:00:47. > :00:52.Later in the programme: The Secretary of State for Wales
:00:52. > :01:02.defends the coalition. We assess the merits of charging
:01:02. > :01:02.
:01:02. > :36:40.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2137 seconds
:36:40. > :36:47.for bags with the Federation of Good afternoon and welcome to the
:36:47. > :36:49.Politics Show in Wales. Coming up: The carrier bag levy and the Welsh
:36:49. > :36:51.Government's draft budget. But first, the Conservatives are
:36:51. > :36:55.gathering in Manchester this week for their annual UK conference.The
:36:55. > :36:56.economy will be the main talking point but Welsh eyes will be on
:36:56. > :36:59.what's said regarding the relationship between the
:36:59. > :37:01.Government's in Westminster and Cardiff Bay. The Secretary of State
:37:01. > :37:05.for Wales has some strong criticisms of the Government here
:37:05. > :37:15.and we'll hear for Cheryl Gillan in a moment but Adrian Browne looks at
:37:15. > :37:19.
:37:19. > :37:23.how the Conservatives view themselves in Wales.
:37:23. > :37:25.And Andrew Davies, the new leader of the Conservative group in the
:37:25. > :37:30.Assembly enjoying himself meeting shopkeepers.
:37:30. > :37:34.There are still a spring in his step after his party leapfrogged
:37:34. > :37:38.Plaid Cymru in the Assembly election to become the official
:37:38. > :37:42.opposition to Labour in Cardiff Bay. He believes there is plenty of
:37:42. > :37:46.scope for further Welsh Conservative advances.
:37:46. > :37:50.I want to be offering a positive embracing manifesto that people
:37:50. > :37:54.resonate with her and put us in the position we can govern here in
:37:54. > :37:59.Wales and implement the changes required to lift Wales of the pot
:38:00. > :38:04.of the economic performance table - - the bottom. The only way you will
:38:04. > :38:09.do that is by voting Welsh Conservative.
:38:09. > :38:15.This early Tory campaigning in towns such as poor call for the
:38:15. > :38:19.local elections promises to give powers to Communities so they can
:38:19. > :38:22.do more to himself -- Porthcawl. you are talking about this
:38:22. > :38:26.particular time, there is an incredible number of people
:38:26. > :38:31.involved in the regeneration story who have been fighting for years to
:38:31. > :38:34.get things like swimming pools here. That level of local contribution to
:38:34. > :38:38.political argument is essential. One of the things about the
:38:38. > :38:43.Conservatives is we listen to that rather than just go, the government
:38:43. > :38:47.knows best, let them sorted out. How likely of voters facing rising
:38:47. > :38:51.prices, job losses and UK government have been spending cuts
:38:51. > :38:56.to keep the Conservative Party as their cup of choice?
:38:56. > :38:58.We did perform quite well in 2010 and coming second in the National
:38:58. > :39:02.Assembly elections was a step forward but we could do better. We
:39:02. > :39:06.haven't yet reached the height of the Conservative party's
:39:06. > :39:16.performance in Wales in the 1980s and your right to say the economy
:39:16. > :39:16.
:39:16. > :39:19.will be the crutch of the East -- crux of the issue.
:39:19. > :39:23.Our correspondent spoke to the Welsh Secretary of State Cheryl
:39:23. > :39:27.Gillan in Manchester. Hello from Manchester where the
:39:27. > :39:31.Conservatives are holding what is their second UK conference in
:39:31. > :39:34.coalition with the Liberal Democrats, very much a Conservative
:39:34. > :39:40.affair this week. I am joined by the Secretary of State for Wales,
:39:40. > :39:46.Cheryl Gillan. 16 months into coalition, but it looks as if the
:39:46. > :39:49.Liberal Democrats don't trust you to deliver on devolution for Wales.
:39:49. > :39:54.16 months into coalition and I think we have got a very proud
:39:54. > :39:58.record for what we have delivered in Wales and you will hear that in
:39:58. > :40:04.the conference speech this afternoon. First of all we are
:40:04. > :40:09.delivering on infrastructure project. We are putting almost a
:40:09. > :40:13.billion pounds into South Wales. �60 million going into broadband,
:40:13. > :40:18.delivering for individuals. Taking 52,000 of the lowest people out of
:40:18. > :40:22.tax and I have been delivering on devolution itself. Not only
:40:22. > :40:26.delivering legislation the last Labour government held up which
:40:26. > :40:30.people tend to forget, but also delivering on the referendum which
:40:30. > :40:34.allowed the people of Wales to make a decision on the future of the
:40:34. > :40:38.Welsh government and the Welsh Assembly. Why is it your coalition
:40:38. > :40:41.partners forced by the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats say can
:40:41. > :40:45.we rely on the Conservative Secretary of State, the
:40:45. > :40:48.understanding of devolution is too shallow, your account ability to
:40:48. > :40:58.tenuous and the wells of this believes in giving power away is
:40:58. > :41:06.simply non-existent? She is allowed any future ones. The
:41:06. > :41:09.coalition government is working very well -- any views she wants.
:41:09. > :41:13.The Lib Dems think so. We have worked very successfully in
:41:13. > :41:17.coalition. It decided to put aside party differences and have a
:41:17. > :41:21.programme for government in the country's interest, in a contest of
:41:21. > :41:28.Wales and in the interest of the economy. She is entitled to her own
:41:28. > :41:31.opinions. Is she right? Quite wrong, completely wrong. You are talking
:41:31. > :41:35.about some of the things about delivering on devolution in a
:41:35. > :41:42.speech later today, focusing on the Cameron Commission that will look
:41:42. > :41:45.at the Assembly government, the powers -- Kalman. You talk about
:41:45. > :41:47.getting accountability, it you say there isn't accountability at the
:41:48. > :41:51.moment? Everybody appreciates under way in
:41:51. > :41:56.which the Welsh government is currently funded a large sum of
:41:56. > :41:59.money, �15 billion is simply handed over to the world government to
:41:59. > :42:04.spend how they see fit. They are not accountable for raising those
:42:04. > :42:08.funds. There has been a secret as to what the commission will be
:42:08. > :42:12.looking at in terms of the future of Wales and the future of
:42:12. > :42:19.devolution. He will be spending some time looking at accountability
:42:19. > :42:23.-- it will be. It will be looking at what the future of devolution
:42:23. > :42:27.holds for Wales. I did want to pre- empt too much of that because I
:42:27. > :42:31.know they rob people there are people purported to know what has
:42:31. > :42:38.been going on and have been blogging quite shamelessly. I am
:42:38. > :42:44.going to announce that properly in a bubble passion to art -- properly
:42:44. > :42:47.in the proper fashion to Parliament when we return. Now the number of
:42:47. > :42:51.MPs is being reduced there will be more list members and fewer
:42:51. > :42:56.constituency members? I will remain where I was when I
:42:56. > :43:05.was questioned on that in the House of Commons by a Plaid Cymru MP who
:43:05. > :43:10.put forward 31st past the post and the 30 list members and the shadow
:43:10. > :43:14.Secretary of State has nailed his colours to the mast and said he
:43:14. > :43:20.wants 61st past the post. Soon after supporting a fee was quite a
:43:20. > :43:23.surprise. At the moment all things considered we are going to look at
:43:23. > :43:27.the commission first and look at the shape of the electoral process
:43:27. > :43:31.at a later stage as I agreed with the First Minister when we agreed
:43:31. > :43:35.to decouple on the changes that were being made to the
:43:35. > :43:40.parliamentary boundaries. Smallest members would not be more
:43:40. > :43:46.accountable, would it? I will not have the discussion here and now
:43:46. > :43:50.but I am interested in the case being put forward and I can issue
:43:50. > :43:53.and will allow people to put their views forward. He talked about the
:43:53. > :43:58.big infrastructure projects that the UK government is bringing
:43:58. > :44:02.forward. One goes through your constituency, the high-speed rail
:44:02. > :44:07.link to which your constituents are by and large the post. Some are
:44:07. > :44:14.campaigning outside. Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, says
:44:14. > :44:21.opponents of the high-speed rail link are insane. Are you insane?
:44:21. > :44:23.I am not insane. Quite frankly the project that was put forward by the
:44:23. > :44:27.previous Labour government -- Labour government is something
:44:27. > :44:37.might objections to a one of on what is important is there has been
:44:37. > :44:38.
:44:38. > :44:41.a major consultation period -- are well known. He says you're all
:44:41. > :44:46.insane. A I am sure some of my colleagues already have their minds
:44:46. > :44:50.made up but the government will be looking at that consultation and
:44:50. > :44:56.the responses and making a decision in the light of those responses.
:44:56. > :44:59.The Prime Minister has always given me an insurance this is an open
:44:59. > :45:05.consultation. You could vote against the government and stay in
:45:05. > :45:12.office? I am in office because it Bannister has allowed me to
:45:12. > :45:16.Secretary of State for Wales -- to be Secretary of State for Wales.
:45:16. > :45:22.You want to carry on. I would love to carry on. I have never been
:45:22. > :45:26.prouder of the job and doing for Wales. Enjoy your week. That is it
:45:26. > :45:31.from Manchester for the moment. The conference runs into Wednesday.
:45:31. > :45:34.That is the end of the conference party season, at last.
:45:34. > :45:38.Last week, the big event was Carwyn Jones' programme for Government
:45:38. > :45:40.over the next five years. This week, all eyes in Cardiff Bay will be on
:45:40. > :45:43.Tuesday's announcement of the 2012/13 draft budget. This year,
:45:43. > :45:47.the First Minister doesn't have an outright majority so will need some
:45:47. > :45:50.form of opposition support to get his Government's plan through.
:45:50. > :45:57.I've been speaking to our political editor, Betsan Powys, who outlined
:45:57. > :46:02.the challenges facing the Welsh Government.
:46:02. > :46:06.There are some key points to be made this year. Labour doesn't have
:46:06. > :46:09.the numbers. They have got 30 members, they need one more to
:46:09. > :46:13.ensure the budget goes through so we talk about a draft budget, that
:46:13. > :46:15.is exactly what this will be because there will have to be some
:46:15. > :46:18.compromises, picking off one Assembly Member or bringing a group
:46:18. > :46:23.to get the numbers to get it through so they will be changes.
:46:24. > :46:26.The other key point is this is a purely Labour draft budget. There
:46:27. > :46:30.are some indications of how they plan to spend the money over the
:46:30. > :46:34.next couple of years but they were drawn up by Plaid Cymru and Labour
:46:34. > :46:38.so any changes will be because Labour have made those changes so
:46:38. > :46:42.that will be interesting to see what they have decided to change
:46:42. > :46:45.for this draft budget. When it comes to bargaining what
:46:45. > :46:49.can the other parties possibly expect?
:46:49. > :46:53.Well, we know where the money has gone down, it is in capital
:46:53. > :46:57.spending so we need to look at whether they change that balance
:46:57. > :47:00.between day-to-day spending, Revenue had big capital Betjeman --
:47:01. > :47:04.budget. Plaid Cymru have been arguing development spend has been
:47:04. > :47:08.suffering because there is capital in that. The Liberal Democrats
:47:08. > :47:12.would want to see more money going into education spending. That is
:47:12. > :47:16.there a number one priority. The Conservatives took about half the
:47:16. > :47:22.lot and they say in cash terms it is pretty much flak lining, in real
:47:22. > :47:26.terms that means the health budget is going down by �1 billion. They
:47:26. > :47:31.would be pressing for more expenditure on health. He is Carwyn
:47:31. > :47:35.Jones going to listen to? He only needs one person to come over and
:47:35. > :47:41.support his Budget. Or will there be a whole group that will agree
:47:41. > :47:45.some compromise and they know where they are heading already I suspect.
:47:45. > :47:48.If you went about the weekly shop yesterday I hope you remembered to
:47:48. > :47:51.take some reusable bags with you! If not, you probably had to pay for
:47:51. > :47:54.the bag as this weekend has seen the start of the compulsory carrier
:47:54. > :47:57.bag charge in Wales. Although many support the scheme, others says
:47:57. > :48:05.it's too confusing. We sent our reporter, Lee Madan, shopping in
:48:05. > :48:11.Cardiff Market. It is a small charge that is making
:48:11. > :48:16.a big impact. Shoppers in Wales now have to pay at least 5p for every
:48:16. > :48:19.single used carrier bag. The new law that is receiving eight mixed
:48:19. > :48:23.response in Cardiff market -- single-use. They should have done
:48:23. > :48:29.it a while ago. It is for the best. I get why they are doing it. It is
:48:29. > :48:38.mad. We are taxed on everything as it is without being taxed on
:48:38. > :48:42.carrier bags as well. It is good, only 5p. Really good. Perhaps some
:48:42. > :48:46.pensioners can't afford to pay for about like this. Shoppers can still
:48:47. > :48:51.avoid paying the charge if they buy certain exempt items, things like
:48:51. > :48:56.loose fruit and vegetables -- and vegetables. If others not exempt
:48:56. > :49:00.items are placed into the same carrier bag, pre-packaged fruit,
:49:00. > :49:04.the five p charge applies and it is down to individual retailers to
:49:04. > :49:08.make sure it is paid -- the 5p charge. People don't expect it when
:49:08. > :49:12.they turn up to the fruit and veg stall. People are quite aware of
:49:12. > :49:16.where the boundaries lie with the knack. It can be a bit confusing at
:49:16. > :49:22.times. We have had a lot of problems this morning with people
:49:22. > :49:27.wanting to pay 5p, but what is happening, the customers think we
:49:27. > :49:31.are having the money but we are not. It is fine, but if the product you
:49:31. > :49:34.are selling is expensive it is a bit cheeky asking for 5p for a
:49:34. > :49:39.carrier bag. So far it has been pretty good. A
:49:39. > :49:43.lot of people have been bringing their own backs lately. Russell
:49:43. > :49:48.runs a men's clothes shop and says he is refusing to ask customers to
:49:48. > :49:52.pay for bags. Absolutely not. I will continue not
:49:52. > :49:56.to charge. I will stand up in front of the judge and say I disagree
:49:56. > :50:00.with it, I don't see why you should find me, I don't think I am
:50:00. > :50:05.polluting the planet by supplying these bags and I know myself I have
:50:05. > :50:10.always got four or five that I used for multi-purpose things as ensure
:50:10. > :50:14.that of my customers do. Former Labour Assembly members sat on the
:50:14. > :50:20.committee in Cardiff Bay looking into the new law, a law she support
:50:20. > :50:25.in principle, but says has gone too far. When we were on the committee
:50:25. > :50:29.I think most of us had in our minds that we were talking about
:50:29. > :50:34.supermarkets in the main. Those are the big corporates. I do have some
:50:34. > :50:37.concern the way the policy has developed in its final form, and it
:50:37. > :50:43.does need tweaking and I would like the minister to have a look at some
:50:43. > :50:46.of those issues around butchers, fishmongers, and clothing shops.
:50:46. > :50:50.The Environment Minister is adamant that charge in its current form is
:50:50. > :50:55.here to stay. A lot of work has gone into working
:50:55. > :51:01.up this policy and there has been a lot of consultation with retailers,
:51:01. > :51:03.a lot of discussions. We are confident we have got it right.
:51:03. > :51:07.Overwhelmingly the people I have spoken to understand the need for
:51:07. > :51:11.the charge. They don't want to see our streets and countries that
:51:11. > :51:15.littered with plastic bags and understand the need to be less of a
:51:15. > :51:18.throwaway society. Shoppers and retailers have three months to get
:51:18. > :51:25.used to the charge. After that the wash government says it will take
:51:25. > :51:28.action against anyone not complying. Obviously is there is well thought
:51:28. > :51:31.refusal to enforce that must be dealt with and the penalties are
:51:31. > :51:36.there to make sure the charge is absurd.
:51:36. > :51:41.The message to shoppers is clear. If you did want to pray, bring your
:51:41. > :51:48.own backs with you. For those who don't, it is time to budget for an
:51:48. > :51:51.extra cost at the tail. -- if you don't want to pray -- pay.
:51:51. > :51:55.Iestyn Davies is the spokesman for the Federation of Small Businesses
:51:55. > :51:59.and joins me now. It might be too early to evaluate
:51:59. > :52:02.the long-term success of this policy but what have the businesses
:52:02. > :52:08.you represent been telling you about how it went on the first day?
:52:08. > :52:13.The vast majority are clearly supportive of any idea that stops
:52:13. > :52:16.waste, as the minister says it ends this throwaway culture but their
:52:16. > :52:20.feedback over 24 hours has been sometimes at the shop staff have
:52:20. > :52:24.been insulted and shouted at, sometimes they have been encouraged
:52:24. > :52:29.so very variable. Lots of people who I spoke to last
:52:29. > :52:32.week when preparing an item and be heard from the package complaining
:52:32. > :52:38.it is far too confusing a policy, people don't know when this charge
:52:38. > :52:42.will apply. Is that something you have had as the back? If you read
:52:42. > :52:48.the guidance, there is owed 70 two- page document, and they have
:52:48. > :52:51.changed in many ways. It is easy to say it I have less than 10
:52:51. > :52:56.employees so I am exempt from record-keeping but if you are a
:52:56. > :53:01.small trader and you have to keep records for VAT you have to do a
:53:01. > :53:08.judicious check on how many bags to tell the fact man. There are some
:53:08. > :53:12.grey areas -- the VAT man. We urge our members to be supportive and
:53:12. > :53:16.this has a positive impact on the environment. If it does that to the
:53:16. > :53:21.detriment of small businesses that wasn't intended.
:53:21. > :53:27.In terms of small businesses, the, it by Lorraine, she had big
:53:27. > :53:32.supermarkets in mind when this policy was first thought about. Are
:53:32. > :53:36.you disappointed it also applies to small businesses? Yes, I am. Small
:53:36. > :53:40.businesses by their nature are generally part of a more
:53:40. > :53:46.sustainable way of shopping. We believe in keeping trade local for
:53:47. > :53:49.so we would encourage people to travel less and walked to the local
:53:49. > :53:54.town centre and purchase what they need when they needed rather than
:53:54. > :53:58.filling up their trolley from a large supermarket. This is about
:53:58. > :54:02.saving the environment, not about saving local businesses. It is, and
:54:02. > :54:06.local businesses are key to reducing the carbon footprint
:54:06. > :54:10.intend of retail travel and the journeys we make more often in our
:54:10. > :54:14.cars to larger out-of-town centres. It is not a simple yes or no issue,
:54:14. > :54:17.it is very complicated and small businesses have an important part
:54:17. > :54:22.to play in creating a sustainable retail environment.
:54:22. > :54:27.Some would argue if the government was 100% behind getting rid of
:54:27. > :54:33.single used carrier bags then all bags, no matter what was being put
:54:33. > :54:37.in them, should be charged. The government which had, you have
:54:37. > :54:43.to remember, had support from all the opposition parties was intent
:54:43. > :54:46.on taking this route. We managed to negotiate exemptions for small
:54:46. > :54:50.businesses, bringing a charge down, but ultimately this is the way they
:54:50. > :54:55.went about it and we don't think it was misguided in what it intended
:54:55. > :55:00.to bring about but some of the implementation are slightly
:55:00. > :55:03.misguided. In terms of the enforcement aspect
:55:03. > :55:09.we know that companies who employ less than 10 people will not have
:55:09. > :55:13.to keep a record two. Provided they are not VAT-registered.
:55:13. > :55:21.I am sure you represent organisations which do have more
:55:21. > :55:25.than 10 employees. Why do you think the government has made it an
:55:25. > :55:29.enforcement part of this policy that people keep a record, however
:55:29. > :55:33.they are not compelled under the law to pass the money on?
:55:33. > :55:38.It is a difficult equation. You cannot use the word tax in the
:55:38. > :55:43.context of this carrier-bag Levy, levy being the operative word. It
:55:43. > :55:46.is a strange mix. We are trying to use a bit of carrot and stick. At
:55:46. > :55:50.the end of the day there are questions to say why not ban all
:55:50. > :55:55.forms of plastic carrier bags, promote biodegradable, it is very
:55:55. > :56:01.complex. However you go about it you will leave some people confused.
:56:01. > :56:04.We are very supportive of this as an initiative. Do you think the
:56:04. > :56:09.companies will pass the money on to good causes, they don't have to.
:56:10. > :56:16.I'm confident they will. The people we Speedie, local traders, are very
:56:16. > :56:21.community-minded. -- we speak to. They want to keep their money local.
:56:21. > :56:26.Speaking to the co-operative Retail Society earlier, they are looking