:00:00. > :00:00.Political pacts - for some parties, they come at too high a price.
:00:00. > :00:08.For others, there could still be capital to made out of doing a deal.
:00:09. > :00:32.Tonight - can a pact ever work positively?
:00:33. > :00:36.We'll hear from the SDLP, the party that wanted one,
:00:37. > :00:38.and the Alliance Party, which says pacts are
:00:39. > :00:49.The UUP and the DUP have had pacts in the past, of course -
:00:50. > :00:52.but will they be able to agree one this time in a constituency
:00:53. > :01:08.Unionists have been attempting the pack game for years but they
:01:09. > :01:10.continue to play. -- the pact game. And miss.
:01:11. > :01:12.Plus - deepening divisions on dealing with the past.
:01:13. > :01:14.As a Westminister committee recommends that soliders who served
:01:15. > :01:16.here during the Troubles should be protected from future
:01:17. > :01:18.prosecutions, we'll hear from the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson
:01:19. > :01:22.And with their thoughts on that and more, Fionnuala O Connor
:01:23. > :01:30.and Alex Kane are back in Commentators' Corner.
:01:31. > :01:32.No sooner had Theresa May taken everyone by surprise
:01:33. > :01:35.on Easter Tuesday with her announcement of a general election,
:01:36. > :01:37.than talk of political pacts here took off.
:01:38. > :01:40.On one side are the DUP and the Ulster Unionists who've met
:01:41. > :01:44.once, but so far there's been no word of a deal.
:01:45. > :01:46.On the other side, the proposed pro-Remain alliance -
:01:47. > :01:49.though that looks like it could be dead in the water already.
:01:50. > :01:51.Gareth Gordon took himself off to South Belfast,
:01:52. > :01:53.a constituency where both pacts are - or certainly
:01:54. > :02:15.It is hep, happening and the fate in places and very diverse but when it
:02:16. > :02:19.came to elections, once South Belfast moved in one direction. The
:02:20. > :02:23.official Unionist is the man to beat. He is altogether more
:02:24. > :02:31.conventional in both religion and politics. His party decided that
:02:32. > :02:37.they kindly are changing. A car accident no longer tells the story
:02:38. > :02:42.of this constituency. He wasn't kidding. When Martin Smith stood
:02:43. > :02:45.down 12 years ago, Alistair MacDonald broke the mould for
:02:46. > :02:50.nationalism and he has held on a lot more comfortably than Unionists
:02:51. > :02:53.would like ever since. And that is at least partly because they keep
:02:54. > :02:59.getting in each other's way, something these boulders in south
:03:00. > :03:06.Belfast know all about. Unionists have been trying to perfect the game
:03:07. > :03:16.of pacts in south Belfast for years, but they continue to play and miss.
:03:17. > :03:22.In the CRA, it sounds quite simple. I agree on strong candidate, give
:03:23. > :03:25.them a clear run and they will knock the former SDLP leader out of the
:03:26. > :03:28.way and reclaim the seat for unionism, but they haven't so far
:03:29. > :03:34.been able to agree with that candidates should be or what party
:03:35. > :03:38.they should belong to, and things looked less than promising this time
:03:39. > :03:43.as well. Whether there is room for anything else, certainly we at the
:03:44. > :03:47.moment are looking for candidates in relation to South Belfast and that
:03:48. > :03:52.is a position at this point in time, and I think I can give you an
:03:53. > :03:56.exclusive, it will not be me. At this exchange the man who stood for
:03:57. > :04:02.the Ulster Unionist Party this time encounters a voter who believed a
:04:03. > :04:08.unionist pact existed. This time Robbie McEwen will watch on from his
:04:09. > :04:11.new home in Singapore. I am more likely to be contesting their
:04:12. > :04:16.selection than Jonathan Bell of the two a contested at last time and I
:04:17. > :04:21.am not going to be contesting, so neither party has an obvious
:04:22. > :04:24.candidate in terms of someone in the constituency who would expect to do
:04:25. > :04:30.well and has a chance of unseating an incumbent which is always a
:04:31. > :04:33.challenge in Westminster elections, so there will be some thought that
:04:34. > :04:38.goes into it. One thought that crossed my mind is somebody like
:04:39. > :04:41.Danny Kennedy. I think he has that broader appeal and if you have an
:04:42. > :04:45.Ulster Unionist Party did it where you have the DUP stand aside, it has
:04:46. > :04:56.to be someone who can get that thought out as well. The bowlers are
:04:57. > :05:02.not fans of pacts. It is divisive, as under them, a unionist group
:05:03. > :05:07.joining with another or our national prescription joining with another.
:05:08. > :05:14.It'll be polarising, more than it has been, because there's so aggro
:05:15. > :05:20.between the parties, it is better. It is in this country. At times they
:05:21. > :05:27.have been used to make sure that someone from the other party, where
:05:28. > :05:34.the Unionists join together to make sure she didn't get back in, and I
:05:35. > :05:38.don't think it is a very good idea. Alistair MacDonald says he doesn't
:05:39. > :05:42.fear a unionist pact even if one happens. The SDLP has been the
:05:43. > :05:49.dominant party in this constituency and I have 13-mac Times and the
:05:50. > :05:52.people said it was impossible in 2005 and even in 2010 and then said
:05:53. > :06:00.it couldn't happen a time and then it happened three times. Are you
:06:01. > :06:04.going to win fourth time? Yes. You were selected very early and you had
:06:05. > :06:08.your posters up before almost anyone else, was back in case the party
:06:09. > :06:12.changed its mind? It certainly wasn't. I am happy to get on the go
:06:13. > :06:16.and I work with a small but formidable team of people and we
:06:17. > :06:23.wrote round the door is and I am out with them talking to them and I am
:06:24. > :06:27.driven by the people or around me. The constituency was often talked
:06:28. > :06:33.about for an anti-Brexit Alliance party candidate although the Green
:06:34. > :06:39.party eventually objected to Mr McDonnell. The Green Party were
:06:40. > :06:44.never going to be a serious player in any of the politics year. They
:06:45. > :06:49.have a couple of rules but they are not going to be a big player. I have
:06:50. > :06:53.been personally insulted and personally attacked over 40 years
:06:54. > :06:59.and I will not take that seriously. Meanwhile, he and we await to see
:07:00. > :07:01.what South Belfast does next. This once predictable constituency is now
:07:02. > :07:17.anything but. The political temperature in South
:07:18. > :07:20.Belfast and with me now, are the Alliance leader, Naomi Long, and the
:07:21. > :07:26.SDLP's Nichola Mallon.. You have been confirmed tonight is your
:07:27. > :07:29.party's candidate in east Belfast. Are you believed an agreed unionist
:07:30. > :07:34.candidate looks unlikely at this stage? From my perspective, it was
:07:35. > :07:39.always about running a positive campaign, that is what we did in
:07:40. > :07:42.2010 when we won and in 2015 when we narrowly lost and that is what we
:07:43. > :07:46.will be doing this time, because I believe we should be giving people
:07:47. > :07:50.something to vote for, not trying to get them to vote against something
:07:51. > :07:54.and that is fundamental to the way we change politics. You are not a
:07:55. > :08:00.fan of pacts because they work against your party in places like
:08:01. > :08:03.East Belfast? I think they deny the voters choice and this is the one
:08:04. > :08:08.opportunity to decide who is going to represent them for the next five
:08:09. > :08:12.years, and if we set behind closed doors and decide which party and
:08:13. > :08:15.which candidate will run then we are already taking the choice away from
:08:16. > :08:20.voters and the voters don't like it. I don't think it is the way we
:08:21. > :08:23.should do politics and we should put up and are of candidates and trust
:08:24. > :08:27.the voters because what you will find as they will make their own
:08:28. > :08:29.decisions and a lot of the time votes will shift to other parties
:08:30. > :08:45.during a first past the post election because they make a
:08:46. > :08:48.judgment as to who is most likely to win and they will back the candidate
:08:49. > :08:51.on the basis that is who they would prefer, and I think that is by now
:08:52. > :08:53.what politics is about, when you give people the option to vote for a
:08:54. > :08:55.positive message. Your party leader has criticised the Alliance Party
:08:56. > :08:58.for a statement it released about pacts yesterday. Why is the SDLP so
:08:59. > :09:01.sensitive on the subject?. I wouldn't see the SDLP is sensitive.
:09:02. > :09:05.We have to be mindful why Theresa May has called this election. It is
:09:06. > :09:12.to reinforce her hand for a hard Brexit and to decimate any
:09:13. > :09:19.opposition. The SDLP said was open to discussions around a broad-based
:09:20. > :09:24.Remain coalition and we reached out across political parties and said we
:09:25. > :09:27.were up around a agreed Remain candidates, and we were doing that
:09:28. > :09:32.because we believe it is in the best interests of people in Northern
:09:33. > :09:35.Ireland who voted in a majority to remain. And they want to protect
:09:36. > :09:41.them. You believe Alliance was too quick to level the charge of
:09:42. > :09:47.sectarianism. Why? To be honest, we found that accusation deeply
:09:48. > :09:55.offensive. It is possible to be a nationalist and anti-Brexit and
:09:56. > :09:59.anti-sectarian and we were not interested in sectarian pacts, but
:10:00. > :10:03.what were interested in was a broad-based coalition and Alliance
:10:04. > :10:08.dismissed that quickly out of hand. We engaged in a conversation with
:10:09. > :10:11.the Green Party and they had a now and we had any situation where we
:10:12. > :10:17.are still open to conversations around agreed candidates and if that
:10:18. > :10:21.doesn't work we will be standing. Why did that happen given that
:10:22. > :10:27.explanation? It wasn't just Alliance. Margaret Ritchie described
:10:28. > :10:34.the pact in sectarian when put forward by Sinn Fein. This was a
:10:35. > :10:40.couple of weeks ago, when Margaret Ritchie spoke she said the SDLP
:10:41. > :10:44.don't do pacts, so it is not just the Alliance party, at the time the
:10:45. > :10:50.SDLP thought they didn't either but what happened in this case and since
:10:51. > :10:55.2010 as Sinn Fein have held at the opportunity for some kind of pact,
:10:56. > :11:00.particularly around South Belfast, and they did this in 2010 and then
:11:01. > :11:05.refresh the idea around 2015 and then called for a Progressive
:11:06. > :11:10.Alliance, the term they used, and this time it has become an
:11:11. > :11:13.anti-Brexit pact, but at the core of it it is about two Nationalist
:11:14. > :11:18.parties coming together, neither of which bulked up the idea that a
:11:19. > :11:22.unionist pact was sectarian yet seemed outraged that anyone suggest
:11:23. > :11:26.the two nationalist parties doing the same thing. It is not
:11:27. > :11:31.nationalism that is sectarian because I think this is being taken
:11:32. > :11:34.out of context. Just because you a nationalist doesn't mean you are
:11:35. > :11:37.sectarian, or a unionist sectarian, but if you're going to ally that
:11:38. > :11:42.politics around that in question when it is not what is on the ballot
:11:43. > :11:47.paper, then that becomes sectarian in the context of Northern Ireland.
:11:48. > :11:51.You say that but the statement issued in your party's name said,
:11:52. > :11:57.the Green Party is now tainted from chasing a nationalist pact and
:11:58. > :12:02.pushing several constituencies into a sectarian headcount. Absolutely.
:12:03. > :12:05.You stand over that? I do stand over that and I didn't issue the
:12:06. > :12:09.statement sort is not the worst I would have used, but it is accurate
:12:10. > :12:13.in its content and if you listen to the euro package, the public would
:12:14. > :12:17.have seen it as a sectarian pact, and they would have seen, take South
:12:18. > :12:21.Belfast. At the start of the package we spoke about it being a united and
:12:22. > :12:34.diverse constituency and spoke about that dynamic, and what we would end
:12:35. > :12:36.up with as big unionist versus big nationalist and a stand-off in a
:12:37. > :12:40.constituency that should be inclusive.
:12:41. > :12:48.Does that satisfy you? No, it was an Alliance Party statement and we
:12:49. > :12:52.found it very aggressive. Does it help that she say she would not
:12:53. > :12:58.necessarily use of language? Yes, I welcome that. The party put out that
:12:59. > :13:03.statement and used that line which. The SDLP was clear that we would not
:13:04. > :13:08.enter sectarian pacts. We have been clear that pan nationalism is not an
:13:09. > :13:12.ideal of the SDLP. We think that it does nationalism greater harm,
:13:13. > :13:15.because it backs Unionism into a corner. Colum Eastwood was very
:13:16. > :13:18.clear from the start. Unfortunately, people didn't listen to what he was
:13:19. > :13:21.saying, they took an interpretation and run with it. I don't know how
:13:22. > :13:27.many times they have to make it clear. This was about a broad-based
:13:28. > :13:33.Remain coalition involving parties across the political divide and
:13:34. > :13:38.right across the community. The one sitting Unionist MP who happens to
:13:39. > :13:49.be in favour of Remain was not even approached about a pact. Sylvia
:13:50. > :13:53.Harman, the obvious go to unionist, was not approached. The DUP and
:13:54. > :13:59.Ulster Unionists already in talks about the pact. Do you really think
:14:00. > :14:03.that Alliance would have been wise to become a figleaf for what was
:14:04. > :14:07.essentially going to be a nationalist pact? There is no sense
:14:08. > :14:10.in that. What I think would have been helpful is for people to have
:14:11. > :14:14.the space and willingness to have a conversation around it. I can tell
:14:15. > :14:18.you that Colum Eastwood was genuine and what he was offering. It was not
:14:19. > :14:22.a figleaf, not a sham, not dressed about anything than what it actually
:14:23. > :14:25.is. That is a coalition to protect the democratically expressed wishes
:14:26. > :14:31.of the people of Northern Ireland, which is to remain within the EU.
:14:32. > :14:35.Which has nothing to do with holding three SDLP seats. He was clear that
:14:36. > :14:38.if he did not have a quick conversation with Sylvia Harman,
:14:39. > :14:42.that is an issue. But he was clear from the beginning that he wanted to
:14:43. > :14:46.have a conversation with nationalism, Unionism and anybody
:14:47. > :14:51.that wanted to have strong Remain voices. I don't want to labour the
:14:52. > :14:53.point, but you said yourself, you volunteered that he would not have
:14:54. > :14:57.used that line which in that statement. Was that statement a
:14:58. > :15:02.mistake, and should you be apologising for the tone that
:15:03. > :15:05.contributed to the wider debate? I don't think so. If you look at the
:15:06. > :15:08.statement in the context of what we said, firstly through the
:15:09. > :15:12.discussion, it is not my words because I did and speak them.
:15:13. > :15:17.Everybody has their own form of language and speech. There is an
:15:18. > :15:20.implied criticism? There is no implied criticism, I am saying very
:15:21. > :15:24.clearly it is not necessarily the way I would have said it. I don't
:15:25. > :15:28.resile from the content. Let's be clear, nobody balked at the notion
:15:29. > :15:32.when Unionism joined forces in the last election, of calling it out as
:15:33. > :15:38.a sectarian pact. Some of the parties went as far as to say it was
:15:39. > :15:41.not a Catholic about the place. If you are willing to bandy that kind
:15:42. > :15:48.of language around about the Unionist you can't say on the other
:15:49. > :15:53.side, it is OK when we do it. If it walks and quacks like a duck, it is
:15:54. > :15:56.a duck. That is how the public will make their judgment. When people
:15:57. > :16:00.bring forward proposals, we should have the space and be willing to
:16:01. > :16:02.listen. Just because other parties have engaged in sectarian pacts
:16:03. > :16:07.within unionism, does not mean anybody that wants to have a
:16:08. > :16:10.discussion around the coalition is necessarily advocating a sectarian
:16:11. > :16:14.pact. I think that was the issue. If you wanted to have a genuine open
:16:15. > :16:18.conversation, unfortunately other parties were not willing to do that.
:16:19. > :16:22.The Greens had a conversation, Sinn Fein was willing to have a
:16:23. > :16:28.conversation. It was not out of hand, it was out of principle. I do
:16:29. > :16:32.not believe it is right to have pacts. I believe it is up to the
:16:33. > :16:37.electorate to choose who votes for what. Are the Liberal Democrats,
:16:38. > :16:42.your sister party, wrong, standing aside, against the Greens? Is that
:16:43. > :16:47.wrong? I am not leading the Liberal Democrats. It is your sister party?
:16:48. > :16:51.If I were, they would not stand aside. If you had been leading the
:16:52. > :16:57.Alliance Party 2001, would Stephen Farry have stood aside? I voted
:16:58. > :17:03.against that of the time. It happened? Of course, at that time I
:17:04. > :17:07.was relatively low down on the party. Could you say there is a
:17:08. > :17:13.degree of hypocrisy? I understand why people pointed out, but there
:17:14. > :17:16.was no pact, no reciprocation for Alliance, nor did we see Kenny. It
:17:17. > :17:22.was not just something aside for Sylvia Harman, we stood aside for
:17:23. > :17:31.those that work for the Good Friday agreement. It was not just Sylvia
:17:32. > :17:35.Hermon. We were advocating something similar, to protect the interests of
:17:36. > :17:40.the people that voted for Remain. We learn from our mistakes. Are you
:17:41. > :17:45.going to be the SDLP candidate in north Belfast? We have said we are
:17:46. > :17:49.open to trying to find agreed candidates. If it doesn't transpire,
:17:50. > :17:55.the party will be standing in North Belfast. We have heard that Sinn
:17:56. > :18:02.Fein has selected Mairtin O Muilleoir. What do you make of that?
:18:03. > :18:06.A bit of a slap in the face to your party leader, who wanted closer
:18:07. > :18:11.cooperation? We expressed disappointment that people were not
:18:12. > :18:15.willing to take the offer. Alasdair McDonnell is a veteran. One thing
:18:16. > :18:18.about him is that he can fight and win elections. We look forward to
:18:19. > :18:23.him winning this election. The most bizarre thing about this is, despite
:18:24. > :18:27.the fact you think it is important that people at Westminster in order
:18:28. > :18:30.to do the job, you're still open to a coalition and a packed with a
:18:31. > :18:35.party that is not going to turn up. Sinn Fein have been clear. It is a
:18:36. > :18:38.fundamental issue. If we are going to have any impact on Brexit, the
:18:39. > :18:41.least we can do is turn up and do the job. That is why we have
:18:42. > :18:48.proposed a green candidates that we will take their seats. And Sinn Fein
:18:49. > :18:49.said no. We have covered a lot of ground. Thank you both for joining
:18:50. > :18:50.us. There's been a new call from MPs
:18:51. > :18:52.this week for a Statute of Limitations for soldiers charged
:18:53. > :18:54.with Troubles-related crimes. It wasn't the only recommendation
:18:55. > :18:57.from the Defence Committee at Westminster, which also called
:18:58. > :18:59.for a truth recovery process. But it was the suggestion that
:19:00. > :19:02.former soldiers and police officers should be shielded from prosecution
:19:03. > :19:39.that grabbed the headlines. Surely the answer has to be a
:19:40. > :19:44.statute of limitations, preventing the prosecution of veterans? If you
:19:45. > :19:51.introduce that, it is only directed at state actors, it looks like state
:19:52. > :19:55.impunity, in effect. The committee are satisfied the Government has
:19:56. > :19:58.options and a statute of limitations would be the most preferred.
:19:59. > :20:00.Everybody has to be equal under the law, there can be no immunity for
:20:01. > :20:12.people that killed Irish citizens. Jeffrey Donaldson, should anyone be
:20:13. > :20:17.above the law? In each of these cases, there has previously been an
:20:18. > :20:21.investigation. Indeed, in some cases, up to two or three
:20:22. > :20:27.investigations of these killings. On each occasion, decisions were taken
:20:28. > :20:32.not to prosecute. How much longer, for how much longer are we going to
:20:33. > :20:35.see retired soldiers and police officers, some of them now in their
:20:36. > :20:41.70s, being subjected to what effectively is a witchhunt against
:20:42. > :20:46.them? In a way that nobody else in Northern Ireland is? We have a
:20:47. > :20:50.legacy investigation Branch with the PSNI, and the majority of its
:20:51. > :20:54.resources today are devoted to investigating what soldiers and
:20:55. > :20:58.police did, rather than the fact that over 90% of the killings in the
:20:59. > :21:03.troubles in Northern Ireland were committed by paramilitary terrorist
:21:04. > :21:10.organisations. Soldiers and supporters see this as their way of
:21:11. > :21:13.achieving equality under the law. As they see it, terrorists were
:21:14. > :21:17.released under the Good Friday agreement, that is unfair, as far as
:21:18. > :21:20.they are concerned, this proposal redresses the balance? The fact is,
:21:21. > :21:24.what this is about is trying to get immunity for people killing Irish
:21:25. > :21:27.citizens. Whether they wear a uniform or not, which is why I said
:21:28. > :21:31.there should be equality under the law and no immunity for anybody. If
:21:32. > :21:36.you believe in the law, surely that is the way you approach it. Jeffrey
:21:37. > :21:39.has been involved in these negotiations, and I remember he was
:21:40. > :21:49.the one that argued most that they needed to be an investigative
:21:50. > :21:52.process. We now have the HIU. You get the agreement around legacy
:21:53. > :21:56.structures and we continue the breakthrough of these talks, and the
:21:57. > :22:02.DUP and I are saying we should move off into something. Or we can have
:22:03. > :22:05.the HIU, but it doesn't matter in the end, it is discriminatory, they
:22:06. > :22:15.want certain people away. Today on the news we had the case of Mr
:22:16. > :22:20.Watts, killed in 1971. Let me make this point, it took them 46 years
:22:21. > :22:23.just to get the acknowledgement, just to get the acknowledgement to
:22:24. > :22:28.say that person was innocent. There are people that have been waiting
:22:29. > :22:32.for the same period of time for justice, for acknowledgement, even,
:22:33. > :22:36.and they are not given up. It is discriminatory. You know that
:22:37. > :22:38.critics will say they are very keen on balance and very keen on
:22:39. > :22:42.fairness. But you want to have your cake and eat it, frankly, you want
:22:43. > :22:48.to see soldiers prosecuted but you are happy that on the runs should
:22:49. > :22:57.have letters of comfort and not come before the court? You mention that,
:22:58. > :23:00.in fact, talking about the PSNI doing is investigations, one of them
:23:01. > :23:06.that has been done is into over 200 so called on the runs. That is a
:23:07. > :23:10.complete falsehood. If you want to deal with balance, let's deal with
:23:11. > :23:14.balance. There have been 23,000 Republicans that have gone through
:23:15. > :23:19.the processes of court and jail. On the other hand, we had three four,
:23:20. > :23:24.possibly five, British soldiers convicted of murder. All of them
:23:25. > :23:28.were released with a short period of time, some within two years and all
:23:29. > :23:36.of them went back into the British Army. A number of them, at least two
:23:37. > :23:39.of them, were promoted through their old regiment. What is your
:23:40. > :23:45.counterargument? Very easy, these were people acting within the law.
:23:46. > :23:49.They were there to protect the law. They were convicted of murder! This
:23:50. > :23:52.is what happens when you are in a conflict and have soldiers in
:23:53. > :23:56.uniform, police officers, whose job is to protect the public. When the
:23:57. > :24:04.IRA opened fire on them, what are they expected to do? Use water
:24:05. > :24:07.pistols!? Individuals in a uniform, convicted for breaking the law? Yes,
:24:08. > :24:14.but many of the killings... Let's talk about these four 5ive cases...
:24:15. > :24:22.You might want to concentrate on four five of 8000 killings, because
:24:23. > :24:24.we need to concentrate. Samuel Donelson was murdered by the
:24:25. > :24:31.Provisional IRA on the 12th of August 1970, with his colleague, Roy
:24:32. > :24:35.Miller. That is a long time ago. Nobody has ever been brought to
:24:36. > :24:42.justice. Now, are his family not entitled to the truth? You talk
:24:43. > :24:46.about the length of time... Hang on a second... Who is arguing against
:24:47. > :24:50.that? All I have said is that people need to be equal under the law, and
:24:51. > :24:54.treated as equal under the law. Jeffrey is putting out examples of
:24:55. > :24:57.this. What he has said, essentially, is that anybody that way British
:24:58. > :25:02.uniform should not be touched, no matter what they did. That is
:25:03. > :25:09.exactly what you're saying, it is discrimination. I am saying weather
:25:10. > :25:13.has been an Article 2 investigation in the past and a decision not to
:25:14. > :25:22.prosecute, let's take the shootings by the SAS, and went all the way to
:25:23. > :25:30.the European Court of Human Rights. I know you don't want to hear this.
:25:31. > :25:35.I am going to have my say as well. I am going to have my say as well. It
:25:36. > :25:39.went all the weight of the European Court of Human Rights, who ruled it
:25:40. > :25:42.was lawful killing. That is the case in the vast majority of shootings
:25:43. > :25:45.that involved the police and the army. They were lawful killings.
:25:46. > :25:50.Jerry talks about people being above the law. Many of his colleagues are
:25:51. > :25:56.the recipients of the Royal Prerogative of Mercy. They were
:25:57. > :26:01.allowed to go free. That is above the law? Jerry was the postman that
:26:02. > :26:05.went around handing out the on the run letters to comrades, telling
:26:06. > :26:10.them they could return home and not face prosecution. I want to ask you
:26:11. > :26:14.specifically, the point that Gerry Kelly made a moment ago. He went on
:26:15. > :26:18.to make another point, on a tangent, with respect. He said 25,000
:26:19. > :26:22.Republicans have been through the prison system during the troubles,
:26:23. > :26:25.only five members of the security forces, the British Army, have
:26:26. > :26:31.actually served time, for varying periods of time, for crimes they
:26:32. > :26:36.committed when a uniform. There is a huge disparity. How do you account
:26:37. > :26:39.for that? Easily. The Provisional IRA were an illegal organisation.
:26:40. > :26:43.Loyalist paramilitaries were illegal organisations. Every time they
:26:44. > :26:48.acted, they were acting outside the law. The British Army, the Royal
:26:49. > :26:52.Ulster Constabulary, they are lawful organisations. On each occasion,
:26:53. > :26:55.when I acted, they were acting within the law, except on a small
:26:56. > :26:59.number of occasions when there were some who acted outside of the law
:27:00. > :27:06.and they have been brought before the courts. There are outstanding
:27:07. > :27:13.cases. Senior counsel themselves, talking to the British defence
:27:14. > :27:17.committee, which brought through the report, they said if you pursue
:27:18. > :27:20.this, you will be held about holding state forces, that they can act with
:27:21. > :27:26.impunity, and people know that they did. You cannot give them immunity.
:27:27. > :27:31.So, even the advice to the committee are saying they are wrong doing
:27:32. > :27:34.this, and yet they are pursuing it. It is a very discriminatory process,
:27:35. > :27:44.they are saying it is just to deal with these people, and just to deal
:27:45. > :27:51.with the article 2 issues, the HMIC itself said it was not Article 2,
:27:52. > :27:55.and they did not cover that. The British military, in the early 70s,
:27:56. > :28:03.were investigated by the British military police. They were not
:28:04. > :28:07.Article 2 compliant. These people... We are getting very technical.
:28:08. > :28:11.People need justice, do not be discriminatory.
:28:12. > :28:18.There are couple of other issues I want to talk about. Arlene Foster
:28:19. > :28:23.says the DUP has no deadline. She wants to get back to a functioning
:28:24. > :28:28.executive. Does that mean you previously stated opposition to an
:28:29. > :28:31.Irish language act has gone away? We want to hear from people who are not
:28:32. > :28:34.the weapon I think the Irish language like Sinn Fein, not
:28:35. > :28:40.politicising, but who genuinely want to see the Irish language promoted,
:28:41. > :28:41.and they want to hear from those people and that is exactly what she
:28:42. > :28:46.is doing. A spokesman for Conradh na Gaelige
:28:47. > :28:50.said today that that the DUP had confirmed "they were looking
:28:51. > :28:52.at content and legislative provision In terms of what it looks
:28:53. > :29:03.like we have yet to see," he added. Does that mean you're discussing and
:29:04. > :29:10.thinking about some kind of Irish language act? That may or may not be
:29:11. > :29:14.the outcome. Up to now you have said it will not be the outcome. I don't
:29:15. > :29:19.want to predetermine the outcome, we are also looking at what happens in
:29:20. > :29:24.Scotland and the Isle of Mann and Wales, all parts of the United
:29:25. > :29:27.Kingdom with minority languages. So the DUP's position is softening. We
:29:28. > :29:33.are looking to see how we can accommodate. Arlene Foster said
:29:34. > :29:39.there will be no Irish language act. That seems to have changed. I don't
:29:40. > :29:44.know that there will be an Irish language act. Up to know you said
:29:45. > :29:48.there wouldn't be. Let me put it this way, we remain to be convinced
:29:49. > :29:52.this is the most effective way to promote the language. But you have a
:29:53. > :29:56.lot less hostile, is that fair to say. We are willing to listen to
:29:57. > :30:02.what people have to say and take on board what they have to say and that
:30:03. > :30:05.is fear. Good news? Michelle O'Neill has welcomed the fact that Arlene
:30:06. > :30:10.Foster is owing to consider the Irish language act and I welcome
:30:11. > :30:14.that, but I don't know how you weapon I language, and if you start
:30:15. > :30:20.off by saying we're going to spot to the people who talk Irish but not if
:30:21. > :30:24.they support Sinn Fein or whatever, and if you talk about westernising
:30:25. > :30:30.and all that, the people who made the Irish language political was the
:30:31. > :30:36.DUP. Can I ask one last question. Is there going to be an agreed unionist
:30:37. > :30:41.candidate in south Belfast? I wouldn't just focus on South
:30:42. > :30:44.Belfast. I well because we have been focusing on that tonight. I listened
:30:45. > :30:46.carefully and we are not ruling out any option that the stage and
:30:47. > :30:50.continuing to any option that the stage and
:30:51. > :30:56.what our fellow unions, not just looking at South Belfast but a
:30:57. > :31:00.number of constituencies. We want to maximise unionist representation in
:31:01. > :31:03.the House of Commons, because we are unionist. That doesn't make a
:31:04. > :31:10.unionist pact sectarian because many people support the unionist parties
:31:11. > :31:16.who are not Protestant. All sitting DUP MPs will run again, is that
:31:17. > :31:17.correct? Yes and we will select candidates for other constituencies
:31:18. > :31:18.as well. We will we let the. And with me now to reflect
:31:19. > :31:21.on what we've been discussing tonight are Fionnuala O Connor
:31:22. > :31:31.and Alex Kane. Welcome to you both and thank you
:31:32. > :31:34.for joining us. A quick word about pacts first of all, what is your
:31:35. > :31:41.reading over what is happening in South Belfast? There may yet be an
:31:42. > :31:44.agreed unionist candidate and we know there will be someone running
:31:45. > :31:51.against Alistair MacDonald and you saw the report? It is un-readable.
:31:52. > :31:59.-- McDonnell. Nobody has written it down or talking clearly, beyond
:32:00. > :32:06.that, which I think leads it up in the air, it means that unless
:32:07. > :32:09.unionists get themselves very quickly, Alistair McDonnell might
:32:10. > :32:18.just get through again. I imagine they will get together. What did you
:32:19. > :32:22.make of, I will call it a conversation earlier, no great
:32:23. > :32:25.meeting of minds on what pacts mean for the democratic process? That is
:32:26. > :32:33.a bit of nonsense about are the sectarian or not. I hear unionist
:32:34. > :32:37.saying that is dreadful, like the lovely summing up of nationalists
:32:38. > :32:41.getting together being anti-unionist. What a dreadful
:32:42. > :32:48.thing, an awful thing for nationalists to be. And likewise...
:32:49. > :32:54.The UUP and the DUP are clearly talking. They spoke for themselves
:32:55. > :32:58.over the M Nesbit story for South Belfast, the Belfast Telegraph.
:32:59. > :33:03.Whatever happens, Mike Nesbitt will not be the agreed candidate. If you
:33:04. > :33:10.look at South Belfast and the shift in the unionism from the UUP to the
:33:11. > :33:13.DUP, take away the argument of the big traditional unionism, the
:33:14. > :33:19.present, and if you're looking for an ideal candidate, I think Robbie
:33:20. > :33:27.McEwen is right, at someday like Kennedy. The DUP believes itself to
:33:28. > :33:31.be the party in South Belfast. They want easily accept it but they are
:33:32. > :33:34.still talking and looking at the possibility which involves South
:33:35. > :33:38.Belfast and a couple of other constituencies, my betting as they
:33:39. > :33:41.would find that they look at an Ulster Unionist candidate, they
:33:42. > :33:47.would not be looking at Mike Nesbitt, they would possibly look at
:33:48. > :33:52.somebody like Danny Kennedy. In the meantime, the pause button has been
:33:53. > :33:54.pressed on the detox process. Apparently there will still be
:33:55. > :33:58.bilateral discussions but I don't think anybody is putting any great
:33:59. > :34:04.weight on that. Everything there was focusing on June nine. And an
:34:05. > :34:07.unnecessary pause button, nothing to pause, and Jim might tell us that
:34:08. > :34:11.things have been achieved and agreement had been reached on
:34:12. > :34:16.various issues. I doubt that he even believes that, certainly not the
:34:17. > :34:20.people in the Cox. Alex, do you agree, your pessimistic? I am always
:34:21. > :34:26.pessimistic. More than you usually are? Which is quite difficult! Detox
:34:27. > :34:31.are going nowhere, but again talks are going on and with Jeffrey, we
:34:32. > :34:34.cultivate the Irish language, softening up the stands, and when
:34:35. > :34:37.Alan Foster says she's willing to talk and listen to be void
:34:38. > :34:42.accommodate, that is a willingness to say we are prepared to move.
:34:43. > :34:46.There is wriggle room and that in itself is important but that is
:34:47. > :34:47.outside the talks process. Interesting times, thank you both
:34:48. > :34:48.indeed. That's it from The View
:34:49. > :34:50.for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics
:34:51. > :34:52.at 11:35 here on BBC One. But we leave you tonight
:34:53. > :34:55.with a reminder that there's really Here's a Vincent Hanna report
:34:56. > :34:58.from February 1974 - see how little has changed
:34:59. > :35:11.in 43 years! But the Ulster voters confused by
:35:12. > :35:17.the whole thing, this is the fourth Paul Lee have faced in 18 months.
:35:18. > :35:21.The Westminster elections should be about Westminster issues but of
:35:22. > :35:26.course it isn't and we know that. I think it is either for or against
:35:27. > :35:34.the executive, that is my opinion. I think it is a bit mixed up. We are
:35:35. > :35:41.not quite sure but it is to start a new assembly. This election goes to
:35:42. > :35:44.show again how vast a golf villas between politics in Northern Ireland
:35:45. > :35:48.and the listed United Kingdom. 48 candidate standing and not
:35:49. > :35:52.campaigning about industrial relations are North Sea oil, they
:35:53. > :35:56.are worried about the constitution of Ulster and the Sunnydale
:35:57. > :36:00.agreement. 26 of the candidates are in favour of the agreement but they
:36:01. > :36:01.are in disarray because they are fighting each other and splitting
:36:02. > :36:02.votes.