25/01/2018

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0:00:04 > 0:00:06Amid ever shifting political sands over Brexit

0:00:06 > 0:00:09and north-south relations, the leader of Fianna Fail

0:00:09 > 0:00:11is live in the studio - but will Micheal Martin ever

0:00:11 > 0:00:15lead his party into electoral battle here in Northern Ireland?

0:00:15 > 0:00:18Welcome to The View.

0:00:38 > 0:00:40Aside from a possible Fianna Fail move north,

0:00:40 > 0:00:43it's post-Brexit borders and now the discussion around a 12-week

0:00:43 > 0:00:46abortion limit which have led to a greater focus on the politics

0:00:46 > 0:00:48of the Republic.

0:00:48 > 0:00:51Micheal Martin caused shockwaves last week

0:00:51 > 0:00:54when he announced a dramatic change in his position on abortion.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57I'll be talking to him about that, the possibility of his party

0:00:57 > 0:01:00contesting elections here, and his plan for a special economic

0:01:00 > 0:01:04zone for Northern Ireland when the UK leaves the European Union.

0:01:04 > 0:01:06Also tonight, a brand new building in Ballykelly to house

0:01:06 > 0:01:09hundreds of civil servants.

0:01:09 > 0:01:11But will this major relocation scheme deliver the economic

0:01:11 > 0:01:17benefits it promised?

0:01:17 > 0:01:24There is a momentum here already, that this building will be filled in

0:01:24 > 0:01:29one form or another.Why expectation was that we'd have thousands of jobs

0:01:29 > 0:01:30here by now.

0:01:30 > 0:01:32And I've been talking to the Dead Ringers star who's

0:01:32 > 0:01:36trying to get to grips with two of our politicians in particular.

0:01:36 > 0:01:39It's all done through the smile and the eyes, dazzled by the lip gloss,

0:01:39 > 0:01:45it's very much like that.

0:01:46 > 0:01:48it's very much like that.And then Arleneshe's got that kind of

0:01:48 > 0:01:50comment you know...

0:01:50 > 0:01:52And hoping to make a good impression in Commentators' Corner,

0:01:52 > 0:01:54it's a welcome return for Newton Emerson

0:01:54 > 0:01:55and Deirdre Heenan.

0:01:55 > 0:01:56Hello.

0:01:56 > 0:01:58He's a party leader very firmly in the spotlight.

0:01:58 > 0:02:01It was only a week ago that Fianna Fail's Micheal Martin

0:02:01 > 0:02:03stood up in the Dail and declared his backing

0:02:03 > 0:02:06for the repeal of the eighth amendment, a move that sent shock

0:02:06 > 0:02:07waves through his own party.

0:02:07 > 0:02:09Tonight, he's in Belfast, where he's been meeting business

0:02:09 > 0:02:11leaders about Brexit.

0:02:11 > 0:02:18Welcome back to the programme.

0:02:18 > 0:02:19Thank you.

0:02:19 > 0:02:22I want to talk first about your new position on abortion.

0:02:22 > 0:02:24You've been identified throughout your career as coming

0:02:24 > 0:02:26from a pro-life perspective, but suddenly, in the debate over

0:02:26 > 0:02:29the repeal of the eighth amendment this day last week,

0:02:29 > 0:02:32you did a U-turn.

0:02:32 > 0:02:35Why?

0:02:35 > 0:02:42First of all, I did say before Christmas that I would read the

0:02:42 > 0:02:45presentations that were made to a Parliamentary committee, which had

0:02:45 > 0:02:50been sitting for a number of months, on this question, following an

0:02:50 > 0:02:52earlier consideration by its citizens Assembly, on the question

0:02:52 > 0:02:56of repealing this article in the constitution in relation to

0:02:56 > 0:03:03abortion. About two years ago, I would admit, mothers who had to go

0:03:03 > 0:03:09to England for terminations of their babies following a diagnosis of

0:03:09 > 0:03:14fatal faecal abnormality, they spoke to us about the harrowing trauma

0:03:14 > 0:03:17that that diagnosis represented for them, because they wanted to have

0:03:17 > 0:03:24their babies, but they got this diagnosis. They then went to England

0:03:24 > 0:03:29to bring the remains of their loved ones back, in all sorts of

0:03:29 > 0:03:33circumstances, and that was something I couldn't countenance

0:03:33 > 0:03:36future women having to go through if the opportunity came my way again as

0:03:36 > 0:03:41a legislator. One cannot address that in the republic without

0:03:41 > 0:03:47addressing that item, without repeating it, and likewise the issue

0:03:47 > 0:03:52of rape and incest. I have great difficulty forcing a woman to talk

0:03:52 > 0:03:58pregnancy as a legislator if she is pregnant as a result of rape or

0:03:58 > 0:04:03incest. The committee had a look presentations on that from

0:04:03 > 0:04:07obstetricians and gynaecologists and legal people, but what was

0:04:07 > 0:04:09interesting was the obstetricians, who were very clear that the

0:04:09 > 0:04:16existing constitutional framework in the republic acts as it causes harm

0:04:16 > 0:04:21women, and it has caused an, and in one particular instance, and maybe

0:04:21 > 0:04:26more that we don't know of, and equally it has the threat of

0:04:26 > 0:04:29criminal sanction hanging over them in terms of their clinical

0:04:29 > 0:04:36interventions that they might make in various difficult situations or

0:04:36 > 0:04:42traumatic situations. I think that criminalisation has to be removed.

0:04:42 > 0:04:44Some people were surprised and discomfited by your change of

0:04:44 > 0:04:49position. They have said they could live with that, they can understand

0:04:49 > 0:04:54how you can change your position with regards to fatal faecal

0:04:54 > 0:04:58abnormality and sexual crime, but you have also said you will support

0:04:58 > 0:05:03abortion up to 12 weeks within pregnancy, and that isn't with a

0:05:03 > 0:05:06caveat like you have been saying, it goes further than people would have

0:05:06 > 0:05:11expected you to go. So why did you reach that conclusion?That's a

0:05:11 > 0:05:16difficult part of this, because there is the deletion of the

0:05:16 > 0:05:20Constitution, and then one has to frame legislation if it was to be

0:05:20 > 0:05:25repealed.To be clear, you would support an amendment to legislation

0:05:25 > 0:05:32in the republic to allow abortion in cases up to 12 weeks.Yes, and we'd

0:05:32 > 0:05:36have to draft new legislation, that would be the consequence of the

0:05:36 > 0:05:41deletion of the article 30, but you asked me how the committee got to

0:05:41 > 0:05:47that conclusion.Well, how did you agree to sign up?I agreed with

0:05:47 > 0:05:54voluntary committee, their conclusions why, because it is a

0:05:54 > 0:05:58little presentation, their senior people saying, you can't legislate,

0:05:58 > 0:06:01there is no humane or legal way to deal with the rape or incest issues

0:06:01 > 0:06:07legally. And that is the point in early pregnancy but it's all very

0:06:07 > 0:06:12well for people to show empathy or to say, we don't want to force, and

0:06:12 > 0:06:16many people say that, but there is a logical follow through to that, and

0:06:16 > 0:06:20in addition one significant piece of evidence presented to the committee

0:06:20 > 0:06:25was this, that the prevalence of the abortion pill up to ten to 12 weeks,

0:06:25 > 0:06:32in the first trimester, has been a significant change in practice, and

0:06:32 > 0:06:37what you now have in the republic is unregulated, unrestricted access to

0:06:37 > 0:06:41abortion via that abortion pill, without medical supervision, and

0:06:41 > 0:06:47that's a big issue for doctors, but in some instances women come in with

0:06:47 > 0:06:50complications following accessing the abortion pill online. Our

0:06:50 > 0:06:58experience about that didn't make Ireland a country without abortion.

0:06:58 > 0:07:00Retaining it will not make it a country without abortion in the

0:07:00 > 0:07:06future. I will say this, we have freedom of conscience within our

0:07:06 > 0:07:10party. I respect people with different views...And there are

0:07:10 > 0:07:16others within your party...It's a personal issue of moral and ethical

0:07:16 > 0:07:21foundation, and we faced this issue in 2013 in the case of suicide that

0:07:21 > 0:07:26came out of the courts, facilitating abortion where a woman's life is in

0:07:26 > 0:07:29danger as a result of suicide. We said we would have a freedom of

0:07:29 > 0:07:33conscience vote on that, and that has followed, and other parties are

0:07:33 > 0:07:40now following us a with that.Is it fair to say that you have regarded

0:07:40 > 0:07:47yourself as a pro-life member of the Dail for many years, and you are no

0:07:47 > 0:07:51longer pro-life in your argument? Your critics would say you can no

0:07:51 > 0:07:58longer say you pro-life and agree with terminations in cases which

0:07:58 > 0:08:00don't relate to fatal faecal abnormality or sexual crime up to 12

0:08:00 > 0:08:08weeks. Those two positions are contradictory.I think certain

0:08:08 > 0:08:12groups have appropriated the term pro-life to themselves and anybody

0:08:12 > 0:08:15who doesn't agree with this absolutist position is no longer

0:08:15 > 0:08:20pro-life, but I don't accept that. All of my instincts are about

0:08:20 > 0:08:26pro-life, and in fact, I would argue, changing the law in itself is

0:08:26 > 0:08:31not going to turn the women of Ireland into abortionists.But it

0:08:31 > 0:08:38allows them to have abortion in a way they are not at the moment.We

0:08:38 > 0:08:42must trust women more, we must trust doctors more.But that is a

0:08:42 > 0:08:48pro-choice argument.It is pro-life and pro-choice in many respects. I

0:08:48 > 0:08:52don't believe that those are two labels. Of course you can be both,

0:08:52 > 0:09:00in the sense that the great advances in medical science...By definition,

0:09:00 > 0:09:05pro-life is not pro-choice. It may be the case that pro-choice people

0:09:05 > 0:09:08will accept that you don't always have to have a termination, of

0:09:08 > 0:09:12course, but a pro-life person will never accept somebody has a right to

0:09:12 > 0:09:17choose termination up to 12 weeks.I am simply saying, try and say that

0:09:17 > 0:09:21somebody who advocates a humane response to a very traumatic

0:09:21 > 0:09:27situation for women is somehow antilife or somebody not generally

0:09:27 > 0:09:31pro-life, I think that's wrong. It cuts to the kernel of it. They're

0:09:31 > 0:09:42great advances in obstetrics, and I'm a great believer in that, and it

0:09:42 > 0:09:47has changed the abortion debate significantly, compared to the 60s

0:09:47 > 0:09:50and 70s and what transpired in the UK. I believe in affirming that. And

0:09:50 > 0:09:57what the doctors said to the committee, where a baby is viable,

0:09:57 > 0:09:59we deliver in all circumstances, even if the mother's health is

0:09:59 > 0:10:06endangered. Doctors are not planning overnight into becoming antilife

0:10:06 > 0:10:09people or abortionists, and I equally said, we are always told

0:10:09 > 0:10:15that the floodgates would open, but it would usher in a new era, but I

0:10:15 > 0:10:19don't accept that argument any more and I think our culture is just as

0:10:19 > 0:10:24important as legal limits.You are trying to carve out an interesting

0:10:24 > 0:10:28space for your position, and I can imagine people who are pro-life not

0:10:28 > 0:10:32agreeing with a lot of what you are saying, and I'm sure that debate

0:10:32 > 0:10:37will continue in the campaign on the repeal of the amendment were you

0:10:37 > 0:10:42surprised at the reaction there was to the apparent U-turn on your part

0:10:42 > 0:10:47when you got up a week ago in the Dail and made that announcement? One

0:10:47 > 0:10:49unnamed TD in your party said he would be lynched for what you'd

0:10:49 > 0:10:55said.Welcome I wasn't, and we had a candid debate on it yesterday, and

0:10:55 > 0:10:58people fully respect my right to fully informed freedom of

0:10:58 > 0:11:05conscience.But your voice is different to everybody else.But

0:11:05 > 0:11:10people accept it in the party, and other members of the front bench are

0:11:10 > 0:11:12declared likewise, and others have declared oppositely. It's a good

0:11:12 > 0:11:16sign of a mature debate that we can have that approach, and the idea

0:11:16 > 0:11:21that you cannot impose uniform view on such a profound question is

0:11:21 > 0:11:26absurd in modern politics, and I think it's good that you have mutual

0:11:26 > 0:11:29respect, and I think once the debate is carried out in a calm way, that

0:11:29 > 0:11:34will be to the benefit of society generally, but I come back to it,

0:11:34 > 0:11:39since I made my statement at the Dail, many women and couples have

0:11:39 > 0:11:42shared their experiences with me. It's not as simple as people might

0:11:42 > 0:11:46suggest in terms of being pro-life or pro-choice, it's not like that.

0:11:46 > 0:11:52Nobody is suggesting is simple. There is a continuum of

0:11:52 > 0:11:54perspectives, and I respect people with different views to mine,

0:11:54 > 0:12:02genuinely.That's very interesting. I also want to talk about Brexit. We

0:12:02 > 0:12:06met some business leaders in Belfast today to discuss that issue, massive

0:12:06 > 0:12:10on the island of Ireland at the moment. Do you had to concede, is

0:12:10 > 0:12:15the leader of Fianna Fail, the main opposition party, that the Fine Gael

0:12:15 > 0:12:19government has handled the issue of a hard border in the Brexit debate

0:12:19 > 0:12:24pretty well?We worked with the government in the republic, all

0:12:24 > 0:12:28parties working together in a bipartisan way to get the best

0:12:28 > 0:12:31outcome for the island, so we don't see this as a competition. I am a

0:12:31 > 0:12:36member of the group in Europe, the Liberal Democrats, and I work with

0:12:36 > 0:12:44the prime ministers of Holland and even posh that, representing the EU.

0:12:44 > 0:12:49We work with the Taoiseach.So everybody is saying that Leo

0:12:49 > 0:12:54Varadkar is doing a good job.We welcome the first phase of the talks

0:12:54 > 0:12:57in relation to Brexit, although it is the first phase and there is some

0:12:57 > 0:13:01kicking of the count down the road, a degree of things that can't be

0:13:01 > 0:13:06reconciled. The commitment from the British government, that there will

0:13:06 > 0:13:11not be a border. There is a lot of fleshing out to be done yet, and I

0:13:11 > 0:13:17had concerns about the megaphone nature of the announcement.Do you

0:13:17 > 0:13:23think it was a bit ill-advised of Leo Varadkar to adopt such an

0:13:23 > 0:13:26uncompromising position with the UK on Brexit?The position with written

0:13:26 > 0:13:31has been that both governments have been saying all along that we don't

0:13:31 > 0:13:37want a border. -- the position with Britain. But the difficulty is to

0:13:37 > 0:13:40reconcile that with the British desire to leave the customs union

0:13:40 > 0:13:45and single market. I agree with the Irish government position, but we

0:13:45 > 0:13:50were really dismayed to see the UK Government saying they wanted to

0:13:50 > 0:13:53come out of the customs union and single market, because that is

0:13:53 > 0:13:58damaging to Britain and the island of Ireland, Northern Ireland and the

0:13:58 > 0:14:01republic, so we need good east-west trading relationships with Britain,

0:14:01 > 0:14:06and a tariff free relationship north and south on this island, and that

0:14:06 > 0:14:15is our entire, unified focus in the republic. We meet together as

0:14:15 > 0:14:21parties in the republic on this, to deal with Brexit.

0:14:21 > 0:14:26Will that persuade Arlene Foster? Annette and I put my point of view

0:14:26 > 0:14:31towards that in relation to Brexit and in my view there should be a

0:14:31 > 0:14:36special economic zone. She didn't rule it out.She is not desperately

0:14:36 > 0:14:41well disposed towards it.The battle -- the bottom line is that I met

0:14:41 > 0:14:48with the Institute of directors today and they wonder why Northern

0:14:48 > 0:14:53Ireland doesn't have a government at time of great need. To me Brexit

0:14:53 > 0:14:56demands the restoration of the executive and the institutions and

0:14:56 > 0:15:01there is an obligation on Arlene Foster DUP and Sinn Fein to put

0:15:01 > 0:15:06aside their differences and restore the executive.IU hopeful that will

0:15:06 > 0:15:12happen? The talks started yesterday. I am hopeful.A lot of people are

0:15:12 > 0:15:17hopeful.I have been involved in the talks myself as a former Foreign

0:15:17 > 0:15:22Minister and I get the sense they have agreed to go back and it is

0:15:22 > 0:15:26imperative that they do. I can think of no greater threat to Northern

0:15:26 > 0:15:29Ireland businesses, jobs and farming Danny Briggs it. We hope Britain and

0:15:29 > 0:15:33the EU can get it sorted ultimately and the British government can get a

0:15:33 > 0:15:38coherent response to the issue but really, if we accept that, and all

0:15:38 > 0:15:42the economic analysis is negative about Brexit, and we are about

0:15:42 > 0:15:49limiting the damage that Brexit can cause? I have met ministers from

0:15:49 > 0:15:55Scotland and Wales about this and Northern Ireland has no voice in the

0:15:55 > 0:15:59government.What is the talks on devolution fail and we look at the

0:15:59 > 0:16:05imposition of direct rule.I don't want to contemplate it. It would be

0:16:05 > 0:16:09very serious and very grave for us. It would represent a failure on the

0:16:09 > 0:16:13half of the two main parties, particularly on the 20th anniversary

0:16:13 > 0:16:16of the Good Friday Agreement which was such a good and dynamic

0:16:16 > 0:16:25agreement. I was at a launch of a book reaching out to America and

0:16:25 > 0:16:29they spoke about the nugget of peace that the Good Friday Agreement gave

0:16:29 > 0:16:34us and we shouldn't take it for granted. On the 20th anniversary

0:16:34 > 0:16:37year of the Good Friday Agreement I think there is an obligation on the

0:16:37 > 0:16:40parties really to put their differences aside. I don't think

0:16:40 > 0:16:45there was a whole lot between them. This is a critical question, if

0:16:45 > 0:16:49there is a return to direct rule, should there be a beefed up rule for

0:16:49 > 0:17:00Dublin -- role for Dublin in that? Doubler will have a constant

0:17:00 > 0:17:02Doubler will have a constant -- contemplative role. The bottom line

0:17:02 > 0:17:06is the Good Friday Agreement is there. There was a consultative role

0:17:06 > 0:17:13out the and it isn't area that neither government wants to go down.

0:17:13 > 0:17:16The British government and the Republic do not want to get down

0:17:16 > 0:17:20there Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair had a particular form of words for

0:17:20 > 0:17:24that scenario and it would create difficulties, particularly with

0:17:24 > 0:17:28Brexit tied into it because we have real concerns in Republic about

0:17:28 > 0:17:32citizens in Northern Ireland who want to remain part of the European

0:17:32 > 0:17:35Union and should because of the Good Friday Agreement being part of the

0:17:35 > 0:17:41EU framework so I think it is important that parties knuckle down.

0:17:41 > 0:17:46I meet people in the North who are impatient with the politicians and

0:17:46 > 0:17:48they want people to work on the bread-and-butter issues that affect

0:17:48 > 0:17:54them in their daily lives.I mentioned in the introduction that

0:17:54 > 0:17:59you intend to run Fiona Foyle candidates to contest council

0:17:59 > 0:18:03elections in Northern Ireland?That remains a target for the party. We

0:18:03 > 0:18:07may have events in the public before that but we do not know that for

0:18:07 > 0:18:16definite.Would you be worrying Fianna Fail candidates against SDP

0:18:16 > 0:18:23or after you have so steamed the party? We have madeno decisions of

0:18:23 > 0:18:26that time at all.But you win high-level talks with the SDLP about

0:18:26 > 0:18:32merging?We have been very close to them for many years and many of our

0:18:32 > 0:18:39members have canvassed for their members for many years.Would you

0:18:39 > 0:18:46like to be the member -- leader of Dayna fail in the North?No, we work

0:18:46 > 0:18:52with them in terms of a common agenda in the island of Ireland and

0:18:52 > 0:19:00in terms of the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. It is not

0:19:00 > 0:19:06my dream.In 2019 you would run against the SDLP?To the target for

0:19:06 > 0:19:11us to run in 2019 but the precise format that would take is still in

0:19:11 > 0:19:15question.The relationship with Colum Eastwood 's a discussion

0:19:15 > 0:19:19between those parties, where they headed?I think you are reading

0:19:19 > 0:19:23maybe too much into it at this particular stage. What I am saying

0:19:23 > 0:19:27is historically there has been ongoing engagement between the two

0:19:27 > 0:19:32parties and we go to each other's areas and canvas particularly in the

0:19:32 > 0:19:37border counties and that will continue.A senior member of your

0:19:37 > 0:19:45party says there should be a merger sooner rather than later.I think it

0:19:45 > 0:19:48is far easier to say something like that then do something like that and

0:19:48 > 0:19:52I think one has to be clearly sensitive to a whole lot of issues

0:19:52 > 0:19:56and first of all I would say that the SDLP is a party that has its own

0:19:56 > 0:20:02identity and independence and I will not say anything tonight that would

0:20:02 > 0:20:06be insensitive to that.Thank you very much and good to talk to you.

0:20:06 > 0:20:11Are you for joining us on the programme tonight.

0:20:11 > 0:20:13Stormont may be shut down, but that hasn't stopped one

0:20:13 > 0:20:15of the biggest redeployments of civil servants

0:20:15 > 0:20:16in Northern Ireland.

0:20:16 > 0:20:18The first batch, around 240, are getting ready to move

0:20:18 > 0:20:21into their new offices in Ballykelly, the headquarters

0:20:21 > 0:20:22for the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs.

0:20:22 > 0:20:25But a trade union official says the government will struggle

0:20:25 > 0:20:26to fill the building.

0:20:26 > 0:20:29So what happened to the grand plans for up to 800 staff

0:20:29 > 0:20:30to make the big move?

0:20:30 > 0:20:36Here's Enda McClafferty.

0:20:36 > 0:20:40Hundreds of civil servants are on the move, leaving Belfast behind and

0:20:40 > 0:20:45heading for the North West. It has been a journey with many twists and

0:20:45 > 0:20:51turns. It has been worth it for this man who, for 12 years, spent four

0:20:51 > 0:20:57hours a day travelling to and from work.Anybody who has travelled from

0:20:57 > 0:21:05Derry to Belfast knows that road. Delays at various places, you come

0:21:05 > 0:21:09down the hill section once you have done that you are in Belfast city

0:21:09 > 0:21:15centre and you have to cope with that traffic as well.No more. This

0:21:15 > 0:21:20will be his new destination, on the former Army base in Ballykelly. This

0:21:20 > 0:21:25impressive building can hold up to 600 workers. Right now there are

0:21:25 > 0:21:32plans to move 240 in by March, and a further 80 in three years. The union

0:21:32 > 0:21:38involved in the move fears it may never reach full capacity.For a

0:21:38 > 0:21:41number of reasons, first of all no one else has been identified to

0:21:41 > 0:21:45Myfanwy are seen massive cuts in the public service and in the next few

0:21:45 > 0:21:49financial years those cuts will be massive and there will be less jobs

0:21:49 > 0:21:53available to be transferred.The senior civil servant in charge of

0:21:53 > 0:21:57the move has no such concerns.The decision is only been taken by the

0:21:57 > 0:22:01executive that this headquarters building will be built and filled

0:22:01 > 0:22:05with 600 people. I mentioned earlier a need for a review that will

0:22:05 > 0:22:08determine our options and it will be beneficial to have investors in

0:22:08 > 0:22:13place to consider those options but there is a momentum here already

0:22:13 > 0:22:19that this building will be filled in one form or the other and it will be

0:22:19 > 0:22:26for them to determine how they will do so in due course.The move from

0:22:26 > 0:22:30Belfast Ballykelly has had more than one driver. We have also had a

0:22:30 > 0:22:35change in the direction of travel. Michelle O'Neill started the process

0:22:35 > 0:22:39before being replaced as agriculture minister by the DUP 's Michelle

0:22:39 > 0:22:43McIlveen. Worried about the loss of experienced staff, the DUP

0:22:43 > 0:22:48ministered changed the plan and opened up the process to other

0:22:48 > 0:22:53departments, and that wasn't the only change, according to this MLA.

0:22:53 > 0:22:59240 jobs is a lot sure of the 800 that initially was promised, but

0:22:59 > 0:23:05even if it was to rise to 320, that doesn't happen until 2023. Remember,

0:23:05 > 0:23:12this is just one tiny part of this whole estate. 700 acres. My

0:23:12 > 0:23:15expectation, and many others was, we would have thousands of jobs created

0:23:15 > 0:23:21here by now. There is none.More than 90% of those moving here

0:23:21 > 0:23:24already live in the north-west and that is why there have been

0:23:24 > 0:23:28questions about how much extra revenue will be generated locally.

0:23:28 > 0:23:34That is not how this MLA sees it.It is taking a rural department out of

0:23:34 > 0:23:38an urban setting in Belfast are making it accessible to urban

0:23:38 > 0:23:42communities and offering people in rural communities like Northwest the

0:23:42 > 0:23:45opportunity to access high quality public sector jobs in their own

0:23:45 > 0:23:50areas. It is disappointing that some, like the SDLP, are criticising

0:23:50 > 0:23:55what is essentially a very positive measure in addressing regional

0:23:55 > 0:23:59economic imbalance.The cost of the original project is around £33

0:23:59 > 0:24:06million and that is supposedly good value for money.When you look at

0:24:06 > 0:24:09both the private sector and the public sector, it is. I would expect

0:24:09 > 0:24:15800 to 1000 jobs, and that would be a huge factor in terms of the

0:24:15 > 0:24:18north-west in creating better employment opportunities.The

0:24:18 > 0:24:22building is due to open in March but who will cut the ribbon? A minister

0:24:22 > 0:24:26from Stormont or maybe a redeployed minister travelling away from

0:24:26 > 0:24:32London? It is travel plans for workers which matter most right now.

0:24:32 > 0:24:38I have checked the route, it is 20 minutes from here to the front door

0:24:38 > 0:24:42in Ballykelly. My commute is going to change from two hours to get to

0:24:42 > 0:24:45work to 20 minutes to get to work and that is going to make such a

0:24:45 > 0:24:53difference to my life.

0:24:59 > 0:25:00Enda McClafferty reporting.

0:25:00 > 0:25:03Now, Theresa May, Angela Merkel and Nicola Sturgeon are just three

0:25:03 > 0:25:06examples of women who have risen to the top of their political field.

0:25:06 > 0:25:08But they are also part of the repertoire of

0:25:08 > 0:25:11the impressionist Jan Ravens, who's a stalwart of the TV and radio

0:25:11 > 0:25:12programme Dead Ringers.

0:25:12 > 0:25:15She was in Belfast this week with her one-woman show,

0:25:15 > 0:25:17and newly included in her portfolio of impressions are Arlene Foster

0:25:17 > 0:25:18and Michelle O'Neill.

0:25:18 > 0:25:22I went along to meet her after the show and I asked her why

0:25:22 > 0:25:28she calls it A Difficult Woman?

0:25:28 > 0:25:32It is several things. It is the idea of, do you have to be a difficult

0:25:32 > 0:25:36woman in order to be successful? In what way is a successful woman

0:25:36 > 0:25:40difficult, and how much is that to do with how she is perceived as

0:25:40 > 0:25:45opposed to what she actually is? People often say, she is very

0:25:45 > 0:25:49ambitious, very ambitious. You think, yes, what is wrong with that?

0:25:49 > 0:25:54It is used as a pejorative term in relation to a woman. It was to do

0:25:54 > 0:26:00with that perception.

0:26:02 > 0:26:03with that perception.You have timed it perfectly as a female

0:26:03 > 0:26:06impressionist at a time when so many women are so visible within the

0:26:06 > 0:26:09political world, and none more so than Theresa May. She must be a gift

0:26:09 > 0:26:12from heaven from your point of view. She is a gift but I must say which

0:26:12 > 0:26:15was Home Secretary I used to say to the guys on dead ringers that we

0:26:15 > 0:26:20have to do her because she is Home Secretary and she is in such a

0:26:20 > 0:26:23powerful position and we never do anything about her, but the reason

0:26:23 > 0:26:27we never did anything was that she never said anything. It wasn't

0:26:27 > 0:26:33really until she came out on the steps of Downing Street and did that

0:26:33 > 0:26:36sort of Miliband -esque speech about how she was going to save the world,

0:26:36 > 0:26:42you know, the, did you know that if you are born poor, you will die up

0:26:42 > 0:26:46to four years earlier than other people? And it was that sort of dip

0:26:46 > 0:26:51low phonic, that whole thing of doing your own descant, like two

0:26:51 > 0:26:55voices of the same time, and have Ralph -- her mouth is very often

0:26:55 > 0:27:01held in a position of tension at the same time and you get the impression

0:27:01 > 0:27:06she never relaxes or has a laugh. She probably does, she is a human

0:27:06 > 0:27:10being, but it is almost like she is embarrassed by what she is saying.

0:27:10 > 0:27:14On the other side of the house you have Diane Abbott. Is she a star

0:27:14 > 0:27:19performer from your point of view for Labour?I think Diane Abbott is

0:27:19 > 0:27:24very much a sort of character, in that she always seems like she is

0:27:24 > 0:27:29going to ball straight back to sleep, and, you know, that someone

0:27:29 > 0:27:36has just woken her up and, you know, I think she is somebody that

0:27:36 > 0:27:40historically they have wheeled out and I think she is very keen on

0:27:40 > 0:27:45being on the telly and I think so sometimes Diane Abbott isn't quite

0:27:45 > 0:27:53maybe as well briefed as she might be and you get this kind of, it will

0:27:53 > 0:28:00cost... It will cost... And it is, Diane... You are the Shadow Home

0:28:00 > 0:28:05Secretary and you should have the police figures!We have two

0:28:05 > 0:28:08formidable women here in Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill. You

0:28:08 > 0:28:12have started to think about Michelle O'Neill?I started to think about

0:28:12 > 0:28:20her and then look but I couldn't actually... I am sorry, what?Was at

0:28:20 > 0:28:25the speed that struck you first? There are no vowels, or consonants.

0:28:25 > 0:28:37She would say rule as though it was just our, R, L. There are no vowels.

0:28:37 > 0:28:44It is very staccato and very rapid fire and very staccato and it is all

0:28:44 > 0:28:48done through the style and the wee eyes and the smile and you're

0:28:48 > 0:28:54dazzled by the lip gloss and it is very much like that.And then

0:28:54 > 0:29:00Arlene.She does not have a smile in her. She doesn't seem to have smile

0:29:00 > 0:29:04within her range, does she? She is, like, you know, I think she looks

0:29:04 > 0:29:09like a character played by Harry Enfield so, like, it is all sort of

0:29:09 > 0:29:15like really miserable. I am not surprise she is miserable. I mean, I

0:29:15 > 0:29:20couldn't... I knew some baked things about the heating initiative scandal

0:29:20 > 0:29:23but I sort of read a bit about it since coming here and it is

0:29:23 > 0:29:29absolutely unbelievable.It is complicated, that is the show. Tier

0:29:29 > 0:29:34it is very complicated. I find the politics of Ireland so interesting

0:29:34 > 0:29:37but until this election when theDUP came into the British political

0:29:37 > 0:29:43picture very much soap and Theresa May, you know, banging her £1

0:29:43 > 0:29:48million, she must've thought all her Christmases came at once.When you

0:29:48 > 0:29:52set out to do a show like this there are material and impressions that

0:29:52 > 0:29:55you have to balance but in terms of what you actually do and what you

0:29:55 > 0:30:02make fun of, are you trying to entertain or feed into very serious

0:30:02 > 0:30:07political debate about Brexit and American politics?

0:30:07 > 0:30:12Satire isn't going to bring down the government but it can change

0:30:12 > 0:30:18perceptions, and I do believe quite passionately in satire as a way of

0:30:18 > 0:30:24asking people to look at things in a different way. And, I mean, the most

0:30:24 > 0:30:28famous example of satire changing people's perceptions is the David

0:30:28 > 0:30:34steel and David Owen on spitting image, where David steel used to

0:30:34 > 0:30:39complain that he was the little one in David Allen's pocket, which

0:30:39 > 0:30:42alters people's perceptions of him forever, and maybe it did, maybe it

0:30:42 > 0:30:49didn't, but I do think that comedy is a useful way to get things, to

0:30:49 > 0:30:55get people to look at things maybe in a way they hadn't before, and to

0:30:55 > 0:30:58sort of show that maybe things aren't black and white, that there

0:30:58 > 0:31:05are grey areas.You are Angela Merkel -- your Angela Merkel in the

0:31:05 > 0:31:10show says she will give Theresa May until next Tuesday, I think it is.

0:31:10 > 0:31:15You will be hoping Theresa May stays at Number Ten as long as possible?

0:31:15 > 0:31:22Yes, I have a vested interest! Fingers crossed! Jan Ravens, keeping

0:31:22 > 0:31:26her fingers crossed at Theresa May.

0:31:26 > 0:31:28and thanks to everyone at the Harp Bar for allowing us

0:31:28 > 0:31:30to film that interview earlier in the week.

0:31:30 > 0:31:32And with that, it's time for tonight's commentators

0:31:32 > 0:31:34to have their say, so welcome back Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan.

0:31:34 > 0:31:39I want to talk about Micheal Martin and abortion first of all. An

0:31:39 > 0:31:44interesting space he was trying to carve out for his position, very

0:31:44 > 0:31:46different to that which is felt throughout his political career up

0:31:46 > 0:31:52to now.It is a different position, even though he was saying it really

0:31:52 > 0:31:57isn't, and he is trying to finesse that space between pro-life and

0:31:57 > 0:32:01pro-choice, and you can imagine people shouting at the television,

0:32:01 > 0:32:04saying, that's not pro-life, that's not pro-choice. I think the

0:32:04 > 0:32:07interesting thing is that last we are having some sort of debate

0:32:07 > 0:32:13around abortion, which particularly male politicians in the south have

0:32:13 > 0:32:16avoided for years, so there is a debate, he is talking about looking

0:32:16 > 0:32:22at evidence and reviewing evidence and looking at his position, and

0:32:22 > 0:32:24probably he realises that, in Ireland, attitudes have changed and

0:32:24 > 0:32:28science has changed, and that will play quite well with his

0:32:28 > 0:32:33metropolitan constituents in Dublin, and it will still appeal to the

0:32:33 > 0:32:37rural part of his party. I think the issue is the announced it in the

0:32:37 > 0:32:42house without any discussion with his party, and he is the leader, and

0:32:42 > 0:32:45that's not what you would expect.He also admitted publicly there to that

0:32:45 > 0:32:50target of running Fianna Fail candidates in the council elections

0:32:50 > 0:32:55in Northern Ireland next year.That will be the first send any of us

0:32:55 > 0:32:59have that Fianna Fail has arrived, even though this has been a plan for

0:32:59 > 0:33:05years.Do you think it will happen? He said it will but there is little

0:33:05 > 0:33:09public sense of the ground work being put in full there is work

0:33:09 > 0:33:14being put in in talking to the SDLP, but he hasn't really prepared the

0:33:14 > 0:33:19electorate for its arrival. It feels like sucking it and seeing. It feels

0:33:19 > 0:33:23like they don't appreciate the extent to which it is a generational

0:33:23 > 0:33:27project to build a party, you can't just glad and say, we've arrived,

0:33:27 > 0:33:31and expect a round bottles.And not talking about a merger with the

0:33:31 > 0:33:37SDLP.Yes, and they are in danger of making themselves look like a tiny

0:33:37 > 0:33:43Unionist party, or the GB parties when they arrived here, and odd

0:33:43 > 0:33:49fluke.We will see that talks deadline moving, I think, because

0:33:49 > 0:33:52there hasn't been ground work, and you can't appear overnight with a

0:33:52 > 0:33:57party, with no activists or structure or system, and there was

0:33:57 > 0:34:01that question about the SDLP, because he doesn't want to cause

0:34:01 > 0:34:05upset.Yes, and he was open about that. He also said Brexit demands

0:34:05 > 0:34:11the restoration of the executive briefly. What chance?They will not

0:34:11 > 0:34:16be a deal by February the 7th. These talks are set up for Easter, as far

0:34:16 > 0:34:23as I can see. The Brexit fear... They should put pressure on the

0:34:23 > 0:34:25parties.

0:34:25 > 0:34:28That's it from The View for this week.

0:34:28 > 0:34:31Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One,

0:34:31 > 0:34:34but we leave you with one of Jan Raven's best impressions.

0:34:34 > 0:34:36She admits she struggles with Arlene Foster's voice,

0:34:36 > 0:34:38but there's no denying she has the Prime Minister's nailed.

0:34:38 > 0:34:39Good night.

0:34:39 > 0:34:45AS THERESA MAY:I will never forget that historic journey to Buckingham

0:34:45 > 0:34:48Palace, where Her Majesty the Queen asked me to form a new government,

0:34:48 > 0:34:54and Prince Philip asked me to make him a cup of tea, and don't forget

0:34:54 > 0:34:57the hobnobs, sweetheart. I was delighted to accept both requests. I

0:34:57 > 0:35:03want to help those people who are just about getting by, those people

0:35:03 > 0:35:08whose houses may be worth less than half £1 million, people who can't

0:35:08 > 0:35:15afford to go on skiing holidays more than once a year. I am not going to

0:35:15 > 0:35:17be giving a running commentary on Brexit negotiations. I have left

0:35:17 > 0:35:23David Davis and Boris Johnson in charge. As the Chuckle Brothers were

0:35:23 > 0:35:25busy.