:00:00. > :00:28.Tonight, will it be a memorable Christmas for the right reasons for
:00:29. > :00:30.Belfast this year? Republican and loyalist leaders have been meeting
:00:31. > :00:35.senior police officers in another round of talks, aimed at easing
:00:36. > :00:38.tensions on the streets. I'll be talking to Billy Hutchinson and
:00:39. > :00:42.Gerry Kelly, who've just come from that meeting. The battle over
:00:43. > :00:48.planning looks set to intensify with a Stormont showdown now looming.
:00:49. > :00:52.planning looks set to intensify with one thing I'm fairly sure of is we
:00:53. > :00:57.cannot allow a minister to ignore the will of the executive and ignore
:00:58. > :01:03.the will of the assembly, and ignore the needs of the economy. Later,
:01:04. > :01:06.find out what would happen if we lose ?5 million a month, and how
:01:07. > :01:09.Edwin Poots can improve his image. Here to make sense of it all are
:01:10. > :01:15.tonight's commentators, Alex Kane and Paul McFadden. And you can, of
:01:16. > :01:24.course, follow the programme on Twitter. That's @BBCtheview. Another
:01:25. > :01:27.meeting of the so-called Cardiff talks, designed to relieve tension
:01:28. > :01:29.on the streets here, has just ended in the last hour. Senior police
:01:30. > :01:32.figures, politicians and representatives of loyalist groups
:01:33. > :01:35.are holding the talks against a backdrop of the ongoing Twaddell
:01:36. > :01:38.Avenue dispute and the forthcoming first anniversary of the flag
:01:39. > :01:40.protests. Earlier I spoke to the Chairman of the Northern Ireland
:01:41. > :01:47.Tourist Board, Howard Hastings. He told me he's concerned at the
:01:48. > :01:51.possibility of any more unrest. I would be hopeful to get a
:01:52. > :01:55.resolution, because I think the ongoing protests are potentially
:01:56. > :02:00.very damaging to business over the Christmas period. What is your
:02:01. > :02:10.assessment as to how damaging the protests have been? The main area I
:02:11. > :02:14.see this is Tourism Ireland's coverage especially close to home.
:02:15. > :02:19.And holiday-makers, when they are coming to a destination, their first
:02:20. > :02:22.beer is of safety and security. If they are not going somewhere where
:02:23. > :02:26.they can feel safe and secure, they will go somewhere else. We will
:02:27. > :02:31.never know how many visitors we lost this summer because of the very Poor
:02:32. > :02:42.coverage -- poor coverage that was broadcast in the Republic and Great
:02:43. > :02:46.Britain last year. The Sinn Fein MLA Gerry Kelly and the leader of the
:02:47. > :02:50.Progressive Unionist Party, Billy Hutchinson, with me now. The DUP was
:02:51. > :02:56.invited to the talks tonight but your party chose not to be there,
:02:57. > :03:02.why not? We didn't choose not to be there. We have two people, only one
:03:03. > :03:08.attends. It's one of those two. Unfortunately, not of them could
:03:09. > :03:14.make it. We had other commitments. That is nothing to do with not being
:03:15. > :03:18.at the Cardiff talks. It wasn't a significant enough meeting to be
:03:19. > :03:23.there? As far as I'm concerned, I have one of two people I can choose
:03:24. > :03:29.and non-were available. And you were not prepared to go as your self,
:03:30. > :03:35.leader of the party? We need continuity. I chose the two people
:03:36. > :03:41.that go normally, only one of them is allowed to attend. We've only got
:03:42. > :03:45.one member. There is no continuity in not being there. I don't want to
:03:46. > :03:49.get into a debate about this. Let me be clear, there are other people who
:03:50. > :03:53.have no lack of representatives. I've only got one representative.
:03:54. > :03:58.Therefore, the person I wanted to centre Knight couldn't go and we
:03:59. > :04:12.couldn't send anybody. OK, but are you happy with the process, do you
:04:13. > :04:14.think it is important and do you intend to be there next time? It is
:04:15. > :04:16.an important process. That process is around police and relationships
:04:17. > :04:21.with different communities. As long as people stick to an agenda, I'm
:04:22. > :04:28.happy enough. Is it significant that the PUP wasn't represented tonight?
:04:29. > :04:32.He's answered that question. It's there are enough. Was there anything
:04:33. > :04:37.significant that came out of the discussions? The discussions are
:04:38. > :04:42.private, in the sense that we are going through a process. It's about
:04:43. > :04:49.a relationship. We are very strict it is a better relationship. It has
:04:50. > :04:53.been helpful, if you return to the statement that came out of Cardiff
:04:54. > :04:59.and the principles that were called the Cardiff principles, they are
:05:00. > :05:03.still there and are very advanced. We will continue those discussions.
:05:04. > :05:13.But they are not there to replace anything else. There's a particular
:05:14. > :05:18.focus on public order policing. To be clear about those principles, in
:05:19. > :05:22.shorthand version they were recognising support for the police
:05:23. > :05:26.and it was a commitment on the part of the parties that were present to
:05:27. > :05:30.resolve differences through dialogue and non-violent means. A reminder
:05:31. > :05:34.that people need to be very careful about what they say in public. That
:05:35. > :05:39.commitment didn't stop the summer of unrest, of course. It wasn't
:05:40. > :05:45.intended to stop a summer of unrest. It is an effort by a wide range of
:05:46. > :05:53.people to at least, if there is unrest, to deal with it in the
:05:54. > :05:58.proper way. We did go through it. There's no point us continually
:05:59. > :06:01.saying that the will move forward and have proven to be and then to
:06:02. > :06:07.say that we shouldn't have this dialogue. I think it is very
:06:08. > :06:14.helpful. Your party remains signed up to those commitments that were
:06:15. > :06:20.agreed in May? We remain signed up to the principles of this. We also
:06:21. > :06:27.recognise that we need to work to make sure there is no violence on
:06:28. > :06:30.the ground. But we also are committed to complaining about the
:06:31. > :06:34.police whenever the police use public order in their own way. The
:06:35. > :06:39.police are quite clear, we meet with the police all of the time. We will
:06:40. > :06:43.say when the police get it wrong. Let's talk about what might or might
:06:44. > :06:47.not happen over the next few weeks. We heard from the chairman of the
:06:48. > :06:51.tourist board saying he hopes there is not any further unrest because
:06:52. > :06:55.the unrest that we saw from last Christmas right through to the
:06:56. > :07:06.summer certainly didn't help the Northern Ireland economy, didn't
:07:07. > :07:09.help businessmen, people who run restaurants in the centre of Belfast
:07:10. > :07:12.or tourism. Do you accept that needs to be a big priority, to make sure
:07:13. > :07:15.we don't have a repeat of what has gone before? We will continue to do
:07:16. > :07:17.what we do, we don't want to see violence. Don't forget to mention
:07:18. > :07:20.that young people who are now in prison because of this. These are
:07:21. > :07:23.young people who have never been in trouble before. We don't want to see
:07:24. > :07:28.this happening, but we now have young people who are in prison. We
:07:29. > :07:32.also need to focus on the loyalist communities don't see how the police
:07:33. > :07:35.police the same way as they do everywhere else. We also see the
:07:36. > :07:38.justice system treating young loyalists and other people of all
:07:39. > :07:44.ages from loyalist communities in a different way. Howl in a different
:07:45. > :07:48.way? If they are in prison they are in prison because they did something
:07:49. > :07:49.wrong. We have people who have done very little wrong other than be
:07:50. > :07:56.involved in protest very little wrong other than be
:07:57. > :08:01.not allowed to in Belfast. Republicans are in front armed
:08:02. > :08:05.conflict offences and they are getting bail. We can do this. There
:08:06. > :08:09.are lots of things we need to look at. People in loyalist communities
:08:10. > :08:13.feel they are not getting fair treatment from police or the
:08:14. > :08:16.courts. The PBS are going back and saying that people who get suspended
:08:17. > :08:20.sentences and isn't strong enough, they are asking the judge is to put
:08:21. > :08:25.them into prison rather than suspended sentences. That doesn't
:08:26. > :08:29.happen in Republican cases. I be interested to know if Gerry Kelly
:08:30. > :08:33.agrees with anything you've said. Do you think there is an issue over the
:08:34. > :08:37.way that loyalist protests are policed compared to the way
:08:38. > :08:42.Republican protests are policed? I notice he used the word perception.
:08:43. > :08:50.There is a perception of this happening and this -- and that
:08:51. > :08:54.happening. A couple of years ago, when there were all sorts of people
:08:55. > :09:01.arrested in Ardoyne and when there was also violence in Carrickfergus,
:09:02. > :09:08.Ballyclare and other places, I was on arguing there was differential
:09:09. > :09:13.policing. I have a simple thing to say about all of that. If you want
:09:14. > :09:17.to look at the balance in this case, you have to look at this year
:09:18. > :09:21.compared to last year and the previous year. In the end, what is
:09:22. > :09:27.expected of the police is they police impartially. Do they do that,
:09:28. > :09:32.in your view? Yes, I think they are at long last. There was a period
:09:33. > :09:35.after December three last year when it took something like 13
:09:36. > :09:41.after December three last year when get them to do policing at all. I
:09:42. > :09:46.just want to comment. That's fine for Gerry talking like that because
:09:47. > :09:50.what happens is people elected in Republican communities actually make
:09:51. > :09:55.sure that they challenge it in the policing board. Our difficulty is we
:09:56. > :10:00.don't have Unionist politicians who are chart -- in this. For anyone
:10:01. > :10:06.involved in protests in loyalist communities, they feel that nobody
:10:07. > :10:12.fight their corner. The difference I say is Unionists don't do it and
:10:13. > :10:15.Republicans to do it. Far be it from me to stand up for Unionist
:10:16. > :10:20.politicians, but I do sit on a police board and some of the points
:10:21. > :10:24.that Billy is making are valid. Other people might say if you don't
:10:25. > :10:26.bring people out onto the streets to engage in protests, they will not
:10:27. > :10:30.get involved in engage in protests, they will not
:10:31. > :10:33.not get caught up in violence and not find themselves in front of the
:10:34. > :10:39.courts. Mike Nesbitt, Ulster Unionist Party leader, says people
:10:40. > :10:43.should stay off the streets and not affect the economy adversely, as has
:10:44. > :10:48.been done in the past. Does he make a fair point? Was it done before the
:10:49. > :10:53.letter or after the letter his party set out? The two main Unionist
:10:54. > :10:58.parties other people who send letters out about the flag protest.
:10:59. > :11:04.That is the genesis of all of this. Listen, it doesn't matter whether it
:11:05. > :11:09.was a very long time ago or not. Mike needs to realise that his party
:11:10. > :11:15.sent the letter out. That is the genesis of all of this. At the end
:11:16. > :11:19.of the day, in terms of protests, loyalists not allowed to protest?
:11:20. > :11:23.You would have to see Sinn Fein about that. People who took the
:11:24. > :11:27.national flag of this country... Are you talking about the leaflet that
:11:28. > :11:34.was sent out to people in east Belfast about the flag? His point is
:11:35. > :11:39.the protests last year didn't work. They were counter-productive. People
:11:40. > :11:42.need to rethink the strategy. The last thing Belfast needs and the
:11:43. > :11:49.last thing Unionism needs, Mike Nesbitt says, is for that to happen
:11:50. > :11:56.again. People can protest. If Mike has changed his tune from other
:11:57. > :12:00.protests like that, that is up to him. I do think loyalists are
:12:01. > :12:06.entitled to protest. If the protests are peaceful, what is the problem?
:12:07. > :12:17.They haven't been peaceful. They have. Very few... Very few have had
:12:18. > :12:22.violence. Too many have had violence. Not too many. Very few
:12:23. > :12:26.have had violence. It is some too many, that's the point. You can't
:12:27. > :12:30.control it when you bring people onto the streets. Mike Nesbitt is
:12:31. > :12:34.saying, don't bring them onto the streets. People are coming onto the
:12:35. > :12:39.streets. I don't see Mike giving much hope around what it is they
:12:40. > :12:42.want people to do. There is a difference between an entitlement to
:12:43. > :12:47.protest, which I would support, and whether you should be protesting,
:12:48. > :12:52.whatever the effect that protest will have. The figures were
:12:53. > :12:58.something like 55 million in damage. It was violence on the streets. The
:12:59. > :13:02.question that should be put is, does the PUP support these protests? I
:13:03. > :13:06.agree with what he said at the beginning, that it was whatever
:13:07. > :13:10.agree with what he said at the was, very political when it was put
:13:11. > :13:15.out. But the question is, what do you do with that now and is the PUP
:13:16. > :13:21.supporting the protests which are taking place? You are supporting the
:13:22. > :13:27.protests and you are supporting the protests that are planned for the
:13:28. > :13:37.30th. We are. Let me throw respect to Gerry, do we want to... Let's get
:13:38. > :13:41.real. We are where we are, this is 2013. Trying to throw it away to
:13:42. > :13:45.when the conflict was on does not solve the problem. A lot of people
:13:46. > :13:52.will be hoping politicians will find a way to make sure we don't have a
:13:53. > :13:55.repeat. Billy Hutchinson and Gerry Kelly, thank you. The battle over
:13:56. > :13:57.planning reform here could be about to escalate. The former
:13:58. > :13:59.planning reform here could be about Minister, Sammy Wilson, has told The
:14:00. > :14:02.View he believes the Planning Bill will return along with controversial
:14:03. > :14:04.amendments setting up economic planning zones and restricting
:14:05. > :14:07.possible legal challenges. Last month, the bill was withdrawn by the
:14:08. > :14:10.current SDLP Minister, Mark H Durkan, because of legal concerns.
:14:11. > :14:14.Campaigners are now warning that if the plans are brought back, they
:14:15. > :14:29.will oppose them again. Here's our Political Reporter, Stephen Walker.
:14:30. > :14:40.Planning has always been political. Here, the two largest power blocs,
:14:41. > :14:46.Sinn Fein and the EU P felt too much rested with the environment
:14:47. > :14:48.ministers. They wanted to set up special economic zones, and they
:14:49. > :14:54.wanted to change planning decisions could be
:14:55. > :14:58.challenged. SDLP saw that as a power grab, and rather than let the plans
:14:59. > :15:06.become law, they decided to withdraw the entire bill. This is where the
:15:07. > :15:11.root of much of this debate lies, Spruce field, nearly is burned.
:15:12. > :15:15.Campaigners for reform say the delays and challenging surrounding
:15:16. > :15:21.the John Lewis development shows that changes needed. To leave us
:15:22. > :15:29.without the reform and the planning system, and without a bill, the
:15:30. > :15:34.development industry, the construction industry, those
:15:35. > :15:37.involved were saying was needed, to me, is a wrong decision by the
:15:38. > :15:40.Minister and he should not be allowed to get away with this.
:15:41. > :15:47.Others suggest that the economic benefits of the planning Bill have
:15:48. > :15:54.been exaggerated. I think it is a myth that big business is behind the
:15:55. > :16:00.amendments. So you think that Sinn Fein and DUP have got that wrong? I
:16:01. > :16:04.think they are misreading the mood of the community and the business
:16:05. > :16:09.community. So when they say that business wants this, you say, show
:16:10. > :16:15.me the evidence? The businesses that I act for don't really want this.
:16:16. > :16:18.Doctor Liz Fawcett represents a series of residents groups and she
:16:19. > :16:24.insists the original plans would have reduced the rights of people.
:16:25. > :16:29.If we just allow all environmental considerations to be forgotten about
:16:30. > :16:31.and put to one side, and we become known in Northern Ireland for having
:16:32. > :16:36.a lax planning regime, which is known in Northern Ireland for having
:16:37. > :16:40.essentially what this legislation would mean, then the whole
:16:41. > :16:46.quality-of-life and quality of environment that we have will just
:16:47. > :16:49.go down the plughole. Now it seems there are efforts to rebuild the
:16:50. > :16:56.planning Bill and give it a new lease of life. It would make sense
:16:57. > :17:00.if Eileen Foster brought it forward to the assembly, come forward as a
:17:01. > :17:04.Private members Bill and there could be mechanisms used to get it
:17:05. > :17:10.introduced onto the floor of the house. The one thing I am fairly
:17:11. > :17:13.sure of is that we cannot allow a minister to ignore the will of the
:17:14. > :17:19.executive and ignore the will of the assembly, and ignore the needs of
:17:20. > :17:22.the economy. Opponents of the planning Bill say some of the
:17:23. > :17:31.original amendments are actually unlawful. They breach multiple
:17:32. > :17:35.elements of European law and the United Nations Convention, which is
:17:36. > :17:39.incorporated into the European law. The European Convention of human
:17:40. > :17:45.rights as well, and as I direct consequence of that, the amendments
:17:46. > :17:49.are beyond the legislative competence of the Northern Irish
:17:50. > :17:57.assembly. If similar amendments are presented again, many say they will
:17:58. > :18:01.continue the opposition. If you say individuals, civic societies are not
:18:02. > :18:04.allowed to take up any legal challenge against a government
:18:05. > :18:09.decision, that, to me, is anti-democratic. That is not about
:18:10. > :18:15.democracy, and to me, that is enough for me to oppose it. There was
:18:16. > :18:19.contrary legal advice on the bill. Some insisted it was unlawful,
:18:20. > :18:23.others like the attorney general, John Larkin, said such concerns were
:18:24. > :18:30.a logical. Some argue that the courts should have had the final
:18:31. > :18:32.say. -- illogical. The best way to do is accept the will of the
:18:33. > :18:35.assembly, take the legislation through and then let it be
:18:36. > :18:38.challenged in court. It wasn't legal, the courts would have made a
:18:39. > :18:44.decision and that part of the bill could have been struck out. So what
:18:45. > :18:50.would happen if the and macro -- Sinn Fein brought the original
:18:51. > :18:58.planning amendments back? -- DUP and Sinn Fein. I would say hands off. We
:18:59. > :19:01.have considerable ability and energy in terms of the Minister to deal
:19:02. > :19:08.with the planning issues effectively and efficiently, and what they have
:19:09. > :19:10.proposed in the past is illegal and wrong and they should desist from
:19:11. > :19:19.this, because it is politically unwise, and legally questionable.
:19:20. > :19:22.Much of this rests on legal interpretation. If it all comes back
:19:23. > :19:29.to store Montt, get ready for round two. -- Stormont. When politicians
:19:30. > :19:31.and lawyers will do battle once again.
:19:32. > :19:38.Here's a moral question for you. When does a political conviction
:19:39. > :19:41.become a prejudice? And is there a difference between a deeply held
:19:42. > :19:44.belief and a blinkered ideology? Many of our MLAs have very strong
:19:45. > :19:47.feelings about important issues across the board, so should we
:19:48. > :20:00.embrace our opinionated political class?
:20:01. > :20:10.# My Way - Sid Vicious. The natural order, whether one believes in God
:20:11. > :20:15.or evolution, the natural order is for a man and a woman to have a
:20:16. > :20:20.child, so that has made my views on adoption very, very clear, and on
:20:21. > :20:26.raising children, very, very clear, it should be a man and a woman. I
:20:27. > :20:29.look forward to the day that the assembly decides to end academic
:20:30. > :20:34.selection for good. Until that day I will strive to make it irrelevant,
:20:35. > :20:38.and highlight the damage it does. And maybe, just maybe, sometime in
:20:39. > :20:44.the future people's opposition might reduce. That is why I am not
:20:45. > :20:51.scrapping the National Parks Bill, but I am shelving it. In my opinion,
:20:52. > :20:58.fracking imposes... It is my opinion.
:20:59. > :21:03.Joining me now are two people with strong views on the rights and
:21:04. > :21:06.wrongs of political convictions - the Green Party's Steven Agnew and
:21:07. > :21:11.the former Alliance MLA, Seamus Close. Steven Agnew, Edwin Poots has
:21:12. > :21:19.been the focus of a lot of attention recently, justifiably so? I think
:21:20. > :21:23.so. The thing I have questioned Edwin Poots on is that he has his
:21:24. > :21:28.personal values and he has been very clear in articulating them, but I
:21:29. > :21:32.have asked for the evidence, for example with denying unmarried
:21:33. > :21:37.couples or those in civil partnerships from adopting, where is
:21:38. > :21:41.the evidence it would cause harm to children? He is yet to present --
:21:42. > :21:48.present any evidence. He has presented his values, but I think we
:21:49. > :21:49.need evidence. The American psychological Association reviewed
:21:50. > :21:53.over 500 cases and said there is no psychological Association reviewed
:21:54. > :22:00.evidence to suggest that same-sex couples raising children caused the
:22:01. > :22:03.children any harm. Seamus Close, is it acceptable to introduce
:22:04. > :22:07.legislation on personal values and convictions? If you don't have
:22:08. > :22:11.conviction, what have you got? Do you form it on lack of conviction in
:22:12. > :22:15.question at all politicians have conviction which brings them into
:22:16. > :22:19.the political reader. They want to get their views and politics across.
:22:20. > :22:24.The real question is, what is forming the opinion? What forms the
:22:25. > :22:27.opinion and conviction question mark is it religious beliefs, personal
:22:28. > :22:32.conscience, or moral values? If you answer yes to any of those,
:22:33. > :22:38.conscience, morality, are you supposed to set those aside? Because
:22:39. > :22:42.you are a legislator or a politician? Does there have to be a
:22:43. > :22:44.conflict between that and an evidential approach, or party
:22:45. > :22:48.approach question mark party policy is where you find yourself
:22:49. > :23:00.struggling in terms of personal conviction. If I could not accept
:23:01. > :23:03.party policy, do I bend over and accepted willy-nilly? Even though in
:23:04. > :23:10.my heart it was not correct? Therefore I took the stand and left.
:23:11. > :23:14.What is wrong with that? There are certain beliefs that one holds and
:23:15. > :23:20.holds them dear. You cannot be blamed for holding those particular
:23:21. > :23:23.beliefs. Here is the difference, you were not a minister at the time, but
:23:24. > :23:30.Edwin Poots and others are ministers. I am right in saying you
:23:31. > :23:35.are not serving MLA, you were retired, so you were a party member.
:23:36. > :23:39.It was less of an issue for you than it is for those standing
:23:40. > :23:41.It was less of an issue for you than dispatch box. You are partially
:23:42. > :23:46.right. Part of the reason I was not fighting the election was because of
:23:47. > :23:47.my deeply held view on a particularly -- particular issue,
:23:48. > :23:51.along with other things that happened in the past, but that led
:23:52. > :23:54.me to take a personal decision that I was no longer going to fight an
:23:55. > :24:01.election for a particular political party. There has to be a difference
:24:02. > :24:07.between beliefs and policy. Me, is. I am vegetarian, but it is not Green
:24:08. > :24:17.party policy that everyone should be. That is not a policy. If the
:24:18. > :24:22.Green party developed a policy that you had to eat meat, could you not
:24:23. > :24:27.remain in the party? I don't think that is a policy, to say you cannot
:24:28. > :24:32.eat meat. Entirely hypothetical, I understand. But it could be
:24:33. > :24:36.problematic. I take your point, but that is where right place the
:24:37. > :24:42.difference between politics and personal values. That is where a
:24:43. > :24:47.political party should be leaving room for conscience issues. I think
:24:48. > :24:51.most political parties do leave that room for conscience issues. This is
:24:52. > :24:55.about policy-making. When a minister stands up its not about private
:24:56. > :25:00.conscience, it is about directing policy. It affects everybody in the
:25:01. > :25:04.country. A minister is standing up and talking about an issue on which
:25:05. > :25:10.he is trying to get legislation. Therefore, is he wrong to try to
:25:11. > :25:14.persuade people, if it's based on an informed conscience and a principled
:25:15. > :25:20.stand? He may have to change because public opinion is against him. There
:25:21. > :25:26.is a different stream conscience and what becomes active and irrational
:25:27. > :25:31.discrimination. Me not eating meat, that harms no one, but the
:25:32. > :25:34.Minister's personal convention might discriminate against another sex or
:25:35. > :25:39.part of the community. In that sense, harm is being done and you
:25:40. > :25:42.cannot justify that in value will stop you need evidence to
:25:43. > :25:47.discriminate in a rational basis -- that in values. Fascinating stuff.
:25:48. > :25:52.We may continue this later tonight. We have to leave it there. Seamus
:25:53. > :25:55.Close and Steven Agnew, thank you. Listening to all that this evening
:25:56. > :25:58.and ready to give us their thoughts, our commentators, joining me again
:25:59. > :26:06.are Alex Kane and Paul McFadden. Let's talk about the discussion
:26:07. > :26:12.about the Cardiff talks. DUP Not there tonight. Significant, not
:26:13. > :26:16.significant? Did you get a sense? Billy Hutchinson, the explanation he
:26:17. > :26:21.gave, for the nonattendance at the talks, it does sound pretty strange
:26:22. > :26:25.that they could not send someone along, even Billy himself. He made
:26:26. > :26:29.the point that they are meant to be in the process and somebody should
:26:30. > :26:38.have been there to represent them. I have kind of very low expectations
:26:39. > :26:48.of the process. And I think perhaps it was overly optimistic. It is nice
:26:49. > :26:52.to know there is not a continuity PUP. You have the Cardiff talks, the
:26:53. > :26:55.Unionist forum, and you saw the body language, in three or four minutes
:26:56. > :26:59.they were back to the dreary staples, back to the early days of
:27:00. > :27:03.the conflict. Billy Hutchinson saying he would support this. The
:27:04. > :27:05.young people he is saying might be damaged in prison, he said he would
:27:06. > :27:09.support them. That damaged in prison, he said he would
:27:10. > :27:14.says it is the fault of the police. When he is pushed on that, his
:27:15. > :27:18.analysis is that they were involved in peaceful protests, but there is a
:27:19. > :27:24.differential in the policing of Loyalist demonstrations and
:27:25. > :27:28.Republican demonstrations. We heard Gerry Kelly say something similar.
:27:29. > :27:32.Both sides will constantly complain, and no matter how it works out, the
:27:33. > :27:36.police get it in the neck. Do you think there is a different way the
:27:37. > :27:44.policing is handled in the community? It's hard to say. I
:27:45. > :27:49.suspect that this is about pitching on a different stage for the DUP to
:27:50. > :27:56.build up supporting Loyalist communities. And the fact that they
:27:57. > :27:59.have been critical about Unionist politicians with them not raising
:28:00. > :28:06.have been critical about Unionist issues in Loyalist communities.
:28:07. > :28:16.Conviction politics, a quick word. When this personal conviction become
:28:17. > :28:19.prejudice? Henry Kissinger said that personal conviction never withstands
:28:20. > :28:23.first contact with a downturn in the polls. In Northern Ireland we have
:28:24. > :28:25.individual ministries driving things with their own ideological
:28:26. > :28:34.conviction because the system works that way is. If people come out and
:28:35. > :28:39.say what they think, they may vote for him, but what scares me is if
:28:40. > :28:45.they think what they say. Let's have a word about the political week. We
:28:46. > :28:54.saw the passing of the veteran SDLP MP, Eddie McGrady. What was your
:28:55. > :28:58.perspective on him? He was first elected the year Art. I was born in
:28:59. > :29:01.1961, but the fact that nobody has a bird work -- bad word to say after
:29:02. > :29:08.50 years in politics, that speaks volumes. I met him when I was
:29:09. > :29:10.working with Enoch Powell in Southdown, and he believed in
:29:11. > :29:15.power-sharing and reaching out long before it was necessarily needed or
:29:16. > :29:19.fashionable. That was the guy he was. Interesting to see the broad
:29:20. > :29:28.range of opinion represented at his funeral today. That is an
:29:29. > :29:33.encouraging sign, but if you know the man, what else would you expect?
:29:34. > :29:36.Let's talk about another man who was hugely popular who passed away this
:29:37. > :29:40.week. This is a tweet from David Cameron. @DavidCameron - John Cole
:29:41. > :29:47.was a titan of the BBC, and a great political reporter. Belfast's very
:29:48. > :29:58.own John Cole. He really defined the job. I got to interview the man in
:29:59. > :30:03.Port Stewart, another gentleman. A clever and classy political
:30:04. > :30:05.journalist. Hugely entertaining, ferociously well-informed. And
:30:06. > :30:09.people like him. The audience liked him, which is why they listen. They
:30:10. > :30:15.did not hear the accident, they heard him speak. One final one to
:30:16. > :30:17.strike a different note. @trishdevlin - Russell Brand at
:30:18. > :30:25.Twaddell Protest Camp. U couldn't make it up if you tried! He appeared
:30:26. > :30:28.last night, Paul. The most exciting thing to happen since read Hannah
:30:29. > :30:34.took her shirt off in the field somewhere. Could be a big one for
:30:35. > :30:38.the tourist board. I think he just misheard the Belfast accent and he
:30:39. > :30:42.thought it was a brand parade. Thank you both. That's almost it for
:30:43. > :30:44.tonight, but before we go, time for our insider's look at what's been
:30:45. > :30:59.happening up at Stormont. The MLAs do not take kindly to the
:31:00. > :31:04.early mornings and warnings even though they used to give him them
:31:05. > :31:07.out. But Mike Penning said we could lose 5 million a month if we don't
:31:08. > :31:11.sign up for welfare reform. Northern Ireland needs the money. With ?5
:31:12. > :31:14.million you could get Van Morrison's band to play for a night.
:31:15. > :31:20.Make a donation to the Lyric Theatre, then have pay some man to
:31:21. > :31:27.burn a tricolour. But the tax is ridiculous. A spare room is
:31:28. > :31:34.absolutely essential if you've been married as long as May. Well done
:31:35. > :31:37.Londonderry for providing a year of culture. A night at the Opera, a
:31:38. > :31:42.year in the industrial tribunal and a row in the papers every day. There
:31:43. > :31:46.goes Edwin Poots. Ollie, Edwin Xtra mesh might see you next time they
:31:47. > :31:51.ask you about relationships. Heterosexual, or, God forbid, gay.
:31:52. > :31:57.Say nothing! Resist the urge, big lad! That's it from The View for
:31:58. > :32:00.this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC One.
:32:01. > :32:03.For now, though, bye-bye.