0:00:04 > 0:00:06Will the Secretary of State's "glide path" to greater
0:00:06 > 0:00:08Westminster intervention end with a smooth landing?
0:00:08 > 0:00:12Or is the political turbulence such that we'd better get used
0:00:12 > 0:00:14to thinking about devolution in the past tense?
0:00:14 > 0:00:24Welcome to The View.
0:00:38 > 0:00:44Tonight...
0:00:44 > 0:00:50It is not the glide path and James Brokenshire says he has on.We are
0:00:50 > 0:00:55laws on autopilot, just like Northern Ireland has been and, some
0:00:55 > 0:00:56would say, for the past few months.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58Gareth Gordon gets his wings in a flight simulator
0:00:58 > 0:01:01but what will be the reality if another devolution deadline
0:01:01 > 0:01:02has a crash landing?
0:01:02 > 0:01:05We've doubled up our commentary team tonight to take on that question.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07And because Brexit's never far away from these discussions,
0:01:07 > 0:01:10we'll get the view of the DUP's Ian Paisley and Fianna
0:01:10 > 0:01:17Fail's foreign affairs spokesman Darragh O'Bryan.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20He won't use the words "direct" and "rule" consecutively
0:01:20 > 0:01:22in the same sentence.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Instead, as he contemplates how, and when, to move to the next phase
0:01:25 > 0:01:28of the devolution crisis at Stormont, James Brokenshire has
0:01:28 > 0:01:33come up with a new formula for telling us the end is nigh.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36He says we're on a "glide path to greater Westminster involvement".
0:01:36 > 0:01:38The consensus is that that will come early next week
0:01:38 > 0:01:42when Mr Brokenshire begins the process of setting a budget.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45Gareth Gordon has beaten him to the flight controls to see
0:01:45 > 0:01:52what the future might look like.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57If things don't change, we risk being on a glide path to greater and
0:01:57 > 0:02:08greater UK Government intervention. Ultimately, on a glide path that I
0:02:08 > 0:02:14have indicated, without an agreement, we are on a glide path in
0:02:14 > 0:02:19Northern Ireland to greater and greater UK Government intervention.
0:02:19 > 0:02:27So let's see how easy that flying business errors. -- in this flying
0:02:27 > 0:02:32business is.
0:02:40 > 0:02:45This is as on the glide path. Not the kind that James Brokenshire says
0:02:45 > 0:02:52that he is on, this is an error bars simulator. We are on autopilot,
0:02:52 > 0:02:55which is on the like Northern Ireland, some people would say, has
0:02:55 > 0:03:00been on for the past seven months. We go to try and bring this thing
0:03:00 > 0:03:11down safely at the International Airport.
0:03:16 > 0:03:21Back on terra firma, this is the community hub. It is on the site of
0:03:21 > 0:03:24a former security based in north Belfast. A symbol of what Northern
0:03:24 > 0:03:28Ireland could look like almost 20 years after the Belfast agreement.
0:03:28 > 0:03:35One part of the building, young people out of boxing. Next door new
0:03:35 > 0:03:39research into the error APPLAUSE Many peace walls is discussed.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42These are trying times 40 minute he's looking to store marked as an
0:03:42 > 0:03:48example of how people can get along. If you have direct rule, that is not
0:03:48 > 0:03:52necessarily good to set out a positive message to people in these
0:03:52 > 0:03:55communities, because it be feel that politicians cannot work together,
0:03:55 > 0:03:59how are we supposed to try and get people on the ground to work
0:03:59 > 0:04:03together?When peace was established in this part of this today, there
0:04:03 > 0:04:11was no Assembly in storm to 2007, regardless of what happens, James
0:04:11 > 0:04:15Brokenshire needs to make sure that resources are in the amenities and
0:04:15 > 0:04:20that is what yet include any budget. On the Stormont glide path, who else
0:04:20 > 0:04:26is waiting for schools, for a start. Politics is the art of the possible.
0:04:26 > 0:04:32The result is a way forward. To not find a way forward is simply a lack
0:04:32 > 0:04:36of imagination. Are you telling me James Brokenshire has a lack of
0:04:36 > 0:04:40imagination? There was always a solution. There has been solutions
0:04:40 > 0:04:43in March was times in Northern Ireland, so I think there is a
0:04:43 > 0:04:46solution. At the beginning he impressed me because he was saying
0:04:46 > 0:04:52the right things, but at the minute I don't think he is interested, I
0:04:52 > 0:04:58think the issues are so huge in the UK, particularly with Brexit being a
0:04:58 > 0:05:03bit on their agenda, but I don't think Northern Ireland particularly
0:05:03 > 0:05:09is a vote winner for him.Then it was the health service.The body at
0:05:09 > 0:05:12every step down, they were talking about and outcomes -based
0:05:12 > 0:05:16Government, and I think that part of it is as important as it has ever
0:05:16 > 0:05:20been. We need outcomes, and every cannot deliver that in Northern
0:05:20 > 0:05:22Ireland, which would be my preference, we need it has ever
0:05:22 > 0:05:25been. We need outcomes, and every cannot deliver that in Northern
0:05:25 > 0:05:26Ireland, which would be my preference, we get delivered
0:05:26 > 0:05:33somehow. I some other route.Direct rule?If that is what has to be.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36Nothing hates uncertainty like business.I came back 20 years ago
0:05:36 > 0:05:41after being away ten years working in the UK, and also in Australia and
0:05:41 > 0:05:47New Zealand. I came back to what was a very positive kind of change for
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Northern Ireland, so it is this trading and I would hate to think we
0:05:50 > 0:05:54would go into next year, 2018, 20 years down the line with direct rule
0:05:54 > 0:06:02again. It is ten years as we have had direct rule, and again that was
0:06:02 > 0:06:04under a Labour Party. What would that look like under the
0:06:04 > 0:06:09Conservatives? Rose unless there is a deal, it looks like fasting your
0:06:09 > 0:06:14seat belts time is not far away. If you follow my glide path analogy,
0:06:14 > 0:06:20setting a budget is a significant step along that glide path. In doing
0:06:20 > 0:06:26that, I would argue that the landing gear starts to come down on the
0:06:26 > 0:06:31likes of the -- lights of the runway which started become clear in the
0:06:31 > 0:06:34hinterland ahead.Unless of course the landing looks something like
0:06:34 > 0:06:43this.
0:06:43 > 0:06:44Gareth Gordon at Alphatech in Newtownards.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47With me now to imagine where we might be heading
0:06:47 > 0:06:49are our regular commentators Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan
0:06:49 > 0:06:51who've been joined tonight by the columnist Brian Feeney
0:06:51 > 0:06:58and the lawyer Trevor Ringland, who campaigns for reconciliation.
0:06:58 > 0:06:58Thanks for joining us.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Gerry Adams has said tonight that Sinn Fein wants a deal to restore
0:07:01 > 0:07:03devolution at Stormont?
0:07:03 > 0:07:08Do you think he'll be relaxed, though, if that doesn't happen?
0:07:08 > 0:07:16I don't think he will be relaxed, Sinn Fein certainly do what a deal.
0:07:16 > 0:07:21But one of the things that we need to consider is they are part of a
0:07:21 > 0:07:25national all Ireland party. There is enormous rivalry between the parties
0:07:25 > 0:07:29in the Republic. One of the things Adams was saying in his speech
0:07:29 > 0:07:36tonight was appealing to... Taoiseach to get involved, and not
0:07:36 > 0:07:41to be competing in southern politics with Fianna Fail. Adams and Sinn
0:07:41 > 0:07:45Fein would like a deal. It would obviously be won on their terms.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48You've been writing for months, though, that the Sinn Fein
0:07:48 > 0:07:54grassroots is falling out of love with sharing power with the DUP.
0:07:54 > 0:08:00They fell out of love. The crucial meeting was on the 7th of January
0:08:00 > 0:08:05this year, there was a meeting in west Belfast where all the senior
0:08:05 > 0:08:09figures in the republican movement where present. They were all
0:08:09 > 0:08:13reporting what had happened over Christmas, the complaints they had
0:08:13 > 0:08:17gotten from supporters, and the recurrent theme was, what are you
0:08:17 > 0:08:23doing up there as storm at? They had got nothing in ten years. Finally,
0:08:23 > 0:08:27at a private meeting, after the press excluded, one of the people
0:08:27 > 0:08:30shouted up, and bring the institutions down now legs and there
0:08:30 > 0:08:38was a huge cheer. The strong feeling was that being a bad storm and had
0:08:38 > 0:08:41met years of frustration, because the DUP had blocked all change and
0:08:41 > 0:08:50had reneged on a series of promises that they had given in 2006.Read is
0:08:50 > 0:08:55that Levi's?In a situation where I think people are disillusioned with
0:08:55 > 0:09:00the Government we had even before the 7th of January last year. They
0:09:00 > 0:09:06have become even more disillusioned with the opportunity for Government
0:09:06 > 0:09:11we might have in the future. It put a challenge out of the politicians
0:09:11 > 0:09:15to actually try and get a Government re-established and if they do
0:09:15 > 0:09:19re-establish it, it is axing one that delivers for all the people,
0:09:19 > 0:09:23and it is their sense of the politicians acting in their own
0:09:23 > 0:09:26partyed self-interest rather than looking at the wider interests of
0:09:26 > 0:09:30the people, changing that sense of what we do a sort of community basis
0:09:30 > 0:09:34to one of separate amenities to one of a weird that includes all
0:09:34 > 0:09:41committees. It would be a travesty if after we had been through as a
0:09:41 > 0:09:45society that one side would turn their back on essentially
0:09:45 > 0:09:50power-sharing. And that we are driven by the politics that keeps
0:09:50 > 0:09:54the club in west Belfast happy. We all have to give quite a bit and we
0:09:54 > 0:09:59should not waste menace goodwill. It has been given to our politics to
0:09:59 > 0:10:03move this forward.Others clearly think it has collapsed. It is a
0:10:03 > 0:10:06shame that that has happened. Politicians are not doing what they
0:10:06 > 0:10:12were elected to do. The reality is that Sinn Fein and the DUP a
0:10:12 > 0:10:14thumping -- it thumping great votes twice this year and are doing what
0:10:14 > 0:10:21the people who voted for them to do. To sum up, ever to be small number
0:10:21 > 0:10:25of people are involved in a long wall, and the vast majority are
0:10:25 > 0:10:30involved in a long piece. There is a polarised politics for a people who
0:10:30 > 0:10:34are not polarised and are actually coming together out on the streets,
0:10:34 > 0:10:37and the challenge of the future is the people are going people around
0:10:37 > 0:10:43the politics or the politicians go to the polarised the people. We have
0:10:43 > 0:10:49arrived at this position by political manipulation of the
0:10:49 > 0:10:53designation of first ministers. It created this, if you do not vote for
0:10:53 > 0:10:56us, you will get them, which created a battle between the two large
0:10:56 > 0:11:02parties. This has been orchestrated with the help of the Government, and
0:11:02 > 0:11:07we are in a scenario where as on the original agreement, departed the not
0:11:07 > 0:11:10delivering, they would be kicked out on a large party would become the
0:11:10 > 0:11:16small party in the designations, to a situation now where we do not have
0:11:16 > 0:11:19that same democratic ability to kick those parties out.You are shaking
0:11:19 > 0:11:30your head.It flies in the face of the facts. The people are polarised.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34Who do you think those for the parties? As Mark said, there are two
0:11:34 > 0:11:38elections this year, the second one more voters came out to reinforce
0:11:38 > 0:11:42what they had done in the Assembly elections. Sinn Fein got a higher
0:11:42 > 0:11:46percentage share of the vote in the June election than they got in the
0:11:46 > 0:11:53March election.RB now getting what we voted for? Are we as voters and
0:11:53 > 0:12:01citizens being let down by our politicians?Revolution hair has
0:12:01 > 0:12:05never been plain sailing, and I think we should recognise that. --
0:12:05 > 0:12:09devolution. We have stumbled from one crisis to another, Luke Garrett
0:12:09 > 0:12:14head lies about the best, we have never had a stable Government, a
0:12:14 > 0:12:17Government that is looking at the bread-and-butter policies of health
0:12:17 > 0:12:21and education. Your package was very interesting because in the past four
0:12:21 > 0:12:26weeks we have had a notable increase in stories about health waiting
0:12:26 > 0:12:34lists. People are concerned about the services and impact.They are
0:12:34 > 0:12:36not concerned enough to the politicians get back into the
0:12:36 > 0:12:40executive room. We know about these problems. But the pressure has not
0:12:40 > 0:12:43built up to the point where politicians feel they need to shift
0:12:43 > 0:12:48in their positions. Grigg I agree anyone sense, but today the older
0:12:48 > 0:12:51person's As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary,
0:12:51 > 0:12:54"no"., Grigg there was very little support from what is going on in
0:12:54 > 0:12:59Northern Ireland that the minute. Due to concerns about cuts to health
0:12:59 > 0:13:04care. Putting whereon social care there is huge frustration on the
0:13:04 > 0:13:07ground, it may be difficult to find a voice for that and it falls on
0:13:07 > 0:13:14deaf ears which is also very important.Memories here are very
0:13:14 > 0:13:20short. Any March election, the biggest game by far was by Alliance,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24presumed to be mostly from knobbly nonvoting unionists. If you remember
0:13:24 > 0:13:27back to that election, it was all about RHI and it was a groundswell
0:13:27 > 0:13:32of public opinion and vote against what was seen as the fault of the
0:13:32 > 0:13:36scheme. It is only when they came within a whisker of each other in
0:13:36 > 0:13:40the election that unionist became spooked back into the mainstream,
0:13:40 > 0:13:44and that is what has happened with the Sinn Fein throwing the dice as
0:13:44 > 0:13:49well. Both those parties now need to roll back from that other they have
0:13:49 > 0:13:53a base that they have wound up I need to wind down. But they are
0:13:53 > 0:14:00clearly trying to do a deal.When? Glove 2-party contest sees coming up
0:14:00 > 0:14:05to November, they have to get to that.I think that takes the
0:14:05 > 0:14:09pressure off them. I was still a spending to do a deal after that.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13Storm and will probably come back in stages, for Sinn Fein they need
0:14:13 > 0:14:18proof that a deal will be implemented. They are saying again
0:14:18 > 0:14:21about implementation, that is what is key. They will have to agree and
0:14:21 > 0:14:27act and having drafted and passed, put the SNP are before they can get
0:14:27 > 0:14:32the executive back. That will pacify the concerns of their base.People
0:14:32 > 0:14:36are exasperated and that is why they are calling for direct rule and
0:14:36 > 0:14:40saying, let's is go to direct rule, but we have to remember, giving the
0:14:40 > 0:14:44expense of the past, direct rule is a temporary operation.We don't know
0:14:44 > 0:14:49what kind it will be.We will never get transformation under direct
0:14:49 > 0:14:52rule. There will come from Staffordshire and say, let's review
0:14:52 > 0:14:59the national health service. -- no one will come. What we as leaders
0:14:59 > 0:15:04and what is a sticking plaster solution. If we go to the local
0:15:04 > 0:15:08Assembly, we wanted to deliver and be what some clarification on what
0:15:08 > 0:15:13it can deliver.No they don't. People know what the issues are and
0:15:13 > 0:15:17they are at the present moment a culture war. Until that is resolved
0:15:17 > 0:15:21between Sinn Fein and the DUP, there will not be a return to the
0:15:21 > 0:15:21executive.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37They will need dates and implementation. Once they have that
0:15:37 > 0:15:41they will be prepared to go back. Those other issues. The fact
0:15:41 > 0:15:42they will be prepared to go back. Those other issues. The fact is the
0:15:42 > 0:15:47waiting lists for the NHS did start in March. That has been a problem
0:15:47 > 0:15:52for years, the same with education. The issues that have to be resolved
0:15:52 > 0:15:55are between the representatives of the two communities. It is just the
0:15:55 > 0:16:02same...They do not represent me and they do not represent an increasing
0:16:02 > 0:16:06amount of people in the community. There is the political world and the
0:16:06 > 0:16:09rest of the world. We live in a beautiful place, the people are
0:16:09 > 0:16:21great. Last summer, we had the kids from across the interface is playing
0:16:21 > 0:16:27together in sport. North, South, East and West Belfast coming
0:16:27 > 0:16:30together. Their parents supporting them. We need constructive
0:16:30 > 0:16:36leadership coming from the political world.Their steel piano Ulster
0:16:36 > 0:16:43Unionist Party election, people said no thanks, we will vote for Sinn
0:16:43 > 0:16:48Fein and the DUP.A failure of the middle ground to create a coming
0:16:48 > 0:16:54together which creates an option. They failed in that and they need to
0:16:54 > 0:17:01recognise that but they were also undermined by the government. I can
0:17:01 > 0:17:04assure you, the day the prisoners were released without
0:17:04 > 0:17:09decommissioning was when things were undermined.You cannot put the clock
0:17:09 > 0:17:15back.We have to deal with where we are now and our society is better
0:17:15 > 0:17:19than it was in the past and we have to instead of talking about problems
0:17:19 > 0:17:26get solutions.But who will be running things?When we moved to
0:17:26 > 0:17:33joint first ministers. There are certain things you could do which
0:17:33 > 0:17:37make some fundamental changes and then once you do that then have an
0:17:37 > 0:17:44election, give it back to the people and do it democratically. As things
0:17:44 > 0:17:49are it is undemocratic.I wonder if people have an appetite for yet
0:17:49 > 0:17:53another election. We will come back and talk later in the programme.
0:17:53 > 0:17:54We'll hear more from you later.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57But, of course, Brexit is the other big story of the week.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00Writing in the Belfast Telegraph yesterday, the DUP MP Ian Paisley
0:18:00 > 0:18:02added his voice to those urging the Republic of Ireland to consider
0:18:02 > 0:18:08exiting the EU along with the UK.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10He joins me from London and in our Dublin studio
0:18:10 > 0:18:14is the Fianna Fail spokesman on Foreign Affairs, Darragh O'Bryan.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17Ian Paisley, as the negotiations stutter on, the prospect of a hard
0:18:17 > 0:18:19Brexit seems to be gaining momentum.
0:18:19 > 0:18:26Are you relaxed at that possibility?
0:18:26 > 0:18:31You can characterise it as hard, soft or whatever. The fact of the
0:18:31 > 0:18:34matter the United Kingdom of great Britain and Northern Ireland are
0:18:34 > 0:18:39leaving the EU. What is in my interests and interests of the
0:18:39 > 0:18:42people of Northern Ireland and the UK is that we get the best deal
0:18:42 > 0:18:48possible.Your party... If it is hard Brexit on the table, will you
0:18:48 > 0:18:54vote for?The vote was cast over a year ago. The bottom line is we are
0:18:54 > 0:19:01leaving the EU and we want to make sure we get the best deal for the UK
0:19:01 > 0:19:04and Northern Ireland and also make sure that our neighbour to the
0:19:04 > 0:19:07south, the Republic of Ireland, is well served. We don't want to see
0:19:07 > 0:19:20them punished but it would be beneficial for all of us, given so
0:19:20 > 0:19:29much of the Republic of Ireland traders reliant on non-EU 26 nation,
0:19:29 > 0:19:33they could take their option we are doing, leaving the EU, they don't
0:19:33 > 0:19:38want to do that clearly, and the other option is that the could and
0:19:38 > 0:19:40should seek is that they have a special relationship with the EU,
0:19:40 > 0:19:45and become the linchpin in the relationship between the 226 and the
0:19:45 > 0:19:53UK whenever we leave. -- the EU 26. That would facilitate the Republic
0:19:53 > 0:19:56of Island not only staying where they are in relation to the trade
0:19:56 > 0:20:05with the UK but also... A report came out today from the EU which
0:20:05 > 0:20:08said clearly that the Republic of Ireland don't have that type of
0:20:08 > 0:20:13religion shipped and they will lose 9% of their trading based, around
0:20:13 > 0:20:203.4% of their GDP. That is huge. Instead of shouting at the border
0:20:20 > 0:20:23and sing the border is the problem, let's get on with actually making
0:20:23 > 0:20:28sure that they benefit from us leaving the EU also.You have set
0:20:28 > 0:20:32out yourself very well and also in the Belfast Telegraph yesterday.
0:20:32 > 0:20:41Let's hear from Fianna Fail. Does that appeal to you?No. We are not
0:20:41 > 0:20:44leaving the EU. We know there is no question of that happening. 86% of
0:20:44 > 0:20:52our trade is done with the EU 27 and we are on that side of the table. We
0:20:52 > 0:20:56want to see a good arrangement and a deal done between the EU and the UK
0:20:56 > 0:21:02that is beneficial to both but the reality is that the people of
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Northern Ireland voted to remain, so Northern Ireland is being dragged
0:21:05 > 0:21:11out of EU by the rest of Britain and that in itself is against the will
0:21:11 > 0:21:16of most of the people of Northern Ireland. Our future and the Republic
0:21:16 > 0:21:21of Ireland's future is with the European Union and it has been a
0:21:21 > 0:21:24positive thing for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as well
0:21:24 > 0:21:32and I think any idea of us leaving the European Union is a nonstarter.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35Any talk of us being a linchpin between a new relationship between
0:21:35 > 0:21:41the EU and the UK, I don't see that either. We have a special
0:21:41 > 0:21:55relationship with the North which is Carter fastened by the Good Friday
0:21:55 > 0:22:00Agreement. Our future is with Europe. We need to see the
0:22:00 > 0:22:03Westminster government getting their act together and figuring out what
0:22:03 > 0:22:07they actually want. We are coming to a crucial phase of negotiations now
0:22:07 > 0:22:11to see whether the EU will agree with the UK that we can go to the
0:22:11 > 0:22:17next phase of future relations and this brave new world that Ian
0:22:17 > 0:22:22Paisley talks about, let's look at trade, how will Britain replace some
0:22:22 > 0:22:28of the trade lost by leaving the EU? I hope cooler heads will prevail. I
0:22:28 > 0:22:31hope the people can see that even the customs union is an option for
0:22:31 > 0:22:37Britain to remain within that.I think the people who want to leave,
0:22:37 > 0:22:41and Ian Paisley is one of them, have made it clear that is not an option.
0:22:41 > 0:22:50The point has been made that you have leverage with the British
0:22:50 > 0:22:56government in the DUP. Can you switch here is that all of the
0:22:56 > 0:22:58traffic from negotiation and compromise isn't going to be coming
0:22:58 > 0:23:08from his side of the border?I think this is important from the point of
0:23:08 > 0:23:14view of trading with UK companies... It is important that we get a good
0:23:14 > 0:23:21relation.A much smaller scale than you mentioned in the Belfast
0:23:21 > 0:23:25Telegraph. You said 60%, it is nothing like that.Let me make this
0:23:25 > 0:23:35point first. Michel Barnier is the plenipotentiary for the remaining EU
0:23:35 > 0:23:4126. He has to make sure that he gets a very good deal and at least leaves
0:23:41 > 0:23:44the Republic of Ireland in the same standing and status that they
0:23:44 > 0:23:48currently have. Under the arrangements at the present time
0:23:48 > 0:23:53this has not come to be the case and Michel Barnier whether he feels the
0:23:53 > 0:24:01UK or not he will end up failing the Republic of Ireland.60% of the
0:24:01 > 0:24:06Republic's goods and services traded with the UK, you said. John
0:24:06 > 0:24:12Fitzgerald, one of Ireland's must respected economists said that as
0:24:12 > 0:24:19fake news. 15% in 2016 of the Republic's exports went to the UK
0:24:19 > 0:24:32and 11% came from the UK, imports. The fact is that 75% of the Republic
0:24:32 > 0:24:40of Ireland's goods and services are traded with countries out with EU
0:24:40 > 0:24:4726, mainly the United States and the United Kingdom.That is not at all
0:24:47 > 0:24:59in line with what was said a minute ago.This is the evidence. The
0:24:59 > 0:25:03Republic sends 61% by virtue of its goods and exports and 66% of its
0:25:03 > 0:25:09services exports to countries outside...Who said it?This
0:25:09 > 0:25:18evidence has been presented... Hubei? You're quoting something and
0:25:18 > 0:25:32not sourcing it.Trinity University. The British market is important for
0:25:32 > 0:25:40Ireland. The Irish market is important for Britain. Britain is a
0:25:40 > 0:25:54significant market. No one disputes the fact it is important. But it is
0:25:54 > 0:25:59not important enough for the Republic to follow the UK leaving
0:25:59 > 0:26:10the EU.I understand this. Further Republic of Ireland, being in the EU
0:26:10 > 0:26:15has been a blessing but from 2014 you have become a net contributor to
0:26:15 > 0:26:22the EU. That means that all of the bonanza days are over. That is why
0:26:22 > 0:26:27you need to adjust your position. You are continually misrepresenting
0:26:27 > 0:26:31the facts. The reality is the European Union is not just an
0:26:31 > 0:26:40economic union as well. It is what it has managed to do after two
0:26:40 > 0:26:43Savage Robert Waters, kept peace in our continent. It has underwritten
0:26:43 > 0:26:53the peace in our island as well. Irishman and Irish women and British
0:26:53 > 0:27:01men and British women have done that.The problem is this. Ian's
0:27:01 > 0:27:04facts and figures are wrong. Nobody is suggesting we want a bad deal for
0:27:04 > 0:27:12anyone. I have spoken with Michel Barnier and others and Ireland is
0:27:12 > 0:27:15central to this. The government in the Republic of Ireland and the
0:27:15 > 0:27:18parliament and the Republic of Ireland is representing the people's
0:27:18 > 0:27:23views, unlike Ian Paisley and his colleagues in the Assembly where
0:27:23 > 0:27:29there is no executive. The voice of the Irish people is not being heard.
0:27:29 > 0:27:37Anita Askey about the talks process. One sentence each. Your colleague
0:27:37 > 0:27:41some treated that it looks like Sinn Fein has opted for direct rule thus
0:27:41 > 0:27:45depriving the people of Northern Ireland devolved government.I
0:27:45 > 0:27:54listen to the commentary by your commentators and I despair. Everyone
0:27:54 > 0:27:57wants to see Northern Ireland men and women running the affairs of
0:27:57 > 0:28:01Northern Ireland but it does appear that Sinn Fein are not up to doing a
0:28:01 > 0:28:05deal that is realistic with the DUP. That is not what Gerry Adams said
0:28:05 > 0:28:12tonight. So no deal. You don't think a rabbit can be pulled out a bat in
0:28:12 > 0:28:21the next 48 or 72 hours.I don't even know if there is a hat.What
0:28:21 > 0:28:24should be the role of the Irish government in whatever comes next?
0:28:24 > 0:28:29If it happens it would be a crying shame and a disgrace because of Sinn
0:28:29 > 0:28:33Fein and the DUP have large mandates and they have a responsibility to
0:28:33 > 0:28:37the people in the north to do a deal and the people in the north,
0:28:37 > 0:28:45frankly... I lick on bewildered. If you are elected then you are there
0:28:45 > 0:28:51to govern and tried to pass laws and mandate country for the betterment
0:28:51 > 0:28:56of the people. They have abdicated that responsibility. Direct rule
0:28:56 > 0:29:00will not be a good thing for the North of Ireland. It is not
0:29:00 > 0:29:07something that Fianna Fail want to see and I hope that both parties
0:29:07 > 0:29:12will re-engage in a serious way to ensure the executive and assembly is
0:29:12 > 0:29:22re-established.
0:29:24 > 0:29:26Ian Paisley, just before I let you go, we know
0:29:26 > 0:29:28you referred yourself to the Parliamentary Commissioner
0:29:28 > 0:29:30for Standards in Westminster in connection with a claim that
0:29:30 > 0:29:33you and your family made two trips to Sri Lanka
0:29:33 > 0:29:34without properly declaring them.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37This is the first opportunity we've had to speak to you about the issue.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39Have you been interviewed by the Commissioner as yet?
0:29:39 > 0:29:43The inquiry is underway and that is all I will tell you and all I can
0:29:43 > 0:29:45say.You won't confirm whether you have spoken to the omission?It is
0:29:45 > 0:29:46in their hands and I...
0:29:46 > 0:29:48Are you maintaining your position that these allegations
0:29:48 > 0:29:51are "devoid of fact or logic"?
0:29:51 > 0:29:54The issue is in front of the Commissioner and I will give them
0:29:54 > 0:30:00their space to do their job, not the BBC to do their job for them.
0:30:00 > 0:30:01Thanks to you both.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04Back to my studio guests.
0:30:04 > 0:30:11What do you make about the issue, the agreement to disagree on just
0:30:11 > 0:30:20about everything as far as Brexit is concerned?Years outside his party's
0:30:20 > 0:30:24leadership circle. He is having a bit of a wind-up. He has revealed
0:30:24 > 0:30:29what should be his party's policy on Brexit which is not that the
0:30:29 > 0:30:37Republic between the EU and the UK. The trade flows would be
0:30:37 > 0:30:40extraordinary and we could have enormous benefits, but he is not
0:30:40 > 0:30:44thinking in those terms. He is not thinking seriously about this at all
0:30:44 > 0:30:47but he is trying to keep the South off-balance. There was also little
0:30:47 > 0:30:53hint of menace, I think. Saying we can do a lot of damage in the UK to
0:30:53 > 0:30:57Ireland as well. He should note that is not a signal coming from anyone
0:30:57 > 0:31:06else in the UK at all.
0:31:06 > 0:31:10Toyou are source of his evidence and he said Trinity University. That
0:31:10 > 0:31:14is not a source. How can that be a source? Who publish this information
0:31:14 > 0:31:19and where was it published? Who verified it? It is important.
0:31:19 > 0:31:26Presumably we will find out.Anti-EU rhetoric was not challenge, not
0:31:26 > 0:31:30robustly, and lies became fact and fake news. We have to challenge the
0:31:30 > 0:31:34rhetoric. I think he is simply mischiefmaking, talk of the Republic
0:31:34 > 0:31:41of Ireland are leaving the view is nonsense. He knows that. The EU has
0:31:41 > 0:31:45been beneficial to the Republic of Ireland, much of the non-EU
0:31:45 > 0:31:50investment is because of unfettered access to markets so I think he was
0:31:50 > 0:31:54quite clearly dismissed and he is trying to make mischief.He speaks
0:31:54 > 0:31:59for a lot of people. That is the problem. The Belinda 's big fight a
0:31:59 > 0:32:05lot of people. Last Assembly election and last whispered that
0:32:05 > 0:32:08election.Ian Paisley does not speak for them. He is not part of the
0:32:08 > 0:32:14negotiations. Not between the Conservatives and the DUP. He is out
0:32:14 > 0:32:18of the leadership circle.He may be slightly out of step with the
0:32:18 > 0:32:22leadership, but the broad thrust of what he says I would have thought he
0:32:22 > 0:32:27is in line with that.There is no one else in the DUP saying we should
0:32:27 > 0:32:31leave Europe. -- the Republic of Ireland should leave Europe. It is
0:32:31 > 0:32:35not the kind of stuff Ian Paisley is coming out with. He looks through
0:32:35 > 0:32:40the wrong end of the telescope. Don't think he is the only person in
0:32:40 > 0:32:43a DUP to raise it. He is not the only one politically to have said
0:32:43 > 0:32:52it. Ray Bassett in the south also was made the case for it.We are
0:32:52 > 0:32:55trying to deal with a difficult situation, and I think there is an
0:32:55 > 0:33:03element of winding up, I think maybe we should look at a slightly
0:33:03 > 0:33:06different way, we're not leaving the U. We are going to change the
0:33:06 > 0:33:12relationship with the EU and there is £242 billion worth of trade
0:33:12 > 0:33:19between the UK and the EU. That is not be sniffed at and it has be
0:33:19 > 0:33:22carefully managed so it continues. I think also those of us who share
0:33:22 > 0:33:31there is Ireland...The British Government doesn't know how we're
0:33:31 > 0:33:35going to do it.I don't think anybody does. The other thing is
0:33:35 > 0:33:43that we have to make sure that we all do well, and we may have voted
0:33:43 > 0:33:49to Remain in the EU, but we did not vote to leave the United Kingdom. He
0:33:49 > 0:33:56should watch is language. Green a final word.Ian Paisleyed interest,
0:33:56 > 0:34:00or the question is, by and the Government said on 50 reports? By do
0:34:00 > 0:34:05they not publish the evidence and C what it says.We have covered a lot
0:34:05 > 0:34:08of ground, but I don't know if we have answered any of the questions.
0:34:08 > 0:34:09Thank you for your company.
0:34:09 > 0:34:11That's it from The View for this week.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC One.
0:34:14 > 0:34:16For now, though, today's real paw-litical battle was on the green
0:34:16 > 0:34:18lawn outside the Houses of Parliament and not
0:34:18 > 0:34:21the green benches inside, in a bid to be crowned top
0:34:21 > 0:34:28dog at Westminster.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32Com is no competition in deciding who The View's top dog is.
0:34:32 > 0:34:42Bye-bye.
0:35:06 > 0:35:14I feel like I have won the Miss world something. -- Miss world or
0:35:14 > 0:35:27something.Good girl, come and get the treat. Do not what a biscuit?