:00:00. > :00:00.It's the issue that simply will not go away -
:00:00. > :00:00.abortion law here is making the headlines yet again.
:00:07. > :00:09.Tonight on the The View, we ask -
:00:10. > :00:11.is this an issue that the Assembly cannot
:00:12. > :00:37.A senior doctor resigns her post, reports of a foetus in a cooler bag
:00:38. > :00:41.and a call for the Attorney General to resign.
:00:42. > :00:44.The issue of abortion and fatal foetal abnormality is back
:00:45. > :00:50.And after a failed attempt to reform the law in the last political
:00:51. > :00:52.term, I'll be asking the former Justice Minister, David Ford,
:00:53. > :00:55.and the veteran SDLP politician, Alban Maguinness, if Stormont can
:00:56. > :01:00.With a stream of allegations continuing
:01:01. > :01:04.to flow from the NAMA deal, the leader of Fianna Fail tells
:01:05. > :01:06.The View there needs to be an inquiry into the sale
:01:07. > :01:19.Notwithstanding the challenges, notwithstanding the fact that people
:01:20. > :01:25.might not wish to. Also tonight, amid the scenic
:01:26. > :01:27.beauty of North Antrim, a battle for power and influence
:01:28. > :01:30.is raging that could And back with us
:01:31. > :01:32.in Commentators' Corner I cant read his mind. He resigned
:01:33. > :01:40.because he was made to resign. And back with us
:01:41. > :01:42.in Commentators' Corner columnist Newton Emerson
:01:43. > :01:57.and Professor Deirdre Heenan. This is not abortion on demand, but
:01:58. > :02:02.that's the way it's being portrayed. The words of Doctor Caroline Gannon
:02:03. > :02:07.as she challenged politicians to break the deadlock on abortion law.
:02:08. > :02:12.Yesterday, she said her position had become untenable after a series of
:02:13. > :02:23.interior pensions under law surrounding termination of fatal
:02:24. > :02:27.fees or abnormality. First here is Doctor Gannon Colling on politicians
:02:28. > :02:33.to understand the trauma the law as it currently stands can cause some
:02:34. > :02:38.families. We are talking about termination of pregnancy in a very
:02:39. > :02:42.specific circumstance. It is only a very small number of cases each
:02:43. > :02:47.year. It is that one particular scenario that we are looking at.
:02:48. > :02:50.This is not going to become abortion on demand, but that's the way it's
:02:51. > :02:52.being presented in the media and that is the way that our MPs in
:02:53. > :03:06.Stormont are behaving. Thank you for joining us. Do you
:03:07. > :03:09.understand why Caroline Gannon resigned? She is a medical
:03:10. > :03:13.consultant. I don't know the full details of the way she factors, but
:03:14. > :03:19.I'm certainly aware of the difficulties experienced by a number
:03:20. > :03:24.of people in the fields due to the guidelines over a period of years.
:03:25. > :03:29.She said that the tipping point specifically in her case was the
:03:30. > :03:33.Attorney General John Larkin and she talks about his success of
:03:34. > :03:40.interventions on the issue of fatal fees shall abnormality. Do you think
:03:41. > :03:43.those two things add up? Is clear that in certain areas the Attorney
:03:44. > :03:49.General has acted beyond what we would expect him to. For example,
:03:50. > :03:54.the offer to conduct an enquiry on behalf of the Assembly committee was
:03:55. > :03:58.absolutely unprecedented and was turned down. There are issues with
:03:59. > :04:03.the Attorney General has shown a particular interest in some of these
:04:04. > :04:07.moral issues above and beyond what he might necessarily expect of the
:04:08. > :04:11.senior loft officer. What did you make of the specific case that
:04:12. > :04:16.Doctor Gannon talked about prompting her departure in which she had to
:04:17. > :04:26.provide eight coupled to bring a foetus back in the picnic bag? In my
:04:27. > :04:30.terms, in those circumstances where the foetus had been diagnosed with
:04:31. > :04:35.the fatal abnormality, the couple wish to know whether that would tap
:04:36. > :04:39.implications for future pregnancy. That's why they wanted a postmortem.
:04:40. > :04:42.They weren't able to have the treatment by doctors and other staff
:04:43. > :04:46.in need new at home. They had to travel to England. It's the
:04:47. > :04:54.travelling to England which I believe to be the major tragedy.
:04:55. > :04:58.People cold for Mr Larkin to resign for allowing his personal views to
:04:59. > :05:04.influence is legal judgment. That was the case that Eamon McCann put
:05:05. > :05:09.forward. Do you think that he should be considering his position tonight?
:05:10. > :05:13.He probably goes a little bit further than I would do in those
:05:14. > :05:17.circumstances. I do think there is another question, which is, why,
:05:18. > :05:20.when we know that reservations were expressed by at least some other
:05:21. > :05:24.ministers about the way John Larkin carried out his duties, where he was
:05:25. > :05:29.actually reappointed for a second term early late last year by the
:05:30. > :05:32.First Minister and the Deputy First Minister? And think that's a
:05:33. > :05:37.significant question which might be explored. But you don't bank on the
:05:38. > :05:54.current circumstances that he should resign?
:05:55. > :05:58.I certainly think you should consider the way in which he
:05:59. > :06:00.conducts his duties. He has clear duties, but there are other areas
:06:01. > :06:02.where he goes beyond his formal duties and shows his particular
:06:03. > :06:05.personal interests, as opposed to be purely legal issues which are his
:06:06. > :06:10.direct responsibility. So you think his personal views influenced his
:06:11. > :06:14.legal advice? I think his personal views are offended on legal
:06:15. > :06:17.precepts. You have to conduct an enquiry, he went beyond his duties
:06:18. > :06:25.in an area where he had personal concerns. By what he had said in the
:06:26. > :06:29.media before he ever became a and Attorney General. Can you see how
:06:30. > :06:36.other politicians make a connection between what looks like a personal
:06:37. > :06:42.worldview of our Attorney General John Larkin and his legal judgment?
:06:43. > :06:47.I can understand those arguments, but they are ill founded. First of
:06:48. > :06:53.all, John Larkin has very publicly and very honestly stated his view
:06:54. > :06:58.that he is pro life and I think you should be given credit for that.
:06:59. > :07:05.However, the point but John Larkin would make and I don't want to speak
:07:06. > :07:11.on his behalf, but I would reflect, the type of you he would express is
:07:12. > :07:16.this dash in a situation where the laws are uncertain read the laws
:07:17. > :07:21.have to be applied, where the laws must be applied, then it is right
:07:22. > :07:27.for him to intervene. The charge is that he has put on the record a
:07:28. > :07:31.series of interventions, a pattern of interventions where he seems to
:07:32. > :07:36.be particularly keen to get involved in cases where he thinks his
:07:37. > :07:39.personal view is of some relevance and matters of concern obviously to
:07:40. > :07:45.some people who don't necessarily share that view. The issue here is,
:07:46. > :07:53.as I understand from Doctor Gannon, he conducted an appeal on behalf of
:07:54. > :07:58.of the administration in relation to the abortion law case. That I
:07:59. > :08:06.believe was the correct thing for him to do and as I said previously,
:08:07. > :08:11.if he were pro-abortion, and he isn't, but if you were pro-abortion
:08:12. > :08:16.or indeed neutral on the issue, he should still have conducted an
:08:17. > :08:21.appeal. Why? Because this is such a fundamentally important issue for
:08:22. > :08:28.everybody, not just for John Larkin, but for everybody. All politicians
:08:29. > :08:31.and all members of the community. It is sawing Porton. And with the law
:08:32. > :08:39.was fundamentally changed by the decision, the judge is a very fine
:08:40. > :08:42.judge and he gave a very learning to judgment. Nonetheless, the law was
:08:43. > :08:47.still uncertain and it was right and proper for him to say, the law is
:08:48. > :08:50.uncertain and we must therefore appealed this case. Isn't that
:08:51. > :08:57.exactly the position at the Department of Justice to conjure you
:08:58. > :09:03.whenever you also became involved? Because he wanted to clarify the law
:09:04. > :09:07.as well. So, if the Attorney General acted wrongly, arguably studied the
:09:08. > :09:10.Department of Justice under the leadership of David Forde. I think
:09:11. > :09:15.if you look at the detail of what was admitted at those two appeals,
:09:16. > :09:19.you will find that what was that I was common to the Attorney General
:09:20. > :09:23.and the Department of Justice, but the Attorney General's appeal went
:09:24. > :09:27.somewhat beyond that. We were certainly seeking clarity on the
:09:28. > :09:37.basis that what Mr Justice was saying around fatal fees to
:09:38. > :09:40.abnormality was surrounding what I have proposed, was that there was a
:09:41. > :09:45.need for clarity around some other issues. It certainly seemed to me
:09:46. > :09:51.from the way I read it that he was opposed to any change whatsoever.
:09:52. > :09:55.There were similarities, but they weren't exactly the same. Do you
:09:56. > :10:01.accept that? They weren't exactly the same, but there were
:10:02. > :10:07.similarities. The other point is that in relation to sexual crime and
:10:08. > :10:11.abortion arising out of that, Mr Justice was saying that there could
:10:12. > :10:16.be abortion in those circumstances effectively. There was a
:10:17. > :10:21.consultation by the Department of Justice in relation to that, as a
:10:22. > :10:26.result of that David Ford and the department said, we will not pursue
:10:27. > :10:30.the issue of sexual crime, because we believe that there are serious
:10:31. > :10:35.difficulties. The point I go back to is the uncertainty of the law
:10:36. > :10:40.arising out of that decision. That has to be tested and has been tested
:10:41. > :10:45.properly Court of Appeal and, of course, David Ford then as minister
:10:46. > :10:50.did the same thing as the Attorney General. Maybe we will get the
:10:51. > :10:55.clarification from the Court of Appeal, the Dominion you are seeking
:10:56. > :11:03.now no longer as Minister of justice but as the backbench MLA to clarify
:11:04. > :11:08.this particular issue and you are now starting for the first time
:11:09. > :11:14.about the fact that that is in fact in the pipeline at Stormont. Yes.
:11:15. > :11:18.The Private member bills that we proposed but have not gone into
:11:19. > :11:23.detail. Can you tell us about it tonight? There has been a request
:11:24. > :11:27.for a formal drafting support for the bill on abortion which would go
:11:28. > :11:31.beyond any proposal that I am currently making an issue has to be
:11:32. > :11:37.resolved by the speaker as to which of us gets the support to do it.
:11:38. > :11:41.What would you like to do? What I want to do is exactly what I wanted
:11:42. > :11:44.to do as minister and was blocked by the Executive. With two of my
:11:45. > :11:49.colleagues it is an issue of conscience within the party. The
:11:50. > :11:56.proposal is something very much in line with what I would like to do
:11:57. > :12:00.which would allow abortion in the case of a foetus dying were two
:12:01. > :12:04.doctors have said no treatment other than palliative care could be
:12:05. > :12:08.offered. If you get the nod and you're able to proceed with that
:12:09. > :12:14.legislation, would you ever realistically hope to get it through
:12:15. > :12:19.and onto the books? That in a sense is not a question for me. I would
:12:20. > :12:23.have to support of all my party colleagues. It is an issue of
:12:24. > :12:31.conscience. There are clearly others and another of Sinn Fein who are
:12:32. > :12:35.saying they would support it. Whether all of his colleagues after
:12:36. > :12:41.an election would continue to vote against it except for one, I don't
:12:42. > :12:52.know. If there was a free vote, which was not given I suspect there
:12:53. > :12:58.is the potential for a majority. For that very narrow area. If you were
:12:59. > :13:02.an MLA still, would you support it? No, no, no. I wouldn't, because I
:13:03. > :13:14.believe that abortion is abortion. You cannot limit it. Anyway, in
:13:15. > :13:17.relation to a foetus dying, it is ill-defined and you cannot define
:13:18. > :13:21.it. You have to wait for the Court of Appeal is to make a decision and
:13:22. > :13:28.see what they say in relation to this issue. What do you say to those
:13:29. > :13:33.very few couples who are given a diagnosis of fatal foetus
:13:34. > :13:38.abnormality and do not want to go through with the pregnancy and are
:13:39. > :13:43.caught in an awful situation? I would have great sympathy for them.
:13:44. > :13:47.That is not much use. And think they need proper counselling and care in
:13:48. > :13:51.also consented. I believe that that is important and I believe that we
:13:52. > :13:59.must be compassionate and allusion to it, but we also have to... You're
:14:00. > :14:06.shaking your head. We must give counselling and care whatever the
:14:07. > :14:10.circumstances and if a woman feels she cannot carry to full-time, in
:14:11. > :14:14.those narrow circumstances, then I believe that abortion should be
:14:15. > :14:17.lawful within Northern Ireland rather than forcing women in those
:14:18. > :14:21.circumstances to travel to England and Scotland. And you don't make
:14:22. > :14:24.people should have a choice? I don't believe they should have that choice
:14:25. > :14:33.and I say that life is sacred and I believe that the life of the child
:14:34. > :14:36.should be protected. But we know in these very reckless circumstances
:14:37. > :14:40.this is a child which has the possibility of nose is attainable
:14:41. > :14:45.life. It may well be, but that child has every right to be born.
:14:46. > :14:48.A former Sinn Fein councillor, who resigned from the party over
:14:49. > :14:50.the way Daithi McKay was treated, has told this programme other
:14:51. > :14:52.party members are also considering their future.
:14:53. > :14:54.In his first interview since he and 17 others
:14:55. > :14:56.split from Sinn Fein, Paul Maguire claims Mr McKay
:14:57. > :14:59.was forced by the party to stand down from Stormont, after it emerged
:15:00. > :15:02.he had been coaching the loyalist Jamie Bryson on how to give evidence
:15:03. > :15:06.The Sinn Fein President, Gerry Adams, has told us the party
:15:07. > :15:08.intends to engage with the former members in
:15:09. > :15:31.Here's our Political Correspondent, Gareth Gordon.
:15:32. > :15:43.This is a corruption of the Assembly process. He made a terrible mistake.
:15:44. > :15:47.The Daithi McKay affair rocked Stormont and shook Sinn Fein,
:15:48. > :15:52.especially in North Antrim where long-term divisions became a
:15:53. > :15:59.rupture. 18 party members resigning in sympathy with their departed MLA.
:16:00. > :16:03.Of course, North Antrim as a setting for a battle over in ancient Rome, a
:16:04. > :16:07.seat and the Northern Ireland Assembly, is hardly a novel idea. It
:16:08. > :16:12.is not quite Game of Thrones but this little drama has attracted more
:16:13. > :16:16.than enough onlookers for the liking of Sinn Fein and it might not be
:16:17. > :16:20.over yet. This is Paul Maguire, former Sinn Fein councillor and for
:16:21. > :16:29.three years chairman of the party in North Antrim. This is his first
:16:30. > :16:32.broadcast interview since leaving. First question, did Daithi McKay act
:16:33. > :16:36.alone? Daithi McKay told me that no one senior to him was involved and
:16:37. > :16:40.Daithi McKay, to the best of my knowledge, has never told me a lie.
:16:41. > :16:46.Paul Maguire acknowledges that Sinn Fein have come through much worse
:16:47. > :16:50.than this and says there may be more resignations to come. Sinn Fein in
:16:51. > :16:55.North Antrim knows that the 18 people who resigned were significant
:16:56. > :17:03.in North Antrim. There are people left, but they would be more
:17:04. > :17:08.card-carrying members and activists. I know that there has been one
:17:09. > :17:15.further resignation and from what I can hear and from what I am told,
:17:16. > :17:19.there will be more to follow. Daithi McKay has said nothing publicly
:17:20. > :17:27.since his resignation, Paul Maguire doubts that he has a future in the
:17:28. > :17:32.party. I would find it impossible to think that Daithi McKay could or
:17:33. > :17:46.would be brought back into the party. Because of the way in which
:17:47. > :17:55.he was made to resign. And the attitude since his resignation. What
:17:56. > :18:02.do you mean by that? I am aware of communication between them and
:18:03. > :18:07.Daithi McKay and it has not been pleasant. Do you think this will
:18:08. > :18:13.harm Sinn Fein electorally in North Antrim? The biggest thing that will
:18:14. > :18:21.harm Sinn Fein electorally in North Antrim is the candidate. That is a
:18:22. > :18:30.reference to Philip McGuigan, the man co-opted to replace Daithi McKay
:18:31. > :18:33.as an MLA. If he had stood in Causeway Coast and Graham is a game
:18:34. > :18:43.as a counsellor, I do not think he would have got elected. I cannot see
:18:44. > :18:49.him being elected if he stands in 2020. As an MLA? As an MLA. Philip
:18:50. > :18:52.McGuigan was not available for interview but the party leader this
:18:53. > :18:57.week appeared to hold out an olive branch to the members who have gone.
:18:58. > :19:03.It is always a negative when people leave the party. We are going to
:19:04. > :19:08.engage with every single one of those former members and we hope
:19:09. > :19:12.that they will reflect and come back into the party, at least one has
:19:13. > :19:16.already done so and I hope others will also do so. What Daithi McKay
:19:17. > :19:24.did was wrong and the very fact that he resigned under the right thing
:19:25. > :19:27.his acknowledgement of that. This Sinn Fein watcher believes that
:19:28. > :19:32.Daithi McKay may still have a future in the party. The fact that he has
:19:33. > :19:36.not said anything publicly yet would lead me to believe that the door is
:19:37. > :19:40.still open for him to continue playing a part and I think it would
:19:41. > :19:46.be interesting to see if Sinn Fein can manage that and I think that
:19:47. > :19:48.would be some way of clawing back something out of this for the party
:19:49. > :19:53.if they were able to bring him back into the fold. Whatever happens to
:19:54. > :19:58.Daithi McKay, his friend Paul Maguire says his own 42 year
:19:59. > :20:00.association with Sinn Fein is over, for good.
:20:01. > :20:02.This evening, Sinn Fein emailed a statement to Gareth Gordon
:20:03. > :20:07.describing Paul Maguire's claims as, "nonsense with no basis in fact."
:20:08. > :20:10.It continues: "Daithi McKay resigned and stated clearly that his contact
:20:11. > :20:14.with Jamie Bryson was 'inappropriate" and 'wrong.'
:20:15. > :20:16.That was Daithi's decision and was the correct decision.
:20:17. > :20:18.This should not distract from the issue of fixers
:20:19. > :20:21.and insiders being involved in the events leading to the sale
:20:22. > :20:28.This evening the republic's political leaders have agreed
:20:29. > :20:30.on a statutory investigation into NAMA's sale of
:20:31. > :20:35.What exactly is to be investigated is still to be decided
:20:36. > :20:38.that'll be thrashed out in the coming weeks.
:20:39. > :20:40.The Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin spoke to me just
:20:41. > :20:42.before he went into that meeting this evening.
:20:43. > :20:45.I put to him the Taoiseach's concern that may be difficult to gain
:20:46. > :20:54.cooperation and information from Northern Ireland.
:20:55. > :21:03.I think we have to proceed independently of those who might not
:21:04. > :21:09.wish to co-operate. I have met with Mick Wallace sometime ago. I am not
:21:10. > :21:11.one for putting down motions for an investigation, you have to identify
:21:12. > :21:16.what you can achieve and what you cannot and there will be
:21:17. > :21:19.limitations. Notwithstanding the challenges, notwithstanding the fact
:21:20. > :21:26.that people might not wish to that in itself does not invalidate the
:21:27. > :21:31.idea that we should set up a commission of investigation. We have
:21:32. > :21:38.learned a lot to date, but suffers to say, that when substantial sums
:21:39. > :21:41.of money migrate into an offshore account, when we hear shocking
:21:42. > :21:48.revelations of the kind that we heard and saw last week in the BBC
:21:49. > :21:54.Spotlight programme, shocking revelations, you add to that the
:21:55. > :22:02.report in the Republic in terms of his assessment of the deal and the
:22:03. > :22:06.difference approach taken by NAMA to such a large property portfolio, to
:22:07. > :22:11.that of others that it sold, at the inability to really resolve the
:22:12. > :22:15.conflicts of interest involving Frank Cushnahan, there is no way
:22:16. > :22:21.that we can proceed without a statutory enquiry, in my view. You
:22:22. > :22:26.mentioned the shocking revelations in the Spotlight programme. Are you
:22:27. > :22:29.referring specifically to the part of the programme in which Frank
:22:30. > :22:35.Cushnahan was recorded accepting a cash payment of ?40,000 from a NAMA
:22:36. > :22:41.client in a hospital car park? Yes, that of course was a very shocking
:22:42. > :22:45.part of that programme, but there were other elements of the programme
:22:46. > :22:50.as well, in relation to the entire episode. I get the sense that there
:22:51. > :22:53.was a strong and I have to be careful what I say, because I think
:22:54. > :22:57.that is why we need a commission investigation, but there seem to be
:22:58. > :23:02.a political oversight in terms of what would happen to all of the
:23:03. > :23:07.distressed properties in Northern Ireland. There was an engagement
:23:08. > :23:12.with NAMA at a macro level may be, it was a portfolio that seems to
:23:13. > :23:16.have been handled differently to any other property portfolio that came
:23:17. > :23:25.under the remit of NAMA and I think it needs to be teased out. In the
:23:26. > :23:31.Republic as well, midway through, I desire by the Minister of Finance to
:23:32. > :23:36.accelerate NAMA's disposal of assets and that is something that needs to
:23:37. > :23:40.be examined. The decision for example, to sell all of the Northern
:23:41. > :23:45.properties in one portfolio in one go, that needs to be examined. What
:23:46. > :23:53.I cannot understand and I have said that already, when it emerged that
:23:54. > :23:58.the unit had defined the success fees of up to 1 million to be set
:23:59. > :24:07.aside, when that was established, why they did not call of the deal
:24:08. > :24:13.then, that is beyond me. It is the headaches of the entire deal that
:24:14. > :24:24.should matter to NAMA and the government,. I never believed that
:24:25. > :24:29.to be a tenable defence on behalf of NAMA or the Minister of Finance.
:24:30. > :24:33.There are many issues there and the whole other range of interesting
:24:34. > :24:36.insights to be gleaned from the spotlight programme and probably
:24:37. > :24:43.trails that could lead in many directions, but the conversation in
:24:44. > :24:48.the car park was quite shocking. Also, there are other revelations or
:24:49. > :24:52.assertions, which may be challenged by other individuals, but other
:24:53. > :24:57.individuals which were mentioned and referenced in a particular programme
:24:58. > :25:01.and that made for very disturbing viewing indeed. I understand why you
:25:02. > :25:06.say you need to be careful about what you say, but you have just used
:25:07. > :25:13.a very interesting phrase, you talked about political oversight in
:25:14. > :25:18.terms of the sale of the NAMA portfolio, what do you mean by
:25:19. > :25:23.political oversight? I tried to choose my words carefully, pulled
:25:24. > :25:25.political interest, engagement between the Northern Ireland
:25:26. > :25:31.Executive and ministers in the Executive and the Minister of
:25:32. > :25:35.Finance, for example, albeit at a macro level, but nonetheless, we
:25:36. > :25:42.need to examine the rationale for that, the motivation behind it. At
:25:43. > :25:46.one level, the people, given the size of the properties involved, may
:25:47. > :25:50.have been concerned about the impact on the Northern economy and that
:25:51. > :25:54.might have been the rationale put forward, but when you look at the
:25:55. > :25:59.Spotlight programme, you get a different sense, when you look at
:26:00. > :26:04.the work of Frank Cushnahan on the NAMA advisory committee, his
:26:05. > :26:10.interaction, you get a sense of what was going on here. I have spoken to
:26:11. > :26:15.Mick Wallace and others and what they are picking up is that there
:26:16. > :26:20.was a different kind of exercise. I'm not suggesting any wrongdoing,
:26:21. > :26:25.but nonetheless, I do not think there was the same level of
:26:26. > :26:29.political engagement in other property portfolios under the remit
:26:30. > :26:36.of NAMA as there was in relation to Northern Ireland, that there was
:26:37. > :26:42.engagement between the office of First Minister and Deputy First
:26:43. > :26:45.Minister, and NAMA. There are differing views here and how this
:26:46. > :26:51.matter to be investigated and the position of the DUP is that this is
:26:52. > :26:55.not a matter for politicians, it should be a matter for the police
:26:56. > :27:00.and in particular, the National Crime Agency an Arlene Foster has
:27:01. > :27:05.said that as far as she is concerned, she would not rule
:27:06. > :27:09.anything in or out as far as a commission of investigation is
:27:10. > :27:13.concerned, but the MCA investigation into the sale of the NAMA lumber,
:27:14. > :27:17.has to have primacy as far as she is concerned and only after it has
:27:18. > :27:23.reported, can we discuss anything else. How difficult does that make a
:27:24. > :27:27.two state approach to any further investigation that you are
:27:28. > :27:34.suggesting needs to happen? It makes it difficult. We do not want to
:27:35. > :27:37.undermine in any shape or form the work of the National Crime Agency or
:27:38. > :27:41.undermine the prospect of anyone being brought to justice if
:27:42. > :27:45.wrongdoing has been seen to have happened here in the context of that
:27:46. > :27:50.investigation. Nonetheless we have had experience in terms of the
:27:51. > :27:57.banking enquiry, a Parliamentary enquiry with statutory powers, to
:27:58. > :28:03.have an enquiry, without it affecting, criminal trials, that
:28:04. > :28:10.were underway in relation to certain banks here in the Republic. We are
:28:11. > :28:14.very clear in terms of the statutory investigation, not a political one,
:28:15. > :28:19.in our legislation, a commission of investigation would be independent
:28:20. > :28:24.of politics and in accordance with proper statute and law at and with
:28:25. > :28:30.due deference to people's rights and so on. And it is well within its
:28:31. > :28:34.reach to go as far as possibly can and it is our view that it could
:28:35. > :28:37.shed significant light on what has happened and give people an
:28:38. > :28:41.opportunity to give their presentations without undermining
:28:42. > :28:44.the work of the National Crime Agency. We would like to see
:28:45. > :28:50.something similar on a statutory basis within the North. Have already
:28:51. > :28:55.had the Assembly looking at this in terms of the Finance committee,
:28:56. > :28:59.there were issues of Sinn Fein coaching witnesses aren't you do not
:29:00. > :29:03.need that and that undermine that investigation. I think John Fleming
:29:04. > :29:08.has made some interesting suggestions, in terms of sharing the
:29:09. > :29:14.workload, complementing each other's work in terms of subsequent
:29:15. > :29:22.enquiries getting underway. It is in the interests of everyone in here
:29:23. > :29:27.and in Westminster to make sure that we use the statutory frameworks that
:29:28. > :29:35.we have in each jurisdiction to shed as much light as he possibly can on
:29:36. > :29:40.this episode on the sale of project Eagle given the sums of money
:29:41. > :29:44.involved and to make sure that the obligations of the state to our
:29:45. > :29:47.taxpayer are fully honoured at discharge.
:29:48. > :29:49.The Fianna Fail leader, Micheal Martin, talking
:29:50. > :29:51.to me earlier - and, of course, Frank Cushnahan has
:29:52. > :29:54.consistently denied any wrongdoing in relation to his role at NAMA.
:29:55. > :29:55.Let's hear what tonight's commentators make of
:29:56. > :30:01.With me are Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan.
:30:02. > :30:07.Welcome to you both. We now know the commission of investigation is going
:30:08. > :30:13.to happen, but there are still in full lot of detail to be thrashed
:30:14. > :30:16.out. I think it is interesting that a shaky coalition Government in the
:30:17. > :30:21.south has decided to go ahead with this. They are caught in between the
:30:22. > :30:27.controller and auditor general saying there is something wrong in
:30:28. > :30:30.Nam. A damning report. The Government are saying we expect
:30:31. > :30:34.this, but at the same time we have confidence in it. It's almost like
:30:35. > :30:39.they don't want to choose sides so they have decided to have an
:30:40. > :30:45.enquiry. I know that may sound cynical, but you cant support both
:30:46. > :30:49.sides here. Not like is it the case that the two jurisdictions involved
:30:50. > :30:54.in any subsequent investigation, potentially handers any
:30:55. > :30:58.investigation taking place? It doesn't need to. What hinders an
:30:59. > :31:02.investigation is that there are no criminal investigation is taking
:31:03. > :31:08.place on both sides of the border. NEMA have now called the guards and
:31:09. > :31:13.the criminal investigation gets under nobody apart from Jamie Bryson
:31:14. > :31:18.will testify to a Parliamentary committee, because they don't want
:31:19. > :31:23.in common it themselves. They have also told Stormont to stop working
:31:24. > :31:29.until the investigation is concluded and have refused an investigation to
:31:30. > :31:34.testify, because it knows that it would be a bad idea. It's not two
:31:35. > :31:38.jurisdictions, is multiple investigations going on there is the
:31:39. > :31:49.problem. It can only be at this bay finger-pointing. So when the say
:31:50. > :31:53.nothing can happen until it is over. You might see they say that because
:31:54. > :31:59.they have an agenda to cover it up, but they have told Stormont to stop
:32:00. > :32:02.investigation. I think the grandstanding is important, because
:32:03. > :32:05.I think in the Republic the taxpayers are concerned and they are
:32:06. > :32:08.realising that the taxpayers are concerned that their money has not
:32:09. > :32:13.been well spent and in the end they are the people who are going to have
:32:14. > :32:20.to pay for it. It is politicians pointing fingers at one another.
:32:21. > :32:25.They could call the police. The best way to get at the truth it was said
:32:26. > :32:31.today on camera is through DN see a investigation. You can believe
:32:32. > :32:36.Arlene Foster or not, but that is the end of parliamentary enquiries.
:32:37. > :32:41.They are just obstructions. What did you make of this phrase, as far as
:32:42. > :32:48.the sale of Project Eagle was concerned? He was intimating
:32:49. > :32:52.political interviews, but he didn't mention political parties. He is
:32:53. > :32:59.being careful, but there is huge concern. They are dancing between
:33:00. > :33:02.two jurisdictions. It was extraordinary how the bit back and
:33:03. > :33:06.said they did not accept it and said those people are not qualified to
:33:07. > :33:11.make the decisions. It is very unusual. Is talk about abortion. An
:33:12. > :33:15.interesting exchange between David Ford and Alban Maginness. Would you
:33:16. > :33:19.make about David Ford talking about his plans for a Private members
:33:20. > :33:23.Bill. We now know he is hoping that the way to square the circle. The
:33:24. > :33:28.last time you tried this is just as minister in cell, because he had to
:33:29. > :33:32.include sexual crime onto it, because that was Sinn Fein's policy.
:33:33. > :33:39.I think he's hoping now that Sinn Fein will help him with a narrow
:33:40. > :33:42.workers. It is all in the hands of Sinn Fein. They might not want to
:33:43. > :33:47.touch this, because they have their own problems with this controversy.
:33:48. > :33:52.It will depend on Arlene and whether or not they are allowed to free
:33:53. > :33:57.vote. He said that he almost had the support of all of his own party. It
:33:58. > :34:04.didn't show us with confidence. Do you get the sense that it is an
:34:05. > :34:09.issue where it MLAs cannot will not resolve the issue? Idol lingers any
:34:10. > :34:14.hope of as having a legal decision made. It is the social attitudes
:34:15. > :34:16.that are different. It is very toxic and divisive, if they can avoid it
:34:17. > :34:19.That's almost it from The View for this week.
:34:20. > :34:22.Join me for our first Sunday Politics of the new season
:34:23. > :34:26.But before we go, it's the story that's set
:34:27. > :34:28.US Presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, collapsed
:34:29. > :34:30.at the weekend, but was seen looking fit and well
:34:31. > :34:34.though not everyone was convinced by her rapid recovery.
:34:35. > :34:44.It may be the wildest conspiracy theory of the year, Hillary Clinton
:34:45. > :35:05.with a body double. The most insane conspiracy theory
:35:06. > :35:11.you have ever heard. The body double believers pointed out physical
:35:12. > :35:21.differences, saying the real Hillary had different index fingers.