:00:00. > :00:00."Determined to deliver agreement on dealing with the past."
:00:00. > :00:08.Tonight on The View, the Secretary of State sets out why
:00:09. > :00:38.she believes the outstanding legacy issues will be resolved.
:00:39. > :00:41.Amid so much anger from families accusing her of failing them,
:00:42. > :00:43.why does Theresa Villiers think she has a solution
:00:44. > :00:44.to the national security controversy?
:00:45. > :00:57.It is crystal clear the High Court is independent of government. As any
:00:58. > :01:05.secretary of state was trying to cover up the truth, that would be
:01:06. > :01:09.overturned by the High Court. -- if any secretary of state.
:01:10. > :01:11.As the DUP gets set to back its first woman leader,
:01:12. > :01:14.we look at how the former Ulster Unionist, Arlene Foster,
:01:15. > :01:18.It's been a year when Stormont teetered on the brink -
:01:19. > :01:20.there's certainly been a lot of talking and,
:01:21. > :01:23.for some, a lot of walking in and out.
:01:24. > :01:26.With the Fresh Start deal done, we look back at the highs and lows
:01:27. > :01:32.And they didn't come from the East, but we've got three wise
:01:33. > :01:38.Newton Emerson, May Blood and Eamonn McCann.
:01:39. > :01:43.One, Arlene Foster's unstoppable rise to the DUP leadership,
:01:44. > :01:48.And, two, the seemingly intractable deadlock over dealing with the past.
:01:49. > :01:52.On Tuesday, BBC's Spotlight programme heard from victims'
:01:53. > :01:55.families demanding the Government should open its files.
:01:56. > :01:58.Today, a full page ad in the Irish News from two victims'
:01:59. > :02:01.groups accusing the Government of failing to address the legacy
:02:02. > :02:05.Meanwhile, the DUP and Sinn Fein battled it out on the
:02:06. > :02:09.When I spoke to Theresa Villiers earlier, I asked her to explain why
:02:10. > :02:16.she thinks agreement is "not a million miles away?"
:02:17. > :02:22.Well, I think we are closer than we have been before to getting
:02:23. > :02:26.resolution on these questions. I mean, the Stormont house agreement
:02:27. > :02:31.was a real breakthrough to build that degree of consensus for the new
:02:32. > :02:34.bodies contained in it. Yes, implementation is difficult and
:02:35. > :02:38.there are still points to be resolved, but many of the
:02:39. > :02:42.implementation point I think we did put together some consensus in this
:02:43. > :02:46.latest round of talks, so I am going to be working hard to see if we can
:02:47. > :02:54.close the gaps on the last few issues that must be resolved. Sinn
:02:55. > :02:58.Fein's position doesn't appear to echo your optimism. They say
:02:59. > :03:03.progress cannot be made at the moment. It was clear from the
:03:04. > :03:08.Stormont house agreement that the government's commitment is to
:03:09. > :03:13.disclose everything to the historical investigations unit so
:03:14. > :03:16.that people doing the misconduct investigation have access to
:03:17. > :03:20.everything. When it comes to onward disclosure in the public domain, we
:03:21. > :03:25.have to take steps to ensure national security is not compromised
:03:26. > :03:28.to make sure are not to risk. That is in the Stormont house agreement.
:03:29. > :03:32.Every government around the world has to put certain constraints on
:03:33. > :03:36.the information it can allow to go into the public domain because we
:03:37. > :03:51.have a duty to protect the safety of our citizens. The PSNI and Sinn Fein
:03:52. > :03:58.have said they would be happy to look at what can be issued and the
:03:59. > :04:02.government could appeal. There is certain information which just
:04:03. > :04:09.cannot go out into the public main. If it did, you would rightly be
:04:10. > :04:12.challenging me about neglecting a duty of national security. Pothead
:04:13. > :04:16.don't want to happen is for me one of my successors to be having to
:04:17. > :04:23.give evidence at an inquest in the to explain why we let information
:04:24. > :04:28.into the public domain which put lives at risk. I wonder why you
:04:29. > :04:37.don't trust the director of the investigation to make that call. You
:04:38. > :04:48.trust the police ombudsman to make similar calls. This is an extensive
:04:49. > :04:58.duty of disclosure to the unit. We have to do... Know of all times,
:04:59. > :05:03.surely it is important to be protecting national security. There
:05:04. > :05:11.is a threat from dissident Republicans and Islamist. The charge
:05:12. > :05:15.from your critics is you are still using the issue of national security
:05:16. > :05:21.as frankly an excuse to cover up wrongful killings by agents of the
:05:22. > :05:28.state. The methodology used 30 years ago are not the methodologies used
:05:29. > :05:34.today to combat global terrorism. If there is misconduct in the handling
:05:35. > :05:40.of agents, that should be properly investigated. That is why we are
:05:41. > :05:43.proposing full disclosure for the -- for the historical investigations
:05:44. > :05:47.unit. Every single document be considered to be relevant will be
:05:48. > :05:52.disclosed, so they can conduct a rigorous investigation as to whether
:05:53. > :05:59.there was wrongdoing by agents or their handlers. The judgment of the
:06:00. > :06:02.director of that unit should be passed on to the families so they
:06:03. > :06:07.know what happened to their loved ones. We want a comprehensive report
:06:08. > :06:10.to go to the families, but we can't let information going to the public
:06:11. > :06:16.domain if it puts lives at risk. Remember the case of Denis
:06:17. > :06:23.Donaldson. This is a big issue for you. It was dealt with on a
:06:24. > :06:36.programme on Tuesday night. Did you see it? I have not. I would like the
:06:37. > :06:40.government to be engaged in disclosure in many contexts. Can you
:06:41. > :06:44.see how the fact you have not yet watched the programme 48 hours after
:06:45. > :06:48.broadcast and in advance of doing this interview, the families of
:06:49. > :06:53.those who dies in these disputed circumstances might see that as a
:06:54. > :07:00.reason to question your commitment to their concerns? Look, I fill in
:07:01. > :07:05.respect the importance of the BBC series. My not having seen that
:07:06. > :07:10.series doesn't mean that I'm not dealing on a daily basis with these
:07:11. > :07:14.important issues. The mere fact there was one television programme
:07:15. > :07:18.which I have not yet watched does not reflect on my commitment on
:07:19. > :07:22.these issues. After all, I presided over talks that have delivered two
:07:23. > :07:27.landmark agreements for Northern Ireland. The first of which got us
:07:28. > :07:32.closer than ever before to a real solution on these legacy issues,
:07:33. > :07:37.something which has alluded every single previous Secretary of State
:07:38. > :07:42.that has tried to grapple with it. The programme reported on three
:07:43. > :07:49.cases. I have watched it. One was about a man shot dead in 1972. The
:07:50. > :07:55.army said he was a loyalist gunman. Three years later, a formal record
:07:56. > :07:58.said he was an unwitting innocent victim. The Army didn't tell his
:07:59. > :08:05.family despite that slow remaining over his name for 40 years. The fact
:08:06. > :08:13.was only discovered by investigators by champs. On what grounds was that
:08:14. > :08:17.information being withheld and how was that justifiable? As I have
:08:18. > :08:22.said, the UK Government will disclose whether we are required to
:08:23. > :08:27.by law. We are doing all they can to ensure we carry out the various
:08:28. > :08:32.disclosure exercises were we were involved as rapidly and efficiently
:08:33. > :08:35.as possible. I want to comment on that individual case. If the
:08:36. > :08:40.families have concerns, I would be happy to meet them. And to pass on
:08:41. > :08:43.their concerns directly to my colleagues in the Ministry of
:08:44. > :08:49.Defence. I know you don't know about the case in detail, but that little
:08:50. > :08:52.description of it, a relatively straightforward case, you can see
:08:53. > :08:57.how the family would be so shocked to discover that the MoD knew three
:08:58. > :09:02.years after his death that he was not a loyalist gunman and horrified
:09:03. > :09:08.that information wasn't passed on to them? In simple terms, that does not
:09:09. > :09:11.look good. I have been trying to deliver the systematic investigation
:09:12. > :09:15.of hundreds of troubles related deaths through the institutions
:09:16. > :09:19.proposed in the Stormont house agreement. As I have said, we are
:09:20. > :09:22.closer than any previous government or previous executive to delivering
:09:23. > :09:30.that, so families get the investigation they want to see
:09:31. > :09:34.happen. The pointers this case is not the only one. I'm sure you have
:09:35. > :09:41.seen the full page advertisement in the Irish News when representatives
:09:42. > :09:48.of 150 bereaved families have accused politicians and the British
:09:49. > :09:53.government of abject failure in addressing issues from the legacy
:09:54. > :09:58.agreement. We have been working hard to deliver new bodies on a path.
:09:59. > :10:03.Huge amount of work went into drafting legislation at the risk
:10:04. > :10:06.bash at the request of the executive. The Stormont agreement
:10:07. > :10:16.takes us further to setting up this than ever before. Richard Haass did
:10:17. > :10:19.not succeed. We now have an effective blueprint for getting
:10:20. > :10:24.answers that families won't. It will produce better outcomes for victims
:10:25. > :10:28.and survivors, that is why I'm determined to deliver it. The
:10:29. > :10:31.families believe that you think they don't deserve to know the truth
:10:32. > :10:36.because the truth might be embarrassing for the British
:10:37. > :10:42.government. That is not the case. The government has confronted the
:10:43. > :10:46.truth, for example of what happened on Bloody Sunday. The Prime Minister
:10:47. > :10:51.gave the frankest of apologies. We are determined to make sure the
:10:52. > :10:54.people who are responsible for wondering are held to account. We
:10:55. > :11:02.want to make sure that is done in a balanced and proportional way. There
:11:03. > :11:07.are 150 examples that have not been dealt with. We are working to see
:11:08. > :11:12.this setup. It is crucial it is set up so they look across the board at
:11:13. > :11:17.all the deaths which occurred, so we don't have a disproportionate focus
:11:18. > :11:21.on those where the state was was alleged to have been involved. The
:11:22. > :11:25.programme on Tuesday said they wanted to talk to you to ask you one
:11:26. > :11:31.question. I am now going to put that to you. It is this. Have you been
:11:32. > :11:38.lobbied by MPs, by ex-military personnel, by others, not to soften
:11:39. > :11:43.your position? Because they don't want to see veterans hung out to dry
:11:44. > :11:51.as they might see it? I have not been lobbied by MPs on disclosure
:11:52. > :11:59.issues. When there is a legal process under way... MPs have raised
:12:00. > :12:02.the case regarding prosecutions of former military officers. That is
:12:03. > :12:09.the case and it is on record on Hansard. What about ex-military
:12:10. > :12:17.personnel. Have they lobbied you? I have not been spoken to by such
:12:18. > :12:22.individuals. I believe an e-mail came in from a constituent referring
:12:23. > :12:32.to these matters which has not yet been answered. One e-mail? Veterans
:12:33. > :12:34.have been campaigning. We had a demonstration in Whitehall arguing
:12:35. > :12:38.the case that information should not be made available and former
:12:39. > :12:43.soldiers in Northern Ireland should not be prosecuted? In response to
:12:44. > :12:51.the questions and representations on this, I emphasised that questions
:12:52. > :12:55.regarding arrest and prosecution are matters independent of government.
:12:56. > :13:00.Due process has to do the taken forward independently. A couple of
:13:01. > :13:02.weeks ago, on this programme, you said you were intending to meet
:13:03. > :13:06.victims groups to discuss these issues because they felt so upset
:13:07. > :13:13.that legacy was not dealt with in the fresh start agreement. Have
:13:14. > :13:18.those meetings happened? I have met the victims Commissioner and I'm
:13:19. > :13:24.eating victims groups next week. Do you expect you might get quite a
:13:25. > :13:30.tough time? Absolutely. I understand their frustration. We share our goal
:13:31. > :13:33.of getting these new bodies setup. Frankly that requires compromise
:13:34. > :13:36.all-round. We put on the table and appeal mechanism regarding national
:13:37. > :13:40.security and we stretched ourselves because we want to do everything we
:13:41. > :13:46.can to get these bodies setup. We want this process of determining
:13:47. > :13:49.what material can be redacted on the grounds of national security to be
:13:50. > :13:53.transparent. The way we propose to do that was to have a direct right
:13:54. > :13:57.of appeal to the High Court so that families could be confident that the
:13:58. > :14:04.veto power would never be misused. And it is absolutely crystal clear
:14:05. > :14:08.that the High Court is independent of government and if any Secretary
:14:09. > :14:12.of State was seeking, as you have alleged, to try to cover up the
:14:13. > :14:15.truth, that would be overturned by the High Court.
:14:16. > :14:21.You said at the start of the interview you are optimistic the
:14:22. > :14:25.issue can be dealt with. You conceded you expect to get a tough
:14:26. > :14:28.time - These are sensitive issues. Where is the optimism? I think
:14:29. > :14:33.genuinely, dushg the talks, there are a lot of issues resolved. Yes,
:14:34. > :14:37.we didn't resolve this question around national security. That's the
:14:38. > :14:46.big issue. This is the sticking point. We discussed constructive
:14:47. > :14:51.proposals. Sinn Fein put proposals the fable. We didn't think we could
:14:52. > :14:55.make them work. We are not a million miles away from one another. Sinn
:14:56. > :14:59.Fein acknowledged in their public statements governments have a duty
:15:00. > :15:02.to protect nationalure. How do we produce a system that people can
:15:03. > :15:06.have confidence that the national security veto is only being applied
:15:07. > :15:08.in an appropriate and aproportionate way and not in a way which abuses
:15:09. > :15:11.it? Who'd bet against that remaining
:15:12. > :15:13.the outstanding issue With no-one else stepping
:15:14. > :15:18.up to challenge her, Arlene Foster is set to be crowned
:15:19. > :15:21.the new leader of her party this So what drives the former
:15:22. > :15:24.Ulster Unionist and how will her leadership differ from that
:15:25. > :15:39.of her predecessors? Joining me are the Newsletter's
:15:40. > :16:28.political correspondent, the former editor of
:16:29. > :16:39.the Impartial Reporter. Sam, did you see the day coming when
:16:40. > :16:44.Arlene Foster would stand poised to take over the DUP? Yes, but I didn't
:16:45. > :16:47.think it would be this time. I don't think - I think plenty of people
:16:48. > :16:52.within the DUP thought this would not be her turn. She is clearly
:16:53. > :16:57.young enough to have taken the job in 10 years' time perhaps having
:16:58. > :17:00.served the time as Deputy Leader and First Minister it came as a shot
:17:01. > :17:04.when Nigel Dodds dropped out this week. She has been groomed for great
:17:05. > :17:07.things in the DUP right from the moment when she joined with Jeffrey
:17:08. > :17:11.Donaldson. He was the star attraction, in some ways, when he
:17:12. > :17:15.defected. It's Arlene Foster who stayed in the Assembly who realised
:17:16. > :17:19.that is where the power lay and proved herself to be a competent
:17:20. > :17:22.minister and was exceptionally, I think, loyal to Peter Robinson.
:17:23. > :17:27.That's ultimately what paved the way for this. You have followed her
:17:28. > :17:31.career at close quarters in Fermanagh for many years now. Did
:17:32. > :17:37.you see her as a future leader of the party? I think I did. I
:17:38. > :17:45.understand Sam's point about her age, but, I mean, Arlene Foster was
:17:46. > :17:53.always in a hurry. At the age of 18 she joined the Ulster unionist party
:17:54. > :17:56.at Queens. By her mid 2 o 0s she was a major player within Fermanagh and
:17:57. > :18:00.the party. She was always a significant player and remained a
:18:01. > :18:04.significant player locally and in the wider context. I'm not surprised
:18:05. > :18:08.she has reached this pinnacle at the age of 45. What do you remember
:18:09. > :18:14.about her since she first came to public prominence? What kind of an
:18:15. > :18:18.operator was she? She's a very interesting character. There are
:18:19. > :18:23.really two sides to Arlene Foster. I remember being at a selection
:18:24. > :18:26.meeting in 1998, where she wasn't selected, after the meeting you
:18:27. > :18:32.know, she was shaking hands with everybody. She was on first name
:18:33. > :18:39.terms. She is good with people on that level. However, she can also be
:18:40. > :18:42.very blunt, straight to the point with journalists as well as with
:18:43. > :18:46.political opponents, even people within her own party. She can be
:18:47. > :18:51.very friendly, but she can also be straight to the point. Sam, straight
:18:52. > :18:56.to the point can be a strength on occasions, it can be an aKillies
:18:57. > :19:00.heel? She's similar to Peter Robinson. People have talked up the
:19:01. > :19:04.differences. She is a former Ulster unionist, a woman, a member of the
:19:05. > :19:08.Church of Ireland. In many ways when you look at what they've done, they
:19:09. > :19:12.are very similar. That is one of the reasons they got on so well
:19:13. > :19:15.politically. They were on the same page, taking the DUP in the same
:19:16. > :19:20.directionment the fact that Peter Robinson's history was of street
:19:21. > :19:24.agitation and that stuff way back in the past, hers was in the Ulster
:19:25. > :19:27.unionist party as a solicitor rising up through the ranks didn't seem to
:19:28. > :19:34.matter where they wanted to go at this point was pretty much the same
:19:35. > :19:39.place. Her rogues and renegades comment drew criticism recently. Is
:19:40. > :19:45.that an insight into what she really thinks about nationalists and
:19:46. > :19:47.republicans? I don't think we know. There is a certain quality about
:19:48. > :19:54.Arlene Foster. She doesn't give much away. Was it a tactical decision or
:19:55. > :19:59.something that came out she didn't want to. She is not a Willie
:20:00. > :20:04.liberal. She is is... There is a different emphasis with her. She
:20:05. > :20:06.will agree with the party on gay marriage, abortion, touch stone
:20:07. > :20:12.issues over recent years. Her emphasis and tone is that of the
:20:13. > :20:17.Church of Ireland, not of the free Presbyterian What about her church.
:20:18. > :20:19.Relationship with nationalists and republicans particularly in
:20:20. > :20:22.Fermanagh. Her family history is difficult as far as that
:20:23. > :20:27.relationship is concerned, for all sorts of reasons. Do you think that
:20:28. > :20:32.could be an impedestrian meant to her working successfully with Martin
:20:33. > :20:36.McGuinness? . I think you have to remember from an early age she was
:20:37. > :20:39.born along the border in Fermanagh at the age of eight years her father
:20:40. > :20:44.was the victim of a shooting. He was shot in the head and survived. She
:20:45. > :20:50.speaks very vividly about the experience of remembering that night
:20:51. > :20:54.when she was 18 she was on a school bus when there was a bomb on the bus
:20:55. > :20:59.to attack the UDR driver. She was injured. That background and the
:21:00. > :21:03.knowledge of being brought up along the border, and living with the
:21:04. > :21:07.campaign, at that time, that's a difficult background, but as time as
:21:08. > :21:12.moved on, Sam is absolutely right, she has learned she will have to do
:21:13. > :21:17.business with her opponents. We've moved into a new era. She will be
:21:18. > :21:21.business-like rather than being overly friendly. She was with Martin
:21:22. > :21:25.McGuinness in Fermanagh yesterday? At the Fermanagh Trust event
:21:26. > :21:29.yesterday. The word "trust" is an interesting word there. They were
:21:30. > :21:33.perfectly civilised. They worked very well together. I think, you
:21:34. > :21:37.know, they both are friendly people. I think they will get on fairly well
:21:38. > :21:40.on a personal Do you agree level. With that? It remains to be seen.
:21:41. > :21:44.Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness at points got on like a house at
:21:45. > :21:54.fire, it would seem, at other points they were at each other's throats.
:21:55. > :21:58.There is politics behind this. She is a pragmatic politician. Sam, here
:21:59. > :22:04.is an important question, I think, as far as the DUP is concerned. Will
:22:05. > :22:08.there be an element within the party that won't want a former Ulster
:22:09. > :22:13.unionist and a woman in charge? I don't think that is the major issue.
:22:14. > :22:17.I understand why some people feel that is the issue. Some people are
:22:18. > :22:20.uneasy about the fact that she is Church of Ireland, more so than the
:22:21. > :22:26.fact she is a female, I think, because they are concerned what that
:22:27. > :22:29.might mean for policy in ten years time. She has been integrated into
:22:30. > :22:32.the party. If you listen to the reception she got at the DUP
:22:33. > :22:36.conference recently. It was every bit the reception that Nigel Dodds
:22:37. > :22:40.got. It was very enthusiastic in a way that other people weren't
:22:41. > :22:46.necessarily getting. I don't think that is the issue that it has been
:22:47. > :22:51.built up to be. Could she attract former Ulster unionist voters to the
:22:52. > :22:57.DUP particularly west of the Bann presumably that is what she is
:22:58. > :23:02.hoping she will do? Her departure from the Ulster European Union fist
:23:03. > :23:07.party was abg row uponious. They have moved on considerable. There is
:23:08. > :23:11.bad feeling. There is an interesting Arlene Foster factor. The Ulster
:23:12. > :23:15.unionists were dominant in Fermanagh when she moved over to the DUP. The
:23:16. > :23:19.DUP have since won council seats. Arlene was the first. There has been
:23:20. > :23:24.something of a shift. I think it will be very interesting to see, you
:23:25. > :23:27.know, quickly she will come to an election. What will happen with that
:23:28. > :23:30.election. It will be very interesting. The election is
:23:31. > :23:34.fascinating, Sam. She faces a challenge on both flanks come next
:23:35. > :23:39.May from the TUV on one side and the Ulster unionists on the other. If
:23:40. > :23:42.she doesn't deliver or if she under delivers, she could be in trouble?
:23:43. > :23:47.She could. I think the expectation has to be that the DUP will lose
:23:48. > :23:51.seats as things stand at the moment. For her to come back as the biggest
:23:52. > :23:53.party I think will be a success and a considerable success given what
:23:54. > :24:02.she is taking on at the It's been a funny
:24:03. > :24:07.old year in politics. From a crisis over welfare,
:24:08. > :24:09.to a crisis over paramilitary violence, to agreement
:24:10. > :24:11.on a fresh start - here's Gareth Gordon's look back
:24:12. > :24:22.at some of the highs and lows. # Hello
:24:23. > :24:29.# It's me # I was wondering if after all these
:24:30. > :24:36.years you'd like to meet # To go over, everything thing... #
:24:37. > :24:44.A number of beneficiaries to this fee I will refer to them as person
:24:45. > :24:49.a, b, c, d and e. I can tell this committee that person a is Mr Peter
:24:50. > :24:55.Robinson MLA. # They say that time's supposed to
:24:56. > :25:00.heal you #... I'm offended by the allegation.
:25:01. > :25:05.Given its source, hardly surprised. Any and all efforts that I made were
:25:06. > :25:10.motivated by what was in the best interests of our economy.
:25:11. > :25:17.# Come fly with me # Let's fly away... #
:25:18. > :25:25.It's a provocative action. Storm in a teacup.
:25:26. > :25:31.# What on earth did you do that for... #
:25:32. > :25:34.Happy St Patrick's Day. Anyone wearing orange is not welcome here!
:25:35. > :25:48.Only joking. We have learnt, in the course of the
:25:49. > :25:53.recent days, that the scheme being brought forward by the Minister for
:25:54. > :26:02.Social Development doesn't give full protection to claimants. I have
:26:03. > :26:10.never seen such a dishonourable, ham fisted statement. A major line of
:26:11. > :26:16.inquiry for this investigation is that men's of the Provisional IRA
:26:17. > :26:20.were involved in this murder. I'm, therefore, standing aside as First
:26:21. > :26:26.Minister and other DUP ministers will resign with immediate effect.
:26:27. > :26:30.# Your right arm in # In out
:26:31. > :26:37.# In, out # Shake it all about... #
:26:38. > :26:39.You cannot have business as usual. Are they getting paid these in and
:26:40. > :26:56.out ministers? We believe the agreement will
:26:57. > :27:01.consolidate the peace, secure stability and a new beginning for
:27:02. > :27:03.politics, an opportunity to move forward with a real sense of hope
:27:04. > :27:26.and purpose. There is a principle in my book of
:27:27. > :27:32.giving someone who has earned something the chance rather than
:27:33. > :27:39.someone who does not have one solitary vote. I thought I was worth
:27:40. > :27:44.a little more. If she goes to the TUV in future does that give you
:27:45. > :27:48.cause for concern? It might give the TUV cause for concern.
:27:49. > :27:52.# So it's going to be forever # Or it's going to go down in
:27:53. > :28:01.flames... # You have a complete brass neck. I'm
:28:02. > :28:06.pleased to see you taking a reddner. It's a pity I couldn't put words in
:28:07. > :28:11.your mouth. A bit more respect and manners. It's degrading to you to
:28:12. > :28:18.behave in that manner. # You always get what you want
:28:19. > :28:23.# And you don't even try # Your friends hate it when it's
:28:24. > :28:25.ails always going your way # I'm glad you have luck on your
:28:26. > :28:31.side # You said definitely maybe
:28:32. > :28:34.# I'm saying probably no... # I've already told Nigel Dodds that I
:28:35. > :28:40.believe that he's the natural successor to Peter Robinson. I
:28:41. > :28:45.believe that the best way forward is to back Arlene Foster as leader of
:28:46. > :28:50.our party. I'm humbled by the amount of support I've received in a very
:28:51. > :28:52.short space of time. I very much look forward to leading the party if
:28:53. > :28:56.that's the wish of the party. A year in the life of politics
:28:57. > :28:58.there, in slightly less Tonight, we've brought together not
:28:59. > :29:02.two, but three commentators to reflect on the last 12 months -
:29:03. > :29:15.Eamonn McCann, Baroness Blood Welcome to the programme. Thank you
:29:16. > :29:40.for being here. Let's talk about legacy first of all.
:29:41. > :29:53.As well as British forces. Of course neither side wants the doors flung
:29:54. > :30:01.wide open. Some deal like the welfare deal will be conducted and
:30:02. > :30:10.it will be swept under the rug. The only one scandal really tells the
:30:11. > :30:16.tale. Something will be fudged and it will be put away. There will not
:30:17. > :30:24.be full disclosure. Do you think this issue can ever be resolved to
:30:25. > :30:30.the satisfaction of the families? Unless there are major radical
:30:31. > :30:34.changes in society, we will not see. I listened to the Secretary of State
:30:35. > :30:37.speaking there. Nothing she said give me any reason to believe that
:30:38. > :30:44.anything is going to change with regard to disclosure. The British
:30:45. > :30:51.government and others have huge vested interest in keeping things
:30:52. > :30:56.hidden in Northern Ireland. We would discover there were murder gangs
:30:57. > :31:02.operating with the approval of government authorities. Murder was
:31:03. > :31:10.committed on all sides. Do you think anybody in the British establishment
:31:11. > :31:17.once the full truth to be published? Do you think the IRA wants the
:31:18. > :31:23.filters? People hang together because they think if they don't
:31:24. > :31:31.they might be hanged apart. We are not going to get truth in the North.
:31:32. > :31:36.People say to look at South Africa with truth and reconciliation. In
:31:37. > :31:47.South Africa, everybody agreed what the problem was. It was minority
:31:48. > :32:00.will. People understood there was no agreement in the North. Lasley, this
:32:01. > :32:08.process has been driven by families. Driven by one or two people on
:32:09. > :32:14.occasion. The full page advert today was the result of campaigning by
:32:15. > :32:19.relatives. Not from politicians or a human rights group. The Secretary of
:32:20. > :32:26.State says she has impossible task to do but is optimistic. She thinks
:32:27. > :32:34.the issue can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Do you
:32:35. > :32:42.think there is any glimmer of hope? No. You hear talk in Northern
:32:43. > :32:47.Ireland about truth. The problem is we don't know who's truth we are
:32:48. > :32:55.talking about. Both sides have a history to hide. She was not going
:32:56. > :33:02.to come on here and be pessimistic. In her opinion, the last agreement
:33:03. > :33:10.they had, Fresh Start, was a super deal. Frankly, this is the last
:33:11. > :33:15.thing they are going to worry about. What do the families do? They want
:33:16. > :33:18.truth and believe they deserve truth. They reckon truth is
:33:19. > :33:23.relatively straightforward for them to get if people are prepared to
:33:24. > :33:27.give it to them. Have they any hope of getting that? No because I think
:33:28. > :33:32.the politicians are being untruthful to those families. They are telling
:33:33. > :33:36.them on one hand there could be a solution and many are going into a
:33:37. > :33:43.meeting and saying let's talk about this. Isn't any real truth even
:33:44. > :33:48.there. They have hoped to test several cases. When you look at
:33:49. > :33:53.other examples around the world, in places like Chile, ideas of
:33:54. > :33:58.grandiose formal structures, even when you are perceived to work, ten
:33:59. > :34:03.years later, disappointed relatives are still chipping away looking for
:34:04. > :34:06.real justice. Eventually that will produce a common idea of what
:34:07. > :34:11.happened and justice for some families. That will be the best we
:34:12. > :34:18.can hope for. That might not necessarily be the whole truth. Try
:34:19. > :34:24.to three times in the interview, the secretary of state referred to Wii
:34:25. > :34:28.and Sinn Fein. In her mindset, this is a problem to be solved between
:34:29. > :34:37.the Northern Ireland Office and Sinn Fein. Are more cynical person myself
:34:38. > :34:41.might say it is between the security forces and the provisional IRA.
:34:42. > :34:48.There have been three attempts to fix this in ten years and it is
:34:49. > :34:54.always followed through. It is going to happen again. The swamp not go
:34:55. > :34:58.away, but you will have Theresa Villiers or her successor saying we
:34:59. > :35:03.want to disclose as much as we can. You're going to have political
:35:04. > :35:13.parties demanding for the truth. None of them are serious. None. The
:35:14. > :35:20.idea the rugby and agreed to historical narrative is family. The
:35:21. > :35:26.three of you are saying you see it as continuing to be a pretty
:35:27. > :35:31.intractable problem? Let's talk about Arlene Foster. She takes over
:35:32. > :35:37.as leader of the DUP next week. And First Minister we understand.
:35:38. > :35:43.Jeffrey Donaldson made that crystal clear on the radio this morning. Is
:35:44. > :35:47.she the right person for the job? At the moment. She has stepped in for
:35:48. > :35:54.Robinson on two occasions. She seems to be doing the job. I have known
:35:55. > :35:58.her for many years. I have no doubt she will do a good job. She's a
:35:59. > :36:03.typical Northern Ireland person and is straight down the line. How long
:36:04. > :36:09.that lasts I have no idea. What derails that? Anybody in a political
:36:10. > :36:15.party is very best to the political party. If she steps out of line or
:36:16. > :36:22.says something, she could be gone tomorrow. Same with any political
:36:23. > :36:29.party. There is no difference with her being a woman. She is a
:36:30. > :36:37.politician. There is a novelty factor in a new leader. The fact is
:36:38. > :36:42.her party management experience is come quickly untested. She has been
:36:43. > :36:50.an executive from one time, but she has mainly been overseeing invest
:36:51. > :36:57.NI. She doesn't have much experience of leading this party and all its
:36:58. > :37:06.factions together. Can she make a job of it? I don't know. I think it
:37:07. > :37:18.is interesting that there are people in the DUP who want to be a moderate
:37:19. > :37:24.and proper political party and not just repeat rhetoric of Reverend
:37:25. > :37:29.Ian. But there is a problem. I think the DUP could've been finished off
:37:30. > :37:33.in other circumstances by a series of incompetence is but also personal
:37:34. > :37:38.and political shenanigans from the last couple of years. They can
:37:39. > :37:44.overcome all that if they can present the DUP as the party which
:37:45. > :37:50.is most determined to and rely only can be counted upon to represent the
:37:51. > :37:56.interests of the Protestant community vis-a-vis the other side.
:37:57. > :38:03.That is why Robinson cannot run away from flag protests. He has to keep
:38:04. > :38:12.onside with them. She offers a chance to change the tone. There is
:38:13. > :38:25.a problem. Can you be a political party in the North unless you base
:38:26. > :38:28.politics in the north of something other than a communal identity,
:38:29. > :38:34.these things are not going to change and the DUP will not change. We are
:38:35. > :38:37.out of town. We will continue this conversation in the corridor! -- out
:38:38. > :38:40.of time. This is our last edition
:38:41. > :38:43.of The View this year. Join me for Sunday Politics
:38:44. > :38:46.at 11.35am, here on BBC One. But, in the meantime,
:38:47. > :38:48.we leave you with the DUP leader-in-waiting and a few helpful
:38:49. > :38:51.suggestions for her Christmas card. From all of us on the team,
:38:52. > :39:00.goodbye and Happy Christmas. I don't want a lot for Christmas
:39:01. > :39:09.there is just one thing I need. I don't care about the present
:39:10. > :39:15.underneath the Christmas tree. Santa Claus will make me happy with a toy
:39:16. > :39:23.on Christmas Day. I just want you for my own. More than you could ever
:39:24. > :39:28.know. Make my wish come true. All I want for Christmas is you.
:39:29. > :39:33.Sometimes, all that's needed is a helping hand.
:39:34. > :39:39.Recognising someone's value, and seeing when they need help.