:00:10. > :00:33.Tonight, policing the political twist and turns of Northern Ireland.
:00:34. > :00:40.As Matt Baggott bows out, who will take over the top job at the PSNI. I
:00:41. > :00:45.am joined by Alan Mains, Pat Sheehan and Jonathan Creek. Plus, Power to
:00:46. > :00:51.the people. Could the citizens of firm and get to vote on fracking? It
:00:52. > :01:03.is very difficult for someone sitting miles away saying, we will
:01:04. > :01:11.track in Fermanagh. Why did Ian Paisley bare his soul in a 2-part
:01:12. > :01:19.documentary? And we're joined by ever
:01:20. > :01:23.commentators. One former senior officer described
:01:24. > :01:29.it as a job he wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Even stocking about the
:01:30. > :01:32.position of chief constable, the post-Matt Baggott has confirmed he
:01:33. > :01:44.is stepping down from later this year. First, a brief look back at
:01:45. > :01:47.the years under Matt Baggott's stewardship.
:01:48. > :01:52.He was hailed as the man who would oversee a new style of East End
:01:53. > :01:57.policing. It is a great religion to accept this position and to be
:01:58. > :02:02.appointed as the chief of the PSNI. However, the threat posed by
:02:03. > :02:10.dissident republicans was greater than anticipated. Tonight is one of
:02:11. > :02:18.the most sombre and saddest evenings of my service. Tonight tragedy has
:02:19. > :02:23.returned. Successes included securing additional funding from the
:02:24. > :02:29.Treasury to combat the dissident threat and overseeing what was
:02:30. > :02:31.described as the safest G8 summit ever held. But Matt Baggott found
:02:32. > :02:39.himself heavily criticised by Unionists and nationalists over the
:02:40. > :02:44.way the PSNI dealt with flag protests and parades. People have
:02:45. > :02:52.been identified, we will be knocking on doors. People who have been
:02:53. > :02:57.involved in an notified campaigns and obstructions. He has not exactly
:02:58. > :03:01.when he will leave. Potential successors may hope that he does
:03:02. > :03:03.them a favour and stays long enough to deal with this year's marching
:03:04. > :03:16.season. Joining me is Sinn Fein's Pat
:03:17. > :03:21.Sheehan, Alan Mains, a former head of CID and Jonathan Creek of their
:03:22. > :03:34.hump in Iraq. Is it an impossible job? No, I do not think so. When
:03:35. > :03:42.asked if he was younger witty ticket, he did not say no. This is a
:03:43. > :03:45.prestigious and well-paid job. They're looking for the best of the
:03:46. > :03:53.best, because that is what we deserve your. Is that how you see
:03:54. > :03:56.it, Jonathan Craig? Yes, and we have to be honest about this. Over the
:03:57. > :03:59.period of the Troubles, there was never really any difficulty in
:04:00. > :04:07.filling the shoes of the chief constable's job, so why would it be
:04:08. > :04:12.impossible now? It has changed because of the policing board. The
:04:13. > :04:17.chief constable is much more responsible to the police board on
:04:18. > :04:22.the ground. That might be the case, but I do not see that as a
:04:23. > :04:26.challenge, I see that as a chance for the chief constable to seek the
:04:27. > :04:29.assistance of board members. We are not bear to tear him apart, we are
:04:30. > :04:35.there to hold him to account and also to assist in times when he
:04:36. > :04:39.needs it. Do you think that that is how chief constables have seen the
:04:40. > :04:44.policing Board in the past? As a friendly bunch of people there to
:04:45. > :04:49.help, I have the seen them as people who have put enormous political
:04:50. > :04:57.pressure on them? You take your chief constables of the time, they
:04:58. > :05:09.all had their way of policing, and some would say that they were not
:05:10. > :05:15.accountable. You had the lead chief constable who said that he could not
:05:16. > :05:18.possibly work in that environment. It is difficult sometimes to strike
:05:19. > :05:23.the balance and we have lost it in the last few years, with the police
:05:24. > :05:27.board trying to tell the chief constable how to police. It takes a
:05:28. > :05:37.very robust chief constable to stand his or her ground. The charges have
:05:38. > :05:42.been laid at his daughter repeatedly. To be fair, he has taken
:05:43. > :05:47.the challenge. There have been cases where he just did not know what was
:05:48. > :05:53.coming at him, the flags for example. That fit his strategy --
:05:54. > :05:59.that pitted, budget and everything else of course. Do you think that
:06:00. > :06:03.there will be a strong group of candidates will be put off because
:06:04. > :06:12.of specific circumstances around this post? If you come from perhaps
:06:13. > :06:16.outside this jurisdiction, people might be put off by the different
:06:17. > :06:20.parties, because they can and I are fairly contentious at times with
:06:21. > :06:24.each other. I think that the people in house, as we have some really
:06:25. > :06:28.good talent year at the moment, who could possibly take that role and
:06:29. > :06:33.will certainly be putting their hat in the ring, I feel that you will
:06:34. > :06:41.have a number of good contenders. As Pat Sheehan says, we deserve the
:06:42. > :06:45.best. When people weigh up the risk to their own security, the impact of
:06:46. > :06:47.wringing their family perhaps to another part of the British Isles to
:06:48. > :06:55.live here, not necessarily, but possibly, the political tightrope
:06:56. > :07:01.walking, the unrest, do you think that at the end of the day you will
:07:02. > :07:07.have a short list? I do not see that there will be an issue. We are all
:07:08. > :07:10.we're of the issues of taking on this job, but it is still one of the
:07:11. > :07:15.most high-profile policing jobs in the whole of the United Kingdom.
:07:16. > :07:20.Some officers relish that challenge and it is a challenge for them to
:07:21. > :07:25.take on a position like that. They do like to see change take place
:07:26. > :07:29.under their readership. Matt was no different to any other chief
:07:30. > :07:34.constable, in fairness to him he did see change take place under his
:07:35. > :07:38.leadership. If Matt Baggott had come to the Policing Board in two
:07:39. > :07:47.months's time asking for an extension, would Sinn Fein have
:07:48. > :07:54.supported him? Matt would have had to make a pitch to us and explain
:07:55. > :08:01.why. Surely that is demeaning? Not at all, that is what happens. I
:08:02. > :08:04.think it is important that we point out that policing is independent.
:08:05. > :08:09.The chief constable is independent and has operational and pendants, so
:08:10. > :08:20.what that means is that he is not directed by politicians to carry out
:08:21. > :08:24.an operation, he is independent. But the problem in the past was that the
:08:25. > :08:30.lack of accountability was a poison at the heart of leasing, that is why
:08:31. > :08:37.the Policing Board is necessary. Let us move onto another story that has
:08:38. > :08:42.today. These enormous sums of money that has been paid by police to
:08:43. > :08:51.officers who said that their hearing was damaged during service. You have
:08:52. > :08:55.said that that is an acceptable. There is a fundamental principle
:08:56. > :09:00.that if people are injured in the course of their work then they are
:09:01. > :09:03.entitled to compensation. In this case, most of these police officers
:09:04. > :09:09.have received very generous pensions, many received a generous
:09:10. > :09:16.severance under... How's that relevant? Something might be legal,
:09:17. > :09:20.but it may not be ethically or morally right. It would be
:09:21. > :09:29.interesting to find out also how many of these officers who received
:09:30. > :09:32.Injury On Duty rewards have come back through the door under the
:09:33. > :09:39.retire and rehire scheme. That is something we will look into. A total
:09:40. > :09:42.of ?135 million has now been paid out, are you saying that none of
:09:43. > :09:48.that should have been paid? What I am saying is that it is in stark
:09:49. > :09:54.contrast to the experience that victims and survivors have in
:09:55. > :10:01.getting money from the Government. Police, prison service have recently
:10:02. > :10:05.been given generous payments. Some of the victims groups in my
:10:06. > :10:11.community have to jump through hoops after hoop to get any form of
:10:12. > :10:17.compensation. Legally, it may be justifiable, morally and ethically
:10:18. > :10:22.it is wrong. Is that how you see it? Not at all. The reason why we had to
:10:23. > :10:26.carry guns in the first place was pretty obvious. We were the only
:10:27. > :10:31.police force in the UK. Those are the reasons and that is why. We had
:10:32. > :10:35.to do that to defend ourselves and the community, let us get that into
:10:36. > :10:41.context. Secondly, personally myself had to go through that, regardless
:10:42. > :10:46.of myself, -- regardless of what I get, it is nobody's business. You
:10:47. > :10:49.have gone through having to carry a weapon, having to fire it, you are
:10:50. > :10:55.saying that you have also gone through the compensation process? I
:10:56. > :11:01.make no apologies for it. That was a substantial amount of money
:11:02. > :11:05.presumably. I will not comment on how substantial. We gather the
:11:06. > :11:16.figures have been substantial. Collectively speaking it is a
:11:17. > :11:21.phenomenal some. But it could have done in a different way without
:11:22. > :11:25.questioning the medical evidence. How do you respond to the fact that
:11:26. > :11:32.it is morally and ethically wrong? With the greatest respect to Pat,
:11:33. > :11:37.that is rubbish. If he wants to throw something to the victims to
:11:38. > :11:40.say, that is a different debate. I think it is a bit rich listening to
:11:41. > :11:45.Sinn Fein coming on and talking about morals and ethics. Where were
:11:46. > :11:49.the morals and ethics that led to the police officers having to carry
:11:50. > :11:56.arms in the first place? The 30 or 40 years of murder and mayhem that
:11:57. > :11:59.was on the streets. I will also see this to you, there is a
:12:00. > :12:02.responsibility on the board, to be quite honest with you, the health
:12:03. > :12:08.and save the of those officers was not properly looked after when they
:12:09. > :12:12.were being trained in firearms. That may be an historic issue, but it is
:12:13. > :12:18.an issue that we have to pick up the pieces of. Finally, what about where
:12:19. > :12:22.the board was on all of this when these decisions were being made? You
:12:23. > :12:28.are responsible for how the Chief Constable spends his money. ?135
:12:29. > :12:32.million, were you asleep on the job? Far from it. We have challenged many
:12:33. > :12:37.of the figures that have come in and the way that many of these officers
:12:38. > :12:40.are being paid. But there has been a gravy train culture that has been
:12:41. > :12:46.there for many years and it is time for that -- time for that train to
:12:47. > :12:51.pool into the station. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much
:12:52. > :12:54.for joining us. Local referendums are common enough
:12:55. > :13:00.in town halls in England, but only something that we could see here?
:13:01. > :13:10.Councillors in Fermanagh have asked whether it could be possible to hold
:13:11. > :13:19.a referendum on fracking. The G8 should Fermanagh off to the world.
:13:20. > :13:25.-- showed. It also gave protesters a platform and unlike previous G8
:13:26. > :13:29.summits, the majority were not against global capitalism or Third
:13:30. > :13:38.World debt, for many, their concerns were closer to home, like plans to
:13:39. > :13:41.extract gas using a controversial method old hydraulic fracturing, or
:13:42. > :13:48.fracking. Some are prepared to go a step further. They have asked the
:13:49. > :13:54.council to look at the feasibility of holding a local referendum to
:13:55. > :14:00.gauge opinion on fracking. People believe their voices are not being
:14:01. > :14:04.heard, decisions being made far away from the canning software fracking
:14:05. > :14:10.will happen. It is easy for people many miles away to see letters frack
:14:11. > :14:18.Fermanagh, when they will not be affected by it daily. To give space
:14:19. > :14:23.for that to be heard is important. The idea would be to have the ballot
:14:24. > :14:28.on the same day as the European and local government elections in May.
:14:29. > :14:32.While not opposed to testing local opinion on fracking, one veteran
:14:33. > :14:38.councillor says there are other ways of going about it. There should be a
:14:39. > :14:45.local way, interviewing 100 people, or 300, whatever, which will be a
:14:46. > :14:50.lot cheaper. And more likely to happen, because I do not think it
:14:51. > :14:55.will happen, because I do not think government will allow it to happen.
:14:56. > :15:00.I cannot see them devolving that power to Fermanagh District Council
:15:01. > :15:07.to give in to the request a proposal made by Sinn Fein. Elsewhere,
:15:08. > :15:10.Scotland is gearing up for its own referendum on independence in
:15:11. > :15:16.September. It is not uncommon for referendums to be held by local
:15:17. > :15:25.authorities in England. That is a precedent for a council holding one
:15:26. > :15:31.here in Northern Ireland. This is about the closing of recreational
:15:32. > :15:38.facilities... The council organised a referendum around the issue of
:15:39. > :15:42.Sunday opening. We got fantastic feedback and the majority of people
:15:43. > :15:47.said that they wanted facilities opened. It gave us the opportunity
:15:48. > :15:51.to take on the view of the public and open facilities. If the same
:15:52. > :15:56.thing arose, and the discontent within the community that there was,
:15:57. > :16:02.it would be useful for public representatives to run a referendum.
:16:03. > :16:07.The theory is attractive. That is according to one academic who has
:16:08. > :16:11.studied the effect of referendums. If you think democracy is to do with
:16:12. > :16:14.the will of the people, especially if you think it is not something
:16:15. > :16:19.that simply happens once every five years, people spending half an
:16:20. > :16:24.putting one tech beside one political party, then forgetting
:16:25. > :16:29.about it for four or five years. If you think democracy is ongoing, in
:16:30. > :16:35.between elections, then referendums, or direct Odyssey, is one way of
:16:36. > :16:43.trying to ensure that citizens are included. -- direct democracy. But
:16:44. > :16:48.on a practical level, is there is scope for holding a local
:16:49. > :16:52.referendum? So while this idea for a referendum on fracking has been
:16:53. > :16:58.raised in Fermanagh, what do the authorities make of it? The Northern
:16:59. > :17:02.Ireland Office is responsible for parliamentary, European and local
:17:03. > :17:06.government elections, as well as referendums under an act of
:17:07. > :17:11.Parliament, but not a local referendum and it says in general
:17:12. > :17:15.one like that suggested in Fermanagh would not be legally binding on the
:17:16. > :17:20.government. The Department of the environment oversees local
:17:21. > :17:24.government. It says there is nothing specific in legislation that allows
:17:25. > :17:28.for a council referendum. If a council was to hold one, it may have
:17:29. > :17:32.to get the permission of the environment Minister to spend the
:17:33. > :17:38.money. And after hearing all of that, it's aim is the proposal comes
:17:39. > :17:43.back to Fermanagh and the messages, if you want the referendum, go
:17:44. > :17:48.ahead, but you are neuron. Council officials will issue a report on the
:17:49. > :17:53.feasibility of the proposal to the full council next week and will not
:17:54. > :17:57.comment until then. But one man says he will be surprised if officials
:17:58. > :18:05.are enthusiastic about progressing the idea further. There would have
:18:06. > :18:09.to be a great deal of authenticity. That is a big problem. And what are
:18:10. > :18:17.you left with? You are left with an opinion. And that opinion, whether
:18:18. > :18:24.it is effective or not, is open to question. If all the hurdles were
:18:25. > :18:29.cleared, a countywide referendum could cost around ?100,000, a place
:18:30. > :18:34.Fermanagh councillors may have to decide if it is worth paying for one
:18:35. > :18:43.side of the fracking debate to score a moral victory over the other.
:18:44. > :18:49.Accusations of assassination with word and deed and calling the MP for
:18:50. > :18:52.North Belfast a cheeky sod. There's been some very unparliamentarily
:18:53. > :18:55.language on the lips of the Paisley family this week about former party
:18:56. > :18:59.colleagues. But then again, when families fall out, they tend to do
:19:00. > :19:02.so in spectacular fashion. And as the First Minister, Peter Robinson,
:19:03. > :19:09.said at his recent party conference, the DUP has close family ties. I
:19:10. > :19:13.think that there's a tendency on the part of the media to look at the
:19:14. > :19:19.Democratic Unionist party as if it is any other political party it is
:19:20. > :19:22.not. It is a special creation, a family more than a political party.
:19:23. > :19:26.You do not have the backstabbing that you have in other parties.
:19:27. > :19:32.There is always support, we have a good relationship. Relationships and
:19:33. > :19:35.family were a theme that Mr Robinson returned to today when our political
:19:36. > :19:38.editor Mark Devenport asked him about the situation facing Ian
:19:39. > :19:45.Paisley Jnr in the wake of the documentary. I gave him advice as a
:19:46. > :19:52.father, rather than as a party leader, or as First Minister, and I
:19:53. > :19:55.do not think you should see or do anything that makes his relationship
:19:56. > :19:58.with his family any more difficult, an important one to keep,
:19:59. > :20:06.particularly at this stage of their lives. You do not think this will
:20:07. > :20:10.affect his future in the party? It will not, and not any relationship
:20:11. > :20:15.with me, and I hope gets that message and is not put under
:20:16. > :20:19.pressure by people like yourself. So, where does all of that leave the
:20:20. > :20:23.DUP now? Joining me are Professor Jon Tonge, the author of a
:20:24. > :20:26.forthcoming book on the DUP. And the man Lord Bannside chose to spill the
:20:27. > :20:34.beans to. Eamonn Mallie. Amen, first of all, any regrets? From me? Not at
:20:35. > :20:39.all. It was an extraordinary experience. What about the
:20:40. > :20:42.experience of Lord Bannside first of all since the programme was
:20:43. > :20:49.broadcast. Did he expect the reaction? These people have been
:20:50. > :20:53.around a long time, taking the brickbats, stones, abuse over the
:20:54. > :21:02.years, so I do not think this came as a surprise. And you spoken to him
:21:03. > :21:06.since Monday? Yes, at least three times, he does not regret anything,
:21:07. > :21:13.and I think he is relieved, and glad he had done it. So he is not sorry
:21:14. > :21:19.and he does not think his legacy has been spoiled by saying what he said?
:21:20. > :21:23.He was was emphatic that he wanted his version of history, his story
:21:24. > :21:31.told from exactly as he saw the world. Even though it is, as we have
:21:32. > :21:37.seen, in touch sharp contrast to the views of the current party leader,
:21:38. > :21:41.his successor Peter Robinson? Mr Paisley was not coerced, was not
:21:42. > :21:49.forced, and all the nonsense about him being senile ab blown away --
:21:50. > :21:58.have been blown away, he spoke with great Wasilla -- he spoke with great
:21:59. > :22:03.clarity. And you have spoken with the baroness, is she also happy?
:22:04. > :22:08.They do not seem to be unhappy with anything. I have woken with several
:22:09. > :22:12.members of the family every day since the programme has gone out.
:22:13. > :22:16.They are quite relaxed, they expected the abuse to be directed at
:22:17. > :22:23.them in the media, but they were very adamant that they were going to
:22:24. > :22:29.put before the public their version of history. And how they felt they
:22:30. > :22:36.had been cheated by the church and by the party. So just to be clear,
:22:37. > :22:40.more a case of Lord Bannside and the baroness wanting an opportunity to
:22:41. > :22:46.get it off their chests, rather than you persuading them? That suggestion
:22:47. > :22:52.is a little mischievous. The bottom line is I had no knowledge of what
:22:53. > :22:57.had been going on beneath the radar, beneath the water, when I embarked
:22:58. > :23:02.on this. I can any other practising journalist, we had heard reports
:23:03. > :23:06.about the 12 Apostles and those of whom I speak, they know who they
:23:07. > :23:09.were, the dissidents at a certain time, we have heard reports of
:23:10. > :23:14.positions that alleged certain things, but no certain knowledge
:23:15. > :23:20.when I embarked upon this. It was only through deep research all of
:23:21. > :23:24.this came to the surface. An Professor Jon Tonge from Salford.
:23:25. > :23:29.Were you surprised first of all that the family took part in the
:23:30. > :23:34.programmes? Yes, because the DUP has been good at keeping its problems
:23:35. > :23:38.internal. Clearly short-term embarrassment for the DUP, but not
:23:39. > :23:47.doing them any harm. And since Ian Paisley step-down, current
:23:48. > :23:53.membership joined since. And the DUP was already moving to become a post
:23:54. > :24:00.Ian Paisley party. And even when he was leader, the party wanted to
:24:01. > :24:04.become post Paisley. The DUP have their views on the people still
:24:05. > :24:10.voting for the Ulster Unionist Party, who will not bother, because
:24:11. > :24:14.they still see it as a party of Ian Paisley. It is more in sorrow than
:24:15. > :24:20.anger that Ian Paisley has said what he said. And what he has done is
:24:21. > :24:24.exposed himself as a billy no mates, falling out with such a vast range
:24:25. > :24:30.of figures right across the spectrum. Even his own party. It was
:24:31. > :24:36.appointment to view television. What did you make of the programmes?
:24:37. > :24:40.Fascinating television. They could not have been better, and great
:24:41. > :24:45.credit to Eamonn Mallie to get Lord Bannside to speak so freely. But in
:24:46. > :24:51.party terms, the DUP wants to move on. Although they did not force Ian
:24:52. > :24:57.Paisley out, the one not rules that allowed a coup to take place in
:24:58. > :25:03.quite the way Ian Paisley said, but people glad to see him go, because
:25:04. > :25:08.the DUP wants to move on, to become a more normal centre-right party.
:25:09. > :25:11.The largest angle the nomination within the DUP is the free
:25:12. > :25:16.Presbyterian Church. And the type of member joining in recent years, far
:25:17. > :25:22.less is that tendency. It will take a generation, possibly two, or that
:25:23. > :25:26.to be phased out. But the DUP wants to move on to a more normal liberal
:25:27. > :25:31.Craddick party and offer a stout defence of the union, but an
:25:32. > :25:36.economic case, rather than an ethnic case, we have the DUP wants to go.
:25:37. > :25:43.Some people thought Ian Paisley would be a barrier to that, because
:25:44. > :25:47.of his historical legacy. Do you think this has damaged Ian
:25:48. > :25:53.Paisley's political legacy? All history judge differently? Yes,
:25:54. > :25:58.because he will be seen as the man who fell out with everyone, even
:25:59. > :26:01.turning on his own party. People wanted to hasten his exit, not being
:26:02. > :26:09.able to force might, although he went out, albeit with some
:26:10. > :26:12.encouragement from the leadership. The DUP hasten the process of it no
:26:13. > :26:20.longer being seen as a party of Ian Paisley. Wanting to hoover up the
:26:21. > :26:26.votes of people voting for the UUP. Thank you very much. Is that how you
:26:27. > :26:35.see it? Is Ian Paisley now billy no mates? I am not in his own everyday,
:26:36. > :26:45.do not know who is ringing him, -- not in his home. At some of the
:26:46. > :26:51.things he has said are nonsense. But he just said it was a fantastic
:26:52. > :26:55.programme. It is going to change history, the obituaries will have to
:26:56. > :27:03.be rewritten. What you disagree with? Practically everything the
:27:04. > :27:08.professor said, Ian Paisley did not voluntarily leave the Democratic
:27:09. > :27:14.Unionist party -- the Democratic Unionist Party. It is nonsense to
:27:15. > :27:20.suggest he walked away. The dogs in the street know he did not walk
:27:21. > :27:23.away. We're does this debate go from here? It seems that our two
:27:24. > :27:30.diametrically opposed positions on what happened. In your version of
:27:31. > :27:34.events, their version of events, is that the matter over and done with
:27:35. > :27:41.now it is in the public domain or will this affect the DUP in the
:27:42. > :27:45.future? It is virtually impossible. We can pontificate, but the public
:27:46. > :27:56.will judge, this is a democracy. Every critic in the land rubbished
:27:57. > :28:01.Mrs Brown's Boys, dismissed it, then it was Top of the Pops at Christmas.
:28:02. > :28:04.The Democratic Unionist Party has spoken out against Mr Paisley, that
:28:05. > :28:10.is democracy, and the people will decide. None of us can tell at this
:28:11. > :28:16.time will happen come the elections. Fascinating stuff. Not sure how you
:28:17. > :28:22.managed to bring Mrs Brown into this. I much prefer your
:28:23. > :28:35.documentaries. Did you watch it? I hated! -- I keep it. That is what
:28:36. > :28:44.they all say. -- hate it. Let us see what our experts say.
:28:45. > :28:49.Quite a lively debate. Deidre, did you watch the programme open mode
:28:50. > :28:54.like the rest of those? I was, and I was struck by what Eamonn Mallie
:28:55. > :29:02.said about the family having no regrets. But the world and his wife
:29:03. > :29:06.were criticising it, feeling the programme was counter-productive,
:29:07. > :29:09.that Mr Paisley and his wife delivered a self-inflicted blow to
:29:10. > :29:15.their legacy. One thing coming out of it is he is so unaware of what is
:29:16. > :29:20.going on in the wider world, that he is without blame, everyone else is
:29:21. > :29:24.to blame, DUP, the church, and a huge amount of heart and
:29:25. > :29:29.disappointment within the DUP about how they have been detected, and Mrs
:29:30. > :29:34.Paisley comes out as a formidable woman. I loved her saying, I may
:29:35. > :29:42.make jam, but it does not mean I do not have an opinion. Many would say
:29:43. > :29:47.she is the power behind the throne. And interesting that the bonobo
:29:48. > :29:53.greats -- that there were no regrets, but is he billy no mates?
:29:54. > :29:59.Cutting himself permanently apart from the party and the church?
:30:00. > :30:03.Everything has been mired in controversy, as it always has been
:30:04. > :30:08.with his career right from the very first, a controversial figure,
:30:09. > :30:15.divided views, he was either pushed off he jumped, I suspect it is
:30:16. > :30:20.somewhere in between, that he was teetering, and a determination
:30:21. > :30:27.within the DUP to move the party on. To carve out territory for itself.
:30:28. > :30:30.Paisley had his uses pragmatically when he was First Minister, and
:30:31. > :30:40.important that he was during that period, but will he be like the
:30:41. > :30:48.ghost of Banqui? -- Banquo? Ponting Peter Robinson? I do not think so.
:30:49. > :30:51.Many people have firm opinions about the legacy of Ian Paisley before the
:30:52. > :30:55.programme, and I am not sure many views will be altered, other than
:30:56. > :31:06.the fact he is a man clearly licking his wounds. Weird as it leaves Ian
:31:07. > :31:11.Jnr? -- we're does it leave Ian Jnr? That is a difficult one. Peter
:31:12. > :31:16.Robinson's remarks were slightly condescending when addressing Ian
:31:17. > :31:21.Jnr, like he was a father figure, rather than as leader of the party.
:31:22. > :31:27.I do not think it will damage election prospects in Northampton.
:31:28. > :31:36.But a cold house for Ian Jnr? For a time, I think so. Maybe a storm in a
:31:37. > :31:41.teacup? Maybe we move on? I think we move on, it will have a short-term
:31:42. > :31:49.impact, will it affect DUP electorally? I do not think so. Ian
:31:50. > :31:52.Jnr, Peter Robinson's remarks were quite double-edged, but I do not
:31:53. > :31:59.think it will have a long-term impact. The DUP wants to move on, to
:32:00. > :32:04.modernise, the bat on has moved on and Mr Paisley is seen as the past
:32:05. > :32:10.and has little impact in Belfast. And the final word about Matt
:32:11. > :32:17.Baggott going. No great surprise. The easy to get a successor? It is
:32:18. > :32:23.still a plum job one of the main teaching jobs in the UK. Along with
:32:24. > :32:29.The Met, for example. It is an attractive proposition, if a
:32:30. > :32:32.challenging job. Matt Baggott is trying to move the PSNI from
:32:33. > :32:39.policing apart from the community to fleecing becoming heart of the
:32:40. > :32:47.community. -- to policing. The big conundrum will be have -- do we have
:32:48. > :32:54.to go outside, or could we be mature enough to pick someone indigenous?
:32:55. > :32:57.Who will find out soon enough. That's it from The View for this
:32:58. > :33:12.week. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35pm here on BBC One.
:33:13. > :33:19.Our hearts were broken for Ian. That was the first time I heard Ian
:33:20. > :33:27.preach, it was amazing. I think the Assaf and eight it him. -- I think
:33:28. > :33:34.they are fascinated him. MUSIC: "Stand By The Me".
:33:35. > :33:43.And as spirit arising from some the other MPs. -- nasty spirit. His name
:33:44. > :33:47.was cleared by the authorities, everything that was said against him
:33:48. > :33:52.was proved to be false and there was no sleaze, he never brought any, his
:33:53. > :33:57.wife never did anything wrong.