:00:00. > :00:00.For five years he's been the man in charge
:00:07. > :00:08.of the Ulster Unionist Party, but not for much longer.
:00:09. > :00:10.Tonight, in his first broadcast interview since
:00:11. > :00:12.he announced his resignation, Mike Nesbitt reflects
:00:13. > :00:41.As he leaves the party with just ten MLAs at Stormont,
:00:42. > :00:42.does Mike Nesbitt regret those pre-election comments
:00:43. > :00:55.But it wasn't because of what I said about the SDLP, it was because of
:00:56. > :01:01.what Arlene Foster said about Republicans. That crocodile comment
:01:02. > :01:02.really did serve as a lightening rod that incredibly energised
:01:03. > :01:06.nationalists and republicans. With the prospect of a border
:01:07. > :01:08.poll back on the agenda, we hear the views of border
:01:09. > :01:16.Protestants on Irish unity. I'd rather the border disappeared
:01:17. > :01:20.and we were governed by London because I value the NHS in here.
:01:21. > :01:23.Also tonight, we're live in Washington as President Trump
:01:24. > :01:25.hosts his first St Patrick's Day reception at the White House.
:01:26. > :01:27.And putting their heads together in Commentators' Corner
:01:28. > :01:29.are columnist Alex Kane and Allison Morris
:01:30. > :01:40.After five years in charge of the Ulster Unionists,
:01:41. > :01:43.Mike Nesbitt is preparing for a new life out of the spotlight.
:01:44. > :01:47.He's kept his counsel since announcing his intention
:01:48. > :01:49.to stand down at that dramatic election night press conference
:01:50. > :01:52.almost a fortnight ago, but tonight he's broken his silence
:01:53. > :01:54.to give his first broadcast interview to The View.
:01:55. > :01:58.When he came into the studio earlier, I began by asking him if it
:01:59. > :02:00.had ever crossed his mind during the campaign that it
:02:01. > :02:12.It was a very hard election to predict. I have fought a number of
:02:13. > :02:16.elections since 2010 actually if you count being a candidate, a campaign
:02:17. > :02:20.manager and party leader, nine in seven years. And this was the
:02:21. > :02:25.hardest to call. So yeah, when you're out on canvass you think what
:02:26. > :02:32.if it goes well? What if it goes badly? And it didn't go well? It go
:02:33. > :02:39.well in terms of the seats and there is no point me saying to you we put
:02:40. > :02:43.18% on to our first preference that some people did exceptionally well
:02:44. > :02:49.like Robin Swann put his own vote up 37% because the fact is that 16
:02:50. > :02:54.seats in 108 seater Assembly is the equivalent of 13.3 in a 90 seater,
:02:55. > :02:59.we came back with ten. That's three down. And we couldn't afford to drop
:03:00. > :03:01.one and the buck stops with me. And the reality is those figures are
:03:02. > :03:06.interesting, but the figure that really counts is you had 16 and you
:03:07. > :03:10.have ten. You ran 24 candidates. You told me in a pre-election interview
:03:11. > :03:16.you believed you would win nearly all those seats and you won ten. How
:03:17. > :03:22.many, when we were having that conversation, did you really think
:03:23. > :03:26.you could win? What I said to you from memory is that we basically
:03:27. > :03:31.needed to win just about all of the 24 if we were going to replace the
:03:32. > :03:39.DUP because most of them would have been wins off the DUP. Although
:03:40. > :03:43.ironically our bun big success in East Antrim, John Stewart, took the
:03:44. > :03:47.seat off Sinn Fein. As Tom Elliott had taken the seat off Sinn Fein in
:03:48. > :03:50.the Westminster election in 2015. Did you believe you could win nearly
:03:51. > :03:55.all the 24 seats or were you just talking it up? No, I thought it was
:03:56. > :03:58.possible because it was a very, very difficult election to predict, but
:03:59. > :04:03.if you were in a normal democracy and that was the pitch that I made,
:04:04. > :04:08.you would say to yourself well, look we're going to the polls because of
:04:09. > :04:11.a scandal which reeks of incompetence and arrogance and
:04:12. > :04:15.cronyism and all the rest plus we've had ten years and three-man dates of
:04:16. > :04:18.the same two parties in the equivalent of ten Downing Street and
:04:19. > :04:22.Stormont Castle running the Government. So, the pitch was,
:04:23. > :04:26.folks, you can reward the Government if you really think they've done a
:04:27. > :04:29.good job and give them another mandate or for the first time in the
:04:30. > :04:33.96 year history of Northern Ireland you can actually say we'll dump the
:04:34. > :04:38.parties of Government and we'll give the opposition a turn and had there
:04:39. > :04:41.been a tsunami of support for that concept, then we could have come
:04:42. > :04:46.very close to 24, but there wasn't. Yes. Some people have said that it
:04:47. > :04:49.all went wrong for you during that interview in fact. That your
:04:50. > :04:54.comments on Sunday Politics in which you confirmed you would be giving
:04:55. > :04:58.your second preference to the SDLP rather than to thor unionist
:04:59. > :05:02.ultimately cost you your job? There is no evidence of that and I would
:05:03. > :05:06.like to see the evidence. No doubt in time as people reflect on the
:05:07. > :05:12.election we will get to that point. So all I can talk about Mark is
:05:13. > :05:17.anecdotal and that's not a firm foundation for opinion, but I was
:05:18. > :05:20.campaigning in Strangford which is a particularly heavily Unionist
:05:21. > :05:24.constituency and I would have said conservatively the reaction was
:05:25. > :05:31.about three to one positive reaction to what I had said. And then you
:05:32. > :05:34.look at one of the high casualty, high-profile casualties like Danny
:05:35. > :05:39.Kennedy who polled over 7,000 votes, that's 2,000 more than I got in
:05:40. > :05:44.strong ford and he didn't get elected, but it wasn't because of
:05:45. > :05:48.what I said about the SDLP it was because of what Arlene Foster said
:05:49. > :05:52.about republicans. That crocodile comment really did serve as a
:05:53. > :05:54.lightening rod that incredibly energised nationalists and
:05:55. > :05:59.republicans and that was the real quote of the election and the real
:06:00. > :06:03.consequence was the result that put Sinn Fein just a seat behind the
:06:04. > :06:09.DUP. It is fair to say, isn't it, not all your colleagues and indeed,
:06:10. > :06:15.former colleagues agree with your analysis, Sam Gardener says in
:06:16. > :06:18.today's Newsletter that that statement on Sunday Politics
:06:19. > :06:23.amounted to political suicide. He said you have shown a lack of people
:06:24. > :06:29.skills and Jo-Anne Dobson lost her seat and she says your comments cost
:06:30. > :06:35.her that seat. She said it was a get out of jail card for the DUP? I'm
:06:36. > :06:41.not going to wash the party's dirty linen in public. That's the position
:06:42. > :06:46.we were in in 2012-I took over the leadership. If you look at the
:06:47. > :06:50.election results there was a highly energised nationalist and republican
:06:51. > :06:54.vote. I did not energise a single one of those additional voters. So
:06:55. > :07:00.just to be clear before we move on. You do not regret what you said
:07:01. > :07:06.about transferring to the SDLP on Sunday Politics? No, what I said was
:07:07. > :07:10.vote Ulster Unionist and vote for any candidate that you trust to do
:07:11. > :07:14.the right thing, but on a personal basis because of the circumstances
:07:15. > :07:17.you found myself in, living and voting in east Belfast and because
:07:18. > :07:21.of the DUP candidate, who was being recommended to me for a preference,
:07:22. > :07:25.that I could not do it because it would have been the height of
:07:26. > :07:29.hypocrisy to do that and therefore, as a small gesture, I was going to
:07:30. > :07:32.give a preference to a candidate who was never going to get enough votes
:07:33. > :07:36.to qualify for any preferences because he went out in the first
:07:37. > :07:40.round. Was the difficulty for you that members of your party didn't
:07:41. > :07:45.understand exactly what it was that you were saying because you hadn't
:07:46. > :07:52.prepared them for it? And also, on the other hand, Colum Eastwood
:07:53. > :07:54.didn't reciprocate on the programme? I heard commentators saying he
:07:55. > :08:00.didn't bring the party with him. There were some clues there, Mark,
:08:01. > :08:04.party conference, I invited Colum Eastwood to come and speak. The
:08:05. > :08:10.party gave him a standing ovation. Later in my remarks I said vote
:08:11. > :08:15.Colm, get Mike to counterbalance the idea the them and us that was so
:08:16. > :08:21.prevalent again on 2nd Marchment the clues were there. Our manifesto said
:08:22. > :08:27.for a proper partnership. My message was a partnership of the winning,
:08:28. > :08:32.not two parties the DUP and Sinn Fein who share that space at
:08:33. > :08:36.Stormont Castle not because they want to, but because the law says
:08:37. > :08:41.they have to. I want to talk about mixed messaging. People have said
:08:42. > :08:45.that the difficulty was that Ulster Unionist Party voters didn't know
:08:46. > :08:53.what Mike Nesbitt and the Ulster Unionist Party stood for. You
:08:54. > :08:57.referenced the vote Mike, vote Colm. When you took over five years, you
:08:58. > :09:03.talked about a modern progressive unionism. Then we had this electoral
:09:04. > :09:06.pact for the general election back in 2015. A lot of people don't know
:09:07. > :09:13.what direction you were trying to take the party. Well, let's go back
:09:14. > :09:18.to five years ago. I had only been in the party two years and I'd only
:09:19. > :09:22.been elected a number of months when I became leader as Harold Macmillan
:09:23. > :09:26.said you have to react to events and the events of the day, we were in
:09:27. > :09:31.the mouth of the centenary of the covenant. So unionism was being very
:09:32. > :09:34.reflective, it was quite inward looking at the time. There was a
:09:35. > :09:39.concern about what the Parades Commission might do to the centenary
:09:40. > :09:45.parade so people were looking to Peter Robinson and Mike Nesbitt to
:09:46. > :09:48.stand shoulder-to-shoulder. It they were being nostalgic about united we
:09:49. > :09:54.stand and divided we fall. I went with the flow, even though it might
:09:55. > :09:59.have been counter-intuitive. Were you uncomfortable? That doesn't
:10:00. > :10:04.appear to be modern, progressive unionism? My idea of progressive
:10:05. > :10:09.modern unionism is unionism of partnership and what I dislike about
:10:10. > :10:12.the DUP is that they are promoting a unionism of domination and so you
:10:13. > :10:18.have the rogue and the renegade ministers. You have the crocodile
:10:19. > :10:24.comment and that unionism of domination is a shortcut to a united
:10:25. > :10:28.Ireland. If we want the union to be safe, you've got to maximise the
:10:29. > :10:33.number of people who are too busy making money, educating their
:10:34. > :10:38.children, accessing a Health Service without having to pay for and all
:10:39. > :10:42.the other benefits of the union. But what you're effectively saying, it
:10:43. > :10:46.is Arlene Foster and the DUP's fault for Mike Nesbitt's failure as leader
:10:47. > :10:50.of the Ulster Unionist Party, is that what you're saying? What I
:10:51. > :10:55.believe in is a partnership of the winning and I see that as a moderate
:10:56. > :11:02.way forward between the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP and I put
:11:03. > :11:05.that to the electorate on two occasions, Mark. And on both
:11:06. > :11:11.occasion they have voted or the alternative? I have gone out twice
:11:12. > :11:16.in an Assembly saying let's make this Stormont's first ever post
:11:17. > :11:20.sectarian election. Last May we really binged on policy, not just on
:11:21. > :11:23.manifesto, but no fewer than eight policy documents and we didn't add a
:11:24. > :11:27.single seat. I went out this time and said let's make it a post
:11:28. > :11:31.sectarian election and we dropped seats. So I've nothing else to
:11:32. > :11:35.offer. It is my only vision. That's not the direction that members of
:11:36. > :11:40.the Ulster Unionist Party or Ulster Unionist voters want to go? But
:11:41. > :11:46.you're selling them the wrong message. Do you accept that? No, we
:11:47. > :11:49.put 18% on a first preference vote. Those are not the figures that
:11:50. > :11:53.count. It does show you something in terms of people buying into the
:11:54. > :11:59.message. Does that mean that Arlene Foster in your view is a credible
:12:00. > :12:02.overall leader for unionism? My focus is on the Ulster Unionist
:12:03. > :12:07.Party, we will shortly elect a new leader. That new leader will have my
:12:08. > :12:12.100% support. I do hope and it will be no surprise to the new leader
:12:13. > :12:16.that he or she continues with the idea of a coalition of the willing,
:12:17. > :12:20.a moderate unionism and not this unionism of dom thation. Do you
:12:21. > :12:24.believe that the future of unionism is safe in Arlene Foster's hands?
:12:25. > :12:27.Arlene Foster may come back as First Minister. This is a matter for
:12:28. > :12:31.speculation. I'm focussed on the Ulster Unionist Party. But there has
:12:32. > :12:37.been a lot of talk since the election about the prospect of
:12:38. > :12:41.closer relations within unionism and the prospect frankly of unionist
:12:42. > :12:45.unity. How concerned are you that your successor, whoever that might
:12:46. > :12:49.be, decides the way to move unionism and wants to build a closer
:12:50. > :12:53.relationship between the UUP and the DUP and perhaps sees a better future
:12:54. > :12:58.with unionism with those two parties merged? You've made references to
:12:59. > :13:02.mixed messages as a negative and I get that, that's fair enough, but
:13:03. > :13:07.let's look back to 2015 and the general election and I was reading a
:13:08. > :13:12.couple of days ago one of the newspaper editorials was citing it
:13:13. > :13:17.as possibly the finest example of unionist co-operation in the modern
:13:18. > :13:23.era. The north Belfast, Fermanagh was my idea. It got expanded out to
:13:24. > :13:26.four constituencies. What happened there, was incredibly mixed message
:13:27. > :13:30.because we were co-operating with the DUP to try and win Fermanagh and
:13:31. > :13:38.in south Antrim we were competing with them and took a seat off
:13:39. > :13:47.William McCrea. Let's fast forward to 2017. A good idea or a bad idea?
:13:48. > :13:52.Danny won south Antrim for the Ulster Unionist and Tom Elliott won
:13:53. > :13:56.Fermanagh and south Tyrone. You're trying to ride two horses there. I'm
:13:57. > :14:01.asking you to pick a horsement pick a horse. I don't have to. You don't
:14:02. > :14:05.have to pick a horse? Danny won and Tom won on two different platforms,
:14:06. > :14:11.competing and co-operating at the same time in the same election, we
:14:12. > :14:15.competed and we also challenged the DUP. What do you think the future
:14:16. > :14:19.holds for you now? Will you remain as a MLA for the full Assembly term?
:14:20. > :14:22.Well, I was elected to serve the people of Strangford and I will do
:14:23. > :14:26.that for those who voted for me, those who voted for others and those
:14:27. > :14:31.who didn't vote at all and that was the position since I was elected.
:14:32. > :14:36.You won't leave early? I have no intention of leaving early. There is
:14:37. > :14:40.plenty I want to do both in terms of constituency projects and also
:14:41. > :14:44.projects in terms of promoting unionism in this country. Any truth
:14:45. > :14:50.in the rumour that you fancy the role of Speaker? I would think it
:14:51. > :15:00.would be unlikely. Fair enough. What about a seat in the Lords? No.
:15:01. > :15:06.Ruling that out. OK. Do you have any regrets about changing your career
:15:07. > :15:09.path from well obviously journalism, you were a victims' commissioner to
:15:10. > :15:15.going down the route of seeking elected office? I think, I'll not
:15:16. > :15:20.bore you with the family history, but it is out there in speeches I've
:15:21. > :15:25.made. There is a kind of path that explains going from sports reporter
:15:26. > :15:28.to news to victims' to politics. And it's about trying to make this
:15:29. > :15:31.country a better place for the next generation. Mike Nesbitt in
:15:32. > :15:50.reflective mood earlier today. Shane Harrison in
:15:51. > :16:01.Washington, thank you. Things are different this year. They
:16:02. > :16:05.are very different because there is a new and very different president
:16:06. > :16:13.it has to be said who is putting America first and who is making a
:16:14. > :16:16.big play of issues such as the illegal or undocumented immigrants
:16:17. > :16:21.and it is the first time in recent years that there has been a
:16:22. > :16:24.reception without the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. At
:16:25. > :16:29.breakfast the main speech was given by the head of the Civil Service who
:16:30. > :16:33.painted an optimistic picture to the way the negotiations are going on at
:16:34. > :16:37.Stormont. He seemed to be more hopeful than perhaps people might
:16:38. > :16:42.think. Behind me, there is a reception going on. Just after the
:16:43. > :16:46.presentation of the bowl of shamrock, Gerry Adams and Ian
:16:47. > :16:51.Paisley are both present. Enda Kenny has been talking to
:16:52. > :16:54.president Trump and he has been making the case forcefully for the
:16:55. > :17:00.undocumented Irish? He has and he has been doing that all week at
:17:01. > :17:04.various stages on his trip here in Philadelphia, in Boston and here in
:17:05. > :17:08.Washington. He seems to be pushing for the idea that the Irish should
:17:09. > :17:12.be getting some sort of special treatment, but I can tell you from
:17:13. > :17:16.speaking to people on both sides of the House in Congress and indeed,
:17:17. > :17:20.some senators that is not going to happen. If there is going to be a
:17:21. > :17:24.deal, it's going to be for all the illegal immigrants. There are
:17:25. > :17:28.estimated to be 11 million or so and only up to 50,000 of whom are Irish.
:17:29. > :17:33.It's believed if the Irish were to get a separate deal it might be
:17:34. > :17:37.construed as racist by some people. Of course, Enda Kenny, Shane, made
:17:38. > :17:43.those comments at the Speaker's Lunch? Yes, he made the comments at
:17:44. > :17:46.the Speaker's Lunch and the Speaker's Lunch is a very relaxed
:17:47. > :17:51.affair. For example, the Speaker Paul Ryan made a speech in which he
:17:52. > :17:56.said that the previous president liked to play golf, the current
:17:57. > :17:59.president likes to own golf courses including one in Ireland! At the
:18:00. > :18:07.Speaker's Lunch, again, there was Gerry Adams and there was Ian
:18:08. > :18:11.Paisley. And after the Speaker's Lunch, I caught up with Gerry Adams
:18:12. > :18:15.and asked about his call for there to be no direct rule from the
:18:16. > :18:19.British if the negotiations don't progress quickly. There was some
:18:20. > :18:22.suggestion if we don't get agreement between the parties that form the
:18:23. > :18:29.executive that the British would bring back direct rule. I was merely
:18:30. > :18:32.pointing out in 2006 the British allowed that to lapse for good and
:18:33. > :18:35.made a commitment that they wouldn't legislate for the suspension of the
:18:36. > :18:41.institutions. So we're holding them to that. What was supposed to
:18:42. > :18:44.replace it was the Irish and British Governments co-operating in a
:18:45. > :18:49.partnership along with the parties in the north and I would presume if
:18:50. > :18:52.we get to the point where the British people they would reimpose
:18:53. > :18:57.direct rule that the Irish Government would be compelled to
:18:58. > :19:00.object. We don't envisage failure. Our resolve is to make this work,
:19:01. > :19:05.but we need the institutions back in place on the terms that they were
:19:06. > :19:09.established on. I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Taoiseach
:19:10. > :19:12.in his conversation with reporters after his meeting with Trump and
:19:13. > :19:17.they did speak about Northern Ireland, Mr Kenny told us that he
:19:18. > :19:22.had said that there can be no return to hard borders and also, there can
:19:23. > :19:28.be no return to direct rule. So are you reassured by that? Well, we need
:19:29. > :19:32.action. The difficulty in terms of Brexit is that if the British
:19:33. > :19:37.succeed in taking the north out of the European Union against the
:19:38. > :19:43.wishes of the people there, then the European Union will decide how hard
:19:44. > :19:51.the border is and I don't see there being anything other than a hard
:19:52. > :19:56.economic border because that will be the fronter of the European part and
:19:57. > :20:00.the non-European part. But are you reassured about his comments on
:20:01. > :20:06.direct rule? But we need to do is to uphold the agreement which was made
:20:07. > :20:10.in 2006. At the Northern Ireland breakfast this morning, there was no
:20:11. > :20:14.First Minister or Deputy First Minister present, but Sir Malcolm
:20:15. > :20:18.McKibbin gave a reasonably optimistic view of the way the talks
:20:19. > :20:21.are going on and he like yourself is heading back to Ireland for the
:20:22. > :20:25.resumption of those talks? I think it is true to say that the talks are
:20:26. > :20:34.being conducted in a cordial manner between the parties who might form
:20:35. > :20:37.an executive, but the issues that, I suppose, be devilled the
:20:38. > :20:44.relationship, issues around rights and legacy issues which the British
:20:45. > :20:47.Government is blocking and issues around rights for Irish speakers
:20:48. > :20:51.need to be put in place. There can be no return to the status quo. You
:20:52. > :20:55.will be at the reception in the White House. Many people in your
:20:56. > :21:00.party will be dismayed by your presence there. What would you say
:21:01. > :21:08.to them? Well, people in our party are entitled to their views on all
:21:09. > :21:12.these issues. The fact is the St Patrick's Festival in the USA is
:21:13. > :21:21.bigger than any president, and the time we are able to contact and
:21:22. > :21:26.brief and inform our friends here. We heard that President Trump does
:21:27. > :21:32.expect to visit Ireland sometime during his term of office? Yes,
:21:33. > :21:38.that's correct. He was asked in the Oval Office today by a reporter did
:21:39. > :21:43.he intend coming and he said yes, I love Ireland. I love Ireland. He
:21:44. > :21:48.repeated it so to emphasise the point and the Taoiseach did say that
:21:49. > :21:51.he had invited him. When Enda Kenny was asked in another interview did
:21:52. > :21:56.he think that President Trump would get a good reception? The Taoiseach
:21:57. > :22:00.said, yes, he thought he would, but I'm not too sure about that myself.
:22:01. > :22:01.I guess we'll find out in due course. Shane, thank you very much
:22:02. > :22:15.indeed. In Scotland Nicola Sturgeon
:22:16. > :22:17.announced her bid for another independence referendum
:22:18. > :22:20.while Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail have been setting out their plans
:22:21. > :22:22.for securing a United Ireland. That prompted unionists to seek
:22:23. > :22:24.assurances from the Prime Minister that a border poll doesn't feature
:22:25. > :22:27.in her master plan. But what do unionists have
:22:28. > :22:29.to fear from the idea? Enda McClafferty's been to Donegal
:22:30. > :22:31.and his report begins with the descendant of a well-known
:22:32. > :22:47.American folk hero. When it comes to living on the
:22:48. > :22:54.frontier, this man is an expert and he's well named. Meet Davey
:22:55. > :23:03.Crockett, not so much king of the wild fronter, but gatekeeper on the
:23:04. > :23:09.Irish frontier. There used to be a gate to cross
:23:10. > :23:13.here, but since 1922, 1923, the border came into being so then this
:23:14. > :23:16.is the republic. We have sheep in the republic here and they're tagged
:23:17. > :23:21.in the republic. We work with the department in the republic. We've
:23:22. > :23:26.sheep in the north down here. You could say he has a foot in both
:23:27. > :23:30.camps. So how would he feel if the border and his land disappeared and
:23:31. > :23:35.he was living under Dublin rule? I would rather the border disappeared
:23:36. > :23:39.and we were governed by London. I value the NHS in here. All right, it
:23:40. > :23:44.has its critics, but it is better than we have out in the republic.
:23:45. > :23:49.And therein lies the problem for Sinn Fein and others who are trying
:23:50. > :23:53.to sell a united Ireland to unionists. How do they convince
:23:54. > :23:56.people like Davey Crockett that life really would be better on the other
:23:57. > :24:00.side of the fence? What about the experience of the Protestants who
:24:01. > :24:07.already live in the republic? Do they see the benefits of a united
:24:08. > :24:14.Ireland. . Attacks like this, two orange halls in Donegal were torched
:24:15. > :24:20.by arsonists. Two years on, one has been repaired, the other still in
:24:21. > :24:25.ruins. It is very unsettling one to try and understand that why it had
:24:26. > :24:30.happened. We had actually had a group of ex-republican and loyalist
:24:31. > :24:33.prisoners here as part of peace and reconciliation projects so we
:24:34. > :24:38.thought we were being part of something of the greater good for
:24:39. > :24:43.the whole island and all of a sudden we were targeted for no apparent
:24:44. > :24:46.reason. The attack was widely condemned and the Orange Order got
:24:47. > :24:50.offers of help from the local Catholic community including the use
:24:51. > :24:55.of the nearby GAAhall. They received tens of thousands of pounds from the
:24:56. > :25:03.Irish Government. So how would he feel a border poll? I'm a unionist.
:25:04. > :25:08.I'm a relic of the empire. What has been left here after partition as a
:25:09. > :25:11.unionist community living as I deem myself a unionist living within the
:25:12. > :25:15.Republic of Ireland. Just a few miles away, the experience is very
:25:16. > :25:19.differentment here at the Ulster Scots heritage centre, they
:25:20. > :25:27.celebrate and educate both traditions. Any talk of the border
:25:28. > :25:31.on the northern side injects my co religionists with fear. In contrast
:25:32. > :25:38.you come over to east Donegal and the border is never mentioned. The
:25:39. > :25:43.people that I minister to here are happy. Even though they are
:25:44. > :25:47.Protestant. They're happy to identify as Irish citizens. And
:25:48. > :25:51.that's what Ian McCracken discovered when he carried out research into
:25:52. > :25:56.the thinking of Protestants along the border. Ian says he has never
:25:57. > :26:00.experienced discrimination, but he has faced questions about his
:26:01. > :26:08.identity. It's when you're asked are you Irish or are you British or what
:26:09. > :26:12.is your identity that people begin to think about it and if they feel
:26:13. > :26:16.there is a challenge, then it becomes an issue. So what do you
:26:17. > :26:24.consider yourself then? Are you Irish or British? I consider myself
:26:25. > :26:28.Irish. I've lived here, literally, all my life and I wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.thought of living anywhere else. For Davey Crockett, it is not about
:26:34. > :26:36.politics. For him, it's simple economics.
:26:37. > :26:41.I would vote to stay in Britain. The people that are in Northern Ireland
:26:42. > :26:47.will vote for the nationalists until it comes to a vote for a border poll
:26:48. > :26:52.and then economically they'll look, what do we see what way we're better
:26:53. > :26:55.off? So we put that theory to the Des in Derry city centre. Would you
:26:56. > :27:04.vote for a united Ireland right now? No. Why not? Because I don't think
:27:05. > :27:07.they it is settled in the south. I'm happy with the way things are in the
:27:08. > :27:11.country at the minute. So I don't see any reason for a border poll. I
:27:12. > :27:20.would vote for a united Ireland. Why? The people would be far better
:27:21. > :27:24.off. With a united Ireland than the way it is now. I would scrap
:27:25. > :27:28.Stormont. Would you vote to join a united Ireland or stay in the UK?
:27:29. > :27:33.Stay in the UK possibly. Why is that? Well, I mean the Government in
:27:34. > :27:37.the Irish Republic at the minute isn't good either so I think we're
:27:38. > :27:43.better with what we have. A border poll is not on the horizon just yet,
:27:44. > :27:45.but it is unlikely to disappear in what will be a changing political
:27:46. > :27:48.landscape post Brexit. Plenty to mull over
:27:49. > :28:00.with our commentators and tonight we welcome the Irish News
:28:01. > :28:02.correspondent, Allison Morris, for her first appearance
:28:03. > :28:07.in the corner alongside the familiar Alex let's talk about the Mike
:28:08. > :28:12.Nesbitt interview. He kept his counsel for two weeks almost since
:28:13. > :28:16.he announced his resignation. Did he shed any light on his leadership and
:28:17. > :28:21.what has made him tick over the past five years, do you think, in that
:28:22. > :28:28.conversation? No, I don't think he did. I would have thought since this
:28:29. > :28:35.was his first major interview since standing down, he would give some
:28:36. > :28:41.reflective and this thing about the mixed messaging, when he talked
:28:42. > :28:44.about giving his second preference to the SDLP, it was off the top of
:28:45. > :28:48.his head and he hadn't discussed it with anyone. Within hours they were
:28:49. > :28:51.asking Ulster Unionist candidates who were saying no, we're not doing
:28:52. > :28:59.that, we're staying with the unionists. That became the mixed
:29:00. > :29:04.message. He isn't aware, when it didn't have any effect, there were
:29:05. > :29:07.people who were up until that minute were considering giving the Ulster
:29:08. > :29:10.Unionist Party a vote when they saw the reaction from his party and
:29:11. > :29:18.candidates... There is no evidence of that as he points out. That's
:29:19. > :29:22.anecdotal? It is anecdotal, a lot of people said to me, I get it through
:29:23. > :29:26.the columns and through e-mails and through my Twitter feed. A lot of
:29:27. > :29:29.people said to me within hours of your interview he has lost. One of
:29:30. > :29:40.the candidates phoned me half an hour later and said, "He has
:29:41. > :29:44.probably cost me my seat." Allison he was saying I did my best
:29:45. > :29:49.and there was a logic and he doesn't have any regrets? It was
:29:50. > :29:54.fascinatingly dull that interview and what he wouldn't say. He's
:29:55. > :29:58.continuing to blame Arlene Foster on the Ulster Unionist Party's defeat.
:29:59. > :30:02.I think that at this point in time, the mark of a proper leader is
:30:03. > :30:07.someone who will say, "I messed up and I take responsibility." But he
:30:08. > :30:14.was batting it off to Arlene Foster. I think it clearly cost him votes
:30:15. > :30:20.the SDLP remark, he said the guy he was transferring to had no chance of
:30:21. > :30:26.ever getting elected. Why would you transfer to him? You may as well
:30:27. > :30:33.throw your vote down a drain. I think that anyone who was a moderate
:30:34. > :30:37.unionist and was thinking about transferring, went to the Alliance
:30:38. > :30:41.Party. He is clearly not a fan of closer unionist unity and he was
:30:42. > :30:44.critical there of Arlene Foster's comments, some of them during the
:30:45. > :30:49.campaign, critical of the way in which the DUP does its business. He
:30:50. > :30:53.doesn't like it. He talked about its unionism being based on domination
:30:54. > :30:56.and he's not happy about that. So it's clear the direction of travel
:30:57. > :31:00.they thinks the party should go in his absence. Is there any indication
:31:01. > :31:04.that's what is going to happen? He didn't do that himself, Mark. He
:31:05. > :31:09.talked about not liking the DUP, but back, he said I'm going with the
:31:10. > :31:13.flow back then with the Ulster covenance, I went with the flow
:31:14. > :31:19.against my intuition and then he did the pact with the unionist forum
:31:20. > :31:24.whiches involved the TUV and other people and he did other electoral
:31:25. > :31:27.pacts. It goes back to the mixed message, you cannot say on the one
:31:28. > :31:31.hand I don't like the DUP, but hey, here is a new form, here is a new
:31:32. > :31:35.package, here is a new deal. The sort of people who might have been
:31:36. > :31:39.interested in Nesbitt gave up from him by the middle of 2013 because
:31:40. > :31:43.they realised this guy is not taking the party anywhere. He didn't want
:31:44. > :31:46.to answer the question of how historians might judge him. How do
:31:47. > :31:50.you think they will judge him? I don't think his career ended the way
:31:51. > :31:54.he would have liked it to have ended. I think he was diplomatic and
:31:55. > :31:58.holding back and he says he didn't want the job as Speaker, but you
:31:59. > :32:02.have to wonder is he holding his counsel because you have to be
:32:03. > :32:11.impartial to be Speaker and he has got his eye on that job. When I
:32:12. > :32:16.asked him that question? He said he never thought about it. It has been
:32:17. > :32:21.mentioned to me. He would be a good Speaker. Maybe Allison is right,
:32:22. > :32:29.he's holding fire and didn't want to be too controversial and didn't want
:32:30. > :32:34.to be attacking anyone. He could not have been clearer in the
:32:35. > :32:38.conversation that we recorded and afterwards, he said he knew nothing
:32:39. > :32:43.about the speculation of being Speaker. We'll find out on the 27th
:32:44. > :32:47.of this month. Let's a have word a about Gerry Adams in Washington.
:32:48. > :32:51.What did you make about what he had to say, the Irish Government is
:32:52. > :32:56.compelled to oppose any return to direct rule? I'm horrified that
:32:57. > :33:00.Gerry Adams is in Washington. The Trump leadership, there is nothing
:33:01. > :33:10.to be gained from Sinn Fein being there. Given the fact that Trump's
:33:11. > :33:15.first actions was to demonise women. I don't think he should be there. I
:33:16. > :33:18.don'tnd stand his position if he's saying there is not going to be an
:33:19. > :33:21.executive unless Arlene Foster is sidelined, but he doesn't want
:33:22. > :33:24.direct rule either. There is no provision for this mythical thing
:33:25. > :33:28.called joint authority. It doesn't exist in law. So I have no idea what
:33:29. > :33:33.he wants, but I suspect they are close tore a deal than any of us
:33:34. > :33:36.think. Gerry Adams point is that St Patrick's Day in Washington is
:33:37. > :33:42.bigger than a Trump administration? Well, St Patrick, it is the patron
:33:43. > :33:51.saint of Ireland, he could go to a St Patrick's Day event in Dublin.
:33:52. > :34:00.The links between Sinn Fein and their supporters are strong enough.
:34:01. > :34:01.That's it for The View. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35am on BBC
:34:02. > :34:06.One. But in a week when Martina Anderson
:34:07. > :34:08.captured the headlines with that Brexit speech in Strasbourg,
:34:09. > :34:18.we thought we'd leave you with some So Theresa your notion of a border
:34:19. > :34:29.hard or soft, stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Stick it. Stick it.
:34:30. > :34:36.Why does this Government treat Alberta like a fart in the room. I
:34:37. > :34:42.apologise now. And I stand by what I said. It was a falsehood that was a
:34:43. > :34:51.lie. I have to order the honourable member to withdraw immediately. I
:34:52. > :34:55.still refer to him as Dodgy Dave. Do what you like.