0:00:23 > 0:00:27longer a threat - Marian Price is released from custody after two
0:00:27 > 0:00:32years. Supporters welcome the move, but the DUP demands an explanation
0:00:32 > 0:00:42from the Parole Commissioners. We'll hear from two senior figures in
0:00:42 > 0:00:43
0:00:43 > 0:00:49Special Advisers' Bill, are serious fractures appearing in the SDLP?
0:00:49 > 0:00:52recent weeks the game, we have the spectacle of the SDLP beginning to
0:00:52 > 0:00:55eat itself. And with their thoughts on the
0:00:55 > 0:00:57political headlines this week and next, the professors are back in the
0:00:57 > 0:01:07commentary box. And you can, of course, follow the programme on
0:01:07 > 0:01:07
0:01:07 > 0:01:13threat by the Secretary of State and placed in custody with her licence
0:01:13 > 0:01:15revoked, Marian Price is tonight at home with her family. She still
0:01:15 > 0:01:18faces charges relating to the murder of two soldiers at Massereene
0:01:18 > 0:01:24Barracks and a dissident Republican rally in Londonderry's city
0:01:24 > 0:01:29cemetery. The decision to free her rested with the Parole Commissioners
0:01:29 > 0:01:32- an independent body which does not comment on or explain its actions.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35With me now is the chairman of the Justice Committee, the DUP's Paul
0:01:35 > 0:01:44Givan, and from our Foyle studio, the committee's deputy chair, Sinn
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Fein's Raymond McCartney. Thank you both very much indeed for joining us
0:01:47 > 0:01:50on the programme. Paul Givan, you've already made clear today your
0:01:50 > 0:01:57unhappiness at release of Marian Price. Why are you not content with
0:01:57 > 0:02:00the decision? The Parole Comissioners have done a U-turn. Two
0:02:00 > 0:02:04years ago, they recommended that her licence should we revoked, and the
0:02:04 > 0:02:10Secretary of State had to then act in the public interest, and she was
0:02:10 > 0:02:13sent back to prison. We now have this decision taken by the Parole
0:02:13 > 0:02:17Comissioners to reinstate her licence, and she is now a free
0:02:17 > 0:02:23woman, and I think the public are quite rightly asking what has
0:02:23 > 0:02:27changed from two years ago that now merits her to be a free woman? What
0:02:27 > 0:02:31information has been provided to justify that? Both from the
0:02:31 > 0:02:38Department of Justice and from the Northern Ireland Office, and in the
0:02:38 > 0:02:42killer from politicians who have called and campaigned for her
0:02:42 > 0:02:47release and made representation to the Parole Comissioners, and they
0:02:48 > 0:02:50need to give an explanation why they have done so. But this is an
0:02:50 > 0:02:54independent organisation which has assessed all of the evidence and
0:02:54 > 0:02:59come to the conclusion that she no longer faces a danger to society and
0:02:59 > 0:03:03it is safe for her to be released. We accept it is an independent body.
0:03:03 > 0:03:09The fact that it doesn't come out and speak to the public to explain
0:03:09 > 0:03:13his decisions leaves people to make assumptions that, based upon
0:03:13 > 0:03:17representation that was made at the highest levels of Sinn Fein and
0:03:17 > 0:03:21within the SDLP, there has been political influence brought to bear
0:03:21 > 0:03:30on the decision taken by the Parole Comissioners. What would be wrong
0:03:30 > 0:03:35with that? I think that would be entirely inappropriate. She is now
0:03:35 > 0:03:39free woman, and the public need to know why. People released on licence
0:03:39 > 0:03:43were released with conditions attached to them. We need to be
0:03:43 > 0:03:48convicted by a court and found guilty to be sent to prison, as
0:03:48 > 0:03:56law-abiding people. People on the licence have already been convicted,
0:03:56 > 0:03:59and if they break the conditions, then they have to go back to prison.
0:03:59 > 0:04:04It could be dangerous if other prisoners think that they won't be
0:04:04 > 0:04:09sent back to prison. We don't know all of the details, because the
0:04:09 > 0:04:14Parole Comissioners have not released a statement, but it is
0:04:14 > 0:04:17likely that today's decision will come with conditions attached. We
0:04:17 > 0:04:22again have to accept at face value that whatever those conditions are,
0:04:22 > 0:04:31they would safeguard society at large. Do you accept that? We don't
0:04:31 > 0:04:34know what the conditions are, and that is why we are questioning
0:04:34 > 0:04:37this. I hope that we could interrogate them so that they can
0:04:37 > 0:04:41provide justification for the decisions that they take and the
0:04:41 > 0:04:49processes that they follow. And what do you think the chances are of the
0:04:49 > 0:04:53Parole Comissioners coming to a committee? The public need to be
0:04:53 > 0:04:59reassured that they are doing their job properly. Remaining silent will
0:04:59 > 0:05:05leave many questions unanswered, and that is not good for the system.
0:05:05 > 0:05:10Raymond McCartney, the correct decision today? Sinn Fein welcomed
0:05:10 > 0:05:17the release of Marian Price, and we have a long campaigned that we don't
0:05:17 > 0:05:22feel that any person should lose their liberty and the basis on which
0:05:22 > 0:05:26they lose their liberty is not open to challenge. And it has become very
0:05:26 > 0:05:34obvious since Marian Price has been in prison that her physical and
0:05:34 > 0:05:39mental health has deteriorated to a point that she should be released.
0:05:39 > 0:05:48We understand that Marian Price is now at home with her family. She is
0:05:48 > 0:05:53not in hospital. I don't think anybody is under any doubt that her
0:05:53 > 0:05:59physical health have deteriorated over the years. What do you make of
0:05:59 > 0:06:03Paul Givan's charge that political pressure brought to bear would be
0:06:03 > 0:06:05entirely inappropriate in these circumstances. Your party was
0:06:05 > 0:06:09involved in lobbying the commissioners, as I understand it.
0:06:09 > 0:06:19Why was that right in lobbying the commissioners, as I understand it.
0:06:19 > 0:06:19
0:06:19 > 0:06:29Why was that writing your view? We have lobbied at every level.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32Particularly needing to understand why somebody is in prison. Paul
0:06:32 > 0:06:36Givan says that that is an invitation to others not to abide by
0:06:36 > 0:06:39the conditions of their licence. When you accept the principle that
0:06:39 > 0:06:43somebody when they have served their sentence should be released and that
0:06:43 > 0:06:48is the end of it, that is the basis on which they have challenged a
0:06:48 > 0:06:50number of people whose licences of been revoked over the years. This
0:06:50 > 0:06:59case was complicated by the fact that Marian Price has contended that
0:06:59 > 0:07:03she was pardoned. No evidence could be found to the contrary. I think it
0:07:03 > 0:07:05has to be made and has been made very clear that since her
0:07:05 > 0:07:12imprisonment, her mental and physical well-being has
0:07:12 > 0:07:17deteriorated, so I think that the Parole Comissioners came to the
0:07:17 > 0:07:22correct decision today based on the circumstances. What about this
0:07:22 > 0:07:25invitation from the committee of which you are the deputy chair to
0:07:25 > 0:07:35invite the Parole Comissioners to come up to the Justice committee and
0:07:35 > 0:07:42
0:07:42 > 0:07:47to explain the rationale that they came to? Would you welcome that?
0:07:47 > 0:07:54are not happy that you have a group of people who can listen to evidence
0:07:54 > 0:07:58and not be challenged, that they can listen to evidence of a person who
0:07:58 > 0:08:04has been accused of doing something wrong, they can't challenge it.
0:08:04 > 0:08:09there is an advocate bear who act on behalf of the person in question, so
0:08:09 > 0:08:13the person is not unrepresented. With the greatest respect, he can't
0:08:13 > 0:08:18come out and report to the person, he can't be instructed by the
0:08:18 > 0:08:22person, and the person can't be briefed. So in many ways, that whole
0:08:22 > 0:08:27system is open to question. We over the years have always said that what
0:08:27 > 0:08:32we have to do is instil confidence in the justice system. The justice
0:08:32 > 0:08:42system in the past failed us all, and this type of quasi-judicial
0:08:42 > 0:08:42
0:08:42 > 0:08:46process doesn't help. Do you think that the Parole Comissioners should
0:08:46 > 0:08:51come to Stormont to explain themselves? Yes, I do. The public
0:08:51 > 0:08:57should be able to see politicians from whatever viewpoint being able
0:08:57 > 0:09:04to ask questions of ultimately civil servants who are paid by the
0:09:04 > 0:09:09taxpayers. I want to pick up on one of Raymond's points - such as the
0:09:09 > 0:09:15opposition to a licence system. If somebody receives a life sentence,
0:09:15 > 0:09:19that is for life, and a period of that will be in custody, and then
0:09:19 > 0:09:23they will be under certain conditions, and we are talking about
0:09:23 > 0:09:28that actual principle, we are talking about changing the tools
0:09:28 > 0:09:31that are available to society to deal with people who breaks the law.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Raymond McCartney's point is that the licence can be revoked without
0:09:35 > 0:09:39any further recourse to the judicial system. The Secretary of State two
0:09:39 > 0:09:43years ago, Owen Paterson, took the decision to put Marian Price back in
0:09:44 > 0:09:49jail. There wasn't a judicial process by which she could argue her
0:09:49 > 0:09:53case or ask for an explanation. judicial process was on the 70s in
0:09:53 > 0:09:59this particular case, and she was found guilty. And she served her
0:09:59 > 0:10:04time and was released. On licence, with conditions. So the Parole
0:10:04 > 0:10:08Comissioners have to determine if those conditions have been released.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12She doesn't need a judge to find her innocent or guilty. You have already
0:10:12 > 0:10:16been broken the law, and been given a second opportunity to live in
0:10:16 > 0:10:20society, but under particular conditions. So this would be a
0:10:20 > 0:10:24fundamental change to how we deal with people that are ultimately
0:10:24 > 0:10:28sentence for very serious crimes. You are trying to have your cake and
0:10:28 > 0:10:32eat it, because you welcome the fact that the Parole Comissioners took
0:10:33 > 0:10:35the decision two years ago to row broke her licence, but today you say
0:10:35 > 0:10:40that they shouldn't have changed their minds 24 months later and said
0:10:40 > 0:10:44that she should be released again. You can't have it both ways. They
0:10:45 > 0:10:48shouldn't have changed their mind without giving any aspiration at all
0:10:48 > 0:10:52apart from the present circumstances have changed. And that takes me to
0:10:52 > 0:10:55the second point, that if we are going to argue that somebody's
0:10:55 > 0:10:58medical condition should determine whether or not they are ever going
0:10:58 > 0:11:02to be in custody, that sends a serious and dangerous message to
0:11:02 > 0:11:07prisoners that if you get ill you will be released. Raymond
0:11:07 > 0:11:11McCartney, what should happen to the two outstanding charges which she is
0:11:11 > 0:11:16still facing? Should she be required to phase due process at this stage,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19as far as they are concerned? Without trying to prejudice the
0:11:19 > 0:11:23outcome of those investigations, we have long argued that if there is
0:11:23 > 0:11:27evidence than it should be presented in open court. She will have the
0:11:27 > 0:11:33opportunity to rebuff that and brief legal representatives in a
0:11:33 > 0:11:36particular way, so therefore that should proceed. What we have to be
0:11:36 > 0:11:43mindful of his/her health. There have been a number of concessions --
0:11:43 > 0:11:50decisions taken due to her hell for conditions, but charges should be
0:11:50 > 0:11:54heard in an open court. Do you think that due process should take place
0:11:54 > 0:11:57as far as those outstanding charges are concerned? I would hope that
0:11:57 > 0:12:03ultimately prosecutions can be brought forward, and if people are
0:12:03 > 0:12:06convicted, then that is due process. There was a similar case where a
0:12:06 > 0:12:09Republican had his licence revoked and then reinstated, and we were
0:12:09 > 0:12:12told them that the charges remain on the books, and we are waiting to
0:12:12 > 0:12:16find out what happens in that particular case.
0:12:16 > 0:12:22Maybe we will bet getting clarification of all of that in due
0:12:22 > 0:12:24course. And we will see the commissioners take up the invitation
0:12:24 > 0:12:33from both of you to attend that committee. Raymond McCartney in our
0:12:33 > 0:12:35Foyle studio and Paul Givan, thank for the SDLP. First the party
0:12:35 > 0:12:38threatened to block a bill banning people who've served long prison
0:12:38 > 0:12:40sentences from being special advisers at Stormont. Then it
0:12:40 > 0:12:43changed its mind after an intervention from party grandees,
0:12:43 > 0:12:51including Seamus Mallon. So has the party been damaged and where does it
0:12:51 > 0:12:56leave the leadership of Alasdair McDonnell? Gareth Gordon reports.
0:12:56 > 0:13:03Ballistic tests and the post-mortem on Mary Travers has shown that when
0:13:03 > 0:13:07two gunmen... The murder of Mary Travers sop -- -- shocked the
0:13:07 > 0:13:12community used to killing. Four years her sister Ann Travers
0:13:12 > 0:13:18buy the grief in silence until Sinn Fein appointed Mary McArdle as
0:13:18 > 0:13:25special adviser. I was shocked and appalled and felt physically sick
0:13:25 > 0:13:30when I heard it. There was no prior warning. We did not know, Sinn Fein
0:13:30 > 0:13:36did not even have the manners to let us know that this was going to
0:13:36 > 0:13:39happen. At the time of the murder Alistair MacDonald was the Travis
0:13:39 > 0:13:46family doctor. He understood the hurt that the appointment would
0:13:46 > 0:13:56cause. Initially his party appeared sympathetic with a private members
0:13:56 > 0:14:00bill had changed its mind. We have made every attempt that we possibly
0:14:00 > 0:14:05could to shape this into Google. This is not been successful and we
0:14:05 > 0:14:11are now considering supporting a petition of concern. But are you
0:14:11 > 0:14:15going to do it? I think we probably will. Ann Travers met with party
0:14:15 > 0:14:24leaders who were less than keen to talk about it. How did the meeting
0:14:24 > 0:14:29go? Show us more respect. Show more respect. But finally the party
0:14:29 > 0:14:34appeared to have a change of heart, agreeing not to block the bill and
0:14:34 > 0:14:40even denying that that was ever an option. Who is going to veto the
0:14:40 > 0:14:46bill? There were hints from your party on the airwaves. There were no
0:14:46 > 0:14:49hints coming from the party. Dominic Bradley raised the issue with that
0:14:49 > 0:14:55because Jim Allister was being so unhelpful, we were having
0:14:55 > 0:15:00difficulty. For more than a week the SDLP wrestled publicly with the
0:15:00 > 0:15:04issue of what to do about the Special Advisers' Bill before coming
0:15:04 > 0:15:08awkwardly to a conclusion loaded with potential pitfalls. In a way
0:15:08 > 0:15:12they were dammed if they did and dammed if they did not. The
0:15:12 > 0:15:18impression is left of the party not sure where it is going who wants to
0:15:18 > 0:15:24take with it. They had even been pressure from the party old card. A
0:15:24 > 0:15:28young girl coming with her family on a Sunday morning was shot dead and
0:15:29 > 0:15:33to put those people with that type of record into the top of the
0:15:33 > 0:15:37administration instrument is to actually negate any of the really
0:15:37 > 0:15:43basic philosophies of the Good Friday agreement in terms of
0:15:43 > 0:15:48reconciliation. It is actually giving them two fingers to the
0:15:48 > 0:15:53Unionist community. It has been a sad spectacle. Part of that nobody
0:15:53 > 0:15:59could handle in that you cannot tell the elders of a party to be quiet.
0:15:59 > 0:16:04When Seamus Mallon weighed in it may things ready much impossible for
0:16:04 > 0:16:09Alasdair McDonnell who had looked as if he was beginning to get his feet
0:16:09 > 0:16:16steady on the ground and get a grip of things. But in recent weeks again
0:16:16 > 0:16:24we had the spectacle of the SDLP beginning to eat itself very much
0:16:24 > 0:16:29like the Ulster Unionist party, it does remind you of that. I suppose
0:16:29 > 0:16:34the role of the leader is to come forward and make a decision and get
0:16:34 > 0:16:39on with it. There seem to be times when the SDLP was struggling to stop
0:16:39 > 0:16:44Alex Attwood was seen publicly struggling. Some people in Sinn Fein
0:16:44 > 0:16:51are suggesting that some individuals in the SDLP might even break ranks
0:16:51 > 0:16:54and support the petition of concern. But those tensions are there and
0:16:54 > 0:16:58they will reflect on Alasdair McDonnell who has had quite a
0:16:58 > 0:17:03difficult time since he came in as party leader. There have been hints
0:17:03 > 0:17:08of some kind of restructuring. There's also talk of the party
0:17:08 > 0:17:12launching a new victim 's, assuming it has not been too damaged by this
0:17:12 > 0:17:18one. -- -- big initiative.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Gareth Gordon reporting. We did ask the SDLP to take part in tonight's
0:17:20 > 0:17:23programme, but it declined our invitation, though, as Gareth said,
0:17:24 > 0:17:26the party is considering creating an initiative for victims. With me now
0:17:26 > 0:17:29is the Victims' Commissioner, Kathryn Stone. Ann Travers, the
0:17:29 > 0:17:33sister of the murdered teacher Mary Travers, has taken a lead on this
0:17:33 > 0:17:39issue. Do you stand shoulder to shoulder with her in her campaign?
0:17:39 > 0:17:44think Ann Travers is a very dignified and passionate woman who
0:17:44 > 0:17:48shares with many other victims and survivors that dignity and passion,
0:17:48 > 0:17:53that determination to make a difference. She is an incredibly
0:17:53 > 0:17:58valuable member of our victims Forum. There are 23 members of the
0:17:58 > 0:18:05forum who are equally valuable. I have to say there are differences of
0:18:05 > 0:18:13opinion in that forum. And have never claimed to speak on behalf of
0:18:13 > 0:18:17all victims. But in your capacity as the Victims Commissioner, can you
0:18:17 > 0:18:20publicly come out and endorsed her position on this proposed
0:18:20 > 0:18:26legislation? As Victims Commissioner, and the commission
0:18:26 > 0:18:30must make sure that the voices of all victims are heard. When we gave
0:18:30 > 0:18:34our evidence to the committee for Finance and personnel in November we
0:18:34 > 0:18:38first went to the forum to ask them their opinion and there were some
0:18:38 > 0:18:44who were very much in support of and's passionate determination to
0:18:44 > 0:18:52see this determination that at to see this legislation through. Others
0:18:52 > 0:18:56felt differently. I felt this was a political side swipe determines to
0:18:56 > 0:18:59make sure that former prisoners were not offered opportunities to
0:18:59 > 0:19:04rehabilitate and so on. So there are different opinions and we must
0:19:04 > 0:19:07represent both. But if you are to be effective ultimately you have to
0:19:07 > 0:19:12make a choice one way or another otherwise in a sense you do not
0:19:12 > 0:19:19represent anyone. As you have said previously it is a difficult and
0:19:19 > 0:19:24challenging job to make sure that we represent the diverse views of the
0:19:24 > 0:19:30Thames and survivors in this society. And the fit and forum I
0:19:30 > 0:19:35think is a very real microcosm of this society. -- -- the victims
0:19:35 > 0:19:37Forum. People do have real differences of opinion. We have
0:19:37 > 0:19:43uncomfortable conversations but there is agreement on a number of
0:19:43 > 0:19:49things. Did Ann Travers approach you directly and ask for your support?
0:19:49 > 0:19:55No. But she has been in touch with you in recent days? Of course.Did
0:19:55 > 0:20:00she look for a public endorsement of her position? It is important to
0:20:00 > 0:20:05remember that she was speaking on this matter as a private individual.
0:20:05 > 0:20:10She has support from a whole range of victims groups and we at the
0:20:10 > 0:20:14commission would support any victims trying to put forward a campaign.
0:20:14 > 0:20:19Clearly there is a huge diversity of opinion on this piece of proposed
0:20:19 > 0:20:23legislation. That being the case do you think that if it finds its way
0:20:23 > 0:20:30on the statute books it will help the healing process, or promote
0:20:30 > 0:20:34further division? I'm sure some people who this week by celebrating
0:20:34 > 0:20:40and are hugely relieved that this piece of legislation looks set to
0:20:40 > 0:20:45become legislation. There are others who will be equally bewildered and
0:20:45 > 0:20:49disappointed about the fact that this piece of legislation looks set
0:20:49 > 0:20:54to become law. I think we do have to remember there are different views
0:20:54 > 0:21:00on this. You have underscored that again tonight. How do you take this
0:21:00 > 0:21:06forward, how do you take the process of bringing people together as one
0:21:06 > 0:21:10body, representing all of the victims of the conflict of the past
0:21:10 > 0:21:1830 years to try to move the process forward? Where do you start with
0:21:18 > 0:21:23that process? Well we have a forum, 23 people, who would each be the
0:21:23 > 0:21:28Dems as defined -- I know the definition is contested, but we have
0:21:28 > 0:21:3323 victims who regularly meet as volunteers to talk about some very
0:21:33 > 0:21:37difficult stuff. They are formed into three working groups looking at
0:21:37 > 0:21:42dealing with the past, how services are delivered, and how we build for
0:21:42 > 0:21:47the future. I'm excited about the work coming out of the forum. It is
0:21:47 > 0:21:52a huge privilege to be part of that energy and determination to make a
0:21:52 > 0:21:56difference. How close are you to be able to table something tangible
0:21:56 > 0:22:01that will help move the process forward? It is a matter of weeks
0:22:01 > 0:22:07away. We have the chance to meet breast and Deputy First Minister
0:22:07 > 0:22:14towards the end of June and we will table a merchant findings from the
0:22:14 > 0:22:18discussions of the big guns forum from the past eight or nine months.
0:22:18 > 0:22:23-- -- victims Forum. There are points of agreement and of
0:22:23 > 0:22:28disagreement. But what before do, is to give some proposals to the First
0:22:28 > 0:22:33and Deputy First Minister about the way forward. So you're telling us
0:22:33 > 0:22:39that there is a draft document in existence? It is the very first
0:22:39 > 0:22:46draft at the moment. But we will be able to resent them with emerging
0:22:46 > 0:22:52findings. And we will be able to have those discussions. And there is
0:22:52 > 0:22:56enough in that draft document to make it tangible, given the
0:22:56 > 0:23:01differences of opinion you have already talked about? The forum is
0:23:01 > 0:23:07about making a real difference to people. Lots of people are happy to
0:23:07 > 0:23:13sit and theorise and make grandiose statements. The forum is about
0:23:13 > 0:23:18making a difference. Thank you for joining us and interesting to hear
0:23:18 > 0:23:28that that document is in existence. We look forward to seeing it in the
0:23:28 > 0:23:29
0:23:29 > 0:23:33public domain seller rather than later. Well in commentators corner,
0:23:33 > 0:23:39the professors are with me again tonight, Deirdre Heenan and Rick
0:23:39 > 0:23:47Wilford. Rick, let's talk about the state of the SDLP after a bruising
0:23:47 > 0:23:54week for the party. Has it been damaged? It is. They initially
0:23:54 > 0:23:57seemed to support the bill and Ben said they were opposed to it. And
0:23:57 > 0:24:03they are effectively going to be abstaining when the vote comes. I
0:24:03 > 0:24:10think any damage sustained will be exploited by Sinn Fein. They will
0:24:10 > 0:24:15make them appear to be complicit in what they see as an act of
0:24:15 > 0:24:19vindictiveness and targeted at them. Whereas in fact it is sharply
0:24:19 > 0:24:28focused and narrow in its scope and applies to anyone convicted of a
0:24:29 > 0:24:35serious criminal offence. Just to finish that point, I think for many
0:24:35 > 0:24:40people this is a moment when parties have been forced to pull their moral
0:24:40 > 0:24:44compass out of the door. And you could argue that the SDLP has
0:24:44 > 0:24:50failed. And in fact you selected this is your story of the week.
0:24:50 > 0:24:56did. I felt the SDLP were looking for a middle way and ended up
0:24:56 > 0:25:00appearing indecisive. What they try to do in their later debates was
0:25:00 > 0:25:05turn this into a technical issue, to talk about the technicalities of the
0:25:05 > 0:25:11bill. Whereas people at home and the public want to know, do you believe
0:25:11 > 0:25:14that there is a moral issue at stake here? Deliberately that some things
0:25:14 > 0:25:16are so reprehensible that individuals should not be seen to be
0:25:16 > 0:25:22rewarded for their crimes and allowed to hold high public office.
0:25:22 > 0:25:30And they have dodged that question. That is the quest in the people want
0:25:30 > 0:25:35to know and also, is this an ethical issue. What ethics and morals do we
0:25:35 > 0:25:39want to impart into the future? But in many ways I think this issue is a
0:25:39 > 0:25:45sideshow to the issue about dealing with the past. Unless we deal with
0:25:45 > 0:25:49the past this will come back. Are we to challenge the suggestions now
0:25:49 > 0:25:58that we can say, reconciliation and truth can be separated and that is a
0:25:58 > 0:26:03big issue that I think has been lost in this discussion. Rick, your
0:26:03 > 0:26:13moment of the week. The shocking and brutal murder of drama Lee Rigby
0:26:13 > 0:26:13
0:26:13 > 0:26:22last week. As everyone else, my emotional reaction was one just of
0:26:22 > 0:26:24horror. Especially the images that we thought with passers-by taking
0:26:24 > 0:26:30film on their phones and so on. Quite extraordinary and
0:26:30 > 0:26:39unprecedented. But beyond that kind of moral revulsion there is a
0:26:39 > 0:26:43political issue which is the current Home Secretary seeking to have
0:26:43 > 0:26:47powers to intercept communications. The risk is that people are rushing
0:26:47 > 0:26:55to judgement. We do not want Draconian legislation that will
0:26:55 > 0:27:05enable the authorities to fish with a narrow measure net. It has to be
0:27:05 > 0:27:13
0:27:13 > 0:27:21very focused I think. And going on a trawl like this is risky. Rick's
0:27:21 > 0:27:30tweet comes from Anne McElvoy, The Economist. She was responding to an
0:27:30 > 0:27:33article about Andy Coulson. He had written an article saying that as
0:27:33 > 0:27:43once the Prime Minister to fail in order to take over at the
0:27:43 > 0:27:50leadership. And Anne McElvoy goes on to say, In other news, bears enjoy
0:27:50 > 0:27:58the woods and the Pope is a Roman Catholic. Deirdre's tweet is from
0:27:58 > 0:28:03Tim McGarry @TimMcGarry. "Have decided to become like Jamie Dornan
0:28:03 > 0:28:10in #thefall. Will utter three words an hour and be topless at every
0:28:10 > 0:28:16opportunity." Is that a good idea? The idea that
0:28:16 > 0:28:22he could at three words in an hour if laughable! It was more the
0:28:22 > 0:28:28topless thing! It has its attraction! It says something about
0:28:28 > 0:28:33the strength of drama being made in northern Ireland. It says something
0:28:33 > 0:28:37about creative industries and trying to remember them. The co-founder of
0:28:37 > 0:28:46Apple spoke about the strength of the creative industries in the North
0:28:46 > 0:28:53West today. And we should seek to develop that. That is the future.
0:28:53 > 0:28:57And there are many young people who want to be part of that. The second
0:28:57 > 0:29:01reading in the house of lords on the same-sex marriage Bill is what I'm