0:01:01 > 0:01:09The business leader warning a two- speed Europe could affect funding
0:01:09 > 0:01:19in the region. And controversial cause to build hundred more wins to
0:01:19 > 0:01:19
0:01:19 > 0:31:28Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1809 seconds
0:31:28 > 0:31:33Irvine is here in the South West. - Hello and welcome to the Baltic
0:31:33 > 0:31:39show in the South West. Warnings of future funding for this region
0:31:39 > 0:31:48which could be in jeopardy, a direct consequence of the refusal
0:31:48 > 0:31:54to a new European treaty to save the euro. Tim Jones, can you just
0:31:54 > 0:31:58explain your concerns? The results of the Vito clearly are still being
0:31:58 > 0:32:02unravelled at the moment but the concern we have got is that we have
0:32:02 > 0:32:10invested very heavily over the European programmes and are relying
0:32:10 > 0:32:12very heavily on future European programmes from 2014 onwards.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16Another transitional programme which could benefit significantly
0:32:16 > 0:32:22Devon and Cornwall, similar amounts of money to which we have already
0:32:22 > 0:32:28had. Key components to regenerating the economy. If this spat with
0:32:28 > 0:32:33Europe is terminal, will this money still be available to us? This is
0:32:33 > 0:32:39to be answered quickly. Is it relationship to mood music rather
0:32:39 > 0:32:44than any legal problem? It is they relationships with dramas
0:32:44 > 0:32:49concerning at the moment, how the relationship with Europe will pan
0:32:49 > 0:32:53out from here. What the budgetary arrangements will be. We need to
0:32:53 > 0:32:58know that some of the damage we need to think about his have we
0:32:58 > 0:33:02still got a relationship with Europe for succession programmes?
0:33:02 > 0:33:07Can we still be planning for an additional amount of money to come
0:33:07 > 0:33:13through? A vital to the regeneration of the local economy
0:33:13 > 0:33:18is. We have had Objective One, objective two, it has been said we
0:33:18 > 0:33:23will never get anything like this again but what can we do?
0:33:23 > 0:33:28criteria we have been looking at, part of the transitional funding
0:33:28 > 0:33:32package has indicated that we would qualify, as Devon and Cornwall to
0:33:32 > 0:33:37fit the criteria and potentially similar amounts of money that
0:33:37 > 0:33:42Cornwall has had for the convergence programme, �500 million,
0:33:42 > 0:33:46Devon and Bristol have had about �100 million. We have expectations
0:33:46 > 0:33:50that similar amounts of money could come through but now we must revise
0:33:50 > 0:33:55those estimates. What should David Cameron have done? He said he
0:33:55 > 0:34:01needed to protect the City of London. There is a big picture here,
0:34:01 > 0:34:05we need to protect our own patch. We always feel we get short-changed
0:34:05 > 0:34:12by a national policy. In this case we need to be alert to the fact
0:34:12 > 0:34:15this could be a real problem. Jones, thank you. One of the most
0:34:15 > 0:34:20controversial if not the most controversial forms of alternative
0:34:20 > 0:34:23energy could be on the brink of expansion. In the car than planned
0:34:23 > 0:34:29the government aims to produce at least 30 per cent from renewable
0:34:29 > 0:34:36sources by 2020. While the wind Energy Group says the number of
0:34:36 > 0:34:41turbans and the South West alone could travel in this period. Cornel
0:34:41 > 0:34:46saw the first wind farm 20 years ago and Chris Huhne was there this
0:34:46 > 0:34:51bring. It is one of a string of wind farms across Cornwall, but
0:34:51 > 0:34:58they continue to divide opinion. Elsewhere in the region plans for a
0:34:58 > 0:35:08single turn a blind generate as much opposition as electricity. --
0:35:08 > 0:35:10
0:35:10 > 0:35:15Winter pine split public opinion, but if the government gets its way
0:35:15 > 0:35:25it seems they are here to stay. seems the perfect playground for
0:35:25 > 0:35:25
0:35:25 > 0:35:30wind. I would be a complete buffoon to disagree with it, we need to
0:35:30 > 0:35:37save the planet. For our children and future generations. You think
0:35:37 > 0:35:40wind is not the answer? They are unreliable and expensive. It will
0:35:41 > 0:35:48prove to be the biggest folly that this generation has had to stump up
0:35:48 > 0:35:52money for. Despite opposition this wind farm is about to get bigger,
0:35:52 > 0:35:58Scottish Power says far from being inefficient, the new double-height
0:35:58 > 0:36:08her Bines could create electricity for 11,500 homes per year. Dashed
0:36:08 > 0:36:12Looking for an 80 per cent emissions Cup by 2050. On a very
0:36:12 > 0:36:16windy day like this the arguments for wind energy might seem obvious,
0:36:16 > 0:36:24the government wants to create thousands more, the question is
0:36:24 > 0:36:31being asked where should they go? Of the South West 11 operational
0:36:31 > 0:36:35wind farms, nine are in Cornwall, around 100 turbines making up just
0:36:35 > 0:36:40a fraction of the entire winter capacity. The council was working
0:36:40 > 0:36:45on a plan to help development, but with only a handful more in the
0:36:45 > 0:36:50pipeline, is there scope for the county to do more? To reduce the
0:36:50 > 0:36:55need of for fossil fuels. Yes, according to the man responsible
0:36:55 > 0:37:01for greener policies. I don't think we will see thousands more turbines,
0:37:01 > 0:37:07but more. We need to protect our landscape, we need to protect the
0:37:07 > 0:37:11reasons why people love Cornwall. Why people live here and visit here.
0:37:11 > 0:37:16But we need a balance, or for energy cost and demand. We need to
0:37:16 > 0:37:21make sure we can produce energy in Cornwall to meet our own demands.
0:37:21 > 0:37:27Industry experts are welcoming the Government's commitments to onshore
0:37:27 > 0:37:31wind as part of a mix. It says it is vital that some cars and homes
0:37:31 > 0:37:38are run on electricity this way, and claims more turbines are
0:37:38 > 0:37:43inevitable. In the South West there are 105 onshore turbines at the
0:37:43 > 0:37:47moment, it could be that we see a couple of hundred more in the next
0:37:47 > 0:37:51few years. The Government's commitment to onshore wind is
0:37:51 > 0:37:58perfectly understandable, within the energy mix we need something
0:37:58 > 0:38:03over the next 10 years which will replace all of the All -- old coal
0:38:03 > 0:38:11powered stations. Onshore wind is the cheapest renewable commodity to
0:38:11 > 0:38:15fill the gap. Recently a graded, this site in north Cornwall became
0:38:15 > 0:38:20the first ever commercial wind farm in the UK back in 1991. The result
0:38:20 > 0:38:25of local opposition to a nuclear power station near by. The company
0:38:25 > 0:38:29running it now thinks it must involve smaller sites in the future.
0:38:29 > 0:38:34Relatively small compared to many other sites, especially up in
0:38:34 > 0:38:37Scotland. That is the future, that is developers much more scope for
0:38:37 > 0:38:42engaging with the community and making sure they benefit from sites
0:38:42 > 0:38:46like this. Others agree that community involvement will be key
0:38:46 > 0:38:50and the governor needs to do more to promote this. The penny is now
0:38:50 > 0:38:56dropping, utilities don't have the finances to see these developments
0:38:56 > 0:39:02through. The retail financial sector, i e, Joe Public, will be
0:39:02 > 0:39:05part of financing these schemes. That means involvement locally and
0:39:05 > 0:39:10people seem renewable energy projects as a place to see their
0:39:10 > 0:39:13investments, rather than a building society. With critics saying that
0:39:13 > 0:39:20low carbon wind can only realistically compete with fossil
0:39:20 > 0:39:23fuels if heavily subsidised by others, and our local people are
0:39:23 > 0:39:30upset by the effect on the landscape, the project could still
0:39:30 > 0:39:36be blown off course. The sustainable energy consultants
0:39:36 > 0:39:39for the South West is with me, and from Cambridge, I am joined by
0:39:39 > 0:39:44Martin little more from the scientific alliance. We heard in
0:39:44 > 0:39:48that film, the projection of up to 300 new Winter finds in the South
0:39:48 > 0:39:58West alone, presumably you view that as a bit of a nightmarish
0:39:58 > 0:39:59
0:39:59 > 0:40:02If we want energy security, I think wind is not the way. Although it
0:40:02 > 0:40:07can generate a significant amount of power, we don't know whether it
0:40:08 > 0:40:11will happen. Not generating power when it is wanted. Look at Scotland
0:40:11 > 0:40:15and the last couple of days, none of the large wind farms will have
0:40:15 > 0:40:20been generating any power because the wind was too strong for them to
0:40:20 > 0:40:25operate. Equally when you get the typical calm and cold spell in
0:40:25 > 0:40:31winter when we need most power, wind farms are not generating. They
0:40:31 > 0:40:38need fossil fuel back up on nuclear fuel back up. Would you agree with
0:40:38 > 0:40:48that projection of up to 300 more onshore to her bones? I think it
0:40:48 > 0:40:52
0:40:52 > 0:40:57was 300 in total, we have 105 at We didn't analysis three or four
0:40:57 > 0:41:02years ago, coming up to 2020, we came up with the number of 300,
0:41:02 > 0:41:07possibly up to 400. The limitations were about the number of site
0:41:07 > 0:41:14suitable and the difficulty of getting through plans. We expect to
0:41:14 > 0:41:20see a number of small sites, with seven-10 turbines. Quite small
0:41:20 > 0:41:29compared to Scotland. Is Mr live more right been that they don't cut
0:41:29 > 0:41:34the mustard in what we want them to We know at a good level when we can
0:41:34 > 0:41:39predict now, the ability to forecast is good. The wind is
0:41:39 > 0:41:43variable, nobody doubts that, it is buried and there are times when it
0:41:43 > 0:41:48is not strong enough and there are times when it is too strong for
0:41:48 > 0:41:53individual wind farms. But generally across the UK the
0:41:53 > 0:41:57majority are producing energy, and that is not unusual. We have always
0:41:58 > 0:42:02operated in the UK with back-up reserves in terms of the operating
0:42:02 > 0:42:07capacity and standby capacity. All forms of energy and, with a nuclear,
0:42:07 > 0:42:11gas or coal as a back-up. This is a different sort of mix we are
0:42:12 > 0:42:16entering into and we will have to look at grid, the way we manage the
0:42:16 > 0:42:25grid, and the way we bring together different forms of energy in the
0:42:25 > 0:42:30mix. A Martin Livermore, the point in the film, within this timescale,
0:42:30 > 0:42:37looking towards 2020... It is looking to deliver the goods within
0:42:37 > 0:42:41that time frame. It cannot, basically. A country with much more
0:42:41 > 0:42:46wind capacity than ours, Denmark, they produce about 20 per cent of
0:42:46 > 0:42:50energy from wind. If you look at what they consume, only about 10
0:42:50 > 0:42:55percent of what they can see him comes from wind. They are producing
0:42:55 > 0:42:59too much at the wrong time and are having to export it at two
0:42:59 > 0:43:05neighbouring countries at knock- down prices. When they need the
0:43:05 > 0:43:09power, they are importing it at a high price. We get to a point, I am
0:43:09 > 0:43:12not saying it cannot make some contribution, but you get to a
0:43:12 > 0:43:20point where it does not make sense to put any more in because you are
0:43:20 > 0:43:27not saving any generating capacity. How do we attain these targets? It
0:43:27 > 0:43:34can take decades to change. weaker revenue nuclear power
0:43:34 > 0:43:38station by 2020, and several during the decade. It is a long lead-in
0:43:38 > 0:43:42time and the government has been a bit slow in getting things off the
0:43:42 > 0:43:48mark. In the meantime, the reliable, cheap and efficient way of
0:43:49 > 0:43:54generating electricity is through gas turbines. Lower carbon
0:43:54 > 0:44:00emissions, than coal-fired stations, relatively efficient and they
0:44:00 > 0:44:04produce power when we want it and at an affordable price. The the
0:44:05 > 0:44:09government is proposing to build new power stations, I regret that.
0:44:09 > 0:44:14I think they should put more into developing alternative energy
0:44:14 > 0:44:18earlier and we are behind them in that. It is all about looking at
0:44:18 > 0:44:24the energy mix, nobody is suggesting we could rely on wind
0:44:24 > 0:44:29energy a loner. That is nonsense, basically. The example of Denmark
0:44:29 > 0:44:32is a good example, the need to have a better integrated grid system. We
0:44:32 > 0:44:36will have an environment where we will be buying and selling
0:44:36 > 0:44:42electricity across Europe. Alternative energy is the same as
0:44:42 > 0:44:48any form in that respect. Martin Livermore, you say the 2020 target
0:44:48 > 0:44:52can be met by building one more nuclear power station? I will not
0:44:52 > 0:44:57give an opinion as to whether the target can be met, but even if it
0:44:57 > 0:45:04can be met entirely by wins, it is debatable whether we could store
0:45:04 > 0:45:08enough wind turbines in that time. It would need something like five
0:45:08 > 0:45:13per working day to be installed, if they are producing according to
0:45:13 > 0:45:17plan, a lot of the time they are not necessarily producing, they
0:45:17 > 0:45:22will need an extra back-up. He will not be able to produce additional
0:45:22 > 0:45:28fossil power stations, you may have to build more just as the
0:45:28 > 0:45:33government is doing. Because some of the older ones will be closing.
0:45:33 > 0:45:38John, do you express a view as to whether this is achievable? I think
0:45:38 > 0:45:43we will struggle to make that target for 2020, onshore wind will
0:45:43 > 0:45:47be a part of that but we will require offshore wind Investment.
0:45:47 > 0:45:54The 2020 target is about whether we can get the finance for these
0:45:54 > 0:45:58schemes. We must drive down costs, cost is a big issue. We have got to
0:45:58 > 0:46:03reduce the costs. We are looking at an environment where gas prices are
0:46:03 > 0:46:10going up. Gas is not the cheapest form of energy at the moment but it
0:46:10 > 0:46:16will increase. New technologies, difficult to install, prices will
0:46:16 > 0:46:21be heavier. We are seeing those costs come down, onshore wind is
0:46:21 > 0:46:30more expensive than gas, but it is producing. Offshore wind is still
0:46:30 > 0:46:34very expensive, but with bigger turbines,... De renewed public
0:46:34 > 0:46:38money for this? Most forms of renewables require some subsidy,
0:46:38 > 0:46:42that is true. With nuclear, it is about what price it could be,
0:46:42 > 0:46:46people are talking about it being good value for money but that is
0:46:46 > 0:46:50based on a prediction which would cost a lot. We have not seen them
0:46:50 > 0:46:55built and we do not know what it would cost. I would be very
0:46:55 > 0:46:58interested to see what the actual numbers would be. It would be good
0:46:58 > 0:47:03to develop this discussion further but we are out of time
0:47:03 > 0:47:05unfortunately. Labour does not have many
0:47:05 > 0:47:11politicians elected in the South West, but one has said they need to
0:47:11 > 0:47:17work much harder in rural areas. A letter in May as the only Labour
0:47:17 > 0:47:24elected member in the Conservative lead District Council.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28Hello, it is Ben, your local councillor. How do you do?
0:47:28 > 0:47:34Cooper on his political manner, in an estate in Dartmouth where he has
0:47:34 > 0:47:41lived most of his life. I have thought, "thank goodness somebody
0:47:41 > 0:47:47young is on the council." it is not just his age, 25, which makes Ben
0:47:47 > 0:47:55unusual. It is his politics. He is the only Labour district councillor
0:47:55 > 0:47:59here. Labour in the rural areas are not up to scratch. We are talking
0:47:59 > 0:48:04about it now, which is good. Pockets of support, rural
0:48:04 > 0:48:09deprivation which Labour should really be talking about will stop
0:48:09 > 0:48:14in affluent Dartmouth, it sticks out, a big estate with 80 per cent
0:48:14 > 0:48:19social housing. Like many coastal towns and the South West, lots of
0:48:19 > 0:48:24employment in the town is seasonal. In winter, getting work is hard.
0:48:24 > 0:48:31Harder still in the current economic climate. A few minutes at
0:48:31 > 0:48:38a regular work club. It is all too apparent what the problems are.
0:48:38 > 0:48:42Chops it in Dartmouth, eight people coming in looking for work. Like
0:48:42 > 0:48:48much of the region there are plans for major housing developments.
0:48:48 > 0:48:54They are ambitious proposals and for some on the men's ward,
0:48:54 > 0:49:03alarming. Hundreds of houses will be built over the next few years,
0:49:03 > 0:49:08jobs are a big issue. Making sure what the employment units are going
0:49:08 > 0:49:13to do is important, making sure that people are moving in and they
0:49:13 > 0:49:19are a priority for locals. He says he will fight for what is best for
0:49:19 > 0:49:24his ward, but what can one man do when the odds are so stacked
0:49:24 > 0:49:31against him? A lone Labour voice in a Tory council. It is slightly
0:49:31 > 0:49:37different, I find the meetings fairly conservative. I can only try
0:49:37 > 0:49:43to persuade them to do some things differently. But in some proposals
0:49:43 > 0:49:49on the scrutiny Panels I sit on. It is tough work, a big mountain to
0:49:49 > 0:49:53climb but I hope we can achieve something. Already one of his ideas
0:49:53 > 0:50:03is to freeze the cost of the ferry which links Dartmouth and King-
0:50:03 > 0:50:07Smith. A key quarter -- commuter route. The cost does mount up, for
0:50:07 > 0:50:15normal families on lower incomes. It is really important we challenge
0:50:15 > 0:50:20them and to get the price down. While he is on his own politically,
0:50:20 > 0:50:24there is plenty of support. The owner of the cafe where he works
0:50:24 > 0:50:29was an independent town councillor. For her, the next generation must
0:50:29 > 0:50:34engage with politics, and that means more than voting. I think it
0:50:34 > 0:50:38is fantastic, he is young, enthusiastic, and he is
0:50:38 > 0:50:43representing a part of the committee which do not have a voice
0:50:43 > 0:50:48these days. I am so glad somebody of his age is interested in
0:50:48 > 0:50:52politics. For somewhere like Dartmouth, without a big cross-
0:50:52 > 0:50:56section of people, it is fantastic that he wants to do it and make a
0:50:56 > 0:51:02difference to people's lives which I hope he can do. What of the
0:51:02 > 0:51:08future? Ben says he has no ambition for higher office, his politics is
0:51:08 > 0:51:14closer to home. Ending the politics show in the South West for this