:00:00. > :00:08.This week, we've ten days to get a deal.
:00:09. > :00:12.So is it "Back to the Future" or has Stormont got a "Time Machine"?
:00:13. > :00:14.Tonight, we ask what is the real story around the
:00:15. > :00:38.Endgames, deadlines and soul-selling -
:00:39. > :00:43.both the DUP and Sinn Fein suggest progress at the talks.
:00:44. > :00:46.But are the Ulster Unionists, SDLP and Alliance outsiders?
:00:47. > :00:49.I'll be talking to three of those parties as we move into
:00:50. > :00:57.Also tonight, has the DUP's decision to resume business as usual
:00:58. > :01:04.after the report on paramilitaries upset their supporters?
:01:05. > :01:12.It has shocked me to the core of the fact that my political party has
:01:13. > :01:14.gone back into government. The people of Northern Ireland have
:01:15. > :01:17.welcomed the fact we are working behind our desks again.
:01:18. > :01:25.And back in Commentators' Corner - Paul McFadden and Alex Kane.
:01:26. > :01:28.Well, you know it's Halloween when one party accuses the other
:01:29. > :01:33.That's just one of the many insults flying round the halls of Stormont
:01:34. > :01:37.a deal does now look more likely than ever.
:01:38. > :01:44.You just need to look at who's trading the insults.
:01:45. > :01:54.There are those who are sitting on the sidelines, we know who they are,
:01:55. > :02:01.they are the whingers, the wreckers, the political snipers, who
:02:02. > :02:05.look for failure, who hope for failure, so that they might
:02:06. > :02:14.personally, or from a party point of view, benefit. It will not benefit
:02:15. > :02:18.in a birdie if, in a grand eyes and themselves, they destroy our process
:02:19. > :02:22.here in Northern Ireland. -- it will not benefit in a birdie. There are
:02:23. > :02:28.people who think they will have some sort of advantage if the process
:02:29. > :02:31.breaks down, and to use a recently quoted phrase, they are on the wrong
:02:32. > :02:37.side of history to bring this process down. Some parties cannot
:02:38. > :02:41.get out of the door quick enough to say something negatively feeding
:02:42. > :02:46.into what we are trying to do. We haven't done that. I don't think the
:02:47. > :02:51.DUP have done that. But I think other parties have done that. That
:02:52. > :02:56.is not conducive to getting a good outcome. He used the word snipers,
:02:57. > :03:01.political snipers, this from a man whose party stood one-mile down
:03:02. > :03:07.Prince of Wales Avenue, at the far side of the barriers, crying traitor
:03:08. > :03:11.at the party who got these institutions up and running. And are
:03:12. > :03:17.fighting hard to keep them up and running and doing so in the five
:03:18. > :03:18.party talks at Stormont House, not the 2-party carbuncle he is engaged
:03:19. > :03:21.in at the castle. So the battle lines look
:03:22. > :03:23.well and truly drawn Joining us tonight,
:03:24. > :03:26.Simon Hamilton of the DUP, Alasdair McDonnell,
:03:27. > :03:27.leader of the SDLP, and Stephen Farry
:03:28. > :03:38.of the Alliance Party. We asked Sinn Fein and the two take
:03:39. > :03:43.part, but they declined. Simon Hamilton, are you speaking with one
:03:44. > :03:48.voice with Sinn Fein? What we are trying to do and continue to do is
:03:49. > :03:52.to save Stormont. We want to see a deal that saves devolution to get
:03:53. > :04:01.Stormont delivering again for people in Northern Ireland. At any price?
:04:02. > :04:06.Absolutely not, serious issues need to be dealt with around paramilitary
:04:07. > :04:11.organisations, which caused this current crisis, and the need for
:04:12. > :04:16.talks, but the practical problem around our budget and welfare reform
:04:17. > :04:20.and to get those issues dealt with and get stable finances. A range of
:04:21. > :04:24.issues we need to deal with to rescue devolution, get it delivering
:04:25. > :04:28.for the people of Northern Ireland, and even after difficult weeks and
:04:29. > :04:34.months the message to my party and I am sure others is, as imperfect the
:04:35. > :04:41.system is, people won't Stormont there and delivering, and we wanted
:04:42. > :04:46.to use this process to improve the system, so that it can deliver for
:04:47. > :04:52.people. Have you moved on from the paramilitary issue? Not moved on in
:04:53. > :04:56.the sense of revolving the issue. We had an assessment last week which
:04:57. > :05:01.starkly painted the extent of the problem we have, issues we have to
:05:02. > :05:08.dissolve in the talks process, and we are intensively engaging in that
:05:09. > :05:11.process, but equally engaging in budget and welfare, to get finances
:05:12. > :05:16.back on to a stable footing to release some resources into
:05:17. > :05:20.front-line services, not least my department, the Department of
:05:21. > :05:26.Health. There has been a dramatic shift in language, back in July,
:05:27. > :05:29.your party leader accused Sinn Fein of pathetic posturing and spinning,
:05:30. > :05:34.get out of government if you don't have the guts to govern, but today
:05:35. > :05:40.seeing the tripped over the detail of welfare reform. Complete shift!
:05:41. > :05:45.We have worked hard and had difficult times over the last weeks
:05:46. > :05:50.and months, precipitated by the killing of Kevin McGuigan, and the
:05:51. > :05:54.finger pointed at the provisional IRA, and that has been difficult and
:05:55. > :05:59.tricky and will remain so, but we have worked with very hard with Sinn
:06:00. > :06:04.Fein, absolutely, but other parties as well. We will come back to
:06:05. > :06:08.welfare reform, but Alistair MacDonald, how close to you think we
:06:09. > :06:14.are to a deal? -- Alastair McDonnell. There seems to be a deal
:06:15. > :06:20.in the offing. The party seemed to be behind-the-scenes, the rest of us
:06:21. > :06:24.working robustly and honestly in engagement at Stormont House. There
:06:25. > :06:28.was a lot of dancing around in circles over the last five or six
:06:29. > :06:36.weeks but we seem to have some romancing now. Where does that leave
:06:37. > :06:39.the SDLP? That we have a robust leak representing the public interest,
:06:40. > :06:43.looking after victims and survivors, the people on the margins
:06:44. > :06:53.of society, putting the case for honesty and the nasty. -- honesty
:06:54. > :06:57.and decency. Quite honestly when things are going well, they try to
:06:58. > :07:00.take the credit and when things get difficult they try to dump the blame
:07:01. > :07:06.on the rest of us. What about the issue of legacy? We
:07:07. > :07:12.did not expect that to trip up the talks, can you sign up to the
:07:13. > :07:17.legislation? At the minute, it is weak and flawed, the bill produced
:07:18. > :07:22.is not fit for purpose, there are some bits that are useful, but it
:07:23. > :07:31.will not provide for the needs, not provide truth and justice for
:07:32. > :07:35.victims and survivors. Why not? It is wrapped up in national security,
:07:36. > :07:41.anything of contention, and the Secretary of State could rule things
:07:42. > :07:45.out, and there are some issues in which a stake knife was involved in,
:07:46. > :07:51.or alleged, and that will rule international security. Was .37 of
:07:52. > :07:54.the Stormont House agreement, but that not say that Westminster hat
:07:55. > :08:04.would have some powers over national security? There is powers and there
:08:05. > :08:10.is powers. We need the Historical Investigations Unit to work, needed
:08:11. > :08:14.it to be independence, and we need the overall umbrella body to be set
:08:15. > :08:19.in statute so that basically it has a meaningful role and for once and
:08:20. > :08:24.for ever we will sort out the past as the victims and be able to leave
:08:25. > :08:31.it behind and satisfied that truth and justice is provided. Is this a
:08:32. > :08:35.red line issue for you? It is an issue we will fight and ensure we
:08:36. > :08:39.get satisfaction and it comes out right and we will be faking it right
:08:40. > :08:46.to the floor of Westminster or anywhere else we can. Stephen Farry,
:08:47. > :08:51.is it a 3 party deal as has been suggested, yourselves, DUP and Sinn
:08:52. > :08:56.Fein? Certainly no deal yet, still some way to go, some major
:08:57. > :09:04.differences between the parties on a range of different issues. But we
:09:05. > :09:07.are keen to caution against what will be getting to the elections
:09:08. > :09:11.next spring, we have had crisis politics over the last number of
:09:12. > :09:17.years, deteriorating relationships, too much of the mutual veto, missing
:09:18. > :09:24.opportunities, not taking important decisions. People want to see a real
:09:25. > :09:27.restart at Stormont, not just saving Stormont, is but a fresh start,
:09:28. > :09:33.building new relationships and making sure we have a budget that
:09:34. > :09:37.can tackle all the issues out there, and we can take advantage of
:09:38. > :09:41.opportunities that come our way. Will you sell your soul for power as
:09:42. > :09:46.Mike Nesbitt suggested the Alliance Party was doing? We represent the
:09:47. > :09:50.people of Northern Ireland who have given as a mandate and act
:09:51. > :09:55.responsibly, representing not just the people who voted for us but the
:09:56. > :10:00.entire community and it is important the look and try to build something
:10:01. > :10:06.in Northern Ireland. Mike Nesbitt over the past month has been
:10:07. > :10:12.destructive. He was seeking to bring the whole thing down. He said it was
:10:13. > :10:17.a point of principle. What a point of principle was it? He spoke about
:10:18. > :10:22.what Republicans are doing, but he has been happy to share platforms
:10:23. > :10:26.with Loyalists, very little sign of principle in terms of what he has
:10:27. > :10:31.said and frankly we have seen no evidence of any ideas from their
:10:32. > :10:34.party over the past month, no alternative approach to build
:10:35. > :10:40.stability, and people are rightly sceptical about what the party is up
:10:41. > :10:44.to. Talking about welfare reform, then, will it be implemented in the
:10:45. > :10:48.way suggested in the Stormont House agreement? This issue of welfare
:10:49. > :10:55.reform has plagued Stormont for the last two years and more, and we have
:10:56. > :10:57.been losing millions and millions of pounds in welfare reform penalties
:10:58. > :11:02.because we have not passed legislation. You hope those will be
:11:03. > :11:06.wiped out, part of the financial deal you will go to the British
:11:07. > :11:12.government with? We have a meeting this week amongst the parties about
:11:13. > :11:18.finances and getting finances sustainable, which involves welfare
:11:19. > :11:21.reform, and those penalties, we are losing ?140 million this year, which
:11:22. > :11:25.could be spent on health and reducing waiting lists and other
:11:26. > :11:32.departments. All five parties on agreement? There is work going on in
:11:33. > :11:36.terms of welfare reform and issues around finances, because it is
:11:37. > :11:42.incredibly important and Stephen made the point about looking at the
:11:43. > :11:46.longer term in terms of finances. But your party was clear about
:11:47. > :11:50.welfare reform throughout this year and yet there seems to be a shift in
:11:51. > :11:55.language again from Peter Robinson, talking about tax credits,
:11:56. > :12:00.households affected, is tax credits and cuts to get part of the deal?
:12:01. > :12:06.You try and offer compensation for people? We need welfare reform
:12:07. > :12:10.legislation to pass and it is the failure of the SDLP and Sinn Fein to
:12:11. > :12:16.not live up to their commitments that has given us these financial
:12:17. > :12:21.problems and on tax credits this has developed over the past couple of
:12:22. > :12:24.months and EU beef at once to support hard-working people and
:12:25. > :12:36.families. -- and the DUP wants to support. Alastair McDonnell, is that
:12:37. > :12:44.how you see it? Simon Hamilton, talking about living up to
:12:45. > :12:56.responsibilities, he has been talked about the SDLP... The SDLP stuck a
:12:57. > :13:01.deal at Stormont House, the bill was flawed, we try to amend that, and
:13:02. > :13:07.the DUP in the stuff and I can go through some things if you want to
:13:08. > :13:11.do. You signed up too well for -- signed up to welfare reform and then
:13:12. > :13:18.walked away. Things like the Bedroom Tax, things like penalties, somebody
:13:19. > :13:26.sent to a job where they could not take it, and losing money for 13
:13:27. > :13:31.months. And will those mitigating factors, will be still get those on
:13:32. > :13:35.welfare reform? Some of the mitigating factors were avoided, we
:13:36. > :13:39.needed to find during the bill and are still prepared to fine tune all
:13:40. > :13:44.of that. There are people living on the street, I am finding people at
:13:45. > :13:48.my office some mornings lying in the street, we will not have a situation
:13:49. > :13:53.where people are sleeping rough and we need to avoid that and Simon and
:13:54. > :13:59.others need to live up to it that welfare reform, we are in favour of
:14:00. > :14:04.it, but not in favour of slash and burn reform and we are not going
:14:05. > :14:08.there. Stephen Farry, is there optimism and people on benefits
:14:09. > :14:14.could be optimistic that there will be a better deal for them?
:14:15. > :14:20.We have a deal already in terms of the current agreement. If we have a
:14:21. > :14:25.singular focus around transport payment and welfare in itself we
:14:26. > :14:30.miss a large part of the picture. We need to invest in skills to give
:14:31. > :14:35.people opportunities and access to employment and move out of welfare.
:14:36. > :14:39.We should also bear in mind that the most vulnerable in society most on
:14:40. > :14:43.public services. If we take more money out of our public spending to
:14:44. > :14:49.invest in welfare we disproportionately unbalance the
:14:50. > :14:52.economy and end up hurting people even more. It is important we are
:14:53. > :15:01.responsible and balanced in the approach. Is it possible Westminster
:15:02. > :15:05.will implement the welfare reform? If we do not, the government will
:15:06. > :15:13.step in and do that. Would you be happy to hand it over? We want
:15:14. > :15:18.welfare legislation passed. We just want to see it past because we want
:15:19. > :15:25.to get it dealt with. The deal that was done at Stormont, Sinn Fein and
:15:26. > :15:27.the SDLP walked away with the most generous welfare reform bill in all
:15:28. > :15:32.of the United Kingdom. We want that deal we did implemented. We want
:15:33. > :15:36.protection and flexible to that we negotiated and we have set money
:15:37. > :15:41.aside and lamented money in Northern Ireland and that is harming people
:15:42. > :15:46.and it is acting as a disincentive to people that have no income but
:15:47. > :15:52.are striving and trying their best. Can we do it in ten days? Time is
:15:53. > :15:56.short in terms of getting a deal. The impact of not moving forward is
:15:57. > :16:01.starting to hit departments. We need a deal quickly to release finance
:16:02. > :16:07.into health and other departments. The point is this, the welfare deal
:16:08. > :16:12.can be done but all it requires is those flaws in the bill to be fixed.
:16:13. > :16:16.We put down a number of amendments. Most of them are cost neutral. They
:16:17. > :16:22.would not cost extra money. All they had to do was accept them. You did
:16:23. > :16:27.not get an agreement. They were arrogant and used a petition to bin
:16:28. > :16:34.them. You agreed and you tried to unpack it. The bill that was
:16:35. > :16:38.produced was flawed. It fell short. You have caused the problems. We are
:16:39. > :16:46.entitled to protect the vulnerable in our society. We will continue to
:16:47. > :16:50.do that. Your absence of and down has minister harms the Welsh
:16:51. > :16:56.service. Why do we need a minister at all? -- health service. The
:16:57. > :17:01.biggest thing that has harmed the health service in the last couple of
:17:02. > :17:07.years is losing money... Are you saying money is taken out of the
:17:08. > :17:09.health service? How much? We have lost 200 million because of welfare
:17:10. > :17:12.reform bill stop it could be going into front-line health, employment,
:17:13. > :17:17.learning, jobs will stop other departments as well. Helping people
:17:18. > :17:22.that of honourable, that is what you have been doing by not living up to
:17:23. > :17:29.your responsible Aziz. -- not helping the vulnerable. Can a deal
:17:30. > :17:33.be done in ten days? It is compounded by the tax credit and all
:17:34. > :17:36.of the rest of it and that is a different story. There are
:17:37. > :17:43.honourable and poor in the society and it has hammered them. Do you
:17:44. > :17:47.think it can be done? Whether it is a sustainable deal, that remains to
:17:48. > :17:55.be seen. It can be done. Can you win? I am quite confident I can win.
:17:56. > :18:00.I have been around the country and the majority, the members, delegates
:18:01. > :18:04.in the party are supporting me. The BBC understands Seamus Mallon will
:18:05. > :18:11.tomorrow endorse your opponent. I will wait and see. I am not aware of
:18:12. > :18:18.that. Well, we are aware of that. Is that damaging for you? I want to do
:18:19. > :18:21.that job. He is a member of the party and entitled to his opinion.
:18:22. > :18:28.We have 300 other odd delegates without -- with opinions. Everybody
:18:29. > :18:33.that has ever held a ministerial position is backing your opponent.
:18:34. > :18:38.That is not true. How can you continue to lead when so many senior
:18:39. > :18:43.members of the party... I have worked and renewed the party and
:18:44. > :18:46.brought in 40% of the party, new councillors in the last 18 months
:18:47. > :18:54.and I go forward into the election with 60% of delegates knew. 50% of
:18:55. > :18:59.the SDLP has turned around, some of them four years ago. A new party is
:19:00. > :19:05.evolving and it is quite normal. I will work and I will continue and do
:19:06. > :19:12.the job I was elected to do... Thank you.
:19:13. > :19:18.They were very scathing about you not having respect for her position
:19:19. > :19:22.and not rescheduling an appointment and we have a damning reports today.
:19:23. > :19:30.I do not think it is fair criticism. I could not meet her. She
:19:31. > :19:33.said she did not reschedule. She has left her job today. It would have
:19:34. > :19:39.been very difficult to arrange it at such short notice. I know it is very
:19:40. > :19:42.important. Thousands of people in Northern Ireland are depending on
:19:43. > :19:46.this. I am disappointed in the report that the Commissioner
:19:47. > :19:52.launched today. I did not receive it until half past four and yet the BBC
:19:53. > :19:56.at it from yesterday. I think that is bad form and unprofessional but I
:19:57. > :19:58.will look at the content. It will feed into the review... Thanks Harry
:19:59. > :20:01.much indeed. Now, that stand-off within unionism
:20:02. > :20:04.that we've just been talking about really became a battle
:20:05. > :20:06.when the DUP last week The First Minister, Peter Robinson,
:20:07. > :20:09.said the report on paramilitaries confirmed that the
:20:10. > :20:12.parties in government were committed to peaceful means, but controversy
:20:13. > :20:14.continues over the report's comments So how will the DUP strategy
:20:15. > :20:18.be viewed by the electorate? Our Political Correspondent Stephen
:20:19. > :20:40.Walker has been investigating. The American President Ronald Reagan
:20:41. > :20:47.famously said in politics, if you In recent weeks, the DUP have
:20:48. > :20:51.been doing a lot of explaining. And after last week's
:20:52. > :21:05.paramilitary report, why has the Peter Gibson is married
:21:06. > :21:08.with two children. His world changed
:21:09. > :21:09.in October 1993 when In 1998, Peter Gibson voted no to
:21:10. > :21:20.the Good Friday Agreement and, since then, he has backed the DUP.
:21:21. > :21:23.Now he can't understand why they They like power, so I think they
:21:24. > :21:30.will always find wriggle room to They have sold out
:21:31. > :21:37.their ideals what they promised Anything that will keep them
:21:38. > :21:43.in power, they will go with. After recent news, the publication
:21:44. > :21:50.of the report into paramilitary Some suggest that, within the DUP,
:21:51. > :22:04.there is confusion I think there is much head
:22:05. > :22:09.scratching and bewilderment within the DUP as to why they have gone
:22:10. > :22:12.back into the Executive on the basis of a report which suggests
:22:13. > :22:15.the Provisional IRA is not only I think this is a gift for the
:22:16. > :22:24.Ulster Unionist Party ,which has The Ulster Unionist Party has said
:22:25. > :22:29.we are out of the Executive and we are staying out until we get
:22:30. > :22:31.clearance on this matter. The issue of guns
:22:32. > :22:34.and government is not new. Back in 1999,
:22:35. > :22:36.David Trimble faced much opposition when he agreed to form an Executive
:22:37. > :22:43.without IRA decommissioning. May God forgive them for what
:22:44. > :22:46.they have just done to Ulster. May God forgive them,
:22:47. > :22:49.because I won't and neither will May God forgive them
:22:50. > :22:56.for what they have done. 17 years on, Ruth Patterson is now
:22:57. > :22:58.a DUP councillor. Today, it is not the UUP she is
:22:59. > :23:01.critical of, but her own party. She thinks the decision of DUP
:23:02. > :23:03.ministers to resign and then be reappointed made
:23:04. > :23:06.Stormont a laughing stock. Some
:23:07. > :23:08.of the comments that I have received from my own constituents from
:23:09. > :23:10.relatives from people up round the But the DUP leadership insist that,
:23:11. > :23:26.without rolling resignations, I was one of the people that said it
:23:27. > :23:33.was very messy, it was not pretty. But as I said, we did not
:23:34. > :23:36.want to be in that position. We found ourselves in that position,
:23:37. > :23:39.because of events that happened and We believe we did take the right way
:23:40. > :23:45.forward now we are dealing with the big issues in front of us
:23:46. > :23:50.which are paramilitary issues. Ruth Patterson also says that her
:23:51. > :23:53.party was wrong to return to It has shocked me to the core,
:23:54. > :23:56.in fact, that my political party has gone back
:23:57. > :24:02.into government with Sinn Fein. You know, we did hound David Trimble
:24:03. > :24:05.on those exact same issues and I can remember way back in 2000,
:24:06. > :24:15.2001, when I was working for Peter Robinson, and we went down
:24:16. > :24:18.and had a protest outside Ulster actually do that if we ourselves are
:24:19. > :24:35.prepared to go into government. But Arlene Foster argues that
:24:36. > :24:47.the DUP called it right. We believe it was the right
:24:48. > :24:52.decision. We are working behind our desks again. Nobody wanted to be in
:24:53. > :24:55.that position. We had to take that decision because of what had
:24:56. > :25:00.happened and the arrest of a senior member of Sinn Fein at a time when
:25:01. > :25:01.we were told the leadership were committed to exclusively peaceful
:25:02. > :25:05.means. Ruth Patterson insists her
:25:06. > :25:09.view is shared by others. My people my loyalist protestant
:25:10. > :25:12.people are crying out like babes in the wilderness
:25:13. > :25:17.for leadership and honesty. Certainly, at this moment in time,
:25:18. > :25:24.it is a conscience issue. But I will be thinking long
:25:25. > :25:31.and hard about my future about What makes Ruth Patterson's comments
:25:32. > :25:45.worth noting is the fact that people like her rarely
:25:46. > :25:54.criticise the party in public. I have spoken to a number of
:25:55. > :25:57.DUP MLAs who admit that the party has taken some flak
:25:58. > :26:00.in recent weeks and may have even But they all insist their tactics
:26:01. > :26:04.of recent weeks were necessary to The political landscape has changed
:26:05. > :26:11.since The Good Friday Agreement But 17 years on, the issue of guns
:26:12. > :26:23.and government hasn't gone away. # what goes around comes back
:26:24. > :26:28.around. The stalemate over welfare reform
:26:29. > :26:30.may have grabbed the headlines, but the lack of agreement over plans
:26:31. > :26:34.to deal with the past were also back Sinn Fein said they could not sign
:26:35. > :26:38.up to proposed legislation on legacy issues having met victims
:26:39. > :26:41.groups who said the government had rolled back on commitments made
:26:42. > :26:43.in the Stormont House Agreement. I'm joined now by former vice
:26:44. > :26:47.chairman of the policing board Denis Bradley and Professor John
:26:48. > :26:58.Brewer from Queens University. This idea of the Secretary of State
:26:59. > :27:03.having a final say and using national security as a reason for
:27:04. > :27:07.not disclosing sensitive information, it has become a major
:27:08. > :27:14.issue. How big do you think it is? I think it is massive. I do not think
:27:15. > :27:19.the two concept can be on one page. I do not think it will work. If I
:27:20. > :27:22.advised of the British government at the moment I would advise them to
:27:23. > :27:30.take it off the page. It is utterly unnecessary. For individuals and the
:27:31. > :27:32.broader community, the Convention of human rights, the European
:27:33. > :27:36.Convention, there is a lot of protection and no need to have the
:27:37. > :27:41.words national security on the table. It creates all kinds of
:27:42. > :27:46.suspicion and bad feeling. There is a possibility of making it
:27:47. > :27:50.unworkable and some good work is being done and it is making it
:27:51. > :27:56.unworkable and I do not understand why they are allowing this to fester
:27:57. > :28:02.and I cannot understand... Everybody else is targeting red lines and I am
:28:03. > :28:03.not sure that this is a red line. Was it not in the Stormont House
:28:04. > :28:18.Agreement? That agreement was not a finished
:28:19. > :28:23.document and not a finished concept. But in terms of broad principles? I
:28:24. > :28:29.think the people fighting this have been fighting it for years, probably
:28:30. > :28:35.the SDLP, because the SDLP have the right in my opinion, not just them
:28:36. > :28:38.but particularly then, to say to the British and Irish government and
:28:39. > :28:45.Sinn Fein and everybody else that, you cannot solve the past by
:28:46. > :28:49.actually excluding for making one of the groups more important than the
:28:50. > :28:55.other and you can't make the British government more important than,
:28:56. > :28:59.say, the nationalist Unionist people, all are partners in
:29:00. > :29:03.responsibility and in the responsibility to bring this to a
:29:04. > :29:08.conclusion and get it to a place where some healing can take place.
:29:09. > :29:13.John Brewer, how much of an issue is this likely to be for Unionists? I
:29:14. > :29:24.suspect a large issue for the Unionists, but I have to say that
:29:25. > :29:28.I've used the metaphor for Northern Ireland's peace process that we are
:29:29. > :29:34.driving the peace process forward by looking only in the rear-view
:29:35. > :29:38.mirror. I think we need to start to set the past in the context of the
:29:39. > :29:43.future and one of the things that is most important... But is that not
:29:44. > :29:47.difficult for people, the crux of the issue is so many things
:29:48. > :29:53.unresolved that we can't move forward until they are resolved? I
:29:54. > :29:58.think the foundation of any shared future, for us to begin to learn to
:29:59. > :30:12.live together, is that the future must be based on truth and justice.
:30:13. > :30:15.No justice, for me, has to be blind. -- now, justice for me. One either
:30:16. > :30:23.justice is no basis for the future by that, I mean one party in command
:30:24. > :30:29.of what is disclosed and what is revealed. I believe that, if truth
:30:30. > :30:33.recovery process is to be genuine, it needs to meet the obligation of
:30:34. > :30:37.victims. If it is to be the foundation of a shared future, I
:30:38. > :30:43.think everybody has to engage in acknowledgement, that includes Sinn
:30:44. > :30:47.Fein, but also includes the government. Denis Bradley, how do
:30:48. > :30:51.you think this will play out? The British government has to accept
:30:52. > :30:55.they cannot have this and there are well-established roots, through the
:30:56. > :31:00.judiciary, to make decisions about whether something is in the interest
:31:01. > :31:05.of national security or not? I don't think anything should be in the
:31:06. > :31:11.interests of national security, in the interests of the rights and the
:31:12. > :31:15.welfare of people, that is wholly different and contained within the
:31:16. > :31:21.convention, the European Convention, and within natural law. And
:31:22. > :31:24.therefore I cannot understand when national security is put on the
:31:25. > :31:28.table, I think the British will roll back on this, people have to, the
:31:29. > :31:33.Irish government should play an active part in the sense they should
:31:34. > :31:38.help them to roll back on this, and I have been one of the people in
:31:39. > :31:41.Northern Ireland who have seen what is coming out around national
:31:42. > :31:46.security and there's nothing there that is not already within the
:31:47. > :31:51.imagination of the people of Northern Ireland, and unionism has
:31:52. > :31:56.nothing to fear from it, and brought nationalism nor republicanism. If it
:31:57. > :32:00.comes on the table formally, it will actually be a healing process and
:32:01. > :32:06.there is no need, apart from looking after the rights of individuals,
:32:07. > :32:10.there is no need to hide the truth. John Brewer, obviously Republicans
:32:11. > :32:15.will have to be as open in terms of disclosing sensitive that you feel?
:32:16. > :32:20.Absolutely! The moral thrust of Jerry Kelly's comments I think we'd
:32:21. > :32:24.be reinforced and Sinn Fein were to engage in the same of sort
:32:25. > :32:28.acknowledgement that they are requiring of the British government,
:32:29. > :32:33.clearly, but coming back to my point, no one is the arbiter of the
:32:34. > :32:39.future, it is owned by everybody, and you cannot have one person, one
:32:40. > :32:45.party, one constituency, in control of what justice and truth means.
:32:46. > :32:48.John Brewer and Denis Bradley, thank you both very much indeed.
:32:49. > :32:50.With just days, apparently, to save Stormont,
:32:51. > :32:52.it makes the politicians sound a bit James Bond -
:32:53. > :32:54.something they'd no doubt love to hear
:32:55. > :32:56.and a theme we'll be developing in a few minutes.
:32:57. > :33:00.But first, let's go to our very own Bond icons Blofeld
:33:01. > :33:03.and Goldfinger in Commentators' Corner Alex Kane and aul McFadden.
:33:04. > :33:09.and Goldfinger in Commentators' Corner Alex Kane and Paul McFadden.
:33:10. > :33:18.So, Alex, will ideally be done? Look into the crystal ball. I looked into
:33:19. > :33:23.that and they need this deal. It does not matter what the DUP, SDLP,
:33:24. > :33:32.the Alliance Party says, they are not necessary for this deal, if the
:33:33. > :33:36.Sinn Fein and DUP are up for this, the deal will be done. Tax credits
:33:37. > :33:42.will be tied in, money will be made available. Theresa Villiers has not
:33:43. > :33:50.been ruling out playing about with money. They are up for it. It will
:33:51. > :33:55.be done. Paul McFadden, in terms of Unionism, where does this leave Mike
:33:56. > :34:00.Nesbitt? To use his own line, and appropriated by Peter Robinson
:34:01. > :34:03.today, he may find himself on the wrong side of history, but an
:34:04. > :34:09.election have been through next year, and it will be interesting
:34:10. > :34:13.houses hearty does in terms of this stands on what he calls a principled
:34:14. > :34:18.issue. Talking about the likelihood of a deal, and I believe with
:34:19. > :34:24.Alastair McDonnell that one is in the offing, but there could be
:34:25. > :34:28.something on the issue of welfare reform. Paramilitaries, I am not
:34:29. > :34:32.sure how that will find out. That seems to have gone to the side.
:34:33. > :34:39.Maybe tax credits will give them some cover? I don't know. Sinn Fein
:34:40. > :34:44.has its eye on political power in the south and forcing some Alliance
:34:45. > :34:48.with anti-austerity parties in the Republic. I wonder if events in the
:34:49. > :34:57.North will influence that. I guess it might be difficult. -- legacy
:34:58. > :35:03.might be difficult. This is about saving Stormont for the DUP and Sinn
:35:04. > :35:09.Fein, and Rita Robinson looked fed up and angry with Nesbitt. -- and
:35:10. > :35:12.Peter Robinson. This was like David Trimble talking about people
:35:13. > :35:19.whingeing on the sidelines with no alternatives. It is extraordinary,
:35:20. > :35:26.and Robinson is clearly, baby because of Halloween, he is spooked
:35:27. > :35:30.by Mike Nesbitt, because Mike Nesbitt has caught those people who
:35:31. > :35:36.may be thinking about switching back from the DUP. I don't think the
:35:37. > :35:42.British government is particularly keen to have to step in into the
:35:43. > :35:48.affair is here in the North. Would it help if they implemented welfare
:35:49. > :35:53.reform? I don't think so, it may be disastrous. That's almost as the end
:35:54. > :35:57.of the process as far as nationalist and republican parties would be
:35:58. > :36:04.concerned and would be problematic. Pursuing the James Bond thing, not
:36:05. > :36:09.talking about one spectre, but two spectres at the feast, the Ulster
:36:10. > :36:13.Unionist Party and Sinn Fein, wondering why they did not appeared
:36:14. > :36:19.on the programme. They turned down the invitation. Having complained
:36:20. > :36:23.that the DUP and Sinn Fein were doing side deals and they would stay
:36:24. > :36:27.in talks to fight their corner and, given the chance to fight their
:36:28. > :36:38.corner, they chose not to do that. I find that order. Alastair McDonnell
:36:39. > :36:46.has brushed off Seamus Mallon's support for Colum Eastwood. Not
:36:47. > :36:50.surprising, anyone would have this sense that Seamus Mallon was moving
:36:51. > :36:56.away from Alastair McDonnell, but if the BBC is right, he is moving in
:36:57. > :37:01.the direction of Colum Eastwood, but a number of heavy hitters in the
:37:02. > :37:06.SDLP have stood up against him. He has done a lot to rejuvenate the
:37:07. > :37:12.SDLP, and very difficult to lead his party into the next election given
:37:13. > :37:16.the criticism. Someone used the comparison that Margaret Thatcher
:37:17. > :37:20.won the leadership vote but lost the confidence of the party, will it be
:37:21. > :37:28.difficult for him to continue to lead? My view is his opponents would
:37:29. > :37:33.have a field day with criticisms. It is very difficult. It is worth
:37:34. > :37:39.saying that a lot of people backing Colum Eastwood are not natural
:37:40. > :37:44.supporters of them, they are just against Alastair McDonnell, and
:37:45. > :37:48.ironic that the old guard back you, the old people of the party backing
:37:49. > :37:52.this young fellow, but he needs young people backing him, because if
:37:53. > :37:57.you has Seamus Mallon, people will think they are in the background
:37:58. > :38:02.helping, just as bad an image as Alastair McDonnell trying to escape
:38:03. > :38:07.it, but him saying he is trying to rejuvenate the party... But I am
:38:08. > :38:09.disappointed that you did not where it your tuxedos tonight.
:38:10. > :38:11.That's it from The View for this week.
:38:12. > :38:14.Mark will be back for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC One.
:38:15. > :38:44.And talking of returning super stars, a certain movie icon was
:38:45. > :38:49.# I wish I was James Bond just for the day... #