0:00:03 > 0:00:06No agreement on a Stormont deal, nor on who should run
0:00:06 > 0:00:08the place instead, but a series of increasingly
0:00:08 > 0:00:12toxic exchanges between two political tribes.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15So has all hope now gone for the restoration of devolution?
0:00:15 > 0:00:19Welcome to The View.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41All last year hopes were being held out for a deal to get Stormont
0:00:41 > 0:00:45up and running again, but barely two weeks into 2018
0:00:45 > 0:00:49and it's emerged that one of tonight's guests is looking
0:00:49 > 0:00:51for other work because he doesn't think Stormont is coming back.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54The DUP's Edwin Poots says he'd prefer to stay in politics
0:00:54 > 0:00:57and a working Assembly than get a new job, but we'll ask him
0:00:57 > 0:01:01and Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd about what appears to be a very slim
0:01:01 > 0:01:05chance of their parties forming an Executive together again.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08All of that comes at the end of a week where another
0:01:08 > 0:01:11politician's tweet - whether intended or unintended -
0:01:11 > 0:01:17has raised suspicions and lowered expectations.
0:01:17 > 0:01:22That is why we have a political process, because people believed
0:01:22 > 0:01:26their game was up with outright terrorism and violence. Had they had
0:01:26 > 0:01:29a change within their mindset and hearts, actually they have to do
0:01:29 > 0:01:30business in a different way.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33And no strangers to the airwaves, but newbies in Commentators' Corner,
0:01:33 > 0:01:35we welcome on board Allison Morris from the Irish News
0:01:35 > 0:01:39and the News Letter's Sam McBride.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Is it only in Northern Ireland that an image of a man with a loaf
0:01:47 > 0:01:50of bread on his head could lead to a political crisis?
0:01:50 > 0:01:53But that's what happened here this week - and we're still calculating
0:01:53 > 0:01:54the possible damage.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58Sinn Fein called the actions of Barry McElduff indefensible,
0:01:58 > 0:02:01but the party's decision to suspend the West Tyrone MP -
0:02:01 > 0:02:03and not expel him - appears to have compounded the situation.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07In a moment we'll hear from Sinn Fein and from the DUP,
0:02:07 > 0:02:10which says republicans must stop glorifying IRA terrorism.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13But first Gareth Gordon assesses how bad the fall-out from this
0:02:13 > 0:02:21strangest of affairs might be.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26This is the Sinn Fein side on the third floor. That sat there is DUP
0:02:26 > 0:02:32territory, but that is where I have to go to get a Snickers.This is
0:02:32 > 0:02:38Barry McElduff doing what he does.I put a pound in the DUP vending
0:02:38 > 0:02:51machine, and I got £1 60 back...And this is the moment the joke
0:02:51 > 0:02:57backfired on Barry McElduff and his party.I am at a classic
0:02:57 > 0:03:01devastation, and I wonder where they keep the bread?The MP with the
0:03:01 > 0:03:05Kingsmill loaf on its head denied knowing it was the anniversary of
0:03:05 > 0:03:09the Kingsmills massacre.I have no doubt that hurt and pain has been
0:03:09 > 0:03:13caused, but, you know, it was genuinely unintended on my part.
0:03:13 > 0:03:20That is not the way it has turned out.No matter how one examines it,
0:03:20 > 0:03:26it was offensive. Coming from where I come from, there is only a handful
0:03:26 > 0:03:30of Protestant families in our immediate area. I think there has
0:03:30 > 0:03:35always been a great sense of protection and protectiveness of
0:03:35 > 0:03:39those Protestant families among the Catholics and nationalists living in
0:03:39 > 0:03:44that area. So, if you offend one of those you will offend me.The
0:03:44 > 0:03:50journalist reflected the widespread sense of outrage that went well
0:03:50 > 0:03:54beyond the unionist community. In the run-up to the first anniversary
0:03:54 > 0:03:58of Martin McGuinness resignation as First Minister, it puts Sinn Fein on
0:03:58 > 0:04:04the back foot at the worst possible time. After being summoned to the
0:04:04 > 0:04:08leadership, Barry McElduff left suspended the not expelled as many
0:04:08 > 0:04:12thought he should have been. It is hard to imagine relations between
0:04:12 > 0:04:17DUP and Sinn Fein getting any worse. But this episode may just have done
0:04:17 > 0:04:22it. The DUP leader visited the Kingsmills families, many said they
0:04:22 > 0:04:26were shocked by the punishment.I think it is a pathetic response from
0:04:26 > 0:04:29the Sinn Fein leadership. They should really reflect on this
0:04:29 > 0:04:34tonight.It is a feeling shared by this journalist who has written
0:04:34 > 0:04:41widely on the plight of victims. What if one of the DUP politicians
0:04:41 > 0:04:43who thinks their hell areas, and Iraq a few of those around as well,
0:04:43 > 0:04:53what if he had gone around with a pan on his head on the anniversary
0:04:53 > 0:04:58of the book isn't massacre. -- and there are a few of those. With the
0:04:58 > 0:05:02DUP be happy if they got a slap on the wrist and a three-month
0:05:02 > 0:05:06suspension on full pay. That is the way we need to think about this.
0:05:06 > 0:05:14Sinn Fein has made very light of this and they talked about it at
0:05:14 > 0:05:20first as if he thought it was very serious, but when it came to it, the
0:05:20 > 0:05:25sanction was extremely light by any standards.So why did Sinn Fein take
0:05:25 > 0:05:30the course they did?Anyway short of expelling Barry McElduff, I thought
0:05:30 > 0:05:35they were never going to satisfy their political opponents. Given
0:05:35 > 0:05:39that, clearly the leadership of champagne at this, believe Barry
0:05:39 > 0:05:44McElduff account that this is an awful coincidence. That action fame.
0:05:44 > 0:05:51I never thought they would expel them. Barry McElduff as an awful lot
0:05:51 > 0:05:57of what to do to salvage that reputation, that has to be ditching
0:05:57 > 0:06:00this joking persona that landed him in this bother. It is also about
0:06:00 > 0:06:07repairing his relationship within the party and the electorate and
0:06:07 > 0:06:13also amongst Unionists.Unionists might be a step too far. This meant
0:06:13 > 0:06:21is from Armagh where Kingsmills is felt most deeply.Barry McElduff was
0:06:21 > 0:06:26reflecting a different view from people in his political party? I
0:06:26 > 0:06:33don't think so. I don't think there has been a change of heart who were
0:06:33 > 0:06:35participants in violence who glorified that violence. That is why
0:06:35 > 0:06:40we have a political process, because people believed their game was up
0:06:40 > 0:06:44with outright terrorism and violence. Had they actually had a
0:06:44 > 0:06:47change within their mindset and hearts, that actually they have to
0:06:47 > 0:06:51do business in a different way. That is a question that I do think has
0:06:51 > 0:06:59yet been over.As they try once more to revive devolution, the chances of
0:06:59 > 0:07:03success are not great anyway. There is little doubt that the way back to
0:07:03 > 0:07:07Stormont is now even more difficult to see.We were in a position fairly
0:07:07 > 0:07:12quickly to calculate the damaged by Arlene Foster reference to
0:07:12 > 0:07:15crocodiles, simply because we had to election is coming very rapidly
0:07:15 > 0:07:21after her remarks. Now, we don't have an election in the offing now.
0:07:21 > 0:07:27So, that damage, that potential damage, is more difficult to
0:07:27 > 0:07:32evaluate at this point in time. We are in a fast potential here with a
0:07:32 > 0:07:37new Secretary of State, the whole Brexit row is endless. So, this may
0:07:37 > 0:07:42not be as damaging as Eileen's remarks, but it is going to be very
0:07:42 > 0:07:46hard for people to forget. -- Arlene Foster's remarks.
0:07:46 > 0:07:47Gareth Gordon reporting.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49So where does all of that leave relations between
0:07:49 > 0:07:51the two main parties - and any prospect of
0:07:51 > 0:07:52devolution talks resuming?
0:07:52 > 0:08:00I'm joined by the DUP's Edwin Poots and Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03Not a good week for Sinn Fein, I think everybody agrees with that.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07What you need to do to win back the trust and respect of people who are
0:08:07 > 0:08:10fed up to the back teeth of conduct of local politicians and the failure
0:08:10 > 0:08:16of local politics?I think first and foremost this has been an awful week
0:08:16 > 0:08:21for the victims of Kingsmills. And also for victims across our society.
0:08:21 > 0:08:28I don't believe Barry's reactions were setting out to cause hurt, but
0:08:28 > 0:08:32he has caused hurt. We as a party have to recognise that and Barry has
0:08:32 > 0:08:37to recognise that. We still have our political responsibilities and a
0:08:37 > 0:08:39responsibility to deal with the issues that have brought it to the
0:08:39 > 0:08:42current political impasse. They have not gone away. We sent me an don't
0:08:42 > 0:08:48need to add to our problems, we have not problems to deal with without
0:08:48 > 0:08:51anyone or any section of our society adding more problems. But, we have
0:08:51 > 0:08:55to solve the political problems we have, and I think that is the best
0:08:55 > 0:08:58testament we can make to all of those people out there who have
0:08:58 > 0:09:05suffered because of... That we never make the same mistakes we have done
0:09:05 > 0:09:09in the past.We will talk about Barry McElduff's video in a moment
0:09:09 > 0:09:13of truth. What USA is that to recover from a difficult week we
0:09:13 > 0:09:17need to make politics work. What you are saying... But this is making
0:09:17 > 0:09:22things more difficult, that is the conundrum.I think this has been
0:09:22 > 0:09:25exacerbated because we were in a difficult political situation in the
0:09:25 > 0:09:30first place. I read Ian Paisley Junior peace in the newspaper on
0:09:30 > 0:09:36Saturday morning before this incident had fully developed. He was
0:09:36 > 0:09:43setting up a bleak view on Saturday. There have been comments around that
0:09:43 > 0:09:46they did not support the agreement in the past and will not supported
0:09:46 > 0:09:50in the future. The basis on which we have political agreement has been
0:09:50 > 0:09:53undermined and chipped away at constantly. We have to resolve it,
0:09:53 > 0:09:56we have together ourselves together and move on to make the political
0:09:56 > 0:10:02solutions that we know we can get to, we have to make them work.Edwin
0:10:02 > 0:10:07Poots, Sinn Fein has not had a monopoly on attracting criticism
0:10:07 > 0:10:12this week, what can the DUP do to win back people's trust?I think
0:10:12 > 0:10:14there is an important thing to do that both parties and that is
0:10:14 > 0:10:19engaging to people from other communities and have people feel
0:10:19 > 0:10:23comfortable, wherever they happen to be from. I recognise that from our
0:10:23 > 0:10:30part. We need to be reaching out and we have been working on that. I
0:10:30 > 0:10:36think that Fein is certainly need Sinn to do that, as well. It was
0:10:36 > 0:10:42hugely unfortunate what Barry McElduff done, we have a
0:10:42 > 0:10:46circumstance where 12 men were on a bus, one man was asked to walk away
0:10:46 > 0:10:49because he was Roman Catholic and the other 11 were pumped full of
0:10:49 > 0:10:56bullets, ten died. The IRA had a sectarian campaign as did others,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00that this was manifested so clearly in this incident when the one Roman
0:11:00 > 0:11:05Catholic was asked to leave the bus and mass murder happened. To mock
0:11:05 > 0:11:11that is something that has caused huge hurt and devastation,
0:11:11 > 0:11:16particularly in south Armagh.A lot of people were offended by your
0:11:16 > 0:11:19colleague, Christopher Stalford's actions last night. He would be
0:11:19 > 0:11:24treated the offensive cartoon, and his critics said he attempted to
0:11:24 > 0:11:29score political points in this. There is no high ground.Brian
0:11:29 > 0:11:32Spencer's cutting was probably one of the most hard-hitting cuttings of
0:11:32 > 0:11:37the troubles. It did spell out very clearly what Sinn Fein was about.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Christopher was very quick to respond whenever someone asked in to
0:11:40 > 0:11:46respond. And he immediately removed it.But his accompanying message is
0:11:46 > 0:11:50what caused a lot of offence and what led to people saying that
0:11:50 > 0:11:54Christopher Stalford was trying to make political capital out of it.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57Sinn Fein, offended by everything and ashamed by nothing. Retweeting
0:11:57 > 0:12:00the cutting was not the problem, putting that message alongside it
0:12:00 > 0:12:05was what annoyed so many people.I'm not sure who that actual message
0:12:05 > 0:12:12annoyed. I think some of the victims were annoyed by just how powerful
0:12:12 > 0:12:15the cartoon was and I can understand anybody who lost a loved one could
0:12:15 > 0:12:19feel that it was going to far. That is who Christopher was responding
0:12:19 > 0:12:25to. He was not responding to the Naomi Long's of the world.She asked
0:12:25 > 0:12:29to take you down and said it was appropriate. John O'Dowd, what did
0:12:29 > 0:12:33you make of the Brian Spencer cartoon and the row that erupted
0:12:33 > 0:12:39over the message that was posted with by Christopher Stalford and
0:12:39 > 0:12:42also Doug Beattie got into hot water on social media last night because
0:12:42 > 0:12:48of his engagement in that debate. Political art is not... I have no
0:12:48 > 0:12:53difficulty with the journalist or the artist producing this piece of
0:12:53 > 0:12:58work. The hypocrisy of some within Unionism, I have to say I have a
0:12:58 > 0:13:02difficult with. It may cause offence but they refuse to take it down, and
0:13:02 > 0:13:06when it was taken down down they accuse others of having a problem
0:13:06 > 0:13:11with that. I think there is a lot to be learnt from this week. It has not
0:13:11 > 0:13:15been a good week for politics. As I said at the start of the programme,
0:13:15 > 0:13:18it's me has not been a good week for the victims of the conflict. I think
0:13:18 > 0:13:21we all need to take a step back, ensure whatever we say and do is
0:13:21 > 0:13:27measured. And that we learn from the lessons of this week and that we
0:13:27 > 0:13:33endeavour to develop to repeat, it is our only solution to the
0:13:33 > 0:13:36problems. We have to make politics work and ensure the agreements that
0:13:36 > 0:13:40we have signed up to and what we have difficult fee with, or the
0:13:40 > 0:13:44agreements were a compromise either by Unionism or Republicanism. There
0:13:44 > 0:13:48is an uncanny are uncomfortable nature with all the agreements. It
0:13:48 > 0:13:56is the best we have and get and we have to move on.Can I say there is
0:13:56 > 0:14:06amarkedly different tone from the airwaves on Monday, Edwin Poots, you
0:14:06 > 0:14:10were and I were involved in a conversation on the radio and you
0:14:10 > 0:14:15were knocking lumps out of each other at that stage. It is a
0:14:15 > 0:14:18different situation that I find myself into night. Have you both
0:14:18 > 0:14:24learned lessons over the past few days?
0:14:24 > 0:14:29We have plenty of time to kick lumps out of each other before the
0:14:29 > 0:14:33programme finishes. Then all of these things, we need to move on.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36Politics in Northern Ireland needs to move on. It is not good for the
0:14:36 > 0:14:43Trinity, it has not been good in the health service as we have noticed. I
0:14:43 > 0:14:48waiting times that were too long are no longer. We have not seen the
0:14:48 > 0:14:52reform and education that we need, and we have not witnessed the
0:14:52 > 0:14:55housing programme being developed that should have been happening.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59There are lots of things that should be happening right now with the
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Government, with the ministers in place, and that can't
0:15:02 > 0:15:06Government, with the ministers in place, and that can't go on. We need
0:15:06 > 0:15:12to have Government, and that is our prevalence all day long. We need to
0:15:12 > 0:15:19happiness is included.Hadi respond to that? There is nothing
0:15:19 > 0:15:22particularly new in what Edwin Poots it saying, but using it in a
0:15:22 > 0:15:25slightly different way to which it has been said on a number of
0:15:25 > 0:15:30occasions over the past 12 months. Up against that, you are going to
0:15:30 > 0:15:33tell me that Sinn Fein's equality and respect agenda remains
0:15:33 > 0:15:40unchanged. Does it? Because that doesn't cut any ice with Unionists
0:15:40 > 0:15:48after the Barry McElduff affair?I think the events of last week make
0:15:48 > 0:15:52the equality and respect agenda of the more important. Because Barry
0:15:52 > 0:15:57McElduff shot Sinn Fein in the fit? Sinn Fein are dead hand, I have no
0:15:57 > 0:16:02hard that the less people watching this programme tonight to our very
0:16:02 > 0:16:08angry, and that includes Sinn Fein supporters.As a justifiable?Yes, I
0:16:08 > 0:16:13think it is. I think we have a right to be angry. I'm convinced, because
0:16:13 > 0:16:17I know the character of the man, that Barry did not set out to cause
0:16:17 > 0:16:20heart pain, but the fact of the matter is that he did, and we have
0:16:20 > 0:16:26to deal with that.The issue is whether he meant to do but he did
0:16:26 > 0:16:30and he meant to cause offence, and you are not good to agree on that.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34There is also the additional issue of how CVC Sinn Fein to get when it
0:16:34 > 0:16:39came down to the final analysis, and you're actually putting and post
0:16:39 > 0:16:43something of action against him, something the punishment, and you
0:16:43 > 0:16:48had one of our contributors saying that the argument is it was not
0:16:48 > 0:16:53enough, it was an extremely led a tangent, that is how she put it, for
0:16:53 > 0:16:56something that was described as very crass, stupid, hopeful and
0:16:56 > 0:17:01unforgivable. Three-month suspension on full pay.Work on a punishment is
0:17:01 > 0:17:04that? We do not believe that he set out to cause heart and unforgivable.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07Three-month suspension on full pay. Work on a punishment is that? We do
0:17:07 > 0:17:10not believe that he set out to cause our campaign, so we will not satisfy
0:17:10 > 0:17:12those people, and when it comes to the Kingsmills families, I can
0:17:12 > 0:17:15understand why they are angry and annoyed, and I also understand why
0:17:15 > 0:17:19they do not trust watching anything, because why would they? They had
0:17:19 > 0:17:23been deeply hard by the Barbican is, so why would the trust us? We have
0:17:23 > 0:17:28to look at what is being presented to us. I believe he did not set out
0:17:28 > 0:17:31to cause harm, but he did, and I also read that sanctions were
0:17:31 > 0:17:35required against him.He has now been suspended for three months. His
0:17:35 > 0:17:40constituency office today say he is on full pay.He is representing his
0:17:40 > 0:17:44constituents. He is no longer involved in any Sinn Fein work.
0:17:44 > 0:17:51While he be involved in electing Gerry Adams's successor he is
0:17:51 > 0:17:57suspended.He will have no vote at local level, national level or any
0:17:57 > 0:18:06other level. He will have no say in terms of internal discussions I've
0:18:06 > 0:18:10owned...Can I be absolutely clear, what is your message to Barry
0:18:10 > 0:18:17McElduff if he is watching this programme tonight? It is actions any
0:18:17 > 0:18:20schism and indefensible. We shall I know says ill judged, indefensible,
0:18:20 > 0:18:25an error of judgment which cause heart on paint and something that
0:18:25 > 0:18:30fell short of the standard expected of Sinn Fein.What is your message?
0:18:30 > 0:18:36I endorse those messages, and speaking to other party colleagues,
0:18:36 > 0:18:42we endorse those messages, and we believe that Barry has listened to
0:18:42 > 0:18:47this message and realise... Has a lead you down? I am not concerned
0:18:47 > 0:18:51about me. Had he let Sinn Fein down? The most important people he has let
0:18:51 > 0:18:55down if the families of the Kingsmills attack. He has let down
0:18:55 > 0:19:02other victims across satiety, and he has let itself down. That is where
0:19:02 > 0:19:09the heart has been caused. Should he stop clowning around, Ron? It would
0:19:09 > 0:19:16not be my still, I have to say, and social media. I think politicians
0:19:16 > 0:19:20have a responsibility, and I think it is best to leave the comedy to
0:19:20 > 0:19:24the comedians at times, and allow the representatives to get on with
0:19:24 > 0:19:29it.Sinn Fein suspended another politician first six months because
0:19:29 > 0:19:36he had his an abortion may disagree with. It seems a somewhat different
0:19:36 > 0:19:42attitude.Sinn Fein's political opponents were never going to be
0:19:42 > 0:19:48satisfied...LED never a Sinn Fein has been punished before, and that
0:19:48 > 0:19:56was his punishment.But you can tell, catchy, sitting here tonight,
0:19:56 > 0:20:00that a John O'Dowd is annoyed by what Barry McElduff did. You can
0:20:00 > 0:20:06tell he is disappointed and annotated by what Mr McElduff dead.
0:20:06 > 0:20:11You can see that, can't you?I can see that, but we need to dig a
0:20:11 > 0:20:16little further. First of all, Sinn Fein have never condemned the
0:20:16 > 0:20:20Kingsmill massacre.We have. I will put it on the record here tonight. I
0:20:20 > 0:20:26remember Kingsmills very well. I had to my cousins shot dead the night
0:20:26 > 0:20:30before, and I had another uncle left for dead. What happened at
0:20:30 > 0:20:35Kingsmills was wrong, it was sectarian, and regardless of who
0:20:35 > 0:20:38carried it out, whether it was the IRA are others are people acting
0:20:38 > 0:20:42from the IRA, it was long and have condemned it in the past, and I had
0:20:42 > 0:20:46my condemnation to a tonight. It is wrong when it happened, it is long
0:20:46 > 0:20:52today.Do you accept that it was a purely sectarian murder, about ten
0:20:52 > 0:20:59men were killed because they were Protestant?Yes. It is shameful what
0:20:59 > 0:21:03happened on the roadside insert a mat that day. Absolutely shameful.
0:21:03 > 0:21:08As a Republican, I am ashamed at that. Those who carried it out
0:21:08 > 0:21:12should be ashamed. I am one of many now Republican leaders who has said
0:21:12 > 0:21:18what happened at Kingsmills was wrong. Those who carried it out does
0:21:18 > 0:21:25not in anyway advance the cause of Irish unity, and we have caused...
0:21:25 > 0:21:29That is why I say I am not surprised by the Kingsmills families are so
0:21:29 > 0:21:33annoyed, and will not believe what Sinn Fein has said, because
0:21:33 > 0:21:37Republicans have harmed them. But there is a responsibility for
0:21:37 > 0:21:41Unionist politicians and the public and politicians to move the society
0:21:41 > 0:21:44forward.That is our responsibility. Can I take that one step forward
0:21:44 > 0:21:47question what you have said in clear terms that you are ashamed of what
0:21:47 > 0:21:50happens, then it was completely wrong and unforgivable and any
0:21:50 > 0:21:53schism. We do lead to see the people responsible for that brought to
0:21:53 > 0:21:58justice?If the families of Kingsmill have a right to access
0:21:58 > 0:22:02justice. Just as every other families who have lost loved ones.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06There are many, many families out there who has not seen the
0:22:06 > 0:22:09perpetrators who have killed their loved ones before the courts. All
0:22:09 > 0:22:13those families deserve access to justice, and the Kingsmill families
0:22:13 > 0:22:25deserve access to justice.Women recruits had the murder weapon. Sinn
0:22:25 > 0:22:29Fein think he is a fitting person to name a playpark after that children
0:22:29 > 0:22:33play in. They say this is a man of honour, this is and we should
0:22:33 > 0:22:37respect, but he had the weapon that was involved at the Kingsmill
0:22:37 > 0:22:41massacre.That does not mean he was involved.I don't want to rehash
0:22:41 > 0:22:44that argument, we have added many tens on the airwaves about the
0:22:44 > 0:22:56rights and wrongs of it naming a pack after the likes of this man. I
0:22:56 > 0:23:05understand...It is wrong.I do want you to adjust Pacific or the
0:23:05 > 0:23:09comments which are, to be like of which I have never had before
0:23:09 > 0:23:12certainly from a Sinn Fein representative about Kingsmills. How
0:23:12 > 0:23:17do you respond to what strikes me as a very personal reaction to
0:23:17 > 0:23:25Kingsmills after 42 years from John O'Dowd?I work on what he said. -- I
0:23:25 > 0:23:30welcome what he said, and I would say what having to has happened to
0:23:30 > 0:23:33has family was wrong as well, that should never have happened. We have
0:23:33 > 0:23:42a history of the baby killed on both sides. It has not achieved anything
0:23:42 > 0:23:49after all these years. As living a political vacuum is something others
0:23:49 > 0:23:53will look to fill, and it gives is all the more impetus to pitch every
0:23:53 > 0:23:59move things forward, and there are things we do not like about the DUP,
0:23:59 > 0:24:04about Sinn Fein, but we have what with them for ten years. This last
0:24:04 > 0:24:08year has been unproductive and unfulfilling as a politician,
0:24:08 > 0:24:11because things are not happening and you're not getting things done the
0:24:11 > 0:24:14way you should. I really want to see us moving forward and to an
0:24:14 > 0:24:17assembly, and to an executive, and we need to cut the red lines and get
0:24:17 > 0:24:22down to business.So disenchanted argue with the political situation
0:24:22 > 0:24:27that you told my colleague yesterday that you are looking for another
0:24:27 > 0:24:30job.I have considered what my options are outside of politics.You
0:24:30 > 0:24:35have said you are actively pursuing other work.I am looking at what the
0:24:35 > 0:24:42future might hold should be be unsuccessful in an outcome.Which
0:24:42 > 0:24:45way do you play that? Are you on the verge of throwing the towel in and
0:24:45 > 0:24:50walking away, Paula Bradley good to be W to get storm at up and running
0:24:50 > 0:24:55again? And that might involve some degree of compromise on your part.
0:24:55 > 0:25:04Are you prepared to do that? I think if you are looking at a precipice,
0:25:04 > 0:25:07you should avoid it, and it is a precipice. There are two ways of me
0:25:07 > 0:25:12personally avoiding it, and one way as we find a solution and I continue
0:25:12 > 0:25:16in politics, or if we do not find the solution, I quickly find
0:25:16 > 0:25:21something else to do and move on in life, and I want to ensure that I
0:25:21 > 0:25:25have both options fulfilled. But believe me, we are going to do our
0:25:25 > 0:25:29best to ensure that we can move Northern Ireland forward, and that
0:25:29 > 0:25:33involves, whether I like it or not, bother a lot of our supporters liked
0:25:33 > 0:25:39it or not, doing some sort of business with Sinn Fein, and whether
0:25:39 > 0:25:43Sinn Fein supporters like it or not, and will involve doing some sort of
0:25:43 > 0:25:48business with the DUP, because we are too large to be ignored in this.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51It seems to me there is a different mood in this conversation tonight.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54It is obvious from talking to the two of you before the programme and
0:25:54 > 0:25:58during, that you get on, and that effort was up to the two of you
0:25:58 > 0:26:03would like to see things sorted out in a positive way. The question is,
0:26:03 > 0:26:07what about the red lines that Fein has? You'd thought all be sitting in
0:26:07 > 0:26:12that seat in November on this programme that you cannot compromise
0:26:12 > 0:26:17on a compromise. Positions on equality and respect, and we will
0:26:17 > 0:26:22not be shifting. Things like Bill of Rights, same-sex marriage, an Irish
0:26:22 > 0:26:26language act. You prepared to discuss some kind of bigger room
0:26:26 > 0:26:30that allows you to get back into the executive with Edwin Poots and
0:26:30 > 0:26:33actually move forward and some of the issues that are not being sorted
0:26:33 > 0:26:41out at the moment?I do listen to develop common, things are difficult
0:26:41 > 0:26:46between the DUP and Sinn Fein. It is appropriate to be civil to each
0:26:46 > 0:26:52other in any setting, and we want to set an example for society and vice
0:26:52 > 0:26:57versa. But the reality as it has been constant that through this
0:26:57 > 0:27:02interview and other interviews, we have the politics of forward based
0:27:02 > 0:27:05on agreement, and those agreements have to be permitted. Those
0:27:05 > 0:27:08compromises which are public and spade and Unionist have made which
0:27:08 > 0:27:19are but us to this point have to be built upon. Let's implement...
0:27:19 > 0:27:22Equality and respect and integrity applies as much to us as it does to
0:27:22 > 0:27:26unionism, so we need to implement it.Any word, argue confident a deal
0:27:26 > 0:27:32can be done to restore devolution?I am realistic about the future. I
0:27:32 > 0:27:35think we have huge problems, but I think they can be overcome.I
0:27:35 > 0:27:40believe a deal could have been done last year, that the distance was not
0:27:40 > 0:27:45that far at some point. And if that is a mind to do it, a deal can be
0:27:45 > 0:27:49done this year. It's good to be very hard to sell given the events of the
0:27:49 > 0:27:55last year for both sides. Speaking for Mike community, and the
0:27:55 > 0:27:59committee I represent, I feel very much.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02Thank you, both.
0:28:02 > 0:28:10Now as we mentioned, we've a new Secretary of State
0:28:10 > 0:28:11in residence at Hillsborough Castle.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Karen Bradley has taken over from James Brokenshire
0:28:13 > 0:28:15who resigned suddenly on health grounds on Monday.
0:28:15 > 0:28:17She's an accountant by profession and a former Culture Secretary,
0:28:17 > 0:28:20but whether or not she'll figure out how to restore devolution
0:28:20 > 0:28:21is another matter.
0:28:21 > 0:28:23And as she immerses herself in all things Northern Ireland,
0:28:23 > 0:28:32how long will it take for her to get a clear vision of politics here?
0:28:41 > 0:28:52Hello, hello. Welcome. Tell me what you are doing?I am studying. I have
0:28:52 > 0:28:58a presentation in about ten minutes. Are we getting in the way!? I always
0:28:58 > 0:29:04thinks politics is life, everything you do in life, politics comes into
0:29:04 > 0:29:10it somewhere. Goodness me, I can change the law! That was a
0:29:10 > 0:29:13monumental thing in my life and the moment I thought I like this. I
0:29:13 > 0:29:21decided I was going to do this silly game of politics and here I am now.
0:29:26 > 0:29:30I know there are challenges, but I am determined that we will find a
0:29:30 > 0:29:35way through those challenges. We need to did deliver devolved
0:29:35 > 0:29:38Government to Northern Ireland as soon as possible and that is what I
0:29:38 > 0:29:39am determined to do.
0:29:39 > 0:29:41Someone who knows Karen Bradley is the journalist and broadcaster
0:29:41 > 0:29:43Anne McElvoy, who joins me now from London.
0:29:43 > 0:29:47Anne McElvoy, thank you.
0:29:47 > 0:29:58Do you think Theresa May made a good choice?I think she made the choice
0:29:58 > 0:30:02intended to make, that Karen Bradley is the minister closest to Theresa
0:30:02 > 0:30:06May personally. I think this is a sign that the Prime Minister is very
0:30:06 > 0:30:09serious about the situation, and particularly wanted to have someone
0:30:09 > 0:30:13on the ground who she can have constant communication with. The two
0:30:13 > 0:30:17women who I think are in touch, not that they sit there and pour out
0:30:17 > 0:30:21their hearts to each other, but there relationship has been a good
0:30:21 > 0:30:26and solid won over many years. She has someone in Karen Bradley summer
0:30:26 > 0:30:30she trusts to deliver.They are still quite close?Very close. To
0:30:30 > 0:30:34the extent that Karen Bradley has found it difficult in London to have
0:30:34 > 0:30:42a profile of her own. She has, going back to the David Cameron
0:30:42 > 0:30:45Government, on Theresa May's side. She signalled very early that she
0:30:45 > 0:30:48would support her to the leadership. She does not forget that after the
0:30:48 > 0:30:55torrid time she's been through, including Brexit, and the sense that
0:30:55 > 0:31:00perhaps not everyone in her Cabinet is her biggest fan. She is a
0:31:00 > 0:31:04different, and I'm sure this is felt on the ground in Northern Ireland, a
0:31:04 > 0:31:08different character to James Brokenshire. She is a different
0:31:08 > 0:31:14kettle of fish as a politician. People have noticed that she has a
0:31:14 > 0:31:16different approach to James Brokenshire, and he has been
0:31:16 > 0:31:21criticised by many people from maybe being a little bit hands off,
0:31:21 > 0:31:24quieter than perhaps some people would have liked, will she be
0:31:24 > 0:31:27different?I think she has a different personality. She's not
0:31:27 > 0:31:31particular the flashy, but she is particularly warm. I think she does
0:31:31 > 0:31:35well when she is out and about talking to people in communities. I
0:31:35 > 0:31:42think she is hidden away, culture, media and sport, other than an epic
0:31:42 > 0:31:46year is not the place you go to quite public or share woes and
0:31:46 > 0:31:51worries. I think she will prove a good listener. What we need to know
0:31:51 > 0:31:55is if she can step out of that technocratic role that she has had
0:31:55 > 0:31:59all of her career, junior minister at the Home Office, accountant
0:31:59 > 0:32:02before that. Then Department-of-Culture-mac. Often
0:32:02 > 0:32:10grinding through bits of media legislation very different to come
0:32:10 > 0:32:13into the situation that you are talking about tonight, how reactive
0:32:13 > 0:32:18and difficult that is and how far away it seems to be able to restore
0:32:18 > 0:32:21the best of that Good Friday Agreement. Get the executive working
0:32:21 > 0:32:25again on the grounds. She will not come into thinking she can wave a
0:32:25 > 0:32:29magic wand, but I have no doubt that she has been putting together more
0:32:29 > 0:32:32of a push once it was clear that James Brokenshire would be going for
0:32:32 > 0:32:37health reasons, it must be said. But either way, I think likely at some
0:32:37 > 0:32:43point there would be change.Finally and briefly, it is a confiscated
0:32:43 > 0:32:47political landscape, you have considered that yourself. I think
0:32:47 > 0:32:48the previous interviewee demonstrated that for anybody who
0:32:48 > 0:32:53did not realise it already. She has to to get to grips to that, maintain
0:32:53 > 0:32:57a relationship of Dublin, leading to the specifics of a complex Brexit,
0:32:57 > 0:33:02does she have the skill to do all of that and be the ringmaster that is
0:33:02 > 0:33:05needed at the moment?I will be surprised that in three months' time
0:33:05 > 0:33:09people say she has a golden touch and every thing is back to the place
0:33:09 > 0:33:13it should be. But what she does have is that close reading skills, she is
0:33:13 > 0:33:19not just any old accountant, she was a very senior tax adviser at a big
0:33:19 > 0:33:23accountancy company. She went from a pretty ordinary background to
0:33:23 > 0:33:29Imperial College. She is a very good mathematician, or the problem on the
0:33:29 > 0:33:33ground is political arithmetic rather than figures on a page. But I
0:33:33 > 0:33:36don't think she's scared of the detail that some people might find
0:33:36 > 0:33:40forbidding. Will she find the personality to go along with this
0:33:40 > 0:33:44difficult situation and make the best of it?We will find out in due
0:33:44 > 0:33:45course. Thank you for joining us.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48Now, new year and a new pairing in Commentators' Corner -
0:33:48 > 0:33:51though it's by no means their first appearance on the programme.
0:33:51 > 0:33:56Welcome to Allison Morris and Sam McBride.
0:33:56 > 0:34:00Thank you for joining us. We had an interesting conversation at the top
0:34:00 > 0:34:03of the programme, preventing anybody expected it to go quite the way it
0:34:03 > 0:34:07went. Where did you make of what was said and the body language between
0:34:07 > 0:34:12the representatives of Sinn Fein and DUP tonight? Tour was startling and
0:34:12 > 0:34:20unexpected. I hope it is healing.I cannot remember feeling as depressed
0:34:20 > 0:34:24and disheartened as I had in this last week. The events this last week
0:34:24 > 0:34:28have been so damaging to the victims the troubles, that just those from
0:34:28 > 0:34:33Kingsmills, but also as John O'Dowd pointed out it is another
0:34:33 > 0:34:36anniversary. These people have been kicked around like a political
0:34:36 > 0:34:42football. The politicians would be better helping them with their
0:34:42 > 0:34:45inquest and fight to justice rather than they would be to put each
0:34:45 > 0:34:48other's eyes out, it was said. What you saw from John O'Dowd
0:34:48 > 0:34:51specifically was that I think Sinn Fein have been really damaged and
0:34:51 > 0:34:58hurt by what has happened. Not because there wasn't Unionist
0:34:58 > 0:35:00outrage at Barry McElduff comments, that outrage from Republicans and
0:35:00 > 0:35:04nationalists as well. He could see that reflected in him it was a very
0:35:04 > 0:35:06sombre interview and I heard those words will go some way to healing
0:35:06 > 0:35:12the damage of the last week?It was unexpectedly sober. I think we all
0:35:12 > 0:35:15expected to see these two people locking horns tonight and escalating
0:35:15 > 0:35:20what has been a growing sense of people heading to the changes over
0:35:20 > 0:35:23the last year and the last week in particular. I think that was a
0:35:23 > 0:35:29deliberate starts tonight on both the DUP and Sinn Fein to try and
0:35:29 > 0:35:33de-escalated this. I think that does not in any way mean they are moving
0:35:33 > 0:35:36towards a deal, I think that is so far off that it is much more
0:35:36 > 0:35:41serious. It is about trying to get this to a stage where it is beyond
0:35:41 > 0:35:45politics and out in the community, people really this really angry at
0:35:45 > 0:35:52each other. I think there was a sense tonight of a responsibility
0:35:52 > 0:35:55from politicians, but this didn't start with politicians larking
0:35:55 > 0:35:59around. I think every body has a sense that that got out of hand at
0:35:59 > 0:36:04the very least.It doesn't necessarily mean we're inching to
0:36:04 > 0:36:08the restoration of devolution, it is not necessarily good news for Karen
0:36:08 > 0:36:12Bradley who comes into a new role at a very difficult time.An extremely
0:36:12 > 0:36:16difficult time. I think that telling comment was from Edwin Poots at the
0:36:16 > 0:36:19very end when he said, no matter what happens from now this will be a
0:36:19 > 0:36:24very difficult sale in my community. I don't think unionists are doing a
0:36:24 > 0:36:29deal at this time. We have had polarising elections. These events
0:36:29 > 0:36:33have shown just how far, and there was a very real danger of that
0:36:33 > 0:36:36spilling out and becoming nasty on the streets. I think it was good
0:36:36 > 0:36:40that both politicians took time to try and diffuser. Karen Bradley, I
0:36:40 > 0:36:44am sure she arrived on a very nasty and foggy day, and that probably set
0:36:44 > 0:36:48the mood for the rest of their tenure, I would imagine.If we do
0:36:48 > 0:36:52not adapt to devolution in the short-term, who knows what happens
0:36:52 > 0:36:57in the long term. What does happen in the short-term, direct rule
0:36:57 > 0:37:00sooner rather than later?Depends who you speak to. It is clear that
0:37:00 > 0:37:06that is what the DUP are itching for at point. I understand why the
0:37:06 > 0:37:10Republicans think they are not serious, but the DUP at serious at
0:37:10 > 0:37:14struggling to sell it to their supporters.Interesting stuff, thank
0:37:14 > 0:37:17you. Welcome to the team.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19That's it from The View for this week.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35am here on BBC One.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24Meantime, we all know that politics can be a tough business.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27But the Prime Minister of Thailand came up with a novel way of dealing
0:37:27 > 0:37:28with media enquiries this week.
0:37:28 > 0:37:30Maybe it'll catch on here, too?!
0:37:30 > 0:37:31Thoughts welcome, as ever, @bbctheview.
0:37:31 > 0:37:36Good night.
0:37:42 > 0:37:52MUSIC PLAYS