:00:00. > :00:00.On the eve of voting in the SDLP leadership contest,
:00:00. > :00:07.we'll hear from Alasdair McDonnell and Colum Eastwood on steering
:00:08. > :00:33.Tonight, the big political bruiser of the SDLP is about to step
:00:34. > :00:45.He needs the time to finish the work he has started. It is losing us
:00:46. > :00:48.votes. Alasdair McDonnell is live
:00:49. > :00:50.in the studio tonight, less than 24 hours before
:00:51. > :00:52.the poll opens on his leadership. His challenger, Colum Eastwood,
:00:53. > :00:55.is in the north-west for us. Will the battle for votes go
:00:56. > :00:59.down to the wire? Also tonight,
:01:00. > :01:02.that controversy over the unplanned rendition of the national anthem
:01:03. > :01:04.at a Stormont Remembrance ceremony. I'll be talking to
:01:05. > :01:10.the man who struck the first note. And tuning up for us
:01:11. > :01:12.in Commentators' Corner this week are Patricia MacBride and
:01:13. > :01:17.Newton Emerson. All parties have their squabbles,
:01:18. > :01:22.but for quite some time now, the SDLP and in-fighting have been
:01:23. > :01:23.synonymous. Against a background of dire
:01:24. > :01:26.predictions for next May's Assembly election, a direct challenge has
:01:27. > :01:29.been launched against the current We'll hear from the Foyle MLA,
:01:30. > :01:36.Colum Eastwood, on why he thinks he But before that, in the first
:01:37. > :01:41.of two films about the party, Gareth Gordon looks at how McDonnell
:01:42. > :01:52.loyalists are circling the wagons. From the off, Alasdair McDonnell did
:01:53. > :01:58.not appear to relish his time in the spotlight. Could somebody turn off
:01:59. > :02:01.the lights, please? As far as Alasdair McDonnell and his
:02:02. > :02:06.supporters are concerned, he was elected to do a job and that job is
:02:07. > :02:11.not finished. A renewal does not happen overnight. When he took his
:02:12. > :02:16.mandate in 2011, he put together a plan to rebuild. He needed to
:02:17. > :02:22.rebuild at grassroots, branches, bring new people forward. In the
:02:23. > :02:29.election in 2014, we saw those new candidates coming forward and
:02:30. > :02:32.particular we saw women. The divisions in the SDLP have if
:02:33. > :02:39.anything got worse and nowhere are they as bad as here. Daniel has
:02:40. > :02:43.become a poster boy for Alasdair McDonnell's new brand of SDLP.
:02:44. > :02:53.Plucked from obscure at you, the 27-year-old will be the party's only
:02:54. > :02:56.candidate in West Tyrone. There is a mixed range of views on the party
:02:57. > :03:01.and in West Tyrone, the majority of the membership which has troubled in
:03:02. > :03:04.the last four years in the constituency has voted for me as the
:03:05. > :03:11.sole candidate. There may be a change at a later date. We will deal
:03:12. > :03:13.with that then. I think it is the wrong time for the leadership
:03:14. > :03:19.challenge but regardless of the result this weekend, I will be
:03:20. > :03:23.working tightly with the leader to ensure the best result is delivered
:03:24. > :03:26.for the constituency. A leaked internal report says the SDLP could
:03:27. > :03:32.lose up to five assembly seats. Daniel's message is, do not panic.
:03:33. > :03:36.He has followed through with a lot of the changes he has promised. If
:03:37. > :03:42.he is about the time to do that beyond the weekend, we will see a
:03:43. > :03:45.lot of benefits. This constituency, we have all seen benefits of the
:03:46. > :03:50.work he has put in. We have seen growth and increases. Alasdair
:03:51. > :03:54.McDonnell's supporters say that should he win on Saturday, he
:03:55. > :04:02.himself will know when it is time to go. He is not going to hold on
:04:03. > :04:11.forever. He realises that. He will go to plot his exit in time. Can he
:04:12. > :04:20.meant the differences with people like Mark Durkan? I do not know
:04:21. > :04:23.whether it is all to do with them. They have mending to do with him.
:04:24. > :04:25.Councillor Declan Boyle, a McDonnell loyalist, putting it up
:04:26. > :04:29.And Colum Eastwood joins me now from our Foyle studio.
:04:30. > :04:36.Let us start with the last thought from Declan Boyle. You have split
:04:37. > :04:40.the party down the middle in a crucial talk and six months before
:04:41. > :04:45.the assembly election. How do you justify it? We are having a
:04:46. > :04:48.leadership election, we are Democratic party and we are having a
:04:49. > :04:55.democratic discussion about the future of the party and the country.
:04:56. > :04:58.I have run a very positive campaign, I have read up the party and my
:04:59. > :05:03.colleagues and I intend to do that for the rest of the week. What needs
:05:04. > :05:06.to happen is we need to set out a positive vision for the future of
:05:07. > :05:10.the country and we need to be seen as leaders within it and we need to
:05:11. > :05:15.go forward as a united party after Saturday. I think we can do it and
:05:16. > :05:18.we have had a very positive campaign and we have treated each other
:05:19. > :05:24.properly and we can go forward together after this. You do not bid
:05:25. > :05:29.up your party by trying to knock down your leader? -- big up. We had
:05:30. > :05:35.an opinion poll last week telling us we were on 10.8%. If that is true,
:05:36. > :05:39.we are in a very serious situation. I viewed it as important enough to
:05:40. > :05:43.put my hat in the ring or others put my hat in the ring and I responded
:05:44. > :05:47.to the call because it would be reckless for us not to take up the
:05:48. > :05:52.challenge and this into what the public are saying, for us not to try
:05:53. > :05:56.to change and show the public we are prepared to. We have an important
:05:57. > :06:00.election coming up in May and I want to see us doing better than the
:06:01. > :06:05.opinion polls have suggested. That sounds fine, it is a bit like
:06:06. > :06:08.motherhood and apple pie, nobody could disagree, but we cannot judge
:06:09. > :06:14.you on your record because you do not have one. Well, if you ask
:06:15. > :06:19.people in my constituency, they will say I have a strong record of
:06:20. > :06:26.representing this place. I have been a party member since my teens. I
:06:27. > :06:31.have led the city in very important defence. I have a lot of experience
:06:32. > :06:38.in the SDLP. A lot of experience representing the people who vote for
:06:39. > :06:42.us -- very important events. We have to understand what the public are
:06:43. > :06:46.saying. Anybody who has been canvassing for the SDLP in the last
:06:47. > :06:50.couple of elections will tell you they want to see us changing and
:06:51. > :06:55.moving forward and more importantly setting out a vision. You are 32,
:06:56. > :07:00.you have been in the assembly for the past four years, never a
:07:01. > :07:05.minister, never chaired a Stormont committee, never had any real
:07:06. > :07:10.responsibility for anything so far. How are you seriously qualified to
:07:11. > :07:14.lead the SDLP? The membership and the party supporters think I am
:07:15. > :07:19.qualified to lead the SDLP. You will know that on Saturday. Yes, with the
:07:20. > :07:24.soundings we are getting, I think people are rallying to the call.
:07:25. > :07:27.People are not interested in internal party discussions, they are
:07:28. > :07:31.interested in what we will do for the public. For too long we have
:07:32. > :07:36.talked about past achievements and great they have been but we need to
:07:37. > :07:42.talk about the future, the next 20 years. We need to tell people where
:07:43. > :07:46.we want Northern Ireland and Ireland going. It is important the SDLP
:07:47. > :07:52.shows leadership and a welcome indicated vision. It is very
:07:53. > :07:55.important the leader of a party are significant as the SDLP demonstrate
:07:56. > :07:59.sound political judgment. I do not want to go into the details but I
:08:00. > :08:05.wonder if you could talk about the judgment you showed when you carried
:08:06. > :08:11.the coffin of an ILO Eamon you described as a close friend -- INLA.
:08:12. > :08:15.Your critics thought it demonstrated a distinct lack of sound political
:08:16. > :08:22.judgment. My critics think a lot of things. I knew Seamus Coyle very
:08:23. > :08:26.well. I was there when he was dying and I wanted to show respect for him
:08:27. > :08:31.and his family. In my community, we go to funerals and if we are asked,
:08:32. > :08:35.we carry coffins. The one regret I have is that his family were put
:08:36. > :08:39.through the mill when it was rehearsed over and over again in the
:08:40. > :08:43.media. I think I did the right thing and I think we have to reach out
:08:44. > :08:48.across political divides. I did not agree with his politics, but he was
:08:49. > :08:52.on a journey as well. He did not end up as Deputy First Minister but he
:08:53. > :08:58.was on a journey. On this very programme two years ago exactly, you
:08:59. > :09:02.offered me a bet that the SDLP's Euro candidate Alex Attwood would
:09:03. > :09:05.win a seat. He did not and in fact it was the worst performance by an
:09:06. > :09:13.SDLP candidate in Europe. You got that pretty catastrophically wrong.
:09:14. > :09:20.I was on the show to talk about a leaked report into the SDLPgoing
:09:21. > :09:26.forward. My job was to represent the party, to be loyal to the party and
:09:27. > :09:29.to what people were saying. I make no apologies whatsoever for
:09:30. > :09:34.projecting a positive image of the party and for supporting my leader.
:09:35. > :09:39.We had a difficult election, yes. We have had many difficult elections.
:09:40. > :09:45.The interesting thing is that also on the programme you told me
:09:46. > :09:49.Alasdair McDonnell, the party leader then, he had your full backing. You
:09:50. > :09:55.said you were confident he would lead you after the 2014 elections
:09:56. > :10:00.and you had no concerns about the leadership team and I quote, he has
:10:01. > :10:05.our full confidence, we will back him to the hilt. What has changed?
:10:06. > :10:10.We have had a couple of very bad elections and the public have told
:10:11. > :10:14.us we need to change. People want to support the SDLP because people know
:10:15. > :10:19.that when they are strong, the politics in this place does well. I
:10:20. > :10:22.have recognised and I think the party has recognised things are not
:10:23. > :10:26.going right, we have an election coming up which is very important
:10:27. > :10:30.and people want to see a change. That is why I am stepping forward.
:10:31. > :10:34.It is Beverley normal for a Democratic party to have a
:10:35. > :10:39.leadership discussion. -- perfectly normal. You could fail to win and
:10:40. > :10:48.weaken your leader and the party could suffer further at the polls
:10:49. > :10:50.and you would be blamed by many in the party. Very big responsibility
:10:51. > :10:52.to have on your young shoulders. It would have been easier for me to
:10:53. > :10:55.ignore what the public and membership were saying and the
:10:56. > :10:59.supporters. It would have been very easy for me to sit back. My
:11:00. > :11:04.constituency is doing very well. We will take three seats in Foyle in
:11:05. > :11:08.the next election. I do not need to do this. It would have been reckless
:11:09. > :11:14.for me to sit on my hands when the public tell us that they want to see
:11:15. > :11:18.change. It needs to happen. That is why I have put myself forward. I
:11:19. > :11:25.want to lead the SDLP. I think it is an act of leadership in doing this.
:11:26. > :11:32.314 collectors over the weekend, you need 158 to win, are you confident
:11:33. > :11:36.you can get that? I am. I have had a fantastic response right across the
:11:37. > :11:41.North and when you have people like Seamus Mallon backing me, the
:11:42. > :11:45.delegates should listen to his judgment because we have always
:11:46. > :11:49.trusted him. I am confident I can win, I take nothing for granted, I
:11:50. > :11:54.am not finished campaigning yet. It will be a very good result on
:11:55. > :12:00.Saturday. If you win, how do you begin the job of uniting the party
:12:01. > :12:04.around you? It is a fair bet that a significant rump of the party will
:12:05. > :12:08.around you? It is a fair bet that a have backed Alasdair McDonnell. A
:12:09. > :12:12.huge challenge. People will vote for who they want to. After that, we
:12:13. > :12:16.have to unite around a vision for the country and a set of goals for
:12:17. > :12:21.the party and I think I can do that. I am not divisive, I am not involved
:12:22. > :12:25.in arguments and difficulties. I want a positive vision for the
:12:26. > :12:30.future of Ireland and I think the party will rally around that. That
:12:31. > :12:33.is the most important thing, a positive vision for the future
:12:34. > :12:37.communicated well to our supporters. That is what people want
:12:38. > :12:41.and they will get it from me. We will see what they say on Saturday
:12:42. > :12:44.when the numbers are crunched. Thank you. I will put some of those points
:12:45. > :12:48.to Alasdair McDonnell in a moment. He's asked for time to show that
:12:49. > :12:51.his re-organising of the party will bear fruit - but many members say
:12:52. > :13:04.their patience has run out. Here's Gareth Gordon again. Gerard
:13:05. > :13:19.is 22 and a perfect example, surely of what is wanted for the SDLP.
:13:20. > :13:26.Except, he desperately wants Collum Eastwood to do the job instead.
:13:27. > :13:30.He has said, let me step up to the plate, given us the vision to
:13:31. > :13:37.progress nationalism. He is a clear communicator. We cannot afford them
:13:38. > :13:47.in a china shop approach. -- the bull in a china shop.
:13:48. > :13:51.That is a reference to McDonnell. If this was a private company
:13:52. > :13:57.questions would have been asked about the leadership. And an
:13:58. > :14:00.opportunity given to turn it around. That has happened over the last
:14:01. > :14:06.number of years but the results are declining. You cannot say that,
:14:07. > :14:10.against a background declining results, work is not finished.
:14:11. > :14:16.People on the ground are asking, what is the end point? If the
:14:17. > :14:20.decline continues, if the work is unfinished, then we are undergoing
:14:21. > :14:26.one-way, and that is towards some form of oblivion.
:14:27. > :14:29.In a troubled West Tyrone constituency support is divided
:14:30. > :14:34.between the incumbent and the challenger.
:14:35. > :14:38.He is young, freshfaced, but his experience. He will lead the party
:14:39. > :14:43.from Stormont, which is where I believe it should be led from. It is
:14:44. > :14:49.a process of renewal, as well as bringing young and dynamic people
:14:50. > :14:57.in, this is a chance to let Collum Eastwood in, because she is young
:14:58. > :15:03.and dynamic, with experience. Gerald says it is not just McDonnell
:15:04. > :15:07.who will need to move aside. He is that generation below. It
:15:08. > :15:19.would be a watershed moment. Those just -- those people cannot come
:15:20. > :15:23.back. If that is the case then people just have to get on with it.
:15:24. > :15:36.It sounds simple, which is exactly what it won't be. Alistair
:15:37. > :15:40.McDonnell, the problem is I see it is your critics will not wait for a
:15:41. > :15:47.third, possibly fatal set of results next May. It is time to go.
:15:48. > :15:53.It is not. I was elected by the membership and 2011, by the
:15:54. > :15:58.grassroots, to renew the party. You do not throw people overboard, you
:15:59. > :16:04.do not create change overnight. I have worked that change, discussions
:16:05. > :16:10.have run through the party, and I have brought change in through 2014,
:16:11. > :16:14.through the council elections, I worked my socks off. Recruiting new
:16:15. > :16:18.candidates, bringing people into the party.
:16:19. > :16:21.It is not overnight, with respect. You have had years already, and in
:16:22. > :16:25.that time the party has slipped in each and every election it has
:16:26. > :16:29.fought. That is not the mark of a good leader.
:16:30. > :16:33.The party has held its 100,000 votes with the exception of the European
:16:34. > :16:42.election... The European election was the worst
:16:43. > :16:48.result ever for an SDLP candidate. I rest the case that...
:16:49. > :16:53.In the local government elections you said win 80 seat, you won 66.
:16:54. > :17:03.I said that anything above 70 would be a big game. It is quite normal to
:17:04. > :17:09.have an ambition... Let's talk about the third result.
:17:10. > :17:15.Your personal result, down 16%. You have the distinction now being the
:17:16. > :17:23.Westminster MP with the lowest ever winning proportion, just 24.5%.
:17:24. > :17:27.IM very proud of my record in south Belfast, a unionist constituency. I
:17:28. > :17:32.took it once, they said it was a fluke. Twice, they said, he done it
:17:33. > :17:38.again, three times, they said, it is impossible. I did it by knocking
:17:39. > :17:42.doors and working with people. The vote was down, quite simply, because
:17:43. > :17:48.there was a very, very aggressive campaign against me, but number two,
:17:49. > :17:52.the vote in the previous election... So you don't have to reflect an
:17:53. > :17:57.electoral shortcomings? Those are the very reason I try to
:17:58. > :18:02.change the party. We have a radical new project which will be launched
:18:03. > :18:07.in a few weeks to renew the party from the top to bottom and I will
:18:08. > :18:09.see that processed through. You have had three bad election
:18:10. > :18:15.results during your leadership. Let's look to the future...
:18:16. > :18:20.Sorry, I must take you back. Those results were relatively static. The
:18:21. > :18:26.vote was around 100,000 votes. That is the position. I intend to raise
:18:27. > :18:31.it. As far as I am concerned, results have what and out, but the
:18:32. > :18:35.decline is in the past. Let's look at the internal party
:18:36. > :18:40.poll, you stand to use five assembly seats, dropping to single figures.
:18:41. > :18:47.You have had for years to fix it, three bad election results, the
:18:48. > :18:51.future does not look any better. In any decent political party, after
:18:52. > :18:59.an election, there is an assessment. We did an assessment. Yes, we
:19:00. > :19:02.identified five vulnerable seats. And five possible extra winning
:19:03. > :19:08.seats. That is the position we are in. It was obviously leaked.
:19:09. > :19:14.Partially leaked. The bad news was leaked. We have plenty of options in
:19:15. > :19:20.places like Fermanagh... But here is the difficulty...
:19:21. > :19:24.We will pick up seats in the assembly next May.
:19:25. > :19:28.It is not what the figures suggest. But a separate point. Big names in
:19:29. > :19:35.your party have said that it is time for you to go. Mark Duggan, Breeze
:19:36. > :19:39.Rogers, among them. It is not a ringing endorsement of your
:19:40. > :19:43.leadership, is it? These were powerful people 20 years
:19:44. > :19:46.ago but I am not looking back 20 years, I am looking forward to
:19:47. > :19:52.create a party that will be here in 20 years' time, that will...
:19:53. > :19:56.They are grandees who can judge you on your success, they have invested
:19:57. > :19:59.huge amounts of time and effort into the SDLP and don't think you are
:20:00. > :20:02.doing a good job. They are entitled to their
:20:03. > :20:07.opinion... But you will not take it on board?
:20:08. > :20:13.What I am being accused of being too soft. But I should be more ruthless
:20:14. > :20:19.and all the rest. I should accept that. That may be a fault. But I
:20:20. > :20:30.have worked very hard... What should you have done that you
:20:31. > :20:33.did not? Concentrated on discipline... Within
:20:34. > :20:40.your party? You should have chucked people out?
:20:41. > :20:42.I don't believe in that. I think that a political party should be a
:20:43. > :20:48.big tent... Should you have thrown out Collum
:20:49. > :20:52.Eastwood? Certainly not. There is a big
:20:53. > :20:56.future, very much part of my plan to rebuild the party.
:20:57. > :21:00.He might be your party leader on Saturday afternoon.
:21:01. > :21:04.I don't think that the majority in the party don't so but he's still a
:21:05. > :21:08.bright young man with a great future, the timing is wrong, quite
:21:09. > :21:15.simply, I see him as leadership potential in a year or two
:21:16. > :21:18.down-the-line... So you think you will finish within
:21:19. > :21:23.a year? I did not say that.
:21:24. > :21:29.You said he might leader in year's time?
:21:30. > :21:35.Or in two years, or three years... But you don't know that. You believe
:21:36. > :21:39.it, but you don't know it to be a fact.
:21:40. > :21:43.With all due respect I have spent a lifetime counting votes.
:21:44. > :21:47.We can only do that when they have been cast and the polls do not open
:21:48. > :21:51.until tomorrow so you cannot have counted them yet.
:21:52. > :21:56.I have had lots of conversations with people across the party and I'm
:21:57. > :21:58.quite confident the votes will be my favour.
:21:59. > :22:04.Does it surprise you to hear that Collum Eastwood's team is also very
:22:05. > :22:08.confident? They might not be as good as
:22:09. > :22:13.counting as I am. Saturday will tell you.
:22:14. > :22:16.It will tell us all. Let me pick up on your staunchest supporter, Declan
:22:17. > :22:21.Boyle, something he said, touching on what you just said, but if you
:22:22. > :22:25.are elected on Saturday, you will begin to plot your exit as leader,
:22:26. > :22:31.perhaps from the beginning of next week. That is what he said, you just
:22:32. > :22:35.heard it. So if I understand correctly, you want to be elected as
:22:36. > :22:38.leader, to begin the process of standing down?
:22:39. > :22:43.I want to finish the renewal process I have worked through. To finish the
:22:44. > :22:47.process of selecting a new range of candidates. Two thirds of our
:22:48. > :22:49.assembly candidates standing will be new.
:22:50. > :22:54.How long will you continue as leader?
:22:55. > :23:02.Until the job is completed? When will that be.
:23:03. > :23:06.If it is two years, great, 18 months, great, I don't know. The
:23:07. > :23:09.party has to be put back on its feet...
:23:10. > :23:14.Some people might think that the person to do that is frankly not you
:23:15. > :23:18.but is Collum Eastwood. I sure they are plenty others think
:23:19. > :23:22.I have done a good job and should continue to do it and that is what
:23:23. > :23:30.they are telling me. If Collum Eastwood is successful,
:23:31. > :23:34.will you back him as leader of SDLP? Of course I will. And I will be
:23:35. > :23:38.carving out a key role for him, and the people that support him, to
:23:39. > :23:42.insure that the party goes from strength to strength. I, in my
:23:43. > :23:48.leadership, my style of leadership, I try to spot talent. I tried to
:23:49. > :23:54.create space. I have mentored dozens of young people in the SDLP. People
:23:55. > :23:57.talk, you know, I could go on at length, give you a buzz in the names
:23:58. > :24:01.of people that have come through under my leadership...
:24:02. > :24:06.We cannot do that because we don't have time. I just want a final
:24:07. > :24:09.thought on the ongoing talks. Tomorrow's ministerial Council has
:24:10. > :24:14.been postponed, there is speculation that there could possibly the signs
:24:15. > :24:21.of a deal signed tomorrow. What is your assessment of where we are,
:24:22. > :24:26.nearing the end game? The talks have been difficult. I do
:24:27. > :24:31.not want to reveal trade secrets. Everybody realises the talks up into
:24:32. > :24:37.the gut. We have worked very hard. We have the process. All of the
:24:38. > :24:41.parties have been coy, have not contributed significantly, they have
:24:42. > :24:46.waited to say what we were saying or doing, we have driven the process,
:24:47. > :24:50.we will stand by victims and survivors to the utmost degree, we
:24:51. > :24:54.want rid of paramilitaries and we want rid of the Mafia like control
:24:55. > :24:58.of community is going with it and we want an honest and decent welfare
:24:59. > :25:02.system protecting the vulnerable. If you are presented with a
:25:03. > :25:06.documentary tomorrow, by the Secretary of State, take it or leave
:25:07. > :25:10.it basis, what would you do? We're not going for that basis, we
:25:11. > :25:13.need a period of time to read the document and see what is in it, to
:25:14. > :25:20.test it against the needs of victims and survivors. We are not... This
:25:21. > :25:25.campaign, we are looking for a 5 party deal. Five parties, to
:25:26. > :25:28.governments, signing up to a sustainable deal, so we are not here
:25:29. > :25:31.next June. So if it is take it or leave it, you
:25:32. > :25:37.leave it? My sense is that is unless it is a
:25:38. > :25:40.brilliant deal, take it or leave it will be an ambush. We must be
:25:41. > :25:42.sharing because there are five parties involved in this, and two
:25:43. > :25:49.governments. Thank you very much. Now, a childish stunt,
:25:50. > :25:52.or a fitting way to end a service to One thing's for certain,
:25:53. > :26:09.controversy over Remembrance here The ceremony ended with this
:26:10. > :26:15.impromptu rendition of the national anthem. The SDLP said it should not
:26:16. > :26:19.have happened, the Ulster Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, said the
:26:20. > :26:23.singing of the anthem was not part of the author of service and he
:26:24. > :26:26.dismissed it as a stunt. In my opinion it should be part of
:26:27. > :26:31.the ceremony, but everybody should know. It should be in the running
:26:32. > :26:36.order of the ceremony. It is not good that people feel ambush and
:26:37. > :26:41.embarrassed. I would not like that to happen to me. As we work through
:26:42. > :26:43.this decade or centenary is there should be no surprises.
:26:44. > :26:46.They should appreciate the fact we were there, people of all
:26:47. > :26:53.backgrounds at that ceremony this morning. I welcome the fact that
:26:54. > :26:54.they came to me afterwards, and spoke of the disappointment and
:26:55. > :26:56.their anger. And I'm joined
:26:57. > :26:59.by the man who started it - the TUV press officer, Sammy
:27:00. > :27:11.Morrison - and by the Independent You are both welcome. Sammy
:27:12. > :27:15.Morrison, your critics call it a childish, undergraduate, adolescent
:27:16. > :27:20.stunt. Is there not an illness of truth in that?
:27:21. > :27:24.Absolutely not. I did what is done every other year. I don't see why
:27:25. > :27:27.the national anthem was dropped. It is hard to escape the conclusion
:27:28. > :27:31.that it was dropped for the single reason that the Army, or the party
:27:32. > :27:40.that is linked to the Army Council of the IRA was involved in the
:27:41. > :27:44.commemoration. That party has never apologised for its actions during
:27:45. > :27:50.the trouble, particularly Enniskillen 1987, when they murdered
:27:51. > :27:53.and people for the crime of attending a remembrance ceremony.
:27:54. > :27:57.Sinn Fein do not accept your assessment of their links with the
:27:58. > :28:00.IRA Army Council, but we will not dwell on it. The national anthem is
:28:01. > :28:06.not necessarily part of a remembrance ceremony, according to
:28:07. > :28:09.the British Legion, who gave us a statement today. Why did you choose
:28:10. > :28:13.to make it an issue? You may have a statement from the
:28:14. > :28:16.British Legion, but I wonder if you have a copy of the order of service
:28:17. > :28:20.from previous years? Because every year the national anthem was
:28:21. > :28:25.sung... I understand that, but this was the
:28:26. > :28:30.first time, for example, that the ceremony was led by a Sinn Fein
:28:31. > :28:34.presiding officer. Is it not progress to see a speaker from Sinn
:28:35. > :28:37.Fein leading the service, is not progress to see a Sinn Fein Deputy
:28:38. > :28:42.First Minister taking part in the service, standing at front,
:28:43. > :28:46.alongside the Secretary of State? No, not unless Sinn Fein will
:28:47. > :28:52.confess to their role in actions like Enniskillen. I do not think we
:28:53. > :29:00.would expect the Jews who suffered as a result of the Holocaust to
:29:01. > :29:06.welcome the Nazis to the services remembrance for the whole cost. Why
:29:07. > :29:09.should we accept a party linked to the IRA at remembrance services went
:29:10. > :29:11.a few years ago they were blowing people up for going to remember and
:29:12. > :29:25.services? Your critics would say it does not
:29:26. > :29:30.bear scrutiny. I appointed the murder of Mary Travers as a special
:29:31. > :29:38.adviser in her office. You can directly link that to Enniskillen? I
:29:39. > :29:44.can link it to Enniskillen. I would prefer it if you did not on live
:29:45. > :29:47.television. You are a fellow unionist, where did Sammy Morrison
:29:48. > :29:52.get it wrong? The important thing about this and as we move through
:29:53. > :29:57.this decade is that we reflect and not only build up this idea of a
:29:58. > :30:03.shared history, shared sacrifice, 210,000 Irish men, unionist,
:30:04. > :30:07.nationalist, they served in the great War 100 years ago. It is
:30:08. > :30:14.getting to that point that we can do it and do it in a shared space that
:30:15. > :30:21.is Parliament buildings, that is something that we have worked hard
:30:22. > :30:31.to do. As the Speakers mentioned, they are all working together to do
:30:32. > :30:38.that, it was a respectful service. What was your experience? You
:30:39. > :30:44.attended it. I will standing beside two members of Sinn Fein in the
:30:45. > :30:50.service. -- I was. There was Bible reading, that act of remembrance,
:30:51. > :31:00.Rees laying. That was important that we were doing that -- wreath. Were
:31:01. > :31:06.you surprised when Sammy Morrison started to sing the national anthem?
:31:07. > :31:11.I was surprised it started, yes. What did you do? I stood in
:31:12. > :31:17.respectful silence for the national anthem. But I do not think it was
:31:18. > :31:23.appropriate at that time. When we use these symbols, our national
:31:24. > :31:29.anthem, our national flag, or the symbol of the poppy that is about
:31:30. > :31:36.sacrifice and the act of remembrance, when we use that to
:31:37. > :31:41.make others feel uncomfortable, that is the wrong reason to use it. A
:31:42. > :31:45.fellow unionist who perhaps agrees with you on a lot in terms of wider
:31:46. > :31:52.politics. He thinks you got it badly wrong. I respect his view on that.
:31:53. > :31:56.The question I would put to him is how many acts of remembrance has he
:31:57. > :32:01.attended over this remembrance period and how many times has the
:32:02. > :32:07.national anthem been omitted? I would say it was pretty rare. It was
:32:08. > :32:13.a very specific act of remembrance at Stormont were clearly there was a
:32:14. > :32:18.political attempt at creating a shared space. Why should you
:32:19. > :32:22.politicise remembrance? Why should you politicise remembrance? That is
:32:23. > :32:28.exactly the question. I'm attempting to make you think about that
:32:29. > :32:31.question. You have politicised it by singing the national anthem. That
:32:32. > :32:39.act of omitting the national anthem which was included every other year
:32:40. > :32:44.was a politicisation of that event. There is a view that is... An
:32:45. > :32:48.important piece of politics was happening, at a very difficult time
:32:49. > :32:53.in Northern Ireland's political history, and effort was made to try
:32:54. > :32:57.to create a positive move and a shared space. You politicised it in
:32:58. > :33:01.a negative way doing what you did. You have conceded it was
:33:02. > :33:08.politicised. By the omission of the anthem. That was a political
:33:09. > :33:14.decision. I do not think I did. Let us hear what John McCallister
:33:15. > :33:20.thinks. Is that right? When you go and try to reach out to people and
:33:21. > :33:25.do that shared act of remembrance about a shared sacrifice, in an
:33:26. > :33:32.attempt to build a shared future for society, I thought it was good to
:33:33. > :33:37.see the Deputy First Minister there and other Sinn Fein and nationalist
:33:38. > :33:43.members, when you do that, you are using the national anthem as a
:33:44. > :33:48.political weapon to make people feel uncomfortable. That is wrong. In a
:33:49. > :33:53.word, would you do the same thing again, if the same situation
:33:54. > :33:58.prevails? Absolutely, because of Enniskillen. We should not be making
:33:59. > :33:59.concessions to Sinn Fein to accommodate a party responsible for
:34:00. > :34:04.that act. We will leave it there. Let's hear if tonight's commentators
:34:05. > :34:06.are in perfect harmony. Newton Emerson and Patricia MacBride
:34:07. > :34:15.are doing the honours Good evening. Welcome. Let us talk
:34:16. > :34:20.about the SDLP leadership battle. We heard from both contenders. The
:34:21. > :34:24.incumbent and the challenger. Columnist would first. What did you
:34:25. > :34:28.make of his pitch? He was talking about judging him by what he does
:34:29. > :34:33.but he is not specific about what he would do as leader, as near as
:34:34. > :34:35.anyone can assess, he would move the party to be slightly more
:34:36. > :34:42.nationalist and slightly more left wing. I do not see how it would
:34:43. > :34:47.work. He cannot... When you move a party and to the same pitch, as we
:34:48. > :34:52.saw with the DUP and the UUP, they play silly games with each other. We
:34:53. > :34:57.saw that with Sinn Fein and the fuss over welfare reform. How difficult
:34:58. > :35:03.is it for the 314 voters on Friday and Saturday to judge what: Eastwood
:35:04. > :35:06.stands for when he has so little experience? You look at the SDLP
:35:07. > :35:12.leadership contest and you think it is like two balls meant fighting
:35:13. > :35:21.over a comb. What is the point? What is the endgame? -- bald men. The
:35:22. > :35:25.renewal project, what is the objective of the party? There is no
:35:26. > :35:31.clear strategy. An illustration of that last week when we saw Claire
:35:32. > :35:34.asked to give a 62nd pitchfork a united Ireland and she could not do
:35:35. > :35:41.it because there is no clear pitch about what their position is on a
:35:42. > :35:49.whole range of issues -- 62 second pitch for the party. It will go from
:35:50. > :35:55.the party of civil rights, where is it going in the future? The seeds
:35:56. > :36:01.could go very easily. Does Alistair McGowan of deserve more time for the
:36:02. > :36:06.party renewal? He was able to set out a credible claim to renew the
:36:07. > :36:12.party. He has not done it. He has renewed structures internally but he
:36:13. > :36:16.has caused vision. That is a significant point. The results are
:36:17. > :36:22.not there and the internal party projections are not good. They are
:36:23. > :36:28.not. You have seen the Belfast-dairy split in the SDLP and an urban and
:36:29. > :36:31.rural split. You have very strong constituency associations in rural
:36:32. > :36:36.areas but it is not translating into central support so they still need
:36:37. > :36:40.to renew the party if they will not lose the seats they are ready have.
:36:41. > :36:45.A quick word about talks, we have discussed it at this stage every
:36:46. > :36:48.week for about the past six or eight weeks. The possible to your
:36:49. > :36:53.agreement tomorrow is being talked up, maybe tomorrow, maybe Saturday,
:36:54. > :36:57.interesting comments from Charlie Flanagan, do you see it building up?
:36:58. > :37:01.I do not think they can sign an agreement on Friday the 13th. This
:37:02. > :37:09.agreement was in fact done two months ago and an outline two years
:37:10. > :37:13.ago, it is not number two, it is three. It is no longer necessary for
:37:14. > :37:18.all of the executives to agree to it. The SDLP walked out Stormont
:37:19. > :37:22.House and no one seemed to care. The UUP is generally assumed it will not
:37:23. > :37:27.sign up. We are moving to a two party system. The question is, will
:37:28. > :37:38.it be a make do and mend agreement or a genuine attempt at a new
:37:39. > :37:42.beginning? We are picking up that the wife of the former SDLP leader
:37:43. > :37:48.is backing: Eastwood for the leadership of the party. No
:37:49. > :37:51.surprise. Interesting to hear. That is it from The View for this week.
:37:52. > :37:54.There's no Sunday Politics this weekend, but we will have live
:37:55. > :37:57.coverage of the SDLP conference from 12 noon on Saturday on BBC Two.
:37:58. > :38:00.Just before we go, our politicians often come in for criticism for not
:38:01. > :38:03.getting along with each other, but with talks of a deal imminent, we've
:38:04. > :38:06.noticed that some relationships across the chamber might be thawing.
:38:07. > :38:26.It has nothing personal. We have grown very friendly. I don't know
:38:27. > :38:31.how. Over this last months. Whether it was made in this House or
:38:32. > :38:38.outside, we will find an ally. I am happy to support everything the
:38:39. > :38:42.Minister has said. I enjoyed the Minister's opening remarks. That is
:38:43. > :38:46.not to say that I would not normally enjoy them, but I enjoyed them on
:38:47. > :38:50.this occasion. I am glad I have the opportunity of knowing Emma beyond
:38:51. > :38:55.the assembly and have a good working relationship with her. Order,
:38:56. > :38:58.please. Could I bring the cosy little debate to the end?
:38:59. > :39:01.#