:01:00. > :01:04.Our finance minister was already a eurosceptic - we'll hear what he
:01:04. > :01:07.thinks about the latest crisis in Europe. And green energy - is our
:01:07. > :01:17.executive doing enough to create competition which could lead to
:01:17. > :01:17.
:01:17. > :31:37.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1820 seconds
:31:37. > :31:44.cheaper fuel bills? All in half an Welcome to the Politics Show in
:31:44. > :31:49.Northern Ireland. The body language said it all, but now that we are on
:31:49. > :31:59.the fringes of Europe, up what does that mean? And these ladies are
:31:59. > :32:00.
:32:00. > :32:05.lining up to help resolve the energy crisis. From splendid
:32:05. > :32:09.isolation to the creation of a two- tier Europe. Since Friday the focus
:32:09. > :32:14.has been on the impact of David Cameron's decision on the UK as a
:32:14. > :32:22.whole. Since we are the only part of the UK to border I eurozone
:32:22. > :32:27.country, how will we be affected by the change? The tectonic plates in
:32:27. > :32:35.Europe have shifted decisively. Greater economic and political
:32:35. > :32:40.union, but towards the outer fringes goes the UK. The problem
:32:40. > :32:44.for Northern Ireland is it is situated along the fall line. He
:32:44. > :32:50.rather problems, first, our economic links with the Republic of
:32:50. > :32:54.Ireland. Second, inward investment. Companies that want to be in the
:32:54. > :32:59.heart of Europe will not locate here. Those who want to be at a
:32:59. > :33:04.heart of the UK will not either. What about corporation tax?
:33:04. > :33:08.Northern Ireland once it because the Republic has it. Will the
:33:08. > :33:14.Republic give its corporation tax up to be at the heart of Europe? If
:33:14. > :33:18.it does, does that complicate our desire to get it here? Stuck
:33:18. > :33:22.between two sides pulling in opposite directions, Army hostages
:33:22. > :33:28.to fortune? The earlier I spoke to the Finance Minister Sammy Wilson
:33:28. > :33:32.and asked for his view. I think he took the right stance for the
:33:32. > :33:38.United Kingdom, he is the Prime Minister and that is his prime
:33:38. > :33:46.responsibility. A lot of the anger which is being directed towards him,
:33:46. > :33:50.we have seen this before. We sold his with the John Major government.
:33:50. > :33:52.We were told them we were isolated and we would be on the periphery of
:33:52. > :33:58.Europe and we would be opted out of the movement towards a single
:33:58. > :34:03.currency, actually, it free the economy and we had an unprecedented
:34:03. > :34:07.creative boom, and I think that David Cameron has made the right
:34:07. > :34:17.decision here, why should week tie ourselves to a currency system
:34:17. > :34:17.
:34:18. > :34:25.which is restricting growth? As Jim has said in his lead in, this could
:34:25. > :34:28.have a detrimental impact. Obviously we happen to export to
:34:29. > :34:33.the Republic, the UK economy depends on Europe, if things go
:34:33. > :34:40.badly, or if we are outside their club, could that not have serious
:34:40. > :34:50.consequences? It is one of the reasons why eight local companies
:34:50. > :34:51.
:34:51. > :34:55.have been encouraged to look beyond Europe. They had been decreasing to
:34:55. > :34:59.European countries but increasing to countries outside Europe. There
:34:59. > :35:05.is still growth because they are not tied in the way many European
:35:05. > :35:13.countries are. What will happen in that it -- what will happen to our
:35:13. > :35:18.relationship with the Republic is difficult to know. If Europe
:35:18. > :35:22.insists, and do not forget tax powers are now going to go out of a
:35:22. > :35:26.hand of sovereign governments. If Europe insists that they cannot
:35:26. > :35:31.have a low rate of corporation tax, that might suit us. If they have to
:35:31. > :35:34.put up VAT, that would suit us. Until we see how this works out, it
:35:34. > :35:40.will be difficult to know where are -- and what our business
:35:40. > :35:44.relationship is going to be like. Do we not make a lot of money
:35:44. > :35:52.thanks to the Republic? Should we not be looking in the direction of
:35:52. > :35:57.that? We should be looking at the construction industry, when it fell
:35:57. > :36:03.flat on its base, there was an impact in Northern Ireland. It is
:36:03. > :36:13.one of the reasons I think it has been right, the decision to loot at
:36:13. > :36:17.
:36:17. > :36:21.companies and countries where there is growth. Those are new markets,
:36:21. > :36:28.they have not been established. It is very theoretical that we would
:36:28. > :36:31.even get that, whereas we have established links across Europe.
:36:31. > :36:35.are getting the man firms are moving into those. That does not
:36:35. > :36:41.mean you should turn your back on markets on your doorstep. If things
:36:41. > :36:46.are happening beyond your control, and we cannot have any control as
:36:46. > :36:50.to what happens with the austerity measures in the Republic. If that
:36:50. > :36:55.dampens demand, we have to live with that. One of the reasons we
:36:55. > :37:00.have always said we want to see the economy of the Republic, and I do
:37:00. > :37:06.not take any joy in seeing it going back, because it does has an impact
:37:06. > :37:10.on us. But if there is things we have no control over we need to
:37:10. > :37:16.look at things we can control. you mention corporation tax, big
:37:16. > :37:19.meeting is coming up later this week. You said earlier this week it
:37:19. > :37:26.was 50-50 as to whether we would get the powers to dissolve our Rome
:37:26. > :37:32.corporation tax. The government at Westminster is certainly talking
:37:32. > :37:42.about the devolution of corporation tax. The fact it has taken so long
:37:42. > :37:42.
:37:42. > :37:50.is an indication it is not a hurry. They are looking over their
:37:51. > :37:56.shoulder at Scotland. The Treasury is always reluctant to give away
:37:56. > :38:04.tax raising powers to devolved administrations. I have to say it
:38:04. > :38:11.that when a compelling case has been made to the government at
:38:11. > :38:15.Westminster, they have been helpful. In the last few months, there had
:38:15. > :38:24.been policing, a air passenger duty, flexibility, carrying money over in
:38:24. > :38:27.the Budget, the government showed flexibility for all these. I hope
:38:27. > :38:31.when they listen to the compelling case for the devolution of
:38:31. > :38:35.corporation tax they will do the same. What sort of figure are you
:38:35. > :38:42.looking for? I do not think it would be wise to say what kind of
:38:42. > :38:48.figure we will go into negotiations with. All we have said is we do not
:38:48. > :38:52.-- we understand we have got to pay the price. We want to make sure
:38:52. > :38:56.that price is the correct price, it is reasonable, it does not hamper
:38:56. > :39:01.our ability to do other things in the economy by cutting a massive
:39:01. > :39:05.amount off the plan, and also if the government is keen to help us
:39:05. > :39:10.rebalance the economy, that they will look for ways of trying to
:39:10. > :39:20.alleviate some of the cost of that by for example, allowing us to use
:39:20. > :39:20.
:39:20. > :39:28.some of the extra tax revenues we get from VAT. It would offset some
:39:28. > :39:34.of that. Do you really wanted? course we want it. It is part of
:39:34. > :39:37.our programme for government. We have also said in our programme for
:39:37. > :39:42.government declaration that there has to be a price which is
:39:42. > :39:46.affordable. Looking at the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, what
:39:46. > :39:54.are you going to spend the extra money on? It is for capital
:39:54. > :39:59.projects. Willett the roads, schools? It will be a combination.
:39:59. > :40:04.We have �400 million to reallocate, we have this �140 million over the
:40:04. > :40:08.next three years to reallocate, and we have to look at our budget and
:40:08. > :40:12.decide what kind of capital projects will best help us to grow
:40:12. > :40:16.the economy, which ones will have the biggest impact in terms of
:40:16. > :40:23.immediate employment, which once are deliverable in the time period,
:40:23. > :40:32.pet projects, and those are the kinds of factors we will be looking
:40:32. > :40:39.at. There are reform programmes within education and health, there
:40:39. > :40:46.will be some cost involved in that. If we could use some of this
:40:46. > :40:49.capital money to invest in future. -- in future, we will do that.
:40:49. > :40:59.about the public Cup, a lot of people are concerned about their
:40:59. > :41:00.
:41:00. > :41:03.jobs. -- the public cuts. The first thing I want to say, it disappoints
:41:03. > :41:08.me that time and time again there is emphasis on the number of people
:41:08. > :41:13.that will lose their jobs. We have committed ourselves to insuring
:41:13. > :41:18.their no compulsory redundancies in the public sector. We will use
:41:18. > :41:22.retirement, natural wastage, recruitment freezes, because we
:41:23. > :41:25.what to keep people in jobs, not put them out of jobs. Building
:41:25. > :41:30.confidence is key according to the Finance Minister, but where does
:41:30. > :41:35.the crisis in the eurozone leave businesses here? What about the
:41:35. > :41:40.impact on the economy in the south? I am joined by Feargal McCormick
:41:40. > :41:45.and Tony Foley. Good afternoon, Feargal McCormick, do you feel more
:41:45. > :41:50.or less nervous than there is they? It is not about the uncertainty it
:41:50. > :41:57.creates here, but having said that at least in the eurozone there is
:41:57. > :42:02.some decisiveness. We are not foolish enough to believe that 2012
:42:02. > :42:08.is the decisive year. Do you think we are on the periphery of the
:42:08. > :42:14.periphery? We are on the periphery of the UK, within Europe, it is
:42:14. > :42:21.difficult. We are still in the single market and I believe we have
:42:21. > :42:26.managed in the past two trait to with -- to trade with two different
:42:27. > :42:31.currencies. How is it being digest did in the south? We have the same
:42:31. > :42:40.concerns as the British, we do not want to change her tax rate, we are
:42:40. > :42:44.not too keen on the range given by Europe. With the EU treaties, what
:42:44. > :42:48.people say at the start is not necessarily the way it turns out,
:42:48. > :42:56.so there is a long way to go before we end up with at an actual
:42:56. > :43:03.transactions tax, -- a financial transaction tax. We would argue
:43:03. > :43:06.long and hard against lot of the measures. You might argue it would
:43:06. > :43:10.be better for us if he was still in their arguing the things we would
:43:10. > :43:17.be arguing, but it is a long way between here and what you'll end up
:43:18. > :43:25.with as an agreed treaty change. What do you see as Enda Kenny's
:43:25. > :43:35.bottom line? We would have no problems with one tax if it was
:43:35. > :43:38.
:43:38. > :43:44.applied globally. That proposal was made in the G20 and they shot it
:43:44. > :43:50.down. Financial institutions in Frankfurt will not be too keen to
:43:50. > :43:57.have at tax imposed on them if it is not imposed in Britain. We were
:43:57. > :44:02.a long way away from that. As regards the profit tax, it is a
:44:02. > :44:07.bottom line figure. If it eventually comes out in terms of
:44:07. > :44:12.the deal that we have to adopt German or French corporate tax
:44:12. > :44:15.really quickly, I could see us having to say we cannot accept that
:44:15. > :44:20.and therefore we would not accept that as a condition of staying in
:44:20. > :44:26.the Europe. -- staying in the euro. Hopefully it will not happen
:44:26. > :44:35.because it takes a long time for things to happen. There is at 10 or
:44:35. > :44:43.15 years adjustment period. We would not have conceded the notion
:44:43. > :44:52.of changing our 12.5 % rate. It is not necessarily a case of the South
:44:52. > :44:57.losing out there and asked them winning. -- us winning.
:44:57. > :45:01.necessarily, but from Northern Ireland view, the lower corporation
:45:01. > :45:06.tax is important. Our living standards had been less than the UK,
:45:06. > :45:15.and if we are making a serious effort, lowering corporation tax is
:45:15. > :45:22.one of the key drivers. Is it the silver bullet? Lot of reports have
:45:22. > :45:25.said lots of other factors are at play. Before they were saying our
:45:25. > :45:29.economy was too dependent on the public sector, it has not changed.
:45:29. > :45:32.There is no doubt about it, lower corporation tax is one of the key
:45:32. > :45:41.measures that would drive and export-driven private-sector
:45:41. > :45:50.economy, and we need that in the north. I'd say this deal, is there
:45:50. > :46:00.any danger that there could be -- hope side of this deal. Is there
:46:00. > :46:08.any danger that agriculture could suffer as a result? Events could
:46:08. > :46:17.overtake the fiscal union. The next few months will be crucial. It may
:46:17. > :46:27.be to do with Italy. Do you think it is enough to save the euro?
:46:27. > :46:29.
:46:29. > :46:39.at all. It was very disappointing. What we got was the offer of a
:46:39. > :46:39.
:46:39. > :46:46.small amount of 200 bn. The big thing is the short term measures.
:46:46. > :46:51.The worry I would have is there is very little of definite precise
:46:51. > :46:56.impact in the package that came out on the weekend that would have an
:46:56. > :46:59.immediate impact. In the longer term, everyone agrees there Hasted
:46:59. > :47:09.be integration, we cannot have Government's borrowing willy-nilly
:47:09. > :47:12.
:47:12. > :47:22.and expecting other countries to take up that slack. Do you think
:47:22. > :47:26.there will be an impact on cross- border trade. --?. Absolutely, the
:47:26. > :47:35.South is our most important economy, and in terms of cross-border retail
:47:35. > :47:38.trade it will have an impact. In the short term, there may be a
:47:38. > :47:48.positive in the short term but without doubt we will be in a very
:47:48. > :47:55.
:47:55. > :47:58.dangerous position if the euro At this time of financial
:47:58. > :48:01.uncertainty and soaring international fuel price, you would
:48:01. > :48:07.think that Stormont would be pulling out all the stops to find
:48:07. > :48:11.greener alternatives to oil and gas. There are plenty of policies but
:48:11. > :48:15.are they producing the right results? In a moment we'll speak to
:48:15. > :48:25.the environment minister, Alex Attwood. First, we have been out in
:48:25. > :48:29.the cold looking for new ways to One thing Northern Ireland is not
:48:29. > :48:38.short of his grass and cattle. Put them together and the end result
:48:38. > :48:44.can be quite literally powerful. In this institute, there are around
:48:44. > :48:51.300 cattle, producing 20 tons of slurry between them. It is used to
:48:51. > :49:01.produce biogas. It heeds the institute. Each one of these cows
:49:01. > :49:06.is worth about 80 watts of electricity. -- heats the institute.
:49:06. > :49:13.There is only about five of these in Northern Ireland, but about 70
:49:13. > :49:22.at the planning stage. potential is enormous, if all of
:49:22. > :49:27.the agricultural livestock were put through this, we could have seven %
:49:27. > :49:34.of Northern Ireland's electricity generated. The returns are very
:49:34. > :49:42.good. Farmers need to look at the potential of gaining extra income,
:49:42. > :49:49.but it is the initial investment that is slowing us down. Last year,
:49:49. > :49:55.just off five % of the energy developed -- generated in the UK
:49:55. > :49:59.came from Northern Ireland. Scotland is way ahead, contributing
:49:59. > :50:05.almost 66 % of the UK renewable total. Scotland has the most
:50:05. > :50:15.ambitious targets on electricity. By Twenty20, it wants to generate
:50:15. > :50:17.
:50:17. > :50:22.all of its electricity from renewable sources. Most green
:50:22. > :50:26.energy is produced on sites like this. Northern Ireland has some of
:50:26. > :50:32.the highest when speeds in the world, but the sector has been slow
:50:32. > :50:42.to develop. There are 23 when farms in use, a further 27 had been given
:50:42. > :50:47.
:50:48. > :50:54.Industry bosses say the Executive must take bold moves is it -- if it
:50:55. > :51:04.is serious. That we need to build an interconnection between north
:51:04. > :51:13.and south if we can export the energy. Transmission lines will be
:51:13. > :51:18.necessary. When we look at Scotland, they are so much ahead of us. They
:51:18. > :51:24.are producing more than 10 times the renewable energy than us in
:51:24. > :51:29.Northern Ireland. We have such similar potential, and it will
:51:30. > :51:37.create jobs. While wind farms are growing, and other renewable energy
:51:37. > :51:46.source appears to be on night -- on ice. Ballymena council has been
:51:46. > :51:53.developing a geothermal system. We visited a geothermal plant in
:51:53. > :51:59.England. This runs along here and goes to ackee Exchange, then it
:51:59. > :52:05.goes out to places in Southampton. The experts say Ballymena is a
:52:05. > :52:08.perfect location for geothermal heat. The project cannot go ahead
:52:08. > :52:13.because of conflicting government policies. The depth of the
:52:13. > :52:15.frustration can be seen in this letter from the chief Executive to
:52:16. > :52:20.the Department of Enterprise. In its she reveals that the scheme has
:52:20. > :52:29.had to be suspended because of a delay in the implementation of the
:52:29. > :52:36.incentive scheme. Even if it was introduced, the project could not
:52:36. > :52:46.go ahead, because of an obligation under statute not to impact on the
:52:46. > :52:49.
:52:49. > :52:56.existing or future gas market. She appeals to the Executive not to
:52:56. > :53:03.impede this. If you look at the experience in Great Britain, they
:53:03. > :53:11.are moving away from gas, why would the Northern Ireland Executive be
:53:11. > :53:21.doing the same mistakes? Each party should be able to compete equally
:53:21. > :53:27.with the other. Putting gas as a night -- at an advantage is the
:53:27. > :53:37.wrong decision. The department says the concerns are unfounded and it
:53:37. > :53:39.
:53:39. > :53:46.is committed to extending the natural gas network. It is still
:53:46. > :53:56.unclear whether the obligation to the gas industry would prevent a
:53:56. > :53:59.
:53:59. > :54:06.geothermal projects from setting up. They say it is a perfect case of
:54:06. > :54:09.departments operating in silos. What we see him Scotland is a
:54:09. > :54:14.definition of their evolution project getting this together and
:54:15. > :54:19.delivering. A short time ago I spoke to Alex Attwood and I asked
:54:19. > :54:25.him if the Executive is guilty of a lack of joined-up thinking. I very
:54:25. > :54:30.much agree that the Scottish Government is showing the best
:54:30. > :54:33.authority when it comes to renewable energy. I agree with the
:54:33. > :54:42.Scottish Government when the say it is their biggest economic
:54:42. > :54:46.opportunity, and it is ours as well. Renewable technology must become
:54:46. > :54:52.self-sufficient and we must become energy exporters. That is the
:54:52. > :54:57.challenge for our government. are we so behind? We are beginning
:54:57. > :55:00.to get much better. There has been a gear change in the last six
:55:00. > :55:09.months since I came in to the Department of Energy, we have
:55:09. > :55:16.started setting much more challenging targets. With waists
:55:16. > :55:26.targets -- always targets, we are only in 4th gear. We need to get
:55:26. > :55:29.
:55:29. > :55:37.better. Nobody will deny that. we have our eye off the ball when
:55:37. > :55:42.Scotland was surging ahead? If you interrogate what for example the
:55:42. > :55:47.planning service has been doing, in terms of renewable applications,
:55:47. > :55:55.nearly 95 % of wind farms that potentially could produce 25 % of
:55:55. > :56:02.our energy needs, 95 % of them have been approved. Over 85 % of wind
:56:02. > :56:07.turbines, individual wind farms, are being approved. The planning
:56:07. > :56:15.system in my view is demonstrating very good authority in turning over
:56:15. > :56:20.the planning applications for wind turbines and wind farms. What I
:56:20. > :56:23.have to do, and what that had been doing, is reconfiguring the
:56:23. > :56:31.planning system to ensure that where there are good opportunities
:56:31. > :56:38.for renewable technology we are giving permission. Is there not a
:56:38. > :56:42.bit of a postcode lottery going on? I do not think so, we need to apply
:56:42. > :56:47.best planning practice across Northern Ireland. That is why, as
:56:47. > :56:51.one example, we are rolling out training in the planning service to
:56:51. > :56:55.ensure that wherever you let, if you make an application for a wind
:56:55. > :57:04.turbine, you are treated the same way as anywhere else in the north
:57:04. > :57:09.of Ireland to ensure there is consistency. That is an example of
:57:09. > :57:13.the planning system beginning to measure up as we need to measure up
:57:13. > :57:17.in terms of the single biggest economic opportunity for the North
:57:17. > :57:23.of Ireland and for the people of Ireland. What about this issue in
:57:23. > :57:27.Ballymena, one department working against the other, saying you
:57:27. > :57:37.cannot go into this market because the gas Hasted be given priority?
:57:37. > :57:40.
:57:40. > :57:50.think we need to get that sorted. - - has to be. I think that has to be
:57:50. > :57:53.
:57:53. > :57:59.sorted. It is a problem for Ballymena, a foreign government,