:00:23. > :00:36.. Hello and welcome to The View. Tonight, he's extended consult
:00:37. > :00:40.Australia on school funding for another week, but is Johndude's
:00:41. > :00:44.proposed Commons funding scheme for our primary schools robbing Peter to
:00:45. > :00:48.pay Paul? The Education Minister Johns me live in the sty along with
:00:49. > :00:51.the principal who stands to lose thousands from his budget and the
:00:52. > :00:54.Head of One of the main teaching unions here.
:00:55. > :00:58.Under pressure - it's the toughest of all the ministerial portfolios
:00:59. > :01:01.they say. We profile the Health Minister, Edwin Poots, but is he
:01:02. > :01:06.always getting the best advice? He wants to remember, as the man who
:01:07. > :01:10.goes from crisis to crisis, that let him carry on. If he wants to be
:01:11. > :01:15.remembered for the great things he has done and the good work that he
:01:16. > :01:21.has done, he should really stop and think. And, analyse that. We are
:01:22. > :01:27.join bid two familiar faces in Commentators' Corner, Paul McFadden
:01:28. > :01:30.and Alex Kane. Plus the weekly alternative analysis.
:01:31. > :01:37.Find out what Stormont's men do all day, plus how I can help Rory
:01:38. > :01:48.McIlroy improve his golf form. You can follow us on Twitter.
:01:49. > :01:51.First toppite, primary school funding, consultation on
:01:52. > :01:56.controversial proposed changes was due to end tomorrow, but this
:01:57. > :02:01.afternoon, the Education Minister, John O'Dowd, said he's extended it
:02:02. > :02:06.for another week. Primary schools face cuts, the cuts are aimed at
:02:07. > :02:12.giving more support to those in deprived areas, with free school
:02:13. > :02:24.meals used a does barometer. Are they right that it's unfair?
:02:25. > :02:28.You are all very welcome to the programme. Minister, let me ask you,
:02:29. > :02:33.a lot of parents and principals are concerned at the impact your
:02:34. > :02:36.proposals would have on their schools if they're carried through.
:02:37. > :02:40.Are you prepured to listen to them? Yes. We have not made any final
:02:41. > :02:43.decisions. This is a genuine consultation. We have had over 6,000
:02:44. > :02:48.responses thus far and I welcome that. I'm also appealing for
:02:49. > :02:53.alternatives and public challenge, particularly to the political
:02:54. > :02:55.parties to come forward with alternatives.
:02:56. > :02:58.We have to look at the system currently, Mark. I believe it's
:02:59. > :03:02.unfair that if you are on free school meals, you have only a 34%
:03:03. > :03:07.chance of achieving a good education. If you are not on free
:03:08. > :03:14.school meals, you have a 68% chance. We have to crack that. We have to
:03:15. > :03:16.crack that in terms of education and we have to tackle social
:03:17. > :03:20.deprivation. There are 832 primary schools here,
:03:21. > :03:27.deprivation. 669 stand to lose out currently, 163
:03:28. > :03:30.stand to gain if you adopt this funding formula, so 80% of schools
:03:31. > :03:36.will be worse off, whatever you are trying to do. That's not working?
:03:37. > :03:40.First of all, we haven't included the 15.8 million extra that's going
:03:41. > :03:43.into the system next year, so all schools will see a rise in the
:03:44. > :03:47.funding. The question we haven't finalised is how we divide up the
:03:48. > :03:51.monies across the schools. If we were talking about health, we
:03:52. > :03:54.will have put the most resours unto the hospitals facing the most
:03:55. > :03:59.pressures. That would make common-sense. We talk about road
:04:00. > :04:03.safeties, we put road safety measures on the roads with the most
:04:04. > :04:06.accidents. In our education system, we have schools that face greater
:04:07. > :04:10.challenges than other schools. That's a harsh reality. We have to
:04:11. > :04:16.back that up. What is wrong with that? Nothing. I
:04:17. > :04:21.fully support the principle that the minister is trying to get to, to
:04:22. > :04:25.address social depravation and social attainment. You cannot do
:04:26. > :04:28.that and have children in 80% of primary schools across the north
:04:29. > :04:32.having a loss of reduction to their school budget. So what really we are
:04:33. > :04:35.looking for the minister to do, and I'm pleased to hear him say that
:04:36. > :04:38.it's an open and transparent consultation, he wants to hear what
:04:39. > :04:42.we have to say and we welcome that. What we are looking to do is make
:04:43. > :04:48.sure that that happens, the principle happens, but that there
:04:49. > :04:56.are no losers in this. How would your school lose out these current
:04:57. > :05:01.recommendations are carried through? According to the figures, and I know
:05:02. > :05:07.the minister said it's ?15.8 million coming in, but we have to work off
:05:08. > :05:11.the budget figures we were given as part of the consultation process. We
:05:12. > :05:15.would have lost ?40,000 this year. In the immediate impact of that, it
:05:16. > :05:19.wouldn't have been felt, but if that was something that happened each
:05:20. > :05:22.year, eventually when there are cuts, you have to make changes
:05:23. > :05:27.somewhere and you have to address that, I listened to a principal
:05:28. > :05:31.today say if she got an extra ?90,000, she would employ more
:05:32. > :05:34.teachers, cut down class sizes, fan it is a tuck. If that's the positive
:05:35. > :05:40.outcome of getting more, the opposite of that is even chillily
:05:41. > :05:45.class sizes rise -- even can chillily. -- eventually.
:05:46. > :05:49.You think you would have to lose members of staff if this went ahead?
:05:50. > :05:54.That is a potential outcome of losing ?40,000 each year, year on
:05:55. > :05:57.year. So the argument is that you are effectively replacing one
:05:58. > :06:05.inequality with another? No, we are not. I emphasise this again. That
:06:06. > :06:08.?15 million has to filter through the system. The schools are working
:06:09. > :06:14.on the figures we give them and Thunderball react to the figures. As
:06:15. > :06:17.I said earlier, if we recognise an international research reck newses
:06:18. > :06:21.that the children from a lower social economic background face a
:06:22. > :06:24.greater challenge in education than those who're not, we have to
:06:25. > :06:27.resource that and correct that inequality. We have to equip the
:06:28. > :06:33.schools and the young people to have a good education. If we don't, the
:06:34. > :06:39.people will more likely be unemploy and we'll pay for it. But he is not
:06:40. > :06:43.disagreeing with that. He says the problem is, you are doing it the
:06:44. > :06:54.wrong way? We have to take that from the pot of money we have. I'll
:06:55. > :06:58.continue to lob which t excelling executives. If a hospital faces a
:06:59. > :07:02.cry suss, we put more money in. Some schools Faws challenges more than
:07:03. > :07:07.others so we have to put the money in. What about socially deprived
:07:08. > :07:15.children in Michael's school. How many are on free school meals? Your
:07:16. > :07:19.school? 16%. 16% is... We are still going to fund the school. There's
:07:20. > :07:23.going to be a significant amount of funding going into the school.
:07:24. > :07:30.There's still going to be a significant amount... The principle
:07:31. > :07:35.calm down to the consultation event on Monday nights -- principal. Paul
:07:36. > :07:39.Sheridan talked about a school in Derry, 36% of his children in
:07:40. > :07:43.receipt of school meals and his budget was going to lose ?16,000.
:07:44. > :07:46.That makes no sense. The children there with an
:07:47. > :07:52.entitlement to free school meals are the same as the children in any
:07:53. > :07:56.other area and in my school... Do you accept that makes no sense? How
:07:57. > :08:02.do you defend that? I'll cover that point this way. The
:08:03. > :08:05.consultation covers other areas where we want to make changes. We
:08:06. > :08:10.want to make changes to funding which is given to the scald for the
:08:11. > :08:14.size of the school. We also fund currently for sports facilities in a
:08:15. > :08:20.school. That funding should go simply to pupils. That's thrown up
:08:21. > :08:24.an anomaly. That's one thing that's arose during the consultation. It's
:08:25. > :08:30.a fact in certain schools and we have to correct it. The amount of
:08:31. > :08:37.money coming in to uncrease for the AWPU doesn't match the amount that's
:08:38. > :08:41.been taken out for building work. Let us bring you in. What do the
:08:42. > :08:45.teaching unions make of this? Do you agree with what the minister is
:08:46. > :08:48.trying to do? Do you think he's approaching it in the right way or
:08:49. > :08:57.do you agree with Michael in that the execution is wrong? We believe
:08:58. > :09:01.that there should be more money spent as a minister is attempting to
:09:02. > :09:06.do in this review on children coming from socially deprived backgrounds.
:09:07. > :09:11.It's a simple case of addressing need. The impact of what's being
:09:12. > :09:16.proposed here, and we accept that what's on the table here are only
:09:17. > :09:20.proposals, but the impact of the proposals is that taking primary and
:09:21. > :09:24.post-primary schools across the entire north here, 62% will find
:09:25. > :09:29.themselves in a worse financial state than they are currently in.
:09:30. > :09:34.They are already operating very close to the red line in terms of
:09:35. > :09:38.the funding that they require. For us, that will translate, as
:09:39. > :09:42.Michael says, into a loss of jobs, be they teaching or indeed amongst
:09:43. > :09:48.our non-teaching colleagues in the end. Cumulatively, the cuts are over
:09:49. > :09:49.a number of years going to result in staff rezhunings which will result
:09:50. > :09:53.a number of years going to result in in the increase in class sizes.
:09:54. > :10:00.Breakfast breakfast But you speak for the INTO and you speak on behalf
:10:01. > :10:05.of other unions who're all in agreement on this? Everyone in the
:10:06. > :10:09.Trade Union movement are very concerned that the proposals if
:10:10. > :10:13.carried or modified from what is on the table at the moment will result
:10:14. > :10:18.in job losses. From a professional point of view, because the INTO is a
:10:19. > :10:21.professional organisation, we'll see increases in class sizes as well.
:10:22. > :10:26.That will impact as well in respect to the children's learning. Would
:10:27. > :10:31.you not see job losses in some schools losing out but recruitment
:10:32. > :10:37.in some, would it not balance itself out? No, it may not. But it might?
:10:38. > :10:45.No, I don't accept that at all. Already schools are struggling. Fuad
:10:46. > :10:50.just downwards across 62% of the sector, the higher education sector,
:10:51. > :10:54.the net result is a loss in jobs. How do you respond to that? You will
:10:55. > :10:58.lose jobs and class uses will get bigger? I understand the concerns,
:10:59. > :11:01.but we'd not lose jobs because you are spending the money in a
:11:02. > :11:05.different way. We are proposing to spend it in a different way and
:11:06. > :11:08.share it out in a different way. We'll still require the teachers to
:11:09. > :11:12.teach the classes, we'll still require classroom assistants and the
:11:13. > :11:16.additional support. It may be in a different setting than it previously
:11:17. > :11:22.was, I accept that. Which would mean a lot of upheaval? Well, we have to
:11:23. > :11:29.challenge this head-on. 34% chance of succeeding in education. Can this
:11:30. > :11:35.society afford to go down that path? Is that the best way to judge
:11:36. > :11:38.schools that are in need? Bristol university, as I understand it,
:11:39. > :11:43.carried out very detailed research and found free school meals to be "a
:11:44. > :11:46.course and unreliable indicator to judge school performance". Said it
:11:47. > :11:55.leads to biassed research. judge school performance". Said it
:11:56. > :11:59.It was carried out on the English model.
:12:00. > :12:08.There is a much lower brackets for our returns of qualifying for free
:12:09. > :12:11.school meals in England than there is here.
:12:12. > :12:18.You are very defunsive. Free school meals will be the un-Kator. That
:12:19. > :12:24.will remain the case -- un-Kator. It's a blunt instrument. How can it
:12:25. > :12:27.be? ! Free school meals, I agree with the principle. But children can
:12:28. > :12:33.have additional needs who're not entitled to free school meals. To
:12:34. > :12:38.have that as the soul amount of money -- sole amount of money or
:12:39. > :12:51.usage of how you fund giving additional needs to schools is
:12:52. > :13:05.wrong. Free school meals does not necessarily e-Kuwait to being needy.
:13:06. > :13:08.The you agree with that? -- equate. The problem fundamentally here is we
:13:09. > :13:13.are talking about the adjustment within a tight financial envelope.
:13:14. > :13:20.What we need here is auditional funding. I heard the chair of the
:13:21. > :13:23.education can committee and I heard politicians over the course of the
:13:24. > :13:26.debate this week saying we need additional funding. That's what we
:13:27. > :13:29.need to do, we need to get more money into the system. Minister, you
:13:30. > :13:35.said you were getting some more money, but there are clearly a lot
:13:36. > :13:38.of parents and unit youens -- unions not happy. You said you are
:13:39. > :13:42.listening. Are you prepared to say on this programme that you may come
:13:43. > :13:46.back with significantly modified proposals that would see schools
:13:47. > :13:49.like Michael's not losing out so much? I'm prepared to say that the
:13:50. > :13:53.principle of targeting social need will remain. How we target that
:13:54. > :13:56.social need is up for discussion, the consultation responses are
:13:57. > :14:01.continuing to come in, and I want to be able to ensure that all our
:14:02. > :14:08.schools are properly funded. I'm here to takele social deprivation
:14:09. > :14:09.and ensure all people have equal opportunities.
:14:10. > :14:13.Thank you very much. Now, the controversy over new
:14:14. > :14:16.abortion guidelines is just the latest to involve the Health
:14:17. > :14:22.Minister, Edwin Poots. Last week, a High Court judge found against him
:14:23. > :14:28.over his refusal to allow gay men to donate blood here.
:14:29. > :14:34.Some argue he's done a good job in one of the most difficult posts.
:14:35. > :14:47.This report on a minister under pressure sure.
:14:48. > :14:52.If I broke the ministerial code, it was unwittingly. It's been a not so
:14:53. > :14:56.quiet week in the life of Edwin Poots, Health Minister, accused of
:14:57. > :15:02.breaking the ministerial code by a High Court judge and criticised by
:15:03. > :15:09.gay rights grouped, underided by political opponents. Will the many
:15:10. > :15:12.now apologise? Will he lift the ban and stop taking idiotic
:15:13. > :15:18.challenges... THE SPEAKER: Order, order.
:15:19. > :15:22.Edwin Poots is unbowed. Controversial is nothing new.
:15:23. > :15:26.There was the time he got thrown out of the BBC for confronting Gerry
:15:27. > :15:30.Adams on Question Time. Or the time he and Ian Paisley
:15:31. > :15:35.junior got arrested at a dinner in Washington for heckling the
:15:36. > :15:41.Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, during a speech. Or the time he took on
:15:42. > :15:54.pro-agreement union USes on a referendum rally in Lisburn.
:15:55. > :16:00.This former Sinn Fein councillor and MLA had many battles with Edwin
:16:01. > :16:06.Poots on Lisburn Council, but later got to work with him more closely.
:16:07. > :16:09.On the monitoring group that was set up to look at the proposals,
:16:10. > :16:12.particularly the stadium and the listed buildings in the peace
:16:13. > :16:17.centre, we worked fairly well together on that there. I think he
:16:18. > :16:20.realised that if he wanted the stadium brought to Lisburn, he had
:16:21. > :16:25.to work with Sinn Fein. So he worked that, yes, and I don't think there
:16:26. > :16:31.were any problems. Support for the stay yum is said to have caused
:16:32. > :16:34.Edwin Poots his first job. His appointment as Health Minister
:16:35. > :16:38.showed how much his stock had recovered. Health is widely warded
:16:39. > :16:43.as the -- regarded as the most difficult job in the executive and
:16:44. > :16:48.many will tell you Edwin Poots has handed it well, except when it comes
:16:49. > :16:56.to high profile controversies where critics claim he's allowed his
:16:57. > :16:59.judgment to be clouded by his fundamentalist beliefs.
:17:00. > :17:04.He denied his religious principles had anything to do with it.
:17:05. > :17:09.This is not an issue of religious sty or moral views. This is an issue
:17:10. > :17:17.of public safety. Others are not convinced.
:17:18. > :17:21.Edwin Poots is a very bright guy. He's an able minister. He does have
:17:22. > :17:28.a few blind spots, that's the problem, but he said he'd bring
:17:29. > :17:30.fresh eyes to health and he did that. You couldn't say he's a badly
:17:31. > :17:35.performing minister overall, that. You couldn't say he's a badly
:17:36. > :17:36.when he gets on to the issues about which he
:17:37. > :17:42.convictions, he can sometimes let his heart rule his head. He for
:17:43. > :17:47.instance believes the earth was made 4,000 years ago. That's how old it i
:17:48. > :17:53.helpings, although there's fossil records and scientific consensuses
:17:54. > :18:00.and no scientists would agree with him. You need to sometimes question
:18:01. > :18:05.his beliefs. He's a minister who's someone that you don't have to view
:18:06. > :18:09.his conversations as difficult. He puts his cards on the table Jaysed
:18:10. > :18:13.upwards and you can hear what he's saying. You might not agree but at
:18:14. > :18:21.least he's straightforward in discussion. He rubbed some people up
:18:22. > :18:24.the wrong way? He has some strong preferences. He's not on his own in
:18:25. > :18:29.Northern Ireland, but he's probably in a minority and that's a set of
:18:30. > :18:35.circumstances we have to adjust to. What do the health professionals
:18:36. > :18:37.say? We asked this man, one of Northern Ireland's leading
:18:38. > :18:40.obstetricians. He's concerned not only about the new abortion
:18:41. > :18:46.guidelines pub lushed earlier this year, but also the ban on gay men
:18:47. > :18:51.giving blood. For now he's not blaming Edwin Poots
:18:52. > :18:55.-- published. If he comes out and says, I decided that myself, that
:18:56. > :19:00.would be wrong. I would say he was incorrect there. I don't believe he
:19:01. > :19:03.did. I believe that within his group around him, he must have had people
:19:04. > :19:07.who've told him that it was wrong and he listened to them.
:19:08. > :19:12.Maybe he's listened to the wrong people. It would be the same as the
:19:13. > :19:15.abortion guidelines on gays. He should speak to the right people. So
:19:16. > :19:19.at the moment, the person to blame, in your opinion, is not necessarily
:19:20. > :19:24.the Health Minister, but some people that were giving him advice? I'm not
:19:25. > :19:29.blaming them. I think he's a very hard working man, I like what he's
:19:30. > :19:33.doing about the thing on major decisions about closing units that
:19:34. > :19:38.aren't efficient and for redesignating units and for waiting
:19:39. > :19:44.list initiatives. He's done extremely well. He's taken brave
:19:45. > :19:47.list initiatives. He's done decisions. I don't know who he's
:19:48. > :19:51.getting advice from. If I find myself in trouble as much as he
:19:52. > :19:55.does, that's when I would question it. It depends what way he wants to
:19:56. > :19:58.be remembered. If he wants to be remembered as a man qho goes from
:19:59. > :20:01.crisis to crisis, let him carry on. If he wants to be remembered for all
:20:02. > :20:08.the great things he has done, and the good work that he has done, he
:20:09. > :20:10.should really stop and think, am I surrounding myself by the right
:20:11. > :20:16.people and always getting the right advice and am I using it in the best
:20:17. > :20:22.way possible? Maybe we all need to occasionally think, am I letting my
:20:23. > :20:30.personal religious, cultural, whatever views, interfere with the
:20:31. > :20:35.way I'm thinking. On the Kay of his appointment, Peter Robinson said
:20:36. > :20:49.he'd replace Mr Poots. -- on the day of his appointment.
:20:50. > :20:55.Edwin Poots was in the spotlight again today with the director of
:20:56. > :20:58.public prosecutions making it clear that anyone who helps a woman to go
:20:59. > :21:02.to Britain for an abortion is not committing a crime. A termination is
:21:03. > :21:04.legal there, but prohibited here, except in a few specific
:21:05. > :21:08.circumstances. circumstances.
:21:09. > :21:12.Mr Poots says he's planning to meet Mr McGreerry over the next few days.
:21:13. > :21:18.We invited the minister on the programme but he declined to take
:21:19. > :21:23.part. Let's talk to Eileen Fagan who specialises in medical law and
:21:24. > :21:30.ethics. In term poll terms, what is the law in Northern Ireland
:21:31. > :21:35.concerning abortion as things stand? There is an Act, but a common law
:21:36. > :21:38.which means judge-made law, there are exceptions to this, when a
:21:39. > :21:44.woman's life in danger or when there is a serious, permanent and
:21:45. > :21:47.long-term risk to her missical or mental health.
:21:48. > :21:50.Has the intervention from the DPP today helped to clarify the legal
:21:51. > :21:55.position surrounding abortion or not in your view? It has helped. Last
:21:56. > :21:59.week, certain cases came up about serious foetal abnormalities that
:22:00. > :22:04.were income patably with life. There was a lot of sensationalism in the
:22:05. > :22:08.media about whether women travelling to Britain for terminations there
:22:09. > :22:12.would be prosecuted or anyone giving them advice and assistance. The DPP
:22:13. > :22:16.said that's not possible. What he was doing was reaffirming a legal
:22:17. > :22:23.case of 1992 which the Minister of Health could have cleared up much
:22:24. > :22:26.earlier by saying that, you are entitled to information about legal
:22:27. > :22:30.medical services in the rest of the UK. So it is helpful because there
:22:31. > :22:34.was a lot of sensationalism and a lot of fear generated by the
:22:35. > :22:38.minister's failure to answer that question.
:22:39. > :22:42.So the minister, in your view, could clarify the situation, even further,
:22:43. > :22:47.but there still remains this grey area? The grey area was mentioned in
:22:48. > :22:51.the guidance. The guidance raised the possibility of a grey area but
:22:52. > :22:55.did not answer that question. The DPP has answered the question today
:22:56. > :23:03.very deaf nitsly, saying no-one would be prosecuted -- definitely.
:23:04. > :23:09.Now, the minister could come out and say that if a woman was suffering
:23:10. > :23:14.from severe mental health problems as a result of severe foetal
:23:15. > :23:19.abnormalities in her pregnancy and if carrying to term would cause
:23:20. > :23:23.those to be permanent or long-term, he could make a statement saying no
:23:24. > :23:27.medical staff would be prosecuted. Doctors are afraid because the
:23:28. > :23:31.threatening and, if they are in threatening and, if they are in
:23:32. > :23:35.breach of the law, remember, it's the 1861 Act saying life
:23:36. > :23:39.imprisonment. That's an interesting point. Am I right in saying that
:23:40. > :23:45.pre-the publication of the guidance in March of this year, in fact the
:23:46. > :23:56.situation arguably for healthed service workers was clearer? There
:23:57. > :24:02.was less of a threat. There was. There is anecdotal evidence that
:24:03. > :24:06.doctors were performing abortions. There is no specific case allowing
:24:07. > :24:11.that, neither is there a case for rape or incest. So there's nothing
:24:12. > :24:16.clear about that area. The minister could come out and say, if any of
:24:17. > :24:21.those situations caused a woman to have serious mental health problems,
:24:22. > :24:25.that would be covered. Of course, we have no clear legislation. That's
:24:26. > :24:30.the problem. The issue and the context for all
:24:31. > :24:35.this is the fact that a great many people here are fundamentally
:24:36. > :24:40.opposed to abortion. That is the case. That is why the 1967 Act was
:24:41. > :24:46.never brought here. However, when cases such as the women who came to
:24:47. > :24:50.the media's attention last time was brought up, people start to think,
:24:51. > :24:53.what would happen if I was in that situation, what if it was my
:24:54. > :25:00.daughter, granddaughter. They want to be consulted on issues such as
:25:01. > :25:04.foetal abnormalities. Several UN committees have insisted that the UK
:25:05. > :25:08.Government issue a public consultation on abortion in Northern
:25:09. > :25:12.Ireland. They have recommended that they remove punitive sanctions. The
:25:13. > :25:15.calls have not been responded to at all. It's an interesting debate and
:25:16. > :25:18.it will be very interesting again to see what happens off the back of
:25:19. > :25:25.that meeting between the minister and the DPP for sure. Thank you very
:25:26. > :25:31.much. We have a change of guard now in
:25:32. > :25:36.Commentators' Corner tonight, Alex cane and Paul McFadden, you are both
:25:37. > :25:41.welcome to the programme. Let's discuss Edwin Poots and the abortion
:25:42. > :25:47.debate first. Alex, some of the ministers' critics suggest he's
:25:48. > :25:52.allowing his personal views to trump, if you like, evidence-based
:25:53. > :25:57.policy-making. Is that a fair criticism? I think it is fair. There
:25:58. > :26:02.are three aspects to the debate, the first is his personal and morale
:26:03. > :26:06.view in this. He's right to be guided by that on some occasions. We
:26:07. > :26:10.are a generally conservative Northern Ireland and in that
:26:11. > :26:13.assembly, most of the parties are opposed to abortion as well. The
:26:14. > :26:17.much more specific issue, which is the equality of citizenship, if you
:26:18. > :26:22.were saying Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom but certain
:26:23. > :26:27.key moral issues, nolet just abortion but gay marriage and
:26:28. > :26:32.adoption, that abortion is a place apart. That argument hasn't been
:26:33. > :26:35.explored, particularly for someone like Poots who's evangelical about
:26:36. > :26:39.his unionism. He's somehow saying Northern Ireland is part of the
:26:40. > :26:45.United Kingdom but not in the same way as many other parts. A
:26:46. > :26:51.contradiction for many people. How do you see it, Paul? We had the
:26:52. > :26:56.judge describing his approach on the issue of a ban on gay men being
:26:57. > :27:01.blood donors in Northern Ireland, it was described as irrational and we'd
:27:02. > :27:04.end up with confusion and controversy over the guidance on
:27:05. > :27:11.abortion. It's been a disastrous week. I wonder, as a minister -- I
:27:12. > :27:15.wonder is the minister accident prone? I think other
:27:16. > :27:21.administrations, a minister who wound up in controversy might well
:27:22. > :27:24.have to fall on a sword. He may not have expected to be here because the
:27:25. > :27:28.speculation that he'd be gone in June. He may have ended up with a
:27:29. > :27:31.bundle of problems. He's nothing to lose now and ironically, Peter
:27:32. > :27:35.Robinson might be leaving him there to take the punches before the next
:27:36. > :27:40.minister comes in. An interesting perspective. Another
:27:41. > :27:45.minister under pressure, we talked to him earlier, John O'Dowd, the
:27:46. > :27:49.Education Minister. Alex, he says he's listening on this consultation
:27:50. > :27:53.on primary school funding. But he maintains a stout defence of the way
:27:54. > :27:57.he wants to carry things forward? He didn't sound like he was listening
:27:58. > :28:01.to anyone in that debate earlier. It struck me, the fact he said I will
:28:02. > :28:04.continue to lobby my colleagues for more money. It might have been
:28:05. > :28:11.better had he lobbied the executive at the beginning, agreed some son
:28:12. > :28:16.skins you view -- consensual view. Northern Ireland did some great
:28:17. > :28:19.statistics for success in one group, but something like 35% of children
:28:20. > :28:26.still leave schools in Northern Ireland with the bare minimum or no
:28:27. > :28:30.qualifications at all. The rot, that may be too generous a term, but the
:28:31. > :28:36.rot starts in primary schools. That is what he is trying to address?
:28:37. > :28:38.He's taking money from Peter to pay Paul.
:28:39. > :28:43.The minister says he's trying to tackle it and I applaud him for
:28:44. > :28:52.that. But I suppose we are talking now about science-based evidence and
:28:53. > :28:56.so on. There was a school in Derry mentioned where 35% of children are
:28:57. > :28:59.on free school meals and it will lose ?16,000 based on the figures
:29:00. > :29:02.which have been supplied thus far. We are hearing the principal saying
:29:03. > :29:07.that free school meals does not necessarily mean additional need and
:29:08. > :29:12.children on free school meals will lose out anyway. I think the
:29:13. > :29:16.minister has a job in trying to sell this to people. My concern is that
:29:17. > :29:21.somehow some of the schools have been pushed aside as being not quite
:29:22. > :29:29.as good as others, that's not been addressed. We are talking about
:29:30. > :29:33.social deprivation. You need a cross cutting issue.
:29:34. > :29:35.Let's squeeze in a couple of Tweets that caught our eye over the past
:29:36. > :29:59.couple of days. A great Tweet. That's a satirical
:30:00. > :30:03.thing on Facebook and a great Tweet. The second one. It concerns Jackie
:30:04. > :30:12.Fuller tonne. There are some people who if he
:30:13. > :30:15.wasn't going to sing again would happily pay a fortune for the
:30:16. > :30:18.microphone. That's almost it for this week.
:30:19. > :30:29.Before we go, let's get the inside view from the hill.
:30:30. > :30:37.Stormont security here. Not much happening today. So I ended watching
:30:38. > :30:41.an episode of that new programme, Northern Ireland Fireman Sam. He
:30:42. > :30:45.flogs uniforms on the side and drives away in a free Land Rover.
:30:46. > :30:52.Then somebody blows a whistle and gets suspended. Very far-fetched.
:30:53. > :30:57.Gerry Kelly is launching a book about the IRA Pru escape. You can
:30:58. > :31:04.get your book in the peace shops or the reconciliation centre. Hang
:31:05. > :31:12.on... I see ?150,000 is being paid to some. It's not the salary, it's
:31:13. > :31:21.having to work with politicians that's the problem.
:31:22. > :31:30.Rory EBREAK I would buy that violin if I was loaded. The one that was
:31:31. > :31:36.played at the Titanic before it sank.
:31:37. > :31:42.I would play it at the talks. That is it from all of us. Join us for
:31:43. > :31:45.live coverage of the Ulster Unionist conference on Saturday at noon. From
:31:46. > :31:50.all of us for now, bye-bye.