:00:58. > :01:04.Here, mixed messages for our region's economy. We ask Bohr the
:01:04. > :01:14.Chancellor needs to do to sell us his Orton spending plans. And the
:01:14. > :01:14.
:01:14. > :34:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2013 seconds
:34:47. > :34:50.Hello again from the Midlands. A little later, more on that "Day of
:34:50. > :34:55.Action", or is it "Inaction", if the public sector doesn't go to
:34:55. > :34:59.work on Wednesday? But one day before that comes the Chancellor's
:34:59. > :35:03.autumn statement. George Osborne will set out the options which he
:35:03. > :35:06.hopes can stimulate growth, without going soft on deficit reduction.
:35:06. > :35:08.Here with me to look ahead to both these main events are the
:35:08. > :35:12.Conservative MP for the Staffordshire Moorlands, Karen
:35:12. > :35:15.Bradley. She's a member of the Work and Pensions Select Committee. Ian
:35:15. > :35:19.Austin is the Labour MP for Dudley North and a member of the
:35:19. > :35:27.Opposition's work and pensions team. And Lorely Burt, is the Liberal
:35:27. > :35:32.Democrat MP for Solihull. She chairs her Parliamentary party. A
:35:32. > :35:34.warm welcome to you all bus-stop So what does the West Midlands want
:35:34. > :35:37.from the Chancellor this week? Our political reporter Susana Mendonca
:35:37. > :35:46.has been gauging the mood on the streets of Sandwell, Solihull, and
:35:46. > :35:48.The mulled wine is flowing, the chestnuts are roasting - yes,
:35:49. > :35:58.Christmas has come to Birmingham again, after what's been a rocky
:35:59. > :35:59.
:35:59. > :36:01.Unemployment's up in the West Midlands to 8.9%, and the economy's
:36:01. > :36:06.still struggling - prompting the business community here to write
:36:06. > :36:16.their very own wish list. But the man they've been writing to isn't
:36:16. > :36:17.
:36:17. > :36:22.The two key areas we have asked the Chancellor to look at our
:36:22. > :36:25.regulation and taxation. Proposed regulation between now and 2015
:36:25. > :36:30.could cost the West Midlands economy billions, that is money
:36:30. > :36:34.that isn't getting spent on hiring new people, it is a disincentive to
:36:34. > :36:37.investment. We also think he needs to look at levels of personal
:36:37. > :36:40.taxation and corporation tax. does he need a Plan B? Labour think
:36:40. > :36:45.so - they want the Chancellor to lower taxes and abandon spending
:36:45. > :36:51.cuts. All suggestions that make this mum from Bearwood's autumnal
:36:51. > :36:55.wish list - but then she is a Labour party member. I would like
:36:55. > :36:59.them to look at renewing the funding for local authorities, I
:36:59. > :37:04.think the cards have been parked too severe for local authorities,
:37:04. > :37:07.in particular, I am a social worker, I have had trouble finding a
:37:07. > :37:11.position because the local authorities are not employing,
:37:11. > :37:14.through no fault of their own, they have had to make such drastic cuts.
:37:14. > :37:17.It's unlikely, though, that the Chancellor will be handing out cash
:37:17. > :37:20.to local councils this week. After all, it's the tough austerity
:37:20. > :37:24.measures he's taken to tackle the budget deficit that George Osborne
:37:24. > :37:26.claims has made Britain a safe haven. But if you're a small or
:37:26. > :37:33.medium-sized business here in Birmingham that's seen its takings
:37:33. > :37:36.spiralling downwards, you might be hoping for a Plan A plus! And the
:37:36. > :37:41.Chancellor's thought to be mulling that over - with measures to boost
:37:41. > :37:45.growth on the horizon. That's certainly on the wish list at this
:37:45. > :37:48.family-run factory in Birmingham's Jewellery Quarter. It's been in
:37:48. > :37:56.business for more than 300 years and caters to a very niche market -
:37:56. > :38:00.making badges and medals for state occasions. But business has slowed.
:38:00. > :38:04.-- demand has dropped. What I would like to hear from the Chancellor is
:38:04. > :38:09.that he would be willing to relax the rules and regulations that cost
:38:09. > :38:13.a lot of money for companies as small as ours, these are rules and
:38:13. > :38:17.regulations that apply to health and safety, where they have
:38:17. > :38:24.experienced people coming in, saying you have to make all these
:38:24. > :38:26.changes to the business. So she wants an end to red tape, while
:38:26. > :38:28.larger firms are looking for something bigger. Solihull-based
:38:28. > :38:31.Miller Construction is building a new science block at Staffordshire
:38:31. > :38:38.University and has just finished Stoke-on-Trent's new sixth form
:38:38. > :38:41.college. Its chief executive says more state-funded infrastructure
:38:41. > :38:46.projects would be a way to keep West Midlands firms in business and
:38:46. > :38:50.create jobs across the region. Chancellor has only got so much
:38:50. > :38:55.money to spend, and by investing in public works, you get a benefit to
:38:55. > :38:59.the business community, to pound 84 for every �1 you spend in
:38:59. > :39:04.construction, but you also create new facilities at for the West
:39:04. > :39:13.Midlands. It's a long wish list. But with more gloomy economic
:39:13. > :39:18.predictions expected to come, they may not get all they've asked for.
:39:19. > :39:22.At least part of that wish list is about to come true, apparently,
:39:22. > :39:25.because the Chancellor is expected to respond positively to appeals
:39:25. > :39:33.like those of for some major government funded infrastructure
:39:34. > :39:37.project. Midlanders want lower taxes, surprise, surprise, but what
:39:37. > :39:43.is a surprise is that so do you, particularly a number of business
:39:43. > :39:47.taxes. Are you sure, given that the Prime Minister says you cannot add
:39:47. > :39:54.more debt to a debt crisis? That is right, we have to be clear about
:39:54. > :39:58.the fact that we are boring �150 million a year. -- borrowing. We
:39:58. > :40:02.have to put that into context. The only way we are going to grow our
:40:02. > :40:06.way out of this downturn is through the private sector, so anything
:40:06. > :40:10.that can be done to help the private sector to grow their way
:40:10. > :40:16.out of the downturn and boost the economy has to be a good thing.
:40:16. > :40:20.What about you, Ian? You have spoken about up grading the local
:40:20. > :40:26.authority, what would you advise him to do? I think there are tax
:40:26. > :40:32.cuts, we propose and national insurance cut or any company taking
:40:32. > :40:36.on new workers. We reckon attacks on bankers could raise hundreds of
:40:36. > :40:41.jobs and billions. The economy has flat lined, there is no growth at
:40:41. > :40:44.all, only Japan has grown more slowly than last of the major
:40:44. > :40:50.economies, and they have had an earthquake. Youth unemployment is
:40:50. > :40:56.at record levels, higher than at any point during the recession.
:40:56. > :41:00.What about the effect of the 50 p top rate of tax? An article says,
:41:00. > :41:04.there is growing evidence that this tax is damaging the economy and
:41:04. > :41:08.leaking taxes needed for public spending. I think it is
:41:08. > :41:12.extraordinary that Karen wants to cut the top rate of tax. What she
:41:12. > :41:16.is proposing and what many in the Tory party were deceived his tax
:41:16. > :41:22.cuts for the super rich, I don't know what world she lives in, but
:41:22. > :41:25.there are not one -- many of those in Dudley. And they are cutting tax
:41:26. > :41:30.credit for ordinary families. would go down very badly with
:41:30. > :41:35.people who were not the super rich. The point I was making was, how can
:41:35. > :41:40.you use taxes to boost the economy. The only bit of personal taxes that
:41:40. > :41:45.could stimulate economic growth is if we can get more of the wealthy
:41:45. > :41:50.entrepreneurs investing in the UK. My point is that if the 50 p tax
:41:50. > :41:55.rate is costing us tax revenue that we can use to pay for our teachers,
:41:55. > :42:01.nurses, police, we should look carefully at that. Where do you
:42:01. > :42:05.incline on this? Your party had to swallow its better instincts on VAT
:42:05. > :42:13.when the government came in, so do you incline with your coalition
:42:13. > :42:18.partner or a Labour? Well, if you put taxes up for the better off,
:42:18. > :42:21.then I don't see that is such a bad thing. We have got to have some
:42:21. > :42:27.fairness. And our input into what is happening now with regard to tax
:42:27. > :42:32.is that we have taken 880,000 people of the lowest paid out of
:42:32. > :42:36.tax altogether. These are people who spend their money, and that is
:42:36. > :42:39.contributing to the economy. have all been celebrating the 1000
:42:40. > :42:44.new jobs coming through Jaguar Land Rover, including in your
:42:44. > :42:48.constituency. The problem is that the private sector, although it is
:42:49. > :42:52.creating jobs, no way near enough to offset the results of loss of
:42:53. > :42:59.public sector jobs, and nowhere near enough for the Chancellor to
:42:59. > :43:04.close the gap for his economic strategy to have any success?
:43:04. > :43:09.don't agree with what Ian says, but manufacturing industry is actually
:43:09. > :43:13.growing in the West Midlands, and as a percentage of GDP it is
:43:13. > :43:18.growing. That is what we do well here in the West Midlands. We are
:43:18. > :43:24.putting money into investing in young people's jobs as well. One of
:43:24. > :43:27.the things that came through was that she wanted less regulation,
:43:27. > :43:32.which is one of the things your administration heaped on local
:43:32. > :43:36.industry and it is holding them back, have you learned from that?
:43:36. > :43:40.Where we can get deregulation we should do, but we need urgent
:43:40. > :43:45.action to create jobs across the economy. Instead of cutting taxes
:43:45. > :43:50.for the super rich, but repeat the bankers bonus tax, let's get people
:43:50. > :43:57.into work, create new homes, have a cut on National Insurance for firms
:43:57. > :44:02.creating jobs. I love this backbone is tax. It has been spent around
:44:02. > :44:06.nine or 10 times. But in fact, the money he is suggesting, when you
:44:06. > :44:12.take all the taxes of the people are receiving already, there is
:44:12. > :44:19.less than �2 billion to tax them in the first place. On you more in
:44:20. > :44:24.tune with the city then with the needs of people like ours? They are
:44:24. > :44:28.quite resentful of the bankers. do already have a financial
:44:28. > :44:33.transaction tax, stamp duty, we have a bank Leddy, raising more
:44:33. > :44:37.than the bank bonus tax, and it there is a 50 p tax rate that is
:44:37. > :44:44.paid on any bonus or any salary paid to a wealthy owner. That you
:44:44. > :44:50.want to get rid of. If it is not raising tax, that is what we need
:44:50. > :44:54.to look at. But I think it is important to remember that in the
:44:54. > :44:59.Staffordshire mordant, 80% of employees are employed in the
:44:59. > :45:03.private sector. I think you have to ask whose side these people are on,
:45:03. > :45:10.to be honest. They want to cut tax for the super rich, they want to
:45:10. > :45:14.cut child benefit for hard working families. Extraordinary. Not long
:45:14. > :45:23.to go now. The Chancellor will get to his feet in a couple of days'
:45:23. > :45:25.It's called a "Day of Action", but with hundreds of thousands of
:45:25. > :45:28.public sector workers going on strike right across the Midlands
:45:28. > :45:31.this coming Wednesday, it could equally be described as a day of
:45:31. > :45:38.inaction. The TUC say this protest against the Government's pensions
:45:38. > :45:41.proposals, will be the biggest "for a generation". Unison say it's
:45:41. > :45:44.their biggest campaign ever, involving over a hundred thousand
:45:44. > :45:48.people here in the Midlands alone, in local authorities and the health
:45:48. > :45:50.service as well as police support officers. Wednesday's main rally
:45:50. > :45:57.will be in Birmingham, with others principally in Stoke-on-Trent,
:45:57. > :46:00.Telford, Coventry and Worcester. I asked the man in charge of the
:46:00. > :46:10.union here how they could sustain their arguments that this pensions
:46:10. > :46:11.
:46:11. > :46:15.issue was their members' over- riding concern. If you look at the
:46:15. > :46:19.turn out in these ballads, between 27 and 31% only. No wonder people
:46:19. > :46:23.are questioning the legitimacy. think that is a bit of a red
:46:23. > :46:26.herring, because the proportion of how members who voted for strike
:46:26. > :46:30.action is the same as the proportion of people who voted for
:46:30. > :46:35.David Cameron, and nobody is saying that David Cameron... Democracy
:46:35. > :46:42.doesn't count for him. The majority of our members that voted in that
:46:42. > :46:45.ballot voted for industrial action, and that is why we are taking it.
:46:45. > :46:51.Of those who take part, their votes Count, those who don't take part,
:46:51. > :46:56.their votes are not counted. government says union should not be
:46:56. > :47:02.jumping the gun while these talks are in prices. We have had no
:47:02. > :47:06.choice. It is clear the government were prepared to make an illegal
:47:06. > :47:14.offer, but they have not made a meaningful offer. -- a meaningful
:47:14. > :47:18.offer. But the government say this isn't an unconditional offer, by
:47:18. > :47:23.going ahead with the strike action, you make the risk that the
:47:23. > :47:26.government will impose AA different deal altogether. That is simply
:47:26. > :47:31.bullying, from a government you're not prepared to listen to people,
:47:31. > :47:35.engaging in a lawful and democratic right to protest. What they should
:47:35. > :47:41.be doing is getting round the table, talking to us seriously and making
:47:41. > :47:44.a decent offer. But surely public sector pensions at the bone that
:47:44. > :47:48.are unaffordable, it is not unreasonable to ask your members to
:47:48. > :47:52.pay that bit more in, work a bit longer, just as people in the
:47:52. > :47:58.private sector are having to do. This issue off before ability, it
:47:58. > :48:01.is important to nail the myth. The pension scheme took in more than �2
:48:01. > :48:04.billion in contributions more than it paid out last year. The local
:48:04. > :48:08.government pension scheme took in more than �4 billion more than it
:48:08. > :48:13.paid out. What has happened is the government asking public sector
:48:13. > :48:17.workers to pay a 3% tax to pay off the deficit because none of these
:48:17. > :48:22.contribution increases are going to go into the pension scheme. The
:48:22. > :48:26.deficit was caused by a corrupt banking crisis, school meals
:48:26. > :48:29.workers, care workers, school crossing patrols workers could
:48:30. > :48:33.refuse collectors, none of those Dibble caused this deficit.
:48:33. > :48:38.there the mood among the public sector unions for a protracted,
:48:38. > :48:43.long, drawn-out campaign of industrial action, a winter of
:48:43. > :48:47.discontent? What we are focusing on delivering it is the best possible
:48:47. > :48:50.action on 30th November. Our hope as this will bring the government
:48:50. > :48:58.back to the negotiating table. The thing that will settle this dispute
:48:58. > :49:02.is an improved offer from the government. Your party doesn't
:49:02. > :49:08.really know whether to stick or twist on this one, do you? You have
:49:08. > :49:12.to distance yourself what will be an unpopular strike call but you
:49:12. > :49:20.don't want to separate yourself from your paymasters? Nobody wants
:49:20. > :49:24.to see the strike, but I think... So what is your advice to the
:49:24. > :49:28.unions? What I think should be happening is clear. Mums and dads
:49:28. > :49:31.are watching this programme, what they want to know is why it is
:49:31. > :49:36.David Cameron swanning around instead of sitting around a table
:49:36. > :49:39.with the unions, refusing to budge until this thing is negotiating and
:49:39. > :49:43.the strike is cancelled. They should be negotiating it non-stop,
:49:43. > :49:49.and there has been a failure from the government to do that.
:49:49. > :49:53.government don't stingy putting 110% in to getting a solution, do
:49:53. > :49:57.they? Only a few weeks ago they gave a compromise to support those
:49:57. > :50:04.closer to retirement and those at the lowest end of the earnings
:50:04. > :50:09.spectrum. I am not there at the negotiations, I am here.
:50:09. > :50:13.Negotiations are not happening. a lot of these ballots were taken
:50:13. > :50:17.before the compromise was on the table, so I would urge everybody
:50:17. > :50:21.who was considering striking, go on the government website, find out
:50:22. > :50:27.how you personally are affected. You may well find you are not worse
:50:27. > :50:32.off. That is absolutely true. People who are within 10 years of
:50:32. > :50:35.retirement, the lowest paid people, will pay nothing more. But the
:50:35. > :50:42.government and the unions have had a very constructive talks since the
:50:42. > :50:47.beginning of the year. They are not meeting this weekend. But they have
:50:47. > :50:50.been talking all year. But it is a tricky one when the government say
:50:51. > :50:54.what they are concerned about is to protect the people on the lower
:50:54. > :50:58.earnings, and that is a difficult one for the unions to argue against.
:50:58. > :51:03.You can negotiate about the benefits, the entitlement, all
:51:03. > :51:08.those sort of things, we negotiated settlements with the unions, but
:51:08. > :51:18.the issue here is this 3% tax. What have we heard today? We have had
:51:18. > :51:18.
:51:18. > :51:21.carried wants to cut taxes for people on �150,000. But your dinner
:51:21. > :51:27.ladies and teachers are not going to be affected by this. The lowest
:51:27. > :51:34.paid will not be affected. Teachers, police support staff... I but did
:51:34. > :51:38.you take it on average, people pay on average between 1.5 and 3.5%
:51:39. > :51:47.into their pension, but the public sector is paying 19% in terms of
:51:47. > :51:51.their contribution, the taxpayer. Do you have any sympathy for the
:51:51. > :51:58.argument Ian is putting here, that these are responsible and diligent
:51:58. > :52:04.public servants, who discharge big and important responsibilities?
:52:04. > :52:07.agree, and I say... Let's put this in context, last year, the
:52:07. > :52:12.teachers' pension scheme paid out billions, that is not pavements to
:52:12. > :52:16.current teachers, it is payments to existing retired teachers. Of that
:52:16. > :52:20.7.5 billion, only 1.5 was contributions from existing
:52:20. > :52:26.teachers, so nearly �6 billion was paid by the taxpayer. That is about
:52:26. > :52:30.the same as we pay in international aid every year, a big number.
:52:30. > :52:34.Lib Dems have always had a strong identification with public sector
:52:34. > :52:38.workers. Are you uncomfortable that this coalition has put you at odds
:52:38. > :52:43.with what has traditionally been one of your big constituencies of
:52:43. > :52:46.support? I would be if I considered that what we are doing was unfair
:52:46. > :52:50.and unbalanced. I think it is a fair offer, given the fact that we
:52:50. > :52:56.are living so much longer, and be untenable situation we are in at
:52:56. > :53:01.the moment with the United money the taxpayer put into public sector
:53:01. > :53:05.pensions compared with those workers themselves. A long, drawn-
:53:05. > :53:10.out winter of discontent would be a PR disaster for Labour, wouldn't
:53:10. > :53:14.it? You have got to ask that of the government that has caused this.
:53:14. > :53:17.You have to ask about their values, they want to cut taxes for the
:53:17. > :53:23.super rich, they have abolished the tax on bankers bonus, they are
:53:23. > :53:26.hitting teachers, dinner ladies, nurses. The government have also
:53:26. > :53:30.been accused of rather celebrating the fact that they feel it is
:53:30. > :53:35.suggested that the unions have walked into a trap which rebounds
:53:35. > :53:39.very well for David Cameron. disagree with that. I wouldn't have
:53:39. > :53:43.started from here. If we were able to start from the beginning about
:53:43. > :53:48.public sector pensions, it wouldn't be how we have done today. The fact
:53:48. > :53:53.of the matter is, it is unsustainable. We are all living
:53:53. > :53:55.longer, that is fantastic, but that means the taxpayer, the fewer
:53:55. > :54:01.numbers of workers compared to those retired means there is not
:54:01. > :54:05.enough money in the part to keep paying pensions. So a little bit
:54:05. > :54:09.more of a contribution, and work a bit longer, so we can have one of
:54:09. > :54:15.the best pensions around when you retire. Can this be settled before
:54:15. > :54:25.the end of the year? I hope so. they get back to negotiations.
:54:25. > :54:26.
:54:26. > :54:33.Absolutely. This is a critical, crucial period coming up. Thank you.