:00:00. > :00:07.We've two stories tonight - first, the claim from one peer
:00:08. > :00:09.of the realm that politicians here are discriminating
:00:10. > :00:12.against women in Northern Ireland through our Victorian abortion laws.
:00:13. > :00:14.And with two weeks to go to the election, I talk
:00:15. > :00:16.to Martin McGuinness about Sinn Fein's battle
:00:17. > :00:18.for nationalist votes, working with Arlene Foster
:00:19. > :00:46.and marking the Queen's 90th birthday.
:00:47. > :00:52.Tonight, Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness may be fighting to win a
:00:53. > :00:58.seat in a new constituency, but will he be returned as a member of the
:00:59. > :01:00.biggest party? We have 29 seats at the moment, and I hope we can do
:01:01. > :01:02.better than that. Plus Lord Steel,
:01:03. > :01:04.the man who introduced the 1967 Abortion Act,
:01:05. > :01:15.issues a stark challenge I think women in Northern Ireland
:01:16. > :01:21.are being discriminated against by their own politicians through their
:01:22. > :01:23.failure to stand up for a sensible framework for abortion.
:01:24. > :01:27.And with their thoughts on that and the rest of the week's politics,
:01:28. > :01:28.in Commentators' Corner are Newton Emerson and Professor
:01:29. > :01:37.This time in two weeks, the polls will have closed in the Assembly
:01:38. > :01:39.election and there'll be nothing more the politicians can do
:01:40. > :01:47.to influence the make-up of the new Stormont chamber.
:01:48. > :01:50.Next week it'll be the turn of the DUP leader, Arlene Foster.
:01:51. > :01:52.But tonight, Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has an opportunity
:01:53. > :01:56.to discuss his party's position on a range of issues that could well
:01:57. > :01:57.affect how you mark your ballot paper.
:01:58. > :02:00.When I spoke to Mr McGuinness yesterday, I began by asking him
:02:01. > :02:02.about the two paramilitary-style attacks which have taken place
:02:03. > :02:06.I wanted to know how, nine years after Sinn Fein voted
:02:07. > :02:09.to support the PSNI, dissident groups still appear to be
:02:10. > :02:13.able to operate in republican areas with impunity.
:02:14. > :02:20.What happened in relation to the two shootings need to be condemns,
:02:21. > :02:24.What happened in relation to the two condemnation alone is not enough.
:02:25. > :02:28.People need to support the police and pass on information they have,
:02:29. > :02:36.and obviously the people responsible for this are very small, with
:02:37. > :02:39.minimal support within the community, but if they do have the
:02:40. > :02:44.ability to wish to shoot someone, they can do that. I think the
:02:45. > :02:51.problem we face is that people are reluctant to come forward to give
:02:52. > :02:55.evidence in court face-to-face. Some people would say for obvious
:02:56. > :02:59.reasons, but there are other ways and means that people can support
:03:00. > :03:02.the police. If people have information about any of these
:03:03. > :03:07.activities, they should be passing that information on to the police.
:03:08. > :03:13.There is also a huge responsibility on people within the community to
:03:14. > :03:17.make their outrage at these activities are very, very clear, and
:03:18. > :03:22.I was very pleased to see that last night, a very powerful process
:03:23. > :03:26.against the activities of these people. -- protest. But why would
:03:27. > :03:30.those people listen to what you have to say and heed your calls for them
:03:31. > :03:34.to stop when there's dissident republicans will argue presumably
:03:35. > :03:38.they are merely using the tactics you and your supporters employed for
:03:39. > :03:44.many years in the past? If you cast your mind back to the early 1980s, I
:03:45. > :03:48.made a very significant speech during the Easter Sunday
:03:49. > :03:51.commemorations where I came out very strongly, that is over 30 years ago,
:03:52. > :03:58.against punishment beatings and shootings. Some people under
:03:59. > :04:03.Republican is what unnerved by that because of their very poor
:04:04. > :04:09.relationship between the communities at that time. But I was never of the
:04:10. > :04:16.view that any of these activities were in any way contributing Dicky
:04:17. > :04:22.been people safer within society. -- to keeping people safer. But what is
:04:23. > :04:25.the difference between the killing of Michael McGovern now and that
:04:26. > :04:32.killing of Andrew Kinney in similar circumstances by the IRA in Belfast
:04:33. > :04:35.in July 1998? That is a long time after the early 1980s when you say
:04:36. > :04:40.you are arguing for the IRA to stop such activities. And I didn't make
:04:41. > :04:46.the case that Maya cetaceans at that time that this was a wrong strategy
:04:47. > :04:50.for the RA to be involved in, that that was acceptable for everybody.
:04:51. > :04:55.Obviously it wasn't, because we had further incidents. All of these
:04:56. > :04:58.things are wrong, but let's deal with where we are at the moment,
:04:59. > :05:02.which is completely different from where we were in the past. It is
:05:03. > :05:07.completely different because we have a peace agreement which is
:05:08. > :05:11.overwhelmingly supported by the people of Ireland, including the
:05:12. > :05:14.peoples of the North, and we have a situation where there is a small nub
:05:15. > :05:18.of organisations with minimal support within the community who
:05:19. > :05:23.take it upon themselves to use violence, and who are they using it
:05:24. > :05:26.against? Irish people. But many years after the signing of the Good
:05:27. > :05:30.Friday Agreement, when children born in 1998 and have an opportunity to
:05:31. > :05:34.vote in this election for the first time on me the fifth, the violins,
:05:35. > :05:44.admittedly on a reduced scale, continues. -- the violence. That is
:05:45. > :05:50.why there is a huge responsibility for all of those in all the parties
:05:51. > :05:56.to stand together in support of the police and the two Governments to
:05:57. > :06:00.make it clear that these are futile acts which will achieve nothing. So
:06:01. > :06:03.I think at some stage there are bound to be people within these
:06:04. > :06:08.organisations asking questions of themselves as to whether or not they
:06:09. > :06:11.are achieving the objectives that they have set themselves. Quite
:06:12. > :06:15.clearly they are not, because their activities seem to be confined to
:06:16. > :06:20.shooting people in their own communities. They are effectively at
:06:21. > :06:23.war with those in their own community, and they are clearly
:06:24. > :06:29.trying to disrupt the political situation by attacking prison
:06:30. > :06:31.officers, and they have killed a prison officer just recently, and
:06:32. > :06:36.they have tried to kill members of the PSNI. All of this is totally and
:06:37. > :06:41.absolutely wrong and futile, and I think more so than any other
:06:42. > :06:44.politician in the north of Ireland, I have stood fearlessly against
:06:45. > :06:48.these activities. But you can't stop it, that is the point. Despite your
:06:49. > :06:52.best efforts and the best efforts of the people closest you, you cannot
:06:53. > :06:56.turn the tap off. We have to continue to stand together against
:06:57. > :07:02.the act of it is of these people and show that politics is working in the
:07:03. > :07:07.interests of everybody, and encouraging people in society to
:07:08. > :07:10.make their voice heard. DUP leader Arlene Foster is urging people to
:07:11. > :07:15.back her party to ensure that you don't become First Minister after
:07:16. > :07:23.the election on May the 5th. Why do you feel about that? I see that very
:07:24. > :07:27.much as the rivalry, it is about the battle between the DUP at the altar
:07:28. > :07:33.Unionist party, and the DUP have decided as a tactic that that is one
:07:34. > :07:37.way of frightening the horses. It doesn't really sing at a partnership
:07:38. > :07:43.approach as far as the DUP and Sinn Fein is concerned. More importantly
:07:44. > :07:48.is the agreement that we agreed last November, only six months ago, and
:07:49. > :07:51.it has been a good six months. She is still painting you as the
:07:52. > :07:54.bogeyman. She says that the key issue for her is what Northern
:07:55. > :07:58.Ireland doesn't need as far as she is concerned is you as First
:07:59. > :08:01.Minister, so that doesn't really sad like she is completely wedded to the
:08:02. > :08:06.idea of working with you in partnership. I would judge it more
:08:07. > :08:08.on the basis of how I have worked with Arlene over the course of the
:08:09. > :08:13.last six months, since our agreements. So wanted a surprise to
:08:14. > :08:19.you that she adopted this tactic? It wasn't. Clearly the Democratic
:08:20. > :08:24.Unionist Party fear the prospect that the Ulster Unionist is will
:08:25. > :08:29.make gains, and I suppose this is one aspect of the strategy that they
:08:30. > :08:34.have to employ. So she is playing politics? You are writing your own
:08:35. > :08:37.headline. You are saying on the one hand you are working in partnership
:08:38. > :08:42.and on the other she is painting you as a figure who was not fit to be
:08:43. > :08:45.First Minister, how you can square that circle? I don't think she is
:08:46. > :08:52.painting me as someone who was not fit to be First Minister. I am
:08:53. > :08:57.effectively joint First Minister alongside her. But is not how she
:08:58. > :09:00.sees it. She is working with me. We have been working I think positively
:09:01. > :09:05.and constructively together over the course of the last... She still
:09:06. > :09:11.doesn't want you to be First Minister. Of course not. But I'm not
:09:12. > :09:15.exercised about that, I am not as exercised as you are. I am just
:09:16. > :09:20.curious. That is perfectly understandable that you are curious,
:09:21. > :09:24.and that you are seeking a headline, but I have made clear my position,
:09:25. > :09:28.if I have entered a situation where my party was the largest party in
:09:29. > :09:32.the aftermath of the election, I have made it clear consistently that
:09:33. > :09:35.I would offer to the DUP that would change the title to joint First
:09:36. > :09:40.Minister. And she rejected that, she said it wasn't in your remit to do
:09:41. > :09:44.that. If we make an agreement between the two of us ask about
:09:45. > :09:50.legislation to be changed at Westminster, it will be like that.
:09:51. > :09:54.She says that is Westminster's call. If she and I agreed to change the
:09:55. > :10:01.titles, we would change it almost immediately. Are you telling me you
:10:02. > :10:05.expect to win 39 seats? I expect to win as many seats as I possibly can.
:10:06. > :10:10.We have 29 at the moment, and we hope to do better. If you don't do
:10:11. > :10:17.better than that, if you come back with 29 or fewer, that will not be
:10:18. > :10:22.success? Let's also be very sensible about what is likely to emerge. The
:10:23. > :10:30.DUP are putting up 44 candidates, and we are putting up 39. The Ulster
:10:31. > :10:34.Unionist are putting up less than 35, the SDLP less than 25. So it is
:10:35. > :10:37.not being arrogant to say on the other side of the election the two
:10:38. > :10:43.largest parties will be the democratic unions and Sinn Fein, so
:10:44. > :10:46.we have a duty and responsibility to work that relationship in a way that
:10:47. > :10:57.delivers far our people. What do we need to deliver? The economy, jobs,
:10:58. > :11:07.health, education, anti-sectarianism and anti-homophobia and antiracism.
:11:08. > :11:17.The institutions we are part of what first established in 1999. We had a
:11:18. > :11:19.situation where the whole purpose of those institutions was for political
:11:20. > :11:27.parties to work together positively and constructively. What have we
:11:28. > :11:35.seen during the lifetime of two assembly terms? We have seen the
:11:36. > :11:39.SDLP and the Ulster Unionist take up positions within the administration
:11:40. > :11:43.and yet have the luxury of criticising what happens on the
:11:44. > :11:47.outside, and I remember whenever I was education Minister, Seamus
:11:48. > :11:52.Mallon was the Deputy First Minister, and he said to us that
:11:53. > :11:55.whenever the executive takes a decision, even if you'd like their
:11:56. > :12:00.decision, you have a duty a responsibility to support it, and I
:12:01. > :12:03.agreed with that, and there were decisions that were difficult for
:12:04. > :12:08.us, but I stood by the unity of the second death. We now have a
:12:09. > :12:13.situation where the leader of the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist is, and
:12:14. > :12:18.their leader at that time was David Trimble, are not prepared to support
:12:19. > :12:22.decisions taken by the executive. The STL P haven't supported one
:12:23. > :12:30.budget over the course of the last nine years. Your decision to return
:12:31. > :12:39.to your home constituency to take on Colony stood in his own backyard is
:12:40. > :12:48.a sign that you have been spooked by the SDLP, it is said. Have you? We
:12:49. > :12:53.are the gradient of health, 18 councillors, the overwhelming
:12:54. > :12:59.majority, three great MLAs, and NMP. I have come back to foil because I
:13:00. > :13:04.believe that I need to prioritise an attack on the disadvantage that
:13:05. > :13:08.exist in the city. And the levels of deprivation that exist in the city,
:13:09. > :13:13.the lack of jobs. The big focus for me in the context of coming back is
:13:14. > :13:19.the job situation, the unemployment situation, and my determination to
:13:20. > :13:26.change that. And what if your re-entry into the race in Foyle
:13:27. > :13:36.means that you lose one of your MLAs. I am hoping to join them, we
:13:37. > :13:42.will have three. But not if you lose one of them, that would look like a
:13:43. > :13:47.vanity project. We want three seats because we think that will deliver.
:13:48. > :13:52.And if you are I are having a conversation after the election, if
:13:53. > :13:59.you come back to Stormont with two Rather than three constituents, that
:14:00. > :14:04.will be a loss? Let's have that conversation after the election. Are
:14:05. > :14:09.you not concerned? No, I am fighting this election so that we will all
:14:10. > :14:13.three being elected by the people of Foyle, because I believe that the
:14:14. > :14:16.three of us working together, and me in the position of Deputy First
:14:17. > :14:19.Minister, we can deliver and bear down on what we believe are
:14:20. > :14:24.unacceptable unemployment figures in the constituency.
:14:25. > :14:32.Are you convinced a reduction in corporation tax is about thing for
:14:33. > :14:37.the economy? Yes. Even if the risks of two ?300 million of the block
:14:38. > :14:41.grant to help the business rather than the people you say you
:14:42. > :14:45.represent, some of the neediest? It has to be on the basis of
:14:46. > :14:50.affordability, that is written into the agreement. I think it will be
:14:51. > :14:56.affordable. I'll working on that basis and I believe that the ability
:14:57. > :15:02.to create something in the region of 37,000 new jobs, that is something
:15:03. > :15:09.not to be ignored. Should a woman be criminalised here for buying tablets
:15:10. > :15:13.to procure abortion? No, she should not buy those tablets on the
:15:14. > :15:19.internet, because that is a risk to her health. And she is breaking the
:15:20. > :15:25.law. And I understand that but in this regard, the law is a very bulky
:15:26. > :15:30.instrument and this is not the way to deal with it, it is not
:15:31. > :15:33.compassionate and we need to recognise that this issue is
:15:34. > :15:38.something that is to be handled with considerable maturity. And I think
:15:39. > :15:42.there is a huge responsibility upon all of us to look at the
:15:43. > :15:48.circumstances and sometimes they jump up to bite all sorts of
:15:49. > :15:54.administrations, every look at the situation in Galway when they girl
:15:55. > :16:00.roster life. I don't want that to happen to anyone. I believe that the
:16:01. > :16:06.law in criminalising a woman is totally wrong. But your party does
:16:07. > :16:11.not support the extension of the Abortion Act from the rest of the
:16:12. > :16:18.UK. If there are not prosecutions in such circumstances, is that turning
:16:19. > :16:26.a blind eye to abortion on demand? I am opposed to abortion on demand. I
:16:27. > :16:29.think ourselves in the political process in conjunction with the
:16:30. > :16:34.legal authorities and police need to get around this challenge, it
:16:35. > :16:39.represents a big challenge and alas and I want is a situation where
:16:40. > :16:42.abortion on demand is available as a result of people accessing tablets
:16:43. > :16:46.on the internet. That is very bad for the health of the people so a
:16:47. > :16:50.mechanism needs to be fired to stop that. Are you planning to stand
:16:51. > :16:59.again for the Irish Presidency? Michael D Higgins will only serve
:17:00. > :17:06.one term. Will you have another tilt at the Aras? I have ruled that out.
:17:07. > :17:10.The Queen celebrates 90th birthday this week and you have a severable
:17:11. > :17:19.-- several notable meetings with her. Have a centre I haven't! But I
:17:20. > :17:25.centre my best wishes and I wish a happy birthday. I believe she has
:17:26. > :17:29.made a unique contribution to reconciliation, a contribution that
:17:30. > :17:33.others would do well to follow. And I do think that the engagements that
:17:34. > :17:40.I have had with her, I have had a number of those, I am struck by her
:17:41. > :17:44.passion for the peace process, the comments she has made in the past in
:17:45. > :17:50.relation to wishing things could be done differently. And sympathy to
:17:51. > :17:55.all of those who suffered as a result of the conflict, there was no
:17:56. > :17:57.hierarchy of victims for her and I was very impressed. Warm greetings?
:17:58. > :18:00.Absolutely. Martin McGuinness
:18:01. > :18:01.talking to me yesterday. Is Northern Ireland's abortion law
:18:02. > :18:04.antiquated and out of step The former Liberal leader
:18:05. > :18:08.David Steel, who was responsible for introducing the 1967
:18:09. > :18:11.Abortion Act in England and Wales, In fact, Lord Steel has told
:18:12. > :18:17.The View it's ridiculous that women are being discriminated
:18:18. > :18:20.against by legislation introduced So is the 1861 legislation
:18:21. > :18:26.hopelessly outdated, Our health correspondent,
:18:27. > :18:39.Marie-Louise Connolly, It was here in London back in 1861
:18:40. > :18:46.when Queen Vic Charlie was on the throne and Parliament passed the
:18:47. > :18:50.offences against the Person act. Section 58 made abortion criminal
:18:51. > :18:54.offence. The dollar continues to have massive ramifications,
:18:55. > :19:03.especially for women in Northern Ireland. So, over 150 years later,
:19:04. > :19:07.is a time for it to be changed? That is a question that divides families,
:19:08. > :19:13.lawyers and politicians. They have to face up to the fact that the law
:19:14. > :19:19.in Northern Ireland is simply ridiculous, 1861. It is time they
:19:20. > :19:25.came up as far as 19 six to seven, if not 2016. The Abortion Act is not
:19:26. > :19:32.working, to translate that into Northern Ireland law, that would not
:19:33. > :19:37.be wise. And it can be traced to hear, the legislation. Captain the
:19:38. > :19:44.Houses of Parliament, where all of the original acts are very carefully
:19:45. > :19:52.stored. And this is the original 1861 legislation. Section 50 eight.
:19:53. > :19:57.It deals specifically with abortion. It says that any woman found guilty
:19:58. > :20:01.of procuring her own abortion shall be guilty of felony and shall be
:20:02. > :20:09.liable at the discretion of the court to be kept in penal servitude
:20:10. > :20:13.for life. While that's not a squirrel away in the archives in
:20:14. > :20:19.Westminster, the impact on women in Northern Ireland is felt every day.
:20:20. > :20:23.That is because the 1967 act was not extended to hear and termination is
:20:24. > :20:28.only permitted the woman's life is at risk or if continuing the
:20:29. > :20:34.pregnancy puts her long-term health at risk. That 1861 law was played
:20:35. > :20:39.out in the Crown Court in Belfast 21-year-old mother received a
:20:40. > :20:43.suspended jail sentence for taking abortion pills bought online. That
:20:44. > :20:49.sentence triggered protests across the UK about the 1861 legislation
:20:50. > :20:54.not reflecting the needs of a modern society. In fact, Northern Ireland's
:20:55. > :21:00.law is attracting attention across the UK, some extremely critical. The
:21:01. > :21:04.current legislation in Northern Ireland is failing woman. The
:21:05. > :21:09.legislation in force is Draconian, an archaic statute passed in the
:21:10. > :21:16.reign of Queen Vic Tory and contains the most onerous penalty for
:21:17. > :21:21.abortion in Europe. A charity shop in South are fast. Frontiers believe
:21:22. > :21:27.there is a need to redefine the boundaries of Northern Ireland's
:21:28. > :21:33.abortion law. I don't think when any law assembler mounted matters, it is
:21:34. > :21:37.what it says and the 1861 law protects a life of the unborn child
:21:38. > :21:44.and that is crucial. The matter when it was implemented. While people
:21:45. > :21:48.like Marian believe that the 1861 Abortion Act should be left alone,
:21:49. > :21:52.50 years ago, any rest of Britain, there was a radical overhaul. The
:21:53. > :21:57.Victorian legislation was liberalised to become the 1967
:21:58. > :22:04.Abortion Act, which made abortion legal up to 28 weeks, reduced to 24
:22:05. > :22:10.in 1990. The campaign was led by this man. I find it extraordinary
:22:11. > :22:14.that Northern Ireland has not even in any small way attempted to catch
:22:15. > :22:21.up with where we were in 1967, 50 years later. It is incredible, and
:22:22. > :22:27.one of the things that motivated me before I actually decided to do this
:22:28. > :22:32.was a book by a lady called Alice Jenkins and that was about how
:22:33. > :22:36.people in Britain, if they were clever enough and had enough money,
:22:37. > :22:41.could get an abortion legally but for most people, they had to go to
:22:42. > :22:49.backstreet abortions, women died and so on. This is what we had and it is
:22:50. > :22:53.what you have in Northern Ireland. Once taboo, the subject is
:22:54. > :22:55.attracting much debate. At this lecture in Belfast, speaking
:22:56. > :23:01.publicly for the first time, this doctor told the BBC that uncertainty
:23:02. > :23:06.around the law created a climate of fear. We have cases where the family
:23:07. > :23:10.wanted a termination and would come back to Northern Ireland and will
:23:11. > :23:13.deliver and were reported to the coroner because this was a legal
:23:14. > :23:18.procedure and that was difficult because nobody knew what was going
:23:19. > :23:23.on and through speaking to some colleagues, some were told I cried
:23:24. > :23:26.that you could not provide any information to families seeking a
:23:27. > :23:32.termination, even giving them information about where to go was
:23:33. > :23:38.called aiding and abetting. Is there any mood for change? Last year the
:23:39. > :23:42.High Court said that the outright ban on abortion breaches human
:23:43. > :23:47.rights year. For some, that is cause for reform. What distinguishes
:23:48. > :23:52.Northern Ireland is the law is so severe and out of kilter with human
:23:53. > :23:59.rights laws and legislation across Western Europe. But the case for
:24:00. > :24:02.change is absolutely overwhelming. Others disagree and argue that there
:24:03. > :24:06.is no need for the Assembly to get its legal house in order. There is
:24:07. > :24:14.no human rights to an abortion. That is the starting point and Mr Justice
:24:15. > :24:18.Warner said that, no human rights, it is for the European Court in
:24:19. > :24:23.Strasbourg, they said it is for countries to legislate and provide
:24:24. > :24:29.for abortion, some have and some have not and I believe it is wrong.
:24:30. > :24:33.The last word, for the moment, goes to Lord Steel. Women in Northern
:24:34. > :24:37.Ireland are being discriminated against by their own politicians,
:24:38. > :24:43.who have failed to stand up for any sensible framework of law on
:24:44. > :24:48.abortion, which is available throughout most of Europe, not just
:24:49. > :24:52.the UK, and if anything it is in advance of the UK law. Lord Steel.
:24:53. > :25:01.This has become an election issue and some politicians are not
:25:02. > :25:07.comfortable talking about this in public. It is a very sensitive
:25:08. > :25:14.issue? It is very sensitive and emotive and this is an issue that I
:25:15. > :25:19.think many of our politicians are very nervous talking about, whether
:25:20. > :25:24.on a live debate such as this programme or in political hustings
:25:25. > :25:30.or even on the doorsteps when canvassing for the votes. In fact,
:25:31. > :25:34.that is unusual when you consider the range of topics they have had to
:25:35. > :25:42.debate over the years, police, parading, flags, the issue, issues
:25:43. > :25:47.like abortion and same-sex marriage causes more discomfort and sleepless
:25:48. > :25:52.nights and there are those who would say that abortion is not an election
:25:53. > :25:58.issue and a senior party advisers said earlier that it is the media
:25:59. > :26:02.that is stoking this into a frenzy and they do not believe this is an
:26:03. > :26:07.issue on the doorsteps. Is the media making the running on this? I would
:26:08. > :26:11.argue not, of course. But when you consider what has happened here in
:26:12. > :26:18.the past six months alone, in November the ground-breaking
:26:19. > :26:22.judgment that's it the almost outright ban on abortion was a
:26:23. > :26:25.breach of human rights and in February, the Assembly voting
:26:26. > :26:29.against legislating for cases of fatal foetal abnormality and the
:26:30. > :26:33.publication of the abortion guidelines and the working group and
:26:34. > :26:37.the significant case of the 21-year-old mother who received a
:26:38. > :26:44.suspended jail sentence and we now have contact from Lord David Steel
:26:45. > :26:47.and other significant people from outside Northern Ireland such as the
:26:48. > :26:54.Yvette Cooper, all twitching about Northern Ireland. I rest my case,
:26:55. > :26:59.there has been enough evidence of events happening rather than the
:27:00. > :27:03.media. -- tweeting. This is a challenge for politicians but also a
:27:04. > :27:09.challenge for the medical profession. Is the debate changing
:27:10. > :27:16.for them? It is slightly and the publication of the guidelines was a
:27:17. > :27:19.major step in that it has diffused some of the tension and brought some
:27:20. > :27:25.clarity and peace of mind for them but the major sticking point for
:27:26. > :27:29.some of the medics will continue to be the added role of the
:27:30. > :27:33.psychiatrist in deciding whether or not a woman should have an abortion
:27:34. > :27:37.in Northern Ireland and while that remains that will be a major
:27:38. > :27:41.stumbling block. Of course, there are many people in Northern Ireland
:27:42. > :27:47.who would argue that we are leading the way, that the 1861 legislation
:27:48. > :27:51.should remain and they are steadfast in their thoughts that it should
:27:52. > :27:56.remain. And they are very protective of that and they would argue that
:27:57. > :27:59.Northern Ireland is leading the way. Lord Steel ended by saying it is
:28:00. > :28:04.over to the politicians to do with this issue. When the election is
:28:05. > :28:12.over, will be? That is the big question! He said it is really up to
:28:13. > :28:15.the devolved assemblies as it is in Scotland and I think big events
:28:16. > :28:19.happen here and we take tiny steps and change does not come quickly
:28:20. > :28:24.here and we talk about tiny steps but when you think that most
:28:25. > :28:30.recently, we have taken a giant leap regarding at one end talking about
:28:31. > :28:35.fatal foetal abnormality and abortion in cases of rape and incest
:28:36. > :28:41.and talking about abortion available on demand around the issue of
:28:42. > :28:44.abortion pills so this is a growing issue and one that both the public
:28:45. > :28:55.and politicians are going to have to confront.
:28:56. > :29:03.Lets see what tonight's commentators think. Newton Emerson and Cathy
:29:04. > :29:11.Gormley-Heenan are with me. Lord steel's intervention in the report,
:29:12. > :29:14.it is really interesting. It is, because it is effectively a local
:29:15. > :29:22.issue for us but is back on the national agenda, a couple of days
:29:23. > :29:26.ago we had to shadow ministers saying, while devolution means that
:29:27. > :29:31.health is devolved to Northern Ireland, human rights is not, that
:29:32. > :29:36.is a matter for Westminster, so they have asked Westminster to look at
:29:37. > :29:39.the issue on the back of that. And actually the next mandate in
:29:40. > :29:42.Scotland because of the Scotland act was passed a couple of weeks ago,
:29:43. > :29:48.the devolved institutions their wealth for the first time have the
:29:49. > :29:52.responsibility for abortion and the laws on abortion in Scotland, so we
:29:53. > :29:55.will see some changes in conversations that will take this
:29:56. > :30:04.from being a local issue to one that is probably going to feature on the
:30:05. > :30:08.national stage more. Newton, this is a sensitive issue for many of our
:30:09. > :30:13.politicians. I don't see any chance of them reforming it through the
:30:14. > :30:20.law, I don't see any chance of Stormont passing a law liberalising
:30:21. > :30:28.abortion. I think there will be things that make the parties less
:30:29. > :30:30.likely, and I don't think Westminster will impose it, because
:30:31. > :30:36.it will split the Conservative Party. So there is not going to be a
:30:37. > :30:40.legal reform. What is good happen with this law is it will simply fall
:30:41. > :30:46.into a abeyance, most are never repealed. It was starting to happen
:30:47. > :30:52.in the 1990s before this rearguard action came in through health
:30:53. > :30:54.officials and guidelines. The Internet and tablets are creating a
:30:55. > :30:58.series of events that the legal system cannot control, and
:30:59. > :31:02.eventually they will lose control of the situation, professionals will
:31:03. > :31:06.lose the appetite and enforce the law and it will simply guide to
:31:07. > :31:11.function. Except the politicians at this time will not want to talk
:31:12. > :31:15.about the abortion debate any more than they have to, and will stick
:31:16. > :31:20.rigidly to party lines, but before the action takes place, the courts
:31:21. > :31:25.are due to hear another case against a mother who procured a medical
:31:26. > :31:28.abortion through pills for her daughter, and that is due to come
:31:29. > :31:32.before the courts before our election takes place, so politicians
:31:33. > :31:37.will be asking a lot more questions about this issue before the 5th of
:31:38. > :31:41.May. Let's move on to the other big story that we have been covering
:31:42. > :31:46.tonight, Martin McGuinness's comments advance of the election.
:31:47. > :31:51.What you make of the battle between Sinn Fein and the SDLP for
:31:52. > :31:54.nationalist votes? I think there is very little chance of the SDLP
:31:55. > :32:00.making the gains it seems to think it will. I think its performance has
:32:01. > :32:06.been all over the place, and I don't think that they have managed to pull
:32:07. > :32:10.together the liberal and conservative wings of the party into
:32:11. > :32:14.any coherent message. But there is a possibility that he could pull
:32:15. > :32:19.something out of that after the election, going to opposition. Is
:32:20. > :32:23.the battle between Sinn Fein and the DUP over the First Minister's
:32:24. > :32:30.position a sham fight? I think Martin McGuinness was right, this
:32:31. > :32:33.was more about the unionism than Martin McGuinness and Sinn Fein, and
:32:34. > :32:37.a number of things would have to happen for Martin McGuinness to
:32:38. > :32:44.become First Minister, Sinn Fein would have to annihilate the DUP,
:32:45. > :32:52.and the UUP would have to make gains on the DUP, fits to become an actual
:32:53. > :32:55.possibility. We are always interested in the economics, and we
:32:56. > :33:00.heard from Martin McGuinness, continued support for a reduction in
:33:01. > :33:03.corporation tax which he believes is affordable, but that might not play
:33:04. > :33:08.well, some people say within some sectors of the Sinn Fein vote,
:33:09. > :33:12.because it is taking public money, theoretically, and giving it a big
:33:13. > :33:17.is nice, and that is moving it away from Sinn Fein voters, some of the
:33:18. > :33:22.most needy in society. Is that a fairer presentation of that debate?
:33:23. > :33:25.There is some evidence that Sinn Fein are saying different things for
:33:26. > :33:29.different audiences, but there is a very good argument wishing fain to
:33:30. > :33:32.sit the weight this one out, corporation tax is being reduced to
:33:33. > :33:38.wear our differentiation won't make much difference, and the Americans
:33:39. > :33:42.are talking about changing the tax regimes that offshore taxes won't
:33:43. > :33:44.work, so in three of four years when this is predicted to come into
:33:45. > :33:51.effect, the whole situation would have changed. Very interesting to
:33:52. > :33:56.hear ruling out another approach at the presidency. Martin McGuinness
:33:57. > :33:59.has said he will not retire when he reaches retirement age just because
:34:00. > :34:04.that is expected, but to rule himself out of a big campaign like
:34:05. > :34:08.that is quite telling. Gerry Adams's turn next time you heard that here
:34:09. > :34:10.first! OK, let's just pause for a moment
:34:11. > :34:13.to reflect on what young people might be making
:34:14. > :34:15.of this election campaign. As we know, this is the first time
:34:16. > :34:18.people born after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998
:34:19. > :34:21.are old enough to vote. And last night, some of them
:34:22. > :34:26.had their say on BBC One. Do they think it is acceptable that
:34:27. > :34:31.a young person like me, excited to be voting for the first time, can't
:34:32. > :34:33.find a party that is worth voting for?
:34:34. > :34:38.APPLAUSE It is time for them to grow up and
:34:39. > :34:41.relies that we need an opposition in order to have effective government
:34:42. > :34:46.in this country. It should be a woman's choice what she does with
:34:47. > :34:51.her body. If a woman was raped, why should a child be killed because the
:34:52. > :34:56.woman can't deal with the pressure? By 2020, one quarter of Northern
:34:57. > :35:01.Irish children will live in poverty, and our executive think it is a good
:35:02. > :35:05.time to give a cut in corporation tax to those at the top end of the
:35:06. > :35:10.scale, the richest. Why do they think it is appropriate? I know they
:35:11. > :35:17.say it will bring in jobs, but it is printing in jobs -- bringing in jobs
:35:18. > :35:22.and contracts but it is unfair if the cut goes to the rich and not
:35:23. > :35:24.those at the bottom of society. Marriage is different to other
:35:25. > :35:29.relationships, it is about more than just love, it is a relationship for
:35:30. > :35:34.the procreation of children, and that can't be found in any other
:35:35. > :35:37.relationship. Marriage will always remain different regardless of what
:35:38. > :35:42.policies are different and will always continue to be different
:35:43. > :35:45.because of the special relationship and the compatibility between male
:35:46. > :35:49.and female. Why'd you think it is OK to make comments that alienate so
:35:50. > :35:51.many voters against same-sex marriage?
:35:52. > :35:52.APPLAUSE Some feisty exchanges
:35:53. > :35:55.there on BBC One last night. What do you make of young people's
:35:56. > :36:04.political engagement generally? As Ed Miliband and John Kerry, have
:36:05. > :36:08.they taught us nothing? Young people don't make a difference to
:36:09. > :36:12.elections, they pick up the views of their parents and then don't vote
:36:13. > :36:18.anyway, they don't make a difference until they are well into their 20s.
:36:19. > :36:23.What we saw last night was a very engaged and feisty electric
:36:24. > :36:26.galvanising that and turning it into voters is or is difficult for
:36:27. > :36:30.politicians, and that is because young people tend to have less of a
:36:31. > :36:36.stake in society and less interested lot the policies that politicians
:36:37. > :36:39.put forward. They don't own houses, have housing problems, have children
:36:40. > :36:43.at school, and that is happening at an older age of our young people, so
:36:44. > :36:48.their investment in society is very different. That is just what I have
:36:49. > :36:54.said, but you have explained it better! That is 100 engaged
:36:55. > :36:57.18-year-olds out of many thousands, but they did want to talk about a
:36:58. > :37:03.full range of issues, not just student fees but abortion, same-sex
:37:04. > :37:08.marriage, the economy. But what evidence is those issues cause
:37:09. > :37:14.people to switch over tribal lines in Northern Ireland? There is some
:37:15. > :37:18.evidence it made a difference in the margins in Fermanagh and South
:37:19. > :37:23.Turan, but the prospect of lump large numbers of people crossing
:37:24. > :37:27.party lines are very remote. But maybe the change if it comes will be
:37:28. > :37:31.glacier. It won't suddenly change now just because 18-year-olds who
:37:32. > :37:34.were born after the Good Friday agreement can vote, any more than it
:37:35. > :37:40.was going to change 12 months ago, but maybe change will come in small
:37:41. > :37:42.steps. We can't underestimate the importance of political
:37:43. > :37:46.socialisation, and a lot of our young people's views are formed in
:37:47. > :37:51.family, school, through their church and so on, but changed definitely is
:37:52. > :37:53.coming with a more engaged young electorate. We will leave it there.
:37:54. > :37:56.That's about it from The View for this week.
:37:57. > :37:58.Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35am here on BBC One,
:37:59. > :38:00.when I'll be talking to the Ulster Unionist leader,
:38:01. > :38:03.And we're signing off tonight with the craze
:38:04. > :38:06.of the moment - emojis - and some of Northern Ireland's
:38:07. > :38:08.best-known politicians now have their own, courtesy
:38:09. > :39:00.This is the story of the year that changed Ireland...
:39:01. > :39:07...brought to life in a poignant documentary,
:39:08. > :39:11.with the words of those who lived through it.