:00:27. > :00:32.Tonight, we have two big political hitters on the programme: one past
:00:32. > :00:35.one present. Theresa Villiers, the new Secretary of State, just a few
:00:35. > :00:39.weeks into the job, gives her first live television interview.
:00:39. > :00:47.On the eve of the covenant centenary, Lord Bannside looks back
:00:47. > :00:50.at Carson's legacy, lock, stock and barrel. That is one of the wooden
:00:50. > :00:53.guns that the person supplied his men with.
:00:53. > :00:57.Our commentators look back at the week that has been and ahead at
:00:57. > :01:05.what is still to come. And in other news, I will reveal
:01:05. > :01:12.which Emily once they Esat another. You can follow the programme on
:01:12. > :01:15.Twitter. -- which then held a once they be sat another.
:01:15. > :01:18.It was three weeks ago that David Cameron called his transport
:01:18. > :01:22.minister Theresa Villiers into Number Ten to give her the good
:01:22. > :01:27.news that he wanted her to join the Cabinet. How did she react when she
:01:27. > :01:30.found out it was the Northern Ireland job that was on offer?
:01:30. > :01:36.First, a quick look at the politicians to have had that same
:01:36. > :01:41.call up during the years. The current position of Secretary
:01:41. > :01:45.of State was introduced with direct rule in 1972 and since then a total
:01:45. > :01:50.of 18 people have held that post. Some Secretaries of State have had
:01:50. > :01:55.more success for runs than others, some have been accident prone. In
:01:55. > :01:58.1992, Peter Brooke signed my darling Clementine up on the Late
:01:58. > :02:03.Show on the day that eight Protestant civilians had been
:02:03. > :02:09.killed. He was replaced sharply after. His successor, Patrick
:02:09. > :02:16.Mayhew, also proved gaffe-prone after a comment after Sears rising.
:02:16. > :02:20.At the end of this opera, everyone is dead. It is a very serious thing
:02:20. > :02:29.from what I hear. There was a complete change of tone
:02:29. > :02:33.when after the 1997 Labour win, Maugham took up residence. Popular
:02:33. > :02:38.with the public, she was not loved by Unionist politicians who thought
:02:38. > :02:44.her bias towards -- who thought she was biased towards national list.
:02:44. > :02:49.Now, another woman has taken the keys of Hillsborough Castle.
:02:49. > :02:53.Welcome to review. Thank you. did you feel when the Prime
:02:53. > :02:56.Minister offered you the Northern Ireland job? I was delighted, very
:02:56. > :03:00.excited. When you get told these things there is an agony of
:03:00. > :03:03.suspense as you are waiting for the Prime Minister to get to the end of
:03:03. > :03:07.his sentence to see what the job is, and I was really pleased when he
:03:07. > :03:16.said it was Northern Ireland. Honestly? No sense of
:03:16. > :03:20.disappointment gym not at all, I did not expect a motion. We all
:03:20. > :03:23.speculate madly before a reshuffle, and you are poring over the
:03:23. > :03:27.possible options, and I had thought that Northern Ireland would be a
:03:27. > :03:32.great, great job to do. But you did not have any inkling that this is
:03:32. > :03:35.what he would offer a few? Know, I had started to get positive
:03:35. > :03:39.feedback and thought that the news might be good in the day or so
:03:39. > :03:42.before the reshuffle, but I had no idea what it would actually be.
:03:42. > :03:46.must have been disappointed, you were a Shadow Transport Secretary
:03:46. > :03:49.and do not make it into the Cabinet because the Prime Minister had to
:03:49. > :03:53.share the positions out with the model Democrats or in coalition
:03:53. > :03:57.with your party, so you lost out. You must have been disappointed.
:03:57. > :03:59.The good news is that you have made it to the Cabinet. I was
:03:59. > :04:03.disappointed when I did not make it into the cupboard when the
:04:03. > :04:06.coalition Government was formed, but the experience of being
:04:06. > :04:09.Transport Minister was great and I have learned a huge amount. It
:04:09. > :04:14.makes me better-equipped now to do the job I have been given.
:04:14. > :04:18.question is, how up to speed were due on Northern Ireland politics
:04:18. > :04:23.before you walk into the office and got the job? I certainly wasn't an
:04:23. > :04:26.expert, like anyone in UK politics and was aware of the developments
:04:26. > :04:31.in Northern Ireland and had followed the long process that led
:04:31. > :04:34.to devolution and peace in Northern Ireland, so I was certainly
:04:34. > :04:37.resupply up to speak but of course I have learned a lot in the few
:04:37. > :04:42.weeks has been appointed. It is a big job, but not as big a
:04:42. > :04:47.job as it was in the past now that we have devolution. What at the
:04:47. > :04:52.Dick pressing issues in Europe remained? Boosting the Northern
:04:52. > :04:56.Ireland economy is crucial, support for the devolved institutions and
:04:56. > :04:58.also the goal that I have in helping keeping people in a
:04:58. > :05:01.Northern Ireland safe and secure, because there are some security
:05:01. > :05:05.responsibilities that are still retained by the United Kingdom
:05:05. > :05:10.Government. Les Stocker that corporation tax, I gather that
:05:10. > :05:14.you're at the CBI lunch today and you had your ear bent by many
:05:14. > :05:19.people in the business community who wanted to be get happy to get
:05:19. > :05:24.the level down. Were you surprised? I was unsurprised at will, their
:05:24. > :05:26.message was loud and very clear. Almost everyone I have met since
:05:26. > :05:31.becoming Northern Ireland Secretary has raised this issue and I know
:05:31. > :05:34.how important it is, as I have made very clear. I would like to make
:05:34. > :05:38.this change happen and I will make the case with my colleagues in
:05:38. > :05:42.Government. So you would like to see it happen? I certainly would
:05:42. > :05:46.like to see it happen, there are some quite difficult technical and
:05:46. > :05:50.practical issues and it would also be a significant constitutional
:05:50. > :05:53.change, so we cannot yet say what the incision of the Prime Minister
:05:53. > :05:56.will be on this but I will make sure he is well aware of the strong
:05:56. > :06:00.support for the change in Northern Ireland. Let's be clear, Simon
:06:00. > :06:04.Hamilton who is going to be the next finance minister instalment
:06:04. > :06:08.sat in the siege you are sitting in last week on the view and he said
:06:08. > :06:12.that he needs Theresa Villiers to be a real persuader for a reduction
:06:12. > :06:18.in corporation tax, it is not enough for you to be neutral, he
:06:18. > :06:23.wants you to fly the flag. That is what you're doing? Yes, I will be a
:06:23. > :06:26.persuader, I am already engaged in conversations with my colleagues in
:06:27. > :06:30.Government about the merits of this change, as I have said, I would
:06:30. > :06:34.like to see it happen. We do not yet know whether it is going to be
:06:34. > :06:38.possible to make it happen because of the practical concerns and the
:06:38. > :06:42.wider constitutional issues. What about the Treasury? The Treasury,
:06:42. > :06:45.not surprisingly, is playing hardball and there is a discrepancy
:06:45. > :06:50.in the figures that the Northern Ireland team have put into the
:06:50. > :06:55.Treasury. Do the maths add up? Is it worth the gambit for the
:06:55. > :07:01.potential benefit? Much work has been done on the practicalities of
:07:01. > :07:05.how it would work, and active real credit to the work that has been
:07:05. > :07:09.done by the Treasury on this. you think it'll happen? I cannot
:07:09. > :07:12.yet say what decision the Prime Minister will make on this, because
:07:12. > :07:18.as I have set it could be a bit changed and there are some very
:07:18. > :07:22.difficult issues around this change. Better than fifty-fifty? I will not
:07:22. > :07:26.get into speculation about that kind of thing, I will put the case
:07:26. > :07:31.had been the persuader that I'm being asked to be. What about the
:07:31. > :07:35.issue of legislative change to allow a proper constituted
:07:35. > :07:41.opposition at Stormont? There is a crop -- process of consultation
:07:42. > :07:46.your predecessor stepped what is due in November, do you think that
:07:47. > :07:52.is a movie would be supportive of? I think as the Prime Minister said
:07:52. > :07:55.when he was in Northern Ireland, there is a case for looking at a
:07:55. > :08:00.more normalisation of Northern Ireland politics, but any change
:08:00. > :08:04.would have to come and stroll cross-party consensus and it would
:08:04. > :08:08.have to continue to embrace the principles of power sharing and
:08:08. > :08:12.inclusiveness. They have responsibility for the parading
:08:12. > :08:16.issue at the moment, it seems to be a bit of an intractable issue,
:08:16. > :08:22.there is a lot of nervousness ahead of Saturday's covenant great, are
:08:22. > :08:27.you concerned? I think everyone is nervous about how it will go on
:08:27. > :08:30.Saturday, but I also think that huge efforts have gone into
:08:30. > :08:38.dialogue, to conversations, huge efforts are going into trying to
:08:38. > :08:46.ensure that it is an occasion that can be commemorated or risk -- and
:08:46. > :08:51.looked at any Toland way. The plan is that the marchers will
:08:51. > :08:56.take full responsibility themselves? A devolved solution
:08:56. > :08:59.would be preferable, the Government has always been open to that. If
:08:59. > :09:03.there are proposals that would command cross-party support we are
:09:03. > :09:06.prepared to look at them, we would like to see a move to a devolved
:09:06. > :09:10.solution, but it has not proved possible so far.
:09:10. > :09:12.Your colleague Andrew Mitchell, the Chief Whip, is rarely out of the
:09:12. > :09:17.papers these days, he is under pressure for allegedly calling to
:09:17. > :09:21.Downing Street will be spent leads when they would not wheel has --
:09:21. > :09:28.would not let him read his bicycle out of the main gates. Have you
:09:28. > :09:31.ever told anyone apes that? It is not a word that I would use. Do you
:09:31. > :09:36.think that Andrew Mitchell is telling the full truth when he said
:09:36. > :09:40.he did not use that word? Beer so adamant that he debt. I am sure he
:09:40. > :09:45.is telling the truth, he has been very clear that he did not use the
:09:45. > :09:52.language that is attributed to him. He is telling the truth then the
:09:52. > :09:56.two policemen are -- two policemen have got it wrong. He has
:09:56. > :10:02.apologised and clearly flew off the handle, he has apologised. I think
:10:02. > :10:04.we must draw a line under it. just the kind of language that a
:10:04. > :10:09.senior member of the Government should be using, as the respect to
:10:09. > :10:13.anyone. He has apologised, and as he has said, he did not use the
:10:13. > :10:18.language attributed to him. might be slightly cross with you,
:10:18. > :10:20.because I gather whenever you left the Prime Minister, whenever he
:10:21. > :10:25.offered to the Northern Ireland job, if you were allowed to wield your
:10:25. > :10:30.bicycle outside the main gates. was. Why did you get favourable
:10:30. > :10:34.treatment? I don't know, but the sad thing is that is when -- that
:10:34. > :10:39.is the last time I was able to ride my bike, I have been in a bullet-
:10:39. > :10:43.proof car ever since. I am talking to find a way to bring it back but
:10:43. > :10:47.I'm not sure. You have a big garden at Hillsborough Castle, you can
:10:47. > :10:49.cycle around that. We will talk again, but must leave
:10:49. > :10:54.it there for now. Thank you. Thank you.
:10:54. > :11:01.Still to come, we have heard what Rees of ILEA sticks, but how would
:11:01. > :11:03.you feel about being called a lead. Some people of certain background
:11:03. > :11:12.might take offence to it, but if someone calls me that then it
:11:12. > :11:16.wouldn't bother me. A tomorrow is also today, 100 years
:11:16. > :11:19.ago 1,000 should their opposition to Home Rule by signing the Ulster
:11:19. > :11:24.solemn League and Covenant. Unionism has had many leaders and
:11:24. > :11:28.for the past four decades one figure has stood out. For many, Ian
:11:28. > :11:31.Paisley is the very personification of Unionism. He gives few
:11:31. > :11:41.interviews these days but her political reporter has been
:11:41. > :11:43.
:11:43. > :11:53.His home is an Aladdin's cave for students of history. There are
:11:53. > :11:58.
:11:58. > :12:08.books and weapons from days gone by. That is one of the wooden guns. The
:12:08. > :12:08.
:12:08. > :12:16.volunteers use them. How long have you had that? About 50 years.
:12:16. > :12:21.clear the covenant and Edward Carson mean much to him. It was a
:12:21. > :12:30.tremendous story. Somebody had written a story like that and said
:12:30. > :12:34.its was a good story, but we are dealing with facts and multitudes
:12:34. > :12:42.of people. We are dealing with something that can never have
:12:42. > :12:52.happened if there had not been an Edward Carson. You think Unionists
:12:52. > :12:52.
:12:52. > :12:56.and nationalists can take something from this? I think they can. It is
:12:57. > :13:06.important in the time we are passing through in our six counties
:13:06. > :13:15.to be reminded to of how this came about, the determination of Our
:13:15. > :13:21.Fathers, to see the country not tied up and imprisoned in
:13:22. > :13:28.republicanism, but to stay within the United Kingdom and under the
:13:28. > :13:33.Queen. When you went into power- sharing with Sinn Fein, do you
:13:33. > :13:43.think that is something Edward Carson would have approved of?
:13:43. > :13:44.
:13:44. > :13:54.think it would have been. When we entered power sharing, it in no way
:13:54. > :13:55.
:13:55. > :14:01.touched the union and the union's Foundation and its strength. People
:14:01. > :14:10.knew that Ian Paisley was not going to surrender anything. What do you
:14:10. > :14:19.think he would have made of the state of unionism today? I would
:14:19. > :14:24.have thought he would have felt like shutting up a large number of
:14:24. > :14:34.Unionists who are weak on the matter of the preservation of the
:14:34. > :14:44.Union. I think he would engage himself with those who said the
:14:44. > :14:49.union must come first. Do you have concerns about Saturday's parade?
:14:49. > :14:59.Any parade in Northern Ireland out the present time needs to be
:14:59. > :15:04.
:15:04. > :15:11.carefully handled. And this celebration needs to be well
:15:11. > :15:20.organised and all things kept legally the way they should be kept.
:15:20. > :15:26.I think it is a sad thing that in such a demonstration we should have
:15:26. > :15:36.the arguments that have been put forward, that the Orangemen and the
:15:36. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:49.rest of us must explain and ask is it all right for us to play a
:15:49. > :15:54.
:15:54. > :16:01.gospel here -- gospel hymn. I believe in civil and religious
:16:01. > :16:07.liberty for all, and I think I have the right to walk past a building
:16:07. > :16:14.and if I am singing something, I have a right to do that, provided I
:16:14. > :16:20.am not trying to incite anyone. What about those who say the Orange
:16:20. > :16:30.Order should beach out more to residents? I do not think the
:16:30. > :16:40.Orange Order is aggressively opposing people. Ulster people are
:16:40. > :16:40.
:16:40. > :16:46.sensible people. They are a loving people. They might be blamed for
:16:46. > :16:54.been strong in their arguments. And in their beliefs, and so they are.
:16:54. > :16:59.That does not make a man an evil man. He will mark the Covenant
:16:59. > :17:03.centenary by watching the parade, something that was not able to be
:17:03. > :17:12.thought of seven months ago when he was critically ill. Many people
:17:12. > :17:17.will be interested in your health, how are you? I am very well. God
:17:17. > :17:24.has been gracious. He has answered the prayers of thousands of people
:17:24. > :17:29.across the whole world, who have written to me and said, we remember
:17:29. > :17:38.due in prayer. Those prayers have been answered. I do not look a sick
:17:39. > :17:45.man, do why? And man said to me the other day, your blooming. We have
:17:45. > :17:55.seen you at public events, will we see more of you? You will indeed.
:17:55. > :17:57.
:17:57. > :18:03.It is important and it is important to me because if I had been living
:18:03. > :18:13.in the days of that I would have been signing up. I will be
:18:13. > :18:15.
:18:15. > :18:20.returning to the House. They do not have elections in that House. They
:18:20. > :18:30.are beyond democratic rule! We can get a different view of
:18:30. > :18:30.
:18:30. > :18:34.political life now. In other news this week it has
:18:34. > :18:38.emerged that DUP member Terence Brannigan sat on the May's
:18:38. > :18:45.Development Corporation appointments panel, stood down, was
:18:45. > :18:50.replaced, applied for a job on the board. Sinn Fein said it had nobody
:18:50. > :18:55.-- no objection to any one tunnelling in. The Parades
:18:55. > :19:05.Commission said the parade can only play hymns when it passes St
:19:05. > :19:06.
:19:06. > :19:16.Patrick's. God Save the Queen is a hymn. And MLA of the DUP paid
:19:16. > :19:20.
:19:21. > :19:26.tribute. I have known Nelson He might have something to sleep
:19:27. > :19:31.with that Beach Boys lullaby! To the tune of God Save the Queen! The
:19:31. > :19:37.object seen across Northern Ireland last weekend before disintegrating
:19:37. > :19:41.was obviously Mike Nesbitt! There are no reports of an impact.
:19:41. > :19:47.Belfast will get a new investment in its mobile telephone and
:19:47. > :19:57.internet services. Experts say that as Orangemen get fatter, we need
:19:57. > :20:07.
:20:07. > :20:09.more bandwidth. Sinn Fein map -- To put his mind at rest, this is a
:20:09. > :20:18.picture of Dublin. It is my picture of Dublin. It is my
:20:18. > :20:25.favourite overseas destination! And now we can hear from our
:20:25. > :20:27.regular team of commentators. Listening to the Secretary of State
:20:27. > :20:34.Theresa Villiers, anything particularly grabbing your
:20:34. > :20:39.attention? It was hardly surprising she said she felt it would be ideal
:20:39. > :20:44.if the parades issue was a devolved issue. That would be one of the
:20:44. > :20:54.things I would want out of my in- tray if I were her and commentators
:20:54. > :20:54.
:20:54. > :20:58.are saying it should be devolved issue. Local politicians point the
:20:58. > :21:02.finger at the Parades Commission yet want to take no responsibility
:21:02. > :21:09.for decisions that should be made at a local level. On the issue of
:21:09. > :21:15.parades, we are no closer to becoming a devolved matter. Though
:21:15. > :21:23.were proposals two years ago that the Orange Order vetoed. They are
:21:23. > :21:28.gathering dust and could come back. There is a disposition among some
:21:28. > :21:31.to resuscitate some proposals. It does not mean devolving be issued
:21:31. > :21:38.to local politicians, it would enable the Executive to establish
:21:38. > :21:42.an alternative. The other related point was the announcement by the
:21:42. > :21:48.Orange Order of decentralising decisions to as it were larches at
:21:48. > :21:52.local level. The old adage about politics, all politics being local.
:21:52. > :21:56.We have to wait until we get to the wire for those decisions. At the
:21:56. > :22:01.start of the month we have the assistant Chief Constable urging
:22:01. > :22:07.people not to wait until the 11th hour, to talk locally and it did
:22:07. > :22:15.not happen. They are stuck in the middle. I agree with that. We have
:22:15. > :22:19.seen a succession of this over a long period. What it means, -- what
:22:19. > :22:28.it means is what the local commission could do. Corporation
:22:28. > :22:34.tax, how she signed up? She sounded convincing. I am surprised. It is
:22:34. > :22:38.the equivalent of Monty Python... It is non-committal. She said she
:22:38. > :22:43.supported it and thought it was an idea but it was up to the Prime
:22:43. > :22:47.Minister. She may think it is a good idea and try to persuade the
:22:47. > :22:52.Treasury but David Cameron will make the call. She pointed to
:22:52. > :22:55.barriers we know exist. We need a timescale. She did not say it was
:22:55. > :23:00.important to have a decision this side of Christmas or that she is
:23:00. > :23:06.pushing for a decision, she said she supported, but I thought she
:23:06. > :23:11.was non-committal. A word about Lord Bannside talking about the
:23:11. > :23:18.Ulster Covenant. For him, given his involvement in Unionist politics,
:23:18. > :23:22.this weekend is not insignificant. This is a signal event in the
:23:22. > :23:29.Unionist Callander. The legacy of 100 years ago and a major
:23:29. > :23:36.celebration. The fact that it threatened them insurrection is by
:23:36. > :23:40.the by, but in terms of history and identity, this is central to that
:23:40. > :23:47.identity. We can go back to another issue I raised with the secretary
:23:47. > :23:53.of state, Andrew Mitchell's found himself in hot water over the use
:23:53. > :24:00.of the word plebeian. They have been calls for his resignation. How
:24:00. > :24:08.offensive is that word. It must be used something to Robert
:24:08. > :24:15.tree. Say if somebody call you that, would you take offence? By would
:24:15. > :24:21.have to look in the dictionary! means a working person. In some
:24:21. > :24:27.encore to that, would you be offended? No. 90% of people are.
:24:27. > :24:35.Most people are workers. A would you take offence by that? I have
:24:35. > :24:41.been called worse. It is not fair. They have to take stick, it is part
:24:41. > :24:50.of the job. That is a word I would not use. It is offensive. If
:24:50. > :24:54.somebody call me that I would not be happy. We are all equal. Some
:24:54. > :24:58.people of certain backgrounds might take offence, but personally, not
:24:58. > :25:02.at all. The Act is the view on the street,
:25:02. > :25:08.some people are offended, other people not -- that is the view on
:25:08. > :25:12.the street. Does the word body you? Be issue is that it is
:25:12. > :25:21.condescending and arrogant and confirms the public's were
:25:21. > :25:31.suspicions that the inner circle of David Cameron is snobbish, public
:25:31. > :25:34.
:25:34. > :25:38.school education. Your story of the week? It is Mr Martin venting his
:25:38. > :25:42.spleen at the First Minister and deputy. It is unusual we get the
:25:42. > :25:48.boxing gloves off from a political leader in the south looking towards
:25:48. > :25:54.the north. He argues the whole debate, the motion by the DUP to
:25:54. > :26:00.get the Irish government to acknowledge their role in the
:26:00. > :26:03.Troubles. He said it was deeply offensive. He argued that it was in
:26:03. > :26:06.the interests of the DUP and Sinn Fein because it deflected attention
:26:07. > :26:14.from their respective roles and tried to point the finger of blame
:26:14. > :26:24.to Dublin. Your favourite story? have two. I will cheat. David
:26:24. > :26:24.
:26:24. > :26:28.Cameron mass -- David Cameron's Magna Carta or moment. That is what
:26:28. > :26:34.�30,000 Diego's year at Eton College! And he did not know who
:26:34. > :26:43.wrote the words to Rule Britannia. -- �30,000 a year. My second is
:26:43. > :26:48.more local, very local. It was the image of McRae and the debate in
:26:48. > :26:54.the Assembly. I thought he looked disconsolate. I wondered whether it
:26:54. > :26:59.was a hangover from Mike Nesbitt's speech on Saturday. The tone of the
:26:59. > :27:05.debate became very divisive and ill-tempered. I wondered whether a
:27:05. > :27:14.lot of people out there in the Ulster Unionist community felt the
:27:14. > :27:20.same. A sense of disappointment and disillusion -- de --
:27:20. > :27:23.disillusionment perhaps. In the Financial Times, it says after
:27:23. > :27:27.Financial Times, it says after Andrew Mitchell that is two leaders
:27:27. > :27:34.regretting talking to plebeians. regretting talking to plebeians.
:27:34. > :27:44.The Queen and friend gardener. can only echo that this compounds
:27:44. > :27:48.
:27:48. > :27:52.the view of the Tory party and posh voice. The Ryder Cup. I was
:27:52. > :27:59.interested on the colour of the sweaters, which is great for the
:27:59. > :28:03.three Ulster man! Darren Clarke the vice-captain. I hope the covenant
:28:03. > :28:07.parade goes off peaceably. On Wednesday, the first of the
:28:07. > :28:11.presidential debates between President Obama and Mitt Romney
:28:11. > :28:15.will be riveting television. We will see an assured performer for
:28:15. > :28:20.President Obama, against a man who when he goes off script cannot
:28:21. > :28:26.handle the pressure. It will be interesting to see how much content
:28:26. > :28:33.informs the debate. What are we judging these individuals on? If
:28:33. > :28:39.President Obama is a good a rater and he will -- orator and he will
:28:39. > :28:45.perform well. It will be about how he is presented. Mitt Romney will
:28:45. > :28:50.attack on the American economy. Let me get another word in! He will
:28:50. > :28:54.attack on the economy and President Obama will attack on governing, one
:28:54. > :29:04.of the other themes, particularly the reference to this beach Mitt
:29:04. > :29:10.Romney made to the faithful about 40 -- 47%. -- his speech. He said,
:29:10. > :29:15.President Obama, that he was for all the people. It will be