0:00:06 > 0:00:08Are we at a critical stage tonight in the negotiations
0:00:08 > 0:00:12to get Stormont back?
0:00:12 > 0:00:14There's speculation there could be signs of movement on the hill.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16We'll be trying to piece the jigsaw together.
0:00:16 > 0:00:23Welcome to The View.
0:00:35 > 0:00:36Also tonight:
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Brexit is back on the agenda big time
0:00:39 > 0:00:42and the border issue is once again one of the major sticking points.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45The DUP's Ian Paisley has called for a "no surrender" approach
0:00:45 > 0:00:49to the UK's neotiations with the EU, but is it really that simple?
0:00:49 > 0:00:52The North Antrim MP is with me, and in our Foyle studio
0:00:52 > 0:00:54is the former SDLP leader, Mark Durkan.
0:00:54 > 0:01:01Plus 60 years on, a row over who inspired the civil rights campaign.
0:01:01 > 0:01:06-- 50 years on.
0:01:06 > 0:01:12I think that the article that Declan Kearney Road is delusional. When I
0:01:12 > 0:01:18say that, I say it is very little basis in reality, in fact. Or into
0:01:18 > 0:01:24humans. The reality is that Republican
0:01:24 > 0:01:27activists were involved directly with many others in the formation of
0:01:27 > 0:01:29the civil rights movement.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31And taking ownership of Commentators' Corner this week -
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Fionnuala O Connor and Alex Kane.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36But first tonight, the two main parties have been
0:01:36 > 0:01:40involved in talks this evening at Stormont, with the prospect
0:01:40 > 0:01:42of a second five-party round-table session tomorrow.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45But are we any closer to a deal being done?
0:01:45 > 0:01:48There have been some optimistic noises from the Secretary of State,
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Karen Bradley, and the Tanaiste, Simon Coveney, and talk
0:01:50 > 0:01:53of an agreement "within days".
0:01:53 > 0:01:55So what are the chances?
0:01:55 > 0:01:57With me now is our political correspondent Enda McClafferty.
0:01:57 > 0:02:05Well, Enda, speculation that a deal could be
0:02:10 > 0:02:12-- speculation that Theresa May like the positioning herself to get
0:02:12 > 0:02:18involved.She has been criticised in the past for having a hands-off
0:02:18 > 0:02:24approach to the talks in Northern Ireland. Response, Downing Street
0:02:24 > 0:02:29have insisted that she was fully briefed by the Secretary of State
0:02:29 > 0:02:31for Northern Ireland and there was money for calm. She has now put this
0:02:31 > 0:02:37out as an option. -- there was no need for her to come. If it is felt
0:02:37 > 0:02:42that she is going to be able to nudge DUP and Sinn Fein closer
0:02:42 > 0:02:47together, she might come. There is no sense outside the circle that we
0:02:47 > 0:02:52are close to this point, or any kind of intervention from Downing Street,
0:02:52 > 0:02:59or doctrine, wiping the bodies -- or Dublin might bring the parties to a
0:02:59 > 0:03:08point unless the two parties agree to hammer this out.We had a guess
0:03:08 > 0:03:12clusters denied that called for Theresa May to be involved. To be
0:03:12 > 0:03:17clear, we are saying she's willing to get involved if that is going to
0:03:17 > 0:03:21help the process forward. We are not saying she's about to get involved.
0:03:21 > 0:03:27We need to be clear about that. Leo Varadkar has set in the past 30 and
0:03:27 > 0:03:30the Prime Minister promoted with a shoulder to the wheel if they felt
0:03:30 > 0:03:36that would help the process. We are not at this point yet. -- the Prime
0:03:36 > 0:03:40Minister would put their shoulders to the real. It is being talked
0:03:40 > 0:03:45about in Downing Street, though. Before it from both the DUP and Sinn
0:03:45 > 0:03:50Fein today. The positions seem to be that progress has been made but
0:03:50 > 0:03:53significant gaps remain. Before it is virtually every day now for
0:03:53 > 0:03:58weeks.That has been the position all along because this process has
0:03:58 > 0:04:02dragged on for more than a year. We are in the place now where we were
0:04:02 > 0:04:07last November when we were getting positive sounds from the edges of
0:04:07 > 0:04:13the talks process. Central to this, at the heart of this, is a
0:04:13 > 0:04:16stand-alone Irish language act. Sinn Fein says there will be no deal
0:04:16 > 0:04:19unless there is a stand-alone Irishman would act and we know that
0:04:19 > 0:04:26the DUP's position says Dimbleby no deal if it involves a stand-alone
0:04:26 > 0:04:31Irishman language act. -- says there will be no deal. They keep leaving
0:04:31 > 0:04:38the elephant out of any talks, and this is when things fall apart, when
0:04:38 > 0:04:43they talk about the Irish language act. We haven't reached this crucial
0:04:43 > 0:04:52stage yet.We were supposed to have five party talks today. Karen
0:04:52 > 0:04:57Bradley push the to tomorrow. We think this will happen tomorrow, not
0:04:57 > 0:05:01exactly sure. -- pushed them back to tomorrow. The three smaller parties
0:05:01 > 0:05:07are pretty cheesed off with the way they've been treated recently.They
0:05:07 > 0:05:11are being treated like political cheerleaders. They are not going to
0:05:11 > 0:05:14have any impact on the final result of this political gain. It is
0:05:14 > 0:05:20frustrating and heard that echoed this week by Colum Eastwood from the
0:05:20 > 0:05:23still be that he wasn't interested in getting involved in some kind of
0:05:23 > 0:05:29pretend process. -- Colum Eastwood who said this week that he wasn't
0:05:29 > 0:05:36interested.We've missed another milestone because David Stirling,
0:05:36 > 0:05:39the head of the civil service that he needed clarity on a budget by
0:05:39 > 0:05:48today.Sterling. Nigel Dodds has said that on the other side of the
0:05:48 > 0:05:51Westminster recessed, we are talking up to a fortnight away. He thinks
0:05:51 > 0:05:56that the Secretary of State, Karen Bradley, should press ahead with his
0:05:56 > 0:06:03budget plans. Great pressure behind the scenes felt like all sin. Civil
0:06:03 > 0:06:11servants. -- felt by all civil servants.
0:06:11 > 0:06:12Enda, thank you.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15It's time for the Government at Westminster to get tougher
0:06:15 > 0:06:17with the European Union and adopt a "no surrender" policy.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20That's the view of the DUP's Ian Paisley, at least.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22Accusing Brussels of blackmail and bullying, an impassioned
0:06:22 > 0:06:24Mr Paisley invoked the spirit of unionism to drive his point home
0:06:24 > 0:06:26during Northern Ireland Questions at Westminster yesterday.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29And while it wasn't perhaps the milestone that Karen Bradley had
0:06:29 > 0:06:30originally predicted, it did have its moments
0:06:30 > 0:06:31of rhetorical flourish.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Now that the new team has had a chance to find a way around,
0:06:34 > 0:06:38particularly the border, and they study the issue of the electronic
0:06:38 > 0:06:42border, do they believe that such a furniture is feasible or is it just
0:06:42 > 0:06:45a fantasy? The honourable gentleman refers to
0:06:45 > 0:06:49the matter of the border. We are determined they will be no new
0:06:49 > 0:06:52physical infrastructure at the border and we will maintain things
0:06:52 > 0:06:55like the Common Travel Area, which has been in existence since well
0:06:55 > 0:07:01before the EU.Is he not concerned about the friction in relationships
0:07:01 > 0:07:05between the UK Government and the Irish Republic and what comment as
0:07:05 > 0:07:07he got to make about the threat issued by the Foreign Minister
0:07:07 > 0:07:12yesterday that he will block negotiations if it does not get
0:07:12 > 0:07:21legislation to force the Northern Ireland Assembly to introduce EU
0:07:21 > 0:07:24regulations?As far as our relationship with rather long, it
0:07:24 > 0:07:29goes back to entries. Trade, geography, history, and so on. We
0:07:29 > 0:07:31have an excellent working relationship with Northern Ireland.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Does he agree that it's about time that the Government chemistry did no
0:07:35 > 0:07:42surrender attitude to the EU talks? -- demonstrated a no surrender.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47Fights, passion to register, everything. Stand up to them, man,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50stand up to the EU. Let's get on with leaving the EU.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Ian Paisley in full flow there, and he's with me in studio now.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56And joining us from our Foyle studio is the former leader
0:07:56 > 0:07:57of the SDLP, Mark Durkan.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Ian Paisley, tell me more about this "no surrender" attitude
0:08:00 > 0:08:01you were calling for there.
0:08:01 > 0:08:02How's that going to work exactly?
0:08:02 > 0:08:08I think most people are sick, sore and tired by the Government being
0:08:08 > 0:08:14sold, if you like, pushed around during the Brexit negotiations.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Which is people have decided that we will leave the EU, all of the assets
0:08:18 > 0:08:25we control, from fisheries, waters, trading benefit, that all of that
0:08:25 > 0:08:28should be turned to our advantage. If we leave on the basis of a bad
0:08:28 > 0:08:34deal and they cannot -- and I have not advocating one, if we leave on
0:08:34 > 0:08:40the basis that it is not a deal in place, the EU loses just as much as
0:08:40 > 0:08:46ours and the Republic of Ireland loses the most. The British
0:08:46 > 0:08:50Government at positive about this and say they will get the best deal
0:08:50 > 0:08:54possible.That is what the British Government has been sent. Theresa
0:08:54 > 0:08:57May clarified today that the UK is leading the single market and the
0:08:57 > 0:09:01customs union.What more do you want? I have no objection to what
0:09:01 > 0:09:09you said. We had Mr Barnier earlier this week. The fight is a good
0:09:09 > 0:09:13start, the pressure that was going to be applied and that UK had taken
0:09:13 > 0:09:19the wrong position. They are trying to chastise the UK for treating a
0:09:19 > 0:09:26determined position to leave the EU. It is not Michel Barnier's job to
0:09:26 > 0:09:30sit quietly because of what you think.It is perfectly valid for him
0:09:30 > 0:09:35to make the argument that he wishes that the UK would not leave.He is
0:09:35 > 0:09:41not entitled.He has no responsibility to make it easy for
0:09:41 > 0:09:46the UK to leave.He has the right to make sure that the rest of the
0:09:46 > 0:09:51missions are argued for. But he has no right to saying that he objects
0:09:51 > 0:09:55to the British taking a particular decision. That has been the attitude
0:09:55 > 0:09:58of the EU towards Britain. They look at other countries might decide to
0:09:58 > 0:10:02leave after the UK lease. That's what frightens them the most. I
0:10:02 > 0:10:08think they are trying to put the frighteners on other countries to
0:10:08 > 0:10:14the east, that they should not leave the earful.Does Michel Barnier have
0:10:14 > 0:10:17the right to express his disappointment in colourful terms of
0:10:17 > 0:10:24the UK has decided to leave?He does have the right to talk straight and
0:10:24 > 0:10:29frank terms. He also has to listen to an awful lot of crude language
0:10:29 > 0:10:34and all sorts of discussions and exaggerations representing a
0:10:34 > 0:10:37supposedly UK position. Describing the UN all sorts of terms and
0:10:37 > 0:10:43himself personally and also to terms. -- the EU in all sort of
0:10:43 > 0:10:48terms. It clear that the negotiations that he and David Davis
0:10:48 > 0:10:52have treated quite a number of issues. Few of the ideas seem to be
0:10:52 > 0:10:59coming from the EU Government side. Ian is calling for a no surrender
0:10:59 > 0:11:04approach. At the moment, there is a no plan, no arguments and approach
0:11:04 > 0:11:10from the UK. That creates a huge problem for people like Michel
0:11:10 > 0:11:13Barnier that attracted negotiate a deal with UK to make sense of Brexit
0:11:13 > 0:11:18and, so far as anybody can, in everybody's interests. That creates
0:11:18 > 0:11:22problems for the Irish Government. They need to defend their own
0:11:22 > 0:11:30interests, they wanted different -- they want to defend the whole
0:11:30 > 0:11:38interests -- they want to defend the interests of the whole island.Isn't
0:11:38 > 0:11:41it the case, Mark Durkan, that the Irish Government is to be careful
0:11:41 > 0:11:45how places because it's being charged with interfering in the
0:11:45 > 0:11:52internal affairs, the sovereign affairs of the UK? Maybe it was too
0:11:52 > 0:11:57much to say for itself.I don't think it has too much to say for
0:11:57 > 0:12:02itself. The Irish fragment is in a particular position with a land
0:12:02 > 0:12:06border, -- the Irish Government is any particular position with a land
0:12:06 > 0:12:13border with the UK, Oracle guarantors with the UK of the Good
0:12:13 > 0:12:21Friday Agreement. After all, the Brexit -- the Brexiteers are saying
0:12:21 > 0:12:24that the Good Friday Agreement will not be touched by Brexit. Then
0:12:24 > 0:12:29whenever people try to use the architecture of the Good Friday
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Agreement, they are accused of interference and upsetting the
0:12:32 > 0:12:37constitutional integrity of the UK. There is a democratic constitutional
0:12:37 > 0:12:40integrity of the Good Friday Agreement that has to be upheld and
0:12:40 > 0:12:46the Irish Government should continue to do that.The Irish Times puts
0:12:46 > 0:12:51today that it is hard to negotiate with the British Government because
0:12:51 > 0:12:57the British Government is still negotiating with itself.There is a
0:12:57 > 0:13:00deliberate attempt... There is issues within the Conservative
0:13:00 > 0:13:05Party. But there is eight deliberate attempt -- a deliberate attempt to
0:13:05 > 0:13:10make the British Government reveal its hand.But it doesn't have a hand
0:13:10 > 0:13:13at the moment, isn't that the problem.We have a strong hand as a
0:13:13 > 0:13:17nation, I don't agree with that. We are leaving the EU, the customs
0:13:17 > 0:13:23union and the single market. Today the Labour Party spokesman on trade
0:13:23 > 0:13:27media group that if we were to stay in the customs union we would not be
0:13:27 > 0:13:29able to make the free trade agreement with other countries
0:13:29 > 0:13:35around the world. It's imperative that we get on with this, all of the
0:13:35 > 0:13:38issues that Mark campaigned for when he was member of Parliament and
0:13:38 > 0:13:46issues that I've campaigned for, reducing VAT on fuel, tampon tax,
0:13:46 > 0:13:50issues like that, all of those taxes were kept in place by the EU.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54Leaving the EU allows us to remove things that create poverty in our
0:13:54 > 0:14:00nation.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04When you look at the Treasury figures released this week, leaked
0:14:04 > 0:14:08this week, they point to a big slowdown in economic growth over the
0:14:08 > 0:14:13next 15 years. Are you not concerned about that?A 15 year forecast is
0:14:13 > 0:14:17astrology! The Bank of England made a forecast this time last year, and
0:14:17 > 0:14:22it has changed and four times in 12 months. You are expecting me to
0:14:22 > 0:14:29believe a forecast for 15 years? What if it is true?It is not.Four
0:14:29 > 0:14:35parts of the EU would see a double-digit slowdown in GDP.
0:14:35 > 0:14:40Northern Ireland sells £78 billion worth of goods, £48 billion with
0:14:40 > 0:14:44sold in turn lead within Northern Ireland.Why would you leave the
0:14:44 > 0:14:48biggest trading bloc in the world? The remainder goes to the United
0:14:48 > 0:14:53Kingdom. How on earth could we lose out on internal trade when most of
0:14:53 > 0:14:56our sales are internal to our market? The United Kingdom is the
0:14:56 > 0:15:01biggest market for Northern Ireland, so that forecast is nonsense,
0:15:01 > 0:15:08astrology.Astrology, Mark Durkan? That is what Ian wants to say to
0:15:08 > 0:15:13dismiss these forecasts, because he does not like them. We are in a
0:15:13 > 0:15:16situation where the UK's trading arrangements with Europe are going
0:15:16 > 0:15:23to be up in the air. Ian says there will be other trade deals, but it is
0:15:23 > 0:15:27not clear where we will get them, offsetting the loss of value in
0:15:27 > 0:15:32terms of European trade. We have more and more sectors waking up to
0:15:32 > 0:15:36the dangers of Brexit for them - the haulage sector most recently
0:15:36 > 0:15:39realising that the legislation that the British and are bringing forward
0:15:39 > 0:15:46will place huge restrictions on them. The British Government are
0:15:46 > 0:15:51bringing forward. It could impose restrictions on the industry
0:15:51 > 0:15:55locally.On a sector that you campaign for, fuel poverty, whenever
0:15:55 > 0:16:02you voted in 2009 to try and reduce VAT on fuel, you were not allowed,
0:16:02 > 0:16:07it was brought down to 5%, you will not allowed to take it to zero
0:16:07 > 0:16:12because of the EU. Whenever we leave the EU, we can scrap VAT in total
0:16:12 > 0:16:19for all of our people. And you are stopped from doing that.Frankly,
0:16:19 > 0:16:26the UK Government are saying they will not do that. The fact is that
0:16:26 > 0:16:28we have governments to have at times protected that they did not have
0:16:28 > 0:16:31discretion in relation to be 80 whenever they had a lot more
0:16:31 > 0:16:42discretion that they did. -- in relation to VAT.No.In relation to
0:16:42 > 0:16:45hospitality, fuel, UK minister saying they could not reduce it.Air
0:16:45 > 0:16:50passenger duty, we couldn't reduce that because of the UK.The point is
0:16:50 > 0:16:55that there are wider economic issues at stake in relation to this, and of
0:16:55 > 0:16:58course the implications here locally not just in terms of the border,
0:16:58 > 0:17:06customs and trade terms, it is also the dangers of borderism, more and
0:17:06 > 0:17:10more different terms over the years, going against the grain and the
0:17:10 > 0:17:14direction of travel under the agreement.Let's look forward and
0:17:14 > 0:17:19say that in a year's time, just over a year, the UK leaves the EU - what
0:17:19 > 0:17:24will the border look like? We are hearing from Karen Bradley and
0:17:24 > 0:17:27others that there will be no new infrastructure on the border, Jacob
0:17:27 > 0:17:32Rees-Mogg says a border will be put in place by the Republic of Ireland
0:17:32 > 0:17:37if anyone. How will your border work if tariffs are not the same north
0:17:37 > 0:17:40and south of the border? About the obvious reality is that probably the
0:17:40 > 0:17:44EU will instruct one of its member states to put infrastructure on the
0:17:44 > 0:17:50border.United Kingdom Government has made it clear that we would use
0:17:50 > 0:17:54technology on the border, number plate recognition, and in terms of
0:17:54 > 0:17:59trusted traders to service goods. If you travel to the Swiss border, the
0:17:59 > 0:18:05Swiss border as five borders with five other nations, and it is not as
0:18:05 > 0:18:11complex.You are saying there will be new infrastructure on the border?
0:18:11 > 0:18:16Numberplate recognition?We already have that.So exactly as it is,
0:18:16 > 0:18:21then?We already have precise numberplate recognition systems, but
0:18:21 > 0:18:24more importantly the Irish government will be forced, as a
0:18:24 > 0:18:29member state of the EU, to a wrecked stuff on the border.What about
0:18:29 > 0:18:32hauliers who are concerned about this?There will be an order coming
0:18:32 > 0:18:38through which will address haulage and licenses, coming up in
0:18:38 > 0:18:41Parliament very soon.Mark Durkan has nothing to be concerned about?
0:18:41 > 0:18:49In terms of haulage, no.Are you reassured by that?The border is
0:18:49 > 0:18:53very significant, and it has been talked up by people who are engaged
0:18:53 > 0:18:57in stirring party politics in the south of Ireland.You don't think
0:18:57 > 0:19:02you have a slightly simplistic view of what it is going to be like? That
0:19:02 > 0:19:06is what your critics say.I do not believe it will be simple, but at
0:19:06 > 0:19:10the same time I do not believe it will be a great difficulty that
0:19:10 > 0:19:16people want to portray.Mark Durkan is shaking his head, are you
0:19:16 > 0:19:21persuaded by any... Ian Paisley has conceded it will not be simple.This
0:19:21 > 0:19:26somewhere over the rainbow nonsense about how perfect Brexit will be is
0:19:26 > 0:19:31just nonsense. The fact is, Ian is returning to his selection box of
0:19:31 > 0:19:36bogus and the silly claims that were given during the referendum
0:19:36 > 0:19:40campaign, and we are getting them reheated now. The fact is that most
0:19:40 > 0:19:45people realise that Brexit is more complicated than they thought, even
0:19:45 > 0:19:49supporters of Brexit are realising that. If we are going to get
0:19:49 > 0:19:54answers, we have to get real answers to real questions. Ian dismisses
0:19:54 > 0:19:59every question, he also dismisses every positive proposal and
0:19:59 > 0:20:03dismisses it as interference in the UK's position. It is clear the
0:20:03 > 0:20:06December deal said it is up to the British Government to come forward
0:20:06 > 0:20:10with key proposals in a number of areas, including in relation to
0:20:10 > 0:20:14Ireland. I don't see them coming forward with those proposals, and
0:20:14 > 0:20:19there is an onus on democratic Ireland to come forward with clear
0:20:19 > 0:20:22proposals and show how the Good Friday agreement can be used to
0:20:22 > 0:20:29answer a lot of the Brexit challenges, how we can boost the
0:20:29 > 0:20:32economy into the future, not just in the areas of existing co-operation,
0:20:32 > 0:20:37but in all other areas in future. Final quick question, would you like
0:20:37 > 0:20:43to see the UK leave on WTO arrangements, without a formal deal?
0:20:43 > 0:20:47It is an option, but I would prefer a bespoke deal, and it is better for
0:20:47 > 0:20:52the EU to get that, and that is what we are working towards. The old
0:20:52 > 0:20:56point of this, I have a positive attitude to what the United Kingdom
0:20:56 > 0:21:00people have come to, we are better doing these things outside of the
0:21:00 > 0:21:04EU, rather than being tied by their internal restrictions. Mark wants to
0:21:04 > 0:21:08be part of a club because he is not convinced the United Kingdom can cut
0:21:08 > 0:21:14its own club outside of the EU. Look, let's park that one for a
0:21:14 > 0:21:19second, I want to ask you very quickly about speculation that
0:21:19 > 0:21:23Theresa May may be thinking about involving herself in the process,
0:21:23 > 0:21:30perhaps as soon as next week. What are you hearing?This has been the
0:21:30 > 0:21:33Prime Minister's position for quite some time, she is ready to come over
0:21:33 > 0:21:38when it is necessary, and that is just speculation.Are we approaching
0:21:38 > 0:21:42that stage?No idea.Gosh, you should have a word with some of the
0:21:42 > 0:21:47people in your party, then, there is a lot of speculation...I am sure
0:21:47 > 0:21:51there is, I read it in the newspapers. I will wait and see what
0:21:51 > 0:21:54happens. We have a negotiating team, let them do their job.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Thank you both.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59Sinn Fein's national chairperson, Declan Kearney, has been accused
0:21:59 > 0:22:00of being delusional by claiming republicans inspired
0:22:00 > 0:22:02the civil rights campaign here.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04Mr Kearney has said that the civil rights movement was heavily
0:22:04 > 0:22:06influenced 50 years ago by the IRA
0:22:06 > 0:22:07and Sinn Fein leaderships.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09But Bernadette McAliskey, who was herself a key player
0:22:09 > 0:22:12in the civil rights campaign, has told this programme that
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Mr Kearney is wrong - and guilty of "silly ramblings".
0:22:15 > 0:22:17So who's right and who's wrong?
0:22:17 > 0:22:18Our political correspondent Stephen Walker
0:22:18 > 0:22:26has been investigating.
0:22:26 > 0:22:34There is battle lines being drawn... # Nobody is right if everybody is
0:22:34 > 0:22:37wrong # Young people... #
0:22:37 > 0:22:41The late 1960s were a key time, protests on the streets, demands for
0:22:41 > 0:22:50votes, jobs and houses, and change was in the air.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53was in the air. The civil rights movement was formed, and it was a
0:22:53 > 0:22:58turning point in history. 50 years on, opinion is divided on what
0:22:58 > 0:23:03exactly happened and who was involved. Writing on a website,
0:23:03 > 0:23:08Declan Kidney argued it was the strategic decision of the IRA and
0:23:08 > 0:23:13Sinn Fein leaderships that helped to form the civil rights movement.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17Republicans were involved, the IRA and Sinn Fein leadership is
0:23:17 > 0:23:20encouraged their activists to organise and to campaign under the
0:23:20 > 0:23:25umbrella of the civil rights movement, alongside other Democrats,
0:23:25 > 0:23:28other political activists, human right activists, Communists and
0:23:28 > 0:23:33trade unionists. So the role of republicanism was central to the
0:23:33 > 0:23:37emergence of the civil rights movement, along with others.So our
0:23:37 > 0:23:41Sinn Fein trying to claim a place in history? Bernadette Devlin, as you
0:23:41 > 0:23:45was then, was a leading figure in the civil rights movement, later
0:23:45 > 0:23:50becoming the youngest woman to become elected to Westminster.I
0:23:50 > 0:23:56really don't have the political space in my head, and I don't think
0:23:56 > 0:24:04anybody should, to engage in the delusional silliness of individual
0:24:04 > 0:24:11ramblings that people have about the past.So do you really think Declan
0:24:11 > 0:24:17Kidney is delusional?Yes, undoubtedly, with respect I think
0:24:17 > 0:24:26the article that he wrote is delusional, you know, and I say that
0:24:26 > 0:24:35it has very little basis in reality. We represent a stand for basic human
0:24:35 > 0:24:40rights...Eamon McCann was in the civil rights campaign. Today he
0:24:40 > 0:24:44questions Sinn Fein's recollection of the time.They are trying to
0:24:44 > 0:24:48colonise history, claim every advance, every bit of militancy over
0:24:48 > 0:24:55the years, as their own, and of course this isn't true, Sinn Fein
0:24:55 > 0:24:58was attempting to portray themselves, and, more importantly,
0:24:58 > 0:25:03to portray the IRA as a natural outgrowth of the civil rights
0:25:03 > 0:25:08movement, which is certainly not true. They are also trying to
0:25:08 > 0:25:12pretend that they instigated the civil rights movement.Others insist
0:25:12 > 0:25:16that Sinn Fein are using the history of the civil rights campaign to
0:25:16 > 0:25:24justify the subsequent actions of the IRA.The civil rights movement
0:25:24 > 0:25:28was about equality. The republican movement commission pain and the IRA
0:25:28 > 0:25:33were about Brits out and Irish unity by force. So, you know, it is a
0:25:33 > 0:25:39rewriting of history to pretend that the republican movement fought a war
0:25:39 > 0:25:44to get equality, they did not. They fought a war to get the breads and
0:25:44 > 0:25:49to unite Ireland, neither of which they succeeded in doing.So our Sinn
0:25:49 > 0:25:52Fein laying claim to something they have no right to buy suggesting the
0:25:52 > 0:25:58party and the IRA were influential? I haven't said that leading members
0:25:58 > 0:26:02of the civil rights movement at that point in time were exclusively IRA
0:26:02 > 0:26:08or Sinn Fein activists. What I have said is that the reality is that
0:26:08 > 0:26:12Republican activists were involved directly, with many others, in the
0:26:12 > 0:26:16formation of the civil rights movement.The danger is people say
0:26:16 > 0:26:20you are trying to claim ownership of something that was not there at the
0:26:20 > 0:26:24time.That is not the case, the civil rights movement, through the
0:26:24 > 0:26:29lens of historical objectivity, and multiple parents and gave birth to
0:26:29 > 0:26:34many children.This week, Sinn Fein continued to make remarks about the
0:26:34 > 0:26:39civil rights campaign. This time, it was Alex Maskey who tweeted,
0:26:39 > 0:26:43unfortunately it took more than the civil rights association to secure
0:26:43 > 0:26:50rights in the putrid
0:26:50 > 0:26:54rights in the putrid little statelet Northern Ireland. It did not make an
0:26:54 > 0:26:57impression with Bernadette McAliskey.Whatever it is that he is
0:26:57 > 0:27:08trying to say, he would want to say that in a way that reflects some,
0:27:08 > 0:27:15any depth of political thought or understanding, rather than an
0:27:15 > 0:27:20enveloped culture of opening your mouth without any prior thought and
0:27:20 > 0:27:31allowing abuse to fallout of it. Aside from the arguments over what
0:27:31 > 0:27:35happened 50 years ago, is there a broader lesson to be learned? As
0:27:35 > 0:27:39politicians grapple with what needs to happen in the future, what can
0:27:39 > 0:27:46they learn from the past?50 years on, the work of the civil rights
0:27:46 > 0:27:50movement remains unfinished.I do think that what the civil rights
0:27:50 > 0:27:58movement taught me is that when people of integrity, with the right
0:27:58 > 0:28:04aims and with justice as their aim, come together to achieve something,
0:28:04 > 0:28:08the sky is the limit.The lesson I take from the civil rights movement
0:28:08 > 0:28:12is that the major things we achieved towards democracy in the North were
0:28:12 > 0:28:17achieved by people power on the streets.I rarely look back, unless
0:28:17 > 0:28:22I want to learn something from the past. In order to do something
0:28:22 > 0:28:29better for the future. If we look at the work that has to be done in
0:28:29 > 0:28:32Northern Ireland, it ill befits anyone in this place to claim
0:28:32 > 0:28:40bragging rights.Five decades on, the history of the civil rights
0:28:40 > 0:28:45movement still divides opinion. Much has changed, but an agreed narrative
0:28:45 > 0:28:47remains elusive.
0:28:47 > 0:28:48Stephen Walker reporting.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50Plenty to discuss with our commentators tonight,
0:28:50 > 0:28:52and it's a warm welcome back to Fionnuala O'Connor
0:28:52 > 0:28:57and Alex Kane.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01Welcome to you both. First of all, let's have a word about the talks
0:29:01 > 0:29:05that Brenda McCafferty was playing us up your speakers. The suggestion
0:29:05 > 0:29:09that Theresa May could be about to come over here if the situation
0:29:09 > 0:29:14presented itself for her presence might make a difference. -- Enda.
0:29:14 > 0:29:19What should be read into that if anything at all?We should think
0:29:19 > 0:29:26about it and the idea that that that might help as just so plainly daft.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29If she has no authority understanding in her own Government
0:29:29 > 0:29:32and Cabinet, the ideas you could come over here and have any
0:29:32 > 0:29:37beneficial effect on to parties, neither of whom have any time for.
0:29:37 > 0:29:43The DUP protective because -- pretend to because they have this
0:29:43 > 0:29:49deal with the Conservative Party but I can believe that they are any more
0:29:49 > 0:29:53impressed with her as a politician and as a person with an authority
0:29:53 > 0:29:57than her own Cabinet.Do you get any sense that the two main parties are
0:29:57 > 0:30:02inching towards some kind of common ground?No, I do. They might well
0:30:02 > 0:30:07be. They've made it hard for themselves. -- no, I don't. They
0:30:07 > 0:30:12both have set up things that look impossible for them to overcome. It
0:30:12 > 0:30:16could well happen. They could produce something. It will be pretty
0:30:16 > 0:30:22if they do.That's right. The problem with Theresa May, given the
0:30:22 > 0:30:26nature of the relationship she has with the GP I can't conceive of a
0:30:26 > 0:30:32situation where she can turn up and sell some industry and friend. The
0:30:32 > 0:30:43relationship she has with DUP. The issue with the language act, they
0:30:43 > 0:30:48would both have been given so much. Within unionism, there is no way on
0:30:48 > 0:30:55God 's earth that DUP could sell a stand-alone Irish language act.It's
0:30:55 > 0:31:00not possible. Leo Varadkar would be there as well if Theresa May was.He
0:31:00 > 0:31:07would have to. I remember when David Cameron came over and had been
0:31:07 > 0:31:13told... Then he realised. Absolutely nothing, I can't conceive of
0:31:13 > 0:31:18anything that they could come up with at this stage and say, I'll
0:31:18 > 0:31:25come on, Prime Minister, come and have your input.What did you make
0:31:25 > 0:31:30about Ian Paisley's comments on a no surrender approach?That was not
0:31:30 > 0:31:34very intelligent. When you think about how upset many unionists were
0:31:34 > 0:31:38well beyond the DUP about the mockery of the DUP fall the
0:31:38 > 0:31:46Conservatives, much of which was couched in mockery of shouting terms
0:31:46 > 0:31:49like, no surrender, of red-faced Orangemen marching and bolder hats,
0:31:49 > 0:31:54somebody gets up in the House of Commons and waves his order paper
0:31:54 > 0:32:01and yells, no surrender. What I think we saw there was somebody
0:32:01 > 0:32:08reacting to the
0:32:08 > 0:32:14reacting to the tweet that morning. That tweet about burgers and Irish
0:32:14 > 0:32:18opportunist. I think these are two of the biggest exhibitionist in the
0:32:18 > 0:32:23DUP. Off the pitch, not involved in the talks, they are striving for
0:32:23 > 0:32:28attention.I think it was nonsense. I think that he is right in terms of
0:32:28 > 0:32:32the fact that the rib problem is with Theresa May and the
0:32:32 > 0:32:37Conservative Government. -- the real problem is with. He forgets that the
0:32:37 > 0:32:42idea of hardbody, hard Brexit, there is a clash of identities. --
0:32:42 > 0:32:50hardboard. The DUP cannot ignore this, they cannot come out with this
0:32:50 > 0:33:02idea of the worst office, man. -- the idea of toughness.It was a daft
0:33:02 > 0:33:11article, as well as a big whopper. This is the Declan Kearney article?
0:33:11 > 0:33:16Yes, it was scratched -- the Republicans were involved but it
0:33:16 > 0:33:24wasn't hers Sinn Fein, the leaders said about the civil rights movement
0:33:24 > 0:33:32as individuals, attempting to influence, as when a debt -- as
0:33:32 > 0:33:40Bernadette and Eamon, they were very involved. Republicans were involved,
0:33:40 > 0:33:47but not these Republicans. He is guilty by omission of reframing
0:33:47 > 0:33:52history.She nailed it, when she said that Sinn Fein were trying to
0:33:52 > 0:33:56colonise history. They are making it up as they go along.It is
0:33:56 > 0:34:02offensive. One of the leaders afterwards said that he was sorry
0:34:02 > 0:34:10afterwards that he did not shoot Gerry Adams and call.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12That's it from The View for this week.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One.
0:34:14 > 0:34:17For now, though, we'll sign off on a tranquil note
0:34:17 > 0:34:18with some thoughtful, reflective debate from
0:34:18 > 0:34:20yesterday's session in the Dail.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22It all began when the new system of numbered cards for TDs hoping
0:34:22 > 0:34:25to put questions to the Taoiseach began to unravel -
0:34:25 > 0:34:27and the Healey-Rae brothers were in the middle of it.
0:34:27 > 0:34:28Goodnight!
0:34:28 > 0:34:32Have you got a card?Of course I have, the same as you.Hang on
0:34:32 > 0:34:42one-minute kicks!
0:34:42 > 0:34:51one-minute That's... That's outrageous!That other directors! We
0:34:51 > 0:34:56were elected...
0:34:58 > 0:35:07were elected...Stop shouting.It's not... It's a disgrace!Are
0:35:07 > 0:35:14suspended house. -- Isis Bentley house. Deputy, you will not speak to
0:35:14 > 0:35:15the chair like