:00:00. > :00:00.As the dispute over Twaddell looks like its entering its final phase,
:00:00. > :00:07.tonight on The View, we're asking what it'll take
:00:08. > :00:33.It's been a major disruption in North Belfast for three years,
:00:34. > :00:36.running up a massive policing bill, but this weekend could
:00:37. > :00:44.see the last act in the Twaddell Avenue dispute.
:00:45. > :00:49.It was goodwill from all those concerned and that is the essential
:00:50. > :00:53.ingredient in terms of making this work. The deal was pretty much laid
:00:54. > :00:54.out and the road map. I'll be asking a former chairman
:00:55. > :00:57.of the Parades Commission if he's convinced this issue
:00:58. > :00:59.is now, finally, resolved. Plus, Enda Kenny's convening
:01:00. > :01:01.all-Ireland talks on Brexit. I'll be asking the DUP why it
:01:02. > :01:04.won't be at the table - Why a DUP Minister said
:01:05. > :01:12."nada" to the fada. And with their thoughts -
:01:13. > :01:15.in whatever language they prefer - our commentary team of
:01:16. > :01:22.Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan. The agreement between
:01:23. > :01:23.the Orange Order and the Crumlin-Ardoyne Residents'
:01:24. > :01:25.Association has cleared the way for the Ligoneil Orangemen
:01:26. > :01:27.to complete the return leg In return, the loyalist protest camp
:01:28. > :01:35.at Twaddell will be dismantled - and a senior Orangeman has told this
:01:36. > :01:38.programme that his members are fully committed to direct dialogue
:01:39. > :01:40.with residents to secure a long-term solution and he wants those talks
:01:41. > :01:43.to begin within weeks. So what are the chances of putting
:01:44. > :01:46.a deal in place which will last? Our Political Correspondent,
:01:47. > :02:12.Enda McClafferty, has for almost 1200 days that has stood
:02:13. > :02:19.as a symbol of defiance. The Orangemen took a stand and refuse to
:02:20. > :02:23.walk away. That led to a three-year stand-off and a policing Bill of
:02:24. > :02:29.over ?20 million. Come Saturday it will all disappear and the makeshift
:02:30. > :02:35.Twaddell camp will be dismantled, if all goes according to plan. Taking
:02:36. > :02:41.down the flanks is the easy part. The big challenge will come not so
:02:42. > :02:46.much from taking down but building up. The trust to ensure the promises
:02:47. > :02:51.made Arquette and that the agreement calls over the weekend. So what will
:02:52. > :02:57.it take to make this deal step and what lessons if any can be drawn
:02:58. > :03:02.from resolutions elsewhere. I believe this will stick because
:03:03. > :03:04.there was an appetite to find a resolution. Leaders goodwill from
:03:05. > :03:10.all those concerned that that is the essential ingredient. Once the
:03:11. > :03:13.parade goes home the deal is pretty much laid out and everyone will
:03:14. > :03:21.follow that. I believe the institution will not be found
:03:22. > :03:23.wanting in the position it takes in supporting the Ligoneil Orangemen,
:03:24. > :03:30.and indirect dialogue with the residents. And that according to
:03:31. > :03:36.this man is the key building block and resolving contentious parades.
:03:37. > :03:44.From that part right up along the wall over to the side, on this side
:03:45. > :03:50.is the contentious part. Millions of pounds worth of damage and people
:03:51. > :03:56.were killed. Michael Doherty mediated in the early days of the
:03:57. > :04:04.dispute. There were similarities and one of the similarities, you can see
:04:05. > :04:09.there is a way it can be done, but both parties have to trust each
:04:10. > :04:14.other to deliver. The test will be, after Saturday comes along, if those
:04:15. > :04:19.relationships continue to be built upon. There are other similarities.
:04:20. > :04:27.Key to the deal in north Belfast is the selling off of a forum bringing
:04:28. > :04:31.the residents together along with interested parties. That is what
:04:32. > :04:42.happened in the early 18 years ago. I can remember hem swivelling in his
:04:43. > :04:46.chair so I was talking to his back which was totally unacceptable. I
:04:47. > :04:59.have to say, is that no longer happens. Is there a trust now? Not
:05:00. > :05:05.100% but that is genuine engagement where we arrive at an accommodation
:05:06. > :05:12.and we are confident people will do their level best to ensure that is
:05:13. > :05:16.adhered to. The big challenge for the apprentice boys back then as it
:05:17. > :05:19.is for the Orange order in Belfast, convincing they are all in that
:05:20. > :05:26.sitting down with nationalist residents is not a sell-out. This
:05:27. > :05:33.association wishes to state our firm intention to walk the city walls at
:05:34. > :05:41.a time of our own choosing. We have nobody to talk for us but going down
:05:42. > :05:48.a slippery slope of not talking, it was a situation. About 10% of the
:05:49. > :05:56.apprentice boys then back the leadership. There wouldn't even be
:05:57. > :06:02.10% against, but it takes time. How would you describe the relationship
:06:03. > :06:15.now between the orders and the residents? It is getting there. Just
:06:16. > :06:18.like in Derry back then they are happy to take a step back. In a
:06:19. > :06:25.statement approving the parade, the commission said the agreement
:06:26. > :06:28.between the Orange order and the area presents an opportunity for a
:06:29. > :06:34.resolution of the decades parading disputes, but the mark showers will
:06:35. > :06:36.face opposition from the residents collective who are planning a
:06:37. > :06:49.protest on Friday night and Saturday morning. Why they are opposed to
:06:50. > :06:53.this yet there was two a couple of weeks ago. I don't think it's
:06:54. > :06:57.helpful and it is cranking up tension. The only thing cranking up
:06:58. > :07:03.tension as the imposition of this parade on Saturday morning. The
:07:04. > :07:05.parade was dead and Sinn Fein enters its the facilitators and others
:07:06. > :07:10.involved in the protest on the loyalist said have resurrected it
:07:11. > :07:22.effectively. Has it all been worth it? Saturday morning at 8:30 a.m.,
:07:23. > :07:25.the objective will be achieved and Saturday morning will be the
:07:26. > :07:31.beginning of a new future of parading in north Belfast. The first
:07:32. > :07:34.test of the new agreement will come on Saturday when 200 Orangemen will
:07:35. > :07:40.attempt to complete a march they started three years ago. The real
:07:41. > :07:43.test will come in ten months when the local lodges set then to set out
:07:44. > :07:45.the road map for the 12th of July parades.
:07:46. > :07:48.And the former Parades Commission chair, Peter Osborne,
:07:49. > :07:52.Peter, the stakes are clearly high here.
:07:53. > :07:54.Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly was prepared to discuss the issue
:07:55. > :07:56.on the programme tonight, but we couldn't get a single
:07:57. > :08:01.What does that tell you about how careful people
:08:02. > :08:15.I am hearing two things from that and the report. From the report,
:08:16. > :08:19.some very positive vibes about a new future for parading in north
:08:20. > :08:24.Belfast. If you asked people 56 years ago they would have said there
:08:25. > :08:27.was no hope will be resolution, one of the most difficult and
:08:28. > :08:32.contentious parades, and that will bring huge benefits to local people
:08:33. > :08:37.and Northern Ireland as a whole, to know we can sort these things out.
:08:38. > :08:44.It has taken a few years but the context is set and we are on the
:08:45. > :08:50.cusp of doing something important. We know of course that is another
:08:51. > :08:57.residents group, GARC, who are not happy with the agreement. There is a
:08:58. > :08:57.parade tomorrow night and also a demonstration, counter demonstration
:08:58. > :08:59.on Saturday morning. Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly has called
:09:00. > :09:02.on GARC to cancel its planned The SDLP's Nichola Mallon has called
:09:03. > :09:18.on GARC to reconsider its decision. There is obviously a lot of
:09:19. > :09:22.nervousness on the ground and two very different narratives of what
:09:23. > :09:26.has happened. That is nervousness because this is a significant issue
:09:27. > :09:29.which is hopeful it going to be resolved and the weekend will be
:09:30. > :09:33.another big step towards that resolutions that is understandable.
:09:34. > :09:37.People obviously have a right to protest and it would be helpful if
:09:38. > :09:41.that didn't happen but the fact of the matter is we've got to
:09:42. > :09:44.acknowledge the vision and the courage of the local lodges and
:09:45. > :09:48.others for coming to this agreement and we have to acknowledge the
:09:49. > :09:57.resilience of the police and the commitment of the mediators and we
:09:58. > :10:01.have to acknowledge also the decisions and the contributions of
:10:02. > :10:04.the Parades Commission, so we are the cusp of doing something bought
:10:05. > :10:08.it and it is important everyone weighs in on supports it and does
:10:09. > :10:14.what they can to get us over the line at the weekend. Is it your view
:10:15. > :10:19.that if we get over this bump on the road that is this weekend, once that
:10:20. > :10:26.is overcome, it could be relatively plain sailing in future? Nothing is
:10:27. > :10:31.plain sailing. Still a lot of work to be done? Work to be done over
:10:32. > :10:40.many years for parading as a whole, even just looking at Londonderry.
:10:41. > :10:45.The piece from 2001, 2002, really important, and 15 years on the still
:10:46. > :10:50.working on that. And some would say the hard work only really begins
:10:51. > :10:55.after this weekend. It is important that people have too want to have
:10:56. > :11:00.the agreement and do that work. Motivation is really important.
:11:01. > :11:02.Dialogue and relationship building. Relationships are important, and
:11:03. > :11:07.none of those things stop and they have to be worked at for years and
:11:08. > :11:11.years and I think that'll be the case in north Belfast. We need to
:11:12. > :11:16.get the weekend over and the forecast setup, we need to get
:11:17. > :11:20.resources into that area, and both sides of the community really want
:11:21. > :11:28.everybody to be working this through because it is and their interests
:11:29. > :11:32.and to their benefit. The truth of the matter, when you listen to the
:11:33. > :11:36.apprentice boys, 20 years on, they are still not completely there are
:11:37. > :11:41.and it is still hard work to be done to keep things on an even keel.
:11:42. > :11:45.People meet up and discuss these issues regularly and that
:11:46. > :11:49.relationship goes on and there are new people involved than those
:11:50. > :11:54.relationships develop new people, so it is an ongoing process and that is
:11:55. > :11:57.the reality. These are difficult issues and don't find resolution
:11:58. > :12:01.easily and we need to acknowledge the tremendous work that has gone on
:12:02. > :12:03.so far with the people involved and hopefully this agreement that
:12:04. > :12:06.full-spectrum but it needs to continue to be worked at for years
:12:07. > :12:10.and years and evidently must acknowledge and recognise that
:12:11. > :12:15.including political representatives on all sides and government and
:12:16. > :12:18.civil society and faith -based leaders, because this will need the
:12:19. > :12:25.support of all those people to make it work now, next year, in five and
:12:26. > :12:29.ten years' time. Following that narrative logically, if there was a
:12:30. > :12:33.model in Derry which is now being applied to north Belfast with some
:12:34. > :12:37.hope of success, does that mean logically that model could be used
:12:38. > :12:41.as a template to solve other disputed areas which have still to
:12:42. > :12:47.be resolved, like for example Drumcree. Derry Londonderry people
:12:48. > :12:52.will tell you it is not a model as such but there have been principles
:12:53. > :12:56.are applied in a number of areas and in those areas were parading with
:12:57. > :13:00.contentious over the last ten or 15 years you something studying about.
:13:01. > :13:04.That is because it has moved on, the has been progress, and the same
:13:05. > :13:09.principles apply to have been applied elsewhere as well. People
:13:10. > :13:11.wanted to make progress and there was dialogue and leadership and that
:13:12. > :13:17.led to progress. For now, thank you. Deirdre and Newton, thoughts on
:13:18. > :13:26.the weekend? When you look at the table and the
:13:27. > :13:32.blood we have travelled, are you optimistic, do you think there is an
:13:33. > :13:35.application of the positive experiences from Derry that can be
:13:36. > :13:40.applied to north Belfast? To some extent the errors and the big thing
:13:41. > :13:43.that came out is the will to find a resolution that seems to me to be
:13:44. > :13:49.the underlying principle. You might see the dynamic between Derry and
:13:50. > :13:54.north Belfast is very different. You are talking about the city centre in
:13:55. > :13:57.Derry can be largely nationalist city, and in many ways bill is not a
:13:58. > :14:01.model that is translatable, but the key thing as there was a will to
:14:02. > :14:05.find the resolution and people got together to talk about it. All
:14:06. > :14:09.politics is local and this is very much a local dispute with local
:14:10. > :14:10.actors, relationships and the resolution has got to be agreed
:14:11. > :14:19.locally. Well there might be a lot of people
:14:20. > :14:22.in north Belfast to want to see the printable that were established and
:14:23. > :14:25.applied in Derry also applied to north Belfast, and a positive
:14:26. > :14:30.outcome to come from that, not everyone in north Belfast sees this
:14:31. > :14:34.template as the solution? That is the difficulty.
:14:35. > :14:38.I think that this deal is a good deal, and it should work, but that's
:14:39. > :14:41.because the compromise as necessary so obvious. From the moment this
:14:42. > :14:45.dispute began. Of course, the Orange Order would have to compromise and
:14:46. > :14:49.talk with residents. The longer that went on, the yard of a compromise
:14:50. > :14:53.was going to be, but that was the only variable. I think what has been
:14:54. > :14:56.exposed by this is the vacuum of unionist political leadership,
:14:57. > :14:59.because it appears that the decisive factor in bringing the Orange Order
:15:00. > :15:04.to its senses were loyalist paramilitaries. If that's what it
:15:05. > :15:08.took, so be it, but how pathetic for unionism as a whole that the two
:15:09. > :15:12.main parties appear to in public have stepped back and let this
:15:13. > :15:15.happen. Perhaps there were efforts behind the scenes. And not fully
:15:16. > :15:18.aware of that, but there had never been public statements made to the
:15:19. > :15:22.Orange Order that this dispute was doomed, that it was sending people
:15:23. > :15:25.to prison, that it was definitely going to end in a deal like this,
:15:26. > :15:28.but it was only going to get harder as time went on.
:15:29. > :15:32.And they still need to say that. If you want this longer term deal
:15:33. > :15:36.you're talking about, unionist political leadership has to step up.
:15:37. > :15:41.I accept your analysis. Just a final thought from you, Deirdre. If we do
:15:42. > :15:45.get over this hump, as suggested, would you be optimistic that
:15:46. > :15:48.whatever lessons are learned in north Belfast can also be applied
:15:49. > :15:52.elsewhere? Yes, I would be optimistic, but I
:15:53. > :15:55.think we have to be realistic. To go back to the package Alistair Simpson
:15:56. > :15:59.has taught you about, we're getting and 15-16 years later. It is a
:16:00. > :16:03.process, which will not be soft on Saturday. We have to accept that
:16:04. > :16:08.would let their relationship build and not reach the crisis we have got
:16:09. > :16:12.to the stage. As you say, it involves leadership at all levels,
:16:13. > :16:15.community levels, but also our political leaders need to say, in
:16:16. > :16:21.the package, they were asked if it is worth it, and we have had a lot
:16:22. > :16:23.of focus on the financials, but socially and culturally, Northern
:16:24. > :16:24.Ireland and the image of Northern Ireland are suffering because of
:16:25. > :16:32.this. Thank you both very much indeed.
:16:33. > :16:34.And we'll hear more from Deirdre and Newton later.
:16:35. > :16:37.Now, they say it's good to talk, and the Taoiseach, Enda Kenny,
:16:38. > :16:40.seems determined to persist with his plan to set up a forum
:16:41. > :16:42.to discuss the impact of the EU referendum.
:16:43. > :16:44.Mr Kenny announced plans for what he called an all-Ireland
:16:45. > :16:45."conversation" on Brexit earlier this week, involving
:16:46. > :16:48.business people, members of civic society and political parties.
:16:49. > :16:55.Our intention here is to protect this country's vital national
:16:56. > :17:00.interests in these talks. A great deal of confusion out there at the
:17:01. > :17:05.moment, not only in Britain, but also in Europe, arising indeed from
:17:06. > :17:11.the meeting I attended recently in practice lava. I have asked every
:17:12. > :17:14.minister to engage with their counterparts in Northern Ireland in
:17:15. > :17:19.respect of the forthcoming session. I have do accept it is the
:17:20. > :17:23.Democratic results from the electorate of the United Kingdom, so
:17:24. > :17:30.I will give you the details are soon as we have them finalised. We will
:17:31. > :17:35.have the voice of Northern Ireland business, agriculture, and people,
:17:36. > :17:41.in regard to their views as to what they consider might happen, and the
:17:42. > :17:45.implications the Northern Ireland as well. For us here, I have made it
:17:46. > :17:48.perfectly clear bow to the Prime Minister when I met her in Downing
:17:49. > :17:52.Street, and the European council, that Ireland will argue very
:17:53. > :17:55.vehemently for the continued recognition of the peace process and
:17:56. > :18:04.the support that has brought, but also in respect to the critical
:18:05. > :18:08.juncture this country is at in terms of maintaining our part of the
:18:09. > :18:09.United Kingdom, but speaking as a country that would play a central
:18:10. > :18:10.part of the EU. That was the Taoiseach Enda Kenny
:18:11. > :18:12.responding to a question from the Sinn Fein leader
:18:13. > :18:14.Gerry Adams in the Dail The Ulster Unionists have told
:18:15. > :18:18.The View they won't be involved in the discussions,
:18:19. > :18:21.and nor did they want to take part here tonight, but with me
:18:22. > :18:23.are the DUP's Edwin Poots and the deputy leader
:18:24. > :18:25.of the Alliance Party, Naomi Long. You are both welcome to the
:18:26. > :18:27.programme. Edwin, the DUP has made
:18:28. > :18:29.clear its opposition to any such conversation -
:18:30. > :18:32.but what have you to fear from an all-island discussion
:18:33. > :18:41.on such an important issue? It is not so much what we have to
:18:42. > :18:46.fear is what we would have to gain from engaging in this. You don't
:18:47. > :18:49.know until you take part, I suppose is the argument.
:18:50. > :18:53.To have the opportunity is already to have discussions around Brexit
:18:54. > :18:56.through the north- South ministerial council, and discussions did take
:18:57. > :19:02.place at the last meeting of the NSM C. So the creation of another body,
:19:03. > :19:06.another all Ireland Forum, would appear to be something that is more
:19:07. > :19:10.and Kenny dealing with pressures within his own country than actually
:19:11. > :19:17.arriving at solid conclusions about Brexit. So our conversations are
:19:18. > :19:20.largely at this stage going to be with UK ministers, through MPs and
:19:21. > :19:23.our Executive team, and those conversations are taking place, and
:19:24. > :19:26.will continue to take place, and that is where the real action is
:19:27. > :19:32.going to be, not some talking shop in Dublin.
:19:33. > :19:35.So nothing to gain, is Edwin Poots' point?
:19:36. > :19:37.That is a foolhardy point. There is everything to gain from being
:19:38. > :19:41.involved in those discussions. Let's be clear, the reason the DUP don't
:19:42. > :19:43.want to be at the table in these discussions is because they don't
:19:44. > :19:47.want the other Northern Ireland parties who take a different view on
:19:48. > :19:53.Brexit included in those discussions. Why the Ulster Unionist
:19:54. > :19:56.Party participate and withdraw themselves from a place where they
:19:57. > :20:01.could have some influence is absolutely beyond comprehension, but
:20:02. > :20:04.I know that if Alliance are invited to the table, we will go alone make
:20:05. > :20:07.a strong case in Northern Ireland. It is fine to say we'll talk to the
:20:08. > :20:11.British government, and we absolutely sure. They will have a
:20:12. > :20:15.formal role of representing Northern Ireland's position in the subsequent
:20:16. > :20:19.negotiations. However, it is in our interests given the uniqueness of
:20:20. > :20:22.Northern Ireland to have friends in Europe with whom we are negotiating,
:20:23. > :20:27.who are actually also batting for our corner. So it would be madness
:20:28. > :20:31.for us not to be working closely with the Irish government, given the
:20:32. > :20:35.degree to which our two economies are interlinked, our two communities
:20:36. > :20:39.are interlinked, and to which we actually in need to address the
:20:40. > :20:42.issue having a land border. And I do not understand what reason anyone
:20:43. > :20:46.would have not engaging in this conversations at a time like this.
:20:47. > :20:50.How do you respond to that? Makes no sense whatsoever to rule yourselves
:20:51. > :20:52.out of what could be a very important conversation.
:20:53. > :20:55.We already have a forum for doing that, the NSM C.
:20:56. > :20:57.This is a different kind of conversation.
:20:58. > :21:01.Moving away from this to something which is merely a talking shop,
:21:02. > :21:04.and... 'S iMac that is very dismissive of
:21:05. > :21:07.the business community. It is not something we wish to
:21:08. > :21:13.engage in. And Kenny made the point in the Dail
:21:14. > :21:18.that this is going to give an opportunity for agribusiness north
:21:19. > :21:21.and south, meat producers, beef and pork producers, industry, financial
:21:22. > :21:24.services and health to take part in a conversation. These are the people
:21:25. > :21:30.you represent, the people you work with and claim vote for the DUP. Why
:21:31. > :21:32.would you want to cut them out of that important conversation?
:21:33. > :21:36.Many of them voted to leave the EU as well.
:21:37. > :21:39.There are implications of all them that this is an?
:21:40. > :21:44.Let's be very clear. The DUP will be engaging with all the key players
:21:45. > :21:48.when it comes to Brexit, and particularly with the UK ministers
:21:49. > :21:51.who are negotiating our exit from the European Union, and we were
:21:52. > :21:56.being gauging with colleagues across the border who do not need to
:21:57. > :22:01.establish another body to do it. -- we will be. Naomi is not part of the
:22:02. > :22:04.NSMC. She could have been decided to walk away from the Executive. Given
:22:05. > :22:09.what happened subsequently, I think there was a decision. They blame the
:22:10. > :22:12.Ulster Unionist Party what went in to be somewhere where there is
:22:13. > :22:15.influence when they want away from a position of influence themselves.
:22:16. > :22:18.There was no opportunity to influence we establish that before
:22:19. > :22:22.Nadal decision, in knots were Les not rehearse that decision. This is
:22:23. > :22:26.an opportunity to bring together all of those sectors. None of the people
:22:27. > :22:29.you mentioned are representative of the NSMC, and the reason the DUP
:22:30. > :22:33.aren't comfortable with the idea of widening this discussion is because
:22:34. > :22:36.many of those people may well have voted for Brexit, but the majority
:22:37. > :22:39.of people in Northern Ireland did not, and I think that is the issue,
:22:40. > :22:44.and it is not doing enough EU to talk about, Edwin, what the DUP will
:22:45. > :22:46.do. You are a member of the government in Northern Ireland, part
:22:47. > :22:53.of an Executive, and your leadership cannot even be jointly with the
:22:54. > :22:56.British ministers who are dealing with Brexit when they come to
:22:57. > :22:59.discuss the issue, because Sinn Fein and the DUP are not in the same
:23:00. > :23:02.place. Having a wider discussion that engages in a practical level
:23:03. > :23:06.people with experience and expertise to bring to the debate would make
:23:07. > :23:09.absolute sense when there is a vacuum of leadership from the
:23:10. > :23:13.Executive. The United Kingdom will be
:23:14. > :23:16.negotiating this issue will European Union.
:23:17. > :23:19.But you will have a very small voice as far as the United Kingdom
:23:20. > :23:22.negotiation is concerned. That is a fact.
:23:23. > :23:24.We may have a small voice, but we will have a voice.
:23:25. > :23:26.You would have a bigger voice if you were in Dublin and part of that
:23:27. > :23:32.conversation. That is a valid argument -- I'm not
:23:33. > :23:37.sure that is a valid argument. When Theresa May was elected by
:23:38. > :23:39.minister, she went straight to Holyrood and met with the First
:23:40. > :23:42.Minister of Scotland and then went on a tour of Europe, and then
:23:43. > :23:45.finally, out of almost embarrassment, came to Northern
:23:46. > :23:49.Ireland to consult the directive, so let's not be under any illusions
:23:50. > :23:52.that we will be driving the Brexit negotiations in the UK, but what we
:23:53. > :23:55.can have our other friendly voices at the table in Europe with whom we
:23:56. > :23:58.are negotiating, actually making our case as well.
:23:59. > :24:02.Why would you not want to do that? Why would you want to further
:24:03. > :24:05.marginalise Northern Ireland's voice, in whatever conversations
:24:06. > :24:08.about taking place? We are not marginalised, I can
:24:09. > :24:11.assure you. Our members of Parliament in particular have been
:24:12. > :24:16.engaged in discussions with very senior people within the ministry in
:24:17. > :24:21.in the United Kingdom, and our voice is by no means marginal. We have a
:24:22. > :24:24.key voice to make here, we have key issues to raise. Northern Ireland is
:24:25. > :24:28.different in many ways from other parts of the UK. We are much more
:24:29. > :24:32.reliant on agriculture, for example. But there are a lot of reasons to
:24:33. > :24:34.actually take place. All discussions will be taking
:24:35. > :24:39.place. Why would you not want to go down to
:24:40. > :24:42.Dublin to hear what other people had to say, to listen to what they had
:24:43. > :24:46.to say, and to make sure that they understand fully the opposition? I
:24:47. > :24:49.don't understand what it is that you have to fear from that situation.
:24:50. > :24:53.As I said, we had nothing to fear. And why not do it? If you're a
:24:54. > :24:55.self-confident unionist, why would you not do that?
:24:56. > :24:57.We have nothing to gain. But you don't know if you do not
:24:58. > :25:02.take part. There is a great short space of
:25:03. > :25:06.time. Remember, these talks are being called sometime in November,
:25:07. > :25:09.and we're looking at the potential for article 50 being triggered in
:25:10. > :25:12.January. So we have a very short space of time with all of the people
:25:13. > :25:21.that you are talking about being involved in this, I would expect.
:25:22. > :25:25.So let me see if we can boil it down. You really care what Northern
:25:26. > :25:30.Remainer is pink, tough luck, and a spiral impact in the people in the
:25:31. > :25:32.Republic of Brexit, that is not your problem?
:25:33. > :25:37.Anything that is your terminology, not mine. We care very much about
:25:38. > :25:42.what think in Northern Ireland. There are DUP voters, and they
:25:43. > :25:45.obviously voted to Remain. Potentially DUP ministers he wrote
:25:46. > :25:50.even tell is how they voted. Of course we care how they voted. We
:25:51. > :25:55.will seek to ensure that Northern Ireland gets the best possible deal
:25:56. > :25:58.when the UK exes Europe, but we're not going to engage in silly things
:25:59. > :26:01.like the other parties, like trying to overrule the will of the people
:26:02. > :26:05.by taking it to court. If you really care what people
:26:06. > :26:09.fought in the Republic, would you not go down to the public, not to
:26:10. > :26:11.have a debate in argument, just a conversation?
:26:12. > :26:14.We have already been having conversations with the Republic, and
:26:15. > :26:19.we will continue to do so. What about the point that there is
:26:20. > :26:22.no need for a new forum? We have a British- Irish parliamentary body,
:26:23. > :26:26.with the NSMC, and Arlene Foster made it very clever this July that
:26:27. > :26:29.if she has a problem when she first knocked this idea down when the
:26:30. > :26:32.Taoiseach first raise it, I don't knew this, because at any time, I
:26:33. > :26:36.can pick up the phone to end their canny and have a conversation? To
:26:37. > :26:41.leisure analysis very? That a simple another case.
:26:42. > :26:45.But that is what she said. While the Executive were on holiday
:26:46. > :26:50.and not doing anything to prepare for Brexit, others amongst us were
:26:51. > :26:54.out there talking to business, talking to universities, about the
:26:55. > :26:58.challenges they face. I have to say, it is very dismissive of the DUP to
:26:59. > :27:01.assume that people in those sorts of sectors would give up their time and
:27:02. > :27:05.energy for something that was no more than a talking shop. They are
:27:06. > :27:08.doing it because they recognise that this is the single biggest risk to
:27:09. > :27:14.their future. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will all be
:27:15. > :27:17.bad news. You are such a tiny, irrelevant
:27:18. > :27:21.party now that you will take any platform to get your voice heard,
:27:22. > :27:25.that is what it boils down to? Absolutely not. It is important
:27:26. > :27:28.because the people voted for me did so on the basis that I was in favour
:27:29. > :27:32.of Europe, and I want to continue to make sure that whatever happens with
:27:33. > :27:37.Northern Ireland's future, it is not that clear cut. You may think that
:27:38. > :27:40.people are taking silly court cases to try to overturn democratic will.
:27:41. > :27:43.That is not the case. What we're trying to do is clarify what Brexit
:27:44. > :27:48.will actually mean in constitutional terms from Northern Ireland. If the
:27:49. > :27:51.best the British Promina minister can do is Brexit means Brexit,
:27:52. > :27:55.clearly nobody has the first clue. -- Prime Minister.
:27:56. > :27:59.So you will not accept democracy? I do except that. What we're talking
:28:00. > :28:03.about... Had it been the other way round, you
:28:04. > :28:08.would have challenged it in God. Well, that is nonsense. The Good
:28:09. > :28:13.Friday Agreement, you fought every step of the way. The entrance into
:28:14. > :28:18.Europe was endorsed by a public vote, and you fought it at every
:28:19. > :28:23.step of the way. So I will be taking lectures from the DUP about when to
:28:24. > :28:29.give up on issues. You should go back and read your history.
:28:30. > :28:34.The fact that he does not want to tell you but really to the suspicion
:28:35. > :28:37.that he may have voted to Remain, which is at odds with party policy
:28:38. > :28:41.boss about embarrassing, isn't it? Why doesn't he just tell people?
:28:42. > :28:46.I haven't had that conversation with him. How did you vote? I voted to
:28:47. > :28:51.leave. But the economy minister can give me the same simple answer a
:28:52. > :28:56.week ago in the studio. The DUP have a position on this, and
:28:57. > :29:00.that is, we're supporting leaving. The economy will be negotiating that
:29:01. > :29:03.matter the economy minister will negotiate on our behalf.
:29:04. > :29:07.It is not about getting the best deal, and being at the table will
:29:08. > :29:14.ensure that we get the best deal. I only raise this. Quickly, what was
:29:15. > :29:21.your party doing renaming a boat from Irish to English, from Banrion
:29:22. > :29:26.Uladh to Queen of Ulster? Thought you were agreeing to run the country
:29:27. > :29:29.to the Batiment and everybody? I think everybody in Northern
:29:30. > :29:32.Ireland will know Queen of Ulster means. I suspect not of a body in
:29:33. > :29:37.Northern Ireland will no whatever it was that you read out.
:29:38. > :29:38.I thought you now agreed your going to work together. This is an example
:29:39. > :29:52.perhaps of the mass slipping? She has made the decision and I am
:29:53. > :29:57.fairly supportive of the decision. It is an example of fiddling while
:29:58. > :30:04.Rome burns. Sitting around with what you call the ship is a waste. It is
:30:05. > :30:08.very dependent on the European market and that is what you should
:30:09. > :30:08.be focused on protecting. Thank you both.
:30:09. > :30:10.And let's hear more from tonight's commentators, Deirdre Heenan
:30:11. > :30:18.Any great surprise that the Ulster Unionists and the DUP aren't
:30:19. > :30:20.interested in taking part in the Taoiseach's
:30:21. > :30:33.I think no great surprise that the DUP added and tested but it is a
:30:34. > :30:36.surprise that the Ulster Unionist Party not interested because it was
:30:37. > :30:40.an opportunity to show relevance and be on the negotiating chamber and
:30:41. > :30:44.try to influence policy, so it is all well and good to go down and
:30:45. > :30:47.shake hands and attend events, but when you have the opportunity to
:30:48. > :30:52.influence positively they have decided not to be there and it seems
:30:53. > :30:56.strange to me. It is not a surprise that the DUP have already written
:30:57. > :31:00.this off as a talking shop. They don't know that and the reality is
:31:01. > :31:05.they should be taking every opportunity to ensure the best
:31:06. > :31:09.outcome for Northern Ireland. I know the DUP obviously has an objection
:31:10. > :31:13.to Northern Ireland bodies and an embarrassment about that and it is
:31:14. > :31:19.embarrassment that Brexit itself. The DUP over the summer spoke about
:31:20. > :31:22.representing Northern Ireland in Europe so that is blue sky thinking
:31:23. > :31:25.in the long term but when it comes to talking about Brexit this
:31:26. > :31:32.November they have nothing yet to see. Otherwise it would be quite a
:31:33. > :31:38.different issue. And do they really think in terms of two these may
:31:39. > :31:43.negotiating that Northern Ireland will be a top priority. It will be
:31:44. > :31:46.about the financial sector and London and the south-east. Northern
:31:47. > :31:52.Ireland will not get a look and so we have to ensure we get the best
:31:53. > :31:56.deal. The DUP will have those conversations with UK ministers as
:31:57. > :31:59.and when appropriate. So why not take the opportunity to be in a
:32:00. > :32:05.forum with business leaders and academics. The DUP has been a little
:32:06. > :32:07.seduced by the idea of its influence in a finely balanced Westminster.
:32:08. > :32:09.Another story in the news today, involving the Queen of Ulster,
:32:10. > :32:25.It looks like an unseemly squabble which you could say gives an insight
:32:26. > :32:29.into the arguments. They can come to the pact over welfare reform but
:32:30. > :32:35.this kind of Butterfield is only a comfortable one. They cannot resist
:32:36. > :32:40.this. They can change the name plate backwards and forwards at the next
:32:41. > :32:44.five years if that is what you want. It seems so petty, such a petty
:32:45. > :32:50.thing to do, how could that be top of your agenda with so many other
:32:51. > :32:55.things happening. It defies belief. It is a cultural fight. It is maybe
:32:56. > :33:00.a bit more than a distraction but not much more. Let's broaden our
:33:01. > :33:09.scope and talk about the US presidential debate. You didn't stay
:33:10. > :33:13.up but he did. Was it worth it? It was fascinating. The pomp and
:33:14. > :33:18.ceremony, the backroom staff, but in the end, the people who are going to
:33:19. > :33:22.vote for Donald Trump will still vote for him. Many people believe he
:33:23. > :33:28.is the boss on the television, why could he not run the country?
:33:29. > :33:36.Hillary Clinton was OK, she allowed him to be hoist by his own petard.
:33:37. > :33:42.Stormont politics isn't as bad as we think, that is what he should take
:33:43. > :33:47.limit. He probably didn't do himself any harm. I know you saw bits of it
:33:48. > :33:52.afterwards but that Clinton do herself credit? Not really, both
:33:53. > :33:54.clamp the were disappointing. Two to go so that is something and we will
:33:55. > :33:56.leave it there. That's it from The View
:33:57. > :33:58.for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35
:33:59. > :34:00.here on BBC1. The pictures are the same,
:34:01. > :34:04.the words, I promise you, are exactly the same -
:34:05. > :34:19.it's just the voice that comedian Do you want to know the truth? I was
:34:20. > :34:25.going to say something extremely rough to Hillary and I said to
:34:26. > :34:30.myself, I can't do it, I just cant do it. It inappropriate, it's not
:34:31. > :34:36.nice, but I don't have a relationship with him, I don't need
:34:37. > :34:39.him, I didn't spend time with him, I have dinner with them, I didn't go
:34:40. > :34:44.hiking with them. I don't know him except they see his picture and I
:34:45. > :34:49.know what looks like. The other day, behind the blue
:34:50. > :34:53.screen, I don't know who you are talking to Secretary Clinton, but
:34:54. > :34:56.you were totally out of control! I said the and as a person with a
:34:57. > :34:58.temperament that has got a problem. OK.