0:00:06 > 0:00:08Another political week dominated by Brexit and the potential
0:00:08 > 0:00:11consequences for the Irish border.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13So is there any way of bridging the gap between Brussels
0:00:13 > 0:00:14and Downing Street?
0:00:14 > 0:00:16And where does all of that leave us?
0:00:16 > 0:00:24Welcome to The View.
0:00:39 > 0:00:39Tonight...
0:00:39 > 0:00:42The Brussels plan for Ireland, North and South, may never materialise -
0:00:42 > 0:00:45but while it's the only show in town, it's causing
0:00:45 > 0:00:50rows all over the place.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55I think some of the wilder claims made by some people need to be
0:00:55 > 0:00:59reeled in. We need to get on with the practical job of negotiating a
0:00:59 > 0:01:04trade deal between the UK and the rest of the EU.There has to be a
0:01:04 > 0:01:08solution that comes forward, and there is nothing coming forward as
0:01:08 > 0:01:14far as I can see from the Unionists.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16Nigel Dodds and Emily Thornberry set out their stalls and the DUP's
0:01:16 > 0:01:19deputy leader tells me "mistrust and bad blood" make
0:01:19 > 0:01:21a return to devolution unlikely in the short-term.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23And while Theresa May made it clear she's opposed to a border
0:01:23 > 0:01:26in the middle of the Irish Sea, what are the chances
0:01:26 > 0:01:28of building a bridge across it?
0:01:28 > 0:01:31I would hope that we would certainly have the capability and the talent,
0:01:31 > 0:01:33the engineering and architectural talent in both countries to do it.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36I would certainly hope that we would have a building built,
0:01:36 > 0:01:37a bridge built by 2025.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40And dusting off their snow shoes - tonight's commentators
0:01:40 > 0:01:45are Allison Morris and Sam McBride.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48"Time to come up with a better idea" - the advice of
0:01:48 > 0:01:50the European Council President, Donald Tusk, to Theresa May
0:01:50 > 0:01:52as the fall-out continues after yesterday's publication
0:01:52 > 0:01:57of the EU's draft withdrawal treaty.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00The document runs to 120 pages - but it's the proposals around
0:02:00 > 0:02:04the future of the border here which have caused the uproar.
0:02:04 > 0:02:12I'll be getting two very different political perspectives
0:02:17 > 0:02:25First from Emily Thornberry. First, her thoughts on the draft EU treaty.
0:02:29 > 0:02:34Northern Ireland as part of the UK and whatever agreement we have has
0:02:34 > 0:02:37to retain the integrity of Northern Ireland as part of the UK, but we
0:02:37 > 0:02:43have to have a soft border between the north than the South. That's
0:02:43 > 0:02:47what's important. The British government agreed to that before
0:02:47 > 0:02:51Christmas. They said they would find a way that we would have a soft
0:02:51 > 0:02:55border. They signed up to that. They have since said we would be in the
0:02:55 > 0:02:58single market or the customs union but they've not come forward with
0:02:58 > 0:03:05any other alternative proposals. So the EU said, well, you agreed to a
0:03:05 > 0:03:10soft border. You haven't come up with anything. All we've got is
0:03:10 > 0:03:14single market and customs union, what have you got? You've got no
0:03:14 > 0:03:18proposals at all. So if you don't want to have a border between North
0:03:18 > 0:03:23and South, are you talking about it being in the middle of the sea?
0:03:23 > 0:03:26Obviously there is no way we would agree to that. Of course we
0:03:26 > 0:03:31wouldn't. But the solution is in front of their faces. We have to be
0:03:31 > 0:03:36in a customs union. We have been thinking about this in the Labour
0:03:36 > 0:03:41Party long and hard for 21 months, since the referendum. As far as we
0:03:41 > 0:03:45are concerned, there is no other solution. There's no other solution
0:03:45 > 0:03:49in terms of looking after the economy, in terms of maintaining
0:03:49 > 0:03:53jobs, and we have to be thinking about that first and foremost and
0:03:53 > 0:03:58then also about peace Ireland.The Prime Minister dismissed any idea of
0:03:58 > 0:04:05the UK remaining in a customs union with the EU, in equally strident
0:04:05 > 0:04:12terms to her dismissal of today's EU proposals.Well, she's wrong.She's
0:04:12 > 0:04:17the Prime Minister.She's still wrong, and I didn't think the
0:04:17 > 0:04:21majority of the House of Commons agrees with her. I think that she is
0:04:21 > 0:04:26being reckless. She being reckless, she's playing with peace. She's
0:04:26 > 0:04:30playing with the Constitution of the country. She's cutting off her nose
0:04:30 > 0:04:35to spite her face, she has to change her mind.How is she playing with
0:04:35 > 0:04:41peace?Because the balance in Ireland has been long negotiated.
0:04:41 > 0:04:453000 people lost their lives. We negotiated a balance between the
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Irish government and British government, guarantees of a soft
0:04:48 > 0:04:55border, guarantees of peace, of a future, etc. It is there and finely
0:04:55 > 0:05:00balanced. If they start behaving in a way that will result in a hard
0:05:00 > 0:05:04border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland, that threatens
0:05:04 > 0:05:10peace. You know it does.Who is threatening to go back to war? It
0:05:10 > 0:05:15certainly upsets the balance of what was agreed in the Good Friday
0:05:15 > 0:05:18Agreement, but it doesn't unlock the door for people to go back to
0:05:18 > 0:05:22violence, does it?What it does is it ranks up the pressure and the
0:05:22 > 0:05:26tension. If we start having a hard border then I think that's what it
0:05:26 > 0:05:32does, and the piece is so finely balanced in Ireland, nobody can be
0:05:32 > 0:05:37complacent about this. The Good Friday Agreement has held up across
0:05:37 > 0:05:42the world. I met the president of Columbia and they said how much they
0:05:42 > 0:05:46had learned from the Good Friday Agreement. It is an example of good
0:05:46 > 0:05:49practice. They are being so arrogant in the way in which just because of
0:05:49 > 0:05:56their dogma, they are prepared to risk it. You shouldn't be risking
0:05:56 > 0:06:01it.Sammy Wilson accused the Labour leadership of having supported Sinn
0:06:01 > 0:06:05Fein, which he alleges conducted a campaign of genocide along the
0:06:05 > 0:06:16border. He argued IRA violence and necessitated a hard border during
0:06:16 > 0:06:20the troubles. He said it is more about under minding the EU
0:06:20 > 0:06:25referendum result than anything else. Does he have a point?I can't
0:06:25 > 0:06:32tell you how insulted I am by that. I'm really insulted. I have Irish
0:06:32 > 0:06:36heritage too. I want a good future for Northern Ireland within the UK.
0:06:36 > 0:06:41That's what I want, because that's what the Northern Irish people want.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44But we have to find a peaceful way forward which means we have to be
0:06:44 > 0:06:50pragmatic. What I would say to Unionists in Northern Ireland is
0:06:50 > 0:06:54it's all very well for you to say there mustn't be a border between
0:06:54 > 0:06:58Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, there mustn't be a border
0:06:58 > 0:07:04between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland, and yet the UK can
0:07:04 > 0:07:08diverged, and yet the UK can develop an economy in a different way to the
0:07:08 > 0:07:11rest of the EU, but there isn't going to be a border. Nobody seems
0:07:11 > 0:07:18to be challenging them about the illogicality of that. There has to
0:07:18 > 0:07:22be a solution and there is nothing that is coming forward from the
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Unionists on this.The Prime Minister said today in the House of
0:07:25 > 0:07:28Commons there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and the
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Republic, no hard border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain
0:07:31 > 0:07:40and no customs union between the UK and EU.It just doesn't work. What
0:07:40 > 0:07:46their alternative? Is it something to do with unicorns? We've heard
0:07:46 > 0:07:56nothing and neither has the European Union.Theresa May is making a
0:07:56 > 0:08:00speech...Lets sit here with open ears. We've had so many speeches, so
0:08:00 > 0:08:05many papers but we've not had any alternative. At some stage somebody
0:08:05 > 0:08:10is going to need to be grown-up about this and face the facts.Will
0:08:10 > 0:08:14we inevitably end up, if the UK Government cannot produce an
0:08:14 > 0:08:24acceptable alternative, that we will end up with the option C which is
0:08:24 > 0:08:27this common regulatory area for Northern Ireland in the future. The
0:08:27 > 0:08:30Unionists don't like it but you'd think that is what will happen?What
0:08:30 > 0:08:35has happened is that in order to get through Christmas, Theresa May
0:08:35 > 0:08:42signed a piece of paper, and on that she said no hard border. She put
0:08:42 > 0:08:47forward a number of alternatives. Two of them were extremely foggy,
0:08:47 > 0:08:51she hasn't fleshed them out with any detail, and the third one is that
0:08:51 > 0:08:56eventually we stay in the EU in all but words, we stay in the single
0:08:56 > 0:09:00market. All of the UK, not just Northern Ireland, all of the UK
0:09:00 > 0:09:06stays in the single market and a customs union. They don't want that,
0:09:06 > 0:09:11and I understand why they don't want that, but they have to compromise.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15We are saying we must leave the EU because that's what the referendum
0:09:15 > 0:09:19bill that, despite what the people of Northern Ireland wanted which was
0:09:19 > 0:09:22to stay, but nevertheless we have to find a way forward that keeps our
0:09:22 > 0:09:26country unified. That means keeping Northern Ireland as part of the UK,
0:09:26 > 0:09:31that means pulling together the 48% and the 52%. Which means we leave
0:09:31 > 0:09:36the EU but we don't have to go very far, which means we can keep a soft
0:09:36 > 0:09:46border.
0:09:51 > 0:09:56We had a bit of a technical problem in that interview with Emily
0:09:56 > 0:10:00Thornberry. That was the Shadow Foreign Secretary talking to meet at
0:10:00 > 0:10:07her office in Westminster yesterday afternoon. Not surprisingly, Nigel
0:10:07 > 0:10:11Dodds sees things differently. He said he was amazed the EU could
0:10:11 > 0:10:15think the EU proposals would ever be acceptable to his party. When I met
0:10:15 > 0:10:21up with him yesterday I suggested to him that the EU proposals are only
0:10:21 > 0:10:25the legal version of what was previously agreed to buy Theresa May
0:10:25 > 0:10:29in Brussels last December.They are not because they leave out the
0:10:29 > 0:10:35Article 50 stuff about guaranteeing unfettered access for Northern
0:10:35 > 0:10:39Ireland. It takes the whole interpretation of regulatory
0:10:39 > 0:10:45alignment much further across greater areas than was imagined, and
0:10:45 > 0:10:50it doesn't deal in any regard with options a and B because it is purely
0:10:50 > 0:10:55with the C. It doesn't reflect what was agreed in December, and the
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Prime Minister made that very clear in her excellent remarks at Prime
0:10:58 > 0:11:02Minister's Questions in which she said no British Prime Minister could
0:11:02 > 0:11:08possibly accept such a paper. Options A and B are the
0:11:08 > 0:11:12responsibility of the UK Government and Michel Barnier said today we are
0:11:12 > 0:11:16happy to see them, but there doesn't seem to be any great urgency to
0:11:16 > 0:11:20produce any.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22They would be better waiting
0:11:22 > 0:11:24They would be better waiting until Friday, it is their decision to go
0:11:24 > 0:11:29ahead today and they are the ones the EU has structured the
0:11:29 > 0:11:33negotiations to be getting to the progress report and having that the
0:11:33 > 0:11:38month it was elation on transition arrangements and then trade talks
0:11:38 > 0:11:42and in our view and the British government's you is what should have
0:11:42 > 0:11:46happened as everything was on the table from the first day, start
0:11:46 > 0:11:51negotiating the most important part, the trade deal, option A, so it is
0:11:51 > 0:11:56rich for the EU to criticise people when they are the ones who insisted
0:11:56 > 0:12:02on this structure.When it comes to Friday's much anticipated speech by
0:12:02 > 0:12:05the Prime Minister, do you think she will clear up a lot of the confusion
0:12:05 > 0:12:12that seems to be around today?She will set out the UK's negotiating
0:12:12 > 0:12:16position in terms of the overall trade deal, she will reiterate the
0:12:16 > 0:12:20commitment to the agreement in December and she will also reiterate
0:12:20 > 0:12:26what she said in terms of the Commons at Prime Minister 's
0:12:26 > 0:12:30questions, which is that no British prime ministers could possibly
0:12:30 > 0:12:34accede to anything that would break up the Common Market and the UK, the
0:12:34 > 0:12:39single market, no customs border down the Irish Sea. And no British
0:12:39 > 0:12:47Prime Minister would accede to the EU draft text, which would break up
0:12:47 > 0:12:51the UK constitutionally.I think that will be very welcome. Michel
0:12:51 > 0:12:55Barnier has made it clear he has no intention of that, he does not want
0:12:55 > 0:12:59to get involved in the internal politics of the UK anti-respects
0:12:59 > 0:13:03because additional integrity of the UK. He said that very clearly today
0:13:03 > 0:13:09without any ambiguity.I welcome what he says but as we have always
0:13:09 > 0:13:14proved, the proof is in the text and especially the legal text and what
0:13:14 > 0:13:18that spells out, it does not refer at all to the important links
0:13:18 > 0:13:21between Northern Ireland and the UK, it does not reflect that and it
0:13:21 > 0:13:26paints a scenario whereby there would be this common regulatory
0:13:26 > 0:13:29space weather Union of which Northern Ireland would be part,
0:13:29 > 0:13:34regardless of the rest of the UK, and that would politically cut us
0:13:34 > 0:13:40from the rest of the UK, which as Theresa May has said, no British
0:13:40 > 0:13:46prime ministers will accept. Would it really do that? Of course, what
0:13:46 > 0:13:50we would have ears, 75% of our sales out of Northern Ireland goes to the
0:13:50 > 0:13:55UK market or the rest of the world, what they would be doing is creating
0:13:55 > 0:13:58this incredible regulatory barrier, customs barrier, between Northern
0:13:58 > 0:14:05Ireland and the rest of the UK, where most of the sales go. It would
0:14:05 > 0:14:07be economic catastrophe for businesses, communities in Northern
0:14:07 > 0:14:12Ireland, deeply damaging to everyone and that is one reason why I believe
0:14:12 > 0:14:16puzzled at the attitude of the Irish government because it is not in
0:14:16 > 0:14:19their interests to create barriers between Ireland and Great Britain
0:14:19 > 0:14:23because most of their trade goes into Great Britain yet they pursue
0:14:23 > 0:14:27this policy. It seems for purely political reasons. When all of us
0:14:27 > 0:14:30and certainly they should be concentrating on trying to get a
0:14:30 > 0:14:36trade deal which would ensure that business continues between Northern
0:14:36 > 0:14:40Ireland, the Irish Republic and the rest of the EU. That is where the
0:14:40 > 0:14:45focus should be.Michel Barnier said that if Northern Ireland ends up as
0:14:45 > 0:14:50a common regulatory area, it would not be a hard border, that would
0:14:50 > 0:14:53exist between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. It would be a
0:14:53 > 0:14:57series of checks at ports and airports, he said that it's a lot
0:14:57 > 0:15:04easier than to police it, at 310 mile long land border. A hard border
0:15:04 > 0:15:07between Northern Ireland and the republic.They are not the same.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12Even he is admitting that there would be barriers and the EU
0:15:12 > 0:15:16position and others who say they do not want any hard border is there
0:15:16 > 0:15:20can be no infrastructure along the border and we agree with that. We
0:15:20 > 0:15:24think it can be done without any of that. As a government put forward in
0:15:24 > 0:15:30the August paper. What concerns us is this approach by the EU and
0:15:30 > 0:15:37others who support it, it falls under the glaring weight of its own
0:15:37 > 0:15:39inconsistencies. They told us they don't want a border between Northern
0:15:39 > 0:15:43Ireland and the Irish Republic but this would have the effect of
0:15:43 > 0:15:46creating, even with regulatory checks, infrastructure and barriers,
0:15:46 > 0:15:51never mind the regulatory changes which would be a barrier to trade.
0:15:51 > 0:15:57And people are using the Belfast agreement, the need to have a
0:15:57 > 0:16:02frictionless border, even the piece, and I have said this in the Commons,
0:16:02 > 0:16:07using this in quite disgraceful and reckless way in to project their own
0:16:07 > 0:16:12version of Brexit or even to thwart Brexit. Who is going to go back to
0:16:12 > 0:16:16violence? Who is suggesting there should be a hard border? Nobody. Who
0:16:16 > 0:16:23is suggesting that we should abandon good cross-border trade? Nobody.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27Some of the wilder claims made by some people need to be reined in and
0:16:27 > 0:16:30we should get on with the practical job of negotiating an overall trade
0:16:30 > 0:16:36deal between the UK and the rest of the EU.Let us look at what the
0:16:36 > 0:16:40Prime Minister said, you welcomed the commitments. No hard border
0:16:40 > 0:16:42between Northern Ireland and the Republic. No hard border between
0:16:42 > 0:16:48Northern Ireland and Great Britain. No Customs Union between the UK and
0:16:48 > 0:16:52EU you welcome that. Those three things cannot all be true, you
0:16:52 > 0:16:55cannot deliver on those three commitments at the same time.They
0:16:55 > 0:17:01are contradictory. They are not. If you were the government paper, and
0:17:01 > 0:17:05lots of people are talking about the border, I will not include you, but
0:17:05 > 0:17:09a lot of people on this side of the water talk about this and they have
0:17:09 > 0:17:13never been to Northern Ireland, they never read the paper in August and
0:17:13 > 0:17:18they have not talked, as I have, in Stockholm, to the person who drafted
0:17:18 > 0:17:24the report for the parliament, saying this can be done. You can
0:17:24 > 0:17:27have frictionless trade north and south, frictionless trade East and
0:17:27 > 0:17:34West, and you can have a customs arrangement, which is what the Prime
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Minister has talked about, our partnership without being part of
0:17:37 > 0:17:40the Customs Union. The trouble with being part of the Customs Union is
0:17:40 > 0:17:45you end up having to accept whatever deals the EU does in its interests
0:17:45 > 0:17:49without any say as the UK and whether it is in your interests or
0:17:49 > 0:17:54not. It would be a mad situation. We need to be free to negotiate our own
0:17:54 > 0:18:00arrangements that sensible convergence in areas where it makes
0:18:00 > 0:18:04sense.What do you say to those representatives of the agriculture
0:18:04 > 0:18:09and food sector and business sectors, North and south and here in
0:18:09 > 0:18:14Great Britain as well, who have serious reservations about the UK
0:18:14 > 0:18:19and Northern Ireland leaving the Customs Union and the single market?
0:18:19 > 0:18:23Most people in the farming community voted for Brexit and still hold to
0:18:23 > 0:18:27that position. There are sectors of agriculture who have told us that
0:18:27 > 0:18:32actually, if we ended up with a hard Brexit, nobody wants that, but they
0:18:32 > 0:18:36would replace goods coming in at the moment so they would probably
0:18:36 > 0:18:41thrive. Other sectors could see damage done and we have been
0:18:41 > 0:18:45speaking to Michael Gove about managing that but nobody wants to
0:18:45 > 0:18:50get to a hard Brexit.One final question about the talks. To what
0:18:50 > 0:18:55extent do you think you are optimistic that the Stormont talks
0:18:55 > 0:19:01process can be up and running again any time soon?In the short-term we
0:19:01 > 0:19:05are badly in need of some decision-making in Northern Ireland,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08you hear that from the civil service, budgets need to be set and
0:19:08 > 0:19:13decisions taken in the interests of everybody. Whoever. That needs to
0:19:13 > 0:19:18happen. Without prejudice to train to get devolution back and a role
0:19:18 > 0:19:25for the Assembly if necessary for that local input. Do I see
0:19:25 > 0:19:29devolution in the short-term? No. There is a lot of this -- mistrust
0:19:29 > 0:19:34and bad blood. A lot of things that Sinn Fein have done which has
0:19:34 > 0:19:38concerned and angered people in the unionist community. And I think
0:19:38 > 0:19:42there isn't a balanced package on offer so I think we do need to get
0:19:42 > 0:19:47back to devolution but if you ask me will it happen in the short term, I
0:19:47 > 0:19:50don't think it is but that is without prejudice to making it
0:19:50 > 0:19:56happen in the medium and long term. The website that published the draft
0:19:56 > 0:20:00text and in a subsequent article in question was posed... The first
0:20:00 > 0:20:06opportunity to ask this question... Did Arlene Foster personally hand a
0:20:06 > 0:20:11hard copy of that 13 page iteration of the draft agreement to Michelle
0:20:11 > 0:20:19O'Neill at 6:30pm on Friday the 9th of February?That is news to me. I
0:20:19 > 0:20:22will not get into answering questions of that nature but I think
0:20:22 > 0:20:27that is news to me.I have no knowledge of that. That has been in
0:20:27 > 0:20:33the public domain for some time.I don't think that is right. Might
0:20:33 > 0:20:39that we the case? We can speculate. You are getting into the territory
0:20:39 > 0:20:43of speculation upon speculation. I am not going to get into that. Our
0:20:43 > 0:20:48party has acted perfectly correctly in how it has handled all of this
0:20:48 > 0:20:54and we have taken a decision. Which is that in the meantime, until we
0:20:54 > 0:20:58get devolution running on a fair way, decisions have to be taken at
0:20:58 > 0:21:02Westminster and we need to do the budget and get on and have
0:21:02 > 0:21:06government decisions made.That is what everybody needs. You don't know
0:21:06 > 0:21:14if she handed the document?If she did... If I had any knowledge... I
0:21:14 > 0:21:18would be highly surprised, that is speculation upon speculation, like
0:21:18 > 0:21:26me speculating on what you did on Tuesday. I have no knowledge. I
0:21:26 > 0:21:33cannot...I cannot comment. If she did hand that document over, it
0:21:33 > 0:21:39would suggest she had some ownership of it and that document clearly
0:21:39 > 0:21:44suggests signing at Irish Language Act...Can we stop being silly about
0:21:44 > 0:21:52all of this. Stop this nonsense. The reality is... Arlene Foster and
0:21:52 > 0:21:58nobody in the DUP put forward for any kind of agreement the Irish
0:21:58 > 0:22:03language suggestions in any text because it was not agreed by her, by
0:22:03 > 0:22:06the party or anything else. That is the bottom line.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Nigel Dodds talking to me at Westminster yesterday.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11Now, while some politicians have been quick to knock back any
0:22:11 > 0:22:13prospect of a post-Brexit border in the Irish Sea,
0:22:13 > 0:22:16what about the argument for building a bridge across it?
0:22:16 > 0:22:18The Scottish Government has told this programme it's ready to begin
0:22:18 > 0:22:21discussions with officials here, and in Dublin, about the possibility
0:22:21 > 0:22:23of making it happen.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27The DUP and the SNP say the idea of a fixed link should be explored -
0:22:27 > 0:22:28but not everyone's convinced, as Stephen Walker's
0:22:28 > 0:22:35been finding out.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45It is a short ferry crossing to Scotland and if there
0:22:45 > 0:22:49was a bridge it would be an even shorter drive.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52The suggestion of a link between Northern Ireland
0:22:52 > 0:22:56and the West of Scotland is not new, but the idea is now gaining interest
0:22:56 > 0:22:58on both sides of the water.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02In a post-Brexit world, would it help to bring economies
0:23:02 > 0:23:05together and could it boost trade and tourism?
0:23:05 > 0:23:10Or is this an expensive folly we simply cannot afford?
0:23:10 > 0:23:12The idea of connecting with our Scottish neighbours has
0:23:12 > 0:23:17been around for over 130 years.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20These plans from the 1800s show tunnels stretching
0:23:20 > 0:23:23from Counties Down and Antrim to the West of Scotland.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27The idea for a bridge or a tunnel was contained
0:23:27 > 0:23:30in the 2015 DUP manifesto.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33So where could a bridge be built?
0:23:33 > 0:23:36The shortest crossing point is 12 miles from
0:23:36 > 0:23:39the coast of County Antrim.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41The best route seems to be from the Mull of Kintyre
0:23:41 > 0:23:43to the Antrim coast.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46The difficulty with that in the past has been getting from the Mull
0:23:46 > 0:23:49of Kintyre to the Glasgow central belt and to the central
0:23:49 > 0:23:51belt of Scotland.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54There are now achievable ways of actually doing that.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58So I think that the best route, potentially as far as the simplest
0:23:58 > 0:24:01connection and the least expensive connection, would be from the Antrim
0:24:01 > 0:24:03coast to the Mull of Kintyre.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06A bridge stretching from Larne to Portpatrick
0:24:06 > 0:24:08is another possibility.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12And there is another suggestion that would link Bangor to Portpatrick.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14In Dublin recently, Scotland's Brexit Minister said
0:24:14 > 0:24:18the idea was worth exploring.
0:24:18 > 0:24:19I think it's a great idea.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21It would open up my constituency, that's the route
0:24:21 > 0:24:23I would like to see.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25But there's a lot of talking to be done about that.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28But I think it would be important that talking starts on that.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Recent coverage indicates that that's something that should happen.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33As the local MSP I would definitely support that.
0:24:33 > 0:24:38Others agree this idea needs to be explored.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41We have got the most expensive stretch of water for ships
0:24:41 > 0:24:44and ferries to cross and sometimes it is disrupted by bad
0:24:44 > 0:24:46weather, etcetera.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49One of the suggestions we made was if you are going to go
0:24:49 > 0:24:52for blue sky thinking, huge infrastructure projects,
0:24:52 > 0:24:56why not look at the 22 miles between Northern Ireland
0:24:56 > 0:24:59and Scotland and build a bridge which would make travel less
0:24:59 > 0:25:00expensive and probably more certain.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03Sammy Wilson accepts that cost could determine the feasibility.
0:25:03 > 0:25:08To some, the construction fees are too prohibitive.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11Some people put a conservative estimate at £20 billion.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13At a time when our local infrastructure in Northern
0:25:13 > 0:25:14Ireland is struggling.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17We have flagship projects where we are struggling to get
0:25:17 > 0:25:19the capital money to build those and also our roads
0:25:19 > 0:25:20and maintenance budget.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23We simply don't have the money to retain what we already have.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26So to build a bridge at this cost would be seen
0:25:26 > 0:25:28as a vanity project by some.
0:25:28 > 0:25:35So is this a price we simply can't afford?
0:25:35 > 0:25:37But the question is, will it pay for itself over years now?
0:25:37 > 0:25:40To have a capital investment like that we are going
0:25:40 > 0:25:41to create more jobs.
0:25:41 > 0:25:43Northern Ireland could be doing with more jobs.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45We could upskill our workforce more around the construction piece
0:25:45 > 0:25:49so it is a good investment for both Northern Ireland and Scotland.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51If a bridge was proposed a proper cost benefit analysis
0:25:51 > 0:25:54would have to be carried out.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57Something that the Scottish Government have recognised.
0:26:26 > 0:26:33But is there enough trade to justify such a large investment?
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Currently there is about 400,000 lorries would transit
0:26:35 > 0:26:37the North Channel to Cairnryan from Northern Ireland annually.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40What proportion of that vehicle traffic would use the bridge?
0:26:40 > 0:26:42And obviously toll fees have been included as well.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45So would it be financially viable to make the switch
0:26:45 > 0:26:46from ferry to bridge?
0:26:46 > 0:26:49To some, the bridge is more than simply a structure.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53The fact that you can go from Dublin to Belfast to Glasgow to Edinburgh
0:26:53 > 0:26:56in a number of hours and you can jump on a train as well
0:26:56 > 0:26:59if you have a bridge, a suitable bridge, then
0:26:59 > 0:27:01it is fantastic from an infrastructure point of view
0:27:01 > 0:27:03and also for the connectivity.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06Building a bridge would require consultation with local communities
0:27:06 > 0:27:09and would raise fundamental questions of where and how it
0:27:09 > 0:27:11could be constructed.
0:27:11 > 0:27:15Questions that others across the globe have had to answer.
0:27:15 > 0:27:20In China the world's longest sea bridge has just been completed.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22They built their sea bridge, which is 34 miles long,
0:27:22 > 0:27:25in six years from start to finish.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29I would hope that we would certainly have the capability and the talent,
0:27:29 > 0:27:32the engineering and architectural talent in both countries to do it.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36I would certainly hope that we would have a building built,
0:27:36 > 0:27:38a bridge built by 2025 would certainly be within
0:27:38 > 0:27:40the realms of possibility.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43So a bridge for 2025 would be my catchphrase for this.
0:27:43 > 0:27:48Vanity project or wise investment?
0:27:48 > 0:27:51A bridge divides opinion and raises political and economic questions.
0:27:51 > 0:27:59Just as the original plans did nearly 150 years ago.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Stephen Walker reporting.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03Let's hear from tonight's commentators - Sam McBride
0:28:03 > 0:28:05from The News Letter and Allison Morris
0:28:05 > 0:28:09from The Irish News.
0:28:09 > 0:28:14They've been joined by our own political editor Mark Devonport.
0:28:14 > 0:28:19Let's go back to Brexit which is where we started. We heard from
0:28:19 > 0:28:21Emily Thornberry and Nigel Dodds, very different views on the draft
0:28:21 > 0:28:26treaty. Now just to move things on we've got a sense of what Theresa
0:28:26 > 0:28:31May is going to say in her Mansion house speech tomorrow, where does
0:28:31 > 0:28:34that leave us?Downing Street has briefed some broad principles that
0:28:34 > 0:28:41Theresa May will set out in this speech. It gives us a sense of the
0:28:41 > 0:28:46broad principles she will look towards. She says any kind of plan
0:28:46 > 0:28:50in the future must respect the result of the referendum. That's a
0:28:50 > 0:28:54reason why the government has ruled out staying in the customs union and
0:28:54 > 0:28:59the single market. They say it must be an enduring agreement, but it
0:28:59 > 0:29:05must protect jobs and security. Lastly, they talk about it bringing
0:29:05 > 0:29:10the country back together, which is obviously in general terms trying to
0:29:10 > 0:29:14bring remain and leave together which is still a bit of a fond hope
0:29:14 > 0:29:20at the moment. She also talks about representing all of the UK in this.
0:29:20 > 0:29:25Very broad brush staff and not the kind of granular detail that we got
0:29:25 > 0:29:30from the EU earlier in the week in relation to their fallback option.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33We heard Donald Tusk the president of the European Council met Theresa
0:29:33 > 0:29:37May today and said if you don't like what's on the table at the moment
0:29:37 > 0:29:40it's time to come up with a better idea. You've looked at the briefing
0:29:40 > 0:29:46as well, is the better idea in there so far as you can see?There's
0:29:46 > 0:29:51nothing in this, it is a lot of waffle about bringing people
0:29:51 > 0:29:56together, getting an open trade deal is possible. You can't leave the
0:29:56 > 0:30:00customs union and then have a free trade deal and a frictionless
0:30:00 > 0:30:07border. There's no mention of Northern Ireland. I knows these were
0:30:07 > 0:30:11only briefing notes but there's no mention of the border at all. At
0:30:11 > 0:30:16this point we had them did missing what was put forward as a suggestion
0:30:16 > 0:30:23by the agreed European Union -- we heard them dismissing but was put
0:30:23 > 0:30:27forward.Nigel Dodds very robust in his defence of the view that it is
0:30:27 > 0:30:31possible to square the circle, leaving the customs union and not
0:30:31 > 0:30:39having a hard border, east-west or north-south.He does say that is
0:30:39 > 0:30:43possible and that is consistent with a party that argued for Brexit and
0:30:43 > 0:30:48for a fairly robust Brexit, making a clean break and striking trade deals
0:30:48 > 0:30:52and all of that sort of rhetoric from the ardent Brexiteers. One of
0:30:52 > 0:30:57the interesting thing is the EU did is that it could either push the DUP
0:30:57 > 0:31:00in one of two directions. It could push it towards trying to keep the
0:31:00 > 0:31:05whole UK in the customs union and watered-down Brexit, it doesn't seem
0:31:05 > 0:31:12to be when Nigel Dodds is going with this. Or it could push them in a
0:31:12 > 0:31:21very different direction, where they say no deal is better for unionism
0:31:21 > 0:31:24even if economically it's problematic. That isn't something
0:31:24 > 0:31:28the DUP is saying at this point but if we get to the final stage of this
0:31:28 > 0:31:32and Theresa May can't come up with something more palatable, it's a big
0:31:32 > 0:31:38choice for Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds.Let's remind ourselves, the
0:31:38 > 0:31:42Westminster arithmetic is critical in this. The DUP has a clear
0:31:42 > 0:31:49position. Nidal -- Nigel Dodds came out firmly in support of what
0:31:49 > 0:31:54Theresa May said yesterday. There are people who will say at the end
0:31:54 > 0:31:58of the day the DUP voice is significant because the DUP tail is
0:31:58 > 0:32:02wagging the conservative dog. Theresa May is in hock to Arlene
0:32:02 > 0:32:07Foster and Nigel Dodds.Theresa May obviously needs DUP votes to stay in
0:32:07 > 0:32:10power but she is subject to force is coming in different directions.
0:32:10 > 0:32:16She's got the DUP insistent and hard Brexiteers insistent that she can't
0:32:16 > 0:32:23but on the customs union. But she has the moderate remain weighing in
0:32:23 > 0:32:27the Tory party joining together potentially with Labour in backing
0:32:27 > 0:32:32an amendment that would push some kind of customs union. That leaves
0:32:32 > 0:32:36her in a difficult position. One of the particular conundrum is that
0:32:36 > 0:32:40faces her if she sees the solution being the negotiation of this
0:32:40 > 0:32:43all-encompassing trade agreement which is effectively going to make
0:32:43 > 0:32:48the problems of the border go away. The EU went discussed that until she
0:32:48 > 0:32:53is signed up to the terms of a transition plan. Part of the terms
0:32:53 > 0:32:58put on the table is what we've seen which is totally unacceptable to the
0:32:58 > 0:33:03DUP. How does she get to this heaven of the great trade agreement that
0:33:03 > 0:33:06will make everything go away, without signing up to something that
0:33:06 > 0:33:14is unpalatable and may be impossible for her supporters?What about the
0:33:14 > 0:33:18other issue I talked to Nigel Dodds about, the possibility of getting
0:33:18 > 0:33:22Stormont talks back up and running. He said Mr stand-by blood makes it
0:33:22 > 0:33:26unlikely in the short-term. I asked the question about whether or not
0:33:26 > 0:33:33Foster might have handed a hard copy of the leaked document to Michelle
0:33:33 > 0:33:37O'Neill a couple of Fridays ago.It has followed the pattern we've seen
0:33:37 > 0:33:42from senior DUP members in the last two weeks since news of this draft
0:33:42 > 0:33:45leaked. He was comfortable speaking about Brexit and then you saw the
0:33:45 > 0:33:50body language change and he became defensive when you mentioned the
0:33:50 > 0:33:53draft deal. Whether he didn't know, whether he wasn't sure, and that
0:33:53 > 0:33:59would show what most people have speculated which is that there was a
0:33:59 > 0:34:05negotiation within the DUP.He was an important part of that
0:34:05 > 0:34:14negotiating team.We know that he said on this programme that he had
0:34:14 > 0:34:18constructed the draft deal. Nigel Dodds was rattled by that. If that
0:34:18 > 0:34:26was the case it blows out of the water this message on the Irish
0:34:26 > 0:34:31language act.He was deeply unconvincing and evasive. He had an
0:34:31 > 0:34:37opportunity to say this is simply nonsense, it didn't happen. It's
0:34:37 > 0:34:41quite telling. He said I'm not aware of it, he didn't say it didn't
0:34:41 > 0:34:47happen.You caught that bit at the end as well, does it move that
0:34:47 > 0:34:52debate on as to whether or not the DUP was preparing to do a deal on
0:34:52 > 0:34:58the Irish language and now says it isn't?The DUP commentary around
0:34:58 > 0:35:02this has been rather unconvincing and Nigel Dodds' performance in
0:35:02 > 0:35:06relation to those questions was a bit unconvincing in terms of the
0:35:06 > 0:35:11body language. It should also be seen in the context of publishing
0:35:11 > 0:35:16the header of an e-mail to light which contained the subject line
0:35:16 > 0:35:23draft agreement text. It was an e-mail from Simon Hamilton. One
0:35:23 > 0:35:27remembers the DUP was saying there was no such thing as a draft
0:35:27 > 0:35:33agreement. There seem to be e-mails headed "Draft agreement text" which
0:35:33 > 0:35:38again causes you to ask questions about what was going on.No sign of
0:35:38 > 0:35:43devolution any time soon?It doesn't appear Nigel Dodds is expecting it
0:35:43 > 0:35:47any time soon. Very hard for them to get their act together I would have
0:35:47 > 0:35:50thought in the coming months.Thank you.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52That's it from The View for this week.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58But before we go, we thought we'd share this little insight from one
0:35:58 > 0:36:00of our MPs that popped up on social media today.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02It just...reminded us of someone.
0:36:02 > 0:36:04Goodnight!
0:36:04 > 0:36:07Hello, welcome to room 65 in the upper committee corridor of
0:36:07 > 0:36:15Parliament.
0:36:35 > 0:36:43THE OFFICE THEME MUSIC.