:00:56. > :01:00.In the south: It could be the biggest strike for generations, but
:01:00. > :01:06.what well when stays walk out mean for us. We will also ask whether
:01:06. > :01:16.you can have too much choice in education. And as Inter Faith Week
:01:16. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :34:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2012 seconds
:34:48. > :34:51.draws to a close, does religion and Welcome to the part of the show for
:34:52. > :34:57.us in the south. On Today show we will be finding
:34:57. > :35:04.out how you can sometimes have to much choice in education. Do
:35:04. > :35:07.politics and religion next? At first, on Wednesday, 24 unions
:35:07. > :35:12.across the public sector will be striking against the public sector
:35:12. > :35:16.pension reforms. Schools in the south wall close, bins will go and
:35:16. > :35:20.emptied, passports could go unchecked. It could be the biggest
:35:20. > :35:25.strike in generations and there is not a sizable town or city in our
:35:25. > :35:30.region that will not have a march. A major headache for the government,
:35:30. > :35:33.but also a sizable one for the opposition. Labour has not been
:35:33. > :35:39.fulsome in its support of the strike. This is what the party
:35:39. > :35:42.leader said last week. No stone should be left unturned to
:35:42. > :35:48.prevent the strikes. Of course it is the case that I think throughout
:35:48. > :35:53.all of the services, basic services should be maintained and everything
:35:53. > :35:57.should be done to make sure that the safety of the public is not put
:35:57. > :36:02.at risk. There will be huge inconvenience if the strike goes
:36:02. > :36:05.ahead, but all of those measures should be taken to protect.
:36:05. > :36:09.We should do what we can to keep the country running as normal as
:36:09. > :36:14.possible, but the decision to strike has been taken by union
:36:14. > :36:19.leaders on the basis of very low vote and they are deciding to go on
:36:19. > :36:23.strike when negotiations are still ongoing. It is very irresponsible
:36:23. > :36:26.and the offer we have made in terms of public sector pensions is a
:36:26. > :36:33.generous offer. So what will be happening here on
:36:33. > :36:40.Wednesday in the South? With us is the Conservative MP for Bournemouth.
:36:40. > :36:45.Amanda Martin from the nut. Alan Whitehead from Labour in
:36:45. > :36:50.Southampton. Are you in favour of the strike? Well, no one likes
:36:50. > :36:55.strikes and strikes are a failure. This has to be resolved by a proper
:36:55. > :37:00.negotiations and it has to be done quickly. So you do not think Amanda
:37:00. > :37:06.should walk out? Is both sides are saying they should negotiate, then
:37:06. > :37:10.they should not walk out. Tobias, we heard your leader say it was a
:37:10. > :37:14.decision of the trade unions, but it is actually a decision of the
:37:14. > :37:20.government. He is absolutely right to question who is leading this
:37:20. > :37:26.strike. Take you Nissan, only a third of members actually took part
:37:26. > :37:31.in the ballot. Only half of those decided to go on strike so that
:37:32. > :37:38.means the majority of members are not in favour. Take the National
:37:38. > :37:42.Union of Teachers, 90% in favour. Head teachers even greater turnout.
:37:43. > :37:46.60% did not bother getting involved with this ballot. The Prime
:37:46. > :37:50.Minister is right to question he is driving this. We have to look at
:37:50. > :37:56.the bigger picture and say we are living 10 years longer than in the
:37:56. > :38:00.Seventies and in the last 10 years, the pensions increase by a third
:38:00. > :38:04.under Labour. We cannot continue with that. Are not., are the
:38:04. > :38:09.teachers in your school in Portsmouth and other ones, are they
:38:09. > :38:14.in favour of walking out? They are rejecting proposals. Nobody wants
:38:14. > :38:19.to go on strike. It is a last resort. Negotiations have been
:38:19. > :38:24.going on. On 13th June, the National Union of Teachers was one
:38:24. > :38:29.of the ones that walked out. We believe that had we not walked out,
:38:29. > :38:33.those negotiations would have ended. But there must be some people
:38:33. > :38:37.bothered about doing this during negotiations. How many people would
:38:37. > :38:43.like this strike not to happen? don't think anybody wants to strike
:38:43. > :38:48.to happen, it is a last resort. We have surveyed members and over 40%
:38:48. > :38:54.of our membership, but when you look at what Mr Cameron was elected
:38:55. > :39:00.on, he was not elected on 40% of the votes in this country. He was
:39:00. > :39:05.elected on a recognise system. is a recognised system. But it is
:39:05. > :39:08.not representing those who are involved in the strike itself. This
:39:08. > :39:14.strike will cost the country potentially over half a billion
:39:14. > :39:18.pounds. In Dorset, there is talk in the hospital of already cancelling
:39:18. > :39:23.movements of patients and dealing with emergency services. It is
:39:23. > :39:29.effecting people as we speak. Are like to bury a myth about whether
:39:29. > :39:33.this is bad for teachers and workers, a nurse on a salary of
:39:33. > :39:40.34,000 will be better off under the new system. They currently have a
:39:40. > :39:50.pension of 17,300, that will move up to 22,000. A teacher on 37,000
:39:50. > :39:50.
:39:50. > :39:56.will move from 19,000 to 25,000. It is a high-flyer that will move from
:39:56. > :40:01.66,000, their pensions will go down to 44,000. Those are your figures.
:40:01. > :40:05.Alan Whitehead, why are you shaking your head? Because those of fantasy
:40:05. > :40:13.figures. The reality is that the vast majority of people in the
:40:13. > :40:19.public sector are not that well paid. By example, 800,000, mainly
:40:19. > :40:24.women workers in the public sector, although they are burning ever
:40:24. > :40:28.15,000, because they are not full- time are effectively under 15,000
:40:28. > :40:33.in actual play and the offer that the government has put on the table
:40:33. > :40:38.for that payment has no effect on those at all. They will be paying
:40:38. > :40:41.the 3p in the pound hike that was unilaterally grabbed by the
:40:41. > :40:46.government without any consultation or negotiations are now the
:40:46. > :40:51.government is saying we will not negotiate on that central point.
:40:51. > :40:55.Frankly, if you or I had a three pence increase in our income tax
:40:55. > :41:00.unilaterally given to us, we would be fed up about it. But you would
:41:00. > :41:05.have had to do something yourself. If you were in government here are
:41:05. > :41:08.you saying you would have negotiated? The last Labour
:41:08. > :41:13.government introduced arrangements to secure the sustainability long-
:41:13. > :41:18.term which is what a bias is talking about of the pension system.
:41:18. > :41:21.The present 3p just go straight to the Treasury. It is about a
:41:22. > :41:28.different agenda entirely. The government is not negotiating on
:41:28. > :41:32.that. They need to sit around the table and negotiate about that. It
:41:32. > :41:38.may be a give and take, but if they do that will be in a better place.
:41:38. > :41:44.Why not give negotiators a chance? We have. Way as the government to
:41:44. > :41:50.do an audit and Allen is correct in saying that there was an overhaul
:41:50. > :41:53.in 2007 of the teachers' pension. There were changes made such as
:41:53. > :41:57.five years added on to the age of leaving and all of those things
:41:57. > :42:04.were put into place because we recognised there were concerns.
:42:04. > :42:08.There has been since 1923, 46.4 billion more pounds paid into the
:42:08. > :42:12.teachers' pension scheme and has come out. We are asking for an
:42:12. > :42:16.audit. For the government to do this overdue audit on the pension
:42:16. > :42:21.scheme. If it comes up and says there needs to be conversation
:42:21. > :42:27.about pensions and contributions, then we will take that. Why haven't
:42:27. > :42:31.you done that audit Tobias? You haven't bothered to get on and do
:42:31. > :42:35.it before the negotiations. Let's make it clear what happened under
:42:35. > :42:40.the last 10 years. Pensions under the last 10 years for the public
:42:40. > :42:49.sector increase by a third. That is extremely generous. That is not
:42:49. > :42:54.possible in the downturn. The same jobs being done by the public
:42:54. > :42:58.sector the average private sector pension is �3,700. The question is,
:42:58. > :43:01.how long can you keep feeding am providing these high levels of
:43:01. > :43:07.pensions when we are under the current economic cloud it is not
:43:07. > :43:13.possible. When I leave my teaching job in 30 years, I will get �8,000
:43:13. > :43:18.per year for my pension. I have paid into that. People who have
:43:18. > :43:23.come into the job since university, and now have to pay for their
:43:23. > :43:27.degree, four years of study, and then when you come in and go in
:43:27. > :43:32.line with another graduate in the private sector, your wages are no
:43:32. > :43:35.where near. It is not our fault that the private sector have taken
:43:35. > :43:39.the pots of money full pension. It is not our fault that teachers are
:43:39. > :43:44.paying in. The government needs to look at the entire state pension
:43:44. > :43:48.and have a real look at that. the negotiations go better as a
:43:48. > :43:55.result of the strike? They are saying there are three concessions,
:43:55. > :43:59.they have given us one. Alan, you think a strike should not happen?
:43:59. > :44:02.If there are real negotiations and that would include this 3p grab
:44:02. > :44:08.that has taken place, there know they should not be strikes because
:44:08. > :44:11.people should be sitting around the table talking. Are you keeping
:44:11. > :44:17.concessions up your sleeve? I am concerned that the strikes will
:44:17. > :44:21.cause huge damage and not lead to any form of agreement. They are not
:44:21. > :44:25.representative of all people and the public sector. It is down to
:44:25. > :44:29.all people. Thank you all for coming in.
:44:29. > :44:36.The new Education Act talked a lot about freeing up schools from state
:44:36. > :44:40.and local authority control. Choice being a good thing, of course, or
:44:40. > :44:50.is it? Sometimes having so many different things to choose from can
:44:50. > :44:55.leave you with not much real choice at all.
:44:55. > :45:00.Choosing a school in Berkshire is child's play, isn't it? And there
:45:00. > :45:04.are so many choices. There are already local council schools,
:45:04. > :45:10.Austell academies, new-style academies and three schools. Keep
:45:10. > :45:13.up at the back. It is all a bit of a mess. These parents have been
:45:13. > :45:18.racking their brains on how to make sure there is somewhere for their
:45:18. > :45:22.young children to go when the time comes. We really have no option of
:45:22. > :45:27.where to send our children. My youngest is for and it now looking
:45:27. > :45:31.at the numbers of children coming through, the school and area is
:45:31. > :45:36.going to be overwhelmed with new building. There are no places for
:45:36. > :45:38.my child to go to school. academy would be fine, but it is
:45:39. > :45:43.oversubscribed for the local communities so we would have no
:45:43. > :45:47.opportunity. These Mums Net of seven miles from the secondary
:45:47. > :45:53.school on offer which has fewer places and the nearest school in
:45:53. > :46:00.Reading is oversubscribed. Hold on, though. There is now the Education
:46:00. > :46:05.Bill 2011. Has anyone considered a free school? What do you think?
:46:06. > :46:13.Brilliant. We have the side right there that we can create a school
:46:13. > :46:17.This site was only closed about a year and a half ago and it has
:46:17. > :46:22.always been a school up until 100 years ago. It has all the
:46:22. > :46:26.facilities we require. Re using the site of a former at
:46:26. > :46:31.secondary school, Oakbank free school will open up here in
:46:31. > :46:36.September. As the new academy, it will get his money from central
:46:36. > :46:40.government, not the local council. All Saints Junior in Reading has
:46:40. > :46:44.done this in September admitting seven year-old from All Saints
:46:44. > :46:48.infants struggling to find a place elsewhere. Although there are some
:46:48. > :46:52.excellent primary schools, there was not space. It has meant they
:46:52. > :46:59.can stay together as a friendship group and it has meant that the
:46:59. > :47:06.transition for them has been smooth. The Education Bill is also helping
:47:06. > :47:11.new university technical current images. Reading may get its first
:47:11. > :47:15.very soon. This offers a very different type of education,
:47:15. > :47:22.technically based education although it has an academic call.
:47:22. > :47:25.It offers an eight until 5pm school day. It involves more teaching and
:47:25. > :47:28.more freedom for the school and how it carries out the national
:47:28. > :47:33.curriculum. The make-up of schools in this area
:47:33. > :47:37.is particularly mixed with newly- launched Academy's outnumbering
:47:37. > :47:41.council-run schools. And with the free school movement gathering
:47:41. > :47:45.momentum, and each will be confident that parents know what
:47:45. > :47:51.their options are and what difference it makes?
:47:51. > :47:54.These are just numbers, are they? Reading else will is one of only
:47:54. > :47:58.two none Academy Schools in the borough which still gets their
:47:58. > :48:02.funding locally. Despite this, they say they do not feel like second
:48:02. > :48:07.best. We still offer a good quality of
:48:07. > :48:11.education. Essentially, what has the Academy Bill changed? We
:48:11. > :48:14.certainly had certain freedoms and we still have freedoms of the
:48:14. > :48:20.curriculum in the school, which is exactly the same as what academies
:48:20. > :48:24.have got. But, according to some, the choice is so baffling that
:48:24. > :48:29.parents of children with poorer backgrounds will get left behind.
:48:29. > :48:33.I think it will lead to a much more fragmented school system whereby
:48:33. > :48:37.the parents in the know can play the system and possibly get the
:48:37. > :48:42.school that they want for their child, but it may leave behind
:48:42. > :48:45.other parents who are a bit confused about what is going on.
:48:45. > :48:51.As for local education authorities like Reading, the lack of money
:48:51. > :48:55.left to spend on its schools is a challenge. So, while the Education
:48:55. > :48:59.Bill aims to give schools greater budget freedom and parents greater
:48:59. > :49:05.confidence, the doubters fear it will fail and others give it and a
:49:05. > :49:09.staff. Last year more free schools opened so it was diving into the
:49:09. > :49:14.unknown, but yes, the fact that there was an opportunity to do
:49:14. > :49:18.something about it was what made us go down that road. We are hugely
:49:18. > :49:23.grateful that it exists because it is giving us the chance to give our
:49:23. > :49:27.children what they need. Some tough choices for parents and
:49:27. > :49:33.education authorities. This week has been the third annual
:49:33. > :49:38.inter-faith week. It was originally started to introduce awareness of
:49:38. > :49:41.the different faiths. It all sounds laudable, but it maybe feels more
:49:41. > :49:46.relevant at a time when faith groups are being encouraged to get
:49:46. > :49:51.involved in a big society. Guard and Mammon are squaring gap outside
:49:51. > :49:56.St Paul's. Bishops are writing to their papers criticising welfare
:49:56. > :50:02.plans. With me in the studio at his Mohammed Ansar and Right Reverend
:50:02. > :50:06.Nicholas Holtham. Welcome both of you. Difficult choices we saw for
:50:06. > :50:12.parents. Is it a time for leadership and should that be
:50:12. > :50:14.religious leadership? Difficult choices for everybody in an
:50:14. > :50:19.economic downturn, but if Jesus said love God and love your
:50:19. > :50:23.neighbour as yourself, there is not an option but for people of faith
:50:23. > :50:27.to get involved. In a way that they were not five years ago? I think
:50:27. > :50:31.Christians have always been involved in politics, but in an
:50:31. > :50:35.economic downturn people look more about our believes and commitments
:50:35. > :50:39.to each other. Between the faith communities there are strong
:50:39. > :50:44.connections in terms of social justice and care for the poor. We
:50:44. > :50:51.can do a lot together. Is it the most vulnerable you feel you should
:50:51. > :50:55.be getting involved with? I don't think you forget the bankers
:50:55. > :51:00.because it is important that bankers realise the task they are
:51:00. > :51:03.involved in is a social good. That is one of the things they seem to
:51:03. > :51:09.have forgotten. It is not about what I can get out of the system
:51:09. > :51:13.for me. Of course people of faith care more for the poorest. That is
:51:13. > :51:19.the structure in the scriptures, there is a common ground for the
:51:19. > :51:22.careful the poorest who are in need. Mohammed Ansar, what is the place
:51:22. > :51:28.in inter-faith week for religious communities to get involved in
:51:28. > :51:32.politics? There is a very clear place for faith in politics. In
:51:32. > :51:36.broader society and public affairs. When we look at the situation we
:51:36. > :51:41.find ourselves in, there are some great challenges put before us.
:51:41. > :51:45.Whether it is social justice, the cuts, government policy and nothing
:51:45. > :51:49.that is lacking more than anything else, there is a moral vacuum.
:51:49. > :51:55.There is a sense of morality missing and this is something that
:51:55. > :51:58.those who are faithful bring to the table. It is about choices, then?
:51:58. > :52:03.So are you saying to people to make your own choices or are we
:52:03. > :52:07.providing leadership and saying, fine example, if you're a trade
:52:07. > :52:11.unionist you should strike? Dynamic leadership is something that has
:52:11. > :52:18.been a great challenge for all of the faith communities for a long
:52:18. > :52:23.time. Our friend here is an example of very progressive and forward-
:52:23. > :52:26.thinking members of the clergy within the Christian Church. Within
:52:26. > :52:32.the Muslim community we are coming together and the kind of leadership
:52:32. > :52:36.needed in society will be centred around public dialogue. Divisions
:52:36. > :52:40.within religions maybe become less at a time when you have to reach
:52:40. > :52:46.out and get involved in the real world? I would hope that from an
:52:46. > :52:51.Islamic perspective we would rely on the scriptures. You come to
:52:51. > :52:55.common terms with each other. Whether that is Muslims or non
:52:55. > :52:58.Muslims within Muslim community is, we have to set aside our
:52:58. > :53:02.differences. There is a huge challenge and a great need in
:53:02. > :53:06.society for people to have direction and leadership. It is a
:53:06. > :53:14.great opportunity around inter- faith week to come together and
:53:15. > :53:18.look at, and into it -- a common interest. Do you fell at the moment
:53:18. > :53:26.the public are starting to recognise with the occupied protest
:53:26. > :53:31.that the Church has more of a role to play? Allergies don't want exist
:53:31. > :53:36.in a vacuum. What people of faith are doing is saying you don't get
:53:36. > :53:41.good values without religious beliefs. What religious communities
:53:41. > :53:45.can do and what is happening at St Paul's right now is that the Church
:53:45. > :53:50.is trying to discuss with a whole society. Way you stand in vexed
:53:50. > :53:54.what you can see. In a community we need to build a way of creating a
:53:54. > :53:57.common good and a sense of common purpose. Religious communities
:53:57. > :54:02.traditionally have been good at holding that discussion and
:54:02. > :54:08.bringing people together in order to work up, not to tell people what
:54:08. > :54:13.to do, but find the common good. It all sounds worthy stuff, but do
:54:13. > :54:17.you think there is a practical application? There is a hugely
:54:17. > :54:21.practical application. Religion do something that you do not getting
:54:21. > :54:26.ordinary politics. It inspires people. Inspires people in a way
:54:26. > :54:30.that light a fire within people, not just under people. Whether it