:00:27. > :00:31.Tonight, talk of Unionist unity has divided the Ulster Unionist Party
:00:31. > :00:36.as John McCallister becomes the latest to fall out of favour with
:00:36. > :00:41.his leader. Could bitter infighting make the party an irrelevance? We
:00:41. > :00:45.hear from the MLA at the centre of this latest drama. Plus, a bright
:00:45. > :00:49.young things who are changing the look of politics here. I do not put
:00:49. > :00:55.my experience is any less valid because it is shorter. I think my
:00:55. > :01:00.view is as simple -- is as important as someone who has 30 of
:01:00. > :01:04.40 years' experience. We ask our fresh-faced commentators for their
:01:04. > :01:09.views. In other news, I will be looking at
:01:09. > :01:13.the Secretary of State's idea on how to bury our differences. That
:01:14. > :01:20.is a sideways view from Newton Emerson. You can also follow the
:01:20. > :01:24.programme on Twitter. First tonight, it is back on our
:01:24. > :01:29.screens, a soap opera of family tensions, if divided loyalties and
:01:29. > :01:39.convoluted plot lines. You could not make it up and we did not have
:01:39. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :02:33.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 54 seconds
:02:33. > :02:39.Well, one of the stars of this latest Ulster Unionist drama is
:02:39. > :02:44.John McCallister, the South Downs MLA was sacked this week. He was
:02:44. > :02:47.sacked after making a speech criticising Unionist unity. Party
:02:47. > :02:52.leader Mike Nesbitt saw sections of the speech as an attack on his
:02:52. > :02:56.leadership. He is with me now. Do you feel you have been caught in
:02:57. > :03:00.the middle of a real-life soap opera over the past few days?
:03:00. > :03:08.knew you are not going to invite me in to talk about the return of
:03:08. > :03:13.Dallas. The party leader has the right to change all to move people
:03:13. > :03:19.around and I accept that. The speech I gave last night was I felt
:03:19. > :03:23.a very strong Ulster Unionist speech to a strong Ulster Unionist
:03:23. > :03:27.audience and there were about 1,500 voters. There were very small
:03:27. > :03:31.sections Mike had issues with. I said what I was talking about was
:03:31. > :03:37.the perception out there by commentators and others, the
:03:37. > :03:41.perception that the party is moving slowly down the rate Unionist unity.
:03:41. > :03:50.In other words, it looks like a duck, walks like a dog -- duck, it
:03:50. > :03:53.probably is a duck. He called you into his office up at Stormont on
:03:53. > :03:57.Monday morning at 9 o'clock and gave you his marching orders, he
:03:57. > :04:01.said he did not have confidence in the only more, did he tell you
:04:01. > :04:05.precisely why he was sacking you? He said he had lost confidence in
:04:05. > :04:10.me and the Assembly group had lost confidence in me and my role as
:04:10. > :04:14.deputy leader of that group because he took the section as sleepwalking
:04:14. > :04:19.into unity as an attack on him. I explained, as I have explained to
:04:19. > :04:24.you, but it was about commentators and the perception out there in the
:04:24. > :04:31.wider public, but the party is moving that way and that there is a
:04:31. > :04:34.Nick -- a problem of mixing the message, from what he set out as
:04:34. > :04:40.his conference speech and I reiterated. Was that a complete
:04:40. > :04:44.bolt out of the blue? You did not see it coming? I knew he was not
:04:44. > :04:51.pleased with the speech. We had spoken briefly on Saturday when he
:04:51. > :04:55.read it in the newsletter. We exchanged text messages on Sunday.
:04:55. > :05:00.I knew he was not happy with that part of the speech. Fine with the
:05:00. > :05:04.rest of the speech, no issue with it. There was a tiny section.
:05:04. > :05:10.you knew in advance that he was not happy because he had seen a draft
:05:10. > :05:16.on the News Letter on Saturday, why did you go ahead and make the
:05:16. > :05:22.speech? I was not told to not make the speech. The speech is still on
:05:22. > :05:29.the party's website and to date, I'm quite happy for people to e-
:05:29. > :05:34.mail me Mark -- of their views. There has probably never been a
:05:34. > :05:37.speech was widely read in my political career. It was that one
:05:37. > :05:41.section. There is a real and present danger that our perception
:05:41. > :05:48.can become reality and that is the perception to the party that I was
:05:48. > :05:52.warning about. Mike Nesbitt has put great store by the fact that he
:05:52. > :05:56.does not want Unionist unity. This was the weekend of covenant
:05:56. > :06:00.commemorations, it was an important and for union isn't generally, so
:06:00. > :06:04.to say anything that could be construed in any way as being
:06:04. > :06:07.undermining of your party leader, surely was unwise and the
:06:07. > :06:14.circumstances, or it was a deliberate attempt to undermine
:06:14. > :06:23.him? I would take issue with all of that. When I was speaking at a
:06:23. > :06:29.covenant dinner, loosely connected, it was an Ulster Unionist speech. I
:06:29. > :06:34.knew on the Friday night that the First Minister was likely to go
:06:35. > :06:40.down the road of pushing the Unionist unity in gender and I felt
:06:40. > :06:44.it was important that we had a counterbalance to this message,
:06:44. > :06:49.that the First Minister would be putting because that perception, it
:06:49. > :06:55.certainly was not an attack on the party leader. It was an attack on
:06:55. > :07:02.the perception that is growing within the party. Read Nick you're
:07:02. > :07:08.with today, read Liam Clarke. All the commentators were saying that.
:07:08. > :07:13.I stand fully by my comments. It was only a tiny phrase in the
:07:13. > :07:18.speech that Mike had an issue with. The rest of the speech, I thought
:07:18. > :07:25.it dovetailed very nicely into his speech the previous week. We set
:07:25. > :07:29.out a very clear vision about wanting a purist - at a pluralist
:07:29. > :07:37.liberal agenda. You do not disagree? Far from disagreeing, I
:07:37. > :07:43.would agree with it. We had a brief chat after his conference speech
:07:43. > :07:47.where I said, and he was saying, this is the direction we are going.
:07:47. > :07:52.I was absolutely following on what I believe to be the policy. There
:07:52. > :07:57.is no divergence in party politics. You do not seem to like his
:07:57. > :08:02.leadership at the moment? A bit in the speech was nothing to do with
:08:02. > :08:06.his leadership. That is how he interpreted it. He interpreted it
:08:06. > :08:11.that way but it was to do with the perception that we are on a course
:08:11. > :08:17.and the message that he is putting out in his leadership speech, and I
:08:17. > :08:21.reiterated, is somehow being lost because of the perception of moving
:08:21. > :08:25.towards Unionist unity. You are supposed to get clearance for any
:08:25. > :08:30.interviews you do, have you sought permission for this interview to
:08:30. > :08:35.that? Does Mike Nesbitt know you are sitting in that it? The general
:08:35. > :08:38.rule is you get permission or clearance so you can co-ordinate,
:08:38. > :08:44.one that there are not two Ulster Unionists appearance on the
:08:44. > :08:49.programme and what the message is. There is no policy divergence. I
:08:49. > :08:53.have not sought permission because I am at one with the vision that
:08:53. > :08:57.Mike set out. But Mike Nesbitt might see on the programme tonight
:08:57. > :09:02.and not know you were taking part and see it as another attempt to
:09:02. > :09:07.undermine his leadership. Is it? Absolutely not. I am right behind
:09:07. > :09:11.what might set out in his conference speech. My speech
:09:11. > :09:18.dovetailed, to my mind, perfectly behind what the leadership -- the
:09:18. > :09:22.leader was saying. I felt it dovetailed into promote that
:09:22. > :09:28.pluralist liberal agenda that he and I think the party should both
:09:28. > :09:32.be going. He took it as a criticism. It certainly was not a criticism or
:09:32. > :09:37.undermining. There is that perception that needs to be nailed
:09:37. > :09:42.and our message, the message that Mike is putting out, is being lost
:09:42. > :09:46.because of this endless chat out there by Unionist unity. Where does
:09:46. > :09:50.all of this, the fact that you have been removed from the opposition,
:09:50. > :09:55.the fact that Mike Nesbitt is clearly not happy with the way you
:09:55. > :09:58.have conducted yourself, where does this leave you as far as your
:09:58. > :10:04.future membership of the Ulster Unionist Party is concerned? Is
:10:04. > :10:08.that in question? The decision Mike took, I am a tough and experienced
:10:08. > :10:12.politician, I can take the knocks like that, that is the rough-and-
:10:12. > :10:17.tumble, the leader does have the power to move people, to decide
:10:17. > :10:25.what jobs people dig will start patters find. No problem with that
:10:25. > :10:29.adult. The speech I gave on Saturday night dovetails with the
:10:29. > :10:33.values and principles that might lay doubt the previous Saturday in
:10:33. > :10:38.his conference speech. This is the direction the Ulster Unionists are
:10:38. > :10:44.going in. It is something I am fully committed to. The only
:10:44. > :10:48.divergence we had was around the perception that I think I was right
:10:48. > :10:55.to warn the party that there is a growing perception that we are
:10:55. > :10:59.moving towards the Unionist unity. So you're not going anywhere? You
:10:59. > :11:03.are staying there the Ulster Unionist party? Will you have
:11:03. > :11:07.another tilt for the leadership? There is not going to be a
:11:07. > :11:12.leadership election for a long time in the Ulster Unionist Party. We
:11:12. > :11:15.need to build up the agenda and we need to get our message, we need to
:11:15. > :11:21.get that message that might delivered at the conference speech,
:11:21. > :11:26.that I reiterated the following Saturday night, and we need to
:11:26. > :11:32.clear all the scenery and all the discussion of Unionist unity and
:11:32. > :11:35.nail that myth and room and get rid of it so we are on a single message.
:11:35. > :11:38.And if Mike Nesbitt calls you into the office again tomorrow morning
:11:38. > :11:43.and says you're not happy with the way you're conducting yourself. You
:11:44. > :11:47.will say? I will say what is the issue? Had fully committed to the
:11:47. > :11:51.party, fully committed to the vision that might set out in his
:11:51. > :11:55.conference speech and that is how the party needs to go and that is
:11:55. > :11:59.the direction I am confident that we are going to go. I will work
:11:59. > :12:09.hard to deliver that, work hard in my constituency. Even on the
:12:09. > :12:16.
:12:16. > :12:26.Still to come on the programme: Gridlock Belfast. How long can the
:12:26. > :12:35.
:12:35. > :12:38.You might have noticed our politicians are getting younger.
:12:38. > :12:41.Stormont now has the youngest parliamentarian in the UK or
:12:41. > :12:44.Ireland, Sinn Fein MLA Megan Fearon, who is 21. The DUP's Gavin Robinson
:12:44. > :12:48.isn't far ahead of her at 27. He's the Lord Mayor of Belfast. Chris
:12:48. > :12:56.Page has been speaking to them and asking if the influx of youth is
:12:56. > :13:00.making a difference to political life here.
:13:00. > :13:04.Politics here has had a drink from the fountain of youth. The
:13:04. > :13:10.twentysomethings are not just getting involved, but taking top
:13:10. > :13:13.jobs. Just a few months ago a student called Megan Fearon was
:13:13. > :13:21.sitting her final seal at Queen's. Since then she has gone from
:13:21. > :13:25.studying politics, to being a fully fledged politician. Now she has
:13:25. > :13:30.what lectures for legislation and courts work for committees. Not if
:13:30. > :13:34.she only the youngest member of the assembly, also the youngest
:13:34. > :13:38.parliamentarian in the UK and Ireland. There is a link between
:13:38. > :13:44.school attendance and deprivation. At the age of 21, she made her
:13:44. > :13:47.maiden speech on Tuesday. She has been an MLA since June. I thought
:13:47. > :13:52.about it long and hard. The decision was based on the fact that
:13:52. > :13:57.if you want to make get difference you have to lead by example. We
:13:57. > :14:01.definitely need more young people and women in politics. I felt I
:14:01. > :14:08.couldn't be an advocate for that and not attempt to break the glass
:14:08. > :14:15.ceiling myself. Good morning everyone. Thank you very much for
:14:15. > :14:19.coming out to see me. Meet Kevin Robinson, to be DUP's choice to
:14:19. > :14:23.lead the because council in Northern Ireland. He is 27, but has
:14:23. > :14:28.already worked as an adviser to the First Minister. The Lord mayor
:14:28. > :14:38.thinks Jobson get much better than his present one. You try to do your
:14:38. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:45.bit to help people. It is a very satisfying part of my life. Being
:14:45. > :14:54.actively involved in that, trying to assist when you can or provide
:14:54. > :14:57.solutions is very rewarding and satisfying. So, our students
:14:57. > :15:01.interested and inspired when they see politicians not much older than
:15:01. > :15:04.them in high-profile positions? There are issues that the people of
:15:04. > :15:09.our region younger carer bouts would be dealt with more
:15:09. > :15:14.effectively. Some people would say that people at a rate turned ready.
:15:14. > :15:18.It brings a different perspective to political life and we need it.
:15:18. > :15:23.get away from the stereotype of just old men being in politics.
:15:23. > :15:28.With more senior people consider casting their vote for people a lot
:15:28. > :15:33.younger? For a young man in their 20s, doesn't have enough experience.
:15:33. > :15:37.Some of them a minute too long, and in need fresh blood. If they have
:15:37. > :15:43.the experience they could do it, but I doubt it. Megan and Caporn
:15:43. > :15:52.think their voices are valuable. I don't think my life experience is
:15:52. > :16:00.any less valid because it is shorter. We have a young population
:16:00. > :16:06.here. That should be put across in what we discuss and the issues that
:16:06. > :16:13.be raised. I have worked professionally. I have my education.
:16:13. > :16:18.I have my own experience, my own reflections. It may only be 27, but
:16:18. > :16:23.I like to think that my view is as important and a sequel as somebody
:16:23. > :16:33.else to has 30 or 40 years' experience. They are passionate
:16:33. > :16:42.
:16:42. > :16:46.about promoting the interests of young people.
:16:46. > :16:49.Now for anyone who's had to travel in or out of Belfast over the last
:16:49. > :16:52.few weeks this will strike a chord Just look at this - an all too
:16:52. > :16:55.familiar sight for motorists. The new bus lanes are being blamed for
:16:55. > :16:58.many of the problems. This morning was especially bad because of
:16:58. > :16:59.malfunctioning traffic lights around Belfast. With me now is the
:16:59. > :17:03.former Lord Mayor Niall O Donnghaile.
:17:03. > :17:11.Thank you for joining us. You still hold the record for being the
:17:11. > :17:21.youngest lord mayor? Yes, I'll hold on to that for a while yet.
:17:21. > :17:24.
:17:24. > :17:27.were 25. He was 27. embarrassing is this for Belfast
:17:27. > :17:32.City Council, for business in Belfast have this chaos on a daily
:17:32. > :17:36.basis. I don't pick it is embarrassing for the council as we
:17:36. > :17:42.are not responsible. We're trying to bring some kind of clarity to
:17:42. > :17:49.the problem. In relation to this project, it goes without saying
:17:49. > :17:54.that it has been poorly communicated and implemented. What
:17:54. > :18:01.we need to do is continue what the council have done. We can be a
:18:01. > :18:05.great convenor of people and a great communicator with citizen's.
:18:05. > :18:09.We're determined to get the right people around the table, because
:18:09. > :18:13.this has happened. This is what we're dealing with. We want to get
:18:13. > :18:19.the right information out to people. Should the Department of regional
:18:19. > :18:23.develop -- development be embarrassed? I think it should. It
:18:23. > :18:28.should recognise the negative impact it is having, not just on
:18:28. > :18:36.the people who are commuting, but also on the perception of Belfast
:18:36. > :18:38.more widely. Is embarrassing. We can get away from the fact that it
:18:38. > :18:46.is having a negative impact on people trying to get to work,
:18:46. > :18:56.trying to get the kids to school. We're heading into the Christmas
:18:56. > :18:56.
:18:56. > :18:59.periods, a very important periods. That is why I think the council
:18:59. > :19:04.have taken a lead to try and bring a degree of clarity and get the
:19:04. > :19:10.right people around the table. Candace working group actually make
:19:10. > :19:15.a difference? It is at the Arc de issue. Will it be any more than
:19:15. > :19:19.just a talking shop? It will only work if the Department come to it
:19:19. > :19:24.with their proactive frame of mind. This was poorly communicated and
:19:24. > :19:28.that is still the case. People out there tonight just don't understand
:19:28. > :19:33.the changes that have implemented. When you look at the changes that
:19:33. > :19:38.were made at the back of City Hall, this project came into effect and
:19:38. > :19:42.the yellow lines that went down on May Street did not go down. There
:19:43. > :19:49.were numerous cars going the wrong way up a one-way street at the back
:19:49. > :19:53.of City Hall. There needs to be a crypt taken of this situation. It
:19:53. > :19:57.is the department ultimately, that is where the buck stops.
:19:57. > :20:01.traffic was definitely getting more and more difficult, but officialdom
:20:01. > :20:09.seems to admit the problem worse. How do we magically resolved that
:20:09. > :20:14.without taking out the bus lanes? From Sinn Fein perspective, and a
:20:14. > :20:19.council prospective, we support investment in the public transport
:20:19. > :20:25.infrastructure. We support encouraging people to get out of
:20:26. > :20:31.the car. It will be difficult. The experts are telling us it will take
:20:31. > :20:36.six to eight weeks for people to get used to this. We can just love
:20:36. > :20:42.and hope, we need to see action. sure a lot of people at home will
:20:42. > :20:47.be shouting, I hope it is less than 68 weeks. Thank you for coming in
:20:47. > :20:52.Let's get a different view of political life here, with Newton's
:20:52. > :20:55.News. In other news this week: The
:20:55. > :20:59.Alliance Party has split over gay marriage, with half its MLAs voting
:20:59. > :21:03.for party policy and half abstaining or voting against.
:21:03. > :21:07.Alliance says it's confused, but it's probably just a phase. The DUP
:21:07. > :21:15.has advised it to see a psychiatrist.
:21:15. > :21:18.The SDLP has demanded the creation of a red meat Ombudsman. In a
:21:18. > :21:20.written Assembly question, MLA Sean Rogers asked the Minister of
:21:20. > :21:24.Agriculture and Rural Development whether she intends to appoint an
:21:24. > :21:27.Ombudsman to monitor the red meat industry. If we do get a red meat
:21:27. > :21:30.Ombudsman, it will have to consult stakeholders.
:21:30. > :21:33.BNP leader Nick Griffen was among those watching Saturday's Ulster
:21:34. > :21:38.Covenant Parade. Mr Griffen says he's a fan of the Orange Order, but
:21:38. > :21:41.the Royal Black Preceptory should go back where it came from.
:21:41. > :21:45.Sinn Fein's Conor Murphy is in Venezuela, a country in no way
:21:45. > :21:48.associated with Colombia. "I have been asked to travel to Venezuela
:21:48. > :21:52.as one of 200 International Observers for the Presidential
:21:52. > :21:56.elections", he announced on Twitter. Venezuela is ruled by an ex-army
:21:56. > :22:00.officer and kept afloat by trading oil, so the MP for South Armagh was
:22:00. > :22:02.an obvious choice. And, finally, new Secretary of
:22:02. > :22:07.State, Theresa Villiers, has visited Glasnevin Cemetery in
:22:07. > :22:09.Dublin, where she made the following observation: "I think the
:22:09. > :22:12.approach to having a non- denominational cemetery where
:22:12. > :22:15.people with diametrically opposed views on politics and religion can
:22:15. > :22:25.lie side-by-side is one that's very positive." The positive message
:22:25. > :22:28.
:22:28. > :22:36.there being that one day we'll all With me our young at heart
:22:36. > :22:46.commentators Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford. Let's go back to the
:22:46. > :22:51.story with John McAllister. What did you make a body had to say?
:22:51. > :22:57.was very understanding of Mike Misbah's position, but also
:22:57. > :23:05.unapologetic. He is stinging -- he is clinging to the view that the
:23:05. > :23:11.party needs to be progressive. You could say that nightmares but was
:23:11. > :23:16.being regressive by stripping him of the leadership -- the deputy
:23:16. > :23:21.leadership. I have read the speech quite a few times and I think it
:23:21. > :23:26.was exactly the speech that Mike Nesbitt should have been making.
:23:26. > :23:34.might Nesbitt make a view -- make a mistake by a disciplining him as
:23:34. > :23:44.severely as he did? Yes. One phrase needed to be set within the context
:23:44. > :23:48.of the perception, that is what he did. There is that you out there
:23:48. > :23:55.about this, and it is important that it be corrected. I think the
:23:55. > :24:01.step that might Nisbett Duke was one step too far. Do you think John
:24:01. > :24:04.McAllister committed high treason? It was unfair and illogical. John
:24:04. > :24:08.repeatedly said that his speech dovetailed with the speech they
:24:09. > :24:11.might miss but kit -- give it a conference. What he was saying is
:24:11. > :24:17.that it is dangerous to have one Unionist Party because eventually
:24:17. > :24:24.you will have one nationalist party, then sectarianism becomes more
:24:24. > :24:30.ingrained. That seems more logical to me. Mike Nesbitt won the
:24:30. > :24:33.leadership over John McAllister, 80 % to 20 %. Recent polls and the
:24:33. > :24:40.people have suggested that he continues to carry the support of
:24:40. > :24:44.the vast majority of his party. That's right, it was a 4-1 ratio.
:24:44. > :24:48.When I first heard what it happen, I wondered if Mike Nesbitt was
:24:48. > :24:55.feeling a bit brittle, or really confident. You would have to come
:24:55. > :25:02.to the conclusion he is feeling very confident. I think you feel
:25:02. > :25:11.secure and confident enough to take the decision he did. It's my Bunty
:25:11. > :25:17.and politicians. Are they making a difference? Is that a development
:25:17. > :25:27.that we should welcome? Undoubtedly. Young people bring a different
:25:27. > :25:29.perspective, enthusiasm, energy and passion. We need to address the
:25:29. > :25:34.disillusionment in young people in Northern Ireland. We know that
:25:34. > :25:38.young people are switched off by politics and that the average age
:25:38. > :25:44.of the councillor is over 60 in the UK. We have to say, is politics
:25:45. > :25:49.relevant? If it isn't, what can we do to make it much -- do to make it
:25:49. > :25:55.relevant? We may need to look at the voting age, the systems of
:25:55. > :26:05.voting. We need an all-inclusive political system. You taught both
:26:05. > :26:11.of them, didn't you? They were both graduates of Queen's. You moment of
:26:11. > :26:16.the week? A social policy story. Four years after was first
:26:16. > :26:21.announced, draft legislation to set up the one single education and
:26:21. > :26:28.authority in Northern Ireland finally reached the floor of the
:26:28. > :26:31.assembly this week. Hallelujah! It is a good example, the whole
:26:31. > :26:36.debacle around this single education a priority is a very good
:26:36. > :26:39.example of the paralysis that has gripped this executive and the last.
:26:39. > :26:43.We know that education is a key issue and one that we need to
:26:43. > :26:49.address urgently. We have had announcement this week about GCSEs
:26:49. > :26:54.and under attainment. We need to get his body set up immediately.
:26:54. > :27:03.has got to be the speech by Ed Miliband. Everybody has been
:27:03. > :27:08.likening him to this really because of this frees one nation. It is an
:27:08. > :27:16.anagram of know it Tony and. I don't think Benjamin Disraeli has
:27:16. > :27:26.the right person to compare him to. Roosevelt is Zinnia comparison. The
:27:26. > :27:32.New Deal man. Roosevelts is an anagram of vote-loser. That might
:27:32. > :27:42.hang around his time -- hang around his neck for some time. You're
:27:42. > :27:57.
:27:57. > :28:00.He uncovered that the executive has spent over �100,000 on PR
:28:00. > :28:04.photographs to promote our executive and he is continuing his
:28:04. > :28:11.job as a one-man opposition party determined to keep our local
:28:11. > :28:17.politicians accountable. He won the presidential debate in the States?
:28:17. > :28:22.What I saw, Mitt Romney. I am reminded more and more of Max
:28:22. > :28:32.headroom, the computer-generated character. Barack Obama was very