:00:53. > :00:56.In the self: As protest cannot get close down, we have been to the one
:00:57. > :01:00.that is actually welcomed by the local authorities.
:01:00. > :01:10.And could the Isle of Wight really become the most environmentally
:01:10. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :40:11.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2341 seconds
:40:11. > :40:15.Hello, welcome to the part of the show especially for us in the south.
:40:15. > :40:19.And today's show: Plans to turn the Isle of Wight green.
:40:19. > :40:25.They don't just want to be energy- efficient, they want to be
:40:25. > :40:29.exporting energy in 10 years' time. We also find out why one of our
:40:29. > :40:33.committee of MPs thinks our councils are getting too much money
:40:33. > :40:37.from the government. And we will be hearing from the one
:40:37. > :40:40.that protest camp where the council is actually welcoming. I think they
:40:40. > :40:46.have caught the public mood and they are not doing any harm. More
:40:46. > :40:49.on that in a few minutes. This week, Parliament's green
:40:49. > :40:52.watchdog, the environmental audit committee, claimed the UK is
:40:52. > :40:58.failing to meet air pollution targets over the majority of the
:40:58. > :41:01.country and that current levels are shortening life expectancy for
:41:01. > :41:05.hundreds of thousands of people. But rather than pushing to cut
:41:05. > :41:09.pollution on British roads, the government is trying to water down
:41:09. > :41:16.the rules and avoid EU fines. Joining us now from a Brussels
:41:16. > :41:26.studio is the Green Party MEP Keith Taylor. What is most worrying, do
:41:26. > :41:27.
:41:27. > :41:36.you think, nitrogen dioxide, or the particulars? Where you are stuck
:41:36. > :41:41.between a devil and a hard place. We have a basket of toxic
:41:41. > :41:46.substances which all affect respiratory disease and increase it.
:41:47. > :41:53.Over the last 10 years we have seen an increase of of 400,000 people
:41:53. > :41:57.who have contracted asthma. This is together with chronic obstructive
:41:57. > :42:01.pulmonary disease. This is bad news. The government is standing by, but
:42:01. > :42:05.really they have known about these European targets the 10 years and
:42:05. > :42:10.have chosen to attach little importance to them. They are
:42:10. > :42:15.putting more effective, as the environmental audit committee says,
:42:15. > :42:22.into trying to water down at the regulations. What I want to see his
:42:22. > :42:26.money being spent on improving the air quality. But what exactly is
:42:27. > :42:30.the problem? Some people say it is particular its from diesel cars,
:42:30. > :42:37.because we have all switched to diesel, in some cases because we're
:42:37. > :42:45.trying to be green and more efficient. And is it actually
:42:45. > :42:52.everywhere, is it a global problem? Well, some pollution comes across
:42:52. > :42:59.the Channel, but the point is it is worse in cities because seven --
:42:59. > :43:04.70% of the air pollution is emitted by transport, traffic. So it is
:43:04. > :43:09.worse in cities. So we need to improve the traffic management and
:43:09. > :43:14.the type of fuel we use and we need to actually put in, as the
:43:14. > :43:20.environmental audit committee suggested, Low emission zones. That
:43:20. > :43:23.is something the government can do. Should we be sorting out diesel?
:43:23. > :43:30.That is something a lot of environmental campaigners thought
:43:30. > :43:34.was a good thing. Well, as you say, the taxation was encouraging car
:43:34. > :43:41.owners to buy diesel cars. What we need to do actually is to get away
:43:41. > :43:47.from oil products altogether. So if we can use hybrids, or electric
:43:47. > :43:51.cars, that is going to be part of the solution. There are too many
:43:51. > :44:01.cars making too many journeys. Everybody can do something to
:44:01. > :44:05.
:44:05. > :44:08.reduce their damage. The Green Party has campaigned so much
:44:09. > :44:15.against vehicle traffic, but that will harm the economy, and at the
:44:16. > :44:22.moment that is a real problem, isn't it? We aren't campaigning
:44:23. > :44:26.against vehicle traffic. We would love to see the need for travel at
:44:26. > :44:31.reduced. We need to have sustainable, affordable, efficient
:44:31. > :44:37.and less damaging forms of transport. Cities are the best
:44:37. > :44:42.place to start achieving that. Keith Taylor, thank you for joining
:44:42. > :44:47.It has not been a good week for the various Occupy protest camps around
:44:47. > :44:49.the world. New York and other American cities started to remove
:44:49. > :44:54.theirs, and that son Paul's and London authorities have restarted
:44:55. > :44:59.their eviction plans. But there is still one camp going which is not
:44:59. > :45:04.tolerated -- is not just tolerated by the local council, it is
:45:04. > :45:10.welcomed. The authorities in New York launched an aggressive
:45:10. > :45:17.eviction against Occupy Wall Street. Police also broke up camps in
:45:17. > :45:21.Portland, Oregon, and California. In sympathy with protesters at St
:45:21. > :45:25.Paul's in London, the occupy movement in Bournemouth to go over
:45:25. > :45:35.the town hall for a fortnight, but have now been peaceably evicted,
:45:35. > :45:41.
:45:41. > :45:44.although they continue to debate on Yet, as are the camps of falling
:45:44. > :45:48.foul of local authorities, the occupation in Brighton is
:45:48. > :45:53.positively flourishing, with the support of the local community and
:45:53. > :46:01.even the City Council. They have been supportive, they have come
:46:01. > :46:05.here with fruit, they honk when they see the camp. The Green
:46:05. > :46:09.council have obviously been very supportive. We're lucky to have
:46:09. > :46:14.Caroline Lucas here, she has been a rock. Sussex police have been very
:46:14. > :46:18.helpful as well. We have good relations with them. I think it has
:46:18. > :46:23.been very successful. It is helping to raise people's awareness of what
:46:23. > :46:28.is going on. The occupiers have gone to great lengths to keep the
:46:28. > :46:33.camp clean and tidy and to engage with the authorities. It has been
:46:33. > :46:38.very good. The council offices and the police visit the camp regularly,
:46:38. > :46:43.talk to the campus. When they have had requests from the Council for
:46:44. > :46:48.the campus to do things differently, corporation has been very good.
:46:48. > :46:55.movement has regular discussions, debates, General assemblies. But
:46:55. > :47:05.can that ever be more than just a talking shop? What are they trying
:47:05. > :47:10.
:47:10. > :47:19.to achieve? Fairness. The present so sheer economic system is unfair.
:47:19. > :47:25.--socio-economic. My hope is that the corporation's, the banks, take
:47:25. > :47:29.some responsibility and be more fair and ethical. I think it is
:47:29. > :47:32.very important to raise awareness because perhaps a few people cannot
:47:32. > :47:38.make a difference, but if a lot of people are informed and made aware
:47:38. > :47:46.of the way in which we can resist this injustice, I think change can
:47:46. > :47:50.happen. The camp is not without its critics. Hove Conservative MP Mike
:47:51. > :47:55.Weatherley says camping in public spaces as a form of protest is
:47:55. > :47:59.completely unacceptable. So why is the Brighton camp been tolerated by
:47:59. > :48:02.authorities? I think they have caught the public made and they are
:48:02. > :48:06.not really doing any meat. It is not up to us as to judge their
:48:06. > :48:10.message, it is up dyes to make sure we preserve public safety, and we
:48:10. > :48:20.do so in a way that spends public money wisely. At the moment, we
:48:20. > :48:22.
:48:22. > :48:28.have no intention to affect them. - - to evict them. This movement may
:48:28. > :48:37.have a vague objective, but they do want to see a fairer society for
:48:37. > :48:45.everyone. We want people to come -- to become aware of how their
:48:45. > :48:49.actions affect everyone, people in Europe, Africa, South America.
:48:49. > :48:52.can't just complain about something, you have to have a sensible
:48:52. > :49:02.suggestion of how to cope with it and how to move on. That is what
:49:02. > :49:03.
:49:03. > :49:07.this camp is about. History has proven one thing - we evolve. Our
:49:08. > :49:11.perception of what is fair evolves, civil rights evolve, and this is
:49:11. > :49:18.one of those times. It is time everybody to get real about the
:49:18. > :49:26.problems we face. That is what Occupy is about to me. If Occupy
:49:26. > :49:29.can work anywhere, it is here. very interesting place, as ever.
:49:30. > :49:34.Parliamentary committees have been very busy this week, perhaps making
:49:34. > :49:37.up for the fact MPs have been on recess for half the week. One
:49:37. > :49:42.making its mark is the Public Accounts Committee, which this week
:49:42. > :49:45.released a report into the funding formula used to pass money from
:49:45. > :49:50.central to local government. They reckon some councils are getting
:49:50. > :49:54.double what they need, whilst others fall short. And they named
:49:54. > :49:58.names - they reckoned that Wokingham gets more than its fair
:49:58. > :50:02.share whilst Dorset is seriously missing out. So I'm joined now from
:50:02. > :50:05.Reading by the leader of the Woking Borough Council David Lee, and he
:50:05. > :50:12.with me in the studio is the leader of Dorset County Council, Angus
:50:12. > :50:16.Campbell. David Lee - twice as much as you need, it is suggested!
:50:16. > :50:21.yes, I find that quite interesting. We all were already the worst
:50:21. > :50:30.funded authority in the country. And now they think we will get
:50:30. > :50:36.twice as much as we should. Margaret Hodge thinks we should be
:50:36. > :50:41.getting about �57 per person, which is ridiculous, I think. It is all
:50:41. > :50:46.assessed on the need, isn't it? A you think -- suggesting this
:50:46. > :50:53.formula should be thrown away, or is in fact it about the stability
:50:53. > :50:56.side of things which is playing in your favour? It is important we
:50:56. > :51:00.have a level playing field and end areas of deprivation, it is
:51:00. > :51:04.important to give them more funding. We're not complaining about that.
:51:04. > :51:09.But I cannot see how it could possibly cost 18 times more to look
:51:09. > :51:14.after someone -- someone with dementia in London. The London per
:51:14. > :51:18.head funding is in the region of �1,045, so I cannot see how we
:51:18. > :51:23.could be pushed down to that level and to provide the services we have
:51:23. > :51:26.to. But you are not being pushed down, actually, you are being
:51:26. > :51:33.artificially supported. Do you agree this support is something
:51:33. > :51:39.which is wrong? I think the level we get, we would of course like to
:51:39. > :51:42.get more, but we're quite happy to pay our bit towards helping the
:51:42. > :51:47.economy, we have had a 10% reduction and we will have a
:51:47. > :51:49.further 10% reduction next year. But we cannot lose a further �9
:51:49. > :51:55.million because that would definitely start affecting the
:51:55. > :52:00.services. I think they have to look at the formula and not the actual
:52:00. > :52:04.quantities coming up. We know we are in affluent area but we are not
:52:04. > :52:08.so after when we can afford to be down to that level. Angus Campbell,
:52:08. > :52:17.you have been arguing for more in Dorset for a long time. We now know
:52:17. > :52:21.where it is going! You are trying to get as against each other! What
:52:21. > :52:25.I would agree with is that the formula is fairly useless. It is
:52:25. > :52:30.totally opaque. If you ask any minister how it works, and you
:52:30. > :52:36.cannot find anybody who understands. It has certainly disadvantaged
:52:36. > :52:43.Dorset for many years. Up till recently, we were the worst funded
:52:43. > :52:49.per head. I suppose everybody has that statistic which will prove
:52:49. > :52:53.their case. Yes, he was saying he was poorly funded! But the system
:52:53. > :52:59.is entirely wrong and it does not take account of the circumstances.
:52:59. > :53:04.What is happening to others is that a levelling system is in place. At
:53:04. > :53:09.the moment, we lose �7 million on average per year above what we are
:53:09. > :53:19.supposed to get. We could very well do with that money. Is that what is
:53:19. > :53:24.
:53:24. > :53:32.benefiting them in working in? -- in Wokingham? I think they thought
:53:32. > :53:37.counties getting the benefit and take it away earlier on. But it is
:53:37. > :53:47.not fair. You cannot take �7 million art of a hard-pressed
:53:47. > :53:49.
:53:49. > :53:59.budget. And this is based on the 2001 currently, they are looking at
:53:59. > :54:11.
:54:11. > :54:15.this. -- This is based on the 2001 census. Yes, and there is a great
:54:15. > :54:20.danger we will end up in exactly the same place as we were in, with
:54:20. > :54:24.a system that starts charging gainers. We have to make a break
:54:24. > :54:27.and have a realistic way of funding organisations for need and not
:54:27. > :54:31.stability. We were never going to get perfect knowledge about all
:54:31. > :54:40.these things. We have to work to some assumptions, don't we, David
:54:40. > :54:49.Lee? Had been did is only right we work to some assumptions. But -- I
:54:49. > :54:59.think it is only right. But we do well because we actually have a lot
:54:59. > :55:00.
:55:00. > :55:04.of area intervention to help problem families, for example. I
:55:04. > :55:07.think they have to go back, because it is not right to reward failure
:55:07. > :55:12.and to penalise success. We have been very successful in a lot of
:55:12. > :55:18.the things we do. Are secondary pupil funding is down at the very
:55:18. > :55:22.lowest level, our Primary Care Trust funding is the second lowest
:55:22. > :55:26.in the country, because we actually have prevented its systems in place
:55:26. > :55:33.for our elderly and extra care. I think we will need to look
:55:33. > :55:36.carefully at the formula. We're more than happy to pay our share.
:55:36. > :55:39.Good to hear from both the view. And hopefully we understand a bit
:55:39. > :55:42.more about it. We although the coalition is
:55:42. > :55:47.claiming to be the greenest government ever, but how about an
:55:47. > :55:51.ambition to be the greenest island ever? That is exactly what a scheme
:55:51. > :55:53.launched on the Isle of Wight - called Ecoisland - is hoping to
:55:53. > :55:57.achieve. The idea is to combine various
:55:57. > :56:03.renewable sources of energy and distribute them as efficiently as
:56:03. > :56:07.possible. There are some ambitious targets. The island wants to be a
:56:07. > :56:12.net exporter of energy by 2020, it wants to reduce bills for residents
:56:12. > :56:17.by 50%, to create jobs for investments in green technology,
:56:17. > :56:25.and to cut landfill-0. There is already some so energy in place,
:56:25. > :56:30.but no wind turbines, no tidal energy, yet. This week, organisers
:56:30. > :56:33.travelled to London for a launch at the House of Commons, where Cabinet
:56:33. > :56:43.officer minister on the Met win was pushing it as an example of big
:56:43. > :56:48.
:56:48. > :56:54.society. -- office minister Oliver Letwin. We have to act in the end,
:56:55. > :56:58.and this is in a sample of people getting together to try to do it.
:56:58. > :57:02.But you exactly should be organising things? One man who has
:57:02. > :57:06.taken action is David Green. You originally tried to do this with
:57:06. > :57:09.the Isle of Wight council and did not get very far. I think the
:57:09. > :57:14.difficulty is in the current round of spending cuts there is not
:57:14. > :57:19.really the resources or money to drive a scheme of this scale. So it
:57:19. > :57:22.has come up from the community and into this form. There are 70
:57:22. > :57:26.partners you really have the opportunity to take this forward
:57:26. > :57:30.into the brave new world we envisage. Do you feel stronger
:57:30. > :57:35.without having to deal with the council and doing it yourself?
:57:35. > :57:38.is difficult. If you look into this localism bill, you will see there
:57:38. > :57:42.are ingredients that for communities like as to be slightly
:57:42. > :57:46.more self determining, so we do have planning opportunities within
:57:46. > :57:49.that, services that can obviously be challenged. But the most
:57:50. > :57:54.important thing is the will of the people. If the community really
:57:54. > :57:58.wants something, we are in a position to request that, using a
:57:58. > :58:03.mixture of local and outside business interest. I don't want to
:58:03. > :58:07.be rude to the Isle of Wight, but there independent spirit means it's
:58:07. > :58:11.like herding cats, doesn't it? are looking for a model which will
:58:11. > :58:15.then be applied to the rest of the UK. Part of the government's
:58:15. > :58:19.challenges to find this green for a print, this model of the green
:58:19. > :58:24.agenda, that can then be replicated elsewhere. So in some ways, we are
:58:24. > :58:28.not looking for independence, but self-sufficiency. That is a very
:58:28. > :58:32.different thing. And you think people are taking this a more than
:58:32. > :58:39.they did when it was the council's idea? Well, we put out a charter
:58:39. > :58:44.setting out our idea of the future. We did not have a single the centre.
:58:44. > :58:50.So at that point, 100% of the responses we got was a -- were that
:58:50. > :58:56.it was a great idea. Yes, everybody thinks the idea is great until they
:58:56. > :59:00.have to pay for it. Is it going to cost a lot? I think the interesting
:59:00. > :59:05.thing is the whole thing has been done without a single penny of bank
:59:05. > :59:09.debt, a single dance -- donation or any government money. And there is
:59:09. > :59:13.no intention whatsoever of leaving any of that cash out of the pockets
:59:13. > :59:20.of the people of the Isle of Wight. In fact, we want to put money
:59:20. > :59:24.backing. We have got people who are now looking at reducing the energy
:59:24. > :59:28.bills for the people of the island as a result of the energy we are
:59:28. > :59:32.able to sell back to the grid. you reckon you will be a net
:59:32. > :59:38.exporter of energy! We will have you back to make sure those targets
:59:39. > :59:43.are reached! Thank you for coming in. That is all from us for now. If