:00:48. > :00:53.And here in the North: The academy with a gite in Normany and a
:00:54. > :00:56.planetarium. As nearly all schools are encouraged to become academies,
:00:56. > :01:06.will some end up more equal than others?
:01:06. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :30:40.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1773 seconds
:30:40. > :30:42.That's a Politics Show education Welcome to the Politics Show for
:30:42. > :30:45.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Today's programme comes from the BBC
:30:45. > :30:52.studios in Hull, where today we're examining what every parent should
:30:52. > :30:55.know about the winds of change blasting through our schools.
:30:55. > :30:57.We look at the French connection. Why a Lincolnshire academy has
:30:57. > :31:00.spent almost �2 million on this converted farmhouse in Normandy.
:31:00. > :31:05.Critics say the academy funding programme is taking money away from
:31:05. > :31:08.traditional state schools. And the ex Bradford City footballer
:31:08. > :31:11.who's a committed Christian applying to set up a new free
:31:11. > :31:21.school, but just how comfortable are Labour with this new generation
:31:21. > :31:25.
:31:25. > :31:28.If you saw a school prospectus boasting of an equestrian centre, a
:31:28. > :31:33.planetarium and a converted farmhouse in Normandy, you would
:31:33. > :31:38.imagine it would be somewhere like Eton or another expensive private
:31:38. > :31:48.school. Those facilities are available at a state funded academy
:31:48. > :31:56.
:31:56. > :32:01.in Lincolnshire. There is a chapel and an outside
:32:01. > :32:08.football pitch, it is beautiful and tranquil and is owned by an English
:32:08. > :32:12.state schools. This one, in fact. The Priory
:32:12. > :32:16.Federation of academies in Lincoln, at one of the biggest Academy
:32:16. > :32:21.project in the country. It's open evening at the Priory
:32:21. > :32:26.tonight and as you can see, it is attracting a lot of interest.
:32:26. > :32:33.Parents attending will hear about facilities. Facilities which the
:32:33. > :32:39.vast majority are state-funded schools can only dream of.
:32:39. > :32:44.More than �60 million in government grants have paid for two new
:32:44. > :32:50.schools. State of the arts sports facilities including an Olympic-
:32:50. > :32:54.size running track, Jim and climbing wall.
:32:54. > :33:00.The vast majority of the money for the rebuilt and what has happened
:33:00. > :33:05.is public money, isn't it? Yes, but so is public money for any school
:33:05. > :33:11.or Academy rebuild. When we talk about schools funding, it is
:33:11. > :33:15.central government funding. Public money is all taxpayers' money, but
:33:15. > :33:20.the Priory has received only that which is available on the same
:33:20. > :33:26.ratio as any score other school in the country. That is not all, the
:33:26. > :33:31.Priory has enough of it own money to pay for �700,000 towards the
:33:31. > :33:39.cost of a new science centre which has its own planetarium. The French
:33:39. > :33:47.education centre costing �1.9 million. A �1.7 million a
:33:47. > :33:53.equestrian centre. 19 company cars and a salary of �600,000 per year
:33:53. > :34:01.for its top four earners. You can't forget that the two
:34:01. > :34:06.schools consumed were were in need, were struggling, were failing. That
:34:06. > :34:11.is fine, but did they need their level of what seems to be opulence
:34:11. > :34:17.that they have got? Could the money have been shared out more equally
:34:17. > :34:22.to help other schools that were, maybe not failing as much as them,
:34:22. > :34:26.but struggling? And now because of the heavy load of money the
:34:26. > :34:33.academies have got, they have gone so far higher it which has made
:34:33. > :34:36.other schools step even further backwards. Academies are not under
:34:36. > :34:41.local authority control and receive funding directly from the
:34:41. > :34:45.government. The Priory rebuilds were paid for by the building
:34:45. > :34:49.schools for the future programme. Last year that programme was axed
:34:49. > :34:55.because of spending cuts. Lincolnshire schools missed out on
:34:55. > :35:01.a total of �70 million. This head teacher has watched the Academy's
:35:01. > :35:05.programme unfold. Speaking generally, I think it is a disgrace
:35:05. > :35:09.that so much money is spent in a small number of schools to the
:35:09. > :35:14.detriment of students in other schools. The students here are
:35:14. > :35:22.every bit as good as every other student in the country and deserve
:35:22. > :35:29.an equal chance. For other schools to get more funding, I think it is
:35:29. > :35:35.an absolute crime. The question of where the money comes from his from
:35:35. > :35:39.central government funding. The basics are, the school is allocated
:35:39. > :35:44.its annual core budget in the same way every school is. The Audit
:35:44. > :35:50.Commission recommends that the school spends no more than 80% of
:35:50. > :35:57.that budget on staff costs because asked -- staff take up the majority
:35:57. > :36:02.of the budget. Hiring high-calibre or staff which means that those
:36:02. > :36:11.figures are able to be hit. That can be freed up from the budget you
:36:11. > :36:17.are allocated in the prioress case, �800,000 per year. Are you saying
:36:17. > :36:21.that the Priory Federation is giving tax payer value for money?
:36:21. > :36:30.We are. Everything that the federation does and spends is
:36:30. > :36:34.designed to be cost-effective and More schools across Yorkshire and
:36:34. > :36:38.Lincolnshire are considering becoming academies, but they are
:36:38. > :36:43.unlikely to receive the money it to create the kind of facilities seen
:36:43. > :36:48.here. While there is no doubt that many failing schools have been
:36:48. > :36:52.turned around by academy status, critics argue that there is no
:36:52. > :37:02.longer a level playing-field in education.
:37:02. > :37:02.
:37:02. > :37:09.Our guests today are Alan Johnson, an MP for Hull West, Graham Stuart
:37:09. > :37:13.a Conservative MP, and Brian Swinton who represents the National
:37:13. > :37:19.Union of Teachers in the east of the auction.
:37:19. > :37:24.Alan Johnson, you saw the facilities at the Priory, a plumber
:37:24. > :37:30.terrier, a converted farmhouse, was that the model you envisage when
:37:30. > :37:33.Labour role that the Academy's programme? In a sense, yes. He said
:37:33. > :37:41.that you would expect to see this at a private school, while these
:37:41. > :37:44.are kids, there was no mention of the failing schools, but these kids
:37:44. > :37:49.probably had the worst of everything and needed more help
:37:49. > :37:54.than most other areas. Now they have the best of everything. I have
:37:54. > :38:00.no problem in people mistaking a state school with fair funding,
:38:00. > :38:05.with no selection, with a fee- paying private school. I think that
:38:05. > :38:09.is healthy. If you look at the results in academies and the way
:38:09. > :38:13.they galvanise improved results at other schools, I think for the
:38:13. > :38:17.Academy's has been made. The argument now is a different one
:38:17. > :38:22.about control and whether the Secretary of State can continue to
:38:22. > :38:27.be responsible for them and about integration, but the argument about
:38:27. > :38:31.whether academies have been a good thing he is obvious. Many would say
:38:32. > :38:39.we are heading towards a two-tier education system with the Academy
:38:39. > :38:44.is that have so and the traditional schools have not. By Pezzoli agree
:38:44. > :38:48.with every word that Allen said. How can you run a piece that
:38:48. > :38:55.suggests this is all fought in an area where children were previously
:38:55. > :38:58.failed to now have excellent facilities. The inner quality in
:38:58. > :39:02.many distribution is not because academies get more money than other
:39:02. > :39:10.schools, it is because the building schools for the future programme,
:39:10. > :39:15.which was a colossal expense, had massive waste. Many children are
:39:15. > :39:19.now learning in mobile classrooms. What the coalition has had to do is
:39:19. > :39:25.ensure all schools get a fair access which Labour did not do. We
:39:25. > :39:30.are moving to a fairer position now and when we repair public finances,
:39:30. > :39:35.we will hopefully see all schools made in that direction. You have
:39:35. > :39:43.heard Labour and Conservatives largely agree, why are the teaching
:39:43. > :39:48.union so opposed? Exactly the point, we would aspire for all children to
:39:48. > :39:52.be in a state run school with all of those facilities. That seems to
:39:52. > :39:58.me to be the sticking point. It seems impossible for every state
:39:58. > :40:02.school to have those facilities. Why can't that be done?
:40:02. > :40:07.Straightforwardly because the money was not sustainable. Building
:40:07. > :40:11.schools for the future was expensive. We have schools being
:40:11. > :40:16.opened in recent months that would cost a third of that price and
:40:16. > :40:20.deliver the same facilities. We have seen monumental waste. Alan
:40:20. > :40:25.and his colleagues have that round their neck and we are left trying
:40:25. > :40:29.to repair the finances. The government has done a good job in
:40:29. > :40:34.protecting revenue for schools, but capital has been cut because Labour
:40:34. > :40:38.made a mess of it. We will not see any more schools like the Priory
:40:38. > :40:44.foundation because they were paid for in the good times now there is
:40:44. > :40:53.no money left. We are in hell were three academies are due to open in
:40:53. > :40:56.my constituency. Tremendous facilities. Graham should paid due
:40:56. > :41:04.credit to the previous government for lifting education from the
:41:04. > :41:08.appalling levels we inherited. 58.8 per Saint average GCSE attainment
:41:08. > :41:15.including English and maths. Brian's members are large part of
:41:15. > :41:20.that. It is teachers, but also the structure of education that, buy in
:41:20. > :41:26.large, meant if you lived in poor areas you were written off. What do
:41:26. > :41:30.you expect from these kids, look at their background. That has gone. We
:41:30. > :41:35.can argue about capital, but the fact that we have these brilliant
:41:35. > :41:39.schools and schools that are not academies being rebuilt, is a good
:41:39. > :41:46.thing for state education. Let's put this point to Brian because the
:41:46. > :41:50.old system did not work. I think the alternative that we have coming
:41:50. > :41:55.on stream now with academies, while those schools might be fine, the
:41:55. > :41:59.danger is that it is a massive instability. You'll have movement
:41:59. > :42:04.of children from one school to another, what is that leaving
:42:04. > :42:08.behind? Academies are excluding a lot more pupils, where will they
:42:08. > :42:15.go? The funding removed from local authorities that would have been
:42:15. > :42:20.used, there is not enough to improve other schools now. They NUT
:42:20. > :42:26.are the voice of dinosaurs. Alan is right, we have moved on. We are not
:42:26. > :42:30.prepared to sit by while kids in poor areas are let down. We are
:42:30. > :42:35.building on what Labour did and extending it. There are questions
:42:35. > :42:40.we have to ask making sure integration works, but
:42:40. > :42:47.fundamentally we had to face down that teaching unions and open up
:42:47. > :42:50.education system for all. When he arrived in Downing Street,
:42:50. > :42:53.David Cameron wanted to take the academy model a stage further by
:42:53. > :42:56.allowing people from all walks of life to set up their own so-called
:42:56. > :42:59.free schools. Initial Labour opposition appears to be softening
:42:59. > :43:02.in some places, with the leader of one of our biggest Labour-run
:43:02. > :43:10.councils now admitting that he has no choice but to co-operate with
:43:10. > :43:14.groups planning to open new free schools. Here's Len Tingle.
:43:14. > :43:19.If everything goes forward as we hope, this area will be at the
:43:19. > :43:25.heart of our school. It could not be a more unusual place to set up a
:43:26. > :43:30.school, this is currently used as the club museum. One of the prime
:43:30. > :43:38.movers behind the ambitious plans to run a school here is better
:43:38. > :43:42.known for sporting rather than academic goals. Wayne Jacobs played
:43:42. > :43:47.358 league and cup games for Bradford City. He turned to
:43:47. > :43:51.management afterwards returning for a spell as assistant manager in
:43:51. > :43:56.2007. He himself admits he was hardly a thumb of school before
:43:56. > :44:00.signing for his hometown club of Sheffield Wednesday as a schoolboy.
:44:00. > :44:05.I had a gift for football and through school, that gift came to
:44:05. > :44:10.the surface in football. Academically I was struggling and
:44:10. > :44:16.that became a problem for me. It was my problem, I was the problem.
:44:16. > :44:21.It always seemed to be a clash, the skill set that I had. That is the
:44:21. > :44:27.driving force behind Wayne getting together with local businessman,
:44:27. > :44:33.Matthew band. There is an area where we will see the kids having a
:44:33. > :44:37.canteen space. Together they formed a charity called One In A Million.
:44:37. > :44:44.It has been behind a range of projects with young people often on
:44:44. > :44:47.some of the most deprived estate. The coalition governments of of
:44:47. > :44:52.allowing organisations to set up free schools financed by taxpayers'
:44:52. > :44:59.cash seemed like a natural progression. When me and Wayne met,
:44:59. > :45:03.we had a heart to help kids. One of those ways was through education.
:45:03. > :45:07.There was an obvious link with its port and football, it was something
:45:07. > :45:13.that could really engage the kids. We are looking at how we can help
:45:13. > :45:20.them in those areas. Education was central to it. We have been waiting
:45:20. > :45:27.five is to do this. According to the council, Bradford school age is
:45:27. > :45:31.growing. Many of its own sq calls off all to bursting. It disagrees
:45:31. > :45:35.with third decision that will now see five independent free schools
:45:35. > :45:41.taking chunks of its education budget, but says it has no
:45:41. > :45:43.alternative but to co-operate. believe that the local education
:45:43. > :45:50.authority should have supervision and provide additional schools,
:45:50. > :45:54.that is not the current policy. I do not agree with that, but the
:45:54. > :45:59.reality is that my priority is the kids in the district. If we are
:45:59. > :46:03.short of schools and the only way to get schools is free schools,
:46:03. > :46:11.then we will work with the people that provide those in order to get
:46:11. > :46:16.the best schools possible. Bradford City has a long history. FA Cup
:46:16. > :46:21.winners in 2011. None of its former legends would ever have thought
:46:21. > :46:25.that in future years it would be looking at a measure of success in
:46:25. > :46:32.completely different league tables. League tables based on examination
:46:32. > :46:36.results. Alan Johnson, your new shadow
:46:36. > :46:41.education secretary recently suggested he supported free schools.
:46:41. > :46:47.Do you support free schools? He did not say that. He was minister with
:46:47. > :46:51.me in education. A very good minister. I am puzzled by free
:46:51. > :46:57.schools. I see the need for it in Bradford and I do not know why it
:46:57. > :47:02.is called a free school and not an academic, it has confused the issue.
:47:02. > :47:07.In lots of places, given that there is a 60% reduction in capital
:47:07. > :47:13.available, they would choose other priorities than to put money into a
:47:13. > :47:17.free school. Where it is necessary, you can see the logic. There are
:47:17. > :47:21.other areas in London where they want money put into primary schools
:47:21. > :47:27.which have an aching need for extra funding where that money is going
:47:27. > :47:32.into every school secondary school where there is not a shortage. What
:47:32. > :47:38.Stephen Twigg said was, we are pragmatic about these things as Ian
:47:38. > :47:44.Greenwood was there in Bradford. We are not going to say we will close
:47:44. > :47:49.that school down. We believe the policy has huge question marks over
:47:49. > :47:54.it. Where there is a need for a school, we would support that free
:47:54. > :48:00.school. I would support every school here if there were a need
:48:00. > :48:04.for more places. I am just puzzled as to why a, as well as foundation
:48:04. > :48:08.schools, fate schools and specialist schools, we now have to
:48:08. > :48:14.have this new category called free schools. That looked like an
:48:14. > :48:18.academy. A I would agree with Alan completely. We have to be pragmatic
:48:18. > :48:24.and work with these things where they exist, but I would question
:48:24. > :48:29.the need for it. Ideologically we are opposed to free schools.
:48:29. > :48:37.should an education authority have a monopoly? Because that is its job,
:48:37. > :48:41.isn't it? So we are giving their jobs to bureaucrats? I think those
:48:41. > :48:47.people in local authorities are not bureaucrats, they are experts. They
:48:47. > :48:51.have been doing that job for a long time. You look at some of the
:48:51. > :48:57.applications for three schools, football clubs even one of the
:48:57. > :49:01.chuckle Brothers is supporting a new free school in Rotherham. Once
:49:01. > :49:09.upon a time government policy was dictated by the Miliband brothers
:49:09. > :49:15.now it is the chuckle Brothers. good line, Tim. To you. If you look
:49:15. > :49:21.at Premier League clubs they have been playing a big role. Having
:49:21. > :49:25.other people coming in the getting education that is about bringing
:49:25. > :49:29.out everything within a child at making them a part of society,
:49:29. > :49:34.bringing in football clubs and businesses and allowing teachers to
:49:34. > :49:42.set up schools and parents, getting all of us involved and challenging
:49:42. > :49:48.the settlement and allowing that to be a challenge is exciting. These
:49:48. > :49:52.applications are in posh areas, not working class areas. Most of the
:49:52. > :49:58.free schools this year have in fact been in the poor areas. There is
:49:58. > :50:04.such a great need and I do not see how you can be opposed. Allen says
:50:04. > :50:09.he is confused, the truth is they are academies. Instead of having to
:50:09. > :50:14.be mediated by the bureaucrats, local people can decide. Are you
:50:14. > :50:18.any less confused, Alan Johnson, listening to Graham? I am still
:50:18. > :50:21.puzzled as to the logic of introducing a different dimension
:50:21. > :50:27.when there is enough there at the moment that could have solved the
:50:27. > :50:31.problem in bad third without this label. Local education authorities
:50:31. > :50:35.should be the Commissioner of good education, not the providers.