:00:00. > :00:27.Tonight, the First Minister unveils his "nuclear option" to solve the
:00:28. > :00:37.welfare reform stalemate. Handing back powers to Westminster. People
:00:38. > :00:42.are capable of governing -- if people are not capable of governing,
:00:43. > :00:47.that power should not be devolved. Why should a person needing the best
:00:48. > :00:54.hip operation, best cancer drugs, why should be the vanished? -- why
:00:55. > :00:56.should those people be punished? Peter Robinson attacks his coalition
:00:57. > :00:59.partners, condemns the on-the-runs deal and describes Gerry Adams as a
:01:00. > :01:02.negative influence at Stormont. Plus we are all minorities now. As a
:01:03. > :01:05.new report suggests Belfast's protestant majority has gone, how
:01:06. > :01:09.will politicians deal with the new reality? The chair of the Community
:01:10. > :01:13.Relations Council joins me live in the studio.
:01:14. > :01:15.And with plenty to say on all of that, we'll hear from our
:01:16. > :01:18.commentator double-act of Cathy Gormley- Heenan and Newton Emerson.
:01:19. > :01:20.And you can, of course, join the debate on Twitter. That's
:01:21. > :01:29.@BBCtheview. The First Minister has weighed into
:01:30. > :01:35.the welfare reform row, angry at what he sees as the intransigence of
:01:36. > :01:38.Sinn Fein on the issue. Mr Robinson has upped the stakes by discussing
:01:39. > :01:41.what he calls his "nuclear options". Among them, the handing back of
:01:42. > :01:45.certain powers to Whitehall. Earlier today, I went to Stormont Castle to
:01:46. > :01:49.talk to Peter Robinson. I began by asking him to explain the agreement
:01:50. > :01:54.on welfare reform he thought he'd reached with Martin McGuinness. We
:01:55. > :02:00.sat down with Sinn Fein and, for a period of six to nine months, we
:02:01. > :02:05.looked at the issues concerning both them and others in terms of the
:02:06. > :02:11.sharper edges of welfare reform. We negotiated a package, which had the
:02:12. > :02:18.removal of what is known as the Bedroom Tax for anybody in a
:02:19. > :02:22.property in Northern Ireland. And we agreed that we should have a
:02:23. > :02:27.contingency fund and we looked at putting aside up to 30 or ?40
:02:28. > :02:34.million to deal with the special hardship cases that would flow from
:02:35. > :02:37.it. As with any other set of negotiations, the Sinn Fein
:02:38. > :02:43.representatives have to go back to their party, and I have to go back
:02:44. > :02:47.to mine. We got approval from the Democratic Unionist Party from the
:02:48. > :02:51.package, Sinn Fein was not able to get agreement from their party for
:02:52. > :02:56.the package. And in the 11 months since then, they have never come
:02:57. > :03:03.back to us to ask for any further changes, nor have they succeeded in
:03:04. > :03:09.all of their negotiations with the British government in getting any
:03:10. > :03:12.changes to the process at all. Did you believe that Martin McGuinness
:03:13. > :03:18.and his team locally here at Stormont had agreed to a deal? I
:03:19. > :03:24.would not take any package to my party colleagues I was not satisfied
:03:25. > :03:32.with myself. So you felt he was satisfied with the compromises
:03:33. > :03:36.within that agreement? Neither of us were saying it was brilliant, but
:03:37. > :03:40.both recognise this was the best that could be made of it, providing
:03:41. > :03:46.the best welfare package in the whole of the United Kingdom. And it
:03:47. > :03:52.is your belief you took that agreement to the wider party and
:03:53. > :03:56.they said no? It is not my belief, it is my knowledge. He asked me to
:03:57. > :04:01.meet him on a Saturday when he informed me that was the case, 11
:04:02. > :04:06.months ago, in May of 2013, and in the intervening months, there have
:04:07. > :04:11.been no changes negotiated by Sinn Fein or the SDLP for that matter,
:04:12. > :04:15.and we have a final position, so let's remove this nonsense that
:04:16. > :04:19.people are still going on about that some hope we can go back and
:04:20. > :04:23.negotiate further. We have our final position from the Treasury, past the
:04:24. > :04:31.point of any return. The position has been set out in letter. The cuts
:04:32. > :04:34.have already begun. Does that leave due to the conclusion that Martin
:04:35. > :04:44.McGuinness has had his wings clipped within Sinn Fein wish and Mark --
:04:45. > :04:47.within Sinn Fein? Things have changed, and massively
:04:48. > :04:52.over the last year also, with the rise of Sinn Fein.
:04:53. > :04:57.over the last year also, with the clear that they are having
:04:58. > :05:01.difficulty in having a party in government in Northern Ireland and
:05:02. > :05:06.the party in opposition in the South. And the reality is the
:05:07. > :05:10.sensible things that you need to do and have to do, and some of them
:05:11. > :05:15.require difficult decisions, here in Northern Ireland, because we are in
:05:16. > :05:18.government, the sort of dry curry in the south, economic illiteracy in
:05:19. > :05:24.the side, in terms of their opposition position, they will not
:05:25. > :05:27.allow sensible positions to be taken in Northern Ireland, because it
:05:28. > :05:34.might shore up the position adopted in the side. Alex Maskey is says you
:05:35. > :05:39.seem to be replacing the Ulster Unionist Party as the Tory's party
:05:40. > :05:43.in the North with a welfare state manifesto? We will go forward with
:05:44. > :05:49.pragmatic decisions, which are manifesto? We will go forward with
:05:50. > :05:56.necessary. Not burying our head in the sand. The fact is if Sinn Fein
:05:57. > :06:00.does not accept the reality of the situation in terms of the budget
:06:01. > :06:05.cuts taking place, online services in Northern Ireland will be hit,
:06:06. > :06:09.that is not avoidable, the money is out of our budget, we have to reduce
:06:10. > :06:17.spending because they are being penalised by not putting forward the
:06:18. > :06:27.enhanced welfare package. That is if you except Danny Alexander's
:06:28. > :06:33.position... Do not accept? You are a mature and intelligent man, do not
:06:34. > :06:39.try to be selling. That is what Sinn Fein says. You should know better
:06:40. > :06:45.than to put ludicrous positions like that. Nobody believes them. Nobody
:06:46. > :06:49.could believe them. The Treasury has already taken the money I. How many
:06:50. > :06:54.times do I have to say the money is not there? -- taken the money out.
:06:55. > :07:03.There is already a reduction in the budget. It has already happened. So
:07:04. > :07:09.this is not a DUP administration, it is a coalition of five parties, so
:07:10. > :07:13.you and Martin McGuinness hold considerable sway, there seems to be
:07:14. > :07:18.no agreement between the two of you on this position. How do we move
:07:19. > :07:25.forward from here? You are seeing it has to happen, he says it is not
:07:26. > :07:28.happening. What happens next? Let us also remember we had the bases on
:07:29. > :07:32.which we could move forward which she could not sell to colleagues.
:07:33. > :07:37.which we could move forward which The reality is the cuts have taken
:07:38. > :07:41.place. -- which he could not sell. I am of the few we cannot have cuts in
:07:42. > :07:46.the health service. It has to be protected. But we need to have
:07:47. > :07:50.serious discussions within the executive right now, we cannot wait
:07:51. > :07:55.until the elections are over, until the summer is over, those decisions
:07:56. > :08:00.need to be taken now as to where the cuts will be imposed. The position
:08:01. > :08:06.of champagne is by implementing these cuts, -- the position of Sinn
:08:07. > :08:11.Fein is by implementing these cuts, you are taking money out of the
:08:12. > :08:17.local economy. This is economic illiteracy. There was a trajectory,
:08:18. > :08:21.which I will try to explain simply in case anyone from Sinn Fein is
:08:22. > :08:26.watching, the trajectory for increase in benefits was something
:08:27. > :08:29.of that order, but it is going to be increasing at a lower level under
:08:30. > :08:33.the new level. The money they are talking about is the differential
:08:34. > :08:37.between the perfect world and what is the case, not money coming out of
:08:38. > :08:42.the economy of Northern Ireland, it will not be there, though there is
:08:43. > :08:47.no loss of ?450 million topped about by some Sinn Fein representatives.
:08:48. > :08:55.-- topped about. This is mythical money. You topped last night about
:08:56. > :09:02.the nuclear option. If necessary. What are those options? If I start
:09:03. > :09:07.wheeling them out, and there are a whole series of options we can
:09:08. > :09:09.consider, and indeed probably most Biba that know how government
:09:10. > :09:18.operates knows what those options might be. But if I start wheeling
:09:19. > :09:22.them out, then I am threatened... But the phrase nuclear op and sounds
:09:23. > :09:29.very threatening, so you need to be clear. Front line services cannot
:09:30. > :09:34.take the cuts. Therefore we will have a penalty to pay. You cannot
:09:35. > :09:38.ignore it, you cannot spend as if the penalty was not imposed upon us.
:09:39. > :09:44.The money will not be there for us to use and if we go through spending
:09:45. > :09:47.limits, let's be clear what happens, the amount that we spend over what
:09:48. > :09:53.was allocated is taken of the following year, lust for the penalty
:09:54. > :09:59.is imposed upon us. So this is not something we can dodge, it is
:10:00. > :10:04.something we have to deal with. I suppose that is one of the economic
:10:05. > :10:07.nuclear options, what about the political nuclear option? When the
:10:08. > :10:12.bull here a phrase like that, they feel there may be some political --
:10:13. > :10:19.when people hear a phrase like that, they may feel there is some
:10:20. > :10:24.political dimensional. Any option we talk about is politics, this is all
:10:25. > :10:28.about politics, and can be simple saying to the government, this
:10:29. > :10:32.government is not competent to take difficult decisions, because two of
:10:33. > :10:35.the parties in the five particle addition are not prepared to take
:10:36. > :10:41.difficult decisions, therefore you have to take this option, -- this
:10:42. > :10:45.office, and some people including myself arguing that from the
:10:46. > :10:49.beginning, that in areas where there should be parroted it should not be
:10:50. > :10:58.devolved. That is one option. -- there should be parity. And are you
:10:59. > :11:04.coming to that view that that is what is necessary?
:11:05. > :11:08.If people are not capable of governing, that power should be
:11:09. > :11:13.double. Why should the person who needs a hip operation, the person
:11:14. > :11:17.who needs the best cancer drugs, why should those people be punished
:11:18. > :11:24.because the SDLP and Sinn Fein are not prepared to take difficult
:11:25. > :11:26.decisions? Are you saying that the political mature at the required to
:11:27. > :11:30.run Northern Ireland for ourselves does not exist at the moment and one
:11:31. > :11:34.of the options has to be that you go back to the Secretary of State and
:11:35. > :11:40.Prime Minister and say you have done your best and cannot do any more? It
:11:41. > :11:46.is clear that this moment it does not exist with all the parties that
:11:47. > :11:49.unnecessarily apart. That was one of the nuclear options. Another is to
:11:50. > :11:53.recognise that we will not be prepared to sign up to any budget
:11:54. > :11:58.next year on the prepared to sign up to any budget
:11:59. > :12:03.the fact that there is a reduced budget available to us. And
:12:04. > :12:06.therefore we would not agree that budget in those circumstances, then
:12:07. > :12:11.the permanent secretary of the Department of finance has to step in
:12:12. > :12:15.and people will only have 95% of their previous year's budget
:12:16. > :12:21.available and the remainder will pay for the penalties, so they will not
:12:22. > :12:25.dodge it one way or the other. It would get you and Sinn Fein off the
:12:26. > :12:29.hook if we went back to direct rule for a time. Got everything up and
:12:30. > :12:32.running again then said we are in the straight and narrow, you can
:12:33. > :12:39.reconstitute yourselves as a devolved administration. We are
:12:40. > :12:45.talking about two things. You are suggesting a further option, one
:12:46. > :12:49.that would be contemplated only in the most dire circumstances. I am
:12:50. > :12:53.that would be contemplated only in talking about the government taking
:12:54. > :12:57.back particular devolved powers. The power that has not been exercised
:12:58. > :13:01.properly by Sinn Fein and the SDLP, because they are refusing to deal
:13:02. > :13:06.with the realities and that particular power could be taken
:13:07. > :13:10.back. It is not available in Scotland or Wales, Northern Ireland
:13:11. > :13:14.alone has that power as a devolved government. That is why Scotland and
:13:15. > :13:21.Wales are looking at other issues and presently and of the new regime
:13:22. > :13:24.taking place in England. An important subject in terms of what
:13:25. > :13:35.you heard yesterday presumably about the alleged actions from the NIO
:13:36. > :13:40.regarding OTRs. We have Gerry Adams called Number 10 saying he wanted
:13:41. > :13:44.Gerry McGeough released, we hear Number 10 contacted the PSNI to make
:13:45. > :13:48.that case, that is part of an ongoing select committee enquiry,
:13:49. > :13:51.obviously, but quite a reaction already to some of what we heard
:13:52. > :13:59.yesterday. How did you regard it? Surprised? Surprised would indicate
:14:00. > :14:05.I did not believe that Gerry Adams would be capable of attempting to
:14:06. > :14:09.get anybody to bypass the normal policing and judicial processes, so
:14:10. > :14:13.I am not surprised that that kind of activity, I do recall when we were
:14:14. > :14:17.dealing with policing and justice, how we were all being lectured that
:14:18. > :14:20.it was essential to have a process where there was operational
:14:21. > :14:25.independence on the part of the police, so if at the end of the
:14:26. > :14:30.enquiry, the enquiry concludes that there was that interference, then
:14:31. > :14:31.there are questions to be asked and answered by Downing Street, The
:14:32. > :14:35.Northern Ireland Office and answered by Downing Street, The
:14:36. > :14:41.the then Chief Constable or whoever it was made contact with Norman
:14:42. > :14:47.Baxter on that occasion. You talked about Gerry Adams' role in that
:14:48. > :14:51.reported series of telephone conversations and you said you
:14:52. > :14:56.weren't surprised at it. How would you sum up Gerry Adams' influence
:14:57. > :14:59.over Stormont at the moment? He is the president of Sinn Fein, he is a
:15:00. > :15:04.member of the parliament in a different jurisdiction, but does he
:15:05. > :15:07.still have an influence over Sinn Fein in this building?
:15:08. > :15:17.Unquestionably, and it's a very negative influence. (xxx) I know in
:15:18. > :15:20.terms of getting decisions taken. The decisions we might take might
:15:21. > :15:23.cause difficulties for Gerry Adams and his colleagues. I know some of
:15:24. > :15:30.the changes taking place within personnel in Sinn Fein, more
:15:31. > :15:35.hard-line people of being brought in, people more akin to Gerry
:15:36. > :15:39.Adams' position, to ensure the Stormont politicians of Sinn Fein
:15:40. > :15:43.behave themselves. It is a very damaging influence. Do you think
:15:44. > :15:48.Martin McGuinness is less hardline than Gerry Adams, more of a
:15:49. > :15:51.pragmatic politician? I think there's a much more pragmatic
:15:52. > :15:56.approach from Martin McGuinness. He recognises what he needs to do. I
:15:57. > :16:00.just think there are deep divisions within Sinn Fein that are causing
:16:01. > :16:05.great difficulties to the process we are involved in. Finally, what would
:16:06. > :16:08.you say to people watching this interview who would say, frankly,
:16:09. > :16:13.I've had a belly full of the whole thing. As far as politicians are
:16:14. > :16:16.concerned, a plague on all their houses, and one thing I will not be
:16:17. > :16:20.doing on May the 22nd is encouraging them by voting for them, I want
:16:21. > :16:23.doing on May the 22nd is encouraging nothing to do with it? Undoubtedly
:16:24. > :16:32.there are some people who take this self-righteous position. But who are
:16:33. > :16:37.the politicians? The politicians are the people they elect to take the
:16:38. > :16:40.position is that they do. This isn't a position adopted by Peter Robinson
:16:41. > :16:45.or Martin McGuinness for that matter. These are positions adopted
:16:46. > :16:49.by the people that we represent. These are their views being
:16:50. > :16:54.represented. But you also have to lead. And I have offered that
:16:55. > :16:57.leadership. Difficult though it is, there are certain decisions that
:16:58. > :17:08.have to be taken. There are other people failing in leadership but
:17:09. > :17:11.it's not me. If you your thoughts on what the First Minister have to say,
:17:12. > :17:13.you can tweet us. We will hear the thoughts of
:17:14. > :17:14.you can tweet us. We will hear the in the programme. There has been
:17:15. > :17:17.peace without reconciliation, according to a new report which
:17:18. > :17:21.predicts trouble ahead if politicians don't stop managing the
:17:22. > :17:25.changing face of Belfast. That's one of the conclusions in the latest
:17:26. > :17:32.Peace Monitoring report. Martina Purdy has been examining some of its
:17:33. > :18:19.stock conclusions. -- stark conclusions.
:18:20. > :18:27.Belfast is a city in transition. It's also a divided city, divided by
:18:28. > :18:31.walls, divided even by this river. On the east bank you have a solidly
:18:32. > :18:37.Protestant unionist population. On the West, solidly nationalist and
:18:38. > :18:41.Catholic. But it's not a simple picture, as there are significant
:18:42. > :18:45.pockets of unionists across the north, west and south of the city.
:18:46. > :18:49.But the Catholic population is young, with numbers rising to 49%.
:18:50. > :18:55.The Protestant population is older and passing away and has dropped to
:18:56. > :18:58.42%. Belfast is at a tipping point, says this academic, who sees
:18:59. > :19:03.connection between the changing population and the row over the
:19:04. > :19:07.Union flag in the city. Dell fast changed. It changed from having a
:19:08. > :19:10.Protestant majority, which is what it is what it's always hard, two for
:19:11. > :19:15.the first time, the Protestant population being in a minority.
:19:16. > :19:22.Those figures were published in December 2012. They were published a
:19:23. > :19:26.week after the vote was taken in Belfast City Council. So it's not as
:19:27. > :19:29.if the people who came out to protest about the flag decision had
:19:30. > :19:36.read those figures and decided to come out and protest about them.
:19:37. > :19:39.Actually, sometimes people can act like human sensors. They pick up
:19:40. > :19:44.what's happening underneath their feet. They pick up the vibration,
:19:45. > :19:47.the earthquake that was happening. That earthquake is one of the themes
:19:48. > :19:53.of this academic's peace report. That earthquake is one of the themes
:19:54. > :19:59.describes young Protestant men, a quarter of them are jobless, as a
:20:00. > :20:03.seedbed for trouble, as they risk alienation and being drawn into a
:20:04. > :20:06.cultural conflict. But in north Belfast, a loyalist says he dislikes
:20:07. > :20:13.language like this, particularly words such as tipping point. I think
:20:14. > :20:16.that's dangerous language and over sympathising the problem by an
:20:17. > :20:21.academic. The problems are probably very similar. Youth unemployment,
:20:22. > :20:28.social issues, housing, regeneration problems. But at this protest camp
:20:29. > :20:32.in North Belfast there is a sense of cultural warfare. They've taken over
:20:33. > :20:37.our flag at City Hall, the demonisation of our culture will
:20:38. > :20:42.stop these are all things... It is basically similar to someone coming
:20:43. > :20:49.into your house, rearranging the furniture, it makes you feel very
:20:50. > :20:51.uncomfortable. While Catholics still suffer deprivation, Catholic schools
:20:52. > :20:57.are excelling, providing a route out of poverty. This problem was still
:20:58. > :21:01.going to bubble up because we've got inequality. We've got a section of
:21:02. > :21:07.our population, young Protestant males, who have no boots out of
:21:08. > :21:12.their poverty. And they experience it as inequality. The experience
:21:13. > :21:15.alienation. That will erupt. Both the academic and a loyalist agree
:21:16. > :21:20.there is a lack of vision and leadership coming from politicians
:21:21. > :21:22.at Stormont. Unionist politicians say this nationalist commentator are
:21:23. > :21:28.fighting a losing battle against change. It's been like King Canute.
:21:29. > :21:31.They are trying to force backed the nationalist tide and it has failed.
:21:32. > :21:33.All unionist politicians know the statistics quite well. They know
:21:34. > :21:38.exactly where it's heading. They statistics quite well. They know
:21:39. > :21:42.know the only outcome can be accommodation and reconciliation. As
:21:43. > :21:49.it points out in the report, there is peace but there's no attempt at
:21:50. > :21:53.whatsoever. Belfast is a colourful canvas for the artists. Cultural
:21:54. > :21:58.tensions between the Protestant loyal orders and Catholics are
:21:59. > :22:03.captured in the work of this nor best -- of Belfast artist, Jo
:22:04. > :22:06.McWilliams. But there's another picture from South Belfast artist
:22:07. > :22:11.Susan Hughes. Her exhibition has just opened at Stormont, called the
:22:12. > :22:17.quiet peacemakers. One of them says politicians alone can't bring
:22:18. > :22:21.peace, so what is missing? The acknowledgement of the peacemakers
:22:22. > :22:25.that exist and perhaps a connective nurse because of that. Maybe we need
:22:26. > :22:27.to get ourselves together and make sure we know what each other is
:22:28. > :22:31.doing. But that sure we know what each other is
:22:32. > :22:35.that comes from each other would make a big difference. That then
:22:36. > :22:43.makes us stronger to those in leadership. There are young people
:22:44. > :22:49.like these who are working to build bridges. They feel weighed down by
:22:50. > :22:53.their parents generation, a lack of support from politicians and
:22:54. > :22:56.negative language. Our young people are feeling like they are holding
:22:57. > :23:01.everybody else's past honest shoulders. They are feeling they are
:23:02. > :23:04.trying to move forward and be positive and trying to have a shared
:23:05. > :23:10.space and future, but there are certain things holding them back.
:23:11. > :23:16.What's your vision for the city? Just that a new light would shine on
:23:17. > :23:20.it. Martina Purdy on the latest Peace Monitoring report, which was
:23:21. > :23:21.commissioned by the Community Relations Council, whose
:23:22. > :23:28.commissioned by the Community Peter Osborne, is with me now. Young
:23:29. > :23:32.Protestant males in particular seem to feel unnerved by recent
:23:33. > :23:37.demographic changes in Belfast. What is the CRC doing to address that?
:23:38. > :23:41.There are two issues that spring to mind when I look at that report.
:23:42. > :23:44.First, the healing and reconciliation impulses very strong
:23:45. > :23:50.amongst many people in this community, young and old alike, from
:23:51. > :23:53.both sides as well. I see that when I go out and meet groups on the
:23:54. > :23:57.ground. Secondly, we are living in a city of minorities. That is
:23:58. > :24:02.demonstrated clearly in the 2011 Census. And we live in a region of
:24:03. > :24:07.minorities. It's important to recognise that because it could have
:24:08. > :24:10.a positive influence. Our politics and society and relationships very
:24:11. > :24:15.often have been dictated by a fear of domination from one side or the
:24:16. > :24:20.other. The fact of the matter is we are living in a region of
:24:21. > :24:24.minorities, and that might have a positive impact about how we work
:24:25. > :24:27.with each other. The report suggests the number of people wanting to live
:24:28. > :24:31.in mixed communities has fallen on previous years. That is a pretty
:24:32. > :24:35.terrible indictment on the work of the Community Relations Council in
:24:36. > :24:39.recent years. What have you been doing? For many years we've been
:24:40. > :24:44.supporting a lot of positive work on the ground across the community
:24:45. > :24:46.divide with people who are champions in their areas. What they would tell
:24:47. > :24:52.me is reaching political agreement is one thing, and a very substantial
:24:53. > :24:57.agreement, but are difficult, complex and really challenging work
:24:58. > :25:01.is peace building on the ground. The people who do that work on the
:25:02. > :25:05.ground, very often supported by the Community Relations Council, tell me
:25:06. > :25:09.they are prepared to take reasonable risks to build peace on the ground.
:25:10. > :25:13.They want to see politicians also take reasonable risks to sustain the
:25:14. > :25:19.political process. That's a challenge for everybody. But has
:25:20. > :25:21.that work paid off? We heard that working-class Protestant males in
:25:22. > :25:26.particular still feel alienated, they feel there is a cultural war
:25:27. > :25:29.being waged against them. They are not happy, they are reaching out for
:25:30. > :25:35.somebody to help them and there seems to be also a lack of political
:25:36. > :25:39.leadership. Sure, and we need to address those issues and take those
:25:40. > :25:43.issues seriously. I don't see the evidence of cultural war on the
:25:44. > :25:48.ground in terms of numbers of parades all the funding that goes
:25:49. > :25:52.into those organisations. Do you accept that is their perception? I
:25:53. > :25:56.accept that perception. The report makes it clear, a fantastic report
:25:57. > :26:04.for the third year in a row, if there is a perception that it needs
:26:05. > :26:05.addressing. Dialogue and understanding the relationships and
:26:06. > :26:08.building trust other things that need to happen to address those
:26:09. > :26:11.issues. Is it time for political leaders within unionism and loyalism
:26:12. > :26:17.to stop telling young Protestant they are losing out and that their
:26:18. > :26:20.culture is under attack? In terms of the education issues and achievement
:26:21. > :26:24.and the future in terms of young people, whether they be Protestant
:26:25. > :26:28.or Catholic from disadvantaged communities, we need to acknowledge
:26:29. > :26:31.and recognise there is a significant issue around and achievement. We
:26:32. > :26:36.need to do something about it quickly. We also need to acknowledge
:26:37. > :26:40.the need for greater investment in those schools that are working in
:26:41. > :26:43.areas where there is significant disadvantage. In England there is a
:26:44. > :26:48.Pupil Premium for those schools, recognising the additional work that
:26:49. > :26:51.is needed. And we also need to recognise there are significant,
:26:52. > :26:54.multifaceted issues within schooling and the school system, as well as
:26:55. > :26:58.outside the gates that need to be addressed in terms of communities,
:26:59. > :27:06.families and support for those young people. If you've got to join up the
:27:07. > :27:10.dots, to encourage politicians to join up the dots, what does the CRC
:27:11. > :27:14.recommend needs to be done now by government to make the community
:27:15. > :27:17.that we've identified, that this report identifies, as feeling
:27:18. > :27:22.alienated, to make it feel more valued and to seek its achievement
:27:23. > :27:26.levels increase? Elected representatives need to understand
:27:27. > :27:29.that squabbles at Stormont do undermine trust in institutions.
:27:30. > :27:34.People want to see the institutions working fairly, but they want to see
:27:35. > :27:36.them delivering results. It's interesting you just said that given
:27:37. > :27:45.what we've just interesting you just said that given
:27:46. > :27:47.Robinson is saying. I don't want to get into the detail of welfare
:27:48. > :27:50.reform, but people need to understand the impact of that in the
:27:51. > :27:54.community. In 1998, 70% of people voted in the assembly elections, it
:27:55. > :27:57.dropped in the last elections. Complacency and indifference is the
:27:58. > :28:01.enemy of the peace process and political processes. We need to
:28:02. > :28:05.address that. But we also need a strategy in government. We are
:28:06. > :28:10.looking at the shared future. Frankly, there is limited ambition
:28:11. > :28:14.at times. Where there is significant ambition, we need to have long-term
:28:15. > :28:19.commitment to make that happen. Adequate resources to make that
:28:20. > :28:24.happen, which I don't see in the medium term in years three, four,
:28:25. > :28:28.five, six and beyond. That needs to happen from government to achieve
:28:29. > :28:32.those sort of targets. We really do need to resource and take those
:28:33. > :28:34.targets seriously. We will leave it there. An interesting insight into
:28:35. > :28:38.where we are there. An interesting insight into
:28:39. > :28:43.for interesting reading. Peter Osborne, thank you for joining us.
:28:44. > :28:51.Let's find out what our commentators have to say about what they've heard
:28:52. > :28:56.this evening. Let's talk about Peter Robinson's attack on Sinn Fein's
:28:57. > :29:00.position on welfare reform. Why tonight? The most significant thing
:29:01. > :29:06.was his acknowledgement of the importance in our politics now. I
:29:07. > :29:09.wonder if Peter Robinson wasn't trying to send a message to the
:29:10. > :29:14.southern Sinn Fein constituency himself, about what it means to have
:29:15. > :29:17.Sinn Fein in government and their attempts to ride two horses at the
:29:18. > :29:23.same time. Both parties are over emphasising the attention of the
:29:24. > :29:25.southern electorate. But there is clearly a difficulty for Sinn Fein.
:29:26. > :29:31.Many commentators have said it, in clearly a difficulty for Sinn Fein.
:29:32. > :29:35.government, in Northern Ireland, in opposition in the Republic. But to
:29:36. > :29:39.an extent it's a problem Sinn Fein has caused for itself. The tale of
:29:40. > :29:44.these mythical cuts, which we have never experienced. And it gets
:29:45. > :29:48.criticised by its Labour party rivals in particular in the south or
:29:49. > :29:54.incrementing these cuts that don't actually exist. Cathy, Alex Maskey
:29:55. > :29:59.is already disputing Peter Robinson's figures on Twitter. Sinn
:30:00. > :30:02.Fein is unhappy with what Peter Robinson has said. Alex Maskey says,
:30:03. > :30:06.the First Minister would be better standing up to the Tory cuts rather
:30:07. > :30:11.than trying to explain away what he describes as an assault on the poor,
:30:12. > :30:15.disabled and unemployed. I'm sure is Sinn Fein will be unhappy tonight,
:30:16. > :30:18.but a lot of academics, community and voluntary sector organisations
:30:19. > :30:20.that have also been arguing about the impact of these cuts in Northern
:30:21. > :30:26.Ireland will also be really the impact of these cuts in Northern
:30:27. > :30:28.There was an element of scaremongering if you don't agree,
:30:29. > :30:33.here is where the cuts will fall hardest. I don't think that was
:30:34. > :30:37.particularly helpful. Following on from last week's interview with
:30:38. > :30:41.Sammy and Alex and then this tonight, what we need now is some
:30:42. > :30:45.sort of drastic intervention by Westminster because we are going
:30:46. > :30:49.nowhere fast with this tit-for-tat, back and forward disagreement about
:30:50. > :30:54.who agreed to what and so on. The bottom line is this. We don't have a
:30:55. > :30:58.la cart devolution. They can't pick and choose which bits of devolution
:30:59. > :31:04.they like best. And discard those that are unpalatable or leave a bad
:31:05. > :31:08.taste in their mouths. The First Minister outlined a scenario whereby
:31:09. > :31:12.certain fiscal powers could be handed back. That's a non-runner as
:31:13. > :31:13.far as you are concerned? Practically, without legislation
:31:14. > :31:18.being enacted in Practically, without legislation
:31:19. > :31:25.that. The DUP can't do that on its own. That is Peter Robinson
:31:26. > :31:30.conjuring up a scenario. It's a doomsday scenario. It runs contrary
:31:31. > :31:35.to the ethos of what devolution was supposed to deliver, which was local
:31:36. > :31:41.responsibility for local issues. Is the keyword to understanding all of
:31:42. > :31:45.this elections? I still believe so. There are elections in the south to
:31:46. > :31:49.get out of the way as well, then perhaps things would be expected to
:31:50. > :31:54.move on. More pressingly, we've got elections here in six weeks, too.
:31:55. > :31:57.Daily I'm starting to believe that Peter Robinson believes this is a
:31:58. > :32:01.permanent blockage, due to the importance of the South to Sinn
:32:02. > :32:04.Fein. Perhaps this is something which could drag on after the
:32:05. > :32:07.summer. I don't think anybody watching tonight who's not a
:32:08. > :32:10.traditional DUP watching tonight who's not a
:32:11. > :32:12.supporter of Peter Robinson will be endeared by the comments made
:32:13. > :32:19.tonight, because some of them were very disparaging and mean. There was
:32:20. > :32:24.a mean streak to some of it. Let's talk about the economic illiteracy.
:32:25. > :32:29.Let me experience -- explain it in clear terms. That didn't come across
:32:30. > :32:34.very well. He's obviously angry and frustrated. I thought he sounded
:32:35. > :32:38.plausible. He certainly believes that Sinn Fein has prioritised the
:32:39. > :32:44.South over everything. What about Gerry Adams' comments about that
:32:45. > :32:49.negative influence up at Stormont? Gayle anyone you speak to about
:32:50. > :32:52.Stormont politics says you can't put a paper between Martin McGuinness
:32:53. > :32:57.and Gerry Adams. They might have done this nice cop, nasty cop
:32:58. > :32:58.routine on Peter Robinson, but I think that's just Peter Robinson
:32:59. > :33:04.making a bit of trouble. think that's just Peter Robinson
:33:05. > :33:08.merry before the election. A quick word about demographic changes in
:33:09. > :33:14.Belfast. It requires an adjustment in the thinking of a lot of people.
:33:15. > :33:19.It does. The concern is around young males, young Protestant males in the
:33:20. > :33:21.city and that under achievement. It's not just educational
:33:22. > :33:25.underachievement. It's that feeling of loss and not having something to
:33:26. > :33:31.aspire to and live to. That's the big problem I think our politicians
:33:32. > :33:34.will have to address. If it were me and I was a Unionist politician
:33:35. > :33:38.going door-to-door and seeking votes, I'd be concerned that was a
:33:39. > :33:44.question I'd be asked by a voter, what are you doing for my son? The
:33:45. > :33:47.fact is that this earthquake, which you would have expected to be very
:33:48. > :33:53.serious, hasn't really been a fiasco. It hasn't sent the city up
:33:54. > :33:58.in flames. It's fascinating stuff. Happy birthday to you. Looking very
:33:59. > :34:03.glamorous because she's going out on the town. That's it from us this
:34:04. > :34:05.week. Join me on Sunday at 1130 a.m. On BBC One.