19/05/2016

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:00. > :00:07.Alliance rejects the Justice Ministry, while the SDLP jumps ship

:00:08. > :00:12.Meantime, the DUP and Sinn Fein remain adamant they'll form

:00:13. > :00:18.Tonight on The View, we'll be looking at a dramatic day

:00:19. > :00:44.Two parties in opposition and no Justice Minister -

:00:45. > :00:46.but the First and Deputy First Ministers say they've got

:00:47. > :01:04.We are in control, we know exactly what we are doing and we are very

:01:05. > :01:06.confident that come next Wednesday ministers will be appointed and the

:01:07. > :01:08.Executive will meet on Thursday. We'll hear from the latest party

:01:09. > :01:14.to join the ranks of the opposition, also the party that's turned down

:01:15. > :01:16.the Justice Ministry, and the MLA who was labelled

:01:17. > :01:18.a "one-man opposition party" Plus, after poor polling

:01:19. > :01:21.in the Assembly election, should Labour and the Conservatives

:01:22. > :01:24.admit defeat and accept that politics here is very different

:01:25. > :01:40.from the rest of the UK? Were obviously very disappointed as

:01:41. > :01:43.the party, with that result. It was quite a low vote, but in the

:01:44. > :01:44.circumstances I think it was fairly strong.

:01:45. > :01:46.And who's in control in Commentators' Corner?

:01:47. > :01:48.We'll hear the thoughts of Professors Heenan and Wilford

:01:49. > :01:55.So, the SDLP is joining the Ulster Unionists

:01:56. > :02:00.The Party's Leader, Colum Eastwood, called it a "bold decision

:02:01. > :02:05.And tonight, the Alliance Party Council are meeting

:02:06. > :02:07.after the party's Programme for Government recommendations

:02:08. > :02:12.were rejected by the DUP and Sinn Fein, leading to David Ford

:02:13. > :02:15.to say he wasn't in a position to recommend his party take up

:02:16. > :02:20.With me now are the former SDLP leader, Mark Durkan,

:02:21. > :02:24.the TUV leader, Jim Allister, and joining me from East Belfast,

:02:25. > :02:26.where her party has been discussing the option of accepting

:02:27. > :02:28.the Justice Ministry, is the deputy leader

:02:29. > :02:39.You are very welcome to the programme. Naomi Long, I don't know

:02:40. > :02:46.if the meeting is over, but what is the outcome so far? The meeting has

:02:47. > :02:51.concluded, and so tonight the position we took today, based on the

:02:52. > :02:56.exchange of papers we had with the DUP and Sinn Fein and on a brief

:02:57. > :03:01.meeting with them today was that we are not in a position as things

:03:02. > :03:06.stand at this point to be able to nominate someone to the justice

:03:07. > :03:09.portfolio. It is clear tonight at a packed meeting of party council that

:03:10. > :03:14.delegates felt passionately that the case we had put to the DUP and Sinn

:03:15. > :03:18.Fein was both ambitious and reasonable, that it would have taken

:03:19. > :03:22.Northern Ireland forward, which is what we committed to do with our

:03:23. > :03:27.mandate as we went through the election campaign. When we feel

:03:28. > :03:32.there is no progress being made it wouldn't be possible for us to go

:03:33. > :03:38.into any Executive. I note your use of language, that is interesting, I

:03:39. > :03:44.wonder if you are leaving yourselves wiggle room in the Alliance party.

:03:45. > :03:47.Is this a definitive statement. You said as things stand at this point

:03:48. > :03:52.in time, does this mean things could change between now and next

:03:53. > :03:57.Wednesday? Well, I can say with certainty that the one thing that

:03:58. > :04:01.won't change between now and next Wednesday is the position of the

:04:02. > :04:05.Alliance party with respect to what would be required as a minimum for

:04:06. > :04:09.us to be willing to consider taking the Justice Ministry. I cannot speak

:04:10. > :04:13.for other parties or say what they may do but we are very clear, and it

:04:14. > :04:24.was overwhelmingly endorsed this evening by our ruling council that

:04:25. > :04:27.nothing short of the five points we put to the DUP and Sinn Fein would

:04:28. > :04:29.be acceptable in terms of delivering on the pledges we made to the

:04:30. > :04:33.public. This is not about us positioning ourselves in terms of

:04:34. > :04:36.publicity for power. It is us positioning ourselves in terms of

:04:37. > :04:42.core principles on which we stood for election and took to the public.

:04:43. > :04:45.We are about trying to take Northern Ireland forward. We don't believe an

:04:46. > :04:49.Executive that doesn't address the five issues we took to them will be

:04:50. > :04:55.able to do that meaningfully, therefore that is not an Executive

:04:56. > :05:00.we can be part of. But the charge against the Alliance party is surely

:05:01. > :05:04.you have hopelessly overplayed your hand in negotiations. You went to

:05:05. > :05:08.the DUP and Sinn Fein with this shopping list of five proposals for

:05:09. > :05:14.the Programme for Government. You got 7% of the vote on the 5th of

:05:15. > :05:18.May, the DUP and Sinn Fein got 53%. That is a clear attempt by the

:05:19. > :05:24.Alliance party of the tail trying to wag the dog. Absolutely not. We

:05:25. > :05:29.didn't go seeking discussions with the DUP and Sinn Fein. They

:05:30. > :05:33.approached us. But he went in with a shopping list. If I could finish,

:05:34. > :05:37.they approach us and ask for assistance with the problem of their

:05:38. > :05:42.own making. We gave them a solution and made it clear what we would want

:05:43. > :05:45.in return. These are not things or the Alliance party that things that

:05:46. > :05:48.would make a difference to the functionality of the Assembly, the

:05:49. > :05:52.society we want in Northern Ireland, to dealing with the past and its

:05:53. > :05:58.legacy including paramilitaries, to be able to build our economy and

:05:59. > :06:02.deal with the costs of division. Those are clear policy points for

:06:03. > :06:06.Alliance. If the Executive to be formed will not address those issues

:06:07. > :06:11.meaningfully it will not be an Executive we wish to be part of. As

:06:12. > :06:14.you say we are under no obligation to be there, they are under no

:06:15. > :06:19.obligation to accept our proposals, but we put them in good faith and

:06:20. > :06:23.were willing to engage in that discussion. It would appear those

:06:24. > :06:27.negotiations concluded satisfactorily from our perspective

:06:28. > :06:30.and therefore we are not in a position to appoint a Justice

:06:31. > :06:34.Minister. I don't think it is overblown at hand, this is not a

:06:35. > :06:41.game. We were there with goodwill and good intent to solve the problem

:06:42. > :06:46.Sinn Fein and the DUP created for themselves. They have a huge

:06:47. > :06:51.mandate, so it's over to them to resolve the problem. They do have a

:06:52. > :06:55.huge mandate and the Alliance party has a relatively small mandate by

:06:56. > :06:59.comparison, isn't there a serious danger tonight that the Alliance

:07:00. > :07:06.party has made itself a political relevance can't not in government,

:07:07. > :07:09.not of sufficient stature to be the official opposition, henceforth

:07:10. > :07:14.something frankly of the political irrelevance? Let's be clear, how

:07:15. > :07:18.relevant or relevant you are politically and how much is that you

:07:19. > :07:22.have in the chamber doesn't come from the trinkets of names and

:07:23. > :07:25.positions, it comes from your ability to do the job effectively

:07:26. > :07:30.under half of the people who elect you. That's what Alliance has done

:07:31. > :07:33.with the mandate given to us. It is not about the size of our mandate

:07:34. > :07:49.but what people expect from Alliance. We went and

:07:50. > :07:53.made our position clear that we wanted to be constructive and were

:07:54. > :07:56.willing to be constructive, but it had to be on terms acceptable to

:07:57. > :07:58.those people who supported us. It is not the case as we stand here

:07:59. > :08:01.tonight that we could recommend to party council that that was the

:08:02. > :08:03.case. If that changes it is a different matter but we will not

:08:04. > :08:05.knock-on that there was seeking any further discussions. Just very

:08:06. > :08:08.quickly, and that could only change if the DUP and Sinn Fein return and

:08:09. > :08:14.accept all five proposals on your shopping list, is it as simple as

:08:15. > :08:19.that? To be clear, we are simply not in the business here of selling

:08:20. > :08:22.either ourselves or more importantly the public in Northern Ireland

:08:23. > :08:26.short. The issues we raised go to the very core of the

:08:27. > :08:31.dysfunctionality that surrounded the Assembly and Executive over the last

:08:32. > :08:35.five years and beyond. We need to address those issues for the good of

:08:36. > :08:39.the public, so this is not about Alliance overplaying our hand but

:08:40. > :08:41.simply putting a reasonable but ambitious proposition to the two

:08:42. > :08:56.parties in government that would get us, I think, into a better

:08:57. > :08:58.situation in terms of delivering. At the moment it would appear they are

:08:59. > :09:02.not interested in the proposition. They say they are confident they can

:09:03. > :09:05.go ahead without us and we are happy for them to do so. Will come back to

:09:06. > :09:08.you in a moment that I want to bring in Mark Durkan and Jim Allister,

:09:09. > :09:11.let's talk about the SDLP deciding to go into opposition rather than

:09:12. > :09:15.taking up a position that the Executive, a bold move seems to be

:09:16. > :09:19.the line from the SDLP, but what happens next? We will have the

:09:20. > :09:23.opposition goal that all parties agreed should be available to

:09:24. > :09:29.parties after this election, all parties agreed to this change being

:09:30. > :09:33.made to prevent an opposition facility at this stage of the

:09:34. > :09:37.Assembly's life and we have decided on the basis of our experience of

:09:38. > :09:42.the negotiations of the Programme for Government and the last two

:09:43. > :09:47.turns in government. It was clear the control junkies Sinn -- Sinn

:09:48. > :09:53.Fein and the DUP would not treat us differently in terms of negotiating

:09:54. > :09:58.a Programme for Government, they have no interest in taking on board

:09:59. > :10:03.any of the issues or ideas. For a lot of stuff we didn't have serious

:10:04. > :10:08.political negotiation, we'd -- will be directed to civil servants who

:10:09. > :10:13.said little. What were the specific points, the issues he wanted to see

:10:14. > :10:17.movement on that the other parties wouldn't discuss? We were denied

:10:18. > :10:21.even a discussion on finances. If you're going to have a Programme for

:10:22. > :10:26.Government and you have negotiated it, you at least want to discuss the

:10:27. > :10:30.finance. It was going to be a framework to go to public

:10:31. > :10:40.consultation, you understood that, didn't you? We are talking the last

:10:41. > :10:42.couple of weeks. 108 MLAs were elected, some in parties with a

:10:43. > :10:45.mandate to negotiate. The politician should negotiate the programme, not

:10:46. > :10:50.those left trying to see if they can work out what was meant in civil

:10:51. > :10:54.service drafts. There was no ownership here. Martin McGuinness

:10:55. > :10:59.and Arlene Foster say they are in control, where is the ownership of

:11:00. > :11:08.the papers? I think what people at home will not understand, and I put

:11:09. > :11:14.this point in Mike Nesbitt, about the Ulster Unionist Party pulling so

:11:15. > :11:17.quickly out of negotiations, why did you not back yourselves to keep

:11:18. > :11:23.negotiating and try to get a better deal between now and next Wednesday?

:11:24. > :11:28.We did stay in negotiations, we did believe that the character of the

:11:29. > :11:33.negotiations would change because it was clear Sinn Fein and the DUP told

:11:34. > :11:38.us they wouldn't entertain any other issues. We decided we were playing

:11:39. > :11:44.to the whistle and Sinn Fein and the DUP, they blew whistle today on

:11:45. > :11:46.their negotiations with us. In those circumstances we couldn't pretend we

:11:47. > :11:52.were going to have a different experience in government or for

:11:53. > :11:53.government was going to offer the public Northern Ireland to different

:11:54. > :12:05.experience than the past nine term of the class treatment? It was

:12:06. > :12:12.clear that was what was happening -- was going to happen. It was quite

:12:13. > :12:17.clear it was same old, same old. Mike Les Nesbitt, leader of the UUP

:12:18. > :12:22.has welcomed due to the opposition and says he looks forward to working

:12:23. > :12:28.with you over the next five years. Will we see a close working

:12:29. > :12:32.relationship with the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP as some kind

:12:33. > :12:36.of shadow administration in waiting, is that the kind of thing you want

:12:37. > :12:40.to see developed? We as a party have taken our own decision about the

:12:41. > :12:44.role we can best play in the Assembly and we feel we can best

:12:45. > :12:49.hold the Executive to account by being outside the Executive. We will

:12:50. > :12:54.be a constructive opposition. We haven't taken this role for the sake

:12:55. > :13:01.of it. Will work with the oath to Unionists? We work with. In the

:13:02. > :13:09.fresh start agreement we put forward the proposals... We won't blind

:13:10. > :13:14.ourselves with what appears to be the trappings of designation of

:13:15. > :13:18.official opposition, we have a mandate to work in that Assembly and

:13:19. > :13:24.must work with other people the mandate, whether the official

:13:25. > :13:30.opposition or whether they are parties in government. When we

:13:31. > :13:36.negotiated and drafted the agreement that how the Assembly was meant to

:13:37. > :13:44.work, on a collective bassist. Has Colum Eastwood met Mike Nesbitt to

:13:45. > :13:48.discuss this? No, you don't have a coalition in relation to opposition.

:13:49. > :13:54.Be of the Unionist party decided to go into opposition for their own

:13:55. > :13:58.reasons. We had a mandate to pursue a Programme for Government and the

:13:59. > :14:02.whistle was blown. Wendy think that will take place? Meetings will take

:14:03. > :14:07.place over time, there won't be a meeting about setting up a formal

:14:08. > :14:12.coalition. So we will not see a formal opposition of these parties

:14:13. > :14:13.working together in coalition with the Leader of the Opposition and

:14:14. > :14:24.deputy leader and Shadow ministers? We will work the new position

:14:25. > :14:27.through but it won't be a case of simply we are with the Ulster

:14:28. > :14:32.Unionist Party because we are on a very different page on a lot of

:14:33. > :14:39.questions to do with the economy, social policy... There is common

:14:40. > :14:43.ground on some issues. We wrote differently on many issues. We're

:14:44. > :14:51.not doing opposition for its own sake. Sounds like it is not going to

:14:52. > :14:54.be as close a relationship that somebody might be. Jim Allister,

:14:55. > :15:01.where does that leave you have a one-man band? Always ahead of you in

:15:02. > :15:07.the queue? I think I will still have my own unique niche of opposition. I

:15:08. > :15:09.will still be heard but as someone who has championed because cause

:15:10. > :15:14.brain need for opposition for years I very much welcome others into the

:15:15. > :15:22.role of opposition. Sounds like it will be pretty desperate, listening

:15:23. > :15:27.to Mr Durkin. Doesn't sound as if it will be cogent? We will have to give

:15:28. > :15:32.it time to see how it works out. You mentioned properly funded. It is not

:15:33. > :15:38.stop it needs to be resourced. There are resources available. ?60,000 for

:15:39. > :15:41.this year. This is an opposition that is going to face a full

:15:42. > :15:48.Executive with the full backing of the civil service 16 over unpaid

:15:49. > :15:53.special advisers and the Assembly commission in its wisdom allocated

:15:54. > :15:56.what amounts to ?60,000 for the opposition. That is laughable. Any

:15:57. > :16:03.opposition anywhere across the world has to be resourced. It can be

:16:04. > :16:07.resourced on a financially neutral basis by reducing the number of

:16:08. > :16:11.special advisers, by reducing their salaries as I tried to do last year

:16:12. > :16:14.to the average in the devolved administrations and by allocating

:16:15. > :16:20.that money to the official opposition to do the job that needs

:16:21. > :16:25.to be done. You would like to work closely with you with the SDLP, the

:16:26. > :16:32.Ulster Unionist Party, the Alliance? I will work with anyone who is in

:16:33. > :16:37.opposition to what will be another dysfunctional, failed administration

:16:38. > :16:43.under the joint office headed up by Arlene Foster of the first

:16:44. > :16:49.ministers. It is Martin and Arlene, Marlene, that is your new

:16:50. > :16:55.catchphrase? It is operated by one political entity, the joint First

:16:56. > :17:03.Minister who I have tagged as Marlene. That is fair enough. I

:17:04. > :17:07.think he is giving it to you. Let me ask you a question. You are a lawyer

:17:08. > :17:10.of course, I am assuming they would be no point in the first and Deputy

:17:11. > :17:15.First Minister inviting you to discuss the possibility of taking

:17:16. > :17:21.the Justice job. You were to be one of the few people invited in for a

:17:22. > :17:28.chat about his? I take it as a vote of confidence and a component that

:17:29. > :17:34.they didn't dare ask me to insult me by clicking a post and propping up

:17:35. > :17:39.there failed administration. They would have got short shrift? They

:17:40. > :17:44.certainly would. The start of an opposition is good. Part of the

:17:45. > :17:48.essence and logic of an opposition is that you create an alternative

:17:49. > :17:55.government. In order to do that we need to take the next logical step

:17:56. > :18:04.which is decoupling from a mandatory coalition. That is not on the

:18:05. > :18:08.agenda. Let's come back to it in five years' time. Even if the Ulster

:18:09. > :18:14.Unionist Party the SDLP still excel in opposition but after the next

:18:15. > :18:17.election they are the largest party, the present arrangements still allow

:18:18. > :18:23.Sinn Fein and the DUP to cling to office but we have to remove the

:18:24. > :18:30.voluntary coalition to give people the opportunity to vote out these

:18:31. > :18:33.parties. Your one out of 108. Five years ago I was one out of 108

:18:34. > :18:40.talking about opposition. You still are. The very cause I espoused is

:18:41. > :18:44.now coming to fruition. Naomi Long, let's talk about how we will get a

:18:45. > :18:47.Justice Minister appointed to take over from David Ford because of

:18:48. > :18:54.there isn't one as I understand my wedding night we are looking at the

:18:55. > :18:58.prospect of another election. -- by Wednesday night. What is your

:18:59. > :19:02.suggestion? Our suggestion or the five point that we put to the DUP

:19:03. > :19:08.and Sinn Fein. That is not happening so how would you resolve the issue?

:19:09. > :19:13.It isn't ours to resolve with all due respect. The First Minister went

:19:14. > :19:17.live and said that she couldn't count on a Sinn Fein member as

:19:18. > :19:20.Justice Minister. No doubt that means that Sinn Fein has

:19:21. > :19:24.reciprocation will rule out a DUP Justice Minister. If they create

:19:25. > :19:30.these problems they have to have the will to solve them. If it is not

:19:31. > :19:36.resolved, we could be looking at another election. The Alliance

:19:37. > :19:39.Party's job is not to be a sticking plaster on the sectarian wounds that

:19:40. > :19:43.the DUP and Sinn Fein inflict on each other. Our job was to try and

:19:44. > :19:46.take Northern Ireland forward. We put proposals that could have done

:19:47. > :19:50.that, they are not interested in those. It is now over to them and as

:19:51. > :19:54.you have said they feel very confident that they are going to

:19:55. > :19:58.resolve them and I am happy to let them go ahead and do that. It is not

:19:59. > :20:01.for me to dictate to them how to. They invited us to help and solve

:20:02. > :20:05.the problem and we give them the proposition and they rejected it and

:20:06. > :20:09.that is our involvement complete. Mark Durkan, how would you square

:20:10. > :20:11.the circle? What do you think the options are realistic and dealing

:20:12. > :20:18.with this seemingly intractable issue? I'm not going to come was the

:20:19. > :20:26.permutations here and lay out ideas for them, they can get themselves

:20:27. > :20:29.out of this particular eight ball alliance still aren't in a position

:20:30. > :20:33.to say yes to an offer of the ministry. It doesn't look like there

:20:34. > :20:38.is a great deal of movement. There is the time because obviously it may

:20:39. > :20:41.be the first and Deputy First Minister feel they may need to

:20:42. > :20:46.continue denunciations with the Alliance Party. They weren't really

:20:47. > :20:50.continuing in negotiations with us because it is a particular ministry

:20:51. > :20:53.they want the Alliance Party to take because the particular problem. That

:20:54. > :20:58.is not the case with ourselves. They may be some more time in play. Do

:20:59. > :21:01.you think it is realistic that someone mixed even IQ workwear

:21:02. > :21:09.Sugden could be appointed even for an interim period? There is the

:21:10. > :21:15.timeline sensitivity. The calendar issue of making sure that they held

:21:16. > :21:22.ministerial offices filled. There are options that they have and it

:21:23. > :21:29.doesn't take anybody to look at what the law provides in terms of who

:21:30. > :21:36.fills officers. Would the SDLP be helping Sinn Fein and DUP of helping

:21:37. > :21:40.them? Week are for an Executive. You are now in opposition as well. You

:21:41. > :21:44.want to oppose. We are not in opposition to the institutions. We

:21:45. > :21:49.want to see them working properly in the way we intended when we

:21:50. > :21:52.negotiated the agreements. Unfortunately the agreement has been

:21:53. > :22:01.hollowed out in large parts into how it operates. It is he is... If you

:22:02. > :22:05.had some way of inputting into the decision-making process, Jim, what

:22:06. > :22:09.do you think might be acceptable? Abbey a thing to offer? As Naomi

:22:10. > :22:16.Long said this is a problem they have created. So you sit back and

:22:17. > :22:21.enjoy it? There is an element of enjoying the dysfunctional as on of

:22:22. > :22:25.those who are now causing together. The DUP saying for six weeks they

:22:26. > :22:31.were the people to stop Sinn Fein can now be at the single partner. It

:22:32. > :22:35.is for them to resolve and I wouldn't be surprised if it party

:22:36. > :22:38.that wants said it would be many political lifetimes before Justice

:22:39. > :22:42.was even give old could ultimately reach a deal with Sinn Fein where

:22:43. > :22:45.the office would be shared with Sinn Fein or the process with the DUP

:22:46. > :22:50.would be followed by Sinn Fein, nothing would surprise me, such as

:22:51. > :22:58.the desperation to cling to office. Mark Durkan... Remember they handed

:22:59. > :23:04.back power to the Tories on welfare reform when they said they wouldn't.

:23:05. > :23:11.Just to reflect on today what has happened with the SDLP and last week

:23:12. > :23:15.with the Ulster Unionist Party, and seemingly the Alliance Party going

:23:16. > :23:17.for opposition rather than the Executive, to what extent do you

:23:18. > :23:24.think the whole tone and operation of Stormont will change? I hope it

:23:25. > :23:29.will change and that there will be a much stronger sense of scrutiny and

:23:30. > :23:32.challenge than there has been. There seemed to be a presumption that they

:23:33. > :23:39.were so many purchasing government, it meant if something was taken note

:23:40. > :23:42.of the Assembly, no parties who were representing the Executive would

:23:43. > :23:48.even ask questions, so hopefully it will be more open for committees. It

:23:49. > :23:52.also means working across all parties, committees work across all

:23:53. > :23:55.parties. We would be working with MLAs are parties who are in

:23:56. > :24:01.government and outside the Executive. Jim, it is clearly not in

:24:02. > :24:07.the image of Jim Allister and it is a long way of. It's nonetheless

:24:08. > :24:13.changed and changed quite dramatically from the past... Five

:24:14. > :24:17.years ago I was the only one top thing about opposition. Tonight we

:24:18. > :24:20.have one. A strong opposition is helpful for a strong Northern

:24:21. > :24:24.Ireland. It is quite amazing to me that people are startled at which it

:24:25. > :24:28.have an opposition. It is not North Korea. It is Northern Ireland, of

:24:29. > :24:30.course we should all in opposition and that helps. We will leave it

:24:31. > :24:34.there. Thank you both very much. Joining me from the Park Avenue

:24:35. > :24:43.Hotel is our Political You were there with the Alliance

:24:44. > :24:47.meeting, nothing has changed. I was interested in Naomi Long's use of

:24:48. > :24:51.line which. She said the Alliance Party would not go over the Justice

:24:52. > :24:56.Minister it as things stand at this point in time. So, there is still a

:24:57. > :25:01.little bit of wriggle room? Yes, there is still a chink of light that

:25:02. > :25:05.they are leaving. Obviously they have had a very difficult stand-off

:25:06. > :25:08.with the DUP and Sinn Fein over their proposals for reforming

:25:09. > :25:12.Stormont and there are other demands particularly in relation to

:25:13. > :25:15.petitions of concern. But the fact that Alliance members were under

:25:16. > :25:20.instructions not to talk to us as they went into this meeting, or as

:25:21. > :25:26.they left but to party leaders, I think shows that there might be some

:25:27. > :25:30.negotiation about if the DUP and Sinn Fein comeback to them but the

:25:31. > :25:34.difficulty they have is they are put out the prime headlines they were

:25:35. > :25:37.looking for and that has to some extent cut down their wriggle room.

:25:38. > :25:43.I still think there is a possibility there might be some way to go. If

:25:44. > :25:48.however it isn't possible for the DUP and Sinn Fein to resolve those

:25:49. > :25:53.outstanding issues with the Alliance Party and Alliance Justice Minister

:25:54. > :25:59.is off the table, how do you think that if you might be resolved? What

:26:00. > :26:03.is your best guess? Today we saw that the first and Deputy First

:26:04. > :26:06.Minister has had talks with the Green Party and the independent

:26:07. > :26:10.Claire Sugden. One Alliance politician is not group said that

:26:11. > :26:13.was just performance part. In relation to the Greens I think it is

:26:14. > :26:17.quite difficult to conceive that they could be partners with the DUP

:26:18. > :26:22.and Sinn Fein particularly the DUP when they will be looking at

:26:23. > :26:24.sensitive issues like abortion or same-sex marriage. I think however

:26:25. > :26:31.the position of the independent unionist Claire Sugden is intriguing

:26:32. > :26:35.because potentially I suppose the DUP and Sinn Fein can vote her into

:26:36. > :26:40.place and it is up to her to decide exactly how she wants to do the job,

:26:41. > :26:44.whether she feels sick and will fill a full mind it without having a

:26:45. > :26:50.party backing her up. -- she feels she can. Local constituents up in

:26:51. > :26:56.East Londonderry. The other thing is if the Sinn Fein DUP themselves

:26:57. > :27:01.resolve the Justice conundrum. Arlene Foster has repeated she won't

:27:02. > :27:05.have a Sinn Fein Justice Minister but could there be a DUP Justice

:27:06. > :27:09.Minister and if so, could they give Sinn Fein something like first pick

:27:10. > :27:14.of the other departments in return? In which case we would have an

:27:15. > :27:18.entirely DUP and Sinn Fein Executive. It is not utterly out of

:27:19. > :27:22.the question given that so much has changed here at Stormont will the

:27:23. > :27:27.last few days. It is a fascinating situation. Thank you for that. We

:27:28. > :27:29.will have more from our commentators on that very shortly.

:27:30. > :27:32.But first, the Assembly election results were a challenge for local

:27:33. > :27:34.supporters of both the Conservative and Labour parties.

:27:35. > :27:36.The Tories polled just 2,500 votes, and the rebel Labour candidates

:27:37. > :27:39.who were standing for the first time received just 1,500 votes.

:27:40. > :27:42.Not a single candidate from either party came anywhere

:27:43. > :27:45.So should they admit defeat and accept that politics

:27:46. > :27:47.here is just very different from elsewhere in the UK?

:27:48. > :27:57.Stephen Walker has been investigating.

:27:58. > :28:07.We were with the very disappointed as a party at the Northern Ireland

:28:08. > :28:12.Conservatives. It was quite a low vote but in the circumstances I

:28:13. > :28:17.think it was fairly strong. Nobody goes into politics as an ego trip,

:28:18. > :28:20.everybody wants to further their politics. The Assembly election

:28:21. > :28:24.campaign was far removed from the streets of London. However as the

:28:25. > :28:28.results were closely monitored at the headquarters of the Labour and

:28:29. > :28:31.Conservative Party. Labour's unofficial candidates tested the

:28:32. > :28:34.electoral waters for the first time but they failed to make a

:28:35. > :28:41.breakthrough. And the Conservatives, it was a similar story. The

:28:42. > :28:44.Conservatives stood in 12 seats at the Assembly election, polling to on

:28:45. > :28:50.the half thousand votes which was a drop of 26% on their 2007 figure.

:28:51. > :28:53.The frustration would be that at the door of people were telling us that

:28:54. > :28:57.they want to change and they are looking for change, but is it

:28:58. > :29:05.exclusive to the election they didn't respond well to the sabre

:29:06. > :29:09.rattling and trust people you get them scenario. At the Assembly

:29:10. > :29:12.election not one of the eight official Labour candidates were

:29:13. > :29:16.elected by party members take part in the success of other left-wing

:29:17. > :29:23.candidates like Jerry Carroll and Ian McCann.

:29:24. > :29:30.People have realised if they wanted change, they're going to have to

:29:31. > :29:35.vote for an alternative. Once the Northern Ireland Labour Party were

:29:36. > :29:41.political heavyweights, and in the 1960s and 1970 poll nearly 100,000

:29:42. > :29:47.votes. For many years it was seen as a third, middle ground option, a

:29:48. > :29:55.middle party. When did things change? With the onset of sectarian

:29:56. > :30:00.violence in the 1960s, early 70s, but by 1974, the party was

:30:01. > :30:04.effectively a spent force. While the Labour Party allow membership in

:30:05. > :30:07.Northern Ireland they don't officially endorse candidates, but

:30:08. > :30:11.that decision is being reviewed. While some agree with the decision

:30:12. > :30:16.to run candidates in the recent Assembly election, some within the

:30:17. > :30:21.party think that move was an helpful. I think what we need to do

:30:22. > :30:30.now is to think through the consequences. There is an in impact

:30:31. > :30:36.on the SDLP. Do you want to create a situation where one of the important

:30:37. > :30:41.parties in Northern Ireland might be damaged, and one we have a good

:30:42. > :30:45.relationship with. Others insist Labour candidates will definitely

:30:46. > :30:51.contest future elections in Northern Ireland. Even if the party hierarchy

:30:52. > :30:55.don't Bakambu at Scott -- candidates, I am sure there will be,

:30:56. > :30:59.but I'm confident there is inevitability in the Labour

:31:00. > :31:03.headquarters and the general secretary will have to acquiesce in

:31:04. > :31:07.candidates standing at subsequent elections in Northern Ireland,

:31:08. > :31:11.because it is a test of democracy. Local Conservatives have their

:31:12. > :31:16.heyday in the early 1990s when Laurence Kennedy was runner-up in

:31:17. > :31:21.North Down and his party polled 44,000 votes across Northern

:31:22. > :31:26.Ireland. A far cry from recent results. In Northern Ireland I think

:31:27. > :31:33.the left- right party differences are less important to people who

:31:34. > :31:37.vote. I think they vote along traditional Protestant - Catholic,

:31:38. > :31:43.Unionist - Nationalist lines, and there was no sign of that softening

:31:44. > :31:47.in future. In 2010 the Conservatives and UUP formed a collector will --

:31:48. > :31:51.an electoral pact which failed to deliver a seat at Westminster.

:31:52. > :31:58.Sheila Davidson was involved with the Tories back then and has left

:31:59. > :32:03.the party, and insists success will elude them if they don't change

:32:04. > :32:07.tack. The real problem for those parties is they don't get support

:32:08. > :32:12.from the National parties, so they are vote much bit part players in

:32:13. > :32:17.reality, not considered to be serious, and they don't have good or

:32:18. > :32:22.heavyweight representation that actually makes them relevant in

:32:23. > :32:25.Northern Ireland turns. At Westminster, some in the

:32:26. > :32:29.Conservative camp say despite poor results the party must continue to

:32:30. > :32:33.fight elections in Northern Ireland. I can see why in the Assembly

:32:34. > :32:40.elections people want to vote for Northern Ireland parties. I still

:32:41. > :32:45.think it is important that UK wide parties engage with voters across

:32:46. > :32:49.the UK and don't write off 2 million voters in Northern Ireland. So what

:32:50. > :32:56.should local Conservative activists do now? I think our strategy moving

:32:57. > :33:00.forward will be looking at two or three target seats, identifying

:33:01. > :33:06.candidates active in the community, whether it be in business or the

:33:07. > :33:10.social side of it, and building them up for candidacy in the local

:33:11. > :33:14.council elections. For a Labour Party activists in Northern Ireland

:33:15. > :33:19.it is a similar story. I have no doubt we will build our vote by 2019

:33:20. > :33:24.and I have no doubt we will have MLAs selected in the next Assembly

:33:25. > :33:28.election. The reason I am social is the Labour Party reaches apart other

:33:29. > :33:32.parties don't reach, and that is the vote we will attract. Both Labour

:33:33. > :33:41.and the Conservatives have thinking to do. Labour must decide if

:33:42. > :33:43.Northern Ireland is a battle ground they want to officially competing.

:33:44. > :33:45.The Tories must work out how they can address a vote share that is in

:33:46. > :33:45.decline. So let's see what our commentators

:33:46. > :33:47.Professors Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford make

:33:48. > :33:56.of all the goings on at Stormont. Welcome to you both. We heard from

:33:57. > :34:01.Mark Devenport at that meeting in East Belfast, and he was saying the

:34:02. > :34:07.story is not over yet, do you agree? I think he is right, he has his

:34:08. > :34:12.finger on the pulse, there is a chink of light, and Alliance will

:34:13. > :34:15.probably be audible at this juncture, and certainly Sinn Fein

:34:16. > :34:21.and the DUP will want to avert a crisis week. They don't want to

:34:22. > :34:26.start triggering darts and finding things fall apart. They must have a

:34:27. > :34:30.plan B which is why I think alternatives like a revolving

:34:31. > :34:34.Minister or junior ministers might be options they are considering

:34:35. > :34:39.given Alliance are unlikely to go in now. How do you think the square

:34:40. > :34:43.will be circled? I think it is ludicrous that Alliance are talking

:34:44. > :34:47.about five demands, they don't have a mandate to make five demands. They

:34:48. > :34:58.were asked to be a sticking plaster for the Government and they should

:34:59. > :35:00.say no, because we are told repeatedly by the wonderful working

:35:01. > :35:03.relationship between the DUP and Sinn Fein and how they build trust

:35:04. > :35:05.-- about the relationship, and I think David Ford was right to take

:35:06. > :35:08.on the Justice ministry at the time, that many years later it is time to

:35:09. > :35:11.say we can work together. This took about Claire Sugden is also a

:35:12. > :35:18.sideshow, they couldn't take on that post without a party. They could for

:35:19. > :35:21.a short time. But it would ruin their electoral chances. These are

:35:22. > :35:26.main parties with a mandate who need to say, this is a sticky problem to

:35:27. > :35:32.sort out. It is a momentous day because the STL P have said they

:35:33. > :35:38.will not be treated as third rate any more. -- the SDLP. What I can't

:35:39. > :35:43.understand is why Eileen and Sinn Fein are so upset about the

:35:44. > :35:48.opposition, why has it spooked them -- Arlene Foster. Any functioning

:35:49. > :35:54.democracy has and opposition, why does it frighten them? I think for

:35:55. > :36:02.different reasons they both would like cover within the Executive, but

:36:03. > :36:04.it gives the SDLP and UUP the opportunity to put clear water

:36:05. > :36:13.between itself and she affect -- Sinn Fein. It was a signal day I

:36:14. > :36:18.thought and what I find remarkable, I don't know about you, Deirdre, is

:36:19. > :36:23.neither the DUP more SDLP leaders are here. I would thought -- have

:36:24. > :36:31.thought this was a such a significant moment that they should

:36:32. > :36:35.be. Just to be clear, we did invite the UUP and SDLP, DUP and Sinn Fein

:36:36. > :36:40.to join us. Those three parties didn't want to come along and the

:36:41. > :36:45.SDLP didn't want to send the leader. Again I think most people would

:36:46. > :36:49.agree, the SDLP leader described it as a momentous day so you would have

:36:50. > :36:53.thought you would discuss it. If the Alliance party take the Justice

:36:54. > :36:58.Ministry they will find themselves in office but not in Government.

:36:59. > :37:04.They could be bullied or vetoed, they are there to provide cover but

:37:05. > :37:08.not with any power or say so I hope they say no and say, it you guys

:37:09. > :37:14.have the mandate, you sort it out. Do you agree? I think so. A week ago

:37:15. > :37:18.I thought they might go in but I think the frosty reception they got

:37:19. > :37:25.from Sinn Fein and the DUP today probably seals the deal, they will

:37:26. > :37:32.go into small-scale opposition. Mark Durkan said, you pressed him on

:37:33. > :37:38.whether there would be coalition... A will not be joined up opposition,

:37:39. > :37:43.doesn't sound like it. I find that equally extraordinary because if

:37:44. > :37:50.they were able, for example, there are eight Shadow departmental roles,

:37:51. > :37:55.five to the UUP, three to the SDLP, they could offer a concerted

:37:56. > :38:03.opposition with some common ground, some common policy areas, and even

:38:04. > :38:09.in time perhaps some kind of shared platform they could, as it were,

:38:10. > :38:14.publish as adjunct to their own manifesto. As of tonight it doesn't

:38:15. > :38:18.sound like that is being considered. They could actually produce an

:38:19. > :38:22.alternative Programme for Government and could both talk about it. I

:38:23. > :38:26.think the issue for opposition is, been eight -- they need to make

:38:27. > :38:29.clear that opposition is not negative, a good Government needs a

:38:30. > :38:34.good opposition and they need to hold the Government to account to

:38:35. > :38:43.say, this is lax, inappropriate or inconsistent, and I think the public

:38:44. > :38:46.still feel opposition means they are here to be negative, to shout the

:38:47. > :38:51.loudest and get cheap political points. It is about coherence. It is

:38:52. > :38:55.the Government in waiting. What ever will make a deficient as if they

:38:56. > :38:56.have the resources to make it work. That is the fascinating thing, thank

:38:57. > :38:58.you very much. That's it from The View

:38:59. > :39:00.for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics

:39:01. > :39:03.at 11:35am here on BBC One. So, we've heard a lot

:39:04. > :39:14.about opposing sides, conflict, The Ulster Unionist Party centre

:39:15. > :39:17.stage today just as they were 18 years ago.