:00:11. > :00:21.It's conference season. Nick Clegg has had a year he might like to
:00:21. > :00:33.
:00:33. > :00:37.And here in the north, as crisis hits Europe, we meet their
:00:37. > :00:41.campaigners demanding a referendum on a break with Brussels.
:00:41. > :00:51.And a former chocolate boss tells us why family businesses should be
:00:51. > :00:51.
:00:51. > :36:19.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2127 seconds
:36:19. > :36:25.Welcome to end-use series of the Politics Show in Yorkshire and
:36:25. > :36:29.Lincolnshire. Coming up today... As the euro-zone crisis grows, we
:36:29. > :36:35.meet the campaigners to say it is time for a referendum on whether we
:36:35. > :36:36.should break away from Brussels. It's Mr Cameron expand the
:36:36. > :36:41.politicians need to ask what we think.
:36:42. > :36:45.It is time we were asked. And the former chocolate boss tells
:36:46. > :36:52.us why the Liberal Democrats should make family businesses the focus of
:36:52. > :37:00.their economic policy. This is what I what the government to do. To
:37:00. > :37:03.create the environment, which is very supportive to family business.
:37:03. > :37:10.With the financial crisis in the euro-zone dominating the news
:37:10. > :37:13.agenda, is now the right time to reassess our membership of the EU?
:37:13. > :37:17.Thousands of people across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire have
:37:17. > :37:22.signed online petitions calling for a referendum on whether we should
:37:22. > :37:32.leave the EU. But political opinion remains divided over whether we
:37:32. > :37:37.would be better off out. For as European leaders fight to save the
:37:37. > :37:44.single currency, a very different battle is being waged by those who
:37:44. > :37:49.believe our political future lies outside the EU.
:37:49. > :37:53.Grimsby housewife Gill White leads a group of campaigners who say it
:37:53. > :37:59.is time for a referendum on whether we stay in or get out of the
:37:59. > :38:03.European Union -- Josephine White. It makes so many of by-laws these
:38:03. > :38:09.days. That itself is not democratic. We are being governed by people who
:38:09. > :38:16.are not accountable to us, and that any is anti-democratic. The EU is
:38:16. > :38:20.created to be anti- DEC of -- democratic. And I have -- I think
:38:20. > :38:27.we have a right up in a sale how we are governed.
:38:27. > :38:32.They last time we had a referendum on our membership was back in 1975.
:38:32. > :38:38.That means that no one under the age of 54 or has ever been asked
:38:38. > :38:43.directly whether they want to be part of the EU. Do you think there
:38:43. > :38:49.should be a referendum? Yes, we pay a lot into it and get very little
:38:49. > :38:52.out of it. Except red tape. I would vote to stay in it, I think it is
:38:52. > :38:58.essential we stay in a wider market, we need more contacts to grow and
:38:58. > :39:01.business, grow the country. If we stay as the UK on its own, that is
:39:01. > :39:05.backward thinking. Throughout history, British people have done
:39:05. > :39:09.things their own way quite successfully. As soon as we start
:39:09. > :39:18.getting involved with other conflicts, that is when the
:39:18. > :39:22.problems start to rise. With many blaming Brussels for the decline of
:39:22. > :39:27.the fishing industry, Grimsby has long been regarded as one of the
:39:27. > :39:30.most Euro-sceptic towns in the country. But one any he believes
:39:30. > :39:36.those who want to leave the EU should be careful what they wish
:39:36. > :39:41.for. In and out of the single currency zone, we are still very
:39:41. > :39:44.much affected by what happens economically in Europe. There is
:39:45. > :39:49.nothing to say that our own economy will not be in dire straits. And we
:39:49. > :39:53.might actually be looking for help from Europe. We need Europe as much
:39:54. > :40:00.as you it needs us. The relationship is very close, and we
:40:00. > :40:03.cannot escape that. It looks as though the EU are going to... It
:40:03. > :40:08.will be a completely different constructs. Our relationship is
:40:08. > :40:13.bound to change because of that. As David Cameron and the politicians
:40:13. > :40:20.need to ask what we think. It is time we were asked. As simple as
:40:20. > :40:25.that. The Prime Minister has rejected calls for an EU referendum.
:40:25. > :40:29.But a petition signed by more than 100,000 people supporting a public
:40:29. > :40:35.vote was recently handed in to Downing Street, and campaigners say
:40:35. > :40:40.they will be keeping up the pressure on the government. Our
:40:40. > :40:45.guest today in the studio are both MEPs. Diana Wallis you saw briefly
:40:45. > :40:50.in that report, and Godfrey Bloom from UKIP. Diana Wallis, is it time
:40:50. > :40:54.to have a referendum to decide if we want to be in or out? What is
:40:54. > :40:58.triggering at the moment all the chat about a referendum is an
:40:58. > :41:03.economic and financial crisis, and I think that is what people want to
:41:03. > :41:08.see us dealing with, the crisis, not about who governs to, and how
:41:08. > :41:12.do we do it and all the rest of it. Endless talks about constitutions
:41:12. > :41:15.and treaties. They want to see results and they want to see us
:41:15. > :41:19.dealing with the particular problems. Should we in the longer
:41:19. > :41:24.term have a discussion about our relationship with Europe, if that
:41:24. > :41:28.is what people want, fine. But let's bear in mind that this
:41:28. > :41:32.government, the current governed -- the current government has provided
:41:32. > :41:36.the possibility that if the way in which it is constructed is to
:41:37. > :41:45.change significantly at some point... But we had those promises
:41:45. > :41:48.over Lisbon. No, it has been put into law. And there would be a
:41:48. > :41:52.referendum trigger a. So let's talk about it when it is necessary to
:41:52. > :41:56.talk about it. But I guess that most of the people out in the
:41:56. > :42:01.street now would rather politicians were talking and getting results
:42:02. > :42:05.about dealing with our economies across Europe together. Do you
:42:05. > :42:10.believe that is the view of people on the street? No, she does not go
:42:10. > :42:13.down the street I go down! It is not just in this crisis, I have
:42:13. > :42:18.been on this shows since 2004 saying people have never been
:42:18. > :42:25.offered a vote on this. I voted for it in 1975 because I was told it
:42:25. > :42:29.was a free-trade area. There is no reason we cannot enjoy a free trade
:42:29. > :42:33.like scores of other countries do it outside the European Union.
:42:33. > :42:37.Nobody voted for political union, which is what we have got. And I
:42:37. > :42:47.have been claiming for years that this would all end in tears, and I
:42:47. > :42:47.
:42:47. > :42:50.have been right. History will decide, got three! Diana, no one up
:42:51. > :42:56.under the age of 54 has ever been consulted as to whether they want
:42:56. > :43:02.to be part of the European Union. It was a common market in 1975, not
:43:02. > :43:06.full political union. I'll agree with the concept of a referendum,
:43:06. > :43:10.and probably in contrast to some members of my own parties. I
:43:10. > :43:15.actually believe that we should at some point have that discussions.
:43:15. > :43:18.But there has to be a reason to have that discussions. Do you
:43:18. > :43:22.support a referendum at some stage? I support it when there is a reason
:43:22. > :43:27.for having it. At the moment, there is no trigger, there is nothing
:43:27. > :43:30.that is about to change. Is there is something that is about to
:43:31. > :43:34.change, that says to me, that is the point to have the discussion
:43:34. > :43:38.with people, if Ann Hall relationship with Europe will
:43:38. > :43:42.change. But at the moment, when there are so many other things to
:43:42. > :43:47.deal with, when people are frightened and worried about their
:43:47. > :43:50.financial and economic future, about having jobs, now is not the
:43:50. > :43:55.time to have some esoteric conversation about treaties and
:43:55. > :44:01.constitutions and how we put Europe together. Let's provide the answer
:44:01. > :44:04.in terms of what affects people's daily lives. Godfrey Bloom, are you
:44:04. > :44:08.confident you could win a referendum? He would be up against
:44:08. > :44:12.the bulk of the main three political parties and many
:44:12. > :44:17.political -- business organisations. How confident are you the British
:44:17. > :44:20.public would vote against the EU? He must not make the mistake that
:44:20. > :44:24.the main political parties represent the people. They do not.
:44:24. > :44:27.The people on the street are fed up with political parties and
:44:27. > :44:34.bureaucrats, and they are fed up with big business to does indeed
:44:34. > :44:37.lobby for it. We spent �45 million and I would argue the first thing
:44:37. > :44:42.we need to do, we are one trillion pounds in debt and are going down
:44:42. > :44:46.the tubes, we should stop sending out �45 million a day, and we
:44:46. > :44:52.should have a referendum on whether we want to be in or out. It is long
:44:52. > :44:56.overdue. Stay with us, the party conference season is underway. This
:44:56. > :45:01.weekend, it is the Liberal Democrats'' turn in the spotlight.
:45:01. > :45:05.Meanwhile, UKIP have already had their conference and UKIP activists
:45:06. > :45:09.were in buoyant mood following the party's second place in the
:45:09. > :45:14.Barnsley Central by-election, which prompted the Nigel Farage to claim
:45:14. > :45:18.that UKIP was on the way to becoming the third party of British
:45:18. > :45:26.politics. That statement did not go down too well at the Green Party's
:45:26. > :45:31.recent conference in Sheffield. UKIP reckons it has pushed the
:45:31. > :45:37.Liberal Democrats a side. What is your reaction? We have very little
:45:37. > :45:41.evidence of UKIP, certainly in Leeds, as at present at all. They
:45:41. > :45:47.did well in the Barnsley by- election, but in terms of local
:45:47. > :45:51.elections, there is little evidence of their impact. We got 18,000
:45:51. > :45:55.votes across the Hull City, higher than we have ever done before. And
:45:55. > :46:01.we feel that we are making progress, and the point is that even though
:46:01. > :46:04.we have a few councillors, we do make an impression on the council.
:46:04. > :46:08.If you have it supports at grassroots levels, where you have
:46:08. > :46:14.active local parties, councillors are elected, the Green Party is
:46:14. > :46:18.ahead of UKIP. My reaction to them - have caused, it would be great if
:46:18. > :46:22.they steered an election. There was one UKIP candidate in our
:46:22. > :46:26.constituency and we beat them. It is a theoretical vote for many
:46:26. > :46:33.people. If they are not on the ground you cannot vote for them.
:46:33. > :46:36.They are not a serious political parties. Some views from the Green
:46:36. > :46:42.Party conference in Sheffield. Godfrey Bloom, De Nigel Farage jump
:46:42. > :46:46.the gun when he said that? There has been no evidence of that since
:46:46. > :46:50.the by-election. There was a government poll that said we had
:46:50. > :46:55.overtaken the Liberal Democrats. And only last Thursday, we fought a
:46:55. > :47:00.by-election in Essex and got more votes in that constituency than all
:47:00. > :47:04.the other political parties other than Conservatives. But none of
:47:04. > :47:11.this is actually the point. The point is that when we had a
:47:11. > :47:15.straightforward vote on what people care about, that is, do we want to
:47:15. > :47:19.be a self-governing nation? People turned out, and we beat the Liberal
:47:19. > :47:25.Democrats and the Labour Party. And I can tell you that the next
:47:25. > :47:34.elections, we will beat everyone, including the Conservatives. Diana
:47:34. > :47:41.Wallis, do you worry about to Mac party politics, the Tories and
:47:41. > :47:44.Labour. So no, I do not see that at all. I am going to a party
:47:44. > :47:51.conference next week, where my party is now part of the government
:47:51. > :47:55.of this country. And look where it has got G! Yes, it is tough, nobody
:47:55. > :48:00.said that being in coalition was easy. And we see that with Liberal
:48:00. > :48:05.parties across Europe, it is not an easy option. Sometimes you have to
:48:05. > :48:10.take a hard option, but if you look at our party across the country, we
:48:10. > :48:17.have hundreds of local councillors. You have fewer councillors since
:48:17. > :48:20.last May! Yes, but still a great deal more than Godfrey Bloom's
:48:20. > :48:27.party. So I think the idea that we are suddenly being so past, the
:48:27. > :48:32.reality, if you look at where my party is and what it is doing, is
:48:32. > :48:36.quite different. Godfrey Bloom, why has UKIP failed to make a
:48:36. > :48:40.breakthrough at domestic level? You a polled well in the last two
:48:40. > :48:45.European elections. But in local elections, he made very little
:48:45. > :48:49.impact. We do not really have an infrastructure to fight local
:48:49. > :48:54.elections, I am the first to admit it. We do not have the books on the
:48:54. > :48:58.ground. What we have is our hearts of the people. You need feed on the
:48:58. > :49:05.ground to fight local elections. I think you will find that when the
:49:05. > :49:09.big one comes in 2014, the question actually is, who governs Britain,
:49:09. > :49:13.shall we cells govern again, I will bet you �20 that I am right, as I
:49:13. > :49:19.have always been right on this programme about election results. I
:49:19. > :49:22.bet we will be top. You were very fond of yourself! Diana Wallis,
:49:22. > :49:24.what does Nick Clegg have to do this week to convince the British
:49:25. > :49:31.public that the Liberal Democrats are a serious electoral force
:49:31. > :49:36.again? I think she has to be himself. And he has to remember
:49:36. > :49:43.what he achieved during the election. He has tremendous
:49:43. > :49:47.personality, he is a good leader of our party. I think many of us go,
:49:47. > :49:50.we can all talk about polls, there was one the Guardian suppressed
:49:50. > :49:57.last week that had the Liberal Democrats on 17 %. I would Take
:49:57. > :50:01.That. The economy will be a big talking point. And one party member
:50:01. > :50:07.has some advice for the Business Secretary, Vince Cable. One of the
:50:07. > :50:11.most famous names in chocolate, Peter Thornton, believes that
:50:11. > :50:16.family businesses could hold the key to avoiding another recession.
:50:16. > :50:21.He claims they should receive more help from government.
:50:21. > :50:24.Exactly 100 years ago, Joseph Thornton started making and selling
:50:24. > :50:28.sweets from this shop in Sheffield. Peter Thornton should know all
:50:28. > :50:33.about that. He is just that's grandson, and spent most of his
:50:33. > :50:37.working life in the family business. He was its chairman during the
:50:37. > :50:45.1980s. He things the Government is ignoring the opportunities provided
:50:45. > :50:49.by strong, locally based family businesses. I am a liberal Democrat
:50:49. > :50:53.support for a. Find I am delighted that they are in government. But
:50:53. > :50:59.one thing I am disappointed about is that there has been nothing said
:51:00. > :51:04.by them about family businesses. There has been no offer of further
:51:04. > :51:07.support for improvement in the status or recognition of the family
:51:08. > :51:13.business sector. And this is what I want the government to do, to put,
:51:13. > :51:17.to create the environment which is very supportive to family business.
:51:17. > :51:21.According to Peter Thornton, retail is a good indicator of how far
:51:21. > :51:28.local family businesses have been squeezed by a combination of market
:51:29. > :51:32.forces and government lethargy. He says Sheffield is a prime example.
:51:32. > :51:36.This was filled with independent stores. We had a wonderful
:51:36. > :51:41.department store on the shoulder, - - corner, and over here we had a
:51:41. > :51:46.coffee shop. And all these companies were working for the
:51:46. > :51:49.community, providing what this community needed and developing
:51:49. > :51:55.that terrific spirit of co- operation between employers and the
:51:55. > :51:59.people working in the company. the 1980s, Thorntons ceased to be a
:51:59. > :52:04.family business. It launched on the stock market, grew rapidly and
:52:04. > :52:07.built this factory in North Derbyshire. A few years later, BBC
:52:07. > :52:14.cameras went to see what sort of differences it make to the way the
:52:14. > :52:17.company had to be run as a public company. The city and financial
:52:17. > :52:22.institutions want to make sure they are getting their money's worth.
:52:22. > :52:27.For that reason, this firm is more or scrutinise Bennett has been
:52:27. > :52:32.before. For many family firms, that is too much to digest. It was
:52:32. > :52:37.certainly too much for Peter. He had already left Thorntons by then.
:52:37. > :52:42.He now runs a consultancy advising other UK family businesses. These
:52:42. > :52:47.things can be achieved through cultural, through banking and
:52:47. > :52:51.through government recognition and assistance. It is time now that we
:52:51. > :52:56.created an economy in this country which is more like the German
:52:56. > :53:00.economy, where family business is respected and is helped. That way,
:53:00. > :53:06.we can achieve much more than we are doing. For the benefit of our
:53:06. > :53:09.people, and our economy. Sheffield, like most of the rest of the
:53:09. > :53:14.country, is now dominated by national or international
:53:14. > :53:19.conglomerates, or relatively faceless financial institutions.
:53:19. > :53:26.But if government can give more support to encourage the growth of
:53:26. > :53:30.business, would that give us a far better at economic horizon? It is
:53:30. > :53:34.an interesting talking point this. The German stock exchange has its
:53:34. > :53:38.own index for family businesses. Why is our record in this country
:53:38. > :53:42.so poor of nurturing family businesses? I think our whole
:53:42. > :53:47.commercial sector has been constructed in a different way. But
:53:47. > :53:52.what is correct out of that piece is that we need to do far more for
:53:52. > :53:56.smaller businesses, and for entrepreneurship in general. And I
:53:56. > :54:05.do think that actually, there are parts of the puzzle already been
:54:05. > :54:11.put in place. I think Vince Cable has been a tremendous advocate for
:54:11. > :54:15.trying to help enterprise. I think that is part of the picture. Also
:54:15. > :54:19.in terms of young entrepreneurs, there seems to have been some
:54:19. > :54:24.success in upping the number of apprenticeships and other
:54:24. > :54:28.possibilities taken up, even in this region. So some things are
:54:28. > :54:32.being done. I think it is an interesting piece, concentrating
:54:32. > :54:37.particularly on this aspect of family business. Interesting, as
:54:37. > :54:41.you say, it is a model that comes from Germany, something we can take
:54:41. > :54:46.from discussion with our European colleagues. And see if there is
:54:46. > :54:50.something positive we can do. Godfrey Bloom, used to work in the
:54:50. > :54:56.city. Do you regret the fact that so many family businesses had been
:54:56. > :55:01.taken over by corporate giants? it is a sad thing. I also started
:55:01. > :55:05.my own small business in 1992 which I sold a few years ago. So unlike
:55:05. > :55:08.most politicians, I have experience in this. And I can assure you that
:55:08. > :55:13.they do not want help from government, they want to get rid of
:55:14. > :55:18.a hindrance. Government, town halls and bureaucrats are part of the
:55:18. > :55:24.problem, not the solution. What small business people I say -- say
:55:24. > :55:27.to meet, they say, please, let us run our business. Get out of our
:55:27. > :55:31.face. Get the man from the town hall out of my space and
:55:31. > :55:38.politicians out of my face. Westminster cannot do anything
:55:38. > :55:45.about it, most of the legislation comes from Brussels. Briefly, red
:55:45. > :55:49.tape, bureaucracy... We need some regulation. We are trying to do our
:55:49. > :55:54.best to make sure that the regulation that is very smart. And
:55:54. > :55:59.fit for purpose. And we are trying to cut it down. Thank you both very
:55:59. > :56:04.much for your time. You can keep up-to-date with the latest