:00:30. > :00:33.And in the west: The Lib Dem MP for Yeovil talks to
:00:33. > :00:37.me about the econony and a possible political comeback.
:00:37. > :00:47.Plus the former head of the army on war and conscription, and the local
:00:47. > :00:47.
:00:47. > :36:18.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2131 seconds
:36:18. > :36:22.council boss who was so good, they Good afternoon and welcome to the
:36:22. > :36:24.part of the show which brings you the politics from the west of
:36:24. > :36:27.England. We're starting the new season with some exclusive
:36:27. > :36:32.interviews. David Laws from Yeovil had the shortest cabinet career in
:36:32. > :36:38.history. I'm talking to him about a possible political comeback.
:36:38. > :36:41.This general ran the army in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now he's living in
:36:41. > :36:46.Wiltshire. I ask him about the war on terror and whether we should
:36:46. > :36:53.bring back national service. And the council chief executive who is
:36:53. > :37:03.so good at his job, they decided to fire him! He has done an excellent
:37:03. > :37:08.
:37:08. > :37:15.job. He left this council in a It's nice to be back after a long
:37:15. > :37:25.summer, when many of us spend hours huddled under Cooke's under grey
:37:25. > :37:27.
:37:27. > :37:30.skies. David Laws famously had to resign after the shortest time in
:37:30. > :37:35.office in modern history. That followed exposure about some
:37:35. > :37:42.expenses claims. He'd lost his much-loved precede with news of his
:37:42. > :37:45.personal life plastered over the papers. David Laws joins me now. I
:37:45. > :37:50.would like to talk to you first about the economy. You are one of
:37:50. > :37:55.the architects of the recovery plan. A year on, no growth, their jobs.
:37:55. > :37:59.It's failed, hasn't it? I do not think so. We have been doing the
:37:59. > :38:03.things we needed to do to get on top of the horrendous boring
:38:03. > :38:08.position week inherited. We could not go on pouring at that rate.
:38:08. > :38:13.What we have done is started to rein back on spending. -- we could
:38:13. > :38:17.not go on borrowing at that rate. For Britain and the world economy,
:38:17. > :38:23.it has been a very difficult year. We have had a huge increase in
:38:23. > :38:27.energy prices, food prices, we have had careers in the European Union
:38:27. > :38:32.with the rest of sovereign default, and in the United States of America.
:38:32. > :38:37.There is undoubtedly a growth problem. I spoke to you a year ago
:38:37. > :38:43.adduce that things would go rather well. They have not. Well, there
:38:43. > :38:48.has been a net creation of jobs in the economy since the general
:38:48. > :38:51.election last year. Borrowing is starting to fall, which is to be
:38:51. > :38:55.hugely welcomed. We are in a much better position for the future than
:38:55. > :39:00.we would otherwise have been. We have stability in United Kingdom
:39:00. > :39:04.compared with the market in the other parts of the EU, where there
:39:04. > :39:08.is huge amounts of speculation, high interest rates, threat of
:39:08. > :39:13.sovereign default. Even America as had a downgrading of its credit
:39:13. > :39:16.rating. Time for Plan B? I do not think so. That implies we should
:39:16. > :39:21.throw out of the window our attempts to get borrowing under
:39:21. > :39:27.control, and to rein back on spending. I think that would be a
:39:27. > :39:32.bad idea and create deeper problems further down. The government has to
:39:32. > :39:36.do all the other things it can do to support the plan it has got,
:39:36. > :39:40.plan a. That means doing more to get investment through and cash
:39:40. > :39:43.through from the banking system to businesses that have good
:39:43. > :39:48.investment plans, creating incentives to bring forward
:39:48. > :39:52.investment now, so we encourage many of those firms with good cash
:39:53. > :39:56.positions, and reduce the burdens on business. We have to focus this
:39:56. > :39:59.autumn and doing everything we can to support growth while sticking
:39:59. > :40:03.with the strategy of getting rid of this mountain of debt we were left
:40:03. > :40:09.by Labour. Do you want to be part of the team that pushes that
:40:09. > :40:13.through? Is it time for you to make a comeback? I think that is a
:40:13. > :40:19.relatively minor issue, the future of David Laws, compared with the
:40:19. > :40:27.economy. Interesting to ask. What do you have plans? I do not have
:40:27. > :40:34.plans. It is not for me to decide what my position is. I am still a
:40:34. > :40:41.big position -- I am still a big supporter in the government. I will
:40:41. > :40:44.support that government in whatever capacity I can. You when the thick
:40:44. > :40:50.of it when the coalition deal was being hammered out between the Lib
:40:50. > :40:55.Dems and the Conservatives. The latest polls suggest you are
:40:55. > :40:59.running at 9% in terms of support. It has not been good for the Lib
:40:59. > :41:03.Dems. If it goes on like this, we will be waved goodbye to quite a
:41:03. > :41:09.few West Country Lib Dem MPs. of all, we have a five-year
:41:09. > :41:14.parliament. Let's wait to see what happens. If you were advising any
:41:14. > :41:18.you wanna be MPs about how to fight an election in future, what advice
:41:18. > :41:22.would you give them? Would you advise them to be up front for the
:41:22. > :41:26.electorate? I think so. I made mistakes in trying to keep my
:41:26. > :41:32.private life private. I think that was a mistake. It was the
:41:32. > :41:38.consequences of trying to maintain that precede that made things
:41:38. > :41:44.difficult for me -- trying to maintain that privacy. I think that
:41:44. > :41:50.advice about honesty and transparency is the advice others
:41:50. > :41:54.ought to be looking to. Are you happier now? I would not say the
:41:54. > :41:59.last year has been particularly joyous. It has been difficult.
:41:59. > :42:03.Those things that behind me, and I am focusing on doing my job as MP
:42:03. > :42:09.for Yeovil. My constituents have been extremely supportive during
:42:09. > :42:19.this time. I want to repay that I do my job to the best of my
:42:19. > :42:19.
:42:19. > :42:26.abilities. I want to do what I can to make sure this government does
:42:26. > :42:31.well in what are very difficult circumstances. OK. Thank you for
:42:31. > :42:35.coming on the programme. His's a pleasure. Thank you.
:42:35. > :42:38.Last week, we were all remembering where we were when those planes hit
:42:38. > :42:42.the twin towers exactly 10 years ago. Our next guest, General Sir
:42:42. > :42:46.Mike Jackson, was in charge of the British army through many of the
:42:46. > :42:56.events that followed. He now lives in Wiltshire, and we'll be meeting
:42:56. > :43:02.
:43:02. > :43:09.him soon. First, let's look back at 10 years of conflict.
:43:09. > :43:14.The day they say changed the world. The shockwaves felt all the way
:43:14. > :43:24.here in the west. And a new role for our armed forces At war in
:43:24. > :43:24.
:43:24. > :43:27.afghanistan. 1st Battalion Rifles are there now. Another soldier was
:43:27. > :43:34.lost this week. Since then, the people of Wootton
:43:35. > :43:44.Bassett have been remembering every lost life. 2003, and another war,
:43:44. > :43:48.this time in Iraq. And demos on our streets in the west against the
:43:48. > :43:52.invasion. 40 commando Royal Marines based near Taunton were some of the
:43:52. > :43:58.first in action. This man, General Sir Mike Jackson, was in charge of
:43:58. > :44:01.the army. He's been outspoken about our role in the conflict. And now
:44:01. > :44:07.the need to save money meaning budget cuts to the army, and more
:44:07. > :44:12.troops to be axed. For the 1st Battallion, the fight goes on in
:44:12. > :44:15.Afghanistan. Next month will mark the 10th anniversary of the
:44:15. > :44:19.invasion. The war on terror still ongoing.
:44:19. > :44:27.We've seen him in that film. Now let's talk to him. General Sir Mike
:44:27. > :44:35.Jackson, thank you for joining us. Then 10 years ago, you were in the
:44:35. > :44:43.thick of vet after September 11th, rushing back to gritter -- you were
:44:43. > :44:47.in the thick of it. You're rushing back to Britain. Have you ever
:44:47. > :44:54.thought, perhaps I should have done something else? In broad terms, as
:44:54. > :45:01.I look back, no. Not forgetting, it is the duty of the armed forces to
:45:01. > :45:07.follow the direction other duly elected government of the day. They
:45:07. > :45:15.have the awesome responsibility of taking decisions about whether or
:45:15. > :45:18.not to use military force. It is our job to give military advice,
:45:18. > :45:22.but the decision-making rests with the politicians. I think what you
:45:22. > :45:27.were asking his, looking back error with those 10 years, should we have
:45:27. > :45:32.done the things we did? -- looking back a move that those 10 years. I
:45:32. > :45:37.am not going to second guess in retrospect. Hindsight is wonderful.
:45:37. > :45:41.Things can seem very serious and grave, as they did. I am interested
:45:41. > :45:46.in his relationship with politicians. He added 45 years in
:45:46. > :45:52.the army. Most of our politicians have not done any time. -- you did
:45:52. > :46:02.45 years in the army. Did you sometimes find it difficult to take
:46:02. > :46:05.
:46:05. > :46:12.orders from these guys? I do not think I did. Why do I say that? As
:46:12. > :46:20.a soldier, you understand what the constitutional position is. As you
:46:20. > :46:23.get higher up, that political and military interface becomes more
:46:23. > :46:29.part of your life. At the end of the day, if you're asked to do
:46:29. > :46:35.something, with which you disagree, you can put your advice forward to
:46:35. > :46:39.say, I do not think this a good idea, but one that is done, you
:46:39. > :46:42.really only have two courses. One is to bite your lip and get on with
:46:42. > :46:47.it, because it is your constitutional duty. The other is
:46:47. > :46:51.to say, you'll have to find someone else to do this. What would you say
:46:51. > :46:58.about the reductions in defence spending, particularly the cuts in
:46:58. > :47:04.manpower within the army? 7,000 fewer troops by 2015. Yes. The Army
:47:04. > :47:10.I joined in late 1961 was just under 200,000, if my memory serves
:47:10. > :47:18.me correctly. We now have an army which is half, and going to be a
:47:18. > :47:24.little more than the less than half of that number. The Cold War is
:47:24. > :47:31.over. I have concerned. I always thought for our country, the sort
:47:31. > :47:37.of size we are at with the global responsibilities that we have
:47:37. > :47:44.undertaken, that an army of around 100,000, a regular Armley of around
:47:45. > :47:52.100,000, was about right. -- a regular army of about 100,000. We
:47:52. > :47:57.are now looking at an army, both regular and reserves, of about
:47:57. > :48:04.125,000. You amalgamated regiments famously when you were the boss.
:48:04. > :48:09.What will happen to deal with these cut? The structure of the infantry
:48:09. > :48:16.is almost a subset of this. I am sure there is not time to rehearse
:48:16. > :48:22.the arguments for putting the infantry and a large regiment basis,
:48:22. > :48:27.which is what happened in the middle of the last decade. On the
:48:27. > :48:31.assumption that the army is going to shrink by some 7,000, there
:48:31. > :48:41.about, it is inevitable the infantry would have to take their
:48:41. > :48:46.
:48:46. > :48:52.share. Proportionally, that would be around 2,500. The Army Board
:48:52. > :48:57.will have to look again at how to reduce the infantry without causing
:48:57. > :49:03.too much pain and grief. It is not an easy job, I assure you.
:49:03. > :49:08.finally, we have seen the riots in London and elsewhere, some copycat
:49:08. > :49:12.stuff here in the West Country, and people have said what the youth of
:49:12. > :49:16.today meets, some people have said, his National Service. As a
:49:16. > :49:22.professional soldier, what do you think of that? I am afraid not a
:49:22. > :49:27.great deal. It seems to me you can have one of two things. You can
:49:27. > :49:33.either have a fighting Armed Forces with real military capability are
:49:33. > :49:40.you can have a form of sort of uniform social service. I am not
:49:40. > :49:45.sure you can have both in one organisation. I would entirely
:49:45. > :49:51.encouraged to keep the armed forces professional as they are. If
:49:51. > :49:57.separately, the mood of the country or whatever is that youngsters
:49:57. > :50:06.should have some form of hierarchical organisation,
:50:06. > :50:10.disciplined organisation to which they must be members for a few
:50:10. > :50:15.months, a year, I do not know, that is a different issue. That should
:50:16. > :50:21.be set up as something different to the Armed Forces, and apart from.
:50:22. > :50:26.Otherwise, our military capability would suffer quite grievously.
:50:26. > :50:29.General Sir Mike Jackson, thank you very much for joining us.
:50:29. > :50:32.Back now to civvy street. Expensive and unnecessary, or a
:50:32. > :50:34.vital part of any big council? There are some starkly differing
:50:34. > :50:39.views of the role of chief executives in local government
:50:39. > :50:42.around the West. Wiltshire are getting rid of theirs. After a long
:50:42. > :50:47.hard look, neighbours Bath and North East Somerset are keeping
:50:47. > :50:57.theirs. Paul Barltrop reports. Two big councils. Two different
:50:57. > :51:01.looks. The old and traditional. The new and changing.
:51:01. > :51:04.Here in Trowbridge they've got builders in. Wiltshire is
:51:04. > :51:09.refurbishing headquarters so they can bring more staff in and cut
:51:09. > :51:12.down the number of offices. Like many local authorities, they're
:51:12. > :51:15.learning to do things very differently, but no comparable
:51:15. > :51:18.councils in the west have gone so far as to get rid of their chief
:51:18. > :51:21.executive. Andrew Kerr was only appointed to
:51:21. > :51:25.the job 20 months ago by council leader Jane Scott. Relations seemed
:51:25. > :51:33.good. At this budget briefing last year, they were confident about the
:51:33. > :51:37.cuts to come. But now he's become the latest casualty. He has done an
:51:37. > :51:42.excellent job. He has left this council in a really good position,
:51:42. > :51:48.a strong position, and a position which we can go down this radical
:51:48. > :51:51.change. If he is that good, why not keep him? We have to make the
:51:52. > :51:57.decision whether we keep the money in frontline services or whether we
:51:57. > :52:00.get rid of some of our corporate capacity.
:52:00. > :52:07.Instead of one chief executive and four corporate directors, the plan
:52:07. > :52:11.is for Wiltshire to have three, and no one above them.
:52:11. > :52:17.When you have lots of senior people on the same man, sometimes it takes
:52:17. > :52:20.one person to say now. They can always be two against one, and that
:52:20. > :52:23.will make the decision. The man who'll lose his job sees it
:52:23. > :52:33.differently. Andrew Kerr warns Wiltshire may come to regret it. He
:52:33. > :52:33.
:52:33. > :52:39.certainly does. I believe we have done a very good job, and I believe
:52:39. > :52:44.that that model is the best for local government. There are a
:52:44. > :52:50.number of councils trying to run without a chief executive, they
:52:50. > :52:52.have all gone back to running with a chief executive eventually forced
:52:52. > :52:54.stop. Opposition councillors and unions
:52:54. > :53:00.who'd previously criticised the chief executive's pay now worry
:53:00. > :53:04.about his departure. If the proposals go through, it will leave
:53:04. > :53:10.us with a Soviet Star troika of three individuals responsible for
:53:10. > :53:17.collectively running the council -- Soviet style troika. Nobody will be
:53:17. > :53:23.in charge. I cannot conceive of a situation were set care �1 billion
:53:23. > :53:27.organisation a year can run without someone at the helm. -- I cannot
:53:27. > :53:31.conceive of a situation where around �1 billion organisation ear
:53:31. > :53:34.can run without someone at the helm. Down the road in Bath, tradition
:53:34. > :53:41.has trumped change. Bath and North East somerset council has also
:53:41. > :53:47.looked at losing its top officer. On Thursday they decided against.
:53:47. > :53:51.There are other models around and we consider them all. We concluded,
:53:51. > :53:55.across parties and senior management, with the unions, but
:53:55. > :53:58.for Bath and North-East Somerset, we were happier with a chief
:53:58. > :54:00.executive model. But others see it differently. Two
:54:00. > :54:07.decades ago, John Redwood was a local government minister. He's
:54:07. > :54:11.been a councillor. Nowadays, he's an outspoken critic of the top job.
:54:11. > :54:15.It is an excellent idea. I do not think you need a chief executive in
:54:15. > :54:18.a council. A chief executive and the private sector is men are
:54:18. > :54:22.responsible for getting revenue in, and making sure the company is
:54:22. > :54:25.selling enough. You do have to do that a council. You just send
:54:25. > :54:32.people to prison if they do not paid the bill you demand. They job
:54:32. > :54:38.pay strategy -- they draw up a strategy, but that is decided by
:54:38. > :54:41.politicians. They might control the costs. In my experience, most chief
:54:41. > :54:43.executives of councils do not do that anyway.
:54:43. > :54:46.Back in Wiltshire, the council's transformation is well under way.
:54:46. > :54:49.We'll be able to guage its success once the building work's finished
:54:49. > :54:54.in 2014. We'll see the impact of its new management structure much
:54:54. > :54:57.earlier. Finally, today, news the west is to
:54:57. > :55:00.lose an MP in a shake-up of our constituency boundaries. The
:55:00. > :55:03.government wants to reduce the number of MPs in Parliament by 50.
:55:03. > :55:13.That means one seat would go by changing boundaries in Wiltshire
:55:13. > :55:14.
:55:14. > :55:23.and Dorset, with one constituency straddling the border.
:55:23. > :55:26.principle we are doing means that roads are more equal weight. Even
:55:26. > :55:30.the Labour Party do not disagree with the principle. Colleagues need
:55:30. > :55:37.to hold on to that, deal with the inevitable difficulties without
:55:37. > :55:40.falling out, then I think colleagues will support this.
:55:40. > :55:46.And that's it from the west this week. The Politics Show continues
:55:46. > :55:49.with Jo Coburn in London and Andrew Neil in Birmingham. Next week, it's
:55:49. > :55:56.Labour's turn to hold their conference. We'll be talking to the
:55:56. > :55:59.Bristol South MP Dawn Primarolo. If you want to get in touch with your