:00:41. > :00:44.Later in the programme: A shake up in organ donation is on
:00:44. > :00:47.the cards as the Government prepares to publish new plans this
:00:47. > :00:57.week and I'll be joined by two members of parliament to discuss if
:00:57. > :00:57.
:00:57. > :38:06.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2228 seconds
:38:06. > :38:10.there should be less of them Good afternoon.
:38:10. > :38:16.Coming up: Cuts in MPs and broadcasting.
:38:16. > :38:21.Plans to make wills the first part of the UK to adopt consent for
:38:22. > :38:26.organ donation is to be published this week. It is a radical way of
:38:26. > :38:33.helping the 300 or more people waiting for organ transplants in
:38:33. > :38:38.Wales at any one time. Voices are warning that the move will not work.
:38:38. > :38:43.Few would oppose a policy to maximise the number of organs made
:38:43. > :38:46.available to patients desperate for transplants. Welsh government plans
:38:46. > :38:52.for consent to be published this weekend are intended to do just
:38:52. > :38:55.that. They come at a time when a debate on people automatically
:38:55. > :39:01.being on the donor register until they decide to come off has been
:39:01. > :39:05.gathering pace. At first glance, the issue of presumed consent
:39:05. > :39:12.appears simple. Making everyone an organ donor unless they choose to
:39:12. > :39:16.opt out would make more transplants and more lives saved. But the
:39:16. > :39:19.transfer -- practicalities of presumed consent might not be so
:39:19. > :39:23.straightforward, and that is before we consider religious or
:39:23. > :39:28.philosophical concerns. The Welsh government is expected to announce
:39:28. > :39:32.a softer form of presumed consent meaning relatives would be
:39:32. > :39:38.consulted about using loved one's organs in the highly dramatic
:39:38. > :39:43.circumstances of their death. of the real problems I have got
:39:43. > :39:46.with presumed consent is that it undermines trust. I do not mind
:39:46. > :39:50.moving to a more presumptive attitude because almost everyone is
:39:51. > :39:53.in favour of organ donation. It is reasonable to have a presumptive
:39:53. > :40:00.attitude when you discuss this with relatives in the immediate
:40:00. > :40:03.aftermath, or sometimes be for a the machine is switched off. If it
:40:03. > :40:08.is presumed consent there is an immediate suspicion. That is why I
:40:08. > :40:17.put it in for a debate in the House of Commons. I want to spend half an
:40:17. > :40:22.hour explaining in a considered way why this will not work. It does not
:40:22. > :40:26.work, it does not deliver but a fraction more organs. What we do
:40:26. > :40:30.need is to understand what will work. People are dying because we
:40:30. > :40:34.do not have an effective system is. The Welsh government is confident
:40:34. > :40:38.there is widespread support for Wales to lead the way and become
:40:38. > :40:43.the first part of the UK to introduced presumed consent.
:40:43. > :40:47.will get an increase to up to 30% in organs which was sold a lot of
:40:47. > :40:52.issues for people who are waiting for a transplant. We are losing one
:40:52. > :40:57.person every week here in Wales, and that is a huge amount of people
:40:57. > :41:01.who are dying. We need to give hope, I believe the Welsh government have
:41:01. > :41:05.got this absolutely right and they are progressive. I think the rest
:41:06. > :41:11.of the UK will follow. The saw signs last read in Scotland that
:41:11. > :41:15.that was the case. Politicians are urged to come up with policies that
:41:15. > :41:19.make a real difference to people's lives. Anything that increases
:41:19. > :41:24.organ donations would do that. This week we should have a better idea
:41:24. > :41:28.how the Welsh government plans to address some of the fears of some
:41:28. > :41:33.of those who doubt presumed consent will have the effect that some
:41:33. > :41:36.people want. The White Paper on introducing an
:41:36. > :41:43.opt-out system for organ donation is expected this week. A Bill could
:41:43. > :41:46.then go to -- forward to the Assembly next year. The world
:41:46. > :41:56.government told us debates and consultations in Wales have
:41:56. > :42:01.
:42:01. > :42:05.convinced us the public is ready to Margaret Haig Thomas, Viscountess
:42:05. > :42:09.Rhondda was a leading Welsh suffragette. She fought for women
:42:09. > :42:14.to sit and vote in the House of Lords just after the First World
:42:14. > :42:17.War. The Lords prevented her to take her father's seat, but friends
:42:17. > :42:24.to Baroness Gale of Blaenrhondda the portrait of a Viscountess
:42:24. > :42:27.Rhondda is now sitting proudly in the Houses of Parliament.
:42:27. > :42:32.Hanging with kings and queens of the past, a newly acquired portrait
:42:32. > :42:37.of a powerful Welsh lady is now on display in the Lords gallery. A
:42:37. > :42:41.lady who was forbidden to taking her rightful place in the House of
:42:41. > :42:45.Lords. Despite inheriting her father's title, Viscountess Rhondda
:42:45. > :42:49.could never sit in the House of Lords. So her journey to this place
:42:49. > :42:57.has been a long, hard struggle. Baroness Gale of Blaenrhondda has
:42:57. > :43:02.always been a fan of the by Countess. I am so pleased we have a
:43:02. > :43:07.portrait, at last of Viscountess Rhondda. She inherited the title
:43:07. > :43:11.from her father. With special permission from King George the
:43:11. > :43:17.fifth because she was the only child. When she did, she then tried
:43:17. > :43:22.to take her seat in the house of Lords. She went to a sub-committee
:43:22. > :43:26.to the House of Lords, a committee of privileges, and the six men who
:43:26. > :43:30.sat on the committee, five voted in favour of her coming. There was
:43:30. > :43:35.great rejoicing at the thought of a woman in a house of Lords for the
:43:35. > :43:40.first time. But the Lord Chancellor did not like this idea at all. So
:43:40. > :43:48.he convened a another committee of 30 men, and guess what? They said
:43:48. > :43:53.no, she cannot come in. She never got to sit here. But she fought the
:43:53. > :43:57.battle for women. She certainly broke down barriers for women.
:43:57. > :44:04.Outside politics she was very active in the business community.
:44:04. > :44:08.She inherited her father's wealth and business interests. She was one
:44:08. > :44:16.of the very few women who was successful in business. And she had
:44:16. > :44:21.a magazine as well? She did. She put a lot of money into that
:44:21. > :44:27.magazine, it was a feminist magazine. It was her journal where
:44:27. > :44:32.she could express or her views on women's rights and so on. She was
:44:32. > :44:37.quite a controversial character, I believe. She divorced her husband,
:44:37. > :44:42.she set up home with a female lover, it is thought. It must have been
:44:42. > :44:48.quite something, caused quite a stir. She was obviously a very
:44:48. > :44:52.determined woman. She did unconventional things from the time
:44:52. > :44:57.- work for the time, like having a divorce. Obviously, her Wells
:44:57. > :45:04.allowed to to do all that. Some books you read about to say she
:45:04. > :45:09.lived with a close woman friend at that time. Probably a bit unusual.
:45:09. > :45:14.Lots of things about her, fighting for equal rights for women, equal
:45:14. > :45:17.pay, all issues that women are still fighting for. Are there
:45:17. > :45:24.things that she actually achieved in her lifetime when it came to
:45:24. > :45:29.women's rights? What I think she did was lay the groundwork, if you
:45:29. > :45:34.like. She broke down barriers, that is for certain. Certainly in
:45:34. > :45:42.politics and for women in the House of Lords, she broke down barriers
:45:43. > :45:47.for women like me. Her father was from the valley. She couldn't come
:45:48. > :45:53.into the House of Lords. My father was a coal miner and worked in a
:45:53. > :45:59.colliery which her father owned. I feel because of her, I am in the
:45:59. > :46:03.House of Lords today. Do feel a certain attachment to her? I do. I
:46:03. > :46:09.feel I have a lot of links to her, a lot of contrasts and a lot of
:46:09. > :46:15.similarities. She was the daughter of a very wealthy man. She had all
:46:15. > :46:20.the privileges one could imagine. And I was, if you like, the exact
:46:20. > :46:24.opposite. But we still believed in the same things. When I read about
:46:24. > :46:29.the thing she believed in and what I believe in, there are
:46:29. > :46:35.similarities. Am very pleased we have got this portrait of
:46:35. > :46:41.Viscountess Rhondda so everyone can see what a wonderful woman she was.
:46:41. > :46:43.The Lords committee paid �7,000 for the painting. Today's Lords and
:46:44. > :46:47.Ladies have the pleasure of viewing this painting from now until
:46:47. > :46:50.Christmas. We have heard MPs discussing cuts
:46:50. > :46:57.in public spending but they are also discussing a cut in their
:46:57. > :47:00.numbers. The UK government wants to cut the number of MPs to 600. They
:47:00. > :47:05.would each constituency to have more or less the same number of
:47:05. > :47:09.voters at the next general election. Wales could lose 10 of its 40 MPs.
:47:09. > :47:13.The Boundary Commission for England has redrawn the map for that
:47:13. > :47:18.country and we're expecting the Welsh proposals in the new year.
:47:18. > :47:26.What can we expect? We can discuss that with Owen Smith and Alun
:47:26. > :47:33.Cairns. It is said, Owen Smith, that Wales is over-represented in
:47:33. > :47:37.Westminster. That is a new view. It is not something we have heard from
:47:37. > :47:43.the Conservative Party over many years. It is something they have
:47:43. > :47:49.come to recently, and it is because it is in their party's own interest
:47:49. > :47:55.to reduce the number of MPs across the UK. We will see a 7% reduction
:47:55. > :48:00.in MPs across the UK. It will hit - - hit Labour and Liberals
:48:00. > :48:06.disproportionately. The vast majority of Welsh MPs will be
:48:06. > :48:10.Labour Party MPs. If you have constituencies with equal weight,
:48:10. > :48:15.it is something like within 5% of 75,000 voters, surely that is good
:48:15. > :48:20.for democracy? I think the reverse is the case. This is not an
:48:20. > :48:25.argument we have heard from anyone for many years. We have not been a
:48:25. > :48:30.democracy weather has been privacy attached with mathematical accuracy,
:48:30. > :48:35.and mathematical exactitude. We have had an interest in making
:48:35. > :48:38.politics closer to people. Making politics identified with people.
:48:38. > :48:43.Unfortunately, we will end up with constituencies that are bigger and
:48:43. > :48:48.people do not identify and the same sense. Particularly in Wales where
:48:48. > :48:56.we have a sense of Locale and an attachment to our local identities.
:48:56. > :49:00.I feel it will be less democratic. The accusation is that this is an
:49:00. > :49:05.attack on Labour, gerrymandering of the boundaries to help the
:49:05. > :49:10.Conservative cause. It seems that his strongest argument is that this
:49:10. > :49:14.is a new idea. It is not. In 2004 Michael Howard first proposed the
:49:14. > :49:18.changes to the number of MPs across the UK. Particularly in Wales
:49:18. > :49:22.relating to the powers of the Assembly. The Prime Minister talks
:49:22. > :49:27.about cutting the cost of politics, reducing the number of MPs to 600,
:49:27. > :49:33.and therefore when we look at the detail around that you take a
:49:34. > :49:38.constituency that has some 39 of 40,000 voters. My constituency has
:49:38. > :49:44.72,000 voters. Why should a voter in Barry have that the vote count
:49:44. > :49:47.less than someone else? It does not make sense there for their needs to
:49:47. > :49:53.be a fair distribution of Members of Parliament. On the partisan
:49:53. > :49:57.point, I'm am naturally worried. My Conservative colleagues in
:49:57. > :50:01.Westminster are worried about their boundaries. But we have all voted
:50:01. > :50:06.for it because we think it is the right thing to do. You say you have
:50:06. > :50:09.all voted for it, but Iain Duncan Smith has apparently warned David
:50:10. > :50:14.Cameron about the party teetering on the brink of further mutiny
:50:14. > :50:20.because not all Conservative MPs are happy about this. I did not
:50:21. > :50:25.know anything about that tittle- tattle. Conservative MPs are
:50:25. > :50:31.naturally concerned about their own personal role, but they recognise
:50:31. > :50:37.the bigger picture and that is about making votes equal. At the
:50:37. > :50:42.moment it is not. My voters do not have the same power as other areas.
:50:42. > :50:46.You speak to Conservative backbench cot -- colleagues, a lot of them
:50:46. > :50:50.left high rate paid jobs for a seat in Parliament. Will they think, I
:50:50. > :50:55.might go back to the city? They might go back to where they came
:50:55. > :51:00.from in any field. I do not know why you suggest the city. The
:51:00. > :51:03.Conservative Party has a diverse nature. The parliamentary party has
:51:03. > :51:09.voted for it. It was in the manifesto to reduce the number of
:51:09. > :51:14.MPs by 10%. There has been a slight adjustment to that, but the bottom
:51:14. > :51:19.line is about making the whole of the United Kingdom equal in terms
:51:19. > :51:26.of numbers. It is not right that my voter in Barry does not have the
:51:26. > :51:34.same amount of influence as someone in Pontypridd. Peter Kane has said
:51:34. > :51:38.new boundaries might bring together towns that were in the past rivals.
:51:38. > :51:43.What does rivalry have to do with boundary changes? I think he is
:51:43. > :51:48.making the point that in Wales we have a sense of local identity.
:51:48. > :51:54.Whether it is on the rugby field, are in politics. That would be true
:51:54. > :51:59.of England as well? People have often said we are too parochial in
:51:59. > :52:02.Wales. I think it is a positive that we have a clear sense of our
:52:02. > :52:07.local identities. The point he is really making is that
:52:07. > :52:12.geographically Wales, and in particular the South Wales valleys
:52:12. > :52:22.have a certain sense of what they are about. You will end up with
:52:22. > :52:36.
:52:36. > :52:41.communities that traditionally have sat easy together having problems.
:52:42. > :52:51.What about a scenario where made wills would be covered by only two
:52:52. > :52:54.
:52:54. > :52:59.constituencies? -- made a Wales. That is part of the difficulty now.
:52:59. > :53:02.My surgery work is absolutely phenomenal. When I talk to other
:53:02. > :53:08.members of parliament with smaller constituencies, it seems to me they
:53:08. > :53:15.do not have that same pressure. It is about balancing it out and make
:53:15. > :53:17.sure that every individual's vote counts the same way. Labour are
:53:17. > :53:21.against this because they're going to lose out more than the
:53:21. > :53:25.Conservatives? We are against it because we think it is
:53:25. > :53:30.gerrymandering. Yes, we're going to lose out by a greater degree and
:53:30. > :53:34.that is what the Tories have designed it for. Politicians and
:53:34. > :53:39.opinion formers should take a stronger stance on the threat to
:53:39. > :53:43.English language broadcasting in Wales. That is according to Menna
:53:43. > :53:46.Richards. Speaking at the Welsh political archive annual lecture in
:53:46. > :53:49.Aberystwyth on Friday she said she understood why it most of the
:53:49. > :53:53.recent debate surrounding broadcasting have focused on S4C,
:53:53. > :53:57.but she was surprised how little attention had been given to cuts in
:53:57. > :54:03.English-language programming. Because the whole of the BBC has
:54:03. > :54:06.had to cut back and make savings, BBC Wales has been forced to cut
:54:06. > :54:11.100 hours of programming in English language over the last five years.
:54:11. > :54:16.What is sad about it is that the programmes we have lost have
:54:16. > :54:20.included comedy and drama about Wales for Welsh audiences. I think
:54:20. > :54:24.people have been preoccupied by the future of S4C, and understandably
:54:24. > :54:27.so. But perhaps people have not realised what has been going on
:54:27. > :54:32.behind the scenes of English- language television programmes. The
:54:32. > :54:36.people who make those programmes at BBC and ITV do a fantastic job, but
:54:36. > :54:41.I think that audiences in Wales deserve more output, more
:54:41. > :54:49.programmes that tell them something about their lives, that reflect
:54:49. > :54:53.their interests. Owen Smith and Alun Cairns are still with me. Have
:54:53. > :54:58.we lost sight of any problems regarding English language
:54:58. > :55:04.broadcasting because of the focus which has been put on a S4C's
:55:04. > :55:08.trials and tribulations? I haven't. It has been one of the things I
:55:08. > :55:11.have consistently raised in the House of Commons. Slightly ironic
:55:11. > :55:17.that Menna Richards should be raising it because it has been on
:55:17. > :55:21.her watch that we have seen this dramatic diminution in the volume
:55:21. > :55:25.of programmes about Wales in English. She is right to
:55:25. > :55:31.highlighted. We do have a contemporary art stand in Wales, we
:55:31. > :55:36.have less current affairs, less drama, certainly less drama made in
:55:36. > :55:43.Wales. The danger is with S4C being folded into the BBC is that you
:55:43. > :55:48.will see form -- for good reasons and that perhaps, greater
:55:48. > :55:51.concentration on Welsh-language programmes. She might say, how do
:55:51. > :55:56.you expect us to commission and broadcast more programmes when our
:55:56. > :56:01.funding is being cut? Yes, the funding is being cut. But choices
:56:01. > :56:05.are being taken. Her predecessor has been in the forefront of
:56:05. > :56:09.highlighting this, not just recently, but four, five years ago,
:56:09. > :56:15.this trajectory of fewer English language programmes was very clear.
:56:15. > :56:20.We could have done something to arrested, and we should do. We have
:56:20. > :56:23.all been talking about it for. Welsh language broadcasting has a
:56:23. > :56:27.Stirchley been a politically sensitive issue for many reasons.
:56:27. > :56:32.Has that hindered the debate around English-language broadcasting?
:56:32. > :56:36.much of the last year I have spent my time pressing the government to
:56:36. > :56:40.come up with a positive settlement for S4C. Working with independent
:56:40. > :56:45.companies and people within the BBC to come up with a positive answer.
:56:45. > :56:50.I think it is fair to say Menna Richards does make a good point.
:56:50. > :56:54.The vocal numbers that have been shouting about S4C for a very good
:56:54. > :56:58.reasons, and there was support their objectives and their outcome,
:56:58. > :57:03.but it has detracted from the wider debate about broadcasting. What I
:57:03. > :57:09.would like to see is more of broadcasting about Wales on network
:57:09. > :57:12.television. She is also pointing the finger at people like you. She
:57:13. > :57:18.said a Scottish newspapers and media attack the BBC and management
:57:18. > :57:24.in London. By you doing the same? have always made the point to Mark
:57:24. > :57:29.Thompson that I want to see more about Wales on network television.
:57:29. > :57:34.The North-East does well, Scotland does well on network television. It
:57:34. > :57:41.is easy to talk about Wales within wheels, but I want to see it on
:57:41. > :57:46.network television. -- Wales. raised this with Chris Patten, it