49:46.Department of Justice and subject to full public consultation. Many
:49:46. > :49:51.are effectively closed, locked up and abandoned. It is the chief
:49:51. > :49:55.constable's decision on which stations close? Yes. But it is also
:49:55. > :49:59.the chief constable's duty to prove to us in the Policing Board and to
:49:59. > :50:03.everyone else who is accountable, that community policing is that the
:50:03. > :50:09.heart of what he is delivering for this region. When you benchmark be
:50:09. > :50:13.PSNI ed against similar forces in Great Britain, they are
:50:13. > :50:18.underperforming. They're not doing it right. If they are not doing it
:50:18. > :50:21.right now, it begs the question, how will cut in a way more layers
:50:21. > :50:25.of potential contact with the community make it easier for them
:50:25. > :50:30.to do so? With the greatest respect, the analogy with health does not
:50:30. > :50:33.hold true. Policing, withdrawing police stations, even small
:50:33. > :50:38.community stations, refusing to be open-minded the back having
:50:38. > :50:42.different types of police stations rather than of fashion barracks, is
:50:42. > :50:51.actually not equivalent to the process for hospitals. It is
:50:52. > :50:57.equivalent to closing down a GP's surgery. We seem to think that a
:50:57. > :51:00.critical emergency service, the success of which in the context the
:51:00. > :51:05.Lisette being at the heart of every community can be delivered remotely.
:51:05. > :51:12.It does not stack up logically. Ultimately, it will not deliver
:51:12. > :51:16.savings. What is your answer, then? How do we save money? We have
:51:16. > :51:20.decided to set up a working group within the Policing Board to speak
:51:20. > :51:24.to the police force and come up with a more rational way forward
:51:24. > :51:30.with regard to this. The amount of savings that is being generated by
:51:30. > :51:35.closing the stations in the overall savings plan amounts to less than
:51:35. > :51:40.10% of that plan. They are not huge fears that up being saved in the
:51:40. > :51:44.policing budget by closing stations. That brings into question the
:51:44. > :51:50.viability and the rationale behind some of the closures. Not all of
:51:50. > :51:52.them, but some of them. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
:51:52. > :51:56.The Secretary of State described the job of labour's shadow
:51:56. > :51:59.spokesman for Northern Ireland as a difficult and important position.
:52:00. > :52:05.The man who has that role is MP for the Gedling constituency in
:52:06. > :52:08.Nottingham, Vernon Coaker. Let us see him in action.
:52:08. > :52:12.When thousands of public sector workers in Northern Ireland are
:52:12. > :52:17.worried about pensions, with kids to public services, when growth
:52:17. > :52:20.figures are so significantly downgraded its, does the Secretary
:52:20. > :52:24.of State remember when commenting on the budget of March 2011, he
:52:25. > :52:28.said, and I quote, this is a budget for growth across the whole of the
:52:28. > :52:35.United Kingdom in which Northern Ireland will share. Secretary of
:52:35. > :52:39.state, where to go wrong G I am grateful to the honourable member
:52:39. > :52:47.for his question. He knows perfectly well where it went wrong!
:52:47. > :52:54.When his colleagues... JEERING when his colleagues landed us with the
:52:54. > :52:59.biggest deficit in Europe! The complacent and saved from
:52:59. > :53:02.somebody who has no answers. What will face the Secretary of State
:53:02. > :53:10.has in the people of Northern Ireland and their ability to help
:53:10. > :53:15.themselves. If you take �4 billion away and return �142 million, it
:53:15. > :53:20.most definitely does not add it to a fair deal for Northern Ireland.
:53:20. > :53:26.Vernon Coaker joins me now. What gives you the credentials, what
:53:26. > :53:32.qualifications do you have? First of all, I have always had an
:53:32. > :53:37.interest in Northern Ireland. I have worked in policing, security,
:53:37. > :53:42.and in the Home Office. I have worked closely with many of the
:53:42. > :53:52.Westminster MPs. This is the 4th visit I have made to Northern
:53:52. > :53:55.Ireland since I have been appointed. I want to try to give a voice to
:53:55. > :53:59.Northern Ireland in Westminster. Will you take on the role of
:53:59. > :54:06.fighting our corner? Certainly, what I want to do is to try as far
:54:07. > :54:09.as possible to stand up for the people of Northern Ireland. The
:54:09. > :54:13.Assembly and the recesses here still have work to do, but there
:54:13. > :54:16.are some decisions which are made in London which affect people in
:54:16. > :54:19.Northern Ireland and that is the point I was trying to make at
:54:19. > :54:23.Northern Ireland questions this week about jobs and growth and the
:54:23. > :54:27.overall programme that the Government has employed. We should
:54:27. > :54:30.hardly and discus and debate that. You're standing up for Northern
:54:30. > :54:34.Ireland, but some of your party colleagues said that Northern
:54:34. > :54:37.Ireland should not be viewed as a special case. I think there are
:54:37. > :54:42.special circumstances in Northern Ireland. We have seen from the
:54:42. > :54:46.various agreements that they are supposed to be a peace dividend
:54:46. > :54:50.come into Northern Ireland. We can see the impact of the Government's
:54:50. > :54:54.policies. We have got many young people out of work, �4 billion
:54:54. > :54:59.taking away from our spending revenue and capital in Northern
:54:59. > :55:05.Ireland. Those issues need to be raised. I want to see those issues
:55:06. > :55:10.debated and discussed in Parliament. We need to support the work being
:55:10. > :55:13.done by the Northern Ireland Executive to create a better future.
:55:13. > :55:17.Coming to corporation tax, the one thing which a lot of people are
:55:17. > :55:22.very much hoping will happen and ours will be devolved and we can
:55:22. > :55:25.reduce a tear ourselves, howdy then justify that to your own
:55:25. > :55:33.constituents in Nottingham which has its own economic problems?
:55:33. > :55:36.First of all, you have to make his decision -- made a decision about
:55:36. > :55:40.corporation tax in Northern Ireland. We need to look at the pros and
:55:40. > :55:45.cons of that and what will be. Yes, you can devolve the decision to
:55:45. > :55:48.make the corporation tax level here. But what will the consequences
:55:49. > :55:54.before the block grant be? We need to be clear about that. My
:55:54. > :55:59.constituents in Nottingham of facing prospects of joblessness,
:55:59. > :56:05.welfare reform, and many vulnerable people are being affected. That is
:56:05. > :56:09.true in Northern Ireland as well. I want to work alongside Northern
:56:09. > :56:14.Ireland and the Assembly and Executive here to raise issues with
:56:14. > :56:16.the secretary of state and to say that the to his shins he is making
:56:16. > :56:23.supporting the coalition government in Westminster impact adversely on
:56:23. > :56:26.the people of Northern Ireland with respect to the economy. Is the
:56:26. > :56:32.culmination government keeping you in the lead? Were you prefer the
:56:32. > :56:36.Finucane case? The Secretary of State has always said he will keep
:56:36. > :56:43.me informed. I was not aware what was going to happen with respect to
:56:44. > :56:48.the Finucane family. I was appalled at the treatment of the Finucane
:56:48. > :56:54.family, who have clearly been brought to Downing Street believing
:56:54. > :57:00.they would have received something they find acceptable. We have set
:57:00. > :57:06.that that case is part of an agreement which was made at Weston
:57:06. > :57:12.Park, and that agreement between the British and Eilish -- Irish
:57:12. > :57:19.governments should have seen a proper inquiry held. You do not in
:57:19. > :57:29.the review is enough? Know. -- know, there are issues to be debated with
:57:29. > :57:32.
:57:32. > :57:36.respect to how you handle the past. There are five other cases being
:57:36. > :57:41.looked at. With respect to Finucane, that commitment should have been
:57:41. > :57:46.honoured. Traditionally, Labour has been greener in opposition. Where
:57:46. > :57:52.you stand? In terms of being greener, the environment is
:57:52. > :57:56.important, but in terms of working with the Irish government, that is
:57:56. > :58:00.important as well. I certainly intend to visit Dublin very quickly.
:58:01. > :58:03.My job was to support the Irish governments, to support the
:58:03. > :58:11.agreements that it takes with respect to the Northern Ireland
:58:12. > :58:15.Executive and insure that the Good Friday Agreement continues to work
:58:15. > :58:20.towards a better and prosperous future. What has been your
:58:20. > :58:26.aggression from the people you have met so far? Fantastic. I was here