:00:00. > :00:27.Tonight: Pomp and ceremony, white tie and tails, and toasts to the
:00:28. > :00:31.Queen. What does Sinn Fein hope to gain from its participation in the
:00:32. > :00:40.state visit of President Higgins to London?
:00:41. > :00:45.He's paid official of the British government essentially. What is
:00:46. > :00:48.stopping him going into Westminster. The Secretary of State tells us
:00:49. > :00:51.there's no need to intervene in the political stand-off here and
:00:52. > :00:55.condemns a former Tory Party chairman for his views on Martin
:00:56. > :01:00.McGuinness. I recognise that Lord Tebbit himself
:01:01. > :01:06.has suffered very grievously at the hands of terrorists but nothing can
:01:07. > :01:09.justify calling on people to commit murder.
:01:10. > :01:11.Plus live from London we talk to the Health Minister, Edwin Poots, about
:01:12. > :01:15.managing continuing crises in the health service. With plenty to say
:01:16. > :01:18.on all of that I'm joined by commentators Cathy Gormley-Heenan
:01:19. > :01:26.and Newton Emerson. And you can, of course, join the debate on Twitter -
:01:27. > :01:30.that's @BBCtheview. President Michael D Higgins' state
:01:31. > :01:36.visit to the UK is coming to a close in London tonight. The Queen and the
:01:37. > :01:39.President hosted a Northern Ireland-themed reception at Windsor
:01:40. > :01:42.earlier this evening and now the Royal Albert Hall is packed for an
:01:43. > :01:44.event celebrating Ireland's musical heritage. Among the guests at both
:01:45. > :01:48.were MLAs and Executive Ministers from all parties as well as
:01:49. > :01:53.Secretary of State, Theresa Villiers. When she came into our
:01:54. > :02:01.Westminster studio earlier, I began by asking for her verdict on
:02:02. > :02:07.Presidential visit. I think it has been a success. It
:02:08. > :02:13.has been a great opportunity to celebrate the transformation in the
:02:14. > :02:16.relationship between the UK and Ireland. Relations have never been
:02:17. > :02:21.better and stronger and this was also a great chance to celebrate the
:02:22. > :02:24.contribution that Irish men and women have made an life in Britain
:02:25. > :02:29.over many centuries. The think it has helped to
:02:30. > :02:34.recalibrate the relationship? I think it reaffirms the strong
:02:35. > :02:38.partnership on all sorts of matters. I work closely with counterparts in
:02:39. > :02:46.Dublin and Northern Ireland on mutual interest but there is also a
:02:47. > :02:55.focus on boosting our economies. We are huge markets for each other and
:02:56. > :03:03.this -- face the same challenges. Were you personally surprised at my
:03:04. > :03:06.McGuinness' decision to attend and toast the Queen?
:03:07. > :03:12.I certainly hoped that the Sinn Fein decision would be that the Deputy
:03:13. > :03:16.First Minister would do that so when the decision came out I wasn't
:03:17. > :03:22.hugely surprised. I welcomed that step forward by Sinn Fein.
:03:23. > :03:25.There are clearly some victims that are very unhappy that the Deputy
:03:26. > :03:30.First Minister was on the guest list. Can you understand that?
:03:31. > :03:34.I can understand the concerns felt by victims who have suffered at
:03:35. > :03:36.I can understand the concerns felt hands of terrorists but I believe
:03:37. > :03:42.that the Deputy First Minister's presence at Windsor was another
:03:43. > :03:49.example of reconciliation. There have been many difficult decisions
:03:50. > :03:56.to deliver the political settlement but it has provided tremendous
:03:57. > :04:00.benefits to Northern Ireland even though many of the decisions have
:04:01. > :04:05.been difficult. But reconciliation is crucial in terms of maintaining
:04:06. > :04:10.political stability and underpinning the success of the peace process.
:04:11. > :04:14.Were you surprised by the comments of Lord Tebbit, a member of the
:04:15. > :04:21.Conservative Party and Tory grandees. He is quoted as saying
:04:22. > :04:24.there is always the possibility that a member of the Real IRA will be
:04:25. > :04:28.there is always the possibility that outraged that her meeting the Queen
:04:29. > :04:34.that he will be shot in the back and we can but hope. Sinn Fein has said
:04:35. > :04:40.the comments are outrageous, do you agree?
:04:41. > :04:43.I'm afraid I do. I recognise that Lord Tebbit has suffered very
:04:44. > :04:51.grievously at the hands of terrorists but nothing can justify
:04:52. > :04:58.calling on someone to be murdered. Should he be sanctioned?
:04:59. > :05:04.Lord Tebbit as an individual who speaks his mind. It is not for me to
:05:05. > :05:08.see what sanctions should or should not be applied but I want to make
:05:09. > :05:14.clear that I think those comments were unacceptable. It is still a
:05:15. > :05:19.matter of great sadness and regret that the rates are maids against
:05:20. > :05:25.elected representatives in Northern Ireland saw it as highly dangerous
:05:26. > :05:29.for Lord Tebbit is to make those comments.
:05:30. > :05:31.What would you say are the implications of this visit for
:05:32. > :05:37.political relations on these islands? It seems the relationship
:05:38. > :05:41.between Dublin and London is excellent and Dublin and Belfast is
:05:42. > :05:45.very good but the working relationship between the parties in
:05:46. > :05:50.Northern Ireland leaves a lot to be desired in the eyes of many people
:05:51. > :05:53.on a series of important issues. Should the two governments not be
:05:54. > :05:59.offering to step in and break the deadlock on thing is like flags,
:06:00. > :06:04.parades and the past? The two governments work closely
:06:05. > :06:09.together on these issues and we will continue to engage closely with all
:06:10. > :06:12.the Northern Ireland political parties on flags, parades and past
:06:13. > :06:15.the Northern Ireland political but also on matters like national
:06:16. > :06:21.reform and the National Crime Agency.
:06:22. > :06:24.Peter Robinson said if parties here are not competent to make decisions
:06:25. > :06:29.on things like welfare reform, perhaps that authorities should be
:06:30. > :06:33.given back to you to make those decisions and Westminster. Surely
:06:34. > :06:37.the same thing applies to things like flags, parades and the past. If
:06:38. > :06:41.they are not competent to meet decisions about such big issues, you
:06:42. > :06:48.are to do more than just encourage them, maybe you are to make the
:06:49. > :06:57.decisions for them. We can't just rewrites the
:06:58. > :07:02.devolution settlement. We respect the devolution settlement and would
:07:03. > :07:10.only seek to amend out if there was broad cross-party and cross communal
:07:11. > :07:15.support. I do not see that support for adaptations or changes to the
:07:16. > :07:19.devolution settlement. For an agreement to stick on flags, parades
:07:20. > :07:24.and the past, it needs to come from Northern Irish political leadership.
:07:25. > :07:33.They have fixed more difficult problems in the past, I think they
:07:34. > :07:38.are capable of fixing this problem. They have expressed to me their
:07:39. > :07:47.commitments to doing this. There has been another significant
:07:48. > :07:53.development. How do you respond to the claim that well Sinn Fein were
:07:54. > :08:00.negotiating the Belfast Agreement, a senior
:08:01. > :08:04.guns from Florida? These are matters that need to be
:08:05. > :08:11.investigated. I haven't got comments on that at the moment but it is very
:08:12. > :08:15.important that we continue to investigate claims that have been
:08:16. > :08:19.made. The claim has also been made that
:08:20. > :08:23.the British and American governments sought to play down the issue before
:08:24. > :08:30.it came to court in Florida. Does that surprise you?
:08:31. > :08:36.Matters relating to the previous government are for them to answer
:08:37. > :08:40.to. It is not for this government to take responsibility for the actions
:08:41. > :08:45.of the previous government. No, but you have been critical of
:08:46. > :08:50.the previous administration. Unionists have said the
:08:51. > :08:57.the previous administration. government hasty to accept
:08:58. > :09:06.Republicans at their words no matter what. Do you share those concerns?
:09:07. > :09:08.There are concerns about the way the previous government operated and
:09:09. > :09:12.where appropriate they need to be investigated but it is really for
:09:13. > :09:16.the people involved at the time to justify their actions.
:09:17. > :09:18.But do you accept that there are serious questions that need to be
:09:19. > :09:24.answered? Yes, I do.
:09:25. > :09:29.What is your prognosis as we move forward to the elections? People
:09:30. > :09:33.feel there will be no serious business done in the run-up to the
:09:34. > :09:38.elections in May. Do you think that is probably right?
:09:39. > :09:43.I certainly hope it is not right. The conversations I have been having
:09:44. > :09:47.I certainly hope it is not right. recently makes me believe that they
:09:48. > :09:52.are going to carry on working. The First Minister in particular was
:09:53. > :10:03.clear that he thought the meeting is on flags, parades and past should
:10:04. > :10:10.continue over the election period. And it is important to continue to
:10:11. > :10:14.try and make progress on things like the National Crime Agency. I was
:10:15. > :10:20.discussing this with the SDLP recently. The reality is the current
:10:21. > :10:25.situation means that people in Northern Ireland don't have the same
:10:26. > :10:30.protection from organised crime that people in Great Britain do. That's
:10:31. > :10:34.it problem and we need to keep a focus on these issues even during
:10:35. > :10:46.Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you.
:10:47. > :10:49.As this week's Irish Presidential visit draws to an end, the big
:10:50. > :10:52.headline remains the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness'
:10:53. > :10:55.attendance at the state banquet in Windsor Castle and his participation
:10:56. > :10:59.in the loyal toast to the Queen. He said being there was the right thing
:11:00. > :11:02.to do but why? Was it an unapologetic act of bridge-building
:11:03. > :11:08.or a more calculated political move? Stephen Walker has had his ear to
:11:09. > :11:12.the ground. This was about marking new times. It
:11:13. > :11:17.changed relationship after years of conflict. But, reading the papers,
:11:18. > :11:23.you could be forgiven for thinking this was all about Martin
:11:24. > :11:28.McGuinness. Once seen as an enemy of the state, now a guest of the state.
:11:29. > :11:32.During his time as an MP, he often came here but he never sat on the
:11:33. > :11:36.green benches of the House of Commons or uttered the author of
:11:37. > :11:39.allegiance. However this week he was at the heart of the British
:11:40. > :11:46.establishment. Although he has met the Queen before, the the former IRA
:11:47. > :11:51.commander dining at Windsor Castle was always going to create
:11:52. > :11:55.headlines. So what are we got to meet all this week? Is it simply
:11:56. > :12:02.another lying in the unfolding story of the peace process will it have
:12:03. > :12:11.wider repercussions? In Sinn Fein's eyes, England 2014 is a different
:12:12. > :12:15.place to Ireland in 2011. Back then, they snubbed the head of state but
:12:16. > :12:19.now they are rubbing shoulders with them.
:12:20. > :12:21.They think things through, they are serious politicians and it
:12:22. > :12:26.They think things through, they are have given this a lot of thought.
:12:27. > :12:31.They know they made a terrible error when the Queen came to Northern
:12:32. > :12:35.Ireland because they shunned the visit and they have learned a lot
:12:36. > :12:40.from that. They have learned that you don't diss the Queen.
:12:41. > :12:47.How Sinn Fein learned lessons from the past?
:12:48. > :12:51.In 2011, the majority of people in the Republic thought they were on
:12:52. > :12:56.the wrong side. He called it wrong. It had no opportunity to call it
:12:57. > :13:02.wrong in 2014 if they were to have a political future in the Republic,
:13:03. > :13:06.not that everything would be taken through the prism of Sinn Fein's
:13:07. > :13:14.attitude to royalty. But the public, to misquote David Cameron's
:13:15. > :13:20.words in Europe, they do not want to see Sinn Fein for banging on about
:13:21. > :13:25.Northern Ireland. Was the decision to come to Windsor
:13:26. > :13:31.Castle motivated by opinion in the Republic?
:13:32. > :13:36.He has made a journey, unlike other Sinn Fein figures and figures on the
:13:37. > :13:44.other side. But also he would be looking at the electoral Paul's and
:13:45. > :13:46.the public views. He would want to get onside with public opinion on
:13:47. > :13:53.that. Martin McGuinness says his decision
:13:54. > :13:58.to attend the banquet has nothing to do with electoral politics.
:13:59. > :14:01.Absolutely not. It is an attempt to articulate to people how serious we
:14:02. > :14:10.in Sinn Fein take resolution and reconciliation.
:14:11. > :14:16.Reconciliation is the next big stage of the peace process which requires
:14:17. > :14:23.to be embraced by all of us. In recent years, history has taught
:14:24. > :14:41.us that events once seen any vaginal -- once seen unimaginable are now
:14:42. > :14:45.possible. So what is next? Remember what they would not do at the
:14:46. > :14:53.beginning is my they have a way of doing what suits and having the just
:14:54. > :14:58.a -- justification for it. Martin McGuinness serves the Queen, he is a
:14:59. > :15:03.paid official of the British Government, essentially. He toasts
:15:04. > :15:08.the Queen in white tie and tails, what stops him going into
:15:09. > :15:12.Westminster? Sinn Fein MPs were in the Palace of Westminster listening
:15:13. > :15:18.to President Higgins. The parties said they had no plans to take their
:15:19. > :15:23.seats. I was a strong advocate of taking seats in Leicester house and
:15:24. > :15:30.storm aunt. I am not an advocate of taking seats in Westminster. Because
:15:31. > :15:38.that is not the next big step. The next big step in our process is to
:15:39. > :15:44.get people to recognise that this is not just a peace process. This is a
:15:45. > :15:50.change process, also. Tomorrow the first state visit by an Irish
:15:51. > :15:52.president to the UK comes to an end. Rich in symbolism, loaded
:15:53. > :15:56.president to the UK comes to an end. history, it brings to a close five
:15:57. > :15:59.days that word decades in the making.
:16:00. > :16:06.Stephen Walker reporting from London.
:16:07. > :16:08.After allegations of inadequate care in the Belfast and Northern Health
:16:09. > :16:12.Trusts and claims of unacceptable pressures on front line A staff,
:16:13. > :16:15.what can be done to resuscitate our health service? We'll hear from the
:16:16. > :16:20.Health Minister, Edwin Poots, in a moment. First, here's a reminder of
:16:21. > :16:25.some of the pressing issues. In October the BBC reveals the
:16:26. > :16:28.College of emergency medicine report that described the EDS is being
:16:29. > :16:32.non-sustainable and there were breached waiting time targets, too
:16:33. > :16:38.few senior staff and a major incident was called in January. Then
:16:39. > :16:39.use that waiting times have possibly contributed in the deaths of five
:16:40. > :16:45.patients. I have no doubt that contributed in the deaths of five
:16:46. > :16:49.revelations have dented the reputation of the health service and
:16:50. > :16:58.cause distress the patients and relatives who have been affected.
:16:59. > :17:04.There are hundreds of people here who have not been attended to. I saw
:17:05. > :17:14.elderly people left on trolleys for 78 hours. I wish our politicians and
:17:15. > :17:17.media would be more mature or in how they assess things. Three hours
:17:18. > :17:25.after an emergency plan was initiated, things were back to
:17:26. > :17:28.normal. The health Minister Edwin Poots has ordered a review of
:17:29. > :17:35.services at the Royal Victoria Hospital. I support Edwin and
:17:36. > :17:43.recognise the difficult task. We are trying to turn the crisis around by
:17:44. > :17:46.ensuring people are listing. The delegates acknowledged this was
:17:47. > :17:53.progress but some of them said there had been another talking and there
:17:54. > :17:59.is now time action. Health Minister Edwin Poots joins me
:18:00. > :18:02.from the Westminster studio after attending the musical extravaganza
:18:03. > :18:08.at the Royal Albert Hall. We will speak about the presidential visit
:18:09. > :18:15.later, but I want to start with the challenges you face in health. A
:18:16. > :18:19.survey of staff at the Royal quotes a member of staff saying she felt
:18:20. > :18:25.like running away because of intense pressure. Have you felt like that? I
:18:26. > :18:30.have no intention of running away. The pressure is intense. We have a
:18:31. > :18:35.job to do. It is a matter for us to get on with the job and deal with
:18:36. > :18:40.blooms that come our way. And ensure we do our best to deliver good
:18:41. > :18:47.quality health care. Are you on top of that brief? We have made massive
:18:48. > :18:55.strides in terms of health care in the past three years. In that
:18:56. > :19:00.period, I have had to make savings of ?419 million. At the same time we
:19:01. > :19:07.have improved cancer care and the outcomes of cardiac arrest and the
:19:08. > :19:14.outcomes the strokes, introduced new drugs, shorten the time scale for
:19:15. > :19:18.waiting for biological drugs for people with arthritis. We are
:19:19. > :19:25.building a children's hospital and got is that through the executive.
:19:26. > :19:29.And a new MRI scanner. These are hugely positive things, a
:19:30. > :19:35.demonstration of moving forward. The health service problems are often
:19:36. > :19:40.because we are victims of our own success with people living longer.
:19:41. > :19:44.People have complex conditions and many will turn up at hospital
:19:45. > :19:50.requiring a lot of staff time and we have to find the best way of dealing
:19:51. > :19:56.with that. That is not a Northern Ireland problem alone, it is felt
:19:57. > :20:02.across the UK and Europe. You say you have made significant strides"
:20:03. > :20:07.examples. But it seems like, on a daily basis, we wake up and turn on
:20:08. > :20:13.the radio and hear about the latest crisis to hit the health service.
:20:14. > :20:19.This week you drafted in the expertise of Sir Liam Donaldson to
:20:20. > :20:25.help you out and help you to to get an overview of what needs to be
:20:26. > :20:30.done. One way of reading that is being as are out of control and you
:20:31. > :20:34.need the big hitter to bail you out. Another way of reading it is a
:20:35. > :20:42.demonstration of how serious we are of delivering high quality health
:20:43. > :20:45.care. The fact the media reports on this is because we are open and
:20:46. > :20:50.transparent about it. Many things have happened over the course of
:20:51. > :20:57.health care that have not been reported. All of the material
:20:58. > :21:02.produced about Northern trust for example over the course of the past
:21:03. > :21:06.few weeks has been because we identified there had been failings
:21:07. > :21:09.and we told the public the failings happened. It gives
:21:10. > :21:14.and we told the public the failings for the media to scrutinise that,
:21:15. > :21:18.which is fair enough. Because we are open and transparent, there is the
:21:19. > :21:23.opportunity for people to look at these things. The spotlight is
:21:24. > :21:28.almost always cast on negative aspects, as opposed to the positive
:21:29. > :21:34.things happening. I am sure that is welcomed by members of the public
:21:35. > :21:37.and media, the openness. I want to stay with Professor Sir Liam
:21:38. > :21:42.Donaldson. A way of reading that is to suggest you need him because this
:21:43. > :21:46.will give the operational overview for you, because you do not have
:21:47. > :21:52.confidence in your own senior officials, is that right? It is
:21:53. > :21:58.not. We have three pillars. First of all we having gauged the regulator,
:21:59. > :22:03.-- engaged. They will bring in key all we having gauged the regulator,
:22:04. > :22:07.specialists. They will look at how things are performing within the
:22:08. > :22:14.emergency departments and across hospitals and give advice as to how
:22:15. > :22:18.they see they can be improved. We are engaging this draft through the
:22:19. > :22:22.College of urgency medicine, which will meet in 60 days to see what
:22:23. > :22:28.progress has been made and to ensure the progress will be made. We
:22:29. > :22:33.brought in Sir Liam Donaldson who has specific expertise, recognised
:22:34. > :22:37.worldwide. Those three pillars should give us the strength to move
:22:38. > :22:41.forward and continue to improve health care. And to ensure we have
:22:42. > :22:48.better outcomes next winter, when we hit more peaks. One of the experts
:22:49. > :22:52.from England who came to the emergency medicine summit was
:22:53. > :22:55.reported as saying, we have a crisis in emergency medicine. You accept
:22:56. > :23:00.reported as saying, we have a crisis that? He indicates there is a crisis
:23:01. > :23:07.across the United Kingdom and indicates that in some of the trust
:23:08. > :23:11.areas. They are only able to .16% of the required trainee doctors, less
:23:12. > :23:15.than we have in Northern Ireland. I recognise we have a in getting the
:23:16. > :23:22.appropriate number of doctors which has led to circumstances where we
:23:23. > :23:27.have had to reduce hours as a consequence of not having clinicians
:23:28. > :23:30.available. There are major issues. There have been doctors lost to
:23:31. > :23:34.Australia. I have been in correspondence with two reason may
:23:35. > :23:42.about these issues and the ability to bring in doctors from other
:23:43. > :23:45.countries -- Theresa May. To ensure we can engage as many as possible
:23:46. > :23:48.and not to allow European Union we can engage as many as possible
:23:49. > :23:53.rules to block that. I do not think any rules should stump the safety of
:23:54. > :23:59.people who are living in the United Kingdom. Forgive me for saying, it
:24:00. > :24:03.sounds like you have changed your tune. You talk about the importance
:24:04. > :24:09.of transparency. You have talked about reviews and the three pillars
:24:10. > :24:14.approach you have introduced. Earlier this year, not many weeks
:24:15. > :24:18.ago, you still argued there was not a major problem at the Royal, what
:24:19. > :24:24.has changed your mind? You blamed the media for overemphasising that
:24:25. > :24:30.incident on the floor of the assembly. I do not think I'm ever
:24:31. > :24:35.said there was no problem in the Royal Victoria Hospital. I knowledge
:24:36. > :24:41.there were problems and it was hugely difficult. You said it was
:24:42. > :24:45.there were problems and it was nonevent. On the particular evening
:24:46. > :24:49.we had many people coming in, technicians, and they resolved the
:24:50. > :24:55.problem within three hours, which was a good piece of work carried
:24:56. > :24:59.out. We have ongoing problems in the Royal Victoria Hospital emergency
:25:00. > :25:04.department. It was planned the new hospital would be open more quickly.
:25:05. > :25:10.It ran into difficulties, because of the building work. We should be
:25:11. > :25:15.moving into that facility, which would ease things if that was the
:25:16. > :25:22.case. We have problems. I would be the first to identify that. It is
:25:23. > :25:26.clear difficult decisions have to be taken and you have said that on the
:25:27. > :25:28.record. Are you prepared to make hard choices and to consider things
:25:29. > :25:37.that people might find unpalatable, things that might be politically
:25:38. > :25:42.difficult to deliver? I am prepared to make difficult decisions and I
:25:43. > :25:48.have from the outset. Some decisions I would be prepared to make would
:25:49. > :25:53.have two receive executive support and consequently they are not
:25:54. > :25:58.decisions I can take alone. In terms of taking difficult decisions, that
:25:59. > :26:03.is something all of us, all of the politicians, all five parties, need
:26:04. > :26:07.to step up to the mark. We need to indicate to people that if we make a
:26:08. > :26:12.difficult decision, if it is unpalatable at the time, it is for
:26:13. > :26:16.the greater good and to explain why. It remains to be seen whether the
:26:17. > :26:23.executive are prepared to make those decisions. Are you prepared to raise
:26:24. > :26:26.the possibility of reintroducing prescription charges, charging
:26:27. > :26:29.the possibility of reintroducing people for domiciliary care, because
:26:30. > :26:36.it is the only part of the UK we do not pay for it, levying a charge for
:26:37. > :26:42.attending emergency departments? I already have raised with the First
:26:43. > :26:47.Minister and Deputy First Minister the reintroduction of prescription
:26:48. > :26:50.charges. The truth is many of us who receive free prescriptions can
:26:51. > :26:56.afford them. At the same time there are many people who require drugs
:26:57. > :27:03.and specialist drugs and we can not afford to buy them. I would like it
:27:04. > :27:08.that we follow a socialist line and those who can afford to pay would be
:27:09. > :27:11.paying for prescriptions and those who really need the benefit of free
:27:12. > :27:14.prescriptions to buy expensive drugs would receive the benefit and others
:27:15. > :27:21.seem resistant to that idea. We look would receive the benefit and others
:27:22. > :27:26.at domiciliary care. We spend almost one quarter of a billion each year
:27:27. > :27:30.on that. If we were anywhere else in the United Kingdom, we would recoup
:27:31. > :27:35.40 million because there would be a charge, the same as with nursing
:27:36. > :27:40.homes but that is not the case in Northern Ireland. People benefit
:27:41. > :27:45.from free domiciliary care will stop I cannot let you go without asking
:27:46. > :27:51.you about the Windsor Castle reception. You were there and many
:27:52. > :27:57.colleagues. Including representatives of Sinn Fein. How
:27:58. > :28:02.was it? It was fascinating. I deliberately stayed close to the end
:28:03. > :28:06.of the queue and watched as Sinn Fein MPs and ministers queued up for
:28:07. > :28:08.the opportunity to meet Her Majesty The Queen. I thought to myself,
:28:09. > :28:14.the opportunity to meet Her Majesty was the 30 years of the troubles
:28:15. > :28:19.about? The bloodshed and mayhem and violence, if that is what it has
:28:20. > :28:24.come to? The truth is, was any anger achieved through 30 years of
:28:25. > :28:28.violence that would not have been achieved by democracy? I think the
:28:29. > :28:32.answer to that is that nothing was achieved as a result of the
:28:33. > :28:37.troubles. Sinn Fein have come a long way in recognising that. You were
:28:38. > :28:42.glad to see them there and it helps to bring the process forward? It is
:28:43. > :28:45.the right thing to do. It was the wrong thing to do, to engage in
:28:46. > :28:53.murder and terrorism. It would be good for them to properly
:28:54. > :29:09.acknowledge that. Thank you very much indeed. Let us talk about that
:29:10. > :29:18.presidential visit. I thought that I did not agree with
:29:19. > :29:22.this theory that they are going to send a message to the Southern
:29:23. > :29:29.Electric. It is just not plausible to me. It couldn't have possibly
:29:30. > :29:34.done him any damage if he hadn't have attended.
:29:35. > :29:39.So he is playing to the northern Galilee?
:29:40. > :29:45.Yes, no one would remember if he had been to a banquet. The only
:29:46. > :29:50.plausible reason for him to do this is to send a message to the Unionist
:29:51. > :29:59.community. Playing to northern Unionists?
:30:00. > :30:02.Possibly. This was a form of elastic band leadership were you strive to
:30:03. > :30:08.stretch your own constituents a little bit, creating some tension
:30:09. > :30:17.that there will be debate internally but not stretching it to finality
:30:18. > :30:33.dislocate yourself from your own constituency. They were out of step
:30:34. > :30:38.with the Queens visit to Ireland in 2011 and they wanted to change that.
:30:39. > :30:41.Were you surprised that the London papers in particular seemed to be
:30:42. > :30:46.infatuated with Martin McGuinness' visit. You would've thought it was a
:30:47. > :30:53.state visit visit. You would've thought it was a
:30:54. > :31:12.rather than President Higgins. What struck me was how backward it
:31:13. > :31:17.seemed from a peace process basis. It seems they are still stuck in a
:31:18. > :31:24.1980s mindset that we have moved on from. The kind of thing where you
:31:25. > :31:37.routinely heard about shifting terrorists. -- shooting terrorists.
:31:38. > :31:40.I do think more than anything that this visit and Martin McGuinness'
:31:41. > :31:46.but as a patient in this this visit and Martin McGuinness'
:31:47. > :31:53.to be taken at face value. It is another step in the peace process.
:31:54. > :32:00.The symbolism of handshakes has been recorded since 1984. That engagement
:32:01. > :32:07.between Gerry Adams and Ken Maginnis in America of all places was the
:32:08. > :32:11.first part of a very long choreographed process in which
:32:12. > :32:14.handshakes and meetings and all of these firsts have been critically
:32:15. > :32:28.important to raise confidence and that sense of moving on for people.
:32:29. > :32:36.or manifesto for the health system. or manifesto for the health system.
:32:37. > :32:41.Pity the man to fix it? The buck stops with him but I do
:32:42. > :32:48.think he needs more understanding. He is managing a programme that is
:32:49. > :32:50.15 years in the making. It is clinically and economically the
:32:51. > :32:56.right thing to do to concentrate services on large hospitals. He has
:32:57. > :33:01.been prepared to put constituency interests aside. I think he is
:33:02. > :33:10.dealing with management problems that that that level of minister
:33:11. > :33:17.shouldn't have to deal with. A good performance by him?
:33:18. > :33:21.I think so. We need to look into social care however.
:33:22. > :33:25.That's it from The View for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at
:33:26. > :33:35.the later time of 3:05pm on BBC One.