:00:07. > :00:16.This week on the Politics Show: where it does this man stand on the
:00:16. > :00:19.euro crisis? Ed Miliband joins us alive. And on the Politics Show
:00:19. > :00:22.Scotland, The First Minister Alex Salmond, fresh from firing up the
:00:22. > :00:26.party, will a pledge to fight full square for independence in the
:00:26. > :00:32.coming referendum. But will independence light also be on offer
:00:32. > :00:34.to the Scottish voters - and who is going to tell us what it is? The
:00:34. > :00:36.First Minister says only full blown independence will deliver for
:00:36. > :00:46.Scotland and the current alternatives just don't make the
:00:46. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :00:55.grade. Fiscal responsibility and real
:00:55. > :01:00.economic power is a legitimate proposal. We could introduce
:01:00. > :01:10.competitive a business tax and fair taxation. All good and necessary,
:01:10. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :27:28.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1578 seconds
:27:28. > :27:34.He raised huge amounts of money for the NSPCC. An excellent example of
:27:34. > :27:40.corporate responsibility. You said you wanted Cameron in
:27:40. > :27:45.Brussels and not Australia. But the Commonwealth summit, they will
:27:45. > :27:52.expect him to produce �6 billion worth of new business. A chance to
:27:52. > :27:58.engage with India. 53 countries, a modernising agenda. Turning the
:27:58. > :28:07.Commonwealth in to a 21st century organisation. And you just say, up
:28:07. > :28:11.viewers. I definitely did not say that. But
:28:11. > :28:15.when there are crucial decisions be made about jobs and growth in this
:28:15. > :28:21.country the idea that the Prime Minister can be here to squabble
:28:21. > :28:26.with his party on Monday but then has to be -- but then cannot be in
:28:26. > :28:33.Brussels on Wednesday to fight for the country's economic interest is
:28:33. > :28:38.the wrong choice. Can I ask, on the vote in the House
:28:38. > :28:42.of Commons, surely the problem is a back support for a referendum.
:28:42. > :28:46.Surely there is a democratic deficit caused by the Government of
:28:46. > :28:51.which you where a member saying there would be a referendum on the
:28:51. > :29:01.European constitution. Then a win that was jumped by the people of
:29:01. > :29:02.
:29:02. > :29:11.France and Netherlands it came back with a different name. -- when it
:29:11. > :29:18.was junked. I am very clear about this. You do
:29:18. > :29:25.not have to pay to play, as you say. Gordon Brown, at an important
:29:25. > :29:30.summit in 2009, was part of the key decision-making. That is what and
:29:30. > :29:38.responsible Prime Minister should do. Force at Burton's issues onto
:29:38. > :29:48.the agenda. I do not accept your comments on the referendum. --
:29:48. > :29:52.
:29:52. > :29:57.force Bratton's interests. -- Britain's interests. Some of these
:29:57. > :30:03.issues reflect the way Europe has done business.
:30:03. > :30:08.Finally, on Libya. We saw Tony Blair and Gordon Brown embrace
:30:08. > :30:15.Gadaffi. David Cameron has overthrown him. Our congratulations
:30:15. > :30:19.to you? Definitely. That is why I supported
:30:19. > :30:22.him. And I am proud that we supported an intervention which was
:30:22. > :30:32.not an army of occupation but which helped the Libyan people shake
:30:32. > :30:35.
:30:35. > :30:42.Welcome to the politics show in Scotland. Coming up: the First
:30:42. > :30:46.Minister, live from Inverness. We will ask, are there no limits to
:30:46. > :30:51.his referendum options? And a disability campaigners on the
:30:51. > :30:58.streets fighting for welfare reforms. They say they are enforced
:30:58. > :31:03.and to poverty and isolation. First, the news. The SNP finance secretary
:31:03. > :31:08.John Swinney will tell delegates in in a mess that Scotland would
:31:08. > :31:14.become of the world's richest -- six richest country if it took a
:31:14. > :31:20.fair share of North Sea oil. Essential argument will be that our
:31:20. > :31:25.economic prospects are being held back by the union. He will say that
:31:25. > :31:30.if you give Scotland a geographical share of oil revenues it could be
:31:30. > :31:36.six richest nation in the world. The United Kingdom would be 16th.
:31:36. > :31:41.And also on the topic of money the SNP will disclose a legacy of
:31:41. > :31:45.nearly �1 million from the estate of their late poet Edwin Morgan.
:31:45. > :31:52.They intended to spend that primarily on the referendum
:31:52. > :31:58.campaign. The first passenger service -- ferry service sailed out
:31:58. > :32:03.of Harris this morning heading for Uig. Caledonian MacBrayne had been
:32:03. > :32:08.accused of ignoring local people who opposed sailings on the Sabbath.
:32:08. > :32:12.They claim they went ahead with the crossing only after consulting the
:32:12. > :32:18.local community. A memorial will be held this afternoon to commemorate
:32:18. > :32:22.the victims of the Clarkston Toll gas explosion for 30 years ago. A
:32:22. > :32:27.massive amount of gas escaped from beneath the shops and more than 100
:32:27. > :32:34.people were injured. And the weather, the best of the brightness
:32:34. > :32:44.over Orkney and the north coast. Mild and a breezy tonight. Winds
:32:44. > :32:54.
:32:54. > :32:59.reaching a gale force in the north. After the Inverness conference
:32:59. > :33:03.independence is being shouted from the podium by all the key speakers.
:33:03. > :33:12.The First Minister claimed the party will campaign a full square
:33:13. > :33:19.for independence in the referendum. But what is that lurking in the
:33:19. > :33:24.wings which could muddy the waters? A devolution and Max auction there
:33:24. > :33:29.may also be on offer. It is proving popular with the general public
:33:29. > :33:36.according to the polls. Is it an insurance policy for the party or a
:33:36. > :33:43.big mistake? I am joined now by the First Minister. Thank you very much
:33:43. > :33:50.indeed for talking to us. There is a slight delay on the line but we
:33:50. > :33:56.will be able to work that out between us. Well a devolution Max
:33:56. > :34:02.option definitely be offered to the Scottish public in a referendum?
:34:02. > :34:09.What will definitely be on the ballot paper is a yes/no question
:34:09. > :34:14.to independence as spelt out on the White Paper. But I am open to
:34:14. > :34:19.including a second question that on what is called devolution Macs or
:34:19. > :34:23.fiscal autonomy. But opponents of that must come forward and give
:34:23. > :34:30.their detail that we are already providing on independence so that
:34:30. > :34:34.people can judge on that question also. I am in favour of increasing
:34:34. > :34:40.options to the people of Scotland. Limiting choice is something that
:34:40. > :34:45.Westminster politicians do. But from the SNP point of view a yes/no
:34:45. > :34:50.question will definitely be on the agenda and I will campaign on
:34:50. > :34:57.favour. When they you talk about giving the
:34:57. > :35:01.Scots the auctions, and a number of options, when we look at what
:35:01. > :35:07.Nicola Sturgeon said, she said, fell on nationalists, we have an
:35:07. > :35:11.opportunity that many have worked hard for over years. A once in a
:35:11. > :35:16.generation opportunity for independence and it is down to us
:35:16. > :35:24.to grasp it. Some supporters may believe that by offering fiscal
:35:24. > :35:29.autonomy you throw away your best chance at gaining independence.
:35:29. > :35:36.It is in no great surprise. That was the line we took in the last
:35:36. > :35:42.Parliament. No surprise to anybody. I am just sticking to what was said
:35:42. > :35:46.during the election campaign. We received an overwhelming election
:35:46. > :35:50.majority and want to keep faith with the people who gave us it. So
:35:50. > :35:54.we will bring forward the independence referendum in the
:35:54. > :35:59.timescale we said during the election campaign. Nicola Sturgeon
:35:59. > :36:04.was correct to say we are confident about the result. We will have to
:36:04. > :36:09.work hard but that is something the party is good at doing.
:36:09. > :36:13.But my point is that most people in the polls support fiscal autonomy.
:36:13. > :36:19.Allowing that to go forward as a question are lessons are your
:36:19. > :36:26.chances of full-blown independence. Potentially.
:36:26. > :36:32.I do not accept that. For two reasons. First of all, I do not pay
:36:32. > :36:38.attention to opinion polls. But the last two which tested this issue
:36:38. > :36:42.showed independence in the lead. They also show the SNP in an
:36:42. > :36:49.extraordinary lead. And we have been here before in Scottish
:36:49. > :36:54.politics. Their wealth to straight questions in 1997 - do you want a
:36:54. > :37:00.parliament, on a parliament with economic powers? Lot of people said
:37:00. > :37:05.that the second question would not be passed but it was a yes/Yes vote.
:37:05. > :37:12.So why do not believe that this logic of another auction at
:37:12. > :37:17.limiting people's chances of voting for the first holds up to scrutiny.
:37:17. > :37:24.It is up to the people of Scotland to look at the choices before them
:37:24. > :37:29.and vote accordingly. Do you accept that in order to make
:37:29. > :37:34.informed choices the people of Scotland will have to have far more
:37:34. > :37:38.details from all of the parties involved about what the options
:37:38. > :37:44.actually are and their consequences could be?
:37:44. > :37:51.Yes, I do. That is why the process involves the publication of white
:37:51. > :37:55.papers. That explains things in great detail. It is a consultative
:37:56. > :38:02.referendum as it has to be. So we look at the White Paper and Basque
:38:03. > :38:06.a question based on it. Again, as we did in 1997. There is nothing
:38:06. > :38:11.innovative about proceeding in that fashion and the Scottish Parliament
:38:11. > :38:17.is perfectly capable of doing exactly that.
:38:17. > :38:24.Can you, at this stage, answered all the questions? Scotland's share
:38:24. > :38:29.of the national debt is �77 million. You will have to keep bond markets
:38:29. > :38:33.on side in an independent Scotland. Why would they favour a less
:38:33. > :38:39.austere approach to spending than the Westminster government is fit -
:38:39. > :38:43.- producing at the moment? They there are two reasons our
:38:44. > :38:49.fiscal position would be stronger. We have been in a stronger position
:38:49. > :38:53.even within the confines of the UK during the last five years. People
:38:53. > :39:00.in the bond markets will pay attention to your immediate balance
:39:00. > :39:04.when weighing up your indebtedness. And whilst the UK is in debt to one
:39:04. > :39:14.that trillion of pounds - I will say that again, one that trillion
:39:14. > :39:14.
:39:14. > :39:18.pounds - Scotland's share would have to be put up again. So the
:39:18. > :39:24.second thing of the bond markets would look at is what the assets of
:39:24. > :39:28.a country where in comparison with the liabilities. As John Swinney
:39:28. > :39:33.will explain this afternoon there are few other countries in the
:39:33. > :39:38.world which have few -- more assets in terms of oil and gas and other
:39:38. > :39:44.natural resources than Scotland. Our biggest resource is the
:39:44. > :39:49.ingenuity and talent of our people. It will because a substantial and
:39:49. > :39:52.economic success. You are saying that oil revenues
:39:52. > :39:58.would steady nerves in the bond markets and pay for innovative
:39:58. > :40:04.programmes. And you are also spoken about a trust fund for future
:40:04. > :40:10.generations. These are three objectives for won the pot of money.
:40:10. > :40:13.You cannot have a triple spend on this.
:40:13. > :40:16.We end you look at the last five the years and take the relative
:40:17. > :40:23.surplus compared to the United Kingdom, if you had chosen to put
:40:23. > :40:28.that sockless - instead of disappearing down the whole of the
:40:28. > :40:33.London Treasury - if you had created an oil fund as the
:40:33. > :40:37.Norwegians did 15 years ago, it would already be at several million
:40:37. > :40:43.pounds and the interest would be making a substantial contribution
:40:43. > :40:47.to the budget balance. -- several billion pounds. The biggest failure
:40:47. > :40:52.of oil and gas in the United Kingdom in the last four decades
:40:52. > :40:56.has been that the failure to establish an oil fund as the
:40:56. > :41:06.Norwegians dead in such spectacular fashion. From small beginnings that
:41:06. > :41:10.is now worth 300 billion of pounds. But that is my point. You cannot
:41:10. > :41:15.save it and spend it. That point I am making is that if
:41:15. > :41:19.you had done that over the last five years - and this was
:41:19. > :41:24.demonstrated during the election campaign with people showed their
:41:24. > :41:28.satisfaction with the SNP over five years - if we had put that we would
:41:28. > :41:33.have a substantial surplus when compared with the United Kingdom.
:41:33. > :41:39.The interest from the oil fund would be contributing to the budget
:41:39. > :41:44.balance of Scotland. The lesson of Orwell and pension funds in the
:41:44. > :41:52.Norway is you can start from small beginnings. -- oil and pension
:41:52. > :41:57.funds. But from small acorns, mighty oaks grow.
:41:57. > :42:04.There is a sense that whoever owns devolution of Max, because of its
:42:05. > :42:11.popularity, would be on the front foot. Is there any way that the SNP
:42:11. > :42:17.can own independence and own a devolution of Max?
:42:17. > :42:23.I am not interested in ownership of these things. I am interested any
:42:23. > :42:28.illegitimate proposal. Whether it is Henry McLeish, Malcolm Chisholm,
:42:28. > :42:34.a respected Labour MSPs, or the reform Scotland Group, either way,
:42:34. > :42:40.they must produce a proposition which can be put to the people in a
:42:40. > :42:45.yes/no question. But is it an insurance policy for
:42:45. > :42:49.the SNP? People might say that If fiscal autonomy goes through you
:42:49. > :42:56.are still moving, more gradually, in their direction that you want to
:42:56. > :43:01.go. Do you see it that way? No. I am saying that I am not
:43:01. > :43:05.ruling out the options available to people in Scotland but what we said
:43:05. > :43:10.during the election campaign was that we would bring forward the
:43:10. > :43:14.independence referendum. We're going to do that. We said we are
:43:14. > :43:20.open to fiscal autonomy and if that can come forward and a crystallised
:43:20. > :43:24.fashion I am friendly too often people an auction. My only
:43:24. > :43:30.requirement is that people get the opportunity to vote for
:43:30. > :43:36.independence. Apart from that I want to open up options not try to
:43:36. > :43:41.for close them. Say, hypothetically, fiscal
:43:41. > :43:47.autonomy wins the day. You are still and a majority government.
:43:47. > :43:53.How often do we come back to the independence referendum?
:43:53. > :43:58.I have pointed out any number of interviews that in my view the
:43:58. > :44:05.independence referendum is once in a generation. Luckily, I think
:44:05. > :44:10.people will vote Yes and this will be the independence generation.
:44:10. > :44:16.How should you or MPs to vote tomorrow in the EU referendum
:44:16. > :44:21.debate. Presumably you cannot vote against a referendum.
:44:21. > :44:27.The group at Westminster will come to its own mind before the vote.
:44:27. > :44:33.That is how we work in the SNP. But a very strong argument is that to
:44:33. > :44:37.vote for a referendum it must have been in your manifesto. The
:44:37. > :44:42.Scottish Government has legitimacy in putting forward this referendum
:44:42. > :44:47.because we campaigned for it and won an overwhelming majority. The
:44:47. > :44:51.trouble with the euro referendum is the only people who stated they
:44:51. > :44:55.wanted one where the Liberal Democrats. Anybody else put in it
:44:55. > :45:01.for what is doubt Senate on the people without informing them of it
:45:01. > :45:09.in the election last year. That is just opportunistic politics. I was
:45:09. > :45:13.at, incidentally, amused to hear today that there was Sable --
:45:14. > :45:17.sabre-rattling from William head. He said we could not have a
:45:17. > :45:27.referendum in Europe because he wanted to concentrate on the
:45:27. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:37.economy. They are in disarray in To clarify and confirm, the
:45:37. > :45:41.Scottish referendum date - 2014? will be in the second half of the
:45:41. > :45:47.parliamentary term. It is quite true that the second half starts
:45:47. > :45:51.and 2014 but we have not specify I think it was to you yourself that I
:45:51. > :45:56.said in the election campaign we will argue for the referendum in
:45:56. > :46:01.the second half of the parliament. Having promised that to you and the
:46:01. > :46:04.Scottish people, I can hardly go back on that. That is why I hope
:46:04. > :46:06.you would confirm it was 2014 because of that special
:46:06. > :46:11.relationship but we will have to leave that.
:46:11. > :46:13.Thank you. Hundreds of disabled people have been gathering in
:46:13. > :46:15.Edinburgh this weekend to protest against the UK Government's planned
:46:15. > :46:17.reforms to disability benefits. Campaigners say they're terrified
:46:18. > :46:22.that proposed welfare changes and forthcoming local authority cuts
:46:22. > :46:25.will push Scotland's disabled into further poverty, isolation and debt.
:46:25. > :46:35.Similar demonstrations have been taking place elsewhere in the UK.
:46:35. > :46:43.
:46:43. > :46:46.Here's Christine Macleod. People with disabilities and the
:46:46. > :46:51.about proposed welfare reforms. They are fearful that way, more
:46:51. > :46:54.than any other group, will bear the brunt of government spending cuts.
:46:54. > :46:58.They are terrified that money will be cut to the extent they have to
:46:58. > :47:04.make choices between food and heating. Choice is that we do not
:47:04. > :47:08.expect people do have to take in a civilised state. Protesters here
:47:08. > :47:13.say it/is the disability benefits could see a lot of money cut over
:47:13. > :47:16.the next four years. That is before they know what the impact of
:47:16. > :47:22.forthcoming local authority cutbacks will mean for their care
:47:22. > :47:25.charges and services. In particular, many worry that changes to
:47:25. > :47:30.disability living allowance and employment support allowance will
:47:30. > :47:35.hugely dent their income. DLA is to be replaced by personal
:47:35. > :47:41.independence payments. A benefit the Government intends to cut by as
:47:41. > :47:45.much as 20%. 59-year-old Paul McCann from Helensburgh has a
:47:45. > :47:49.learning difficulty and lives in supported accommodation with is
:47:49. > :47:54.severely disabled life. He is afraid he will not qualify for as
:47:54. > :48:03.much money as he did under DLA, forcing him to make tough choices
:48:03. > :48:11.over what he and his wife can afford to eat. I go, this is my
:48:11. > :48:19.shopping list. Eggs, milk, soup. Not a very balanced diet and you
:48:19. > :48:23.cannot live off of cups of tea. year-old David Nicol has cerebral
:48:23. > :48:26.palsy and lives in supported accommodation in Edinburgh. He
:48:26. > :48:36.fears the proposed changes will take away his mobility and the
:48:36. > :48:41.
:48:41. > :48:51.independence that goes with it. They cut the De La so much that it
:48:51. > :48:55.
:48:55. > :49:04.is impossible for me to have a wheelchair or pay for things. --
:49:04. > :49:08.DLA. Fears had been heightened they will lose benefits they are
:49:08. > :49:13.entitled to. The assessment test has been widely criticised for up
:49:13. > :49:19.rejecting people when the appeals process is later proved them wrong.
:49:19. > :49:23.It is wrong that two million people have been at written-off to a life
:49:23. > :49:32.on benefits. That needs to change in people be judged on what they
:49:32. > :49:39.can do rather than what they cannot. More protests against disability
:49:39. > :49:44.cuts. This time not in Scotland, but the Netherlands, where they are
:49:44. > :49:47.cutting care budgets by 50%. Could this be a path more countries are
:49:47. > :49:50.forced to take in times of austerity.
:49:50. > :49:53.In the studio we have Pam Duncan from Inclusion Scotland and Andrew
:49:53. > :50:00.Lowe who is Director of Social Work for Borders Council and also
:50:00. > :50:07.President of the Association of Directors of Social Work. Thank you
:50:07. > :50:13.both. I know you're horse because you're on a demonstration yesterday.
:50:13. > :50:18.When we are looking at this, how significant the you think it is in
:50:18. > :50:21.terms of disabled people's rights? Disabled people tell us at
:50:21. > :50:25.Inclusion Scotland this is the biggest attack they have faced in
:50:25. > :50:29.40 years. They are facing the double whammy of the cuts as they
:50:29. > :50:35.are disproportionately affected. Not just specific cuts to
:50:36. > :50:39.disability benefits, such as the 20% reduction of disability living
:50:39. > :50:48.allowance, but the impact of the Independent living Fund closing its
:50:48. > :50:53.doors. They are also facing huge impact to the cuts in other areas.
:50:53. > :50:58.General welfare reform, the housing benefit, and there really genuinely
:50:58. > :51:02.facing a disproportionate impact on them. When we hear these things and
:51:02. > :51:08.everybody says they have to take a cut in their budgets, what impact
:51:08. > :51:11.does this actually have one real people's lives? Disabled people
:51:11. > :51:17.have been coming together under the banner of the hardest hit because
:51:17. > :51:25.they genuinely are the hardest hit. We don't have the broader shoulders
:51:25. > :51:29.to bear the brunt. 47.5 per cent of disabled people live in poverty and
:51:29. > :51:33.that many disabled people and work have their jobs under threat as a
:51:33. > :51:37.result of redundancies. The majority of those who do work work
:51:37. > :51:42.in the public sector and their jobs under threat. For those who don't
:51:43. > :51:49.work, the majority of disabled people, face cuts in their pocket.
:51:49. > :51:52.They are terrified of the impact of the cuts. Presumably, and an
:51:52. > :51:57.intensely competitive job market it is more and more difficult for
:51:57. > :52:02.disabled people to get work? A lot of the cuts are focused on what
:52:02. > :52:07.people can do rather than what they cannot. That is the language that
:52:07. > :52:10.disabled people have used for a long time. We have spoken about
:52:10. > :52:15.being contributed to society and what we need to get there. The
:52:15. > :52:18.answer is not to pull the rug from under us. I have seen a statement
:52:19. > :52:24.from the Department of Work and Pensions that speaks about how much
:52:24. > :52:30.they spend on disabled people. There are already huge inequalities
:52:30. > :52:35.in terms of poverty and access to housing. That �40 billion simply
:52:35. > :52:42.does not cover the genuine experience that disabled people are
:52:42. > :52:45.having. It is also another message that disabled people cannot
:52:45. > :52:51.contribute to society and that is something we need to start
:52:51. > :52:57.challenging. When we look to the funding, there is a statement
:52:57. > :53:01.amount of money. Do you think it is being used appropriately just now
:53:01. > :53:05.are could there be more grassroots initiatives? This is the obligation
:53:05. > :53:08.of this issue. Very few people doubt we need welfare reform
:53:08. > :53:14.because at the moment that is complicated and not always
:53:14. > :53:18.equitably distributed. That being said, there is a complicated over
:53:18. > :53:24.layer of a need to make savings. Sometimes one is used to disguise
:53:24. > :53:28.the other. If you say to me, is it necessary to make these reforms, I
:53:28. > :53:32.don't think these reforms are necessary and we should not be
:53:32. > :53:39.putting a price on the independence of people with disabilities. It is
:53:39. > :53:47.outrageous. Every local authority is required to promote social
:53:48. > :53:55.welfare. That is our founding statute and what we have to deliver.
:53:55. > :53:59.Clearly, there is a challenge but we have to find a way. We will
:53:59. > :54:04.continue to try to find ways to make sure that we can promote the
:54:04. > :54:09.independence of people. It is quite interesting that if you don't, what
:54:09. > :54:14.we're seeing in the English courts, is people going into court and
:54:14. > :54:17.saying this is not a case of I don't want to do it but I am
:54:17. > :54:23.obliged under statute to do this. Could we see more of this in
:54:23. > :54:30.Scotland? A this is clearly an issue that could become a litigious
:54:30. > :54:33.issues. That would be regrettable. The coalition government in
:54:33. > :54:38.Westminster has got enormous challenge is to meet. There is a
:54:38. > :54:43.need for reform but we have to find a way through that does not throw
:54:43. > :54:49.people back into the 1970s. I was in the House of Lords for the
:54:49. > :54:56.debate on the second reading of the Reform Bill. Ba and S Campbell,
:54:56. > :55:00.another contributor to public life in the UK, was saying it my life is
:55:00. > :55:05.built on stores. If you take them away, it collapses. While
:55:05. > :55:08.understanding the need for reform, we are passionate about the need to
:55:08. > :55:15.retain the place of people and control of their own lives and we
:55:15. > :55:19.have to find ways to do that. that is so intensely political,
:55:19. > :55:23.will you see Michael Moore? We have asked Michael Moore if he would set
:55:23. > :55:26.a meeting up with Mario Mullah and disabled people's organisations and
:55:26. > :55:32.Scotland to talk about the issues so they can hear it from the
:55:32. > :55:37.horse's mouth. So they can have an understanding of the genuine fear
:55:37. > :55:44.disabled people are experiencing. I mentioned there is one woman
:55:44. > :55:48.yesterday so terrified that the cuts being made, as well as the
:55:48. > :55:55.rise in charges over community care, that she did not want to take her
:55:55. > :56:01.dog with her to the rally in case someone judged her for it. That to
:56:01. > :56:04.me is a measure of where we are in society. We have asked Mario Mullah
:56:04. > :56:09.and Michael Moore to come to Scotland to talk to disabled people
:56:09. > :56:13.but that has not yet come to fruition. We would invite them to
:56:13. > :56:16.come to Scotland and talk to disabled people about these issues.
:56:16. > :56:26.We have to lead that there as we are out of time but we will come
:56:26. > :56:30.
:56:30. > :56:37.back to it. It set it says here The lovely
:56:37. > :56:41.Angus Macleod from the Times has been up in Inverness. You are here
:56:41. > :56:47.because of your expertise in things political. What you think about
:56:47. > :56:52.devolution Max being on a referendum paper? Good for the SNP?
:56:52. > :56:56.I think what Alex Salmond is trying to do here is. The way for the
:56:56. > :57:00.opposition parties. He obviously wants the opposition parties to
:57:00. > :57:06.embrace some concept of evolution MACS in order to get himself
:57:06. > :57:11.political cover with his own party, to put it on the referendum.
:57:11. > :57:15.Whether end of the opposition parties Gaspar embrace that
:57:16. > :57:20.opportunity is a moot point. One of the problems of evolution Max is no
:57:20. > :57:27.one quite knows what it is. There are several questions bouncing
:57:27. > :57:32.around stretching back to the steel commission of 10 or 11 years ago. I
:57:32. > :57:37.think he probably wants a two option a referendum. The difficulty
:57:38. > :57:44.Alex Salmond may have is, I was interested in his parallels with
:57:44. > :57:48.1997, when the death Aleutian referendum that year. The parallel
:57:48. > :57:53.is not quite right. The first question there was about the
:57:53. > :57:58.principle of setting up a Scottish Parliament. The second was what
:57:58. > :58:04.else do you want as well as the parliament? This referendum, he
:58:04. > :58:08.seems to be going towards two alternatives. Not directly opposed
:58:08. > :58:14.to each other but certainly two alternatives for voters to choose
:58:14. > :58:20.between. We are almost out of time, but wherever it goes, we have to be
:58:20. > :58:25.clear about what the options are. Absolutely, but that is the
:58:25. > :58:32.opportunity for the opposition parties. They might then be on the
:58:32. > :58:41.right side of the argument in terms of evolution Max. The SNP have to
:58:41. > :58:44.tell us what evolution Max's. only that, but people like reform
:58:44. > :58:49.Scotland and this deal Commission have reduced their own models. It