0:00:39 > 0:00:44A in the West: a protest over plans to change the parliamentary
0:00:44 > 0:00:47boundaries - will it mean MPs won't know where they are? And the latest
0:00:47 > 0:00:57wheeze from health and safety. Ramblers are being given advice on
0:00:57 > 0:00:57
0:00:57 > 0:38:03Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2225 seconds
0:38:03 > 0:38:06Good afternoon. Welcome to the part of the show which brings you the
0:38:06 > 0:38:11politics from the West Country. This week, do you know where you
0:38:11 > 0:38:13are? Well, hold tight because you may be about to move! The
0:38:13 > 0:38:18parliamentary boundaries are changing. Even Gloucester Cathedral
0:38:18 > 0:38:23will now be in part of the Forest of Dean of the plans go ahead.
0:38:23 > 0:38:33And, have politicians let red tape go mad? How the risk of being sued
0:38:33 > 0:38:36
0:38:36 > 0:38:44is forcing ramblers do full at -- to fill out a form before going for
0:38:44 > 0:38:49a walk. A would be terribly sad if it affected people going for a walk.
0:38:49 > 0:38:53Hello. There are plans to get rid of 50 MPs to slim down the House of
0:38:53 > 0:38:56Commons. But hang on a second before you start cheering, there
0:38:56 > 0:39:00may be some unlikely consequences because protesters are claiming
0:39:00 > 0:39:04that it is West Country voters that will lose out. Let's look at the
0:39:04 > 0:39:08proposals. Wiltshire and Dorset will end up with one of few MP
0:39:08 > 0:39:12between them, and controversially, the plans include a seat which
0:39:12 > 0:39:16crosses the county line. The old Avon and Somerset area could have
0:39:16 > 0:39:20lots of changes, and more seats would struggle council boundaries
0:39:20 > 0:39:24so MPs could be caught in the middle -- straddle. The biggest
0:39:24 > 0:39:28change is in Gloucester, where an area around the cathedral would be
0:39:28 > 0:39:37moved into the Forest of Dean. For once, all the main parties are
0:39:37 > 0:39:41agreed that they don't like it. People from across the political
0:39:41 > 0:39:47spectrum were there, even the Monster Raving Loony Party think it
0:39:47 > 0:39:50is mad. On Friday, they marched in protest. After 700 years of having
0:39:50 > 0:39:54a Gloucester MP, the city's historic heart could be torn out
0:39:54 > 0:40:00and given to the Forest of Dean. The Boundary Commission's ideas
0:40:00 > 0:40:05drops like a bombshell two months ago. A I was aghast. Our city
0:40:05 > 0:40:09centre has been here over 2000 years, and being class does not in
0:40:09 > 0:40:13Gloucester any more? It does does not make sense. I represent the
0:40:13 > 0:40:17area of west gate on the county council. It has been here for 2000
0:40:17 > 0:40:25years. It is the area we defended during the English Civil War, and
0:40:25 > 0:40:31it is a ridiculous proposition. Ladies and gentlemen... For weeks,
0:40:31 > 0:40:35they have been building a campaign. Our protest against the ridiculous
0:40:35 > 0:40:39boundary commission's decision. whole of the west side of the city
0:40:39 > 0:40:43is actually going to go over to the Forest of Dean, which is crazy.
0:40:43 > 0:40:47Leading it has been this local businessman, who is adamant that
0:40:47 > 0:40:52one voice must be for the city's commercial district. It is not a
0:40:52 > 0:40:55physical move, but psychologically it will be a move. You cannot have
0:40:55 > 0:40:59an MP that represents the Forest of Dean actually representing business
0:41:00 > 0:41:04and commerce and the general public here in the city itself. We want
0:41:04 > 0:41:08our own way of doing things. will be hunting wild boar in the
0:41:08 > 0:41:12forest. We have got a few wild boars on the Boundary Commission!
0:41:12 > 0:41:15Everyone seems to agree, but few understand why this has come about.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18One reason the Boundary Commission want to move the very heart of
0:41:18 > 0:41:23Gloucester, including the cathedral, into the Forest of Dean
0:41:23 > 0:41:26constituency, is its simplicity. Around here there are too many
0:41:27 > 0:41:34voters, but on the other side of the river in the forest, there are
0:41:34 > 0:41:39too few. One ward between them, and it is job done.
0:41:39 > 0:41:42Ironically, the Forest's own MP is a government minister helping steer
0:41:42 > 0:41:47the changes through Parliament. He does not want to become the target
0:41:47 > 0:41:50for local anger. I can see the concerns that people have expressed,
0:41:50 > 0:41:55but the difficulty is you cannot just say you don't like it, but you
0:41:55 > 0:41:57must set out what the alternative could be. It will take a wide --
0:41:57 > 0:42:03while to work out what the alternatives might be to see if
0:42:03 > 0:42:08they are practical. Backing Gloucester, the Conservative MP
0:42:08 > 0:42:13tries to work a -- what a careful line, supporting the wider changes,
0:42:13 > 0:42:16but not be lost a proposals. So, he has drawn up an alternative. I will
0:42:16 > 0:42:21be giving it verbally on Monday to the boundaries Commission in
0:42:21 > 0:42:28Bristol. I hope you will be there. It is a great case and a good
0:42:28 > 0:42:34proposal, and I hope the Boundary Commission buys it. As somebody
0:42:34 > 0:42:37said once, the MP for Tewkesbury would disagree, wouldn't he? Other
0:42:37 > 0:42:41options for levelling out constituencies would also caused
0:42:42 > 0:42:47controversy. Some reckon that the new rules are too restricting.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50think the legislation is just too mathematical. It is not taking into
0:42:50 > 0:42:54account local feeling and local sentiment. Tomorrow they will have
0:42:54 > 0:42:58the chance to go face-to-face in this row, and the Boundary
0:42:58 > 0:43:02Commission come West. Two days of hearings will be held in Bristol,
0:43:02 > 0:43:07and it could be pretty lively. I'm joined by the Conservative MP
0:43:07 > 0:43:11for South Swindon, Robert Buckland, and former member MP for Stroud,
0:43:11 > 0:43:17David Drew. First of all, what is the Government doing tried to get
0:43:17 > 0:43:20rid of 50 MPs? The rationale is to equalise the number of people
0:43:21 > 0:43:25represented by each MP. At the moment, you have MPs representing
0:43:25 > 0:43:30as many as 80,000 or even more people in one part of the country,
0:43:30 > 0:43:35and then you have MPs representing under 60,000 in another part.
0:43:35 > 0:43:41it matter? I don't think it is fair. You represent Swindon South and
0:43:41 > 0:43:46Swindon North. Why do we need to MPs? Swindon is a large town. I
0:43:46 > 0:43:50represent nearly 74,000 people and Justin Thomas and represents 78,000
0:43:50 > 0:43:55people, and yet other MPs in other parts of the country represent
0:43:55 > 0:44:00substantially fewer numbers, particularly in Wales where their
0:44:00 > 0:44:06MPs representing 50,000. In America they represent hundreds of
0:44:06 > 0:44:09thousands. I am not advocating that we simply -- suddenly go to super
0:44:09 > 0:44:14sized constituencies. I think that the numbers we have in Swindon are
0:44:14 > 0:44:17about right. MPs can be sufficiently local, sufficiently
0:44:17 > 0:44:21tied into their constituency and in touch to represent a number of
0:44:21 > 0:44:25people. I think it is all about fairness. David, you are hoping to
0:44:25 > 0:44:31get back in in Stroud. How would these changes affect that
0:44:31 > 0:44:37constituency? My voters go from Stroud in to the Cotswolds, so it
0:44:37 > 0:44:39is not a great change. But the real issue is what happens to Westgate
0:44:39 > 0:44:44ward in Gloucester where you get the nonsense that the cathedral,
0:44:44 > 0:44:49the centre of the city, the rugby club and so one, are all being
0:44:49 > 0:44:54moved into the Forest of Dean, and that has caused huge resentment.
0:44:54 > 0:44:59The city is really important as an entity, and you cannot just
0:44:59 > 0:45:02suddenly pick up the centre and drop it into another constituency.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05The issue for the Boundary Commission is that there are going
0:45:05 > 0:45:08to be difficult decisions to be made, and I accept that there will
0:45:09 > 0:45:12be some local examples where people will feel rather bemused, to say
0:45:12 > 0:45:16the least, about some of these decisions. But there is a chance
0:45:16 > 0:45:23for people to make representations. They are not set in stone, so some
0:45:23 > 0:45:27of these glitches can be ironed out. Is there an answer? Other ideas
0:45:27 > 0:45:32have been put forward, but the problem is that if it is just a
0:45:32 > 0:45:35numbers game, I don't mind equalising at some of the nonsense
0:45:35 > 0:45:39where you have got very small constituencies and very large
0:45:40 > 0:45:44numbers of electors being represented by one MP, but the
0:45:44 > 0:45:48problem is that place does matter in politics. People associate with
0:45:48 > 0:45:52Gloucester, they associate with Stroud. If you put a line through
0:45:52 > 0:45:56part of it and tell people that they are moving to another
0:45:56 > 0:45:59constituency, this happened last time in the Stroud consistency and
0:45:59 > 0:46:08those voters resent to this day... Well, it gets confusing, doesn't
0:46:08 > 0:46:12it? Bristol East was at the last Boundary Change, and now it has
0:46:12 > 0:46:16been moved out. People don't know whether they are coming or going.
0:46:16 > 0:46:19You need a system that is responsible -- responsive to
0:46:19 > 0:46:23population change. The current system will respond every 10 or 15
0:46:23 > 0:46:28years, and it would lead to substantial anomalies. You would
0:46:28 > 0:46:32end up with seas but very low populations, returning MPs who then
0:46:32 > 0:46:38have an equal say with MPs who have very large numbers, and I do not
0:46:38 > 0:46:43think that is fair. One of the big concerns is that it straddles
0:46:43 > 0:46:46county boundaries, in one case. So, you could have an MP who needs to
0:46:46 > 0:46:50fight for one area on one hand, and then fight for another as well. How
0:46:50 > 0:46:56does that work? You have got to compare it with MPs who, for
0:46:56 > 0:47:00example, have different councils and different layers of government.
0:47:00 > 0:47:03Having to deal with one body and then another body at a different
0:47:03 > 0:47:07level. I don't think that is too much of a problem. There are plenty
0:47:07 > 0:47:13of examples where County Band -- county boundaries are already
0:47:13 > 0:47:17crossed. It is a good MP who makes sure they are reflecting a swathe
0:47:17 > 0:47:22of the constituency, wherever they are. I would love to be at the
0:47:22 > 0:47:26Boundary Commission inquiry hearing for Devon and Cornwall. The MP
0:47:26 > 0:47:31there is going to be in an impossible position. Interestingly,
0:47:31 > 0:47:36though, the boundary changes will benefit the Conservatives.
0:47:36 > 0:47:38knows. You must be very pleased. There are a couple of Conservative
0:47:38 > 0:47:42seats that will disappear, and I am sure that some of my colleagues
0:47:42 > 0:47:47will have to fight each other to get nominations. I'm not sure it
0:47:48 > 0:47:54favours anyone particularly. Well, don't fight because it is against
0:47:54 > 0:47:58health and safety rules. More on that in a moment or two.
0:47:58 > 0:48:02There has been good news for councils and the West that had
0:48:02 > 0:48:06money tied up in collapsed Icelandic banks. I stand's Supreme
0:48:06 > 0:48:11Court has ruled they to be almost entirely repaid. Local councils
0:48:11 > 0:48:14including Bristol, Somerset and Gloucester had �60 million invested
0:48:15 > 0:48:19in banks which failed three years ago. Some money has already been
0:48:19 > 0:48:24repaid, but councils will now get priority over other creditors for
0:48:24 > 0:48:27the rest. A protester campaigning for a fair
0:48:27 > 0:48:31economy has set up camp in a Somerset churchyard. Here's the
0:48:31 > 0:48:39latest member of the occupy campaign, who have also set up
0:48:39 > 0:48:42camps in Bristol, on College Green, and in Bath in Queen's Square. The
0:48:42 > 0:48:4559-year-old Company Directors said he was compelled by what he saw at
0:48:45 > 0:48:50St Paul's Cathedral in London and said he wanted to do something. He
0:48:50 > 0:48:53has been at St Mary's churchyard in Taunton since Thursday evening,
0:48:53 > 0:48:57although he popped home when we went to film him.
0:48:57 > 0:49:01If you're thinking for -- of going for a nice relaxing afternoon
0:49:01 > 0:49:04stroll, have you considered reading the official health and safety
0:49:04 > 0:49:09guidelines from the Ramblers Association? Crews from youth club
0:49:09 > 0:49:13disco also the blame and claim culture is stopping us taking part
0:49:13 > 0:49:20in simple activities. Now the Government is promising to Tasha --
0:49:20 > 0:49:23tackle the issue. Life is very different from
0:49:23 > 0:49:28yesteryear. Those idyllic childhoods of football in the
0:49:28 > 0:49:31street, climbing trees, and being able to roam free. Roll on 50 years,
0:49:31 > 0:49:35and whether it be at work or at play, there are more rules and
0:49:35 > 0:49:42regulations than ever before. In some schools, playing football with
0:49:42 > 0:49:47a leather ball is outlawed. Conkers - the once great playtime activity,
0:49:47 > 0:49:52but for some head teachers, it is just too risky. So, they forced the
0:49:52 > 0:49:56kit to wear safety goggles. And, Hamid times have you seen people
0:49:56 > 0:50:00wearing high-visibility jackets and hard hats? And is it really
0:50:00 > 0:50:05necessary, or is it the fear of being sued the reason for the
0:50:05 > 0:50:08caution? The independent body responsible for looking after us in
0:50:08 > 0:50:12the workplace is the Health and Safety Executive. We are concerned
0:50:12 > 0:50:16with real risks in the workplace. That is why they want to stop
0:50:16 > 0:50:21people using health and safety as their excuse when it is actually
0:50:21 > 0:50:27something else. Have you had an accident at work that was not your
0:50:27 > 0:50:31fault? Did you trip or slip? Or, have you been in a road traffic
0:50:31 > 0:50:35collision? But, as we all know through the adverts, where there is
0:50:35 > 0:50:40a blame, there is a claim. Unless we win your case, you won't pay a
0:50:40 > 0:50:44penny... Almost everyone is affected. Organisations like the
0:50:44 > 0:50:48BBC ensure their staff fill in risk assessment forms to protect the
0:50:48 > 0:50:51employer and the employee. But that is no great surprise. But the red
0:50:51 > 0:50:59tape is also affecting organisations like the Ramblers,
0:51:00 > 0:51:03too. Somehow it started and it has gathered its own momentum. You know,
0:51:03 > 0:51:06because there is a slight risk, people are terrified of not doing
0:51:07 > 0:51:10it in case they get sued if something goes wrong. It would be
0:51:10 > 0:51:14terribly sad if it affected people just going for a walk. You know,
0:51:14 > 0:51:19you might get stung by a bee and you have got to watch out for
0:51:19 > 0:51:24what's underfoot and not trouble over things and so on. Walking is
0:51:24 > 0:51:28about the safety is activity there is. If you do the risk assessment
0:51:28 > 0:51:33and conclude the workplace is low risk, then carry on doing what
0:51:33 > 0:51:39you're doing and keep paperwork to a minimum. Paperwork does not save
0:51:39 > 0:51:42lives, it protects bottoms. Even in a protective environment of a youth
0:51:42 > 0:51:48club, there are now more roles than ever before. Forms have to be
0:51:48 > 0:51:52filled in, even if you want a game of table tennis. The more risky the
0:51:52 > 0:52:01stock -- sport is classed as, the longer the risk assessment is. We
0:52:01 > 0:52:06have got one that are two pages long. Something like table tennis?
0:52:06 > 0:52:11We have to think about the surrounding area. Whether there are
0:52:11 > 0:52:20any tripping hazards on the floor, or spillages that people could fall
0:52:20 > 0:52:26over on. We all have to cover our backs because otherwise somebody
0:52:26 > 0:52:31could come and see you. We are all into the searing culture, the
0:52:31 > 0:52:34American think where if you can get money for something because little
0:52:34 > 0:52:39Jimmy has fallen over and cut himself and somebody is negligent,
0:52:39 > 0:52:42then they will do it. From eight youth club in
0:52:42 > 0:52:48Gloucestershire to Whitehall, it seems the message has got through
0:52:48 > 0:52:51but there is far too much red tape. I have decided to reform a no-win
0:52:51 > 0:52:55no-fee arrangements to stop the perverse situation where fear of
0:52:55 > 0:52:59excess costs sometimes forces defendants to settle, even when
0:52:59 > 0:53:04they know they are in the right. I can therefore announced that the
0:53:04 > 0:53:09Government will seek legislation to return the no win no fee system to
0:53:09 > 0:53:12the first principles on which it was first set up. So, can
0:53:12 > 0:53:18legislation really reclaim the freedoms we once enjoyed, or will
0:53:18 > 0:53:22it take more than the Government to keep the claims culture -- kick the
0:53:22 > 0:53:26claims culture into touch? Still here, safely buckled on to
0:53:26 > 0:53:31their chairs, a Conservative MP for South Swindon Robert Buckland, and
0:53:31 > 0:53:37former Labour MP for Stroud, David Drew. David, all this seemed to
0:53:37 > 0:53:40grow up under Labour. None of us want to see the ambulance-chasing
0:53:40 > 0:53:43that is going on, particularly at these law firms that seem to spend
0:53:43 > 0:53:51the whole of their daytime television sticking their adverts
0:53:51 > 0:53:56in. But the nanny state. It is partly eight rural myth. I would be
0:53:56 > 0:54:00very worried if ramblers really do fill in lots of forms. It is
0:54:00 > 0:54:04interesting that the countryside way acted reduce the level of risk
0:54:04 > 0:54:09in the way that landowners up until that time were responsible for
0:54:09 > 0:54:18people were killed -- walking on their land. But volunteers now are
0:54:18 > 0:54:22terrified of organising any event. Some are, and we have got to be
0:54:22 > 0:54:28very careful about this mythology that has grown up. It does actually
0:54:28 > 0:54:34do more damage. In your other life, you are a barrister -- barrister,
0:54:34 > 0:54:39aren't you? That's right. So, no win any -- no-win no-fee deals.
0:54:39 > 0:54:43What do you think of that? The system was brought in in 1995, but
0:54:43 > 0:54:47it was Tweet by the last Labour government, and I think that the
0:54:47 > 0:54:50change they made it did open the door to more aggressive claims by
0:54:51 > 0:54:53claimants and solicitors, because it allowed solicitors to claim a
0:54:53 > 0:54:58success fees from the cost, and also to claim the value of
0:54:58 > 0:55:01insurance. What the Government is doing is said -- saying there needs
0:55:01 > 0:55:05to be a rebalancing of the system back to the way it was before
0:55:05 > 0:55:12Labour changed it. There is a tradition of lawyers working for
0:55:12 > 0:55:17nothing and helping people to get into court and so on. How are
0:55:17 > 0:55:23people going to take on big corporations if they fear huge
0:55:23 > 0:55:27costs? There will still be a system. It will be the system we brought in
0:55:27 > 0:55:30in 1995. In fact, there will be an uplifting in the value of damages
0:55:31 > 0:55:34to allow for recovery of various costs. Without being too technical,
0:55:34 > 0:55:38I think the system will be read balanced so that we don't end up
0:55:38 > 0:55:42with this rather aggressive culture that has grown up, and that is
0:55:42 > 0:55:46causing the sort of fear that is resulting in a vast increase in
0:55:46 > 0:55:50paperwork that organisations have seen. But there is not easy access
0:55:50 > 0:55:54to legal aid, is there? No, and that is one of the bad things that
0:55:54 > 0:55:59his coalition government has done. What I don't want to see is the
0:55:59 > 0:56:04risk of people have got a genuine claim, for example someone who may
0:56:04 > 0:56:08have suffered from asbestosis from the impact of asbestos at work, not
0:56:08 > 0:56:13being able to go to court to get a vindication of the fact that they
0:56:13 > 0:56:17have been badly treated. Legal aid for civil cases, apart from a good
0:56:17 > 0:56:21-- medical rate -- medical negligence, went out years ago.
0:56:21 > 0:56:25This is not an issue can start bashing the coalition over the head
0:56:25 > 0:56:28about. You have to look at the litigation, and also the health and
0:56:28 > 0:56:34safety culture, which is why the Government's review, which is
0:56:34 > 0:56:37coming out in a week or so's time, will be looking at issues to do
0:56:37 > 0:56:42with health and safety regulations and how we'd make them simpler and
0:56:42 > 0:56:46more co-ordinated. The lady on the film made a good point when she
0:56:46 > 0:56:49said that the Health and Safety Executive is effectively fed up as
0:56:49 > 0:56:52being used as an excuse for individuals to say we can't do that
0:56:52 > 0:56:57because of health and safety. What changes other government planning
0:56:57 > 0:56:59to make? There is an independent review being conducted by an
0:56:59 > 0:57:03academic from King's College and it will report in a week's time. He's
0:57:03 > 0:57:09talking about things like gold plating of Euro regulations - why
0:57:09 > 0:57:12do we do that? Should we stop at practice? How do we make
0:57:12 > 0:57:20accessibility to the regulations easier? They are all over the place.
0:57:20 > 0:57:24Try and consolidate them. And also, focus upon, as the lady said,
0:57:24 > 0:57:28serious risk. The HSE has resources but it cannot cover everything, and
0:57:28 > 0:57:32an should only look at the very serious cases. We have to leave it
0:57:32 > 0:57:36there. Thank you for coming in. Mind how you go!
0:57:36 > 0:57:40That's it from the West. The Politics Show will continue with