:00:47. > :00:54.Here, the workers are dusting of the placards for the strikes on
:00:54. > :00:58.Thursday. Will be talking to union bosses. Does the West really need
:00:58. > :01:08.four new police commissioners on �20,000 each? Join us for the
:01:08. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :43:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2512 seconds
:43:01. > :43:05.Good morning. And welcome to the Politics Show here in the West.
:43:05. > :43:08.Four days to go before the great public sector walkout. The
:43:08. > :43:15.Government and the Union Square up for a possible summer of industrial
:43:15. > :43:19.action. Our ballot provides us with a right to strike action. That
:43:20. > :43:24.means we can legally continue with legal action in September if the
:43:24. > :43:34.June action is not successful. why are we paying to elect more of
:43:34. > :43:38.her public officials when the money has run out?
:43:38. > :43:42.Everybody out! That is the cry that will go up this Thursday in the
:43:42. > :43:46.biggest day of plan strikes and many years. The walkouts will
:43:46. > :43:51.affect the public sector, teachers included, in protest at
:43:51. > :43:58.redundancies and cuts to pensions. But it is it time for militancy or
:43:58. > :44:01.are we in this to go whether -- together? And will West Country
:44:01. > :44:05.workers struggling in the private sector have much sympathy in --
:44:06. > :44:09.with those fighting for gold plated pensions? First here is Paul
:44:09. > :44:14.Barltrop. There have been campaigns and
:44:14. > :44:18.protests. Now the unions fighting the coalition's policies are
:44:18. > :44:22.escalating the conflict. In the West, some schools are to shut and
:44:22. > :44:26.pickets will be outside Government offices. They say it is about all
:44:26. > :44:31.of those who are suffering, like Lucy Johnson, Geoff Collard and
:44:31. > :44:36.Linda Phillips - a teacher, a civil servant facing redundancy and a
:44:36. > :44:39.woman unemployed for seven months. When she got her first job in a
:44:39. > :44:44.Welsh a secondary school last year, Lucy Johnson never expected to go
:44:44. > :44:48.on strike. In terms of taking industrial action, it is not
:44:48. > :44:54.something I have been involved in before. This is the first time that
:44:54. > :45:02.ATL has long balloted far strike action. So the fact that ATL as the
:45:02. > :45:06.union has chosen to ask teachers to do this, it is taken as an attack
:45:06. > :45:11.on their profession. She did not going to it for money, but
:45:11. > :45:19.frustration has turned into anger for putting more into pensions.
:45:19. > :45:23.there is no erosion in teachers' pay and in -- and contributions, a
:45:23. > :45:26.decrease in teacher's monthly pay packet, then good graduates, people
:45:27. > :45:36.who would want to teach children in this country, will not be attracted
:45:37. > :45:37.
:45:37. > :45:43.to the tradition -- to the job. will be saying goodbye to his
:45:43. > :45:47.colleagues. June 30th is the day he becomes redundant. I will be here
:45:47. > :45:52.in sympathy anyway because it is just about the end of my time here.
:45:52. > :45:57.I will be saying goodbye to people. I will be around. Had it been a
:45:58. > :46:02.normal day for me, I would definitely be on strike. Temple
:46:02. > :46:08.Quay is home to 11 Government departments. More than 200 jobs
:46:08. > :46:14.have already gone. So far all one tally. That does not make it easy.
:46:14. > :46:18.It is scary. I have got to find some money to pay the bills. I will
:46:18. > :46:23.get some redundancy from here but it will not be much. It will we
:46:23. > :46:26.keep me going for less than one year. This is where he may end up.
:46:26. > :46:31.Linda Phillips from North Dorset has to make weekly visits to the
:46:31. > :46:39.JobCentre. She has been out of work for more than six months. It can be
:46:39. > :46:44.very demoralising at times and disheartening. But me being me, I
:46:44. > :46:53.tried to keep myself busy. I tried to do things so that I am not
:46:53. > :46:58.always just sat at home. But yes it can be very demoralising to come to
:46:58. > :47:03.the JobCentre and to get jobs. You know very well that the majority of
:47:03. > :47:08.the time you will not get an interview, you're application is
:47:08. > :47:12.not acknowledged, nothing. So week after week you come and you have
:47:12. > :47:18.the same thing. A former care worker, to improve her chances she
:47:18. > :47:22.is getting training in IT. Harp local area has their proportion of
:47:22. > :47:30.people who work in the public sector. There is not a huge range
:47:30. > :47:35.of jobs in the North Dorset area. If a job comes along, it is quite
:47:35. > :47:38.good. Everyone goes for it. coming days will put much pressure
:47:38. > :47:44.on the Government. The Prime Minister has criticised the strike
:47:44. > :47:47.and the role of Labour. Everyone in this country, the trade unions
:47:47. > :47:52.included, no we have to cut public spending, we have to get the
:47:52. > :47:59.deficit down, we have to keep interest rates noun. It is the
:47:59. > :48:04.height of irresponsibility for a shadow officers -- shadow Ministers
:48:04. > :48:08.officers -- opposite to say it is all right to go on strike.
:48:08. > :48:13.except pension reform is needed. It is one of their former Ministers
:48:13. > :48:16.John Hutton who has been advising the Government. I do not pass the
:48:17. > :48:21.believe Ministers want to provoke a confrontation with the trade unions.
:48:21. > :48:26.They want to find an agreement. coming clash will make that harder.
:48:26. > :48:31.And with more industrial action plan, the wall between unions and
:48:31. > :48:37.Government may only worsen. With me is the Devizes MP Claire
:48:37. > :48:43.Perry who used to work with the Chancellor and one of the co-
:48:43. > :48:49.organiser of Thursday's strike, John McAnally. John, is this
:48:49. > :48:55.completely irresponsible? People only take strike action when they
:48:55. > :49:00.have no alternative. We have mainly low-paid workers who will be asked
:49:01. > :49:04.to pay more or contributions. They have been asked to work till they
:49:04. > :49:09.are 68 and the value of their pensions, if the Government wishes
:49:09. > :49:18.to the model they have at the present time, will be devalued by
:49:18. > :49:26.20 or 30%. If you take-away the per portion of Hyde earners, it is an
:49:26. > :49:31.increased. How well you know if you have one on Thursday? I do not
:49:31. > :49:35.expect that. On Thursday, we believe it will be the first stage
:49:35. > :49:40.in a major campaign, which of the Government is not prepared to
:49:40. > :49:46.undergo say it, could lead to between 5 million public sectors
:49:46. > :49:52.taking strike action. How seriously are you taking this threat?
:49:52. > :49:57.membership voted for strike action. I think many public sector workers,
:49:57. > :50:02.the majority of the country, no we have a problem. John Hutton was a
:50:02. > :50:06.Minister in the last Government. We have a problem that in the 1930s
:50:06. > :50:10.when public sector pensions were set up, people may claim for 20
:50:10. > :50:18.years. Now they are paying for 30 years. His members did not cause
:50:18. > :50:22.the problem. We have a completely unsustainable pension system.
:50:22. > :50:26.crisis has been caused by the flankers. We had the financial
:50:26. > :50:30.crisis but we had a Government that spent more money than the two can
:50:30. > :50:34.taxes for the last 10 years. We have a problem now where we have a
:50:34. > :50:38.very unsustainable and unfair pension system. The lowest-paid
:50:38. > :50:45.workers in the public sector have had the babies and they will not be
:50:45. > :50:51.asked to pay an increase in pay contributions. But public sector
:50:51. > :51:01.pensions will be more generous than the private sector. This is unfair
:51:01. > :51:01.
:51:01. > :51:06.and an sustainable. A country which is the 6th richest in the world,
:51:06. > :51:11.today in terms of pensions, we have to 0.5 million pensioners living
:51:12. > :51:18.below the poverty line. 3.5 million pensioners are living in poverty.
:51:18. > :51:25.That has got to be wrong. There has got to be a better way. Can we
:51:25. > :51:35.afford it? There is an alternative. MPs will be retaining their
:51:35. > :51:38.
:51:38. > :51:43.pensions. The bankers will have a pension far in excess of the public
:51:43. > :51:50.sector workers. If we want to look at the problems caused by the banks
:51:50. > :51:54.and the bankers, not by private or public sector workers... People
:51:54. > :51:59.think that if it was some low-paid public sector workers who showed
:51:59. > :52:06.the negligence that the Param -- bankers showed, they would be
:52:06. > :52:10.jailed. White you not understand the issue. We have had the
:52:10. > :52:16.financial crisis but we have had a massive roll out in Government
:52:16. > :52:21.spending. It is unsustainable. It is not fair to have a public sector,
:52:22. > :52:26.that on average, earn more than the private sector and have better
:52:26. > :52:31.pension deals. We have to pay for that. Even after these changes, the
:52:31. > :52:38.average worker will have a bad -- better pension pot than the private
:52:38. > :52:45.sector workers. That is not there are sustainable. I am the taxpayer
:52:45. > :52:51.and a public sector worker. The rate of tax relief for the richest
:52:51. > :52:57.1% in society is double the cost of the public sector pensions. Would
:52:57. > :53:07.she raised such taxes? What is the plan? Let me give you a few
:53:07. > :53:10.
:53:10. > :53:18.examples. I pay my taxes, you pay your taxes. Tax evasion, tax
:53:18. > :53:27.avoidance is not being addressed. Between 122 at �130 billion a year
:53:27. > :53:31.is a faded or uncollected. -- �120 billion a year. John's own members
:53:31. > :53:36.do not believe this. One in five of his union voted for strike action.
:53:36. > :53:40.I think it is incredibly irresponsible when there is a
:53:40. > :53:48.negotiation in place, a do you think you might backfire? There is
:53:48. > :53:53.a very serious negotiation process in place. There is a huge amount to
:53:53. > :53:57.negotiation going on. To have this kind of strike Wycherley
:53:57. > :54:03.conveniences -- inconveniences people, is the height of
:54:03. > :54:09.irresponsibility when only 20% of your voters voted for it. What will
:54:09. > :54:14.the cost of this be if these changes go through? Most people
:54:14. > :54:18.only earn �20,000 a year. They will have to pay an additional �60 a
:54:18. > :54:28.more in terms of contributions. That might not be a lot of money to
:54:28. > :54:37.you. But to people... That is unbelievably insulting. It means
:54:37. > :54:43.the difference between... He is making the point there. We are not
:54:43. > :54:46.on the cricket lines. She is constantly interrupting me.
:54:46. > :54:49.lowest paid workers will pay nothing in terms of additional
:54:49. > :54:55.contribution. They have been excluded from the public sector pay
:54:55. > :55:02.fees. What we have now is unfair and unsustainable. 80% of your
:55:02. > :55:07.members know that. Let's talk about that later in the programme.
:55:07. > :55:11.If you're looking for a job, how about standing for election as a
:55:11. > :55:15.new police commissioner? You will receive around �120,000 a year plus
:55:15. > :55:21.perks. The idea is to elect a single person to oversee each
:55:21. > :55:29.constabulary. We will need one for Avon and Somerset, Gloucestershire,
:55:29. > :55:33.Wiltshire and Somerset. It is about handing power back to the people.
:55:33. > :55:38.But at what cost? Dickon Hooper reports.
:55:38. > :55:44.Policing is a difficult business. Managing the police, more so. But
:55:44. > :55:48.the Government has a plan. It wants you, me and everybody to elect
:55:48. > :55:52.police commissioners. They will have powers over budgets to be able
:55:52. > :55:57.to set the policing plan and crucially here in the West Country,
:55:57. > :56:04.they will be to hire and fire and chief constables. We could go to
:56:04. > :56:08.the ballot box next May. But to introduce these commissioners could
:56:08. > :56:12.cost more than �106 million over 10 years. And in Somerset, they are
:56:12. > :56:17.very worried about this cost. One of the reasons we are and pausing
:56:17. > :56:23.yet because it will cost �1 million offer in excess of that to have an
:56:23. > :56:28.election. That is �1 million being wasted as we would see on an
:56:28. > :56:32.election when we could be spending on frontline services. This is not
:56:32. > :56:37.broke, don't fix it. The police a authority would go of commissioners
:56:37. > :56:41.come in. So they are happy the Lords of block the plans. But the
:56:41. > :56:46.Government is fighting on. It sells Commissioners will reconnect the
:56:46. > :56:49.public with policing and make them more accountable. But it may offer
:56:49. > :56:53.pilot schemes first. Whatever happens with police commissioners,
:56:53. > :56:59.this is part of something bigger. The Government wants to hand power
:56:59. > :57:04.back to us, the people, to have her say. It is a noble idea but do we
:57:04. > :57:09.want it? The council here -- house here is packed with councillors
:57:09. > :57:15.elected here. Turnout was not great for our last referendum on moving
:57:15. > :57:19.to the Alternative Vote. So, it is perhaps ironic that some who fought
:57:19. > :57:24.against even having that referendum on cost grounds now support
:57:25. > :57:29.spending money on it more balance. If we do end up going to the polls
:57:29. > :57:34.next May to elect a police commissioners, here in Bristol, we
:57:34. > :57:40.will also be asked whether or not we want an elected mayor. At a cost
:57:40. > :57:48.of course. To hold a referendum and subsequent election, it would cost
:57:48. > :57:52.the council here almost �650,000. The issue is whether we think it is
:57:52. > :57:59.a good thing or not. Obviously, I would not want to criticise the
:57:59. > :58:03.idea of a referendum, asking people is always a good thing, but whether
:58:03. > :58:07.in the low light of interest in the past, it is justified to spend this
:58:07. > :58:12.amount of money. I think people will be concerned about it. We are
:58:12. > :58:16.having to find huge saving tax, having to cut services to the bone.
:58:17. > :58:20.Unless you can demonstrate they will be huge rents its for Bristol,
:58:20. > :58:26.people will be right and asking why we are spending this meant of money.
:58:26. > :58:30.-- huge benefits. In the south of the city, one man who may stand for
:58:30. > :58:35.mayor bought me a cup of tea and explain the financial benefits.
:58:35. > :58:39.There will be millions in real savings arm millions that could
:58:39. > :58:43.going to direct services instead of being wasted on some of the
:58:43. > :58:48.administration. We have a crazy system where we have local
:58:48. > :58:52.elections annually. That is absolutely bonkers. It has two
:58:52. > :58:56.costs, one it is the physical cost and the other is the cost of the
:58:56. > :59:01.politicians looking over their shoulders every time. You cannot
:59:01. > :59:08.get on running a place like that. It seems then the voting is not a
:59:08. > :59:13.problem for the coalition. We will not be going to the ballot box in
:59:13. > :59:18.future just to choose our councillors and there MPs, but
:59:18. > :59:24.someone still has got to pick up the tab.
:59:24. > :59:33.It is round to two. Still here is Claire Perry and John McInally from
:59:33. > :59:37.the PCAS. -- PCS Union. It was David Cameron's pet project from
:59:37. > :59:41.the very start but lots of people are saying what is the boy? I think
:59:41. > :59:46.the point is that people do not feel they have a lot of influence
:59:46. > :59:50.over local matters and policing. Only a third of people feel their
:59:50. > :59:56.voices heard a local levels. There were lots of examples from around
:59:56. > :00:01.the World's where people having elected police commissioners, like
:00:01. > :00:06.we have in London, made people feel they had a voice that was being
:00:06. > :00:11.heard at the Tom line of the policing service. John? I think it
:00:11. > :00:17.is an irrelevancy. When you consider the justice system, �2
:00:17. > :00:23.million will be cut over the next couple of years. 142 courts will
:00:23. > :00:30.shut which means people will be denied to justice and their legal -
:00:30. > :00:38.- in the local area. There is quite fearless. It does undermine your
:00:38. > :00:43.argument. The problems we have with the police force are managed by 41
:00:43. > :00:48.separate quangos. Policemen and women only spent 12% of the time
:00:48. > :00:51.out on the beat engaging with crime. There is a mountain of bureaucracy
:00:51. > :00:59.and micro-management. I do not think politicians should set and
:00:59. > :01:08.white top saying what people should beat -- police should be doing.
:01:08. > :01:14.What about the police authority? Can you not pick up the phone and
:01:14. > :01:20.they say this? He would say, Clare, I would look at that. Why should I
:01:20. > :01:24.be the gatekeeper for that? Why do not -- Weddle we have a directly-
:01:25. > :01:32.elected police commissioner who is directly accountable to the people.
:01:32. > :01:36.It is just another layer of baroque receive. There should be local
:01:36. > :01:41.accountability in terms of the police and my ears. The reality is
:01:41. > :01:46.that local accountability is being torn away. Local access to services
:01:46. > :01:55.has been torn away. Because of the changes made to the Ministry of
:01:55. > :02:05.Justice, legal aid is affected. Privatisation makes things more
:02:05. > :02:06.
:02:06. > :02:16.expensive. In terms of local accountability, local police
:02:16. > :02:20.
:02:20. > :02:23.commissioners are fine. There is a wholly -- a backlog of cases. It is
:02:23. > :02:27.being brought in house to the Ministry of Justice so they can
:02:28. > :02:33.sorted out. We agree and that. found something to agree on at the
:02:33. > :02:37.end. I kibbled for coming in. It is good to have you. That is just
:02:37. > :02:42.about it from the Politics Show. We are off next Sunday because of