:00:00. > :00:25.Tonight - boom and bust. The economy's on the up, but huge cuts
:00:26. > :00:31.are coming down the track with millions set to be lost from
:00:32. > :00:33.departmental budgets. I'll be asking the Finance Minister, Simon
:00:34. > :00:36.Hamilton, and the Education Minister, John O'Dowd, if we're
:00:37. > :00:39.heading for a political bust-up over our new budget? Also tonight - Tough
:00:40. > :00:42.competition our new budget? Also tonight - Tough
:00:43. > :00:50.but who'll be the winners and losers as farmer takes on farmer for a
:00:51. > :00:56.share of the European funding pot? There is a lot of protectionism of
:00:57. > :01:03.the status quo. People are dependent on that for the survival of the
:01:04. > :01:05.business. We'll hear what our European candidates, Martina
:01:06. > :01:10.Anderson and Diane Dodds, have to say about that and other Euro issues
:01:11. > :01:12.with just one week to go to polling day. And joining me in Commentators'
:01:13. > :01:16.Corner with their thoughts on another busy political week are
:01:17. > :01:18.Professors Heenan and Wilford. And you can, of course, join the debate
:01:19. > :01:25.on Twitter - that's @BBCtheview. When next week's elections are over
:01:26. > :01:29.and the political focus shifts back onto the Executive, the main item on
:01:30. > :01:31.the agenda will be getting a new budget signed off. That doesn't look
:01:32. > :01:35.like it'll be an easy task, though, budget signed off. That doesn't look
:01:36. > :01:37.involving, as it will, major cutbacks in
:01:38. > :01:38.involving, as it will, major because of the politicians' failure
:01:39. > :01:40.involving, as it will, major to agree how to deal with
:01:41. > :01:46.Westminster's welfare reform programme. The Finance
:01:47. > :01:48.Westminster's welfare reform Simon Hamilton, has been finalising
:01:49. > :01:50.the figures involved and he joins me, along with the Education
:01:51. > :01:53.Minister, John O'Dowd. Simon Hamilton - How much does your
:01:54. > :02:01.proposed budget reduce overall spending by? We are already facing a
:02:02. > :02:04.public spending environments moving forward. That is clear when you
:02:05. > :02:10.listen to the Chancellor and the recent budget, and recent figures
:02:11. > :02:16.that the Treasury are producing. The UK is facing difficult times ahead.
:02:17. > :02:22.The budget is set to be reduced by 1.5%, a to ?200 million. This year,
:02:23. > :02:29.we are already dealing with ?100 million worth of deductions. We
:02:30. > :02:36.happens to agree with a welfare reform package. That is ?100 million
:02:37. > :02:43.that could be spent on services like education, health, jobs and events.
:02:44. > :02:45.Edwin Poots has highlighted 70 million of a cut in the health
:02:46. > :02:56.budget, where will the rest of it million of a cut in the health
:02:57. > :02:59.for the Executive and they have to agree what they want to do with
:03:00. > :03:02.for the Executive and they have to reductions because of the failure of
:03:03. > :03:07.moving forwards with welfare reform. I would suggest that if you do that
:03:08. > :03:12.on a pro rata basis, take ?100 million of every department, you
:03:13. > :03:19.would have helped suffering, and you would have education suffering. The
:03:20. > :03:25.jobs and the economy would suffer by ?200 million. It is a small
:03:26. > :03:31.departments that is trying to bring in jobs and investment. Health is a
:03:32. > :03:38.departments that is trying to bring Northern Ireland. It is a lot of
:03:39. > :03:44.people who are going to suffer. John, how you going to cope with a
:03:45. > :03:47.reduction? If that is what is going to happen, then that is a matter for
:03:48. > :03:56.the Executive. Surely, we are having the wrong discussion. The discussion
:03:57. > :04:00.we should be having is how we present a united front to the
:04:01. > :04:05.British government and stand up to them over the cuts. That is instead
:04:06. > :04:10.of the day you be having hot dogs and champagne like they did last
:04:11. > :04:18.week. They should be working with their Executive colleagues. I
:04:19. > :04:22.thought it was peanuts and Diet Coke. I do not know if you barbecue
:04:23. > :04:26.peanuts but whatever they were doing in that garden of Downing Street,
:04:27. > :04:33.they were not standing up for the most vulnerable. That conversation
:04:34. > :04:38.has passed. The Treasury has made it clear that the cuts are happening.
:04:39. > :04:45.We mist the boat. The conversation is not over. We have turned around
:04:46. > :04:50.and said we are not prepared to implement Tory policy on this. The
:04:51. > :04:55.conversation is not over and I think it is regrettable that the D U P
:04:56. > :04:59.have decided, for whatever reason, to form a relationship with the Tory
:05:00. > :05:07.party. That is a huge mistake on their behalf, and is a mistake for
:05:08. > :05:13.the ordinary people in society. Why have you closed the conversation
:05:14. > :05:19.down and accepted the Tory cuts? VDU people try to exert influence on the
:05:20. > :05:34.Prime Minister and everybody else. -- the EU P. We have shown a united
:05:35. > :05:39.front. I've had conversations with the Treasury and we have a package
:05:40. > :05:43.in place which will ameliorate the worst effects of welfare reform for
:05:44. > :05:46.people in Northern Ireland. That ensures that the Bedroom Tax does
:05:47. > :05:49.not affect people who are in housing in Northern Ireland, which the
:05:50. > :05:56.Deputy First Minister has agreed to. There are a package of measures
:05:57. > :06:00.which are the envy of the UK. The Tory government have said they will
:06:01. > :06:03.not do anything. If you listen to Labour, there is no way they will do
:06:04. > :06:07.anything radically different to what the Tories are doing. This is a
:06:08. > :06:11.matter of getting on with a good package and is ensuring that the
:06:12. > :06:17.vulnerable people in Northern Ireland do not suffer because they
:06:18. > :06:20.cannot catch the care they require. That is the point you have heard
:06:21. > :06:27.before and point that the DUP make repeatedly. Martin McGuinness has
:06:28. > :06:31.not signed up to this. This package, which is a package and we recognise
:06:32. > :06:38.progress was made on this package, as a result of the DUP and Sinn Fein
:06:39. > :06:42.working together, it is going to cost tax payers. It is going to cost
:06:43. > :06:45.?40 million per annum. Why are we forced to live up to that cost as
:06:46. > :06:53.well as losing other welfare reforms? The package which we have
:06:54. > :06:57.negotiated and which is a reasonable step forward is also costing money.
:06:58. > :07:04.Let's go back to the British government and face up to them in a
:07:05. > :07:07.united wave. It is a good package and we can move forwards with this.
:07:08. > :07:17.These are reforms that have been implemented already. Let me ask you
:07:18. > :07:24.about a couple of things. You mentioned that two or ?3 million
:07:25. > :07:27.could be lost. It is a departments that sells Northern Ireland outside
:07:28. > :07:31.of this place. Are you saying that the tourist board will have to think
:07:32. > :07:41.long and hard about supporting things like the Irish open? We had
:07:42. > :07:47.the Giro last week and we have attracted thousands of jobs. We have
:07:48. > :07:52.had reports about how Northern Ireland have had their best year on
:07:53. > :07:57.record, supporting 11,000 jobs. That is good news for Northern Ireland,
:07:58. > :08:02.and if the Executive decides to spread the cost of not moving
:08:03. > :08:05.forwards, inflicting a wound on ourselves, then I am afraid I think
:08:06. > :08:12.the only way to move forward is if everybody takes a reduction, whether
:08:13. > :08:19.it is ?20 million in education or ?2 million elsewhere. I do not want to
:08:20. > :08:27.seem jobs lost in Northern Ireland but the reality is that we all have
:08:28. > :08:34.two live up to the fact. Tens of millions of pounds were handed back
:08:35. > :08:40.last year. The DUP handed back tens of millions of pounds back and we
:08:41. > :08:46.managed to do all of those attractions that were referred to.
:08:47. > :09:00.It is worth noting that the DUSD did not live up to its social housing
:09:01. > :09:03.Bill. Some of the jobs and investment did not come forward and
:09:04. > :09:07.that is understandable, the economy has been moving, and we are in
:09:08. > :09:11.recovery, but some of the jobs have not come forward in the same time.
:09:12. > :09:18.Now the jobs have come forward, the economy is moving forward. What
:09:19. > :09:23.about the IT cost of all of this? Depending on what happens, there
:09:24. > :09:30.could be a cost of ?1 billion if we decide to go it alone. Are those
:09:31. > :09:35.figures right? We have done some work with a departments to have
:09:36. > :09:41.consulted with the Department for Work and Pensions, and if we do not
:09:42. > :09:46.go ahead with welfare reform, we will have a situation where the old
:09:47. > :09:50.computer system is not going to pay the benefits, and we face the
:09:51. > :09:53.prospect of people not getting their benefits pay in 2016. We have to
:09:54. > :09:58.back our own IT system. benefits pay in 2016. We have to
:09:59. > :09:59.purchased the old knackered system that they have in England, or you
:10:00. > :10:08.build your own that they have in England, or you
:10:09. > :10:12.systems benefits many people and cost hundreds of millions of pounds.
:10:13. > :10:20.This is a cost to the people of Northern Ireland. There is no cost.
:10:21. > :10:29.I was an executive Minister, and I asked for costs, and we cannot
:10:30. > :10:34.receive them. Of course there is a cost. You cannot go into PC World
:10:35. > :10:41.and by this! If you need a new PC system, you will need costs. It is
:10:42. > :10:46.worth noting that the IT system in England is not working, and they
:10:47. > :10:54.have only brought a few thousand people onto Universal Credit, and
:10:55. > :10:56.they need millions. The British government have turned around and
:10:57. > :11:02.said they are going to find our Executive. Are you saying there is
:11:03. > :11:05.no problem and Simon should calm down because there are so much money
:11:06. > :11:10.left at the end of the year so you can throw it all back in the money
:11:11. > :11:13.box? Of course there is a problem but it is how we approach the
:11:14. > :11:22.problem and I believe that the Executive needs to present a united
:11:23. > :11:23.front to the DUP. The DUP are making a serious error of judgement by
:11:24. > :11:27.quoting the Tories. John, a serious error of judgement by
:11:28. > :11:33.the one who are threatening. You are threatening vulnerable people in
:11:34. > :11:35.Northern Ireland by not showing the leadership that is required on this
:11:36. > :11:35.issue. leadership that is required on this
:11:36. > :11:44.suffer any leadership that is required on this
:11:45. > :11:54.sorted? It's needs to be sorted in the next month. We need a decision.
:11:55. > :11:59.What about in June? It will be sorted out. We will make real
:12:00. > :12:05.progress for the benefit of our society. Thank you very much indeed.
:12:06. > :12:07.progress for the benefit of our Now, the image of our rolling
:12:08. > :12:12.countryside may be something like offer postcard, but divisions have
:12:13. > :12:16.emerged in farming sector and money is at the heart of it, especially
:12:17. > :12:21.the distribution of European subsidies. Europe is demanding
:12:22. > :12:25.changes in the way their cash is shared out, and as our reporter
:12:26. > :12:29.reports, it is a political issue that has pitched up land against low
:12:30. > :12:48.land and farm against Pharma. It is a magnet for farmers from
:12:49. > :13:02.across Northern Ireland they come to enjoy the Balmoral show. For all the
:13:03. > :13:08.Carnival feeling this is a community that is suffering. This has the
:13:09. > :13:13.potential to be divisive. Our concern was that this would set
:13:14. > :13:21.sector against sector and farm against Obama. We have been accused
:13:22. > :13:26.of many things over the last few months, being unproductive, looking
:13:27. > :13:29.after our own greed, massive shifts of money going into
:13:30. > :13:32.after our own greed, massive shifts productive area. At stake is the
:13:33. > :13:37.hand million pounds a year from Europe which is distributed in the
:13:38. > :13:42.form of an annual subsidy payments. The way in which the ?300 million is
:13:43. > :13:49.divided up amongst the farms is set to change. Depending on the system
:13:50. > :13:52.adopted, some farms could see a major increase in their annual
:13:53. > :13:57.subsidy while others could see a substantial decrease. Like other
:13:58. > :14:04.regions, Northern Ireland must submit its proposals to Brussels in
:14:05. > :14:09.a few months' time. Hill farmers are demanding a bigger share of the pot.
:14:10. > :14:16.We are basically out to get fair play loans for farmers who have been
:14:17. > :14:19.spoken down for years. The vast majority of the cattle here adds to
:14:20. > :14:27.the lowlands. They created the wealth for those people and that has
:14:28. > :14:32.been taken away from us. There is a lot of protectionism of the status
:14:33. > :14:38.quo and we want to try and readdress that balance. In disadvantaged
:14:39. > :14:44.farming areas, the demand is for a immediate switch to a flat subsidy
:14:45. > :14:49.payments, and move which will channel more in European subsidy
:14:50. > :14:52.payments to Upland areas. With no extra cash in the subsidy pot, the
:14:53. > :14:56.extra money for hill farms would be at the expense of lowland farms.
:14:57. > :15:04.Some would lose 40% of their annual payment and that is resisted by
:15:05. > :15:11.many. We want as little as distortion as possible. This is a
:15:12. > :15:14.vital lifeline for farmers and anyone in receipt of payment is
:15:15. > :15:20.dependent on that for the survival of the business so it is about
:15:21. > :15:23.starting off with a process and giving the industry as long as
:15:24. > :15:30.possible to wean itself off the single farm payment. As in so many
:15:31. > :15:33.political debates, there is history. Back when the current system of
:15:34. > :15:41.subsidy payments was designed, lowland farms fared best. The
:15:42. > :15:48.rationale was simple. Fertile lowland farms received the most but
:15:49. > :15:54.that left many hill farmers feeling aggrieved. They felt the subsidy
:15:55. > :16:03.system was stacked against them. There are complaints about how the
:16:04. > :16:10.hill farmers have worse land and do not deserve as much. They have less
:16:11. > :16:15.damage to the climate, all the things, environmentally and
:16:16. > :16:24.biodiversity are contributing to that. I think it is right that it is
:16:25. > :16:28.spread evenly. It is a startling fact that 87% of total farming
:16:29. > :16:32.income in Northern Ireland is represented by the annual subsidy
:16:33. > :16:39.payment from Europe. Without that, most farm businesses would collapse.
:16:40. > :16:45.As would thousands of processing jobs in dairy industries. The single
:16:46. > :16:57.farm payment is a key factor and it pays a key part in the income in the
:16:58. > :17:02.-- of farmers. Canned beef and sheep production still continue to be a
:17:03. > :17:06.viable enterprise? The most important thing is nothing too
:17:07. > :17:11.quickly, that we can transition, we can get used to something because we
:17:12. > :17:15.do not need shocks. There is a lot of money invested. Banks are
:17:16. > :17:19.difficult to deal with if you them money. I think we all need time to
:17:20. > :17:24.get used to a new environment, and certainly, we will have to deal with
:17:25. > :17:30.quotas gone, a new marketplace, no sort of support. If we lose the
:17:31. > :17:37.single farm payment too quickly, it will certainly put people 's backs
:17:38. > :17:42.to the wall. Time is running out for Northern Ireland to make its
:17:43. > :17:46.proposals to Europe, and while the Agriculture Minister Michele O'Neil
:17:47. > :17:49.says she wants a deal, farm subsidies represents another
:17:50. > :17:53.decisive issue needing executive approval.
:17:54. > :17:57.Martin Cassidy reporting. And tonight the DUP and Sinn Fein
:17:58. > :18:00.candidates join me live in the studio - Diane Dodds and Martina
:18:01. > :18:05.Anderson respectively - both of them outgoing MEPs.
:18:06. > :18:09.You are both very welcome to the programme. Martin Anderson, you made
:18:10. > :18:15.your position about farm subsidies crystal clear by calling for flat
:18:16. > :18:21.rate subsidies. Why do you think such a change is necessary? There
:18:22. > :18:28.are thousands of farmers here in the North saving below the average
:18:29. > :18:33.single farm payment. I have visited farmers. I went to Peter Gallagher
:18:34. > :18:37.and others and got an experience with regard to the kind of
:18:38. > :18:44.productive farming that goes on in family farms. These farmers deserve
:18:45. > :18:49.a fair and equal distribution of the single farm payment. That said,
:18:50. > :18:52.while I recognise that there are a lot of farmers who do not want it
:18:53. > :18:57.brought in right away, I think that we could go through a transition,
:18:58. > :19:02.but that transition would need to be sooner rather than later. That goes
:19:03. > :19:06.further than your Sinn Fein colleague at Stormont, Michelle
:19:07. > :19:13.O'Neill, who has still not made her position clear? I have been engaging
:19:14. > :19:17.with Michelle and Michelle has been engaging with others, but Michelle
:19:18. > :19:19.is acutely aware, that there are thousands of farmers who are
:19:20. > :19:26.receiving below the single farm payment. Michelle wants this to be
:19:27. > :19:32.distributed equally and fairly. There are 2.5 billion coming in here
:19:33. > :19:35.to the North over a seven-year period and we have argued for that
:19:36. > :19:41.in Europe. What we need to do is make sure every farmer, family farms
:19:42. > :19:47.are able to get access to that so they can all benefit. Diane Dodds,
:19:48. > :19:51.isn't greater economy a good goal? It has been my privilege to serve as
:19:52. > :19:57.a member of the agriculture committee in Europe. We fought for
:19:58. > :20:02.the CAP reform for regional flexibility. We have an opportunity
:20:03. > :20:06.here in Northern Ireland to make CAP reform fit the conditions of
:20:07. > :20:09.Northern Ireland farming. Northern Ireland farming
:20:10. > :20:15.Northern Ireland farming. Northern the food industry, which earns over
:20:16. > :20:22.5 billion every year for economy. But it has become a
:20:23. > :20:27.political issue now? The point we must realise in all of this is there
:20:28. > :20:33.is change coming but that change must be managed, that change must be
:20:34. > :20:37.slow. Why must it be slow? Family farms in Northern Ireland have their
:20:38. > :20:37.slow. Why must it be slow? Family business model setup. Any sudden
:20:38. > :20:42.shocks will business model setup. Any sudden
:20:43. > :20:46.business. We have an important beef industry which exports 75% of
:20:47. > :20:49.everything that we produce industry which exports 75% of
:20:50. > :20:57.Northern Ireland. That beef industry will be at stake if we go for sudden
:20:58. > :21:02.transition. You think a phase change rather than an immediate change?
:21:03. > :21:05.What we now need is for the Agriculture Minister to bring some
:21:06. > :21:09.certainty and clarity for the industry, to allow farmers to have
:21:10. > :21:13.their farm business model adjusted over a long period of time, and we
:21:14. > :21:18.need that clarity and certainty soon. The Minister has refused to do
:21:19. > :21:24.that so far and we look forward to her bringing how proposals. We look
:21:25. > :21:28.forward to those proposals coming before executive colleagues. And we
:21:29. > :21:36.look forward to an agreed consensus with both the industry and with
:21:37. > :21:40.other people in The Executive. But there would be people who favour
:21:41. > :21:48.more immediate change. What is your message to them? We have said we
:21:49. > :21:52.would support productive farming wherever that productive farming is
:21:53. > :21:56.in Northern Ireland. What about small farmers who I DUP supporters?
:21:57. > :22:02.Small farmers who are very productive farmers, many of our beef
:22:03. > :22:07.farmers farm small acreages but farm intensively. They are very
:22:08. > :22:12.productive and they are creating money from Northern Ireland. Martina
:22:13. > :22:21.Anderson, you have been an MEP since 2012. Are you confident you will
:22:22. > :22:27.beat Bairbre de Brun's success and 26% of the vote? That will be up to
:22:28. > :22:31.the voters. The one thing I am confident about is my track record
:22:32. > :22:35.over the last two years is there for everyone to examine. I think the
:22:36. > :22:42.voters themselves will recognise that I am the MEP that is standing
:22:43. > :22:46.up for a lot of people in Europe. I am not taking the voters for
:22:47. > :22:49.granted. Standing up for a lot of people and I know you have been
:22:50. > :22:53.telling me you have been out on the hustings and out on the pavement
:22:54. > :22:58.every day for the last number of weeks, how many unionist areas have
:22:59. > :23:04.you canvassed? I have been in every constituency in the North. You ask
:23:05. > :23:10.me about unionist areas as if they are no-go areas. There are no no-go
:23:11. > :23:16.areas for Republicans. What kind of response have you had? I am
:23:17. > :23:19.pleasantly surprised with the engagement that I'm having with
:23:20. > :23:24.people but I would not take the voters for granted. I have been all
:23:25. > :23:29.over the North. Just to add to that, I have taken a number of delegations
:23:30. > :23:34.to Europe because my message, when I was selected in 2012, was to bring
:23:35. > :23:41.Europe to you and bring you to Europe. Chamber of commerce, both
:23:42. > :23:47.traditions, three sporting codes, GAA, soccer and rugby, the list is
:23:48. > :23:52.endless, I have taken both traditions to Europe. Diane, I think
:23:53. > :23:58.it's fair to say you delivered a fairly disappointing result for the
:23:59. > :24:03.DUP back in 2009. You lost 87,000 votes on the previous election, can
:24:04. > :24:06.you make up any of that lost ground? I will be setting my record of work
:24:07. > :24:12.before the people of Northern Ireland. That is a record of five
:24:13. > :24:16.years of work, the MEP with the best parliamentary record in Northern
:24:17. > :24:20.Ireland, in the top five MEPs across the United Kingdom and of the top
:24:21. > :24:24.10% of all MEPs right across the countries that are members of the
:24:25. > :24:29.European Parliament. That is also balanced by a record of work at
:24:30. > :24:34.home, where I have held meetings in every part of Northern Ireland. 120
:24:35. > :24:40.meetings over the last number of years, dealing with funding, four
:24:41. > :24:44.funding directories, money directly into communities. That is the record
:24:45. > :24:49.I will be setting for the people of Northern Ireland. I will be asking
:24:50. > :24:52.for their support and I have been across Northern Ireland. I have
:24:53. > :24:57.stood for the last two days at the Balmoral Show. I have spoken to
:24:58. > :25:01.thousands of people who have come through the stand at Balmoral. I am
:25:02. > :25:06.pleased that there is a good mood among the unionism and a mood among
:25:07. > :25:10.Unionism where it is congregating around the strongest party that has
:25:11. > :25:15.the strength and the strategic vision to take Northern Ireland
:25:16. > :25:20.forward. I want to ask you both about a referendum on EU membership.
:25:21. > :25:23.Diane Dodds, if there is an EU referendum and the Prime Minister
:25:24. > :25:29.has promised that will happen at the end of 2016 if he is still in power,
:25:30. > :25:34.what would your position be on that? We have always said the EU of 2014
:25:35. > :25:37.is not in the best interests of the United Kingdom and the people of
:25:38. > :25:41.Northern Ireland. If there was a referendum tomorrow we would ask the
:25:42. > :25:46.people of Northern Ireland to come out of the EU. What is your message
:25:47. > :25:52.to the farmers who depend on EU subsidies? What we are actually
:25:53. > :25:56.saying is, or what is the actual reality for Northern Ireland is that
:25:57. > :26:00.the Prime Minister has promised renegotiation. We are saying to the
:26:01. > :26:04.Prime Minister that must be fundamental renegotiation that gives
:26:05. > :26:08.us back control over our own laws, control over our own borders,
:26:09. > :26:14.control over our money and control over our future. The democratic
:26:15. > :26:20.legitimacy of Europe is running out. We need to know where the United
:26:21. > :26:23.Kingdom stands. Fundamental re-negotiation as far as Diane Dodds
:26:24. > :26:31.is concerned. What is Sinn Fein's position? Ireland's place is in
:26:32. > :26:38.Europe. You are MEP whether you like it or not. Ireland's place is in
:26:39. > :26:43.Europe, North and South. Should a referendum take place, we would ask
:26:44. > :26:47.voters to vote to stay in the EU. I'll appalled listening to Diane. If
:26:48. > :26:51.you are trying to tell the people here in the north, because the most
:26:52. > :26:57.important constituency, Diane, is our own. I do trying to tell them
:26:58. > :27:02.that the British government will replace the funding that we get for
:27:03. > :27:05.peace, the funding from CAP, the funding from the single farm
:27:06. > :27:10.payments, we have just listened to minister talk about cuts. I was the
:27:11. > :27:14.only MEP from the main political parties in the north and in the
:27:15. > :27:19.south who voted against the cuts. You voted against cuts for peace,
:27:20. > :27:23.for single farm payments, for rural development, for all of those
:27:24. > :27:26.constituents. And now you're trying to tell people that if we pull out
:27:27. > :27:29.of Europe, that the British government in some way is going to
:27:30. > :27:37.replace all of that. That is bonkers. What we have to realise is
:27:38. > :27:41.Martina Anderson wearing her economic illiterate hat of Sinn
:27:42. > :27:43.Fein, sitting in the European Parliament with many of the Marxists
:27:44. > :27:50.and former Communists of Eason Europe, -- Eastern Europe, is trying
:27:51. > :27:52.to tell the people of Northern Ireland that they would allow the
:27:53. > :28:00.European Union to spend, spend, spend their money and their taxes...
:28:01. > :28:09.What they are the people who vote for us. I actually think that the
:28:10. > :28:14.people in Northern Ireland want value for money. They see our
:28:15. > :28:17.contribution in the United Kingdom of over 19 billion every year and
:28:18. > :28:24.less than half of that back into the United Kingdom to spend in the
:28:25. > :28:32.United Kingdom. That is absolutely nonsense economics for Sinn Fein to
:28:33. > :28:37.put out there. I want you to answer in a word or two each of
:28:38. > :28:39.put out there. I want you to answer work together in Europe, due share a
:28:40. > :28:43.cappuccino often? We work together in Europe, due share a
:28:44. > :28:47.cappuccino but if there are any issues we have to deal with we have
:28:48. > :28:52.to do that but let's be rate clear, I am against cuts, I'm against
:28:53. > :28:58.austerity, she is completely different to me. In the European
:28:59. > :29:04.Parliament of 766 members from 28 different member states, it is
:29:05. > :29:07.absolutely imperative that MEPs from Northern Ireland work on issues that
:29:08. > :29:13.are for the good of Northern Ireland. Together? Let me make it
:29:14. > :29:18.absolutely clear, Mark, I am standing up for Northern Ireland. I
:29:19. > :29:21.am not standing up for this nonsense that Sinn Fein are talking
:29:22. > :29:23.am not standing up for this nonsense will leave it there, thank you both
:29:24. > :29:27.very much. Martina Anderson and Diane Dodds,
:29:28. > :29:30.thank you. And joining me now with their thoughts on what we've been
:29:31. > :29:39.discussing tonight are Professors Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford. A
:29:40. > :29:47.quick word on the exchange of views there? I'm not surprised they have
:29:48. > :29:54.not shed a cup of cappuccino in Brussels. I have to say, the thing
:29:55. > :29:58.we have to recognise in Northern Ireland is we are in a condition of
:29:59. > :30:06.double dependency. We are dependent on the EU and the UK. The farming
:30:07. > :30:08.community takes up a much larger slice of the workforce and a
:30:09. > :30:15.contribution to our economy than is the case over the water. But the
:30:16. > :30:19.idea that there should be some flat equalising rate of subsidy for
:30:20. > :30:23.farmers, actually, I am not an economist, I am always regarded as a
:30:24. > :30:31.dismal scientist, but it does not make sense to me. It does not take
:30:32. > :30:36.account of deficiencies. It can logically it may sound good but in
:30:37. > :30:44.terms of practice I do not think so. Deirdre? There is a paradox here. We
:30:45. > :30:49.are hearing how important farming is, 87% of subsidies are coming from
:30:50. > :30:53.Europe. And yet we are hearing from the DUP that we want to be out of
:30:54. > :30:57.Europe because it is costing us money. I think we have to be clear
:30:58. > :31:01.that we are dependent. Northern Ireland is does well out of Europe
:31:02. > :31:06.and our farmers are wholly reliant on it. The reality is the farming
:31:07. > :31:10.business has been the success story of this austerity and downturn. We
:31:11. > :31:15.need to protect those farmers and the small farmers. The food sector
:31:16. > :31:32.contributes a lot to the economy as well. What chance and -- Northern
:31:33. > :31:36.Ireland agreement in June? The idea that there can be a Northern Ireland
:31:37. > :31:42.card played by asked just does not work. On the case of the DUP meeting
:31:43. > :31:46.the Prime Minister last week with whatever they were drinking, if they
:31:47. > :31:50.came back from that with a commitment from the Treasury to
:31:51. > :31:54.reduce corporation tax which all parties are in favour of, I cannot
:31:55. > :31:58.see Sinn Fein saying that is a terrible outcome of that meeting.
:31:59. > :32:02.Will there be agreement? There has to be agreement. The dispersing
:32:03. > :32:07.thing is the focus is on the spending side -- the dispiriting
:32:08. > :32:16.thing. There is nothing about the getting side of the spending side.
:32:17. > :32:19.We have two types of politics here. One is we are talking about the
:32:20. > :32:23.nuclear option and scare tactics, the other one seems to be stick your
:32:24. > :32:26.head in the sand and pretend it will not happen. We need to face up to
:32:27. > :32:31.it, the parties come together and decide what is the best way to deal
:32:32. > :32:34.with it. For single parents you'd want some schemes to assist them
:32:35. > :32:38.back into work. You would want to address the whole issue of childcare
:32:39. > :32:43.in Northern Ireland which is a huge issue. There is the demand side of
:32:44. > :32:46.jobs and supply side and we would want to say, where are the jobs for
:32:47. > :32:51.people coming off welfare and how will we assist people? The most we
:32:52. > :32:56.can hope for is a softer landing than the rest of the UK. The
:32:57. > :33:04.favourite word of the Treasury is No. But very briefly, if there is
:33:05. > :33:10.not an agreement, something will be imposed? Of course it will happen.
:33:11. > :33:13.We know the coalition are not interested in the special pleading
:33:14. > :33:17.or Northern Ireland as a special case. They simply will impose
:33:18. > :33:23.penalties. Those penalties will get harsher as we have to go along. We
:33:24. > :33:27.need to leave it there. That is it from The View.
:33:28. > :33:32.Join me for the Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One. Now we
:33:33. > :33:35.leave you with the latest trend, the selfie. Look out for a familiar
:33:36. > :33:38.face. Goodbye.