13/10/2016

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:20. > :00:21.Victims of domestic abuse here say Stormont is letting them down

:00:22. > :00:24.by failing to introduce tougher legislation which would give them

:00:25. > :00:29.On The View tonight, I'll be asking the Justice Minister to explain

:00:30. > :00:55.the delay in tackling what she says is her number one priority.

:00:56. > :00:58.A senior judge calls for laws outlawing psychological abuse to be

:00:59. > :01:10.extended to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.

:01:11. > :01:14.If the right line is an actors, then we can more effectively combat

:01:15. > :01:15.domestic abuse. Meanwhile, victims of abuse say

:01:16. > :01:18.existing laws are not being implemented quickly enough.

:01:19. > :01:20.So what's causing the delay? I'll be asking the Justice Minister,

:01:21. > :01:22.Claire Sugden, how she plans Also, tonight - could

:01:23. > :01:26.Northern Ireland have a special status in the EU post-Brexit

:01:27. > :01:28.if the Republic pays The Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes says

:01:29. > :01:32.yes, but the DUP MP Gavin Robinson And remember that bad tempered US

:01:33. > :01:38.Presdential debate on Sunday? # No, I've never felt

:01:39. > :01:54.like this before And having the time of their lives

:01:55. > :01:57.in Commentators' Corner - Professor Deirdre Heenan and Newton

:01:58. > :02:03.Emerson. Stormont has been accused of failing

:02:04. > :02:06.the victims of domestic abuse over a new law which is in place in other

:02:07. > :02:11.parts of the UK, but not here. One mother who suffered years

:02:12. > :02:14.of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of her violent partner

:02:15. > :02:17.says the law could save lives and needs to be brought

:02:18. > :02:20.in without delay. A top judge here has also told

:02:21. > :02:23.The View the legislation would have a big impact

:02:24. > :02:26.on combating domestic abuse. Our political correspondent,

:02:27. > :02:41.Enda McClafferty, has more. He was the charmer, he had the world

:02:42. > :02:44.thinking he was lovely and once the door was closed... You see that

:02:45. > :02:57.anger and you know it's coming and you're waiting and you're waiting.

:02:58. > :03:03.He then proceeded to... He bit me and he stomped on me. Ceri Louise

:03:04. > :03:07.Graham knows all about the brutal reality of domestic abuse. Five

:03:08. > :03:12.years on from that savage attack, she is in a much better place today,

:03:13. > :03:16.safe in the knowledge her former partner is still behind bars. Though

:03:17. > :03:20.the physical winds have gone, the mental scars are still there. Even

:03:21. > :03:24.though people look at that photograph of me and they go, look

:03:25. > :03:27.at what happened to you, I think, that was the worst beating and it

:03:28. > :03:31.was the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life. Every thing

:03:32. > :03:35.else around it was much worse, not knowing when those beatings would

:03:36. > :03:40.come, not knowing when he was going to sexually assault me in the

:03:41. > :03:44.street. The most degrading, horrible things, you were just waiting

:03:45. > :03:48.because you didn't know. I didn't know which day was going to be

:03:49. > :03:54.witch. That fear and that control, that's worse. If the file --

:03:55. > :03:59.psychological side of being in an abusive relationship, it much worse

:04:00. > :04:03.than the physical. Incident of domestic abuse in Northern Ireland

:04:04. > :04:08.have reached a new high. In the last 12 months, more than 20,000 cases

:04:09. > :04:12.were reported to police. That is an average of 78 every day. That means

:04:13. > :04:18.police your respond to domestic abuse incident every 18 minutes. The

:04:19. > :04:24.majority of cases don't end up in court. That's because no law has

:04:25. > :04:27.been broken. That could be about to change as Stormont is coming under

:04:28. > :04:31.pressure to bring in legislation to deal with psychological abuse in the

:04:32. > :04:35.home. Legislation already in place another part of the UK and,

:04:36. > :04:41.according to be judged in this court, could have a big here. I can

:04:42. > :04:52.see how perpetrators seem to realise how they can dominate and chorus and

:04:53. > :04:57.subjugate the will of the partner without necessarily breaking an

:04:58. > :05:05.existing law. But at the same time, ruin the life of that person. I feel

:05:06. > :05:12.that if the right law is enacted, we can more effectively combat domestic

:05:13. > :05:17.abuse. Judges rarely gives interviews that he feels strongly

:05:18. > :05:21.about domestic abuse victims who don't get justice. There are all

:05:22. > :05:33.sorts of pressure on victims. It does get frustrating when the

:05:34. > :05:37.matter... Particularly if the defendant smirks. Add the eggs exit

:05:38. > :05:43.the courtroom. You feel that that person hasn't learnt anything,

:05:44. > :05:47.nothing is going to change. I have naming units here and we have a

:05:48. > :05:53.further three units there and 15 units, all that kept for families,

:05:54. > :05:57.everything in them for families. This is where many of the victims

:05:58. > :06:04.who need to escape an abusive partner end up. The women's aid

:06:05. > :06:08.shelter in Derry. Psychological abuse is a big problem, staff

:06:09. > :06:12.matters dealing with them, long after they leave the relationship.

:06:13. > :06:17.We have no a to address that here and it's important and I'm delighted

:06:18. > :06:22.the UK have recognised the harm that it causes and I just wish that

:06:23. > :06:26.Stormont would implement the law here. There are questions over

:06:27. > :06:29.Stormont's recent record when it comes to legislating on domestic

:06:30. > :06:34.abuse, that is because the police here have been waiting for more than

:06:35. > :06:37.a year to use special powers to protect victims who faced an

:06:38. > :06:41.immediate risk. This is what the then Justice Minister had to say

:06:42. > :06:46.about the special powers when they were approved in the assembly last

:06:47. > :06:50.year. I made provision in the just an act of 2015 for domestic brands

:06:51. > :06:53.protection notices and orders which protect victims of domestic violence

:06:54. > :06:58.who may be at risk of immediate harm in danger. The Department of Justice

:06:59. > :07:02.have told us they are still working on the phased implementation of the

:07:03. > :07:11.new powers. Legislation is slow, we know that. In particular, it is life

:07:12. > :07:18.threatening for victims of domestic and sexual abuse. It will cause more

:07:19. > :07:24.harm and for victims, it is not in anybody's interest, we need to step

:07:25. > :07:28.up. Ceri Louise Graham just find it there speak that her abuser was

:07:29. > :07:33.turned down for parole and will now be -- Ward may be released until

:07:34. > :07:35.2020. She is hoping by then there will be greater legal protection for

:07:36. > :07:40.domestic abuse victims and she had this message for the justice

:07:41. > :07:46.minister, who has made tackling domestic abuse her number one

:07:47. > :07:53.priority. Please bring it now. Not next week, not next year, as soon as

:07:54. > :07:56.you can. It's going to save lives because mental health... This

:07:57. > :08:00.affects your mental health so bad, I left with the condition that I

:08:01. > :08:05.suffer with every single day because of the experiences that I had at the

:08:06. > :08:07.hands of that man. The longer it's left, the more these people's lives

:08:08. > :08:09.are in danger. Act on it now. Well the Justice Minister,

:08:10. > :08:19.Claire Sugden, is with me now. Thank you for joining us on the

:08:20. > :08:23.programme tonight. That report ended their with an impassioned plea for

:08:24. > :08:29.you to introduce a law to deal with psychological abuse. Is that going

:08:30. > :08:34.to happen? Yes. I'm committed to changing the law in this area. That

:08:35. > :08:37.we see in other parts of the United Kingdom and it's an area we need to

:08:38. > :08:42.look at in Northern Ireland. When we talk about domestic abuse, it is not

:08:43. > :08:48.an isolated incident of violence, its actually, in some cases, it

:08:49. > :08:52.could be days, weeks, months, even years of trauma impacted on them by

:08:53. > :08:55.their partners. The legislation in other parts of the UK is something

:08:56. > :09:02.that is appropriate here and something and committed to bringing

:09:03. > :09:06.in. But when? As soon as possible. It's my number one priority. I hope

:09:07. > :09:10.to bring it to the assembly very soon. Any kind of Tyne skill? It's

:09:11. > :09:16.something we're working on an insurer we have to get right. The

:09:17. > :09:19.consultation process is very much part of this and were finishing that

:09:20. > :09:24.the next couple of weeks. We worried he began the process in terms of

:09:25. > :09:27.legislating this. I will have to go into areas that the Justice

:09:28. > :09:36.committee but I am committed to bringing this for word. Coercing

:09:37. > :09:40.control will be out loud in Ireland in the next year. Something else we

:09:41. > :09:44.don't have that England and Wales have is domestic violence protection

:09:45. > :09:48.orders and notices, also mentioned in the report. They were legislated

:09:49. > :09:52.for here in Northern Ireland last June. 16 months on, the PSN IRA

:09:53. > :10:02.still waiting for the authority from your department to start using them.

:10:03. > :10:05.Why? -- PS NI. It is something I really committed to implementing,

:10:06. > :10:10.it's something we are going to drive forward. As I said, domestic

:10:11. > :10:15.violence, 28,000 incidents of domestic violence a year. Why have

:10:16. > :10:19.we not had a focus before now? It is not just about tackling domestic

:10:20. > :10:23.violence in itself, it is about the wider impacts of domestic rounds on

:10:24. > :10:27.society. I am finding within children and young people coming

:10:28. > :10:30.into the criminal justice system, it is because of the trauma that has

:10:31. > :10:36.happened in some point in their lives and that is often domestic

:10:37. > :10:38.violence and abuse. 35,000 children in Northern Ireland this year,

:10:39. > :10:42.potentially, will find themselves in the criminal justice system because

:10:43. > :10:46.we did not try to address domestic violence in Northern Ireland. I am

:10:47. > :10:49.really keen to address this. For the women that we see everyday that are

:10:50. > :10:54.being hurt by this, this will save lives and I'm committed to doing

:10:55. > :10:57.that. I understand the number one priority and your impassioned about

:10:58. > :11:03.making a change, but your department, what about the phased

:11:04. > :11:08.limitations of domestic violence orders and notices, what is the

:11:09. > :11:15.reason for the delay? They could have been in place 16 months ago. It

:11:16. > :11:20.is the case of the practical elements in implementing it. A lot

:11:21. > :11:23.of work need to be done along the Northern Ireland Court service. To

:11:24. > :11:27.get this legislation in place. It's not as simple as the legislation is

:11:28. > :11:32.enacted and the next day we can instruct the police to do this. But

:11:33. > :11:37.that is the case in England and Wales. Again, it's something I'm

:11:38. > :11:42.committed to and we will work towards it as soon as we can because

:11:43. > :11:44.these are mechanisms that will better help support victims and

:11:45. > :11:53.we've seen that in terms of the arrangement... It is the number of

:11:54. > :11:56.things that we need to do. In terms of legislation, I am committed to

:11:57. > :12:02.bringing forward a domestic violence a fence around the course of control

:12:03. > :12:06.element. Same-day cases of domestic bans being reported here every day,

:12:07. > :12:10.that is well over 500 cases the week. Victims are losing out because

:12:11. > :12:14.this legislation isn't currently being used. What do you say to women

:12:15. > :12:20.watch and listen to be tonight who feel very badly let down and at real

:12:21. > :12:23.risk by your department's failure to have implemented this particular

:12:24. > :12:28.legislation? I don't disagree with the fact that we haven't focused on

:12:29. > :12:32.it. Northern Ireland should be ashamed we haven't provided a focus

:12:33. > :12:36.on this. If you chat to any police constable, they will tell you about

:12:37. > :12:41.the many incidents we have attended throughout their career, Morgan

:12:42. > :12:46.would have expected. It is something I do think, in terms of helping

:12:47. > :12:51.these women, we need to look at seriously. Domestic abuse doesn't

:12:52. > :12:57.discriminate. It happens within all sections in society, young, old, it

:12:58. > :13:02.doesn't discriminate in terms of race, it doesn't discriminate in

:13:03. > :13:06.terms of age. Why have we not addressed before now? That is what

:13:07. > :13:11.I'm keen to do. Of what you need to do is start banging heads together.

:13:12. > :13:15.I am banging those heads together. When I became Justice minister over

:13:16. > :13:19.five months ago, my first priority was tackling domestic violence and

:13:20. > :13:24.we are starting as conversations on those conversations began quite soon

:13:25. > :13:28.during my time in office. It is culminating into real solutions to

:13:29. > :13:40.those problems. I want to move on and talk about fatal fatal

:13:41. > :13:45.abnormality. What do you make the recommendations? The report was

:13:46. > :13:49.commissioned by both myself and the Department of Health. We will want

:13:50. > :13:54.to take time to look at that in terms of any movement on this issue,

:13:55. > :13:56.it will be an executive approach and myself and the health Minister will

:13:57. > :14:01.want to look at the recommendations in terms of the report and see how

:14:02. > :14:05.we can take this forward. When did you receive those recommendations?

:14:06. > :14:13.Yesterday, with a health minister. We will take time consider that. In

:14:14. > :14:18.terms of moving this forward in any way, it it will be with Phil

:14:19. > :14:21.executive approval. The health minister said in the Stormont

:14:22. > :14:26.chamber this week if the advisory group recommends a change to

:14:27. > :14:30.legislation, she will act on that. Will you? I will look at these

:14:31. > :14:34.recommendations and see what they are saying in terms of what is best

:14:35. > :14:39.that the people of Northern Ireland. When you were a backbencher, you did

:14:40. > :14:44.say he would support such change. My personal opinion does not matter.

:14:45. > :14:50.That's why this group was implement it. I will take those

:14:51. > :14:55.recommendations and we will see how we can move forward. Forgive me for

:14:56. > :15:00.being negative in a sense are pushing you further in this, you say

:15:01. > :15:03.you want to move forward, there has to be Phil executive agreement. Does

:15:04. > :15:09.that mean that the GU people have a view on any change because it

:15:10. > :15:15.doesn't want there to be a change to the current state? -- DUP. There is

:15:16. > :15:17.a different feeling within the executive space. What has gone

:15:18. > :15:22.before it doesn't mean we know what's going to go ahead. Have you

:15:23. > :15:28.seen any evidence that the GU people smack position has changed? We are

:15:29. > :15:32.mindful of delivery in terms of this mandate. The relationship between

:15:33. > :15:36.the executive partners has been positive. The approach will be that

:15:37. > :15:41.we can see where we can take theirs. It will have to be with executive

:15:42. > :15:47.approval. I would go outside of that. We have to be collected on

:15:48. > :15:51.this issue. What is the timescale on that? We will take time to consider

:15:52. > :15:56.and consult with their executive colleagues. On the subject of

:15:57. > :15:59.legacy, the Deputy First Minister Mehdi Secretary of State today to

:16:00. > :16:04.discuss legacy issues, it is clear that the DUP Sinn Fein remained

:16:05. > :16:09.publicly divided on the issue. How close do you think we are to

:16:10. > :16:13.resolution on these outstanding issues? I don't think there is an

:16:14. > :16:17.opportunity to progress and legacy issues. I'm not sure around the

:16:18. > :16:24.divide in terms of the executive parties. It is clear both parties

:16:25. > :16:29.are clear to see movement on issue. I certainly think there is

:16:30. > :16:36.opportunity for my own perspective, we need to address this as soon as

:16:37. > :16:42.possible. This issue is timely. That is in respect of victims. We don't

:16:43. > :16:45.have time. I am keen we do this as soon as possible and I get a sense

:16:46. > :16:50.that where we are in terms of this, it is the case of people finding

:16:51. > :16:53.their feet. A new mandate, a new Secretary of State, people mad to

:16:54. > :16:59.get their head around it so we can progress in the right way. You think

:17:00. > :17:02.the two sides could be closer than the public believes? The

:17:03. > :17:09.relationship between all the executive parties has been very

:17:10. > :17:12.positive and there is each case to want to progress on this and many

:17:13. > :17:16.other issues. Healy referred to a new mood around the executive table.

:17:17. > :17:20.You famously talked in the assembly of the Stormont house of cards in

:17:21. > :17:23.your head hurt the joke is at the top. Una sitting alongside those

:17:24. > :17:29.jokers as you called them around the executive table. Did you sell out on

:17:30. > :17:35.your principles when the DUP Sinn Fein came knocking on your door? Not

:17:36. > :17:43.at all. The are no longer at the executive. I stand by my comments.

:17:44. > :17:49.You were talking about the DUP Sinn Fein, not yourself. Any new

:17:50. > :17:53.executive mandate, the mood is very positive. Anyone sat near the

:17:54. > :17:54.executive before it had realised the ocean around it. It is very

:17:55. > :18:06.different. Will you stick it out as Justice

:18:07. > :18:13.Minister to the end of the mandate in May 2021? Of course I will. This

:18:14. > :18:18.is not about me. It never was about me. It is about what I can do. Since

:18:19. > :18:26.taking this job, a lot of people have spoken of challenges, I know

:18:27. > :18:30.there are a lot of opportunities with myself as Justice Minister and

:18:31. > :18:32.the new executive. We will see if that happens.

:18:33. > :18:35.It has become a well-worn mantra since the EU referendum -

:18:36. > :18:37.no return to the borders of the past.

:18:38. > :18:40.As yet it remains unclear how that might be achieved,

:18:41. > :18:43.but now a Dublin MEP has called for Northern Ireland to be granted

:18:44. > :18:45.special status as an associate member of the EU

:18:46. > :18:47.with the Republic paying the membership dues.

:18:48. > :18:49.So how might that go down with unionists here?

:18:50. > :18:51.Earlier, I spoke to the Fine Gael MEP, Brian Hayes,

:18:52. > :18:53.and the DUP MP, Gavin Robinson,

:18:54. > :18:54.and I started by asking Mr Hayes

:18:55. > :19:06.Well, I think there should be a flexible arrangement provided. It

:19:07. > :19:10.would require the support of the British government and the parties

:19:11. > :19:14.in Northern Ireland. There are many circumstances across the European

:19:15. > :19:20.Union were different countries have different relationships with the

:19:21. > :19:24.European Union. The case of the Isle of Man, for instance, Gibraltar,

:19:25. > :19:29.Greenland and Denmark. Different kinds of arrangements are put in

:19:30. > :19:35.place. I think there are very strong arguments, in terms of developing

:19:36. > :19:38.the Northern Ireland economy, developing the all Ireland economy

:19:39. > :19:42.we can put to Europe. But what is important here is we need to bring

:19:43. > :19:53.some certainty to the economic situation. The Prime Minister has

:19:54. > :19:55.said she intends to invoke Article 50 by April next year. There are no

:19:56. > :20:00.guarantees in terms of article 50. That will be done and dusted within

:20:01. > :20:04.a two-year period. What any of us who have an interest in growing the

:20:05. > :20:08.all Ireland economy and the Northern Ireland economy especially will want

:20:09. > :20:15.is some certainty from all of this. It seems to me that if there was a

:20:16. > :20:18.willingness to look at this question, and I think Brussels would

:20:19. > :20:22.be prepared to look at it in a flexible way. No one is talking

:20:23. > :20:26.about changing the constitutional arrangement of Northern Ireland. It

:20:27. > :20:31.is part of the United Kingdom until such time as the majority of people

:20:32. > :20:38.want to change that. That is the view of Northern Ireland and the

:20:39. > :20:43.Republic of Ireland. This is an economic agreement about growing the

:20:44. > :20:47.region as all. With that assurance that this is not about the

:20:48. > :20:54.constitutional position of Northern Ireland, can you see merit in what

:20:55. > :21:01.he is suggesting? I think it is good that when a proposal like this comes

:21:02. > :21:04.up we can discuss it. But the decision was taken in the United

:21:05. > :21:10.Kingdom was going to leave the European union. That is what will

:21:11. > :21:16.happen. On that basis, we can discuss what trading relationships

:21:17. > :21:22.we have with the European Union. Your party colleague Jeffrey

:21:23. > :21:27.Donaldson is on the record as saying there is a case to be made for

:21:28. > :21:33.special status as the island of Ireland. When we leave the European

:21:34. > :21:39.Union, we need to ensure we have the best terms of engagement with it.

:21:40. > :21:45.That Northern Ireland will not suffer but will benefit. The notion

:21:46. > :21:52.that they should get special status by proxy is not something we are

:21:53. > :21:55.interested in, nor is paying a membership fee. We don't know what

:21:56. > :22:00.the government's opening gambit will be. We still have to wait six months

:22:01. > :22:06.for that. We're leaving the European Union and we want the best terms of

:22:07. > :22:08.engagement. But we will not do anything which will cause an

:22:09. > :22:11.economic impact which would be negative to Northern Ireland. Having

:22:12. > :22:16.a trading relationship which meant we were not trading with the rest of

:22:17. > :22:30.the United Kingdom as equal players would be much greater damaging than

:22:31. > :22:34.anything which is being proposed. I was encouraged by what Gavin said

:22:35. > :22:39.and what Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Irish Times. We need to be

:22:40. > :22:44.flexible about this. The constitutional issues are over. This

:22:45. > :22:48.is about trying to maximise the opportunity for all of these islands

:22:49. > :22:52.in a circumstance where there is such uncertainty. If Britain manages

:22:53. > :22:57.to negotiate a package with the EU which allows it to stay in a customs

:22:58. > :23:04.union, that is fine. But what happens if it doesn't? Any

:23:05. > :23:07.circumstance where the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are not

:23:08. > :23:11.in a customs union effectively means tariffs across the border from north

:23:12. > :23:16.to south. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen. Northern

:23:17. > :23:21.Ireland has gone through a very difficult period over the last 40

:23:22. > :23:27.years. The European Union has always been to the fore, going back to the

:23:28. > :23:30.1980s and before, in helping to fund Northern Ireland because of those

:23:31. > :23:38.special circumstances. I think we need to be imaginative about this.

:23:39. > :23:44.Our constituents have a collective interest, trying to maximise the

:23:45. > :23:48.benefits from Ireland as a whole. What we're talking about here is

:23:49. > :23:52.collective Ness, a bespoke arrangement to benefit everyone on

:23:53. > :23:59.the island of Ireland, north and South. Perhaps leave and remain. We

:24:00. > :24:05.are in a new Europe of mutual interdependence. Do you accept that?

:24:06. > :24:11.We have mutual relationships. What we are not going to do is enter a

:24:12. > :24:14.trading scenario which means the exports of 8.3 billion between

:24:15. > :24:19.Northern Ireland and the rest of United Kingdom is put in detriment

:24:20. > :24:26.just to gain the 1.4 we have with the Republic of Ireland. The more

:24:27. > :24:30.interesting proposal for Brian and those in Republic of Ireland who see

:24:31. > :24:34.a benefit of a relationship with us would be similarly leaving the

:24:35. > :24:40.European Union. Ireland has now gone from a net beneficiary of the

:24:41. > :24:45.European Union and will become a net contributor. I think it is something

:24:46. > :24:49.they should seriously consider. They were going to benefit from the

:24:50. > :24:59.transatlantic trade partnership but that is not going to go ahead. I

:25:00. > :25:04.think there is great benefit. Having told to be at the back of the queue,

:25:05. > :25:09.we are now at the front of the queue with the United States. Just as they

:25:10. > :25:14.joined with us, I think they should leave the those. It is something you

:25:15. > :25:18.have raised as well. There needs to be a conversation about weather or

:25:19. > :25:26.not Ireland can in fact remain in the EU, if the UK leaves. What I

:25:27. > :25:32.have always said is we cannot be afraid of that question. I'm

:25:33. > :25:38.confident that the great majority of politicians can answer that

:25:39. > :25:41.question. I think it would be an economically illiterate strategy. In

:25:42. > :25:45.a circumstance where the UK is leaving the European Union for us to

:25:46. > :25:56.leave, in a circumstance where a fifth of all private sector jobs is

:25:57. > :26:05.dependent on FDI investment. We have a passport arrangement into the 26

:26:06. > :26:12.member states of the EU. I am interested in what has happened in

:26:13. > :26:17.financial industries in my constituency. It was interesting to

:26:18. > :26:24.see in Belfast over the last few years there was an emergence up I

:26:25. > :26:28.financial sectors which was doing good work and was more competitive

:26:29. > :26:31.than the City of London. That will be lost to Belfast and Northern

:26:32. > :26:36.Ireland in a circumstance where they do not have access to the financial

:26:37. > :26:41.passport. It has been clear now. If we are to see the kind of private

:26:42. > :26:43.sector economy we need to see in Northern Ireland moving away from

:26:44. > :26:51.the kind of situation at the moment were such a large number of people

:26:52. > :26:54.are employed in the public sector, it has to be built on credible

:26:55. > :26:56.economic terms, not on the terms of the old-fashioned arguments we have

:26:57. > :27:00.had in the past. I think together, North and South, East and west, we

:27:01. > :27:06.can come up with an arrangement were Northern Ireland gets the best of

:27:07. > :27:14.both worlds, if it is prepared to do that in our mutual, beneficial way.

:27:15. > :27:20.Brian haze says let's discuss this, but he says it would be a maniac

:27:21. > :27:25.strategy based on economic illiteracy. I think it is worth

:27:26. > :27:32.considering and there are more individuals that would be involved

:27:33. > :27:37.in that situation and Brian alone. The growth in Ireland has been

:27:38. > :27:41.constrained by the European Union. They used to benefit, but they were

:27:42. > :27:46.clobbered over their arrangements with Apple. Know it will cost them

:27:47. > :27:50.more with no fiscal or financial control, with no certainty of what a

:27:51. > :27:53.squint up in the future, given the example of Spain and Portugal last

:27:54. > :27:59.week who got the rug pulled from under them by the European

:28:00. > :28:07.Commission and had 5 billion per year removed. They have lost

:28:08. > :28:13.negotiating partner in the United Kingdom. The Irish Republic are

:28:14. > :28:17.minnows within the EU. The required the Big Brother to put their arm

:28:18. > :28:26.around them. That will not be there. If you want to attain economic

:28:27. > :28:31.certainty and have the ability to develop their relationship with

:28:32. > :28:41.trading partners around the world, then a relationship with United

:28:42. > :28:46.Kingdom would be more beneficial. We had the highest rate of growth

:28:47. > :28:51.within the eurozone. We have been open for business and have had

:28:52. > :28:58.attractive and aggressive FDI strategy in getting investment into

:28:59. > :29:03.Ireland. We have access to the EU market. We have a financial

:29:04. > :29:07.transporting system, we speak English language and have common-law

:29:08. > :29:11.jurisdiction. There are clear tax advantages. What I am saying is

:29:12. > :29:17.Northern Ireland needs to move in that direction, it needs to become a

:29:18. > :29:23.private sector economy. Together, East, West, North, South, we can

:29:24. > :29:26.make the kind of leap forward. There are huge advantages in Northern

:29:27. > :29:40.Ireland, as there were in the Republic of Ireland

:29:41. > :29:45.15 years ago. There is no reason why Northern Ireland cannot have the

:29:46. > :29:48.economics are success of the Republic.

:29:49. > :29:50.Brian Hayes and Gavin Robinson agreeing, frankly, to disagree.

:29:51. > :29:53.And let's find out what common ground there is between tonight's

:29:54. > :29:55.commentators on the issues we've been discussing.

:29:56. > :29:56.Deirdre Heenan and Newton Emerson are with me.

:29:57. > :30:04.It probably sounds as crazy as Gavin Robinson's suggestion of Ireland

:30:05. > :30:10.leaving Europe. There are three parts of the British Isles which are

:30:11. > :30:18.in the customs union, but not the EU. The Isle of Man and the Channel

:30:19. > :30:23.Islands. Crown dependencies are in the British Irish Council, which is

:30:24. > :30:36.not being mentioned in Dublin but is coming to more notice in Scotland.

:30:37. > :30:39.People are talking about it. He doesn't want to talk about the

:30:40. > :30:49.Channel Islands because it sounds quite crazy. Body are a very valid

:30:50. > :30:53.model. I think the town on the nature of the discussion in Northern

:30:54. > :30:57.Ireland is very different from the discussion in England. There's been

:30:58. > :31:02.a large acceptance. Brexit is going to happen and focus is getting the

:31:03. > :31:06.best deal. For Northern Ireland, it is time for political parties to

:31:07. > :31:11.come together and see what will be the best deal and how can we get

:31:12. > :31:19.that? Instead of these maniac policies that are being discussed.

:31:20. > :31:25.Some good lines from Brian haze. Is the idea of Ireland leaving the EU,

:31:26. > :31:28.if the UK leaves, is a maniac strategy based on economic

:31:29. > :31:38.illiteracy, quite colourful language? They don't want this idea

:31:39. > :31:43.of the Republic leaving the EU to get out of the bottle. There could

:31:44. > :31:51.be more air hoc arrangements for the UK and Ireland together. The states

:31:52. > :31:57.agreed amongst themselves what they want to do and they do it, then

:31:58. > :32:01.Europe has to change its principles. Sinn Fein are riding three horses,

:32:02. > :32:07.part of a legal case saying there against that, having staging post at

:32:08. > :32:10.the border re-enacting border posts, and at the same time there in

:32:11. > :32:17.partnership with our party that are clearly wanting to Brexit. It will

:32:18. > :32:22.be difficult to get all five or six constituent parts of the UK to

:32:23. > :32:29.agree, but it will be impossible to get all 27 member states to agree.

:32:30. > :32:34.We will agree before they do. We need to agree the best deal for us.

:32:35. > :32:41.That was the first television interview with Claire Sugden since

:32:42. > :32:46.he took over five years ago. How did she do? Very diplomatic and said

:32:47. > :32:51.absolutely nothing. A top performance and I'm sure the DUP and

:32:52. > :32:57.Sinn Fein will be very pleased. She's very limited in what she can

:32:58. > :33:04.do. It is not very fair to have a go at. This course of law is going to

:33:05. > :33:08.happen, she says, within the next 12 months? She is saying that domestic

:33:09. > :33:12.violence is her number one priority. Given the issues that would be in

:33:13. > :33:22.her entry, that is an interesting statement. It is an issue, but it is

:33:23. > :33:25.abroad issue, educational and awareness raising. She's saying she

:33:26. > :33:30.will make the changes, the problem is that the pace of change in

:33:31. > :33:36.Northern Ireland is painfully slow. A matter of urgency translates into

:33:37. > :33:41.two years, following 18 months of consultation. There was a degree of

:33:42. > :33:45.frustration came out. She did admit that she wants to bang heads

:33:46. > :33:50.together. She was too diplomatic to see that for most of her time in

:33:51. > :33:58.office so far, Stormont has been shut over the summer. When we say we

:33:59. > :34:02.expect to see action, we mean within months not years.

:34:03. > :34:05.That's it from The View for this week.

:34:06. > :34:08.Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One.

:34:09. > :34:10.Before we go, it is the gift that keeps on giving.

:34:11. > :34:13.The US Presidential election race has inspired many online parodies

:34:14. > :34:18.The second TV debate through the eyes of a Patrick Swayze fan.

:34:19. > :34:55.# Now I've finally found someone to stand by me

:34:56. > :35:13.# There's no way we could disguise it secretly

:35:14. > :35:18.# Cos we seem to understand the urgency