:00:54. > :01:04.Because the new feel-good factor mean we want more powers devolved
:01:04. > :01:04.
:01:04. > :25:58.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1493 seconds
:25:58. > :26:01.to Wales? We will discuss it with Me up a Welsh view of the eurozone
:26:01. > :26:06.crisis and what new powers for the bus government might have as a
:26:06. > :26:10.result of the Silk Commission. But we have to start with yesterday's
:26:10. > :26:14.event in the Rugby World Cup. After the flight was put up over Number
:26:14. > :26:18.Ten Downing Street in London, and with thousands watching it in the
:26:18. > :26:23.Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, it was a game of ups and downs but
:26:23. > :26:27.sadly the results going fronts's whereby one point. After the match,
:26:27. > :26:35.in a still noisy Millennium Stadium, the First Minister Carwyn Jones
:26:35. > :26:45.gave our reporter his reaction to the game. The game was ruined
:26:45. > :26:46.
:26:46. > :26:51.really by what I thought was a harsh sending off for Sam Warburton.
:26:52. > :26:55.From our point of view, we have got to be proud of our players, they
:26:55. > :26:58.came close to winning against typical days and I think their best
:26:58. > :27:02.days are ahead of them. Disappointing but light spilled
:27:02. > :27:06.from this. A your message to the boys who fought bravely? Your
:27:06. > :27:12.nation is behind you, very proud of what to have done, it will be
:27:12. > :27:16.difficult to lift your spirits for next Saturday but we will be behind
:27:16. > :27:20.you again for a start and Cardiff council have just told us they are
:27:20. > :27:24.in discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union and was government about a
:27:24. > :27:30.possibility of a homecoming event. I was government spokesperson say
:27:30. > :27:34.they are currently considering the most appropriate way to recognise
:27:34. > :27:37.the great achievements -- a government spokesperson. Wales will
:27:37. > :27:40.play Australia in the third-place play-off.
:27:40. > :27:46.Hundreds of families in Wales who might have been wrongly charged
:27:46. > :27:50.care home fees for their elderly relatives have been told they could
:27:50. > :27:54.be paid back in three years if they are refunded. There are many had
:27:54. > :27:59.been waiting for several years and are angry that there is a backlog
:27:59. > :28:05.in claims still not cleared. Our reporter has been to meet one
:28:05. > :28:11.family affected in the Rhondda. was starting to get frail on her
:28:11. > :28:20.legs. She was starting to fall about and usually when she fell,
:28:20. > :28:23.she banged her head. She had quite a few nasty falls at home. One have
:28:23. > :28:27.had children decided she needed professional help around the clock
:28:27. > :28:31.and did not realise how expensive it would be. Beryl's sons are
:28:31. > :28:36.completely happy with each care she received here are believed it
:28:36. > :28:43.should have been free. In total, they spent more than �40,000 on
:28:43. > :28:48.costs. Money they had been trying to claim back since 2006. If Beryl
:28:48. > :28:51.had received an assessment by the NHS, her family's lawyer is
:28:51. > :28:55.confident she would have been recommended for ongoing health care.
:28:55. > :29:00.That means her place in the home would have been paid for by the
:29:00. > :29:04.health service. Because this assessment never happened, the
:29:04. > :29:11.local authority means tested her instead and decided that her family
:29:11. > :29:21.had to play. Quite a big surprise because it meant that we had to
:29:21. > :29:22.
:29:22. > :29:25.sell my mother's house to cover the cost. The weights are among
:29:25. > :29:29.hundreds of families waiting to find out if they are entitled to
:29:29. > :29:32.have their money back. We have families to have been waiting a
:29:32. > :29:38.number of years and families that are very upset because nobody told
:29:38. > :29:42.them about the possibility that their relative may have been
:29:42. > :29:48.eligible for health care. Family who believe they have wrongly paid
:29:48. > :29:53.fees can challenge that decision. However, if the costs date back to
:29:53. > :29:58.before April 2003, then the claims should have been made by the end of
:29:58. > :30:02.2009. One authority, Powys Health Board is now responsible for
:30:02. > :30:07.looking into those historical claims for the whole of Wales.
:30:07. > :30:13.Alongside more recent claims, there is a backlog of around 2000 cases.
:30:13. > :30:16.It says it could take a further three years to get through that.
:30:16. > :30:22.The longer these cases take, the more interest is going to have to
:30:22. > :30:25.be paid and it is detrimental to the public purse. I think it is
:30:25. > :30:30.also something that is very important. This is not compensation,
:30:31. > :30:34.this is money that should have never have been paid in the first
:30:34. > :30:40.place. It is been said that the world government has not acted
:30:40. > :30:44.quickly enough. They have failed to take account of the situation which
:30:44. > :30:49.many families find themselves in and they have failed to put in
:30:49. > :30:52.place systems to deal quickly with those claims which are fairly
:30:52. > :30:56.straightforward and also to deal with the more complex cases in good
:30:56. > :31:00.time. I think the Minister needs to get a grip and she needs to sort
:31:00. > :31:04.this out quickly and much more quickly than the three years we are
:31:04. > :31:08.told it will take. The Health Minister turned down our
:31:08. > :31:12.request for an interview put in a statement, the Welsh Government
:31:13. > :31:20.said it recognises the concerns that have been raised. It has Powys
:31:20. > :31:24.Health Board is unsure of providing an equitable review of cases. It
:31:24. > :31:27.said that cases are being dealt with in order of when the
:31:27. > :31:33.application was made and says some payments have already been
:31:33. > :31:39.processed. But for the family and many like them, the uncertainty
:31:39. > :31:45.continues. It is frustrating. We keep on hoping we will have a
:31:45. > :31:49.cheque for Christmas but we don't know which Christmas!
:31:49. > :31:53.Wales might be shivering as it is buffeted by the chill of economic
:31:53. > :31:56.winds but events 1,500 miles away could make the financial
:31:56. > :32:01.temperature here really plunge. The Politics Show has been to Brussels
:32:01. > :32:04.to take the view of Welsh MEPs efforts to stave off the debt
:32:05. > :32:13.crisis in Greece and the possible consequences here at home if the
:32:13. > :32:17.crisis spreads. The �200 billion rescue package for
:32:17. > :32:19.Europe's banks... If men of Europe's biggest banks do not have
:32:19. > :32:22.the reserves of capital to of salt losses.
:32:22. > :32:26.He is not the politicians who will decide this, but the people on the
:32:27. > :32:30.streets. Tall of defaults, a Euro meltdown,
:32:30. > :32:34.bail-out funds running into trillions of euro possibly. It
:32:34. > :32:37.might seem some distance away from the economic problems Wales is
:32:37. > :32:43.currently facing but Wales is highly dependent on trade with
:32:43. > :32:50.eurozone countries. The nation's four MEPs occupy a pretty good
:32:50. > :32:54.vantage to justify a natural situation on the Continent. Debt-
:32:54. > :32:59.laden Greece which has seen so much resistance to austerity programmes
:32:59. > :33:04.is the immediate priority to eurozone leaders. They fear the
:33:04. > :33:09.market could be spooked if I fail to shore up the Greek economy.
:33:09. > :33:15.Conservative MEP case when then is a former investment banker. Greece
:33:15. > :33:19.is only 2.5% of the euro GDP so the entire debt is very small compared
:33:19. > :33:24.to the entire eurozone. We need to keep things in proportion. The
:33:24. > :33:27.reality is, the market to pay for the bonds and by those in the
:33:27. > :33:31.marketplace, those investors are really worried that if they cannot
:33:31. > :33:36.fix Greece, how well they fix the big economies of Italy and Spain if
:33:36. > :33:40.they run into difficulties? fear is that if the confidence in
:33:40. > :33:46.Europe's financial markets is sapped, economies such as Wales are
:33:46. > :33:51.vulnerable. It is a great concern because if problems in the eurozone
:33:51. > :33:55.have an impact on Wales, Welsh businesses rely on 60% of trade
:33:55. > :33:59.with Europe so if the eurozone has problems, then the Welsh economy
:33:59. > :34:04.will do as well. The Welsh economy is dependent on the rest of Europe
:34:04. > :34:10.and we have got a situation now in Wales where we have got 22%
:34:10. > :34:13.unemployment amongst young people. If the situation spirals out of
:34:13. > :34:18.control, then there will be a lot more unemployment and that of
:34:18. > :34:22.course is going to impact. It is critical that the leaders do get
:34:23. > :34:26.this right in the eurozone. others come at it is time to admit
:34:26. > :34:30.that the single currency is a disaster and to stop spending
:34:30. > :34:33.risking and borrowing more to save it. You is not the politicians to
:34:33. > :34:38.decide this, but the people on the streets and the markets. They are
:34:38. > :34:42.throwing money at it. Almost like saying to an alcoholic, we can fix
:34:42. > :34:48.this by giving you more alcohol. This will not work and it is
:34:48. > :34:52.bonkers to think that it will. I think it will fail big time. For
:34:52. > :34:55.people in the UK, they will be effective. An alternative is for
:34:55. > :34:59.eurozone leaders to allow Greece to default on much of its debts in an
:35:00. > :35:03.orderly manner. European banks would then need cash injections to
:35:03. > :35:10.prevent banking system seizing up as investors in Greece might lose
:35:10. > :35:15.as much as four fifths of their investment. It will go up from the
:35:15. > :35:19.20% to, I suspect, 60 or 80% in the future. But get Greece to a
:35:19. > :35:24.sustainable level of debt but that means the banks to own that debt
:35:24. > :35:27.will take heavy losses so we need to capitalise the banks up again to
:35:27. > :35:31.make sure that an orderly deport of Greece does not have a catastrophic
:35:31. > :35:35.effect which would be far worse than the Lehman Brothers collapse
:35:35. > :35:40.of 2008. They have realised they need to deal with the Greek
:35:40. > :35:44.situation, put in place a stability mechanism of such a large extent
:35:44. > :35:48.that they can deal with any issues that might arise in the future.
:35:48. > :35:52.They also realise that we need greater economic governments across
:35:52. > :35:56.Europe to make sure this does not happen again. What we are looking
:35:56. > :35:59.at the moment our proposals on growth because a lack of growth in
:35:59. > :36:08.the eurozone is another crisis we are facing. The eurozone is not
:36:08. > :36:11.known for decisive nest -- the EU is not known for decisiveness. The
:36:11. > :36:16.outcome could be very bleak. Should the Welsh Government take
:36:16. > :36:20.more responsibility for raising the money it spends and should further
:36:20. > :36:24.powers be devolved to Wales? Two questions for those appointed to
:36:24. > :36:32.the Silk Commission. The Welsh Secretary Cheryl Gillan named Paul
:36:32. > :36:35.Silk as chair of the commission. He will be joined by representatives
:36:35. > :36:40.of the four main parties and two independent members. With the
:36:40. > :36:46.economy struggling and fears about jobs, our political editor asked
:36:46. > :36:50.Paul Silk whether some people will whether ask why they are tinkering
:36:50. > :36:55.with the constitution? That is probably not a question for me.
:36:55. > :37:00.There have been asked to do a particular job -- I have been asked
:37:00. > :37:03.to. We will do that to the best of our ability. But does not mean that
:37:03. > :37:07.one is not aware of the context in which people in Wales see
:37:07. > :37:10.themselves. Of course, colleagues who are members of the commission
:37:10. > :37:16.and come from political parties will be much more aware of that
:37:16. > :37:20.perhaps than I hum. And my to speak to True Wales? I would be
:37:20. > :37:28.absolutely happy to speak to anybody who has a voice inside
:37:28. > :37:31.Wales, True Wales certainly does and proper, authentic agenda that
:37:31. > :37:35.they want to pursue, yes, of course we should speak to them for stopped
:37:35. > :37:41.during the in the studio from True Wales is Rachel Banner along with
:37:41. > :37:46.Cathy Owens, one of the leading campaigners for Yes For Wales.
:37:46. > :37:55.Paul Silk was quite non-committal about his answer, why it more
:37:55. > :37:59.constitutional navel-gazing? reason I help win the Yes campaign
:37:59. > :38:03.was to provide a legislative programme as well as the programme
:38:03. > :38:07.in government and I am looking to them to focus on delivering for the
:38:07. > :38:10.people of Wales, to really make a difference to people's lives and
:38:10. > :38:14.for people here in Cardiff Bay to scrutinise the world's governments
:38:14. > :38:17.to make sure they do that. That is perfectly reasonable at the same
:38:17. > :38:22.time to have some sensible, clever people looking at how the balance
:38:22. > :38:24.of power is shifting in the UK. It is happening anyway. It might be
:38:25. > :38:28.taken out of our control so let's make sure we can get the best
:38:28. > :38:35.advantage of it for the people of Wales. In the March referendum,
:38:35. > :38:39.every local authority apart from one voted in favour of more powers
:38:39. > :38:47.for the Assembly. There is an appetite for devolution in Wales.
:38:47. > :38:52.We were told during the referendum campaign... We will come back to
:38:52. > :38:56.that. Statistics now show that there were more people in favour of
:38:56. > :39:01.devolution in Wales in this referendum compared to the last one.
:39:01. > :39:05.That is not in doubt, is it? That is true to say but also it is
:39:05. > :39:12.important to tell the truth during referendum campaigns and that did
:39:12. > :39:16.not happen, the public was misled about the tax issue. There are
:39:16. > :39:20.strong arguments but we never had a chance for that debate during the
:39:20. > :39:25.campaign and there need to be questions asked about why tax was
:39:25. > :39:27.put on the ballot paper, why it was denied that tax powers were given
:39:27. > :39:33.on the yes but given the coalition government in Westminster had
:39:33. > :39:36.already said there would be a commission on tax in the event of
:39:36. > :39:41.yes vote. Why is it that politicians were denying that?
:39:41. > :39:44.don't think there was a grand deception. There was an explicit
:39:44. > :39:50.promise in the campaign ahead of the March referendum that this
:39:50. > :39:54.would not lead to tax bearing powers. There will be a higher
:39:55. > :39:58.degree from the Rachel Banner campaign. Hang on, it was clear
:39:58. > :40:05.what we were fighting for and it was not to do with tax raising
:40:05. > :40:07.powers. The but it was sad that -- it was said at the time... By we
:40:08. > :40:12.knew what we were fighting for, it was about the legislative programme.
:40:12. > :40:16.Now it is clear we what the politicians to focus on that and
:40:16. > :40:21.make changes that help the people of Wales. At the same time, it was
:40:21. > :40:28.very clear that there was going to be a change. We were not
:40:28. > :40:33.campaigning to set the balance of power forever. And the coalition
:40:33. > :40:37.said they would talk about different fiscal powers. You have
:40:37. > :40:43.to be... We would rather be talking about that than not talking about
:40:43. > :40:46.it. We have to be having serious responsibilities. Can I ask you
:40:46. > :40:53.about something you said in the campaign in March, you said
:40:53. > :40:57.politicians asking... Why should people have any confidence in a
:40:57. > :41:03.government with a current educational spending record? How
:41:03. > :41:06.can our country's economic flourish and so on because we have got
:41:06. > :41:09.under-investment in schools and universities? Surely if you're of
:41:09. > :41:19.the opinion that Wales is underfunded, you would like to see
:41:19. > :41:25.a mechanism where more money can be raised? What the yes campaign told
:41:25. > :41:32.us or politicians told us, we would get the �300 million payment in the
:41:32. > :41:36.result of yes vote. We are not seeing that Barnet deficit dealt
:41:36. > :41:41.with. We knew it would not be forthcoming that what we are seeing
:41:41. > :41:48.is the prospect of higher taxes. We are heading towards a moment of
:41:48. > :41:51.severe economic crisis and we are be expected to pay more taxes. How
:41:51. > :41:55.will the Government raised all that money from the people of Wales? We
:41:55. > :41:58.are already hard pressed. Have they gone about this the wrong way?
:41:58. > :42:03.Should the Barnett formula be looked at first before tinkering
:42:03. > :42:09.with taxation, borrowing powers, further devolution? I think this is
:42:09. > :42:13.all about focusing on the process, really. I think there's so much
:42:13. > :42:17.more that politicians here can be focusing on. Let's make sure that
:42:17. > :42:22.they are focused on delivering change. We are in a difficult
:42:22. > :42:26.economic position. We have got some problems and in some areas we are
:42:26. > :42:30.doing very well. Let's focus on that. That does not mean that we
:42:30. > :42:33.cannot also have conversations. Yes, we need to deal with the Barnett
:42:33. > :42:37.formula and those are ongoing with the Treasury as I understand. It
:42:37. > :42:39.would be good if we could get some fairer funding settlements for
:42:39. > :42:46.Wales but I don't think we should sake let's not talk about other
:42:46. > :42:49.things because, these decisions would be taken out of our hands.
:42:49. > :42:53.The reading between the lines of what you are saying, you don't
:42:53. > :42:58.think this commission is important? It might be taken over by events.
:42:58. > :43:02.It is important we are having these discussions at senior levels and
:43:03. > :43:07.there are some important people doing this. Sue Essex is brilliant,
:43:07. > :43:10.but at the same time the Welsh Government here and those who
:43:10. > :43:14.scrutinise it should be focusing on delivering for the people of Wales
:43:14. > :43:18.and I think they are an I am quite pleased to see the legislative
:43:18. > :43:24.programme alongside a government programme that is designed to
:43:24. > :43:28.deliver jobs, better services for Wales because that is what they are
:43:28. > :43:34.interested in. You have been critical of the bus government and
:43:34. > :43:38.the welcome back Assembly Members, -- the Welsh Government. Do you
:43:38. > :43:45.think better outcomes for the people of Wales, if they have got
:43:45. > :43:49.�50 million to spend, things might not be as good as when they have to
:43:49. > :43:56.account for the money they spend -- 15 million? I think it will be hard
:43:56. > :44:02.to raise that money from the people of Wales. What I would like to
:44:02. > :44:08.see... It will be a degree of that money. We get �9 billion more from
:44:08. > :44:13.the UK Treasury than we pay in. We can use that money and I think the
:44:13. > :44:17.Assembly could be doing far more to improve economic development in
:44:17. > :44:24.Wales to insure certain things improve. Tax powers are not the
:44:24. > :44:29.answer to that for. We are only a few months into the new settlement
:44:29. > :44:32.granted in the referendum, should that not be given time to bed in
:44:32. > :44:36.before we think about more devolution? Are you suggesting we
:44:36. > :44:40.should not discuss these things? We have the Welsh Government here that
:44:40. > :44:50.have the tools we have given it in terms of images dizzied programme
:44:50. > :44:51.
:44:51. > :44:56.alongside the Government programme. -- in terms of the legislative
:44:57. > :45:02.programme. Fiscal policy is very important. This is a serious issue
:45:02. > :45:05.about the truth. That referendum was fought partly on the tax issue,
:45:05. > :45:09.separate legal jurisdiction is on its way as well. Politicians during
:45:09. > :45:14.that time, they promised that these things would not happen. We had it
:45:14. > :45:20.over and over again, these denials. There is an issue with our
:45:20. > :45:23.democracy. Can I ask a quick question. Paul Silk said there
:45:23. > :45:31.would be a voice for True Wales, will you engage? We certainly
:45:31. > :45:33.wealth. Lot of people can engage with this process because it