:00:00. > :00:00.Accusations of dark money donated to the DUP form the background
:00:00. > :00:11.Arlene Foster says officials have given the party the all-clear,
:00:12. > :00:38.Arlene Foster says the latest donation row is a reheated story
:00:39. > :00:40.stirred up by her political opponents, but refuses
:00:41. > :00:43.to identify three other people associated with the almost
:00:44. > :00:59.We dealt with it in the manner in which we needed to deal with it. We
:01:00. > :01:03.still don't know who the individuals involved are, you say we have to
:01:04. > :01:08.take your word for it that it was a permissible donation. Yes.
:01:09. > :01:10.Also tonight, the end of an era in the Republic.
:01:11. > :01:13.As Enda Kenny steps down as leader of Fine Gael,
:01:14. > :01:16.we look back at his time in office, and we'll hear live
:01:17. > :01:18.from Dublin on the two main contenders for the job.
:01:19. > :01:20.And, vying to take control of Commentators' Corner,
:01:21. > :01:23.Professor Deirdre Heenan takes on columist Newton Emerson.
:01:24. > :01:27.In the last election here, just a few months ago,
:01:28. > :01:30.Arlene Foster faced questions about a significant financial
:01:31. > :01:33.donation made to the DUP, and her judgment as a political leader.
:01:34. > :01:35.This time around, the same questions are being asked.
:01:36. > :01:38.The donation in question centres on money given by Richard Cook,
:01:39. > :01:42.the chairman of a group called the Constitutional Research Council.
:01:43. > :01:45.The Electoral Commission says it's not currently
:01:46. > :01:47.investigating the donation, but that hasn't stopped questions
:01:48. > :01:49.from the DUP's opponents about who else contributed money
:01:50. > :01:53.and the membership of the CRC, details of which Mr Cook and the DUP
:01:54. > :02:08.I began by asking Arlene Foster if she knows who precisely is behind
:02:09. > :02:15.the ?435,000 donation. In relation to the donation we have
:02:16. > :02:19.satisfied ourselves that it kept within all of the rules and was from
:02:20. > :02:24.UK businessmen. We are quite satisfied in the way it has been
:02:25. > :02:29.handled. This is a reheated story. We dealt with it back at the time of
:02:30. > :02:34.the Assembly election and we are dealing with the same story again.
:02:35. > :02:40.No new information at all. We have to ask ourselves why that is the
:02:41. > :02:44.case. Sinn Fein is trying to deflect attention from the real meaning of
:02:45. > :02:51.this election which is about the union trying to make sure it's the
:02:52. > :02:54.core of this election. I know you want to talk about other issues and
:02:55. > :02:59.so do I but the reason I think it's relevant at the moment is in
:03:00. > :03:04.February this year said Jeffrey Donaldson who got that donation for
:03:05. > :03:10.the DUP said he didn't need to know the identity of the true donor, but
:03:11. > :03:13.that's not correct in fact. Do you know the full identity of the
:03:14. > :03:18.individual or individuals who gave that money to your party? We are
:03:19. > :03:23.satisfied that people who gave the donation had every right to give the
:03:24. > :03:29.donation and they are UK business people. Are you satisfied because
:03:30. > :03:34.someone has told you that or do you actually know? As I understand it
:03:35. > :03:37.you have to provide that information to the Electoral Commission. And we
:03:38. > :03:43.have provided all the information we need to which is why this is a
:03:44. > :03:51.reheated story by political opponents. So you know who made the
:03:52. > :03:54.donation? Yes. So why won't you say? This is becoming a circular
:03:55. > :03:58.argument. When you say you've gone further than you had to buy naming
:03:59. > :04:03.Richard Cook and the CRC, why not now that there is further questions,
:04:04. > :04:09.why not clear the matter up by saying by the money came from? The
:04:10. > :04:13.money came from the CRC and they got the money from a number of donors
:04:14. > :04:17.who are UK business people and we are satisfied we have accounted for
:04:18. > :04:20.all of the rules. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of the
:04:21. > :04:24.matter. Except it might not be because as I understand it, Sinn
:04:25. > :04:28.Fein has issued a statement saying it is meeting the Electoral
:04:29. > :04:33.Commission about this subject. Your political opponents aren't going to
:04:34. > :04:39.let it go, you could deal with it by simply naming the individuals.
:04:40. > :04:43.Unless there's a reason not to? I have said that we have been very
:04:44. > :04:47.clear about making sure all of the rules were complied with. Whether
:04:48. > :04:53.Sinn Fein meets the Electoral Commission. I met them this morning
:04:54. > :04:57.in relation to polling agents and Sinn Fein polling agents taking
:04:58. > :05:02.information out of schools at polling stations. I met the
:05:03. > :05:07.Electoral Commission today and they will meet them tomorrow, that's what
:05:08. > :05:12.we do. If you were the leader of a political party in GB you would be
:05:13. > :05:20.required to name the donors. As you know the rules are different here in
:05:21. > :05:25.Northern Ireland. We've asked for the rules right across the UK so
:05:26. > :05:30.that Sinn Fein would have to tell us where they get their donations from.
:05:31. > :05:34.They are happy with the way that we have dealt with this matter and that
:05:35. > :05:41.is the end of the matter as far as I am concerned. Sir Geoffrey was asked
:05:42. > :05:45.if he knew that Richard Cook who runs CRC was involved in running an
:05:46. > :05:50.investment business with a former head of Saudi Arabian intelligence.
:05:51. > :05:54.He said he didn't know that. I think maybe that raised a few eyebrows
:05:55. > :05:59.because if there had been the proper kind of due diligence undertaken by
:06:00. > :06:04.the DUP in receipt of the donation, that is the kind of information that
:06:05. > :06:08.would have been thrown up. Why proper checks carried out? What has
:06:09. > :06:17.that got to do with the CRC of which Richard Cook is the chairman, and
:06:18. > :06:23.the money we received from Brexit? Two plus two does not equal 24. The
:06:24. > :06:27.facts are that we have answered all of the questions which the Electoral
:06:28. > :06:30.Commission have asked, they are satisfied we have done everything in
:06:31. > :06:34.accordance with the law and I am satisfied that we have. Behind all
:06:35. > :06:38.of this is the fact that people didn't like that we were part of a
:06:39. > :06:43.national campaign in relation to Brexit. We had taken our position up
:06:44. > :06:48.as a UK party and there's nothing to see. So people aren't going to know
:06:49. > :06:54.and you aren't going to tell them? We've gone further than any other
:06:55. > :06:57.party in Northern Ireland. Not as far as some people want you to go.
:06:58. > :07:01.We have accorded with the law and that is what we must do. You don't
:07:02. > :07:05.think this could be seen as a question of judgment on your part?
:07:06. > :07:10.Under your leadership the party chose to accept a donation of
:07:11. > :07:17.?435,000 and keep the detail of the donor secret. You could be construed
:07:18. > :07:22.as looking evasive on the subject. Mark, this is a reheated story from
:07:23. > :07:25.the Assembly election for the purposes to distract from the real
:07:26. > :07:29.issues. Sinn Fein have brought millions upon millions of pounds
:07:30. > :07:34.into Northern Ireland and nobody has known where that money has come
:07:35. > :07:37.from. We took money from the CRC to fight the Brexit campaign and have
:07:38. > :07:42.accorded with all the rules and regulations that we needed to deal
:07:43. > :07:46.with. You are criticising Sinn Fein for not being open about its
:07:47. > :07:52.donations but you won't be fully open about this very large donation.
:07:53. > :07:55.We received the donation from the Constitutional Research Council, we
:07:56. > :07:59.dealt with it in the manner we needed to deal with it. We still
:08:00. > :08:06.don't know who the individuals involved in the CRC are. We have to
:08:07. > :08:10.take your word for it that it was a permissible donation? Yes. The
:08:11. > :08:15.Electoral Commission, set up to manage these things, are quite
:08:16. > :08:19.satisfied. Note issue with your judgment on this matter? None at
:08:20. > :08:25.all. Your judgment has also been called into question at the weekend
:08:26. > :08:31.when you referred to Michelle O'Neill as "Blonde". Do you accept
:08:32. > :08:35.that was a mistake? Are you going to read the context of the comment?
:08:36. > :08:39.I've read it in great detail and the context is interesting. Do you
:08:40. > :08:47.regret calling her blonde? It was meant as a compliment, because we
:08:48. > :08:52.were talking about... But it was a mistake on reflection. It wasn't a
:08:53. > :08:57.mistake. It was a word association game and I think Michelle presents
:08:58. > :09:01.herself as a professional and it was meant as a condiment. It hasn't been
:09:02. > :09:05.taken as a compliment. It's not the issue we are dealing with in this
:09:06. > :09:08.election and I hope we don't spend this interview talking about matters
:09:09. > :09:12.that the population aren't interested in. But they are
:09:13. > :09:16.interested in is the union and whether we will have representation
:09:17. > :09:19.in Westminster. I think they are interested and want to know about
:09:20. > :09:24.the judgment and the leadership skills of individuals in charge of
:09:25. > :09:30.the parties in Northern Ireland. You don't regret the fact now that that
:09:31. > :09:33.has become an issue which has dominated the public discussion over
:09:34. > :09:41.the last five days? There's a difference between... It was a silly
:09:42. > :09:45.judgment on your part. I didn't think it was. I think I was being
:09:46. > :09:50.open with the journalists. Maybe you would rather I was left open with
:09:51. > :09:55.people. Now you want me to be guarded and not open. People know
:09:56. > :10:00.that I say it how it is and that's exactly what I did. It does
:10:01. > :10:05.frustrate me that we are talking about these issues instead of the
:10:06. > :10:09.issues around the union, representation, the restoration of
:10:10. > :10:12.devolution, the fact we need influence at Westminster. The
:10:13. > :10:16.difficulty for you now is that during the last campaign your
:10:17. > :10:20.attempts to impose on the unionist electorate managed to galvanise the
:10:21. > :10:24.nationalist electorate and you are doing it against PLO I'm not and in
:10:25. > :10:28.the last election I said the choice was simple. The choice was clear. I
:10:29. > :10:38.said the election was going to be terribly close. I was poo-pooed for
:10:39. > :10:42.that by many. They came within 1200 votes of becoming the last party.
:10:43. > :10:47.Actually all the things I said would happen if Sinn Fein had an increased
:10:48. > :10:52.mandate happened, and that's what happened. In terms of our own vote.
:10:53. > :10:57.As you note our boat increased numerically, despite all that was
:10:58. > :11:09.going on at that point in time -- as you know, our vote. Yours went down.
:11:10. > :11:15.That's not actually correct. You lost ten seats. Sinn Fein were
:11:16. > :11:20.within 1200 votes. There is a real wake-up call for unionists. You
:11:21. > :11:24.called it a wake-up call, that's not a good result. The last election was
:11:25. > :11:30.a perfect storm. We were under incredible attacks from both sides.
:11:31. > :11:33.Personally I was buffeted by everyone, not least the media and
:11:34. > :11:44.political opponents. I think the fact we came out with 225,000 votes
:11:45. > :11:48.was a good result. You and your opponents, many commentators have
:11:49. > :11:55.said it proved to be a gym and is recruiting service for Republicans
:11:56. > :12:00.-- a tremendous recruiting service for Republicans. 225,000 of our
:12:01. > :12:04.supporters came out and supported the DUP at the last election. You
:12:05. > :12:10.said there would be no Irish Language Act on your watch, has your
:12:11. > :12:13.position changed? We've had an engagement with the Irish language
:12:14. > :12:17.community which has been a user engagement. I'm going to continue
:12:18. > :12:21.with that, it hasn't completed yet and we will deal with all of these
:12:22. > :12:26.issues in terms of the talks. Has your position softened? The position
:12:27. > :12:31.at that time was that Sinn Fein were just talking about the Irish
:12:32. > :12:38.Language Act and nothing else. We've managed to widen the conversation to
:12:39. > :12:42.talk about culture, identity, Ulster Scots, British culture as well as
:12:43. > :12:46.the Irish language. We are looking at all of those issues in the talks.
:12:47. > :12:52.I've yet to be convinced that there is a need for an Irish Language Act
:12:53. > :12:57.but the conversation continues. You aren't completely ruling it out?
:12:58. > :13:01.It's a difference of emphasis, is it fair to say? It is a different
:13:02. > :13:06.emphasis because we have moved the conversation on, not just looking at
:13:07. > :13:10.one part of culture. Michelle O'Neill told me last week's
:13:11. > :13:13.programme that she would support legislative protection for Ulster
:13:14. > :13:20.Scots and orange culture if you agreed to an Irish Language Act. Do
:13:21. > :13:24.you welcome that? Yes I do welcome the fact we are looking at Ulster
:13:25. > :13:33.Scots, orange, British affirmation of identity. As you know, I've been
:13:34. > :13:38.getting a better understanding of the Irish language as well. Certain
:13:39. > :13:41.people think you don't have a political view on the Irish
:13:42. > :13:47.language. You said you would listen to and engage with those without a
:13:48. > :13:51.party political background. Why did you need to qualify who you would
:13:52. > :13:57.and wouldn't meet? I think it has been turned into a political issue.
:13:58. > :14:01.It is political. It has become a huge party political issue and
:14:02. > :14:05.that's what I want to do, to try and take the heat out of that
:14:06. > :14:11.politicisation of the Irish language. How does your engagement
:14:12. > :14:16.qualify as nonpolitical? What I was meaning was to say there have been
:14:17. > :14:20.very much use of Irish language to batter unionism. We've seen it in
:14:21. > :14:23.the chamber, and the way that people use Irish language to batter each
:14:24. > :14:27.other. Maybe they just love the Irish language. The way it is used I
:14:28. > :14:33.don't think that is the case. When I people who genuinely love the Irish
:14:34. > :14:36.language and the way they speak, I think there's a huge difference in
:14:37. > :14:41.the way they love the Irish language.
:14:42. > :14:47.That does not diminish your sense of Britishness to hear people using the
:14:48. > :14:52.Irish Language Act? You want to see a return to the devolved
:14:53. > :14:55.institutions as soon as possible? Absolutely, this is part of what
:14:56. > :14:59.we're talking about in this election, one of the five key pieces
:15:00. > :15:02.is around the restoration of devolution, we wish that happened
:15:03. > :15:06.already because we could have dealt with these issues any devolved
:15:07. > :15:10.administration but Sinn Fein are taking the party political route to
:15:11. > :15:14.say that until these issues are sorted out they will not go back to
:15:15. > :15:18.devolution. That is the problem. They are holding everybody else to
:15:19. > :15:23.ransom. Michelle O'Neill is sticking to her position, they will not
:15:24. > :15:27.support you in office until after the RHI Inquiry has reported and
:15:28. > :15:32.that could be two years, Michelle O'Neill said it will take as long as
:15:33. > :15:36.it takes so if you are determined to come back, devolution will not
:15:37. > :15:40.happen, you are holding people to ransom! That is a very skewed way to
:15:41. > :15:44.look at this, the people of Northern Ireland gave me a mandate, we have
:15:45. > :15:49.heard about respect from Sinn Fein, they need to respect my mandate as I
:15:50. > :15:53.will respect their mandate and they must respect that two-way process.
:15:54. > :15:57.Michelle O'Neill is clear she will work with you as the DUP leader and
:15:58. > :16:01.has no difficulty with that but would not support you as First
:16:02. > :16:06.Minister and is very clear that it is up to her and Sinn Fein to see
:16:07. > :16:10.who it is and is not prepared to share power with. What is
:16:11. > :16:14.unreasonable about that? If the people are going to be deprived of
:16:15. > :16:18.devolution because Michelle O'Neill does not want to share power with
:16:19. > :16:24.me... Despite the fact that... You must let me finish... Because the
:16:25. > :16:29.people of Northern Ireland voted in a particular way. This is not about
:16:30. > :16:33.me, this is about getting devolution restored for the people of Northern
:16:34. > :16:36.Ireland to deal with health, education and the community services
:16:37. > :16:40.that they are being deprived of, this is about a mandate I have
:16:41. > :16:47.received to represent... Can you imagine if I said I will not share
:16:48. > :16:53.power with Michelle O'Neill? With someone else? Caldera Sinn Fein held
:16:54. > :17:00.the unionist people who their leaders should be? It is an outrage
:17:01. > :17:06.and people recognise that. If it is not about you, should you not
:17:07. > :17:09.consider the speedy rest duration of the exaggerations by putting
:17:10. > :17:16.somebody else in as First Minister? -- speedy restoration. The
:17:17. > :17:21.institutions. The people gave their answer in the last election and the
:17:22. > :17:26.answer was they wanted me to be First Minister by leading the DUP.
:17:27. > :17:29.If your colleagues turned out to be more interested in the return of
:17:30. > :17:33.Stormont and they are a new coming back as First Minister, you have a
:17:34. > :17:40.problem. Is there any evidence of that? You tell me. There is no
:17:41. > :17:43.evidence of that. I lead a very unified party, I have been across
:17:44. > :17:46.the country and will continue with my colleagues because we focus on
:17:47. > :17:51.the election in front of us, which is about the union. One year ago we
:17:52. > :17:57.had so much political capital and you are fighting very hard to stop
:17:58. > :17:59.the loss of unionist influence here in Northern Ireland and across the
:18:00. > :18:06.water in Westminster, have you thought about that? Events, dear
:18:07. > :18:09.boy. And strong leadership comes forward, they deal with the issues
:18:10. > :18:13.they do not run away and stay with what is in front of them, and I will
:18:14. > :18:17.keep talking about the value of the union because it is so important to
:18:18. > :18:18.us socially, politically, economically and culturally and we
:18:19. > :18:21.need to make sure it stays in place. Arlene Foster talking
:18:22. > :18:22.to me earlier today. The decision by European leaders
:18:23. > :18:25.to put the Irish border at the centre of the Brexit
:18:26. > :18:28.negotiations has meant a familiar journey across the Irish Sea
:18:29. > :18:30.for broadsheets and broadcasters There was a time when they came
:18:31. > :18:34.here to report on the Troubles, but now the dividing line
:18:35. > :18:36.between Northern Ireland and the Republic has taken
:18:37. > :18:54.on a different significance, This is a reality of Belfast today.
:18:55. > :18:59.Bombs in the city centre, so much disruption. Back to the destruction
:19:00. > :19:05.and misery of one year ago. The casualty list is 160... For decades
:19:06. > :19:09.you could always find a story in Northern Ireland. But times have
:19:10. > :19:16.changed and some felt there was less to write about. So what do
:19:17. > :19:21.journalists from outside Northern Ireland expect their stories to be
:19:22. > :19:24.about? The Troubles, the peace process, perhaps the restoration of
:19:25. > :19:28.devolution? These narratives they have got to know over the years and
:19:29. > :19:32.they hope to understand. But there are signs of change, signs that the
:19:33. > :19:37.stories are about the border and about Brexit. Some were a little
:19:38. > :19:42.slow to cotton on to the relevance at first, well they have done so
:19:43. > :19:47.now. But it is a new story and they are still learning how to tell it.
:19:48. > :19:50.That can provide unusual challenges for broadsheet journalists here.
:19:51. > :19:57.Dealing with news desks across the water. My job on the ground is to
:19:58. > :20:02.impose some gravity on some of the stories, to pull it back to Earth.
:20:03. > :20:07.For example, some people assume in London but because a segment of
:20:08. > :20:14.unionist population voted to stay in the UK, suddenly due to Brexit they
:20:15. > :20:17.are born again united Ireland supporters, that is not the case and
:20:18. > :20:21.things have not changed that much in terms of the cottagey sharpish. The
:20:22. > :20:27.other assumption that is made across the waters sometimes is that Brexit
:20:28. > :20:31.will somehow lead to a renewal of conflict. Again, I have to impose
:20:32. > :20:37.the gravity here and say that on the ground that is not the case, for a
:20:38. > :20:42.variety of reasons. This new Brexit narrative came as a shot in the arm
:20:43. > :20:46.when the chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier put the Irish border
:20:47. > :20:53.in his top three big issues. London was not paying much attention, he
:20:54. > :20:55.came here and that look things up because they began to realise that
:20:56. > :21:06.it is going to be the only land border between the UK and Europe and
:21:07. > :21:08.the fact that it looked bad, I think, in the eyes of British
:21:09. > :21:13.Government to think that Europe was paying more attention to the border
:21:14. > :21:19.issue and London. It is London's border, it is their thing. There has
:21:20. > :21:24.been a certain amount of lip service with saying, we care deeply about
:21:25. > :21:27.this. Tonight we live in Northern Ireland, and the general election
:21:28. > :21:31.campaign has been dominated by the impending split from the European
:21:32. > :21:34.Union which has in turn hardened the old sectarian rivalries. Does
:21:35. > :21:41.anybody want to change this? This is a border, you're in the Republic and
:21:42. > :21:46.I am in Northern Ireland. Or the UK would ever you want to call it. It
:21:47. > :21:53.was Brexit about the BBC's Newsnight programme to Belfast this week. I am
:21:54. > :21:58.not sure if people perhaps in the south-east of England think it
:21:59. > :22:01.matters to them. But it does. And I think that is an issue and how we
:22:02. > :22:06.report. And I think the more reporting that comes from without
:22:07. > :22:13.that metropolitan... It is not a bubble but it is the focus, the
:22:14. > :22:17.better it is that news reporting from around the UK is very important
:22:18. > :22:23.and it is important that they understand the implications for
:22:24. > :22:26.Northern Ireland. This new story should run as long as the
:22:27. > :22:28.negotiations do. But who knows how long those watching now will stay
:22:29. > :22:34.interested? Will Leitch on the changing face of
:22:35. > :22:38.the Northern Ireland story. Enda Kenny has been labelled
:22:39. > :22:40."the unlikely Taoiseach" and "the accidental Taoiseach"
:22:41. > :22:42.but in a short time he'll be the ex-Taoiseach after standing down
:22:43. > :22:45.as leader of Fine Gael last night. The race to succeed him is now
:22:46. > :22:48.on with Leo Varadkar and Simon In a moment I'll be talking
:22:49. > :22:54.to the journalist Mary Minihan But first, how will history
:22:55. > :23:12.remember Enda Kenny? He is an extremely lucky person,
:23:13. > :23:19.yes, but he has had huge longevity which allowed things to happen. 41
:23:20. > :23:24.years at Leinster house as a TD and he went incurred young and
:23:25. > :23:27.astonished everybody in 2001 when he announced that he wanted to lead
:23:28. > :23:31.Fine Gael and by extension become a shock. I think he understands
:23:32. > :23:34.people, he is very affable and likeable and has a very sunny
:23:35. > :23:42.disposition. Very optimistic and positive. For that and other
:23:43. > :23:46.reasons, is considered to be a little bit lightweight by some
:23:47. > :23:49.people, frequently his own party leaders over the years did not
:23:50. > :23:55.especially Britain Northern Ireland was never a huge on his agenda, it
:23:56. > :24:00.rarely is with Fine Gael. But especially, it is not to be
:24:01. > :24:04.dismissive of Northern Ireland or the importance of it. It is
:24:05. > :24:12.essentially that the economy was the thing. I think he will be mostly
:24:13. > :24:16.remembered for fixing the economy of four of the economy being fixed on
:24:17. > :24:22.his watch. Now, he goes out on a high, perceived to have launched the
:24:23. > :24:26.Brexit negotiations in a favourable climate for Ireland.
:24:27. > :24:32.And the Irish Times reporter Mary Minihan joins me now.
:24:33. > :24:38.Welcome to the programme. John Downing referring to Enda Kenny as
:24:39. > :24:40.likeable, affable and a great survivor but he has been under
:24:41. > :24:47.pressure to go for quite some time? He has indeed. And the 20 16th
:24:48. > :24:52.general election was a very bad and for Enda Kenny and the Fine Gael
:24:53. > :24:57.party although he did manage, against the odds and expectations,
:24:58. > :25:02.to hold on Npower as Taoiseach. But really, this government and the last
:25:03. > :25:08.government has been plagued by problems involving water charges,
:25:09. > :25:11.the attempts to introduce them which have proved difficult for the
:25:12. > :25:18.government and they have faced resistance on that. And also various
:25:19. > :25:25.crises within the police force, that has been a very problematic area for
:25:26. > :25:31.Enda Kenny and resulted in various scandals and also the resignation at
:25:32. > :25:35.one point of his Minister for Justice, who went on to describe him
:25:36. > :25:42.as having a very casual relationship with the truth. But he has had an
:25:43. > :25:49.amazing stretch, I suppose, since coming into politics in 1975 and
:25:50. > :25:55.reaching the pinnacle, the summit of Irish politics as Taoiseach, more
:25:56. > :25:59.recently. He is a very conservative, west of Ireland man and yet he
:26:00. > :26:07.oversaw the same-sex marriage referendum in 2015, so he has had a
:26:08. > :26:12.mixed bag of a career, John Downing mentioned his engagement with
:26:13. > :26:16.Northern Ireland being limited and he did receive some criticism for
:26:17. > :26:21.that. I think, like a lot of departed working party leaders, he
:26:22. > :26:26.is probably better regarded abroad and at home and I am thinking of
:26:27. > :26:34.other leaders such as maybe Tony Blair or perhaps Bertie Ahern. In
:26:35. > :26:37.your view, is a natural successor? There are certainly two contenders.
:26:38. > :26:44.They have announced their intentions to take over Fine Gael and also to
:26:45. > :26:50.become Taoiseach, they help. One of them is Leo Varadkar, he is 38 and
:26:51. > :26:56.Simon Coveney, 44, they are both current ministers in the government
:26:57. > :27:02.and I suppose that given their ages, relatively young on the political
:27:03. > :27:06.scene, there is an idea of the torch passing on to the new generation.
:27:07. > :27:18.Just to paint a picture of who they are, Leo Varadkar is a young, gay,
:27:19. > :27:22.half Indian politician and that demonstrates just how much the
:27:23. > :27:27.Republic of Ireland has changed. And there is much more focus on his
:27:28. > :27:32.political legacy. He was a former minister for health and why my
:27:33. > :27:36.portfolio is very often and poisoned chalice in the Republic, as with
:27:37. > :27:41.other jurisdictions... He managed to survive the relatively unscathed.
:27:42. > :27:48.And his opponent, Simon Coveney, he is a more traditional Fine Gael
:27:49. > :27:53.politician, he would have been the manager for agriculture and is
:27:54. > :27:58.Minister for Housing and he is a married man with three children and
:27:59. > :28:02.he is a different count of politician and is trying to put
:28:03. > :28:06.forward and reach back into the history of Fine Gael, remembering
:28:07. > :28:12.Garret FitzGerald, the former Taoiseach and bring that count of
:28:13. > :28:19.party. We were just looking at the DUP connections, both of them
:28:20. > :28:22.visited Northern Ireland, we saw Leo Varadkar in Derry with Jim Wells and
:28:23. > :28:29.Simon Coveney, the First Minister from the Republic to attend a DUP
:28:30. > :28:34.conference in 2012. How much do you think Ealing with Northern Ireland
:28:35. > :28:39.will be an issue for whoever takes over as Fine Gael leader and as
:28:40. > :28:41.Taoiseach? It is absolutely inevitable that Northern Ireland
:28:42. > :28:46.will play a very important role because of Brexit. It has been the
:28:47. > :28:50.biggest shock to hit the Republic and in some senses the Republic
:28:51. > :28:57.could almost be the Silent victim. Both candidates have prioritised
:28:58. > :29:00.Northern Ireland, Simon Coveney most recently, this morning saying he
:29:01. > :29:04.wanted to bridge various divides and he talked about Northern Ireland and
:29:05. > :29:08.the Republic of Ireland in that regard. We will keep a watchful eye
:29:09. > :29:11.on developments. Thank you. Let's hear what Deirdre Heenan
:29:12. > :29:24.and Newton Emerson make Before we talk about Arlene Foster.
:29:25. > :29:29.Your thoughts? How will history judge and? Like most politicians he
:29:30. > :29:32.will have a mixed legacy and on a personal level he carried his office
:29:33. > :29:37.very lightly, he was very affable and friendly, he stopped to speak to
:29:38. > :29:42.people, that was his manner and people liked him for that, there was
:29:43. > :29:44.a warm. He steered the Republic through a crippling recession and
:29:45. > :29:50.equal marriage will go down as one of his successes but the other side
:29:51. > :29:53.is he had a very difficult time over water charges and has had a very
:29:54. > :29:57.difficult time around corruption and the whiff of corruption. A mixed bag
:29:58. > :30:03.but he has been pragmatic and innovative and he will be remembered
:30:04. > :30:08.kindly. At one stage, 2007, he said that to be a successful leader of
:30:09. > :30:14.Fine Gael you need to have the reputation of Michael Collins and
:30:15. > :30:19.Mohammed Al EX mac he is reported as the Taoiseach that saved Ireland
:30:20. > :30:23.from bankruptcy. But he will be remembered more clearly for same-sex
:30:24. > :30:28.marriage, it is big social policy milestones that go down in history,
:30:29. > :30:31.not economics and trade and he wants his legacy to be the Brexit
:30:32. > :30:32.negotiations but that will fade quickly. Because the successor will
:30:33. > :30:41.do that. Let's talk about the Arlene Foster
:30:42. > :30:45.interview. First of all on the subject of the Brexit donation which
:30:46. > :30:50.she clearly wishes would go away and says is a reheated story, and her
:30:51. > :30:56.line tonight is, take my word for it, this donation was absolutely
:30:57. > :31:01.within the rules, end of story, move on. I think that interview raised
:31:02. > :31:05.more questions than it answered. People aren't going to be satisfied
:31:06. > :31:10.with it. She says that they have answered the questions, but she
:31:11. > :31:15.clearly hasn't. She's saying this is a Sinn Fein agenda, it isn't a Sinn
:31:16. > :31:19.Fein agenda. All of the political parties want to know the answer.
:31:20. > :31:26.It's clear the money was funnelled to the DUP because of the particular
:31:27. > :31:31.rules in Northern Ireland around the disclosure of donors. I think the
:31:32. > :31:36.key point to come through in the interview is about judgment. Why
:31:37. > :31:40.would you do this, why would you say we didn't know, we don't need to
:31:41. > :31:45.know? Actually you do need to know who's giving you money. She was very
:31:46. > :31:51.clear that the Electoral Commission is happy with the donation, and the
:31:52. > :31:55.commission confirmed to us today that it is currently not
:31:56. > :31:58.investigating that donation. I understand that the commission
:31:59. > :32:02.sometimes struggles with its workload and while it saying it
:32:03. > :32:06.isn't currently investigating that it doesn't mean it might not still
:32:07. > :32:11.have issues to look at. It's also made clear... All we know is that it
:32:12. > :32:15.isn't currently looking at the donation. It also said its
:32:16. > :32:19.restricted in what it can say. There's very little we can say about
:32:20. > :32:23.this while there is donors secrecy in place. This is held in place by
:32:24. > :32:28.the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Office... Arlene
:32:29. > :32:32.Foster made the point that she doesn't have to give any further
:32:33. > :32:36.information and has in fact given more information than currently
:32:37. > :32:40.required. You have to separate that out from the fact that the party
:32:41. > :32:43.needs to know the information, they need to report it to the Electoral
:32:44. > :32:49.Commission and it has to police said. She says that has been done.
:32:50. > :32:53.It's not true to say she's gone further than she needs to. There are
:32:54. > :32:57.questions that need to be answered. It was on this programme she said, I
:32:58. > :33:02.don't know where the money came from, I don't know how much money
:33:03. > :33:07.there is. You have to know the answer to those questions. The
:33:08. > :33:10.commission says it is happy that the issue isn't being investigated
:33:11. > :33:17.currently, let's see how that develops in the future. On the issue
:33:18. > :33:22.of judgment again, we raised her comments about Michelle O'Neill,
:33:23. > :33:25.asked to describe her in a word association game and she said
:33:26. > :33:29.blonde. She avoided that initially and then was encouraged to make the
:33:30. > :33:34.statement that she thought might be construed as sex it. That goes back
:33:35. > :33:40.to judgment. The reporter says, I'm going to ask you this question, she
:33:41. > :33:45.said I don't want to answer. Then she said, well, OK, and she reversed
:33:46. > :33:49.back into the hole and she answered the question. That comes back to
:33:50. > :33:56.political judgment. She said it was a compliment. It's clearly
:33:57. > :34:00.dismissive. You don't play word games with journalists, you don't
:34:01. > :34:04.behave in that way. She's moved a little on the Irish language but is
:34:05. > :34:07.basically showing arrogance and an inability to learn.
:34:08. > :34:10.That's it from The View for this week.
:34:11. > :34:13.Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35pm here on BBC One when I'll
:34:14. > :34:18.be talking to the Ulster Unionist leader, Robin Swann.
:34:19. > :34:24.The first leaders debate to play some ITV tonight and as we know it's
:34:25. > :34:33.all about name recognition. Banks were watching. Do you think they are
:34:34. > :34:42.going to stay there? Of course not. 6000 jobs in Wales you were willing
:34:43. > :34:46.to lose. APPLAUSE Social care has often been the poor
:34:47. > :34:56.relation to the NHS. I think Natalie is absolutely right... I'm not
:34:57. > :34:59.Natalie, I'm Leanne. Women's. I'm sorry about that.
:35:00. > :35:04.this Blame Game finger-pointing is catching.
:35:05. > :35:07.The fabulous Stephen K Amos joins Neil, Colin,