:00:00. > :00:00.The end of a remarkable career that saw a republican from the Bogside
:00:00. > :00:00.embracing the political process, ultimately leading to
:00:00. > :00:09.Tonight on The View, we look at the political legacy
:00:10. > :00:33.From the rubble strewn streets of 1970s Derry to the gilded
:00:34. > :00:36.rooms of Windsor Castle, Martin McGuinness has been a major
:00:37. > :00:40.figure on the political scene for more than 40 years.
:00:41. > :00:48.Now, due to ill-health, he's standing aside.
:00:49. > :00:56.The question I ask myself is, are you capable, are you physically
:00:57. > :01:00.capable of fighting this election with the intensity collections need
:01:01. > :01:01.to be Fort? The answer is I am not physically capable.
:01:02. > :01:03.With me in the studio, the DUP MP, Ian Paisley,
:01:04. > :01:05.whose father had a remarkable relationship with Mr McGuinness,
:01:06. > :01:07.Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein, and our Political Editor,
:01:08. > :01:11.And from our Foyle studio, Denis Bradley, who knows
:01:12. > :01:19.Sinn Fein does a U-turn on a public inquiry into RHI.
:01:20. > :01:22.What impact will that have on the crisis that saw another
:01:23. > :01:26.I'll be asking the opposition parties what they want
:01:27. > :01:30.And after another week of twists and turns,
:01:31. > :01:32.in Commentators' Corner we've Professor Deirdre Heenan
:01:33. > :01:42.After weeks of speculation over his future, the announcement
:01:43. > :01:46.finally came in an interview in his home town.
:01:47. > :01:49.One of the most prominent political figures of the last 40 years
:01:50. > :01:52.confirmed he will never again be an elected representative.
:01:53. > :01:54.Our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, spoke
:01:55. > :02:12.In the aftermath of the assembly election last year, I agreed to stay
:02:13. > :02:17.on. I said I would do it for a further year, that would bring me to
:02:18. > :02:25.the 8th of May. It would have been the tenth anniversary. That was a
:02:26. > :02:33.very historic moment. There was the crisis of Stormont and a big
:02:34. > :02:37.decision had to be made as to whether or not I would contest that
:02:38. > :02:40.election. A lot of decisions had to be taken into consideration so I've
:02:41. > :02:46.given a lot of careful thought to death over the course of the last
:02:47. > :02:49.couple of weeks. The question I ask myself, are you physically capable
:02:50. > :02:53.of fighting this election with the intensity that lecterns need to be
:02:54. > :03:00.fought? The answer is that I am not physically capable. Are you
:03:01. > :03:05.disappointed that your decision to retire from politics have come at a
:03:06. > :03:08.time when the Stormont institutions have effectively collapsed and how
:03:09. > :03:21.hard do you think you will be to restore them? These things cannot be
:03:22. > :03:28.seen in isolation. I think that is sheared by their sympathy to all
:03:29. > :03:37.things Irish. Please institutions could only work on the basis of
:03:38. > :03:42.equality. Specifically in relation to the scandal, I provided a way out
:03:43. > :03:49.for Arlene Foster and she refused to take it. I phoned her and I said,
:03:50. > :03:53.Mike Nesbitt is calling for a head. He is calling for your resignation.
:03:54. > :04:02.Without an enquiry of any description. What I am asking for is
:04:03. > :04:08.your cooperation to do what Peter done previously, stand aside for
:04:09. > :04:13.four or five weeks. She refused to do so. Your journey has been
:04:14. > :04:17.remarkable from the early days when you were pretty open about your role
:04:18. > :04:23.within the RIAA to later days when you were seen as a peacemaker. --
:04:24. > :04:28.IRA. Do you regret anything about your earlier endorsement of the use
:04:29. > :04:31.of violence to further your aim is? People have to consider the
:04:32. > :04:36.circumstances that existed at the time joining the IRA. In the city,
:04:37. > :04:44.people were being murdered by the RUC. Whether they were being
:04:45. > :04:47.murdered wholesale as they were on bloody Sunday. Many young people
:04:48. > :04:52.like myself supported by many thousands of people in the city, the
:04:53. > :05:01.majority, decided to fight back. I don't regret any of that. But I
:05:02. > :05:06.think that people can judge all of that. The don't understand what was
:05:07. > :05:09.happening in the city at the time. Is there anything the Martin
:05:10. > :05:13.McGuinness of today would tell the Martin McGuinness of the early 70s
:05:14. > :05:18.now with the benefit of hindsight in what you've seen? There's no point
:05:19. > :05:26.in me telling the Martin McGuinness the 70s anything about what he
:05:27. > :05:30.should or should not have done at that time. There were particular
:05:31. > :05:34.circumstances that existed in the city when the city was occupied,
:05:35. > :05:39.where people were being downtrodden as a result of the Unionists and
:05:40. > :05:48.Stormont supported by the British Army. I have to deal with all of
:05:49. > :05:52.that on a very philosophical way. I am proud of the tradition that I've
:05:53. > :05:57.come from but I'm equally as pride of the people who are about to
:05:58. > :06:03.emerge next week and you will know about this next week, the new
:06:04. > :06:08.leadership in the north. I think people will be inspired. Will you
:06:09. > :06:14.see a united Ireland in your lifetime? I am very determined to
:06:15. > :06:18.ensure we continue for the work of the reunification of Ireland.
:06:19. > :06:21.Obviously I will not be ever again an elected representative but I
:06:22. > :06:28.would hope that I would have a key role to play in terms of continuing
:06:29. > :06:34.to build support for the peace process, build support for unity,
:06:35. > :06:40.build support for reconciliation and in terms of reconciliation, I don't
:06:41. > :06:45.think I could be criticised by anyone for what I have done that.
:06:46. > :06:53.Although there have been some Republicans, mostly on the extremes,
:06:54. > :06:59.even someone mainstream, who thought that meeting the Queen, going to the
:07:00. > :07:03.Somme, going to Flanders Fields, the many other acts of reconciliation
:07:04. > :07:07.that I've been involved in was a bridge too far. The argument was
:07:08. > :07:12.always put that it was a bridge too far for them, not because they were
:07:13. > :07:17.opposed in principle but because there was no reciprocation coming
:07:18. > :07:25.from the DUP. I don't actually remember the last time I heard a
:07:26. > :07:29.member of the DUP the word reconciliation when you consider the
:07:30. > :07:36.fact that Arlene Foster has been in the post now for a year. I have
:07:37. > :07:42.memories of Peter's speech in New York when he talks about the need to
:07:43. > :07:44.work together. I haven't heard any of that from the present leadership
:07:45. > :07:45.of the DUP. Mark, you were there
:07:46. > :07:57.with Mr McGuinness in I've conducted in many interviews
:07:58. > :08:01.over the year with Martin McGuinness but I think this was the first time
:08:02. > :08:05.when off-camera didn't see him in there, but his wife was there, one
:08:06. > :08:09.of his brothers was there, one of his sons was there providing company
:08:10. > :08:14.and support for him. Whilst we were setting up the gear and even before
:08:15. > :08:18.anything had been said and he made his opening statement, you got a
:08:19. > :08:22.sense this was a seminal moment for not only Martin McGuinness but also
:08:23. > :08:26.his family. This wasn't going to be an ordinary interview. He didn't use
:08:27. > :08:30.the word retire, he still wants to play some role in public life
:08:31. > :08:37.afterwards, it was clear from what he said that this was really the end
:08:38. > :08:41.of an error and it was evident then in the emotion we've seen him that
:08:42. > :08:46.she would near his home in the Bogside at that little gathering
:08:47. > :08:50.this evening. -- era. The kind of emotion he was holding within
:08:51. > :08:52.himself I was conducting that interview. Thanks very much indeed.
:08:53. > :08:54.With me now are the DUP's Ian Paisley and Sinn
:08:55. > :08:58.You must have known this day was fast approaching,
:08:59. > :09:00.but was it still difficult to take in when it was confirmed
:09:01. > :09:12.Yes, obviously personally I am very sad. He's been a good friend and
:09:13. > :09:18.mentor of mine for almost 30 years. I have learnt a huge amount from
:09:19. > :09:22.him. It is the huge hole which has been recruited in the middle of our
:09:23. > :09:27.organisation. He will still be there for us. In terms of the role he has
:09:28. > :09:31.played over recent years in both leading the Sinn Fein operation in
:09:32. > :09:36.the north but also across Ireland, his contribution to the peace
:09:37. > :09:40.process, to reconciliation and the drive that he brought in to that,
:09:41. > :09:44.the patience and determination and the fact that you not only
:09:45. > :09:47.challenged himself that other Republicans and people right across
:09:48. > :09:54.society in what reconciliation looks like, his relationship with Ian's
:09:55. > :10:00.father. They were derided for the friendship that they had by people.
:10:01. > :10:03.People would like to see if he chuckles around Stormont at the
:10:04. > :10:06.moment. He has been a huge figure in the peace process here and his
:10:07. > :10:09.retirement is a very, very sad day not just for Sinn Fein but politics
:10:10. > :10:11.generally across Ireland. Your father, against all
:10:12. > :10:24.expectations, formed a close First of all, I'm going to wish
:10:25. > :10:28.Martin McGuinness well in his retirement. I hope that he has time
:10:29. > :10:34.to get over his health issues and to enjoy a time of retirement with his
:10:35. > :10:39.wife and family. Any politician knows the importance of that and the
:10:40. > :10:43.ability to be able to enjoy that. Thank you is the second thing going
:10:44. > :10:47.to say. It's important we reflect on the fact that we would not be where
:10:48. > :10:50.we are in Northern Ireland in terms of having stability, peace and the
:10:51. > :10:55.opportunity to rebuild our country it hadn't been for the work that he
:10:56. > :11:00.did Putin, especially with my father, the beginning of this long
:11:01. > :11:07.journey. I'm going to acknowledge the fact that perhaps if we got back
:11:08. > :11:10.to that foundation work of building a proper relationship and
:11:11. > :11:16.recognising what partnership actually means, we can get rid of
:11:17. > :11:19.the mess we are in. You have no difficulty as a Unionist here
:11:20. > :11:23.tonight seeing you warmly applaud his contribution, particularly in
:11:24. > :11:25.recent years. Do you think there are other Unionists who don't really
:11:26. > :11:33.appreciate that and don't really understand it? I do not believe it
:11:34. > :11:38.is necessary for Ian Paisley Iranian Unionist to qualify every comment
:11:39. > :11:41.with the fact that eight, I'm a Protestant, it's different to the
:11:42. > :11:45.Catholic decide me, I'm a Unionist and a Loyalist and I think something
:11:46. > :11:50.different to the Nationalist republican beside me. Can we please
:11:51. > :11:54.get over that? We as political leaders have to demonstrate by our
:11:55. > :12:00.actions and words and our top that we are over that. The sooner we do
:12:01. > :12:03.that then me saying thank you to I'm diametrically opposed to an ancient
:12:04. > :12:09.have to say that I'm opposed to, it's obvious. I can say thank you
:12:10. > :12:13.them honestly and humbly and recognise the remarkable journey
:12:14. > :12:16.that Martin McGuinness went on has not only save lives but has made the
:12:17. > :12:19.lives of countless people in Northern Ireland better because of
:12:20. > :12:24.the partnership Government that we worked on and up it together. That
:12:25. > :12:32.is important and it's important that I see it. It is interesting that you
:12:33. > :12:38.say it. It is honest. I'm glad you point that out. The reason I put the
:12:39. > :12:41.question the way I put the question is because not every DUP
:12:42. > :12:44.representative I would be having this conversation with who would
:12:45. > :12:49.express views in the way you'd express them. It is very significant
:12:50. > :12:53.you're seeing what you're saying. As politicians we have to be more
:12:54. > :12:57.honest. Otherwise the sort of crisis were in at the moment will become a
:12:58. > :13:01.normal feature of Northern Ireland political life and the fact of the
:13:02. > :13:06.matter is the chuckle Brothers, as it was derided, is actually
:13:07. > :13:11.something for people to look back on and see if we had that type of
:13:12. > :13:13.relationship, some of the problems to do with reconciliation that
:13:14. > :13:17.Martin McGuinness has chided and scolded and some of the issues that
:13:18. > :13:20.we tidied and scolded Sinn Fein about, those issues would not be as
:13:21. > :13:27.difficult to deal with. They will still be there. What do you think
:13:28. > :13:33.then is your message to those members of the DUP watching this
:13:34. > :13:37.choking on their horror lurks? Thinking, steady on, Ian, let's not
:13:38. > :13:40.over do it here. We remember him from the past and we find it
:13:41. > :13:58.difficult to forget that in the circumstances.
:13:59. > :14:04.It will not put our country back together again. We have a
:14:05. > :14:09.responsibility as political leaders to put this back together again and
:14:10. > :14:14.the sooner more of us are honest about this, the better. I don't
:14:15. > :14:20.expect Martin McGuinness or anyone to deny who or what they are or what
:14:21. > :14:26.has happened in the past. If they did it just to make it easier for
:14:27. > :14:32.me, it would not be honest. What is your response to that? Are you
:14:33. > :14:38.surprised? No, I am not because I know that Martin will do good
:14:39. > :14:41.relationship with many unionists and the Paisley family. I am not
:14:42. > :14:48.surprised that they now at a personal level his commitment to
:14:49. > :14:57.reconciliation. I am is that Ian is honest enough to say that. I know
:14:58. > :15:08.that let down by both governments -- Martin felt let down. We needed to
:15:09. > :15:09.see more generosity and the spirit of reconciliation and genuine
:15:10. > :15:19.power-sharing and we were not getting that. And then obviously the
:15:20. > :15:21.RHI scandal developed and was being investigated. These issues were
:15:22. > :15:27.flagged up and I think we are looking for not a new agreement but
:15:28. > :15:39.genuine partnership and adherence to principles of the Good Friday
:15:40. > :15:42.Agreement. Ian Paisley, what do you say, in response to the interesting
:15:43. > :15:46.question about the current leadership of the DUP and its
:15:47. > :15:51.approach to Sinn Fein and how it dealt with Martin McGuinness and the
:15:52. > :16:00.way the party had those Russian jets under your father. Martin McGuinness
:16:01. > :16:05.said he asked Arlene Foster to cooperate with him. Do you think the
:16:06. > :16:15.current DUP leadership has gone off the rails? I am always honest with
:16:16. > :16:18.you. If people do not learn lessons from what we do politically then we
:16:19. > :16:22.are destined to repeat mistakes. Lessons that are learnt from the
:16:23. > :16:33.present time so mistakes are not repeated. Has Arlene Foster got it
:16:34. > :16:37.wrong? I will say it very plainly that there are lessons to be learned
:16:38. > :16:45.on all sides of this to make sure we get... Including an the DUP
:16:46. > :16:48.leadership? There are lessons to be learned on all sides and we must
:16:49. > :16:52.learn them or we will keep on repeating these mistakes. Thankfully
:16:53. > :16:57.the mistakes which have been made at the present time are not the
:16:58. > :17:02.mistakes of atrocity but of policy and politics and by politicians and
:17:03. > :17:07.I hope that the craft of politics now improves and the short learning
:17:08. > :17:09.curve people are an on all sides of the organisation starts to learn
:17:10. > :17:22.more. Let's bring in our Political Editor,
:17:23. > :17:25.Mark Devenport, who spoke to Martin McGuinness this afternoon,
:17:26. > :17:27.and in our Foyle studio is Denis Bradley, the former
:17:28. > :17:30.Vice-chair of the Policing Board and author of the Eames-Bradley
:17:31. > :17:32.Report on the past, who's known You can't have been surprised
:17:33. > :17:38.at today's development? That does not surprise me but I'm
:17:39. > :17:41.glad to hear that warmth in the public statement and I think he is
:17:42. > :17:45.right that we need to get some of that warmth more often than we do.
:17:46. > :17:51.There will be people, and we spoke earlier on today, who are Unionists
:17:52. > :17:55.and nationalists and you will know them in your home city who will
:17:56. > :18:01.still struggle to forgive Martin McGuinness and forget his
:18:02. > :18:09.involvement 30 and 40 years ago. I am quite sure that is true. Martin
:18:10. > :18:13.and I come from the same part of Ireland, or at least our people do,
:18:14. > :18:20.and none of us were born with a spoon in our mouth and Marton like
:18:21. > :18:26.myself was an ordinary youngster, better looking than I was, mind you,
:18:27. > :18:32.but he was born into a very specific area and also a time within Irish
:18:33. > :18:40.history. As thousands of other youngsters were. You have used the
:18:41. > :18:43.word is a remarkable journey and it was one from fast becoming
:18:44. > :18:48.recognised within the republican movement and the IRA and Sinn Fein
:18:49. > :18:52.that he had abilities and then using those abilities and determination to
:18:53. > :18:58.actually bring that same organisation to an end. That is an
:18:59. > :19:05.enormous contribution to this island, to all the people. I will
:19:06. > :19:10.just say this, he used people like me and maybe specifically me at
:19:11. > :19:14.times, to actually save lives. I know there were alive is taken and
:19:15. > :19:18.many people hurt but he actually, where he could intervene and where
:19:19. > :19:24.he could use people like me to actually stop something happening or
:19:25. > :19:29.save somebody's life or make sure somebody wasn't killed then he did
:19:30. > :19:35.that and he did it often. So in some ways the peace side of him was
:19:36. > :19:40.always there and it developed and I think that is part of the remarkable
:19:41. > :19:45.journey. I think those people who are hurting because of the IRA need
:19:46. > :19:51.also to know that a lot of us were caught up in those times, in those
:19:52. > :19:55.dynamics, and if they had not been there and history had not been so
:19:56. > :20:03.cruel then perhaps we might have been better friends. What do you
:20:04. > :20:07.make of the warmth of the tribute paid by Ian Paisley to Martin
:20:08. > :20:12.McGuinness tonight and I wonder if you might have a stab at decoding
:20:13. > :20:17.his comments about the current DUP leadership needing to learn the
:20:18. > :20:22.lessons of the past? Understandable because Martin McGuinness built this
:20:23. > :20:26.report with Ian Paisley's father and that is remembered by the rest of
:20:27. > :20:31.the Paisley family. It is clear we could have other people from the DUP
:20:32. > :20:34.here tonight and they would not repeat those comments so it is not
:20:35. > :20:41.necessarily the sentiment of the whole party. I think obviously Ian
:20:42. > :20:46.is indicating that you need not just the cool and businesslike demeanour
:20:47. > :20:49.of more recent years but to build a bit of report to overcome
:20:50. > :20:59.difficulties and it did strike me as I was listening that sometimes
:21:00. > :21:03.people have said once the Troubles generation is gone then things will
:21:04. > :21:08.somehow become easier but it is not just that generation that poses a
:21:09. > :21:11.potential obstacle but you do need some of the personal gifts that
:21:12. > :21:16.Martin McGuinness used so much particularly in the latter of his
:21:17. > :21:21.career so we talk of having a long shopping list of demands and how
:21:22. > :21:29.difficult it was, it is never going to be quite as difficult as it was,
:21:30. > :21:34.we hope, as it was in the 90s but Martin McGuinness demonstrated
:21:35. > :21:38.bridge building skills, undoubtedly, and we will still need that in the
:21:39. > :21:44.future, whatever obstacles we are trying to surmount. Martin
:21:45. > :21:48.McGuinness said in the interview this afternoon that the announcement
:21:49. > :21:53.about his successor will be known next week and he says it will
:21:54. > :21:59.inspire people. Do you know who that is? It will be announced next week.
:22:00. > :22:04.The party is having discussions and making arrangements but one
:22:05. > :22:09.announcement today is plenty. Today we are dealing with Martin's
:22:10. > :22:13.resignation. There is business to be dealt with on Monday in the Assembly
:22:14. > :22:18.as well and we will come to that in the fullness of time. You talking to
:22:19. > :22:27.the new leader of Sinn Fein? You are not. The leader is Gerry Adams. The
:22:28. > :22:36.leader in the North is regarded as Martin McGuinness. You have just
:22:37. > :22:39.said it is not you. It is not. The replacement is yet to be decided and
:22:40. > :22:46.that will be announced next week. Would you be an inspiring choice? It
:22:47. > :22:54.depends on people's view. I'm not sure! A lot of people are suggesting
:22:55. > :23:01.on social media are suggesting you will be named as the next leader.
:23:02. > :23:08.The party will decide and it will be announced next week. I am surprised
:23:09. > :23:11.that you say it is yet to be decided because of Martin McGuinness said he
:23:12. > :23:16.had the fullest confidence in this person. He said in the leadership
:23:17. > :23:30.that will be announced. We are a party in transition and Gerry and
:23:31. > :23:33.Marton... There is a new leadership emerging and the people who will be
:23:34. > :23:40.at the point of that, the head of that in terms of the North, will be
:23:41. > :23:44.announced. The DUP has a woman in the leadership role. There is talk
:23:45. > :23:50.that Sinn Fein might want to mirror that by putting Michelle O'Neill
:23:51. > :23:57.there. Entirely possible. If you were a betting man? I have no vices
:23:58. > :24:07.whatsoever. You will have to wait till next week. A lot of people are
:24:08. > :24:10.suggesting on social media that Ian Paisley is in with a shout as the
:24:11. > :24:23.next leader of Sinn Fein after your comments tonight. Oh, sorry, the
:24:24. > :24:26.DUP. It doesn't matter who I want as the leader of Sinn Fein but what
:24:27. > :24:31.they're skills are. Skills that will include building a relationship to
:24:32. > :24:35.move the executive forward. That is where the lessons learned from the
:24:36. > :24:37.last number of weeks about how we try to create that Russian ship are
:24:38. > :24:51.important because they need political craft and -- relationship.
:24:52. > :24:59.They need political craft. Arlene Foster has your full support as
:25:00. > :25:08.leader? Yes. What would happen for that to change? For her to retire.
:25:09. > :25:14.And that would be her decision. Do you think that is imminent with the
:25:15. > :25:19.way the RHI thing has been handled? I have seen much adjusted to Connor
:25:20. > :25:26.and I almost felt sorry for him for a moment. I think a lot of people
:25:27. > :25:29.are saying that after what you were saying today it would like a pitch
:25:30. > :25:34.for leadership of your party. Are you positioning yourself in case
:25:35. > :25:46.Arlene Foster does not make it to them? -- until autumn. Are you going
:25:47. > :25:53.for director-general of the BBC? I don't think that position is
:25:54. > :26:02.available. Exactly it is an irrelevant question. Who needs to
:26:03. > :26:07.take over Sinn Fein? Someone without military involvement or a background
:26:08. > :26:10.in IRA? That is happening anyway. Time is passing and none of us are
:26:11. > :26:14.getting any younger who have been around in the 70s and 80s and I
:26:15. > :26:18.think that new generation is taking over. I'm not too sure the
:26:19. > :26:24.leadership of Sinn Fein is a vital issue. Connor referred to the fact
:26:25. > :26:28.that Martin had said he was disappointed and two governments in
:26:29. > :26:34.the last period of time. I would also echo that, that I would be
:26:35. > :26:37.disappointed at the distance the government has kept even when they
:26:38. > :26:40.tell us that they were there and they were up and down, foreign
:26:41. > :26:47.affairs are there, British government are there, they are
:26:48. > :26:50.keeping a watching rather than acting brief and I think next time
:26:51. > :26:55.we would need the involvement of both governments to bring this
:26:56. > :26:59.about. There is a growing danger that the institutions will not be
:27:00. > :27:03.re-established again. We will leave that there are.
:27:04. > :27:06.On last week's programme the Communities Minister,
:27:07. > :27:08.Paul Givan, made comments about the Finucane family
:27:09. > :27:10.during a discussion about the Renewable Heat Incentive scheme.
:27:11. > :27:13.We have been asked by the Finucane family to clarify
:27:14. > :27:15.that it has no position on the Renewable Heat
:27:16. > :27:19.Mr Givan went on to make reference to Sinn Fein advancing
:27:20. > :27:22.The Finucane family has asked us to make it clear
:27:23. > :27:25.that it does not support, or form part of, any
:27:26. > :27:30.The BBC regrets any distress caused to the Finucane family by those
:27:31. > :27:37.Now, we've become used to at least one politcal story every day,
:27:38. > :27:41.and today didn't disappoint with the news of that public inquiry
:27:42. > :27:54.-- that we were hoping to talk about but didn't quite get onto any detail
:27:55. > :27:55.of. In a moment we'll hear
:27:56. > :28:03.from the three opposition parties, There are shortcomings, for example
:28:04. > :28:09.ministerial interference and I pledge I will not interfere in this
:28:10. > :28:13.inquiry. Another shortcoming is that it is delivered to the minister so I
:28:14. > :28:18.make a pledge on Battle of Sinn Fein and myself that we will ensure any
:28:19. > :28:23.report that is delivered was directed the public. Set the
:28:24. > :28:26.shortcomings aside. Time is short. Any investigation or inquiry would
:28:27. > :28:30.have to go to the Assembly next week. The only route possible is a
:28:31. > :28:34.public inquiry and I have chosen that and I think the public welcome
:28:35. > :28:38.mat. They understand politicians fight their corner but there comes a
:28:39. > :28:44.time to make a decision. We welcome the change of heart from Sinn Fein
:28:45. > :28:47.in setting up this public inquiry. It is something I have been wanting
:28:48. > :28:53.for some considerable time. I think it was mid December when I said we
:28:54. > :29:00.wanted to take place. Earlier this week I wrote to the other parties
:29:01. > :29:03.and indeed Sinn Fein, suggesting a way forward but now I am very
:29:04. > :29:09.pleased that the inquiry is come to be set up and that finally we will
:29:10. > :29:15.get some due process in and around these matters and we will get to the
:29:16. > :29:22.truth about what happened in relation to the RHI scheme. As was
:29:23. > :29:25.confirmed yesterday in the committee I have absolutely nothing to hide.
:29:26. > :29:28.Joining me now are Nichola Mallon from the SDLP and Stephen Farry
:29:29. > :29:42.I do want to talk to you about RHI but I can't not talk to you about
:29:43. > :29:46.the retirement of Martin McGuinness. Extraordinary comments from Ian
:29:47. > :29:51.Paisley about the significance of Martin McGuinness's role. Philip,
:29:52. > :29:58.forgive me for saying, they are in stark contrast to the tribute paid
:29:59. > :30:03.by the -- your party leader this evening. Do you accept that? I wish
:30:04. > :30:07.Martin McGuinness well in his retirement and I hope he has a
:30:08. > :30:13.recovery from his illness. Undoubtedly, he has been on a
:30:14. > :30:19.journey from IRA commander and meeting the Queen, it's just a pity
:30:20. > :30:23.that as the leader of an organisation that made short the
:30:24. > :30:30.journey of many hundreds if not thousands of victims with their
:30:31. > :30:33.futile terrorist campaign that he couldn't in his words tonight
:30:34. > :30:39.actually expressed regret for the many victims that his organisation
:30:40. > :30:42.created. His past was more important than his present? He has been on a
:30:43. > :30:46.journey and I recognise that but we cannot forget the past and many
:30:47. > :30:52.hundreds if not thousands of victims. Undoubtedly, Martin has
:30:53. > :30:57.underwent a huge transformation and a very big political and personal
:30:58. > :31:01.journey. The true sign of leadership is having the courage to lead,
:31:02. > :31:06.bringing people with you and reach out to those who have been hurt.
:31:07. > :31:11.Martin has demonstrated he has all those qualities. The big challenge
:31:12. > :31:16.now is for those who are to step into his shoes. That type of
:31:17. > :31:21.leadership is needed now more than ever. Your thoughts on it. You have
:31:22. > :31:25.no difficulty paying tribute to him but how do you strike the balance
:31:26. > :31:31.can be constructive role and his past? I wished him well on Monday in
:31:32. > :31:34.the assembly. He is a leader and has travelled a very long distance and
:31:35. > :31:39.particularly his relationship with Ian Paisley was important and it
:31:40. > :31:45.shows that leadership has to be based not on just institutions but
:31:46. > :31:48.on mutual respect and trust. At the same time, this is the bigger issue
:31:49. > :31:54.than Martin McGuinness stepping down. There are some deep divisions
:31:55. > :31:58.between the parties, problems with the structures. He is going to be a
:31:59. > :32:03.very difficult act to follow in terms of what comes next. Let's talk
:32:04. > :32:10.about our each eye, that's what you are here to discuss. Under any other
:32:11. > :32:13.circumstances, do the programme would have been directed towards
:32:14. > :32:18.RHI. Were going to get more details in the assembly next week on the
:32:19. > :32:23.Finance Minister's public enquiry. It looks like you're getting what
:32:24. > :32:26.you want in terms of the public enquiries. Have Sinn Fein managed to
:32:27. > :32:31.outmanoeuvre or all of the parties by doing what they've done today? We
:32:32. > :32:37.sought to significant U-turns today, one from Sinn Fein and the DUP. Sinn
:32:38. > :32:42.Fein's U-turn was on the public enquiry. I was on the radio this
:32:43. > :32:47.morning and he was adamant there wasn't going to be a public enquiry
:32:48. > :32:52.and by early evening we've had someone saying the exact opposite.
:32:53. > :32:55.It's what you wanted. They may have come late to the party as far as
:32:56. > :33:00.you're concerned but never last Sinn Fein is doing what you wanted it to
:33:01. > :33:07.do. We will wait to see the detail of it next week from the statement
:33:08. > :33:12.to the assembly. I would have preferred the Secretary of State to
:33:13. > :33:18.have been leading on it and I hope whatever he proposes, there will be
:33:19. > :33:21.a preliminary report before action. Doesn't actually matter? You say
:33:22. > :33:26.you'd prefer the Secretary of State to be leading on it. It is going to
:33:27. > :33:32.be led by a judge, hopefully appointed by the Lord Chief Justice.
:33:33. > :33:35.That's what we want to see. That's what's happening. The Lord Chief
:33:36. > :33:43.Justice is happening. He was bitterly terms of residence
:33:44. > :33:47.together? More of that next week. A smart move by Sinn Fein. There has
:33:48. > :33:52.been flip-flopping in recent weeks, Declan made the case this morning on
:33:53. > :33:55.BBC radio Ulster in addition to be a public enquiry and then by tea-time
:33:56. > :34:01.there has been a U-turn. The point is it's happening. It is finally
:34:02. > :34:06.happening. The gathering by Sinn Fein over the past 30 days has cost
:34:07. > :34:12.the taxpayer two point three ?5 million. It is cause them a lot of
:34:13. > :34:18.money for every day the debt owed. This scandal didn't just come on
:34:19. > :34:22.Sinn Fein's horizon when the BBC ran the Spotlight programme. The me
:34:23. > :34:27.about it in February and it cost ?20 million, that we have been
:34:28. > :34:30.consistently Colin the three parties very public enquiry and finally a
:34:31. > :34:35.significant cost to the taxpayer, it Sinn Fein are done the right thing.
:34:36. > :34:39.That is to be welcomed. There can be no political interference in this.
:34:40. > :34:45.The appointee must be on the recommendation of the Lord Chief
:34:46. > :34:50.Justice and the report must be published up its immediate
:34:51. > :34:55.completion. We are very clear... March movie and has said it will
:34:56. > :34:58.happen. It would have been much better if Sinn Fein is keen to this
:34:59. > :35:02.position earlier on because it wouldn't have done the damage that
:35:03. > :35:08.it has done and it would have done the damage has done to the public
:35:09. > :35:11.purse. James Brokenshire Shire said the announcement is important to the
:35:12. > :35:16.confidence in the ability of the institutions to deliver and help set
:35:17. > :35:19.the tone for the election to come. Do you agree? Misses commentary from
:35:20. > :35:22.the sidelines in the Secretary of State who could have called this
:35:23. > :35:28.public enquiry several weeks ago in line with some of the warnings we
:35:29. > :35:32.were given. Does it matter? The point is it's happening. I welcome
:35:33. > :35:38.the fact were having it but I angry and frustrated. This could have
:35:39. > :35:41.happened many weeks ago. In that interval we have seen our political
:35:42. > :35:47.institutions collapse. It is uncertain if they are going to be
:35:48. > :35:51.restored. We have a very long potential gap between restoration.
:35:52. > :35:55.The establishment of a public enquiry would have saved the
:35:56. > :36:01.institution. You can reasonably say the blockage around the RHI scandal
:36:02. > :36:02.was the final straw and there were structural problems
:36:03. > :36:11.behind-the-scenes, tension is building up over Brexit. This was
:36:12. > :36:16.the straw that broke the camel's back. If this had beaten to -- that
:36:17. > :36:21.plays much earlier, we wouldn't have had a situation where we don't have
:36:22. > :36:26.a budget, no plans in terms of Brexit. There is a real pain down
:36:27. > :36:28.the tracks for the fact we don't have the Government in Northern
:36:29. > :36:32.Ireland and no one is going to be arraigned for several months taking
:36:33. > :36:36.decisions and that could have been avoided. Simon Hamilton has said he
:36:37. > :36:42.is publishing the names at the recipients of the RHI scheme next
:36:43. > :36:48.Wednesday. Do you welcome mat? Absolutely, if he is filled his
:36:49. > :36:53.promise. Are you clear of what that means? Not in terms of what he is
:36:54. > :36:56.promising to do. Arlene Foster has promised a public enquiry in other
:36:57. > :37:01.proposals that never actually came for it. We will wait and see what
:37:02. > :37:09.comes forward. I mentioned earlier to U-turns. The DUP this special
:37:10. > :37:11.advisers, one has no stood aside and one has resigned from their post
:37:12. > :37:21.after saying there was nothing to see here. They both maintain that
:37:22. > :37:25.position? Why has he resigned? He's become a distraction is the
:37:26. > :37:29.explanation. We are seeing bureaucracy within the DUP. The
:37:30. > :37:35.power they seem to have within other organisations. I just wonder who is
:37:36. > :37:38.making the decisions. Is it elected politicians are special advisers?
:37:39. > :37:43.That is something that will come out of this public enquiry. Is the
:37:44. > :37:48.publication significant? It is very important we get the heart of who
:37:49. > :37:53.has benefited -- benefit from this scheme. We need also remember there
:37:54. > :37:56.is a number of organisations and businesses that Anfield this scheme
:37:57. > :38:00.in the right way, there were those that abused it. We mustn't allow to
:38:01. > :38:04.happen is for companies and visitors who have done no wrong because they
:38:05. > :38:11.legitimately appealed the scheme to be used as scapegoats. Was there any
:38:12. > :38:15.evidence that would be the case? It is something we have to be concerned
:38:16. > :38:18.about. There is a mudslinging campaign or people are accused of
:38:19. > :38:21.doing things wrong with that they haven't. There are people within the
:38:22. > :38:28.political system that had done things wrong. You can't say you want
:38:29. > :38:31.to protect these businesses who have quite legitimately taken out an
:38:32. > :38:37.investment through the RHI scheme and at the same time complain about
:38:38. > :38:42.losing ?85,000 a day and ?20 million a year. It's got to be one or the
:38:43. > :38:47.other. It's not about the protection of farms. It's finding out who
:38:48. > :38:50.benefit. We are finding out who abuse the scheme and who were in
:38:51. > :38:57.positions of authority, what they knew, when they knew it and what
:38:58. > :39:01.they did did not do to try to it. VDU PR Bisley has its bad troubles.
:39:02. > :39:06.Maybe Arlene Foster can have a spring in her step in the end of the
:39:07. > :39:09.week now that the permanent secretary has said there was no
:39:10. > :39:13.evidence of any wrongdoing on her part that he could see. He as a
:39:14. > :39:20.civil servant is not going to challenge her. He gave a very
:39:21. > :39:24.straight and serve. It was following the advice of the civil servant.
:39:25. > :39:30.Ministers are there to set the policy and scrutinise what's coming
:39:31. > :39:35.forward from their officials. I would also stressed that special
:39:36. > :39:39.advisers act solely on behalf of ministers. The are fully accountable
:39:40. > :39:43.for the action of his special adviser whether the actions are
:39:44. > :39:48.authorised not. If special advisers are involved in the actions, the
:39:49. > :39:53.ministers do have to be accountable. No doubt that is something the
:39:54. > :39:56.enquiry will look at in considerable detail. Thank you all very much.
:39:57. > :39:58.And joining me now in Commentators' Corner are Newton Emerson
:39:59. > :40:15.That alter course. In a direction I didn't necessarily anticipate. --
:40:16. > :40:22.that all took off. What you make of the tribute Ian Paisley me to Martin
:40:23. > :40:26.McGuinness tonight? His father's enemy and latter-day friend? You
:40:27. > :40:29.could say it was extraordinary, it's show stopping. It properly did make
:40:30. > :40:37.people take a second look and think did I really hear that? He is in the
:40:38. > :40:43.spirit that we need more generosity, more compassion. What he has said
:40:44. > :40:45.does not in any way diminish his Unionist credentials, he still
:40:46. > :40:49.supports the union but he is able to see that Martin McGuinness was a
:40:50. > :40:54.peacemaker, that he pushed the boundaries and I thought it was
:40:55. > :40:56.interesting that he said because of Martin McGuinness people alive today
:40:57. > :41:02.that otherwise wouldn't have been. He didn't focus on the negative, he
:41:03. > :41:07.could have. What is fascinating, if you took a random sample of 50
:41:08. > :41:13.members of the DUP and put them in that seat, how many of them would
:41:14. > :41:17.say anything close to what he said? Almost none. Ian Paisley is not in
:41:18. > :41:23.the leadership of the DUP so a remark like this can only be aimed
:41:24. > :41:27.at the leadership of the DUP. A to think that was a formidable pitch
:41:28. > :41:31.for the leadership of the future. In my view, he is very clearly and
:41:32. > :41:37.correctly judged what has gone wrong which is very much the style and
:41:38. > :41:40.tone of the present leadership. It explains an absurd extent,
:41:41. > :41:44.everything that has gone wrong at the moment. We did see signs today
:41:45. > :41:50.that Arlene Foster is beginning to... Was that a thinly veiled
:41:51. > :41:59.criticism of the leadership of Arlene Foster? It was very fierce!
:42:00. > :42:06.And being diplomatic. She is down and he has given her a kicking. You
:42:07. > :42:10.seriously think as much as that? He was basically saying what we are
:42:11. > :42:15.missing here is the ability to build relationships, to be pragmatic, to
:42:16. > :42:18.be progressive. Which isn't to say you should welcome an amazing
:42:19. > :42:25.demonstration of what it all like that can achieve. It was a very
:42:26. > :42:28.assertive to Arlene Foster. All focused on the person of Martin
:42:29. > :42:36.McGuinness. Ian Paisley throws no punches on other issues when the
:42:37. > :42:40.notion takes them. He's also saying the politics of Northern Ireland are
:42:41. > :42:44.at risk here and he is recognising the danger that if we don't sort
:42:45. > :42:53.this out, we are looking into a very precarious future. In that sense, he
:42:54. > :42:57.is... Although there are many tears not shared Martin McGuinness inside
:42:58. > :43:02.the DUP at the note you will be difficult to replace. The are not
:43:03. > :43:08.concerned about more assertive Sinn Fein but we don't think the talent
:43:09. > :43:11.is there. That has an interesting point. Conor Murphy was very cagey
:43:12. > :43:15.about whether he is going to be taking over from Martin McGuinness.
:43:16. > :43:18.After what he said, you would properly think not. Martin
:43:19. > :43:22.McGuinness suggesting he's going to be an inspirational choice. I
:43:23. > :43:27.thought a head towards Michelle O'Neill? In recent days, the mood
:43:28. > :43:31.has been moving towards Michelle O'Neill. She has been described as
:43:32. > :43:38.their senior minister and of good money, the betting money on her. She
:43:39. > :43:40.is clearly up for the replacement. Maybe we will know this time next
:43:41. > :43:41.week. Thank you. That's it from The View
:43:42. > :43:43.for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics
:43:44. > :43:46.at 11.35 here on BBC One. So, from tomorrow we will have a new
:43:47. > :43:50.man in the top job across the pond. But let's not forget
:43:51. > :43:52.the guy that's leaving. He and his family have given us
:43:53. > :43:54.some memorable moments. Donald Trump, tweeting out insults
:43:55. > :44:55.to Angela Merkel?! This gives the Internet one last
:44:56. > :44:56.chance to talk about our bromance. I have two more words to say. Obama
:44:57. > :44:57.out. With visitors to
:44:58. > :45:01.Northern Ireland on the rise,