:00:27. > :00:30.On The View tonight, 38 years since the Birmingham pub bombings, the
:00:31. > :00:34.families say they are all closer to finding out who was responsible. We
:00:34. > :00:39.hear from the sister of one of the victims who has called for a public
:00:39. > :00:43.inquiry. Closer to home, is this the best way to deal with the past?
:00:43. > :00:47.Also on the programme... I am on the north Antrim coast to
:00:47. > :00:50.look at the idea of this becoming a national park.
:00:51. > :00:56.We will have Environment Minister Alex Attwood in the studio. And
:00:56. > :01:06.with their views on those stories and headlines, our guests.
:01:06. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :01:14.The can also follow the programme 21 people died in the Birmingham
:01:14. > :01:19.pub bombings in 1974. Six men were jailed, but their convictions were
:01:19. > :01:26.quashed in 1981. Last week, a candle at the girl was held in the
:01:26. > :01:33.city. Julie Hamilton's sister, Maxine, was killed in the attacks.
:01:34. > :01:37.During has indeed studio is Ian Paisley Jnr and victims campaigner,
:01:37. > :01:43.John White. You had your candlelit vigil in
:01:43. > :01:48.Birmingham last night, part of your campaign to establish a public
:01:48. > :01:52.inquiry as -- into what happened. Was it a successful occasion?
:01:52. > :02:00.was a beautiful occasion. The Dean of Birmingham provided a service
:02:00. > :02:05.that was absolutely beautiful. We had a range of supporters who
:02:05. > :02:10.travelled from all over the UK to come and join us to remember a 21
:02:10. > :02:14.people who were taken away from one's fatigue eight years ago.
:02:14. > :02:24.What, precisely, are you campaigning for?
:02:24. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:29.We are campaigning for justice for 21 innocent people. It has been
:02:29. > :02:33.fatigued years, and the perpetrators are still at liberty.
:02:33. > :02:39.What sort of a society do we live and where we're supposed to be
:02:39. > :02:49.democratic but murderers who have killed 21 people are still free to
:02:49. > :02:49.
:02:49. > :02:53.walk the streets. -- it has been 38 years. It appears that the quality
:02:53. > :03:02.of the scales of justice is not balanced. You would like to see a
:03:02. > :03:07.public inquiry? Yes, we have written to a wide
:03:08. > :03:11.variety of MPs in the UK, and I must say, the Northern Ireland
:03:11. > :03:16.Assembly members have been absolutely superb, not wishing to
:03:16. > :03:21.sound sycophantic about this. But Mr Ian Paisley, who I believe is
:03:21. > :03:30.there, I would like to publicly thanked him and many of his members
:03:30. > :03:34.for their support. Only those who have suffered the loss of a loved
:03:34. > :03:40.one like we have can possibly understand. There are many in
:03:40. > :03:45.Northern Ireland, I can appreciate, who will know what I mean what I
:03:45. > :03:49.say you never get over that grief, you never get over that loss. We
:03:49. > :03:59.miss Maxene every single day. We love our lives, because that is
:03:59. > :03:59.
:03:59. > :04:03.what she would have wanted, but we cannot sit back now and not have
:04:03. > :04:06.the perpetrators brought to justice. Very briefly, the Prime Minister
:04:06. > :04:10.has said it there will be no more public inquiries on the scale of
:04:10. > :04:15.the Bloody Sunday inquiry, which cost �200 million. On the other
:04:15. > :04:19.hand, West Midlands police in July this year committed themselves to
:04:19. > :04:24.be examining the files to see if they can indeed identify the people
:04:24. > :04:30.responsible to -- for what happened 38 years ago. Isn't that
:04:30. > :04:35.significant progress? It is, but that only came about, in
:04:36. > :04:39.my personal opinion, from the power base of our supporters, who were
:04:39. > :04:47.writing to their MPs, who wear them writing to the Home Secretary,
:04:47. > :04:53.Theresa May, who then was writing back saying it was the place of the
:04:53. > :04:58.chief constable. He has yet to respond to any of the letters I
:04:58. > :05:00.have sent to him. Unfortunately, the last letter I sent to him, he
:05:00. > :05:06.forward and that to can he Bell, the head of the counter-terrorism
:05:06. > :05:10.unit. -- he said that on to can he Bell.
:05:11. > :05:14.A you have heard what Julie has to say, Ian Paisley, you are backing a
:05:15. > :05:19.campaign. Are you calling for a public inquiry?
:05:19. > :05:24.Julie has had almost 40 years of suffering, and her family, and the
:05:24. > :05:31.relatives of the 21, have had 40 years of terrible anguish, and they
:05:32. > :05:37.note -- now need support. We spent �37 million per year on policing
:05:37. > :05:41.the past through historical increase, through inquests, through
:05:41. > :05:46.the police money we put into all that. We have actually found a way
:05:46. > :05:49.of trying to address this without war public increase. The Troubles
:05:49. > :05:53.extended themselves to the best of the UK, and Julie and her family
:05:53. > :05:56.and those relatives have been left with nothing, so they need that
:05:56. > :06:01.mechanism. It means the Prime Minister has to revisit his
:06:01. > :06:07.decision and say a public inquiry is ahead or there is another
:06:08. > :06:12.mechanism. Let embrace our campaign and if the Historical Enquiries
:06:12. > :06:16.Team can do something to help, let them help. Is it possible the
:06:16. > :06:22.mechanism may be the extension of the remit of these historical
:06:22. > :06:28.enquiries Fiji as we know, they are limited -- the Historical Enquiries
:06:28. > :06:33.Team. As we know, they are limited to Northop -- to Northern Ireland.
:06:33. > :06:36.I don't care about the mechanics that are used and the niceties. The
:06:37. > :06:42.relatives want justice and truth, and as Julie said, the people who
:06:42. > :06:47.murdered in cold blood her sister and the other relatives, they are
:06:47. > :06:51.entitled to have justice. Therefore, let get on with it. But is that a
:06:51. > :06:56.mechanism due would encourage -- encourage the powers that be to
:06:56. > :07:03.examine? I think the Prime Minister should leave no stone unturned in
:07:03. > :07:07.this campaign. We have already put some pressure on Keir Starmer, the
:07:07. > :07:10.Director of Public Prosecutions. I intend to make a motion in front of
:07:10. > :07:15.the national Parliament, and I intend to push the Prime Minister
:07:15. > :07:20.and galvanise MPs to recognise they have a responsibility to get truth
:07:20. > :07:28.and justice for these families. Good white, you are victims
:07:28. > :07:32.campaigner and you lost your mother during the Troubles. -- Jude White.
:07:32. > :07:37.Do you have a lot of sympathy with what we have heard from Julie
:07:37. > :07:41.tonight? Absolutely, the troubled were not
:07:41. > :07:46.complain -- confined to this part of the UK. When I think of
:07:46. > :07:51.Birmingham, I think of two things. I think of one of the most
:07:51. > :07:55.appalling of indiscriminate attacks on civilians. It was a disgrace. I
:07:55. > :08:00.also think of the subsequent disgraceful treatment of six
:08:00. > :08:09.innocent men who spent years in prison, alone and isolated, after
:08:09. > :08:14.being brutalised. Once you think of an incident like Birmingham, it
:08:14. > :08:18.manifests the complex nature of what we're trying to do here,
:08:18. > :08:21.dealing with the past. I do not believe the Historical Enquiries
:08:21. > :08:31.Team will get to the bottom of this particular incident for a number of
:08:31. > :08:32.
:08:32. > :08:38.reasons. But least, resources. Not least. And the time gap. As a
:08:38. > :08:42.campaigner, I have every sympathy with Julie in her bereavement.
:08:42. > :08:45.Would it be worth trying to see if the Historical Enquiries Team could
:08:45. > :08:52.uncover information that may lead to the successful prosecution of
:08:52. > :08:55.individuals who were responsible? suspect not. Hardly a week goes by
:08:55. > :09:00.over here that one family will be going to the media complaining they
:09:00. > :09:05.are very unhappy with what the Historical Enquiries Team have done.
:09:05. > :09:08.The other side of the coin is, I know some people who will be very
:09:08. > :09:12.complimentary of what the Historical Enquiries Team have done,
:09:12. > :09:16.but it is a piecemeal approach. There needs to be an overarching
:09:16. > :09:21.process? Some kind of truth and reconciliation commission?
:09:21. > :09:25.Absolutely. The problem extends to Birmingham, the South of Ireland,
:09:25. > :09:30.also to Europe where there were many incidents, as well. We need a
:09:30. > :09:35.mechanism to deal with the past. In short, we need people to come and
:09:35. > :09:38.tell their story and tell the truth, and if appropriate apologise. If
:09:39. > :09:43.the victims feel it is appropriate, they can accept that apology.
:09:43. > :09:47.However, the Prix recruit -- prerequisite to all of us, nobody
:09:47. > :09:50.is going to do anything unless it is done for them.
:09:50. > :09:58.You have had people calling for this kind of umbrella Commission in
:09:58. > :10:02.the past. Isn't it the case that unless everybody says that together,
:10:02. > :10:08.the truth will only cover at best be partial.
:10:08. > :10:12.Nor Mac. Two issues arise here. Many people both on the mainland
:10:12. > :10:16.and here in Northern Ireland have pulled a brain -- blind over the
:10:16. > :10:19.Birmingham case because of the Birmingham Six case. People have
:10:19. > :10:23.said we do not want to visit that any more because of the
:10:23. > :10:28.implications that has. People are now lifting that curtain up and
:10:28. > :10:34.saying, we have to get justice for these 21, and if we do not get
:10:34. > :10:44.justice we're irresponsible in our approach. Secondly, if the 8GT, or
:10:44. > :10:45.
:10:45. > :10:49.any other mechanism -- HET, if it uncovers any evidence at all it
:10:49. > :10:52.must be made available to the Birmingham authorities. That is why
:10:52. > :10:56.I have been speaking to the Director of Public Prosecutions and
:10:56. > :11:00.the Prime Minister as saying, it is up to you to find a way for these
:11:00. > :11:03.families. Do you think the day will ever come
:11:03. > :11:10.where we see a truth and reconciliation commission, the
:11:10. > :11:14.likes of which you would ideally As I get older, I become more
:11:14. > :11:21.pessimistic about it. I, like many people, who were not added extras
:11:21. > :11:23.in this conflict, will be dead. I see it as the only real way this
:11:23. > :11:26.conflict can never be bought -- brought to an end. People need to
:11:26. > :11:30.know what happened to their relatives will stop there are
:11:30. > :11:35.people out there who can tell them but they must be brought into this
:11:35. > :11:45.process, and there has to be consideration for a general amnesty.
:11:45. > :11:48.Still to come... All eyes are on Fermanagh as the
:11:48. > :11:54.GAA leaders head there, but will they bring more attention that we
:11:54. > :11:57.may have bargained for? -- the G 8 leaders.
:11:58. > :12:01.The Environment Minister has been asked to think again about his
:12:01. > :12:06.proposal for a national park here. Alex Attwood thinks the development
:12:06. > :12:09.would safeguard and market our natural beauty spots, but those
:12:09. > :12:19.opposed fear it would create an unnecessary and expensive public
:12:19. > :12:26.
:12:26. > :12:31.body. Our correspondent has been to What a view. The Environment
:12:31. > :12:35.Minister says this kind of area is ideal for a national park to
:12:35. > :12:40.bolster jobs and bring more tourists. But those who live and
:12:40. > :12:44.work on the land see it as a bad idea. The difficulty extends from
:12:44. > :12:49.this being privately owned land, not like the majority of places
:12:49. > :12:53.where national parks are publicly- owned land. It is a living
:12:53. > :12:59.community and a thriving farming area, and we don't think it is
:12:59. > :13:04.suitable. There are fears of more red tape and accidents on farms if
:13:04. > :13:07.ramblers are allowed to wander. There are no farmers here I know
:13:07. > :13:11.against tourism, we work closely with two is all the time and I
:13:11. > :13:16.don't see them as a problem. The Minister is saying there will be
:13:16. > :13:19.more tourism jobs. If the area was correctly marketed, we have no need
:13:19. > :13:29.of this national park label. It is a view echoed by another
:13:29. > :13:39.
:13:39. > :13:44.All the businesses we have lobbied are in opposition.
:13:44. > :13:47.Farmers are not the only ones concerned. The owners of this
:13:48. > :13:53.caravan park are eager to promote tourism but say and national park
:13:53. > :14:00.is not the answer. We do not need more regulation. And we need better
:14:01. > :14:08.regulation and less red tape. We are all ready custodians of this
:14:08. > :14:18.land. We are the best ones who know how to manage it. The ministry here
:14:18. > :14:26.
:14:26. > :14:30.is a conservation area -- the mean at St -- the main street. They say
:14:30. > :14:39.the best thing about what help is to untangle bureaucracy around
:14:40. > :14:43.planning. And reduce VAT. But what about the minister such argument
:14:44. > :14:49.that Northern Ireland is the only region of the UK that does not have
:14:49. > :14:54.a national park? It is the only part of the UK that does not have a
:14:54. > :14:58.nuclear power station and we do not one of want one of those either.
:14:58. > :15:03.The Fermanagh Lakelands are also a potential area for a national park,
:15:03. > :15:09.but it seems there is a preference it to build on the current scheme.
:15:09. > :15:15.Most people are totally opposed to a national park in Fermanagh. We
:15:15. > :15:25.have a geo-park which works extremely well. It does not have
:15:25. > :15:26.
:15:26. > :15:29.the complications of a national park and the additional bureaucracy.
:15:29. > :15:34.The view is that we will see investment in the communities. It
:15:34. > :15:43.is not just about sustaining the environment, but sustaining their
:15:43. > :15:47.community and the local economy. In Wales, there are three national
:15:47. > :15:57.parks and there has been a big investment through GDP and over
:15:57. > :16:01.
:16:01. > :16:08.1000 jobs because of it. There has been other advice as well. We were
:16:08. > :16:10.told by colleagues in the Brecon Beacons to bolster or are
:16:10. > :16:15.opposition and stop it before it happens. There is a warning that
:16:15. > :16:25.house prices will rise out of reach of locals. Where does that leave
:16:25. > :16:26.
:16:26. > :16:29.the minister's plan? He says he is taking stock.
:16:29. > :16:36.Martina Purdy reporting. And the Environment Minister, Alex Attwood,
:16:36. > :16:44.is with me now. So where are we now? We have 64,000 people out of
:16:44. > :16:52.to work, we will have 84,000 people out of work soon, we have the next
:16:52. > :16:58.of cuts at the European budget, what I have to do it as a Mr Izmit
:16:58. > :17:06.turnover every stone to see if I can create jobs. -- what I have to
:17:06. > :17:11.do as a minister. How are we going to find opportunities to grow work,
:17:11. > :17:21.especially tourism, given that our natural heritage is or single
:17:21. > :17:28.biggest asset? How does a national park create jobs? People still come
:17:28. > :17:33.to the Fermanagh Lakelands, to the causeway. If you look at the
:17:33. > :17:39.figures in the north of Ireland, we hope to grow to ism to make it a
:17:39. > :17:49.would build empower under your industry. -- to make it a billion
:17:49. > :17:51.
:17:51. > :18:00.pound a year industry. Evidence suggests that if you have big
:18:00. > :18:05.culture events, that brings people him. And at the label National
:18:05. > :18:12.Park's... It is already bringing people them. People are going to
:18:12. > :18:18.come for the UK Capital of Culture anyway. It is irrelevant. It is not
:18:18. > :18:22.relevant. The evidence suggests that if you have a national park,
:18:22. > :18:28.it defines it that area at him at special terms and people come and
:18:28. > :18:34.bigger numbers, spend more and stay longer. 700 people at a public
:18:34. > :18:44.meeting last night in Bala Castle are not at all happy about the idea
:18:44. > :18:44.
:18:44. > :18:49.of a national park being imposed I accept that there is a lot of
:18:49. > :18:59.opposition, but I also think there is a lot of quiet support. I could
:18:59. > :19:02.
:19:02. > :19:05.give you many examples of letters from South Down supporting it.
:19:05. > :19:14.we have heard that all the businesses in the north coast
:19:14. > :19:21.against it. And others are in favour of it. There is a lot of
:19:21. > :19:25.opposition, that is why I will have to look again, to see how I can
:19:26. > :19:32.build support for the strategy that I want to develop that sees the
:19:32. > :19:36.growth of tourism and other jobs opportunities. What does look again
:19:36. > :19:44.actually mean your going to do? I can persuade people that we need
:19:45. > :19:54.to have bigger and bolder strategy is to protect our heritage and good
:19:55. > :19:59.
:19:59. > :20:02.jobs -- and go jobs... Farmers say very clearly, if you create a
:20:02. > :20:10.national park, they experience across the water is that house
:20:10. > :20:16.prices go up, land prices go down and older, retired people move into
:20:16. > :20:19.the area and jobs are not created. That is not the experience of
:20:19. > :20:25.National parks in Britain. The experience in Britain is that it
:20:25. > :20:29.does grow jobs. We heard of a farmer in the Brecon Beacons to
:20:29. > :20:33.said they do not touch it with a bargepole. And there were many
:20:33. > :20:42.farmers from other national parks areas in Britain who would give you
:20:42. > :20:48.a different story. Are you going to go to public meetings and try to
:20:48. > :20:55.persuade people? I would try to persuade people that in a situation
:20:56. > :21:01.where we are facing 85,000 people out of work, the potential of cuts
:21:01. > :21:10.in cap money so, the difficulties around recession, we must turn over
:21:10. > :21:16.every stone to create jobs. It is quite clear that the opposition to
:21:16. > :21:21.the concept of national parks is quite significant. But there is not
:21:21. > :21:30.opposition to the concept of trying to grow rural jobs. That is my job,
:21:30. > :21:40.to create the rural opportunities. When will you make the decision?
:21:40. > :21:44.
:21:44. > :21:49.have met people private -- private and I will not give up my argument
:21:49. > :21:55.of tried to create more jobs in the rural committees. Just give us some
:21:55. > :21:59.idea of a date, or will it be before Christmas? No, it will lobby
:21:59. > :22:07.before Christmas. It will be my obligation to try to persuade
:22:07. > :22:15.people off where we need to go in terms of growing our rural economy.
:22:15. > :22:23.I will not be able to convince rural communities of the National
:22:23. > :22:33.parks, but I will not give up on their attempt to grow jobs. Thank
:22:33. > :22:35.
:22:35. > :22:38.you. So Fermanagh is to host a gathering
:22:38. > :22:41.of world leaders. Who would seriously have imagined that? But
:22:41. > :22:43.next June, Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron and other members of the G8
:22:43. > :22:46.group will be enjoying the pleasures of the Lakeland county.
:22:46. > :22:56.Of course the annual G8 summit doesn't just attract the attention
:22:56. > :23:03.
:23:03. > :23:08.Canada, France, Germany, the USA, Italy, the G8 summit brings
:23:08. > :23:15.together the leaders of some of the world's largest economies to
:23:15. > :23:20.discuss global issues. It is an informal policy former added
:23:20. > :23:24.nothing is binding on the membership. With the world's
:23:24. > :23:31.leadership in one place, the world's media is also gathered.
:23:31. > :23:39.Come June, of Fermanagh will be the focus of attention. Focus groups
:23:39. > :23:49.will also be there. There have been serious clashes with police over
:23:49. > :23:50.
:23:50. > :23:54.the years. With the security is so tight, how much the world's
:23:54. > :23:57.opinion-formers will see offer man at remains open to question.
:23:57. > :23:59.Joining me now to discuss that and the rest of the week's political
:24:00. > :24:05.news are commentators Fionnuala O Connor and Pete Shirlow.
:24:05. > :24:15.Is it a good decision to have it in Fermanagh? Probably, but it will
:24:15. > :24:17.
:24:17. > :24:23.not have such a big impact. Do you think that this figure of �100
:24:23. > :24:32.million are generated for the local economy make sense? There will be
:24:32. > :24:41.an upsurge of hotels and restaurants filled. Quite a lot of
:24:41. > :24:48.people outside if you do not know that there is a place cold Northern
:24:48. > :24:56.Ireland. -- called Northern Ireland. A vet bills a large could tell that
:24:56. > :24:59.is in administration, that might be something.
:24:59. > :25:07.Do think they Historical Enquiries Team it should extend its remit to
:25:07. > :25:13.investigate some of these issues? To someone like Julie Hambleton, it
:25:13. > :25:23.must be unfair and illogical that the acronym's the met are just
:25:23. > :25:25.
:25:25. > :25:31.extends to Northern Ireland. -- the HET's be met. But the historical
:25:31. > :25:36.inquiries team is strapped for cash, so it is hard to see how we can
:25:36. > :25:42.take on any more. Historical Enquiries Team, cold
:25:42. > :25:52.case reviews, there are all kinds of options there. There are options,
:25:52. > :25:55.
:25:55. > :26:00.but no process. One of the things or the idea was that a lot of
:26:00. > :26:07.people make is that courts is not a place to understand the context of
:26:07. > :26:13.a conflict. Very much, you are a narrowing of the reason for a
:26:13. > :26:23.conflict. Reconciliation is important and is probably a better
:26:23. > :26:26.
:26:26. > :26:36.way to go. What caught your eye this week?
:26:36. > :26:38.
:26:38. > :26:46.John McAllister calling for opposition at Stormont. A lot of
:26:46. > :26:51.people asking questions. If we had more bite in the Assembly, it would
:26:51. > :27:01.create a more and stronger sense that we have moved on from where we
:27:01. > :27:06.
:27:06. > :27:15.wear. John McAllister mention that. You moment of the week? Another sad
:27:15. > :27:21.moment for Women. It was a Church of England's decision not to go
:27:21. > :27:28.ahead with the women bishops. It looks as though it may well
:27:28. > :27:35.splinter. A Guardian reporter who has followed it for a long time he
:27:35. > :27:41.said he thought that the Church of England had committed suicide. One
:27:41. > :27:51.woman priest said, having listened to the arguments, said it would be
:27:51. > :27:58.
:27:58. > :28:03.great if from the beginning men and women had shared authority roles.
:28:03. > :28:12.Those who oppose women bishops have used the argument that Jesus did
:28:12. > :28:18.not choose women disciples. What do you anticipate to be that
:28:18. > :28:24.highlight of the coming week? as an enquiry. It has been looking
:28:24. > :28:27.into the haul ethics of the media. It will bring up some interesting
:28:28. > :28:33.questions about the freedom of the press.