:00:00. > :00:31.Tonight, he was Tony Blair's adviser on Northern Ireland, he has been
:00:32. > :00:34.described as the key architect of the peace process and he has been
:00:35. > :00:41.credited with and went for the on the runs policy. We speak to him
:00:42. > :00:50.about peace, the past and political deadlock. Is it ethical to send MLAs
:00:51. > :00:55.to learn about ethics. I think it is important we meet
:00:56. > :00:57.people involved in lobbying in the US, where they have had regulation
:00:58. > :01:02.on this issue for some time. I don't see the benefit of members going to
:01:03. > :01:07.talk about a document that is online.
:01:08. > :01:16.How we shenanigans of House Of Cards compare with our political system.
:01:17. > :01:21.The thing is that the House Of Cards invariably collapses.
:01:22. > :01:26.We are joined by Paul McFadden and Alex Kane in the studio.
:01:27. > :01:33.You can join in the debate on Twitter as ever.
:01:34. > :01:40.Violence could very well re-emerge as a character escapes --
:01:41. > :01:46.characteristic of daily life. That was the stark warning from Richard
:01:47. > :01:50.Hass in Washington this week. How poor are the prospects for continued
:01:51. > :01:56.peace? Jonathan Powell was Tony Blair's chief of staff during the
:01:57. > :02:00.negotiations that led to the Good Friday agreement and he said some of
:02:01. > :02:07.the on the run letters provided to put Republicans. I asked for his
:02:08. > :02:15.reaction to the Richard Hass comment. I have read what he said
:02:16. > :02:17.and it seems extremely sensible. Unless you tackle the deeper
:02:18. > :02:23.problems of sectarianism, you will have albums again and you will not
:02:24. > :02:30.have solved it. -- violence against. The peace process is not like a
:02:31. > :02:32.fairy story. There is a bigger problem that has to be addressed by
:02:33. > :02:37.politicians afterwards. He also said that while things have
:02:38. > :02:43.improved, and clearly they have improved, this place still has a
:02:44. > :02:47.long way to go before it can set an example and others will want to
:02:48. > :02:53.emulate. I agree up to a point. I think there
:02:54. > :02:57.is a great magic about the fact we managed to reach agreement in
:02:58. > :02:59.Northern Ireland and I have met many people interested about what lessons
:03:00. > :03:05.they can learn both from the mistakes we made and successes we
:03:06. > :03:09.had. That is not to say the peace agreement solves everything. There
:03:10. > :03:16.are the problems of politics, violence and there is a problem of
:03:17. > :03:18.sectarianism. Richard referred to the peace walls. There were fewer of
:03:19. > :03:25.them when we signed the agreement and there are today so there are
:03:26. > :03:28.problems. There are not least flags, parades and the past.
:03:29. > :03:34.He tried to tackle those outstanding issues that still hadn't been
:03:35. > :03:38.resolved. He failed. I think failure is harsh.
:03:39. > :03:42.He tried extremely hard, he put his soul into it and I think he deserves
:03:43. > :03:46.a huge amount of credit for doing that. He wasn't that far off an
:03:47. > :03:52.agreement that it was the political parties who were not prepared to
:03:53. > :03:55.sign up. The blame belongs to the political parties who weren't
:03:56. > :03:58.prepared to find a solution. It is interesting, on the issue of
:03:59. > :04:02.whether or not we are a model for peace building elsewhere. He says
:04:03. > :04:08.much of the world looks to Northern Ireland as a model of peace building
:04:09. > :04:15.but all this is premature. Mature? Hard-hitting stuff.
:04:16. > :04:20.I think you've was being sensible. He was making the point that the
:04:21. > :04:26.peacemaking was not easy. It was nine years before we actually had
:04:27. > :04:30.the Good Friday agreement and the institutions up and running. There
:04:31. > :04:34.is a stage that comes after that and it is very difficult. It means
:04:35. > :04:37.generations of hatred has to be put behind you and we haven't found a
:04:38. > :04:43.way of dealing with the past or dealing with the symbolic issues,
:04:44. > :04:45.like the flags and the parades. It has to be tackled by the politicians
:04:46. > :04:50.in Northern Ireland. But there is still a dangerous
:04:51. > :04:54.vacuum in Northern Ireland, do you accept that? I don't accept that.
:04:55. > :04:57.There is a government with the political parties in Northern
:04:58. > :05:03.Ireland and it is their duty to find a solution. There is another problem
:05:04. > :05:09.in Northern Ireland and that is that the loyalists, the people who feel
:05:10. > :05:12.like they have been left behind by the peace agreement and they didn't
:05:13. > :05:17.do as well out of it as the republican communities. I think some
:05:18. > :05:21.of that resentment is coming out in this issue of flags and parades.
:05:22. > :05:28.There is no one who represents them. David Ervine was a sad loss and his
:05:29. > :05:31.departure led part of the community to not having a voice. That has led
:05:32. > :05:36.to the continuing troubles over the flags, parades and being able to
:05:37. > :05:40.deal with the past. That is an interesting point which
:05:41. > :05:46.leads me neatly onto the issue of on the runs, which has been a huge
:05:47. > :05:51.issue here in recent weeks. It has been reported that loyalists are
:05:52. > :05:55.struggling to contain their anger over the letters, especially after a
:05:56. > :05:59.75-year-old man was arrested yesterday over a bombing that killed
:06:00. > :06:07.15 people. You understand how they feel aggrieved with 200 letters, as
:06:08. > :06:14.they see it, protecting people from prosecution. Of course they would
:06:15. > :06:17.feel aggrieved if they felt like there were letters offering amnesty
:06:18. > :06:22.to Republicans but it is this leading to say that.
:06:23. > :06:28.We never managed to find a solution to OTR. It was an the table at
:06:29. > :06:32.Weston Park and it was on the table at the negotiations that followed
:06:33. > :06:39.but we couldn't find a satisfactory solution. The legislation failed.
:06:40. > :06:46.There was never a deal on OTRs and people who say there was our
:06:47. > :06:51.misleading. But Unionists will say that you never got an aboveboard
:06:52. > :06:58.deal that we could see so you did a side deal with Sinn Fein that
:06:59. > :07:01.guarantees clarity for these 200 OTRs and Unionists say they knew
:07:02. > :07:08.nothing about it. There was no deal on OTRs, as we
:07:09. > :07:13.said. The letters say they are not pardons, not amnesties, and they
:07:14. > :07:17.tell people who are not wanted that they are not wanted. This was not a
:07:18. > :07:25.deal. It was letting people know they weren't wanted to come back.
:07:26. > :07:31.How can Unionists say they didn't know about it?
:07:32. > :07:34.You will have to ask them. Maybe we judge who is doing the
:07:35. > :07:38.prime ministers enquiry will go into that but I'm not here to make
:07:39. > :07:44.trouble for the politicians. You say in your book that the DUP
:07:45. > :07:51.said they could accept the implications they made on OTRs as
:07:52. > :07:56.long as Tony Blair wrote to Ian Paisley, saying that these were
:07:57. > :08:04.agreed during Trimble's work. How does that tie in? That was written
:08:05. > :08:08.in 2008 and I don't want to go into new suggestions about who knew what
:08:09. > :08:13.and when. The book was based on my diaries and
:08:14. > :08:16.the Number ten papers for the decade we were in government but I don't
:08:17. > :08:21.want to start casting aspersions and blame. What we want to try and do is
:08:22. > :08:25.get politicians focused on solving some of these problems of the past,
:08:26. > :08:30.not beating each other over the head with them. Peter Robinson's response
:08:31. > :08:34.is that it is nonsense. He said he wasn't aware of the
:08:35. > :08:39.arrangements and the DUP was against the idea of people being released
:08:40. > :08:46.after two years in prison. Why would they accept this arrangement for
:08:47. > :08:48.OTRs? He said the assertion doesn't make sense.
:08:49. > :08:53.That's fine. You have to ask him about that.
:08:54. > :08:59.I know you say you stand by it but he says it's nonsense. My response
:09:00. > :09:02.is I stand by the book which is based on contemporaneous diaries and
:09:03. > :09:09.the Number ten papers and that is what is reflected in the book.
:09:10. > :09:15.I am saying what happened at the time as recorded at the time.
:09:16. > :09:19.Can you understand the particular concern over the issue of royal
:09:20. > :09:24.pardons for Unionists. There were 13 issues, is tooting -- including for
:09:25. > :09:29.the man responsible for the bombing that killed two people. You accept
:09:30. > :09:34.that is difficult for Unionists to swallow?
:09:35. > :09:37.I think anything to do with the pass and crimes of that sort is
:09:38. > :09:40.difficult. If you remember how difficult it was when we aggrieved
:09:41. > :09:45.the two years that people would be released after the Good Friday
:09:46. > :09:48.agreement. People would like to choose the bits they like about the
:09:49. > :09:52.peace agreement and not the bits they don't like. In the end, they
:09:53. > :09:58.are compromises between people who have differing views. That was the
:09:59. > :10:01.point of the Good Friday agreement and the point of the negotiations
:10:02. > :10:09.that followed. It is difficult for both sides. Tony Blair said in his
:10:10. > :10:12.memoirs, he would often stretch truth part breaking point in order
:10:13. > :10:17.to get an agreement in the Northern Ireland peace process.
:10:18. > :10:24.Is this an example of that? It is not. There are other examples
:10:25. > :10:33.of destructive and the unity -- constructive ambiguity. But not on
:10:34. > :10:37.OTRs. Because we never came to an agreement and we have never got
:10:38. > :10:40.language on it into any agreement. But there was still an
:10:41. > :10:45.administrative scheme. You say there was never agreement,
:10:46. > :10:50.there was never legislative agreement but the issue was dealt
:10:51. > :10:51.with. It wasn't and that is the point.
:10:52. > :10:54.There are still people wanted for crimes who can't come back to
:10:55. > :10:59.Northern Ireland because they would be arrested. This was raised in the
:11:00. > :11:05.case of John Downey and the reason the judge dropped the case because
:11:06. > :11:09.the police had made a mistake. Not because of an amnesty but because
:11:10. > :11:15.the judge failed to reflect the fact the Metropolitan police wanted him.
:11:16. > :11:20.It was not an amnesty. They were letters telling people they were not
:11:21. > :11:26.wanted they can come back. -- couldn't come back. What do you
:11:27. > :11:28.make of the enquiries into the scheme?
:11:29. > :11:33.We have one in Westminster, a select committee enquiry, we have one
:11:34. > :11:38.instalment, we have David Cameron's judge led enquiry. To those help our
:11:39. > :11:43.understanding or hinder it? I think David Cameron was sensible
:11:44. > :11:50.to save the peace process by agreeing to it and it was a
:11:51. > :11:53.pragmatic move. In Northern Ireland I notice that people want enquiries
:11:54. > :11:57.on their site but not the other side. It is another aspect of this
:11:58. > :12:06.pick and choose agreement. They want to look into a grievance they have.
:12:07. > :12:10.But what the other side wants. It is not surprising it is difficult in
:12:11. > :12:12.Northern Ireland because even the truth and reconciliation process in
:12:13. > :12:18.South Africa is awed by many in South Africa to be inadequate, both
:12:19. > :12:22.from the Nationalist party point of view and the ANC point of view. It
:12:23. > :12:28.is always difficult to deal with the past. And you don't feel like you
:12:29. > :12:31.have anything to fear from the four enquiries, investigations that are
:12:32. > :12:36.just getting underway? I have given evidence in ten
:12:37. > :12:40.enquiries so far in my career and I'm always willing to give more
:12:41. > :12:46.evidence. Do you expect to be giving
:12:47. > :12:52.evidence" Mac I don't know but -- to be giving evidence" Mac I don't know
:12:53. > :12:57.but I am prepared to do it again. Do you think Tony Blair may be
:12:58. > :13:01.called to give evidence to the select committee?
:13:02. > :13:06.I have no idea. You will have to ask him.
:13:07. > :13:09.Have you spoken to him about this issue since it came into the public
:13:10. > :13:14.domain? No. Thank you for joining us on the
:13:15. > :13:19.programme. Good night.
:13:20. > :13:22.Should the taxpayer still be funding expensive trips to Washington by our
:13:23. > :13:25.politicians or should we call time on our love affair with Saint
:13:26. > :13:29.Patrick 's Day in the US capital? The Ulster Unionist leader
:13:30. > :13:32.questioned why five members of one is the committee need to be there to
:13:33. > :13:38.study ethics that he is there himself as chair of the committee.
:13:39. > :13:39.Gareth Gordon looks back on our long association with the folks on
:13:40. > :13:51.Capitol Hill. For two decades, Washington in March
:13:52. > :13:55.has been a magnet for Northern Ireland politicians. Everybody in
:13:56. > :14:07.the peace process has been to the White House as guests.
:14:08. > :14:15.Among the first was a young Gary McMichael, then leader of the Ulster
:14:16. > :14:18.Democratic party. Unionism was looking at the Irish-American lobby
:14:19. > :14:23.and saying, what has it got to do with them? Regardless of whether it
:14:24. > :14:33.was anything to do with them, they have an influence. They were hearing
:14:34. > :14:39.one side of the story. The other part of the community would not
:14:40. > :14:41.engage with them. No longer in politics, he now runs a charity
:14:42. > :14:52.which addresses the impact of alcohol and drug abuse. You haven't
:14:53. > :14:58.got that level of political imperatives today. We are in a peace
:14:59. > :15:03.process which is unstoppable. It is not going to falter at the point
:15:04. > :15:07.where it collapses. We have an administration, in fact successive
:15:08. > :15:10.administrations, which are less interested and less engaged in
:15:11. > :15:17.Northern Ireland. It is important to remain engaged and maintain the
:15:18. > :15:22.relationship. It has got to the point now where attendance at these
:15:23. > :15:28.events is something that has become more of a formality. They were not
:15:29. > :15:32.politicians but few people from Northern Ireland have had as much
:15:33. > :15:38.impact in the US capital as the sisters of Robert McCarty. They went
:15:39. > :15:44.for three years but turned down a subsequent invitation because they
:15:45. > :15:48.felt their work there was done. What do they do when they go over there?
:15:49. > :15:55.Pretend everything is grand? I sure they arch rang to get business. But
:15:56. > :16:03.the Americans are not stupid. -- I am sure they arch rising to get
:16:04. > :16:08.business. If you are going to access the White House on our behalf and
:16:09. > :16:15.you are going to get paid, tell us what you are therefore and what you
:16:16. > :16:17.intend to bring back. Of course, the days of the annual exodus from this
:16:18. > :16:27.building to Washington every March are long gone. But still it is a
:16:28. > :16:31.hard habit to break. This year, the exodus includes five members of the
:16:32. > :16:36.assembly's privileges committee, free from the DUP and one from the
:16:37. > :16:46.Sinn Fein and the Alliance. They are reviewing the MLA's code of conduct.
:16:47. > :16:51.We open it up to as many people who can go as possible. It is a valuable
:16:52. > :16:56.trip to make sure we understand the issues around ethics in the US. If
:16:57. > :17:01.we want a radical code that is fit for purpose, we need to go outside
:17:02. > :17:05.of the UK and Ireland. Will some people question whether it is worth
:17:06. > :17:08.the money? We think it is worth the money in terms of going to
:17:09. > :17:14.understand the issues around the world. We are going to minimise the
:17:15. > :17:21.cost as much as possible. But this is the first trip this committee has
:17:22. > :17:25.taken. It is important to meet the people involved in lobbying in the
:17:26. > :17:30.US. They have regulation over this issue. Lasted, members of the
:17:31. > :17:39.Stormont committee clashed over how many of them should go to
:17:40. > :17:43.Washington. -- last year. I will not be going to Washington because I see
:17:44. > :17:47.no justification for sending five people when in previous years two
:17:48. > :17:51.seemed adequate. Mike Nesbitt says the stands committee should have
:17:52. > :17:56.reduced the size of its delegation. It is a code of honour like this for
:17:57. > :18:02.the US house of representatives, which I have just printed off in
:18:03. > :18:07.this building. I'm not sure what the added value is in spending all that
:18:08. > :18:12.money. Three of the five who are flying out all in the same party.
:18:13. > :18:16.Why isn't one sufficient for foreign travel? That is the movie apply. But
:18:17. > :18:24.he is travelling to Washington this year. I am going to represent the
:18:25. > :18:28.whole of the office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister.
:18:29. > :18:31.That is something that has been done down the years and has a track
:18:32. > :18:35.record of working and providing a benefit. I don't see the benefit of
:18:36. > :18:39.three members of one party going to joke about document that is
:18:40. > :18:51.available online. It will work out less than two dozen member. That is
:18:52. > :19:02.in keeping with previous records. -- less than ?2000. To actually have
:19:03. > :19:07.some conversation, I think when George Mitchell was here, he found
:19:08. > :19:15.having a meal together, it was much better. The crack was better. They
:19:16. > :19:26.could play to a dialogue that is meaningful. The recent visit by
:19:27. > :19:31.former President Clinton and Richard Haass' appeal this week are
:19:32. > :19:36.reminders that the US maintained an interest in our affairs. Fans of the
:19:37. > :19:42.Washington have it seemed guaranteed their fix for good while yet. --
:19:43. > :19:54.fans of the Washington habit seemed guaranteed.
:19:55. > :19:59.The first and deputy first ministers are of course in Washington tonight.
:20:00. > :20:03.They have been reacting to those comments that Northern Ireland is at
:20:04. > :20:06.risk of returning to violence. Our political correspondent, Martina
:20:07. > :20:12.Purdy, is in Washington, too. She has been talking me through what
:20:13. > :20:19.they have been saying. They're both expressed appreciation for the role
:20:20. > :20:24.that Dr Haass had played. They have tried to reach up, Myers on flags
:20:25. > :20:31.and the past. Mr McGuinness said they owe him a debt of gratitude. --
:20:32. > :20:37.they have tried to reach a compromise. Perhaps Mr Robinson went
:20:38. > :20:44.a bit further than the Deputy First Minister. He said Dr Haass' comments
:20:45. > :20:48.were unhelpful. Martin McGuinness said he remained optimistic that
:20:49. > :20:52.there would be no return to conflict. He said he based this
:20:53. > :20:55.assessment on the fact that ministers were committed to peace
:20:56. > :20:57.and prosperity in the Stormont executive and people on the ground
:20:58. > :21:04.were working with the police. He said that dissidents wouldn't be
:21:05. > :21:07.allowed to drag us back. I also interviewed Doctor Alistair
:21:08. > :21:11.MacDonald, who is here in Washington. He has played a role in
:21:12. > :21:22.the smart eyes-macro multiparty talks. -- in those multiparty talks.
:21:23. > :21:26.He thinks it is a call for Northern Ireland to get back on track. You
:21:27. > :21:35.have been talking to lots of people. Is there any sign of breakthrough? I
:21:36. > :21:40.spoke to Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness at length this morning.
:21:41. > :21:44.Peter Robinson was very upbeat about the prospects for political
:21:45. > :21:47.compromise on these issues. We come from different political
:21:48. > :21:51.backgrounds. Of course there are going to be difficulties along the
:21:52. > :21:54.way. Look on the difficulties we have already overcome. We will
:21:55. > :21:59.overcome the ones we are facing at the present time. We will outline to
:22:00. > :22:04.the vice president the progress that has been made by party leaders over
:22:05. > :22:09.the last number of weeks. I believe it is tantalisingly close in some
:22:10. > :22:16.areas. Hopefully, as soon as we get the enquiry at other way and we get
:22:17. > :22:26.results as to what the are, we can move onto the issues of the past.
:22:27. > :22:34.Account of the way. -- get the enquiry out of the way. We have to
:22:35. > :22:42.conclude a deal on vital issues to do with victims and identity. What I
:22:43. > :22:48.expect to hear from the vice president is the same message of
:22:49. > :22:53.President Clinton. We are in an election cycle. We are facing
:22:54. > :22:58.European and local government elections. Elections are not
:22:59. > :23:02.conducive to political compromise. I think that is why most observers
:23:03. > :23:09.aren't optimistic that a deal is close. How would you say the trip is
:23:10. > :23:16.going, given that there is obvious disappointment in Washington at the
:23:17. > :23:22.lack of progress? They had been in California for a trade mission
:23:23. > :23:28.trying to invest in jobs back home. They were both upbeat about their
:23:29. > :23:31.experience there. They had a range of meetings with creative
:23:32. > :23:35.industries. They had a good meeting with HBO and also with Seagate
:23:36. > :23:40.technologies. Peter Robinson said he would be disappointed if there was
:23:41. > :23:43.not a substantial outcome from this. Sources say there could be a
:23:44. > :23:48.positive announcement in the weeks ahead. They both arrived here
:23:49. > :23:53.upbeat. They have to be mindful that when somebody of the calibre of
:23:54. > :23:57.Doctor Richard Haass is warning people we are at risk of returning
:23:58. > :24:01.to violence, it makes it more difficult to sell Northern Ireland.
:24:02. > :24:05.Is comments that Northern Ireland might no longer be a model for
:24:06. > :24:08.conflict resolution if we don't address the innate -- alienation and
:24:09. > :24:13.division, those are strong words. That makes it difficult to sell
:24:14. > :24:17.Northern Ireland as a place to invest. But they are upbeat. They
:24:18. > :24:22.had a good trade mission to California. They opened the new
:24:23. > :24:28.investor office in San Francisco, which was attended by the mayor. The
:24:29. > :24:32.men are due to visit the White House tomorrow, we know. We also know they
:24:33. > :24:37.are meeting Joe Biden when they are there. What about the President?
:24:38. > :24:44.There is still some significant actors available. Peter Robinson and
:24:45. > :24:49.Martin McGuinness will be meeting Joe Biden. It is their first formal
:24:50. > :24:54.meeting with him. They are going to be meeting him in the White House.
:24:55. > :24:58.Joe Biden has taken a close interest in those talks. The ministers see
:24:59. > :25:01.that as a good sign that the administration is still very focused
:25:02. > :25:06.and that they still have excellent access here. There will be a lot of
:25:07. > :25:12.attention on whether President Obama drops into the meeting. Even though
:25:13. > :25:16.he is very busy with the crisis in Kiev, I think it will be a sign of
:25:17. > :25:19.some discontent if President Obama doesn't call in to see our ministers
:25:20. > :25:26.personally, even though they have met him eight times already. They
:25:27. > :25:30.say they Joe Biden is very significant. In the past, for
:25:31. > :25:35.example, they have met the chief of staff. The fact that they are
:25:36. > :25:42.getting that access in the White House shouldn't be taken for
:25:43. > :25:47.granted. And of course, the vice president is due to make a major
:25:48. > :25:53.speech to Irish-Americans tonight. Joe Biden is being honoured with a
:25:54. > :25:58.peace award by the Ireland funds. You are going to see the elite of
:25:59. > :26:03.Irish America gather. Based on what the White House said this week, that
:26:04. > :26:06.Joe Biden would be speaking to Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness about
:26:07. > :26:08.building peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland, I think that is a
:26:09. > :26:12.theme he will be touching upon tonight. The catchphrase in
:26:13. > :26:20.Washington this weekend is finish the job. That is what President
:26:21. > :26:23.Clinton said last week. Let's see what a night's commentators have to
:26:24. > :26:31.say about that annual pilgrimage to the states. Paul McFadden and Alex
:26:32. > :26:38.Kane with me. Welcome to you both. Paul Connew Jonathan Powell. He
:26:39. > :26:48.stands by the comment in his book. -- Paul, Jonathan Powell. He stands
:26:49. > :26:54.by it. I won't repeat them. He came across as slippery character. He
:26:55. > :27:03.says, there never was a deal on on the runs. But it seems there was a
:27:04. > :27:08.deal. We have had the letters, Royal pardons, all sorts of information
:27:09. > :27:12.fed back. Unless I misunderstood, even John Downey said he thought
:27:13. > :27:15.that his arrest was a breach of agreement with the British
:27:16. > :27:27.government. Something seems to be happening here. Did it up -- add up
:27:28. > :27:31.for you, Alex? It was bizarre. All the way through this, it is clear
:27:32. > :27:35.there has been a deal. Last Friday the Secretary of State said she
:27:36. > :27:38.should have apologised to the First Minister and the rest of the
:27:39. > :27:44.executive for not having informed them. Then he says there is no deal
:27:45. > :27:52.and welcomes the four enquiries. Why the unique even one enquiry it
:27:53. > :27:59.doesn't make sense. -- why do you need even one enquiry? It doesn't
:28:00. > :28:06.make sense. The on the runs have never had their positions clarified.
:28:07. > :28:12.Is it dancing on the head of a pin? It is waltzing on the head of a pin.
:28:13. > :28:19.You can't say there is no deal but there might have been for the on the
:28:20. > :28:25.runs who didn't ask. The ones who did ask have been given a letter and
:28:26. > :28:39.told they could come and go across the UK. By any definition, that is a
:28:40. > :28:44.deal. According to Richard Hass, we are not a great example of peace
:28:45. > :28:50.building. Is that right? I have the feeling that we have
:28:51. > :28:55.politicians going back to Washington for a number of years, getting a
:28:56. > :29:00.royal treatment, sitting at the top table. I get the feeling they are
:29:01. > :29:05.being told there is no such thing as a free lunch. I think there is an
:29:06. > :29:10.expectation on the politician is at the highest levels in America that
:29:11. > :29:14.they deliver. There are reasons that people expect politicians here to
:29:15. > :29:19.deliver as well, with the announcement of job losses. People
:29:20. > :29:25.have been applauding politicians for working together on trying to save
:29:26. > :29:28.those jobs, albeit unsuccessfully. There is a certain expectation in
:29:29. > :29:32.the states that at politician will finish the job. Do you think it was
:29:33. > :29:35.imprisoned for the first Minister and the Deputy First Minister to
:29:36. > :29:40.have that amount and made when they were out of the country?
:29:41. > :29:44.The jobs? They must have known it was coming. Paul's first the
:29:45. > :29:50.politicians were working together but all they have done is trotted
:29:51. > :29:54.out a series of pointless statement saying this will affect people 's
:29:55. > :29:59.lives but no response, no attitude about how they are going to replace
:30:00. > :30:05.those jobs. It is all the usual. I think it is crocodile tears.
:30:06. > :30:11.Peter Robinson says Richard Hass's view about a return to violence also
:30:12. > :30:13.says we are tantalisingly close to agreement on flags, parades and the
:30:14. > :30:19.past. I find that very unlikely. In
:30:20. > :30:25.defence of Richard Hass, I think it is unlikely that the peace process
:30:26. > :30:30.is unstoppable. Richard Hass is not here to spin.
:30:31. > :30:37.Alex Robinson is 3000 miles away from the deal. It is dead here and
:30:38. > :30:43.it was dead there. It has recently been announced that a third series
:30:44. > :30:48.of the House Of Cards is to go into production.
:30:49. > :30:52.The antics of Francis Underwood, lies, manipulation and even murder
:30:53. > :30:54.paint a bleak picture of political life but how does it compare to our
:30:55. > :31:17.own house on the Hill? If you had a programme or a drama
:31:18. > :31:23.based on this place, it might be somewhat on the tedious and boring
:31:24. > :31:28.side. Is it compare to hear? I couldn't possibly say. All the
:31:29. > :31:33.intrigue and plots and Canada plot that go on, this place has nothing
:31:34. > :31:41.to Coronation Street in terms of gossip.
:31:42. > :31:44.-- counter plots will stop I don't think it is as interesting as the
:31:45. > :31:49.House Of Cards but we do have some of the big characters.
:31:50. > :31:55.The good thing about the House Of Cards is that it invariably
:31:56. > :32:00.collapses so bring it on. No surprises to hear Jim Allister
:32:01. > :32:06.said that. You worked in Stormont for a while. How did visitors is
:32:07. > :32:12.politics in Stormont? -- duplicitous? Thing here is leaked
:32:13. > :32:18.within ten seconds of it happening. I wish it was because often it is
:32:19. > :32:22.accompanied eye something being done and people doing it with a purpose
:32:23. > :32:28.but they just bitch about each other for no reason.
:32:29. > :32:35.If that how you see it? I don't think there is that clever
:32:36. > :32:39.intrigue. I don't think our politicians are sophisticated enough
:32:40. > :32:43.to prep with that. I will probably get nailed for saying that but I
:32:44. > :32:48.don't think it is the kind of thing we saw in the House Of Cards. I saw
:32:49. > :32:52.the first version. The American version is very good
:32:53. > :33:00.too. Someone has contacted us through Twitter. It is from the
:33:01. > :33:13.fictional character Frank Underwood. This is an account with 25,000
:33:14. > :33:17.followers. Jarrod is a real congas meant and he is wearing horrendous
:33:18. > :33:22.getup. There is something sinister about that. It is weird that someone
:33:23. > :33:25.who is anonymous gets that many followers that you can be as
:33:26. > :33:31.horrible as you like when you are anonymous.
:33:32. > :33:38.I can sign up and just be nasty. We have got to leave it there. That
:33:39. > :33:41.is it from us for today. Join us at 1135 on BBC One on Sunday. Thank you
:33:42. > :33:43.very much.