0:00:04 > 0:00:07A reckless departure from devolution, or the only way
0:00:07 > 0:00:13forward for a cash-strapped Northern Ireland?
0:00:13 > 0:00:16Either way it's full steam ahead for that long-awaited Budget Bill.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18So where does that leave the prospects of doing
0:00:18 > 0:00:19a deal at Stormont?
0:00:19 > 0:00:26Welcome to The View.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41Tonight, with the budget set to go through Westminster next week,
0:00:41 > 0:00:44is that effectively direct rule?
0:00:44 > 0:00:46The Government insists spending will simply follow
0:00:46 > 0:00:48Stormont priorities - but our local politicians remain
0:00:48 > 0:00:54spectators to the process.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57I'll be talking to the leader of the SDLP, Colum Eastwood,
0:00:57 > 0:00:58and the Labour MP, Kate Hoey.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Sinn Fein's policy on abortion has long been divisive
0:01:02 > 0:01:04within the party membership, but just how big an issue
0:01:04 > 0:01:07might it prove to be, one week ahead of the annual Ard
0:01:07 > 0:01:13Fheis?
0:01:13 > 0:01:17It is such an important issue. It will be a bumpy road over the next
0:01:17 > 0:01:19couple of months.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23And after Leo Varadkar wore a "shamrock poppy"
0:01:23 > 0:01:26in the Dail, I'll be talking to the Fine Gael Senator
0:01:26 > 0:01:29who gave him the lapel pin - and asking if it remains too loaded
0:01:29 > 0:01:30a symbol for many nationalists?
0:01:30 > 0:01:33And with their thoughts on it all - in a return fixture -
0:01:33 > 0:01:35Fionnuala O'Connor and Alex Kane are in Commentators' Corner.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Hello.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Just how how close are we to direct rule?
0:01:39 > 0:01:42The Secretary of State says we're on a glide path,
0:01:42 > 0:01:46for the chair of the NI select committee we're in the foothills,
0:01:46 > 0:01:48while the Irish government believes Monday's planned budget is a step
0:01:48 > 0:01:50towards the D word.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54Meanwhile tonight, figures seen by The View suggest that budget
0:01:54 > 0:01:57will include an increase in health spending, while a feared cash
0:01:57 > 0:02:00reduction in the education budget will not now go ahead.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02To discuss the implications of all of that I'm joined
0:02:02 > 0:02:05by the Labour MP Kate Hoey and from our Foyle studio
0:02:05 > 0:02:12by the SDLP leader, Colum Eastwood.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16Thank you for joining us. Colum Eastwood, you have said for some
0:02:16 > 0:02:22time that a Westminster budget would amount to de facto direct rule.Do
0:02:22 > 0:02:27you still think that? Yes, I was elected to utilise things like a
0:02:27 > 0:02:31Budget Bill and I am not able to do that. I am sitting here, I am not
0:02:31 > 0:02:36sitting in storm at dealing with that issue. It is unfortunate. What
0:02:36 > 0:02:40we have now is the British Government making decisions. What we
0:02:40 > 0:02:45also have is a budget that should have been produced last year by the
0:02:45 > 0:02:49Finance minister, it was not produced, inexplicably, we wanted to
0:02:49 > 0:02:54see it, we did not even get the draft of it. But it is clear from
0:02:54 > 0:02:57the British Secretary of State and from permanent secretaries across
0:02:57 > 0:03:03different departments that this will be the budget agreed between the DUP
0:03:03 > 0:03:07and Sinn Fein, but being delivered by James Brokenshire. I do not think
0:03:07 > 0:03:12anybody wanted to see that happen. We now have a situation where the
0:03:12 > 0:03:15British Government is making decisions in Northern Ireland once
0:03:15 > 0:03:19again stop but what other option was there because Northern Ireland 's
0:03:19 > 0:03:24plc was about to run out of money, talks of not allowed stalwarts to
0:03:24 > 0:03:27get up and running again.The Secretary of State would say this
0:03:27 > 0:03:32was the least worst option.That is right. He had very little choice.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36The two parties decided to go into a private room and negotiate a deal,
0:03:36 > 0:03:41they have not been able to do it. While Sinn Fein have talked about
0:03:41 > 0:03:48Brits out, now it seems to be a policy of Brits in. We saw it with
0:03:48 > 0:03:52wealthier, we are now saying it with everything else. They have failed
0:03:52 > 0:03:56emergency. When they had the responsibility. The on the economic
0:03:56 > 0:04:00responsibility that the ever took in Northern Ireland Assembly, the
0:04:00 > 0:04:04Finance Ministry, they failed to produce a budget. That is the most
0:04:04 > 0:04:08basic job of any Government. It is probably the only job of the Finance
0:04:08 > 0:04:12Minister. Now we are in a position where James Brokenshire has to do
0:04:12 > 0:04:16that job for them. This will be interesting if they come out next
0:04:16 > 0:04:19week and criticise this budget. Because this is their budget that
0:04:19 > 0:04:23they refuse to deliver. Worth pointing out that they asked both
0:04:23 > 0:04:28Sinn Fein and the DUP to join us tonight, and they did not want to. I
0:04:28 > 0:04:37am pleased however that Kate Hoey is here. Do you accept that James
0:04:37 > 0:04:41Brokenshire, he might not like this situation, but he has no alternative
0:04:41 > 0:04:45other than to table a budget at Westminster on Monday, and we will
0:04:45 > 0:04:49see where we go from there. Absolutely. This is the only switch
0:04:49 > 0:04:53on to what could be a very serious situation in terms of financing
0:04:53 > 0:04:57Northern Ireland. I am off quite often and I talk to people who know
0:04:57 > 0:05:00what is happening in the health service and how much it needs more
0:05:00 > 0:05:04money. We cannot disguise that is not a Government in Northern
0:05:04 > 0:05:10Ireland. The parties have not got together. We have to do this. It is
0:05:10 > 0:05:14said that this is going to be done by James Brokenshire, this will be
0:05:14 > 0:05:18done by the UK Parliament, in which the percentages of Northern Ireland
0:05:18 > 0:05:24said. There will be some debate and discussion and opportunities for
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Northern Ireland MPs.How significant role that debate be? I
0:05:27 > 0:05:32presume you will be in the House on Monday?I will. Is this a sideshow.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36The reality is there will not be any thoughts on it. There will be
0:05:36 > 0:05:39general Agreement because people will want to see that budget be put
0:05:39 > 0:05:44through, and put through very quickly. I think there will be a
0:05:44 > 0:05:49feeling amongst many MPs that the detail of the budget, and it will
0:05:49 > 0:05:54probably be very much as has been said, it will be based on what would
0:05:54 > 0:05:59have happened if there had been an Assembly running, but I do not think
0:05:59 > 0:06:04that is any alternative. The people of Northern Ireland actually need
0:06:04 > 0:06:07this because they want to get on with making things work. And it
0:06:07 > 0:06:11might send a message to some of the parties that obviously do not want
0:06:11 > 0:06:17to go into Government, that life goes on.Nigel Dodds, deputy leader
0:06:17 > 0:06:21of the DUP, and you know him through Westminster, he is the leader there,
0:06:21 > 0:06:25he called for direct rule by the surge to be put in place as soon as
0:06:25 > 0:06:29possible. He was very clear in an interview that he gave last Friday.
0:06:29 > 0:06:35Do you agree with that? People were getting frustrated and they would
0:06:35 > 0:06:39feel there is no point waiting around for another few weeks and
0:06:39 > 0:06:42getting no where, and the mood seems to be that there is not going to be
0:06:42 > 0:06:46an Agreement and therefore we might as well, it is important that the
0:06:46 > 0:06:50sessions are not taken by civil servants. Civil servants Tulip look
0:06:50 > 0:06:53as Sally want to take those decisions. I would say that we have
0:06:53 > 0:07:02had a long time now where it is very clear, in particular one party is
0:07:02 > 0:07:04setting too many preconditions, and therefore we should be getting on
0:07:04 > 0:07:09with getting extra ministers, finding a way that we can keep some
0:07:09 > 0:07:11involvement of members of the Assembly here involved in some way.
0:07:11 > 0:07:16I do not think they should completely lose all their money
0:07:16 > 0:07:20right away, because they do do some work on their own constituencies but
0:07:20 > 0:07:24we cannot go on any situation where no one is running the country in
0:07:24 > 0:07:27Northern Ireland. Northern out as part of the United Kingdom and
0:07:27 > 0:07:31therefore it is right and legitimate. If there was this
0:07:31 > 0:07:34problem in Wales there would be direct rule back again, whatever you
0:07:34 > 0:07:39call it. The budget is the beginning of that and it would be very likely
0:07:39 > 0:07:42that in a short time, unless something very strange happens in
0:07:42 > 0:07:47the next week or so, that you will have formal direct rule within the
0:07:47 > 0:07:51next month.How do you respond to that, Colum Eastwood? Is it all over
0:07:51 > 0:07:57at that stage, failure for the devolution project?I do not think
0:07:57 > 0:08:01that the Good Friday Agreement has failed. I think that DUP and Sinn
0:08:01 > 0:08:04Fein have failed the Good Friday Agreement and we are now any
0:08:04 > 0:08:07situation but it looks very likely that we will see even more direct
0:08:07 > 0:08:12rule. But it is important to point out to Kate Hoey that this is not
0:08:12 > 0:08:16Wales, it is different, that is an international Agreement that
0:08:16 > 0:08:19recognises the two traditions, that needs to be given proper
0:08:19 > 0:08:25recognition. If we cannot have the Good Friday Agreement we have to
0:08:25 > 0:08:30give it as much recognition as possible, that speed is a very
0:08:30 > 0:08:35strong Irish dimension. I know that should be tapped said that but I am
0:08:35 > 0:08:38saying it, it needs a strong Irish dimension to make sure that we are
0:08:38 > 0:08:45giving proper recognition.What does that mean, a very strong Irish
0:08:45 > 0:08:50tradition? Spell that out exactly. Ayew talking about joint authority?
0:08:50 > 0:08:55I have used those words already. If you get to the point where there is
0:08:55 > 0:08:58no prospect, and we are not there yet, no prospect of an Assembly
0:08:58 > 0:09:02being up and running in the way we would like, no prospect of ministers
0:09:02 > 0:09:08being elected from the Assembly, then we need to move to that place.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11There are options within the Good Friday Agreement that can be
0:09:11 > 0:09:14triggered, but we also need to understand that it is not possible
0:09:14 > 0:09:19to run this place the same way that Wales has been run. There are a
0:09:19 > 0:09:23number of international agreements that needs to be recognised. A piece
0:09:23 > 0:09:27closest that these to be recognised. Just because DUP and Sinn Fein want
0:09:27 > 0:09:32to hold the space to ransom the rest of us cannot lose out, I am not
0:09:32 > 0:09:35going to stand by and allow that to happen, the Irish Government has
0:09:35 > 0:09:39said they will not allow that to happen, Sinn Fein should see that,
0:09:39 > 0:09:43but they seem to what the big enemy of the Buddhist Government to come
0:09:43 > 0:09:52in and run this.I think it would be -- enemy of the British Government
0:09:52 > 0:10:05to come in and run this.Joint authority is just not on. What we
0:10:05 > 0:10:09have two C is a way that allows those Assembly members in Northern
0:10:09 > 0:10:14Ireland to have been elected to have some form of involvement in some way
0:10:14 > 0:10:19in a direct rule situation. It is clearly the two parties are not
0:10:19 > 0:10:24going to get this together. Even if they did, my fear is that within a
0:10:24 > 0:10:29few months' time, another crisis, another demand from Sinn Fein of
0:10:29 > 0:10:33what they want, and the next thing, we are back to square one. This
0:10:33 > 0:10:38time, if we do have direct rule it is important that we have some
0:10:38 > 0:10:43genuine thought into how we actually look at how Northern Ireland is
0:10:43 > 0:10:47governed, whether it can really work that man Stilley Coalition, admitted
0:10:47 > 0:10:51that is something that this opportunity with by recruitment give
0:10:51 > 0:10:54to have that discussion.The couple of things have been mentioned,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57voluntary Coalition is one, there are parties that do not like that,
0:10:57 > 0:11:03also the idea floated by the shadow Secretary of State, your colleague
0:11:03 > 0:11:09in the Labour Party, Owen Smith, topped about eight shadow Assembly
0:11:09 > 0:11:14to monitor decisions taken by direct rule ministers, does that appeal to
0:11:14 > 0:11:17you?That's consultative Assembly, that might just turn into an
0:11:17 > 0:11:22opposition to everything that was being done.It is a pale shadow of
0:11:22 > 0:11:27what we have had for the last ten years.It is very important that
0:11:27 > 0:11:29people living in Northern Ireland have people representing them in
0:11:29 > 0:11:33terms of the two-day things that most members of Parliament, most
0:11:33 > 0:11:37Assembly members take up. That is why we have got to have some way of
0:11:37 > 0:11:42keeping that going so they could do that job in their constituencies.
0:11:42 > 0:11:46Colum Eastwood, is a shadow Assembly, which was fought at as an
0:11:46 > 0:11:49idea I Owen Smith, something that you would be prepared to talk about,
0:11:49 > 0:11:55or is that off the radar?We are not at that stage. We want an actual
0:11:55 > 0:11:58Assembly with proper ministers elected from that Assembly,
0:11:58 > 0:12:04appointed from the semi, doing the job.You have had one since January.
0:12:04 > 0:12:11That is not our fact -- that is not our fault, more and more power
0:12:11 > 0:12:17placed in London, less and less and Northern Ireland. Nigel Dodds wants
0:12:17 > 0:12:21to see British listers as soon as possible, of course he does. He is
0:12:21 > 0:12:25in a very strong position. Given what this happened in the British
0:12:25 > 0:12:30Cabinet in the last week two he is in an even stronger position. He and
0:12:30 > 0:12:34Arlene Foster will be calling the shots and every single penny that is
0:12:34 > 0:12:38spent in Northern Ireland. People do not think that is alarming enough to
0:12:38 > 0:12:41get on with the job of doing a deal which is best for everybody then I
0:12:41 > 0:12:46do not understand what they are playing at. Nobodypos-macro to be
0:12:46 > 0:12:52protected either DUP and the British Government.I think that there is a
0:12:52 > 0:12:58very cynical remark. That will not go down well amongst the prounion
0:12:58 > 0:13:06community.Kate Hoey always supports the DUP position. We have a budget
0:13:06 > 0:13:10on Monday in the House of Commons, we assume it will make its way to
0:13:10 > 0:13:13the House of Lords on Tuesday, that deals with the immediate budgetary
0:13:13 > 0:13:19pressures. Can I ask, have you had any idea at all about further talks
0:13:19 > 0:13:24next week Gretchen mac I gather there is an SDLP delegation that met
0:13:24 > 0:13:30James Brokenshire.I do not think there is any new idea on the table.
0:13:30 > 0:13:38We have been frozen out of theThese have not been all-party talks or
0:13:38 > 0:13:45chaired properly and agreed on. We have two parties facilitated by one
0:13:45 > 0:13:47government talking to themselves in a room and we are no farther
0:13:47 > 0:13:52forward.We have been through that is why Northern Ireland isn't
0:13:52 > 0:13:56working properly.I want to repeat the call for progress that was made
0:13:56 > 0:14:01throughout those talks because Sinn Fein keep telling everybody as the
0:14:01 > 0:14:09DUP to that nobody has told us how far they have come. Both parties
0:14:09 > 0:14:11know what they want, but apparently they have stretched themselves but
0:14:11 > 0:14:17how far is that? This is all on the basis on what has been done in those
0:14:17 > 0:14:23negotiations, and they have failed in being here tonight to stand by a
0:14:23 > 0:14:28budget they agreed upon in a year ago.They didn't take the
0:14:28 > 0:14:36opportunity to join us tonight but thank you for joining us both. Kate,
0:14:36 > 0:14:39you have joined us from the football tonight, not the result you are
0:14:39 > 0:14:45hoping for.It was a handball penalty decision which I think all
0:14:45 > 0:14:49the spectators and all the commentators said was not right but
0:14:49 > 0:14:56that is football. We can come back in Basel, we have done it before and
0:14:56 > 0:14:59the fans were wonderful, and I think Northern Ireland as a whole should
0:14:59 > 0:15:03be very proud of their team whatever happens in the match on the weekend
0:15:03 > 0:15:07because it has just been brilliant but they were written off at the
0:15:07 > 0:15:10beginning when the draw came and they have done extremely well.And
0:15:10 > 0:15:18good luck to the public in Denmark. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm like an
0:15:18 > 0:15:20Arsenal supporter supporting it is an unseen.Sometimes these things
0:15:20 > 0:15:22had to be done!
0:15:22 > 0:15:24Thank you both.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27A Sinn Fein TD who lost the whip over his stance on abortion has
0:15:27 > 0:15:29called on the party to allow elected members to vote
0:15:29 > 0:15:30with their conscience.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33Peadar Toibin also warned the party faces a 'bumpy road' in dealing
0:15:33 > 0:15:35with the issue in the coming months.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38He was speaking in the wake of Gerry Adams' disclosure this week
0:15:38 > 0:15:41that his personal view is that it should be a woman's right to choose
0:15:41 > 0:15:43whether or not to have an abortion.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46It's believed to be the first time the Sinn Fein President has
0:15:46 > 0:15:47made his own view known publicly.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50So what impact could this have on the abortion debate
0:15:50 > 0:15:52within the party ahead of next weekend's Ard Fheis?
0:15:52 > 0:15:53Our political correspondent, Enda McClafferty,
0:15:53 > 0:16:02has been investigating.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06CHANTING
0:16:06 > 0:16:11It polarises and mobilises in a way that no other issue can and that is
0:16:11 > 0:16:13why the rights Han Rongze of abortion are such a political
0:16:13 > 0:16:21minefield. Parties choose their positions and words carefully but
0:16:21 > 0:16:24this week Gerry Adams went a step further revealing his personal
0:16:24 > 0:16:31stance.The Sinn Fein position is one of allowing safe access to
0:16:31 > 0:16:40abortion for women in certain cases, but personally I am opposed to
0:16:40 > 0:16:42abortion except in those circumstances but I don't think that
0:16:42 > 0:16:47is up to me to make that choice, it is the woman's rights to make that
0:16:47 > 0:16:51choice.Gerry Adams's decision to go public now on his pro-choice stance
0:16:51 > 0:16:54raises lots of interesting questions for republicans. For instance, is
0:16:54 > 0:16:59this a party leader laying the foundation for some future change in
0:16:59 > 0:17:04policy? Or is this a party leader simply laying his cards on the table
0:17:04 > 0:17:10before announcing his successor?It is hard to know what his strategy
0:17:10 > 0:17:13is. Obviously he is very strategic in the way he works within the
0:17:13 > 0:17:19party.This is Daisy Muse, a Sinn Fein member who for 34 years has
0:17:19 > 0:17:24been pushing the pro-choice case on the Ard Fheis platform and will do
0:17:24 > 0:17:30so again next weekend.I am totally surprised, I have to use a gun at
0:17:30 > 0:17:38what he has said and is delighted at what he said, as I said. -- I
0:17:38 > 0:17:41support the women making that choice, and the party is very close
0:17:41 > 0:17:49to supporting choice.Not everybody sees it like that. This place is
0:17:49 > 0:17:52proud of their republicanism and lately, for some, their pro life
0:17:52 > 0:18:04stance. And was once the Sinn Fein Mab for quitting the party -- Mayor
0:18:04 > 0:18:07and then quit the party are that their stance on abortion.We are
0:18:07 > 0:18:12pro-life and believe that we should and we must cherish all the children
0:18:12 > 0:18:19in this nation equally. I stand with Patrick Pearse on that.Here is
0:18:19 > 0:18:29another outspoken pro-life voice still in the party, treble who voted
0:18:29 > 0:18:33against the oil bill allowing for limited abortions. He has been
0:18:33 > 0:18:37suspended, and wants to let members vote with their conscience but will
0:18:37 > 0:18:43he walk away if people said no? I would like to stay fully as tightly
0:18:43 > 0:18:47with the party on all issues and I do feel the need is insect relates
0:18:47 > 0:18:52-- articulates an this issue because it is so important and we are going
0:18:52 > 0:18:55to a bumpy road in the next few months but a bit of cohesion with
0:18:55 > 0:19:04respectful debate and openness on this we could actually stabilise the
0:19:04 > 0:19:09political issue on that bumpy road. Sinn Fein say it's abortion policy
0:19:09 > 0:19:13will be set by delegates at the Ard Fheis. The current position is that
0:19:13 > 0:19:20the law in Ireland should be amended, in cases of rape, sexual
0:19:20 > 0:19:27crime, fatal faecal abnormalities and where a woman's life is at risk.
0:19:27 > 0:19:33The party will eventually move even further, perhaps.I believe it will
0:19:33 > 0:19:37perhaps become a pro-choice party, certainly in places like Dublin and
0:19:37 > 0:19:41Belfast where the vast majority of party members would be claiming to
0:19:41 > 0:19:46be pro-choice in that direction. There will be a lively debate, a
0:19:46 > 0:19:50mixture of urban versus rural and young versus old.But is it true to
0:19:50 > 0:19:54say that it is part of a generational shift? We put the
0:19:54 > 0:20:00theory to the test that the over 50s club in Creggan. The room was evenly
0:20:00 > 0:20:03split between pro-choice and pro-life. And there was no shortage
0:20:03 > 0:20:10of strong views.I believe it should be the lady's choice. To do what she
0:20:10 > 0:20:20feels is right.It is something that everybody who is having a disabled
0:20:20 > 0:20:25child or feel they will should be able to do abort.That is a
0:20:25 > 0:20:31different kettle of fish, isn't it? The baby didn't ask to be born. If
0:20:31 > 0:20:40it is unhealthy, then aborted? To make it is a life.Sinn Fein say
0:20:40 > 0:20:46their views reflect those of the wider society. When Gerry Adams
0:20:46 > 0:20:50speaks next weekend for the 34th time, the focus will now doubt shift
0:20:50 > 0:20:53to his retirement plans and his departure timetable amongst others.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55Enda McClafferty reporting.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57The Taoiseach's decision to wear a hybrid "shamrock poppy"
0:20:57 > 0:21:00in the Dail this week led to raised eyebrows - as well as
0:21:00 > 0:21:01praise and criticism.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03The lapel badge was commissioned by the Irish branch
0:21:03 > 0:21:06of the Royal British Legion and proceeds raised go to veterans
0:21:06 > 0:21:14and their families living in Ireland who've served in UK forces.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Sinn Fein said while it was Leo Varadkar's personal
0:21:16 > 0:21:19decision, it was not one a Sinn Fein Taoiseach would choose.
0:21:19 > 0:21:21With me now is the Irish Senator who gave
0:21:21 > 0:21:24the badge to the Taoiseach, Frank Feighan, and the Irish News
0:21:24 > 0:21:26journalist Allison Morris, who has a personal interest
0:21:26 > 0:21:32in the issue.
0:21:32 > 0:21:37Why has the wearing of the poppy become an SU for you?Over the
0:21:37 > 0:21:41years, over 50,000 Irish nationalists and unionists in the
0:21:41 > 0:21:47island of Ireland made the ultimate sacrifice and we airbrushed their
0:21:47 > 0:21:52sacrifice out of our history in the Republic in the last ten or five
0:21:52 > 0:21:56years we have become very confident and reassured of our past and now it
0:21:56 > 0:22:05is time to remember the sacrifices of people and I think with the
0:22:05 > 0:22:08commemorations we have come a long way.You believe that people in the
0:22:08 > 0:22:11Republic should reconnect with the poppy and what it stands for and the
0:22:11 > 0:22:18poppy shamrock that you were wearing on your lapel tonight is the way to
0:22:18 > 0:22:23do that?In 1924, two years after the foundation of the state 150,000
0:22:23 > 0:22:33people were in Dublin celebrating Armistice Day and it is amazing that
0:22:33 > 0:22:3670 years after that we have completely forgotten about it and
0:22:36 > 0:22:43effectively we have allowed a unionism to commemorate the
0:22:43 > 0:22:48sacrifices, and we neglected to do that.Alison, you have a conjugated
0:22:48 > 0:22:55and very personal history with the poppy.It is and I agree with what
0:22:55 > 0:23:01he has said because some of my own family's history wasn't spoken about
0:23:01 > 0:23:06in the past ten years. My great-grandfather died in the First
0:23:06 > 0:23:14World War, and the temporary Cabernet, moved to Belfast and
0:23:14 > 0:23:18enjoyed the British Army, the Royal Irish rifles and his war history was
0:23:18 > 0:23:23known, some family documents were uncovered at a funeral and they
0:23:23 > 0:23:28found a telegram sent to my grandma Rose telling her that he had died.
0:23:28 > 0:23:38It lasted 56 days is career in the Army, until he died in Belgium. His
0:23:38 > 0:23:41son joined the same regiment and was captured in World War II by the
0:23:41 > 0:23:44Japanese and was a prisoner of war and was released until 1945 when his
0:23:44 > 0:23:50family thought he was dead. He was found in a prisoner of war camp.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53Those other two reasons why you might choose to wear the poppy.
0:23:53 > 0:23:58There is another connection which I suppose really is the reason you
0:23:58 > 0:24:02choose not to wear the poppy, is that right, your cousin?There are
0:24:02 > 0:24:06many reasons. We have a comic Eddie this day in Northern Ireland and it
0:24:06 > 0:24:13has been hijacked, the poppy, mostly by loyalist paramilitaries who
0:24:13 > 0:24:19wrongly use the poppy. Today I did a story in relation to a lady who's
0:24:19 > 0:24:23uncle was a RAF war hero, fought in the Battle of Britain and was shot
0:24:23 > 0:24:32in the old part in the back by a gunman, and there are poppy is an
0:24:32 > 0:24:42the murderer's mural. My cousin was named after both of those men. They
0:24:42 > 0:24:46were shot by a member of the British Army, and was the first British
0:24:46 > 0:24:55soldier in Northern Ireland convicted of murder on duty. It was
0:24:55 > 0:25:00found he was taken out of prison and was back in the army again.
0:25:00 > 0:25:04Bananarama came to his funeral and it is funny that I'm sitting talking
0:25:04 > 0:25:08about this now.What do you wonder in that article today is what that
0:25:08 > 0:25:14person responsible killing your cousin would think if he knew about
0:25:14 > 0:25:18the connection that that's dead man, your cousin, had with his
0:25:18 > 0:25:22grandfather and great-grandfather who had served in the same Army?You
0:25:22 > 0:25:27wonder, that is the convicted history we have here in Northern
0:25:27 > 0:25:30Ireland basically that soldier had shot a man in a back who was the
0:25:30 > 0:25:33grandson or great-grandson of the war heroes for the British Army and
0:25:33 > 0:25:36you would wonder if he didn't know that at the time, does he know that
0:25:36 > 0:25:41now, I don't know where he is stop Frank, it is personal and you can
0:25:41 > 0:25:46see how it is quite an emotional story to tell.As Alison has done in
0:25:46 > 0:25:53public today. Can you see in a contested blaze like Northern
0:25:53 > 0:25:59Ireland how a symbol like the poppy is so controversial?Absolutely and
0:25:59 > 0:26:04it shows dues respect to what the poppy should stand for. Where I come
0:26:04 > 0:26:12from, a Republic view of how we can commemorate the history here and we
0:26:12 > 0:26:17saw over the years we have seen where the Easter Lily has been
0:26:17 > 0:26:21hijacked by a certain group and the Irish tricolour has been hijacked
0:26:21 > 0:26:25and maybe it is now time for middle Ireland to come together and to take
0:26:25 > 0:26:32back these symbols because those symbols belong to us all.I think
0:26:32 > 0:26:34the difference probably talking about the use the lily done it is
0:26:34 > 0:26:39easy for us to say is that we know that the furore surrounding James
0:26:39 > 0:26:43Maclean every year surrounding him not wearing a poppy, no one is
0:26:43 > 0:26:47deadly force someone to wear an Easter yearly but this is a sort of
0:26:47 > 0:26:50poppy fascism that we see every year, or if they appear an the X
0:26:50 > 0:26:57factor without the poppy, they are ostracised, that isn't what it
0:26:57 > 0:27:00should stand for. I can see what Leo Varadkar did and thought why he
0:27:00 > 0:27:04thought it was a gesture reaching out but I think it is a luxury
0:27:04 > 0:27:07afforded to be would love not been touched by the troubles like we have
0:27:07 > 0:27:11here.To be fair to some of those individuals or organisations
0:27:11 > 0:27:14involved in the Poppy Appeal, what they would say is no body should be
0:27:14 > 0:27:19forced to wear the poppy.It is in them that drive this sort of
0:27:19 > 0:27:21fascism, it isn't the British Legion driving at agenda. It comes from
0:27:21 > 0:27:26other places and what we say about the fact it has been hijacked here
0:27:26 > 0:27:29in Northern Ireland than you can see that happening in England where it
0:27:29 > 0:27:38has been hijacked by the far right and the flag and such, people like
0:27:38 > 0:27:44my grandfather and great-grandfather who did make that ultimate sacrifice
0:27:44 > 0:27:52are being honoured among side others who did not deserve that honour.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56What about the shamrock poppy, can you see where that situation may be
0:27:56 > 0:28:05would be an uncontested symbol?
0:28:05 > 0:28:11I was not even aware of it until the Taoiseach wore it. I think it is a
0:28:11 > 0:28:22lovely idea because there are graves in the south of British veterans.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27That money goes to look after the memorials. That is an honest and
0:28:27 > 0:28:32decent use of that kind of money and decent use of the Poppy. I can see
0:28:32 > 0:28:39where he is coming from. But I do think it is about choice and people
0:28:39 > 0:28:46should wear a poppy if the want. He should wear red for the right
0:28:46 > 0:28:52reasons.Sometimes people waited for the wrong reasons. It is an
0:28:52 > 0:28:58interesting conversation. Maybe the best you could hope for, wearing it,
0:28:58 > 0:29:01by sending the Poppy to the Taoiseach and seeing him where it
0:29:01 > 0:29:05then that Dail is that it opens up that conversation north and South of
0:29:05 > 0:29:12the border.Absolutely. It always helps when the conciliation for the
0:29:12 > 0:29:19island of Ireland.You sent a lapel badge to several political leaders
0:29:19 > 0:29:24including Sinn Fein President, Gerry Adams, did he come back to you?It
0:29:24 > 0:29:30was my colleague who sent it. He would have got an Easter lily pen
0:29:30 > 0:29:38from Gerry Adams and he would have reciprocated. Was the correspondence
0:29:38 > 0:29:45back?I do not know. Is it something that will gain traction in years to
0:29:45 > 0:29:53come in the South?I think so. When we see the history and we see how
0:29:53 > 0:29:59these men were airbrushed out of history, it is a worthwhile future
0:29:59 > 0:30:06for the Irish label Poppy in the Republic.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08Thank you both.
0:30:08 > 0:30:12And let's hear from tonight's commentators -
0:30:12 > 0:30:17Fionnuala O Connor and Alex Kane.
0:30:17 > 0:30:22I do not know how where you were of the Shamrock poppy but doesn't hold
0:30:22 > 0:30:28any attraction for you?I agree, it comes down to choice. I where the
0:30:28 > 0:30:33poppy but I only wear it on the 11th, part of that is because it has
0:30:33 > 0:30:41been hijacked, it upsets me to see loyalist paramilitaries using the
0:30:41 > 0:30:48poppy for portico reasons. And on social media. It is a personal thing
0:30:48 > 0:30:52but that is worth bearing in mind that her study proves the further
0:30:52 > 0:30:59you go from an event, the more you read in to look at the symbol, look
0:30:59 > 0:31:09at what really happened. It was about freedom, it was about choices.
0:31:09 > 0:31:16Do you think it is a genuine attempt to draw the sting on what is a
0:31:16 > 0:31:23tricky issue?I would not question the motives. I cannot see how it
0:31:23 > 0:31:27could be anything other than genuine. I do not where badgers and
0:31:27 > 0:31:38I do not much like them.
0:31:40 > 0:31:47-- badges. One of the horrors is to realise that there were people in
0:31:47 > 0:31:50Europe and family who went through that. My grandfather as well was
0:31:50 > 0:31:57then World War I. He went because he could not get work in Belfast. He
0:31:57 > 0:32:06came back into the maelstrom of Belfast in 1918, 1919 and he joined
0:32:06 > 0:32:12Michael Collins's army. But he could not talk about it afterwards. He
0:32:12 > 0:32:20could not talk about Gallipoli, the Dardanelles, he was a simple man who
0:32:20 > 0:32:34was forced to do something that was not in his nature.What we have
0:32:34 > 0:32:39underscored again tonight, is that for everybody it is a very personal
0:32:39 > 0:32:46experience and people where I do not where it for all kinds of reasons.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49The budget, happening on Monday, interesting conversation between
0:32:49 > 0:32:53Kate Hoey and Colum Eastwood, as its direct rule in all but name?Maybe I
0:32:53 > 0:33:02am old-fashioned stop direct rule means there is no Assembly. You...
0:33:02 > 0:33:11Somebody described that as not having devolution. We are still
0:33:11 > 0:33:16going to pay these people for doing nothing. We cannot do anything at
0:33:16 > 0:33:23all but could you keep being as Mr mac it is offensive. It needs to be
0:33:23 > 0:33:32sorted. James Cook and sheer -- James broken sheer should see the
0:33:32 > 0:33:41salaries are stopping now. He will never make any big decision.He
0:33:41 > 0:33:44would see things differently and I suppose his view and their view of
0:33:44 > 0:33:47those around him is that he is doing everything he can to bleed life into
0:33:47 > 0:33:57a startling process.He has also got to keep in with the DUP, and things
0:33:57 > 0:34:02are going their way, it is said, but I wonder they are, and I wonder if
0:34:02 > 0:34:06the state of the current British Government is the state of
0:34:06 > 0:34:18reassurance to the DUP, I do not see how it could be.
0:34:18 > 0:34:25Do you think the talks are over? Last week it was said that this
0:34:25 > 0:34:28phase of the process is over. There is nothing to talk about. They are
0:34:28 > 0:34:35not that course.I think Gregory Campbell put his finger on it when
0:34:35 > 0:34:40he said we never signed up to the Good Friday Agreement and that is a
0:34:40 > 0:34:43declaration that there was not anything there to begin with. I
0:34:43 > 0:34:53would be surprised if James Brokenshire pools at down, it would
0:34:53 > 0:34:58be difficult to put it back up again, now it is impossible because
0:34:58 > 0:35:02of DUP's big use all to sign up in the first place means there is
0:35:02 > 0:35:11nothing to put back together again.
0:35:11 > 0:35:13That's it from The View for this week.
0:35:13 > 0:35:14We're back next
0:35:14 > 0:35:17week at the same time, but we leave you tonight
0:35:17 > 0:35:18with one of Stormont's most intrepid politicians -
0:35:18 > 0:35:22the man who dared to go behind enemy lines in search of a sugar fix,
0:35:22 > 0:35:23no matter what the cost.
0:35:23 > 0:35:24Good night.
0:35:24 > 0:35:31Again I am at the DUP vending machine.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45I will get my change there.
0:35:49 > 0:35:57How did that happen? I put £1 in the DUP vending machine and I got £1 60
0:35:57 > 0:35:59back.