:00:00. > :00:25.Hello and welcome to a new series of the View.
:00:26. > :00:29.Tonight, stand-off in stalemate have been the hallmarks of Stormont as
:00:30. > :00:35.last year, but things could be coming to a head. Peter Robinson
:00:36. > :00:40.wants to renegotiate the structures of government. We have an issue
:00:41. > :00:46.which cannot be left on the shelf. It has to be dealt with. So, might
:00:47. > :00:54.welfare reform break Stormont? I will be talking to two ministers.
:00:55. > :00:58.Also on the programme:A lack of harmony in the Scottish referendum
:00:59. > :01:04.campaign, but what might the political consequences be here? Plus
:01:05. > :01:13.one expat Scot gives us his musical take on independence.
:01:14. > :01:18.And backing commentators, for the new term, you can join the debate on
:01:19. > :01:30.Twitter as ever. Good evening. By this time next
:01:31. > :01:34.week, the polls will have closed and we will all but know the result of
:01:35. > :01:38.the Scottish referendum. The last few days have been a roller-coaster
:01:39. > :01:41.ride of us conferences and opinion polls, with the Mercury rising as
:01:42. > :01:46.politicians argue the toss over greater devolution versus all-out
:01:47. > :01:49.independence. More on that later in the programme. But on this side of
:01:50. > :01:53.the Irish Sea, devolution is causing huge difficulties for our
:01:54. > :01:59.politicians. No longer fit for purpose was how Peter Robinson
:02:00. > :02:03.described it, and Gerry Adams warned that the political process is in
:02:04. > :02:10.serious difficulty. So what does the future hold for our devolved
:02:11. > :02:19.institutions? Joining me Simon Hamilton and John O'Dowd. We have
:02:20. > :02:24.something we can work out over the next couple of weeks, but what Peter
:02:25. > :02:29.is indicated this week, he has been open and calm and has pointed out
:02:30. > :02:33.something that has becoming creasing the obvious to many people here in
:02:34. > :02:36.Northern Ireland, that, despite the successes that we have had over the
:02:37. > :02:41.last few years in respect of devolution, we have hit a hurdle in
:02:42. > :02:44.the shape of Welfare Reform Bill more which is shining a spotlight on
:02:45. > :02:52.the fact that the institutions at Stormont are no longer fit for
:02:53. > :02:58.purpose, and they do need reform. What we have at the minute is only a
:02:59. > :03:04.staging post, along the road that we were travelling, and it is in need
:03:05. > :03:09.of change. You haven't really got a plan? We will get into the detail of
:03:10. > :03:12.how it works, but what Peter is outlining is something that I think
:03:13. > :03:16.most people in Northern Ireland will agree with. He has got it absolutely
:03:17. > :03:22.right. The structures are no longer fit for purpose. We have a situation
:03:23. > :03:27.now with welfare if where, if we do not get to grips with it, we have a
:03:28. > :03:33.serious situation where up to ?1 billion per year, up to 10% of our
:03:34. > :03:38.budget, could be going to pay for IT systems and penalties. That is a
:03:39. > :03:46.hurdle that we can't get over. John O'Dowd, is Sinn Fein at these
:03:47. > :03:53.proposed new talks? We were up for the last talks, we were up for the
:03:54. > :03:58.Haass Talks. We were involved in talks in July. We remained in the
:03:59. > :04:03.negotiating room when the others walked out. So it is not a question
:04:04. > :04:10.of whether we are up for talks or not, the question is is Unionism up
:04:11. > :04:14.talks. With their partners in government and with their partners
:04:15. > :04:19.in this society. In relation to whether the institutions are fit for
:04:20. > :04:25.purpose or not, I believe they are. What concerns me the more this
:04:26. > :04:28.debate goes on during the week is that negotiations with the DUP are
:04:29. > :04:34.not about improving how we deliver government. They are about how we
:04:35. > :04:38.deliver welfare cuts, and that is a serious matter. Can we be clear
:04:39. > :04:41.before we go any further, as far as these talks are concerned, and Simon
:04:42. > :04:46.Hamilton says he doesn't have the details yet, but apparently we are
:04:47. > :04:52.moving towards talks, are Sinn Fein in the tent or outside the tent? We
:04:53. > :04:57.are always up for discussions. But discussions on how we move forward,
:04:58. > :05:00.not how we go back. Anyone who has a notion that we are going to go back
:05:01. > :05:08.to a 1-party state... Nobody is saying that. We are putting on the
:05:09. > :05:14.table, if there is going to be talks about moving forward, not about
:05:15. > :05:19.moving back. Is this about moving forward, or about recreating the
:05:20. > :05:22.Orange state? Peter Robinson, one of the first things he said in this
:05:23. > :05:27.article in the Belfast Telegraph was that we need the smaller parties to
:05:28. > :05:31.be there. Why? Why not deal is just the executive parties? There is
:05:32. > :05:37.nothing wrong with broadening the amount of participants in talks
:05:38. > :05:42.processes. But it makes it more difficult. It is something that has
:05:43. > :05:46.happened in the past and it hasn't invented things. Do think Jim
:05:47. > :05:50.Allister would help? It is absolutely about moving forward. I
:05:51. > :05:54.heard this yesterday from Gerry Adams, that this was a Unionist
:05:55. > :05:58.attempted to re-establishing a Norwich state. Gerry Adams is a
:05:59. > :06:02.voice from a different era, and coming up with answers like that
:06:03. > :06:08.only reflects poorly on Sinn Fein's position. This is not about
:06:09. > :06:13.breaching any issues around anything or advancing a political agenda.
:06:14. > :06:19.This is about making the institutions at storm at work
:06:20. > :06:23.better. I welcome what John said about Sinn Fein participating in
:06:24. > :06:26.talks. That is progress. This is about getting over the issues we
:06:27. > :06:31.have had. We now have a serious problem with which does threaten the
:06:32. > :06:38.very existence of Stormont and devolution here in Northern Ireland.
:06:39. > :06:40.It affects his own department in terms of restructuring education.
:06:41. > :06:44.There have been issues in the last seven or eight years which we have
:06:45. > :06:49.all come across which haven't reflected well on the institutions.
:06:50. > :06:55.Have you given up on Sinn Fein doing a deal on welfare reform? Have you
:06:56. > :06:59.set that to one side? All you have to do is listen to Gerry Adams or
:07:00. > :07:04.Martin McGuinness, and it is clear that there is no apparent move on
:07:05. > :07:10.Welfare Reform Bill and that is deeply troubling. We are facing
:07:11. > :07:17.penalties this year of ?100 million, and that ramps up. You also have a
:07:18. > :07:20.situation where, and this has been indicated by Government in London
:07:21. > :07:22.who says there is no more scope for negotiation, but that we ourselves
:07:23. > :07:29.will then have to take responsibility for the eye systems
:07:30. > :07:34.-- the IT systems. 10% off all block grant, ?1 billion a year, is what
:07:35. > :07:37.they say the cost would be. Is Welfare Reform Bill the agenda, or
:07:38. > :07:42.is there any wriggle room that would allow you to do a deal is that we
:07:43. > :07:46.could all move on? It is not the case of Sinn Fein and the DUP doing
:07:47. > :07:49.the deal on the welfare cuts. It is a case, in our opinion, the
:07:50. > :07:57.executive parties doing a deal the British government. But what has
:07:58. > :08:03.happened is that the British -- the DUP have stopped negotiating with
:08:04. > :08:09.the government. The British government has made it clear time
:08:10. > :08:14.and again in public states once and letters, and you know because you
:08:15. > :08:18.have read them, it has reached its bottom line. There are no further
:08:19. > :08:22.negotiations. This is the British Government only for this week told
:08:23. > :08:24.the Scottish people that if they stayed with Britain that they will
:08:25. > :08:29.give them greater fax ability around welfare. So the rebellious Scots
:08:30. > :08:37.have got more than the Unionists on that point. They are only offering
:08:38. > :08:40.what we have already. The welfare system in England is not working.
:08:41. > :08:46.The fines being imposed upon the executive require further
:08:47. > :08:49.interrogation, and political and perhaps legal challenge as well,
:08:50. > :08:53.because they don't stack up. They have a system in England which is
:08:54. > :08:57.not working. The new computer system which we keep being told will cost
:08:58. > :09:02.us ?1 billion to take over isn't even anywhere near operational. The
:09:03. > :09:06.reforms which they are bringing in England have been stalled. Are you
:09:07. > :09:12.just sticking your head in the sand? Let's look at the fact. Iain
:09:13. > :09:17.Duncan Smith's job was on the line during the last Cabinet reshuffle
:09:18. > :09:23.because they are that frustrated about the pace and cost of what is
:09:24. > :09:31.going on. John is living in cloud cuckoo land. You can't dismiss the
:09:32. > :09:37.penalties that are already coming off, ?13 million lost already. We
:09:38. > :09:42.are losing another ?87 million this year, 114 next year. It goes up, it
:09:43. > :09:48.goes up, it goes up even further. That is all money that I can't give
:09:49. > :09:50.to the education minister, the health Minister, to spend on
:09:51. > :09:55.much-needed Blick services here in Northern Ireland. That is not
:09:56. > :09:59.something that can be easily dismissed. As for the idea of going
:10:00. > :10:03.back to Downing Street and knocking on the door of number ten, that has
:10:04. > :10:07.been done, and the message has been received loudly and clearly from
:10:08. > :10:12.everybody from the Secretary of State Deputy Prime Minister to the
:10:13. > :10:16.Prime Minister himself. The Scots have put the frighteners on Downing
:10:17. > :10:20.Street, and all of a sudden, lots of things are up for grabs that weren't
:10:21. > :10:25.up for grabs ten days ago. What the Scots are being offered on welfare
:10:26. > :10:32.is what we have already. But they weren't being offered Devo Max, and
:10:33. > :10:35.now they are. The narrowing of the polls, it has advanced that it was
:10:36. > :10:38.inevitably go to happen, the transfer of more powers to Scotland.
:10:39. > :10:44.It was always going to happen after the referendum. So we can get
:10:45. > :10:47.distracted with this sort of talk about going off to Downing Street
:10:48. > :10:49.and knocking on the door, but it won't get anything more for Northern
:10:50. > :10:57.Ireland in respect of welfare reform. So can need ready to agree a
:10:58. > :11:01.budget for 2015/2016? That is something that is going to be
:11:02. > :11:07.incredibly challenging, but we do still have to agree a budget. We
:11:08. > :11:12.have nothing in place at the minute. Given the pressures that we are
:11:13. > :11:19.already under, the pressures added to by ?140 million of penalties, and
:11:20. > :11:24.repairing for taking on an IT system, it will be challenging. What
:11:25. > :11:35.you think the chances are a the Budget been agreed for the next
:11:36. > :11:40.financial year? In 2014, it is ?10 billion. So right away, the
:11:41. > :11:48.executive is facing a very strained budget because we are dealing with a
:11:49. > :11:51.Tory Government his economic strategy is concentrated on the
:11:52. > :11:57.south-east of England and has left every body else behind. And that is
:11:58. > :12:09.the realpolitik that you have to live with. In terms of where we are
:12:10. > :12:14.now, decisions need to be made on the 2015/2016 budget. We need to
:12:15. > :12:18.watch very carefully what happens in Scotland, and need to make sure that
:12:19. > :12:23.we campaigned strongly to ensure that the rights and financial rights
:12:24. > :12:30.of citizens here are prioritised. Can budget be agreed? I believe can
:12:31. > :12:38.be. If it can't be, will store Mont fall? We all want to agree. I
:12:39. > :12:41.actually went disagree with John. The budget has in effect been flat
:12:42. > :12:46.over the last number of years from 2010. That has proved very
:12:47. > :12:50.difficult. It will get much worse. We are only four years into at least
:12:51. > :12:56.nine years of austerity coming from London will stop it is already
:12:57. > :12:59.difficult, but the problem is compounded when you are shooting
:13:00. > :13:06.yourself in the foot by handing back this year alone ?100 million, next
:13:07. > :13:13.year over 100 million. We need to draw things to a close. Tens of
:13:14. > :13:17.thousands viewers watching this programme tonight to rely on working
:13:18. > :13:23.family tax credits, child benefit, other benefits. They will face
:13:24. > :13:28.severe personal financial crisis, and that is not the job of the
:13:29. > :13:33.equity. No meeting of minds. Thank you both very much indeed for
:13:34. > :13:37.explaining your respective positions.
:13:38. > :13:40.Is the United Kingdom as we know it about change for ever? With the
:13:41. > :13:45.narrowing of the polls in Scotland, David Cameron, Ed Miliband at Nick
:13:46. > :13:53.Clegg raced north this week in a move that Alex Salmond dismissed as
:13:54. > :13:59.desperation. One of the test has told the View that an offer of help
:14:00. > :14:00.was spurned by the Better Together campaign two years ago. Gareth
:14:01. > :14:15.Gordon has more. we know it, hangs by a thread. But
:14:16. > :14:51.in east the flag hangs from dozens of homes
:14:52. > :14:54.and lamp post. For many in Northern Ireland, this is as much a part of
:14:55. > :14:56.their make-up as the union flag or the Ulster flag. That will not
:14:57. > :14:59.change whichever way the people of Scotland vote next week. The. They
:15:00. > :15:02.are not merely a good neighbour, it is part of their very being. It
:15:03. > :15:04.doesn't get more Scottish than this. It looks like Scotland, and it
:15:05. > :15:07.sounds like Scotland, but in the words of the pipe band, it is notes
:15:08. > :15:09.not votes that matter the most. Playing in the bands the 25 years,
:15:10. > :15:19.that is heritage. That won't change forever? I don't think so. It's not
:15:20. > :15:23.going to affect me. To break the United Kingdom up, it just doesn't
:15:24. > :15:29.seem right or feel right. Do you care one way or not if they go or
:15:30. > :15:33.stay? Not really. Even though you are a member of a pipe band. I'm a
:15:34. > :15:37.member of a pipe band in Northern Ireland, so it doesn't really affect
:15:38. > :15:44.me. But this man says that a yes vote would frighten Unionists. I
:15:45. > :15:48.think it would be a no vote, and that is the way it should be. Once
:15:49. > :15:55.you start splitting the union, that is where problems arise, and I don't
:15:56. > :15:58.think it should happen. On Saturday, the Orange order will parade through
:15:59. > :16:02.Edinburgh in support of the union. Although some in the better together
:16:03. > :16:10.campaign believe that could be counter-productive. I don't think it
:16:11. > :16:15.should have a detrimental impact. The message is that people believe
:16:16. > :16:19.Scotland is better in the union, it doesn't matter what background,
:16:20. > :16:23.colour, class or creed, the union is better moving into the future, and
:16:24. > :16:27.as an organisation, I think they are entitled to show their support for
:16:28. > :16:33.the union and to do it in a way that is very, very traditional for the
:16:34. > :16:36.Orange order institution. In nationalist west Belfast they are
:16:37. > :16:44.also flying the flag, but through a different reason. If Scotland come
:16:45. > :16:49.out of it with the thumbs up, ten or 16 years at the line, we might get
:16:50. > :16:54.the same thing. I'm just hoping that it goes yes. I don't think it's
:16:55. > :16:58.anything to do with us. It is up for the Scottish people to decide what
:16:59. > :17:03.they want to do. I think it is always better to control yourself,
:17:04. > :17:09.so I think Scotland would do better to say yes and have their own power.
:17:10. > :17:14.It is written on the hills up there, did you see it? Free Scotland. The
:17:15. > :17:19.message on the Belfast Hills is clear enough, but from Sinn Fein, we
:17:20. > :17:24.have heard very little. I don't think they want to give ammunition
:17:25. > :17:30.to the Unionists in Scotland, and of course the Unionists in Britain by
:17:31. > :17:35.using the Republic as something that has a vested interest. A yes vote
:17:36. > :17:38.might give impetus to Sinn Fein's call for a poll in Northern
:17:39. > :17:45.Ireland. White does their former director of publicity think it would
:17:46. > :17:48.go that way question --. I think the majority would be against
:17:49. > :17:51.unification so there is a lot of work to be done, politically,
:17:52. > :17:57.socially and economically and the Republicans have to argue the case.
:17:58. > :18:02.Yar Sinn Fein so keen on a vote that you think they would loose heavily
:18:03. > :18:08.-- yar Sinn Fein so keen on a vote that they would lose heavily? The
:18:09. > :18:13.Unionists have also been quiet. They said they were given little option.
:18:14. > :18:17.We did approach the main parties in the UK a couple of years ago at the
:18:18. > :18:22.conferences. That was for two main reasons, firstly, was there anything
:18:23. > :18:26.we could do to help with the Better Together campaign, because we think
:18:27. > :18:29.we are better together, and also to discuss and build contacts or the
:18:30. > :18:35.possible devolution settlement that might come out even with a strong no
:18:36. > :18:37.vote. We had made contact, and on the Better Together issue it was
:18:38. > :18:41.made clear that the English and Welsh colleagues had asked the same
:18:42. > :18:47.question, but as we agree it is a matter for the Scottish people, they
:18:48. > :18:51.thought it would be better for Scottish people to be in the middle
:18:52. > :18:56.of whatever debates they would have and not distract other colleagues
:18:57. > :19:00.and friends. Mark Cosgrove thinks there is still time for the Northern
:19:01. > :19:06.Irish Unionists could to get involved. I hope any conversations
:19:07. > :19:09.that take place for any media that the Unionists might do would give a
:19:10. > :19:15.clear and unequivocal response that on a nonsectarian and fully embrace
:19:16. > :19:18.of way, we want to stay part of the UK and that the economic future and
:19:19. > :19:22.that of your children and the future of the National Health Service, all
:19:23. > :19:27.of those things are at stake here. And I cannot believe that we are as
:19:28. > :19:35.close as the polls are saying, given the strength of the prounion
:19:36. > :19:37.argument. In just over a week we will know how close it has really
:19:38. > :19:40.been. Well the Scottish First Minister,
:19:41. > :19:43.Alex Salmond, has said that "whatever way this
:19:44. > :19:46.goes" he will "remain a true friend So have our politicians
:19:47. > :19:50.anything to worry about? With me now are the leader of the
:19:51. > :19:54.Ulster Unionist Party, Mike Nesbitt, the SDLP's Alban Maginness and from
:19:55. > :20:07.Dundee, David Clegg, the Political Just picking up on the report, would
:20:08. > :20:12.the Better Together campaign have elevated from Ulster Unionist
:20:13. > :20:15.involvement? I don't think so. We brought an agreement forward in 1998
:20:16. > :20:19.that said that the constitutional future of Northern Ireland is in the
:20:20. > :20:23.hands exclusively of the people of Northern Ireland, so to be
:20:24. > :20:25.consistent, Scotland's constitutional future belongs
:20:26. > :20:30.entirely in the hands of the people of Scotland. I of course hope that
:20:31. > :20:34.they recognise that the proven benefits of the union far outweigh
:20:35. > :20:37.the gross uncertainties of independence and they stick with
:20:38. > :20:45.this. What do you think is the best outcome next Thursday from the SDLP
:20:46. > :20:47.point of view? That is a matter from -- for the people of Scotland to
:20:48. > :20:55.decide if they want independence or not. We have stayed out of that
:20:56. > :21:00.debate. I think that in terms of the effect of the result, whether the
:21:01. > :21:04.result be for or against independence, I think it will have a
:21:05. > :21:11.significant impact here in Northern Ireland, because it will mean that
:21:12. > :21:16.the powers, if, for example, Scotland remains part of the UK, the
:21:17. > :21:24.powers of the Scottish Parliament will be enhanced, and that will mean
:21:25. > :21:29.that we will also have an opportunity of asking Westminster to
:21:30. > :21:32.enhance our powers as well and also the Barnett Formula is likely to be
:21:33. > :21:37.affected, and also the distribution of EU funding through the UK will be
:21:38. > :21:46.affected as well, so there are many, many significant features to a no
:21:47. > :21:49.vote, and of course, there is a yes vote, I think that would profoundly
:21:50. > :21:56.affect politics in Northern Ireland. It will impact, I think, adversely,
:21:57. > :22:03.on the Unionist psyche. David Clegg, how tight is it with one week to go?
:22:04. > :22:06.Very, very tight. There was a major meltdown in Unionist circles at the
:22:07. > :22:10.beginning of the week when the Yes campaign went ahead for the first
:22:11. > :22:13.time. They have been working very hard to turn the situation around
:22:14. > :22:18.and since then we have seen David Cameron and Ed Miliband and Nick
:22:19. > :22:23.Clegg there on a love bombing mission and more significantly we
:22:24. > :22:26.have seen a lot of firms and major financial institutions warning of
:22:27. > :22:32.the risks to their business and how it could cost jobs and prosperity.
:22:33. > :22:36.The impact has been there have been new polls since then which have
:22:37. > :22:40.showed the no campaign back in the lead, but only slightly. The daily
:22:41. > :22:47.record had a poll yesterday which showed it was 5248, and there was
:22:48. > :22:52.one that was 5248 today, so it is really, really narrow. Presumably in
:22:53. > :22:55.the next week it is all about winning over the undecided voters
:22:56. > :23:06.and that could be 10% to make all the difference. When it is that
:23:07. > :23:10.tight, those can make all the difference, so and the no side have
:23:11. > :23:15.had a relentless focus on the risks and the fact that if you vote for
:23:16. > :23:19.this, we cannot guarantee that your financial well-being will be saved,
:23:20. > :23:23.and we expect to see that continued because there is a feeling that if
:23:24. > :23:28.you are still undecided at this stage, you are tempted by the yes
:23:29. > :23:34.vote that you are concerned that it might impact negatively on your
:23:35. > :23:36.quality of life. There is a big Orange order parade on Saturday
:23:37. > :23:44.supporting the Better Together campaign. Will that help undecided
:23:45. > :23:49.voters? Or could it backfire? I don't know how it will play. I am
:23:50. > :23:53.still optimistic that Better Together will win out, but even if
:23:54. > :23:56.they do, there will be a recalibration of the United Kingdom.
:23:57. > :24:00.My message to Unionists in Northern Ireland is to not be afraid. We have
:24:01. > :24:03.a devolution process which is not working and there will be an
:24:04. > :24:12.opportunity to do things better. There will also be an opportunity to
:24:13. > :24:18.look at the grant of ?10 billion and it is still only ?10 billion. It is
:24:19. > :24:21.not sustainable for them to be so dependent on the Treasury and we
:24:22. > :24:26.could get new levers to rebalance the economy on the back of Scottish
:24:27. > :24:34.independence and we should not be afraid of that. We should go in and
:24:35. > :24:38.argue for change for the better. Whatever happens, does it bring the
:24:39. > :24:48.possibility of a border poll here. Are we likely to see it sooner
:24:49. > :24:52.rather than later? I'm not sure it does, but it provides a model for
:24:53. > :24:58.democratic discourse, democratic debate, in relation to the
:24:59. > :25:01.constitutional position. We see in Scotland a debate carried out in a
:25:02. > :25:07.very robust fashion, but a very decorous fashion where people
:25:08. > :25:12.entered into a civilised debate about something that was extremely
:25:13. > :25:17.important, which was the national sovereignty. That provides us with a
:25:18. > :25:23.model to get on with our politics on a more rational basis, and I think
:25:24. > :25:30.we owe the Scots a debt of gratitude for that. Let's take from the
:25:31. > :25:36.Scottish example and letters infuse that into our own politics here. Do
:25:37. > :25:42.you think David Clegg made a big mistake by leaving the TiVo max
:25:43. > :25:46.option off the ballot paper. That is what Alex Salmond wanted when it was
:25:47. > :25:49.first discussed and David Cameron was clear it was not going to
:25:50. > :25:53.happen, and now look what has happened. I guess time will tell
:25:54. > :25:57.whether it was a mistake or not, but I would point out that I heard a
:25:58. > :26:03.discussion about welfare reform and it was clear that Devo Max is being
:26:04. > :26:06.offered to Scotland and it is absolutely not being. More powers
:26:07. > :26:10.are being offered, but the understanding of Devo Max is
:26:11. > :26:14.everything short of foreign affairs and defence, that is not what is
:26:15. > :26:18.over. The reason that it did not appear on the ballot paper is that
:26:19. > :26:22.none of the Unionist parties, neither Labour nor the Liberal
:26:23. > :26:28.Democrats are interested in giving them Devo Max. It seems clear that
:26:29. > :26:32.if there is a no vote, particularly as narrow as it seems it would be
:26:33. > :26:35.that there would be significantly more powers devolved to Scotland,
:26:36. > :26:41.and that will have an impact on Northern Ireland and Wales but it is
:26:42. > :26:46.not Devo Max. Just briefly, you can see people here have a keen interest
:26:47. > :26:50.in what is happening in Scotland. 4 million people over there have the
:26:51. > :26:53.capacity to determine the future shape of the UK. How where are
:26:54. > :26:58.people in Scotland of the fact that everyone is looking on to see what
:26:59. > :27:03.the future of the UK will look like. 4 million out of 65 million cannot
:27:04. > :27:07.get to decide. I think the realisation of that was seen in the
:27:08. > :27:11.last week. There was a feeling that maybe the rest of the UK had not
:27:12. > :27:16.been that interested until there was the little jolt the poll that so --
:27:17. > :27:20.showed the Yes campaign ahead and we have seen a lot of interest from
:27:21. > :27:23.England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and people are aware. I'm not sure
:27:24. > :27:29.of the figures particularly heavy on how people are deciding to vote. One
:27:30. > :27:33.of the interesting aspects of the campaign to keep Scotland in the UK
:27:34. > :27:38.is that it has barely made an emotional argument to the United
:27:39. > :27:41.Kingdom. Their strategists would say that it is because if you are likely
:27:42. > :27:46.to be moved by the argument, you are already voting no, so they are
:27:47. > :27:49.focusing on the undecideds, but it's not really featured in the rhetoric.
:27:50. > :27:55.They have just relentlessly focused on the economics of the setup. Mike
:27:56. > :27:59.Nesbitt, what do you think is the best outcome for the Unionists next
:28:00. > :28:06.week? Even a no vote looks like a vote for big change. Maybe not Devo
:28:07. > :28:10.Max, but nonetheless change. And don't be afraid of it. I don't know
:28:11. > :28:13.if it will be a formal constitutional convention or a less
:28:14. > :28:19.formal constitutional conversation, but there will be changes. We need
:28:20. > :28:23.changes. We are the party who said, give us the power to set our own
:28:24. > :28:27.rate of corporation tax because we suffer having the land border with
:28:28. > :28:32.the Republic of Ireland. There is a lever where we can break parity and
:28:33. > :28:36.do our own thing. There are other levers, so economic levers, just to
:28:37. > :28:40.name one area where we could change things for the better, and redefine
:28:41. > :28:44.and recalibrate the union and don't be afraid of it, embrace it, because
:28:45. > :28:53.it will be good for all the people of Northern Ireland. You head still
:28:54. > :28:55.bet a little earlier on, but as an Irish nationalist, in all honesty
:28:56. > :29:00.would you be disappointed to see a yes vote next Thursday. I believe
:29:01. > :29:06.the people of Scotland should decide. I am asking you what you
:29:07. > :29:08.think. I have a romantic notion in relation to Scotland. I think the
:29:09. > :29:14.Scottish people should determine their own future and we should leave
:29:15. > :29:17.it up to them. I don't think it is helpful for people like myself to
:29:18. > :29:24.interfere in the process. Thank you all very much.
:29:25. > :29:27.Let's hear what our commentators have to say in our first programme
:29:28. > :29:29.Cathy Gormley-Heenan and Newton Emerson have been listening
:29:30. > :29:39.Nice to see you both. Newton, let's talk about storm on, is it fit for
:29:40. > :29:46.purpose? There is no alternative to meaningful power share. We are in
:29:47. > :29:55.the process of setting up mini super councils, so anything they negotiate
:29:56. > :29:58.will look fairly similar. What is going on is more than a budget
:29:59. > :30:03.negotiation, but to talk about the end of Stormont is overblown. Why do
:30:04. > :30:07.you think Peter Robinson chose to say what he said this week? I think
:30:08. > :30:16.it is true to form for Peter Robinson. He has veiled threats for
:30:17. > :30:19.about the close of the union which he did with the on the runs and the
:30:20. > :30:25.published letter in the covenant parade. He has done it again now, so
:30:26. > :30:30.these things tend to amount to not much and it sometimes seems he is
:30:31. > :30:33.the boy who cried wolf. You have an interesting theory, and I don't know
:30:34. > :30:36.if people at home will agree, but you don't think Peter Robinson meant
:30:37. > :30:45.it to be as dramatic as interpreted? I do think he meant the article to
:30:46. > :30:49.have the impact it had. There is the crisis down onto the DUP, whereas
:30:50. > :30:53.before it was a vague sense. He can't have meant that, and he said
:30:54. > :30:57.most of what he said in the article before, and when you look at the
:30:58. > :31:02.detail, it's not controversial. He might just have failed to realise
:31:03. > :31:06.the extent of it. No, I think he meant it. I think they were caught
:31:07. > :31:14.they were down a blind alley and he wanted to do something that would
:31:15. > :31:19.tie the structural problem with the issue of welfare reform. There are
:31:20. > :31:24.two issues. There are the structural problems as defined in the assembly
:31:25. > :31:26.and they have been looked at by the executive committee, and that was a
:31:27. > :31:31.very long consultation paper and nothing much came about. He is
:31:32. > :31:35.saying the same things again now. I suspect nothing much will come of it
:31:36. > :31:44.now either. Do you think much will come of it? He said himself quite a
:31:45. > :31:53.task. I think that the British government has made it quite clear
:31:54. > :31:55.that it wants and that has been the consistent position all along, and
:31:56. > :32:00.there will be talks, but how much can meaningfully come out of them?
:32:01. > :32:03.If the litmus test is passing welfare reform, and one of the two
:32:04. > :32:07.top parties doesn't want to do it, what form of meaningful
:32:08. > :32:10.power-sharing would allow it to go through? Let's talk about the
:32:11. > :32:15.Scottish referendum. Does it matter to people here? It manned -- matters
:32:16. > :32:20.to unionists and nationalists in different ways. The Unionists are
:32:21. > :32:24.looking at the constitutional question in Northern Ireland which
:32:25. > :32:27.Unionists think is a settled matter, but for the nationalists they want
:32:28. > :32:30.it to open the constitutional question of Northern Ireland in that
:32:31. > :32:35.we can have a border poll at some point down the road. There is a
:32:36. > :32:38.remarkably little comment about this in Northern Ireland, I think,
:32:39. > :32:41.because it's hard to get your head around the enormity of the country
:32:42. > :32:45.breaking up, but when you think what it would mean and the psychological
:32:46. > :32:51.blow to unionism, there would be no mechanism to reflect that. We would
:32:52. > :32:53.be in the same situation. It is the psychological blow that is
:32:54. > :32:57.important. What would British must look like? What would the flag look
:32:58. > :33:01.like question at all of the things Unionists hold dear would be up for
:33:02. > :33:06.discussion. Those other fascinating issues to discuss next week. Thanks
:33:07. > :33:07.both very much -- those are the fascinating issues.
:33:08. > :33:09.That's it from The View for this week.
:33:10. > :33:12.I'll be back with Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC1.
:33:13. > :33:15.There's no View next week - though we will be contributing to
:33:16. > :33:17.the coverage of the referendum result, live from
:33:18. > :33:21.And with just seven days to go, we'll leave you with another view
:33:22. > :33:35.on that Scottish question, courtesy of Hugh Jordan.
:33:36. > :33:43.# land of their parent Heather, Scotland the Brave. # land of the
:33:44. > :33:54.rotten diet, deep-fried food, why don't you try, heart attacks and
:33:55. > :34:02.football riots. Scotland the Brave. # the union has over soaked its
:34:03. > :34:09.feet. # Charlie the first got beheaded. # the second got seceded.
:34:10. > :34:17.# Charlie the third might not be needed. # Land where the shares are
:34:18. > :34:24.falling. We have independence falling. Scotland the Brave.
:34:25. > :34:28.Referendum day is nearing. All Scotch mist will soon be clearing.
:34:29. > :34:38.Don't believe all your hearing about Scotland the Brave. # # Tame the
:34:39. > :34:48.rampant lion. The union has over soaked its feet. # Jaidee the first
:34:49. > :34:55.he got beheaded. # Charlie the second he got seceded. Charlie the
:34:56. > :35:00.third will not be needed. In Scotland the Brave.