:00:22. > :00:26.On the View tonight: Empty words. Too little, too late or a
:00:26. > :00:30.significant step change? Gerry Adams' apology in the Dail has re-
:00:30. > :00:34.opened divisions over dealing with the past. We'll ask two Executive
:00:34. > :00:43.Ministers for their way forward. From Belfast to Ballykelly. Is a
:00:43. > :00:48.former army base the right place for civil servants? This is one of
:00:48. > :00:51.the Department of Agriculture's offices but what about plans to
:00:51. > :00:54.move its entire headquarters to Ballykelly?
:00:54. > :00:58.And with their views on the week so far, commentators Pete Shirlow and
:00:58. > :01:06.Paul McFadden. And you can of course follow the
:01:06. > :01:10.The murder of Garda Adrian Donohue prompted condemnation from all
:01:10. > :01:13.quarters across the island of Ireland. But the words of Gerry
:01:13. > :01:16.Adams in the Dail remembering the IRA's killing of Garda Gerry McCabe
:01:16. > :01:21.in 1996 have re-opened divisions and debate over dealing with the
:01:22. > :01:25.past. In a moment we'll talk to two senior Stormont figures, John
:01:25. > :01:30.O'Dowd and Edwin Poots. But first here's the Sinn Fein President
:01:30. > :01:38.speaking in the Dail earlier this week.
:01:38. > :01:41.I want to apologise to Mrs McCabe and there McCabe family and to
:01:41. > :01:45.Garda Ben O'Sullivan and to the families of other members of the
:01:45. > :01:48.state forces who were killed by Republicans in the course of the
:01:48. > :01:54.conflict. With me now, two members of the
:01:54. > :01:59.Executive: the DUP's Edwin Poots and Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd. Thank
:01:59. > :02:08.you both for joining us. Why did Gerry Adams choose this moment, 16
:02:08. > :02:15.years after the IRA murder of Garda McCabe, to apologise to his widow?
:02:15. > :02:20.We had the tragic events and it was appropriate for Durie to set out my
:02:20. > :02:26.party's view of the killing of Jerry McCabe and other garter
:02:26. > :02:33.forces in the 26 counties. -- Tim garter. We are involved in a
:02:33. > :02:43.process of the events moving forward. We cannot change the past
:02:43. > :02:49.
:02:49. > :02:55.but we can change the future. Durie has made a dialogue. -- Gerry. We
:02:55. > :03:01.are saying we need a dialogue, and we want to engage with Unionism and
:03:01. > :03:07.other parties about how to deal with the past. Just to be clear
:03:07. > :03:11.about the connection of the murders 16 years apart of these two guards.
:03:11. > :03:18.Did Gerry Adams believe there was some kind of republican
:03:18. > :03:23.involvement? No, and speculation like that will not help. We need to
:03:23. > :03:29.let that the arts do their job and the PSNI are also involved in the
:03:29. > :03:32.O'Donoghue investigation. Gerry Adams was setting out Sinn Fein's
:03:32. > :03:36.view on that. Mr Adams has always maintained he
:03:36. > :03:42.was never in the IRA so why is he apologising on behalf of comrades
:03:42. > :03:47.he never had? He is apologising for the broader republican family. He
:03:47. > :03:52.is apologising on behalf of Sinn Fein as an elected Republican Party
:03:52. > :03:56.and setting out Sinn Fein's view of what their future can and should be.
:03:56. > :04:01.We can read all sorts of things into this but we miss the point,
:04:01. > :04:11.and the opportunity to have a sensible, calm debate about how we
:04:11. > :04:12.
:04:12. > :04:17.as a people deal with our past. The do you accept that? I welcome the
:04:17. > :04:25.fact that Gerry Adams has recognise that it is wrong to kill police
:04:25. > :04:32.officers and he has apologised for that but I think it falls mightily
:04:32. > :04:37.short. He cannot apologise for the 300 murders that took place in
:04:37. > :04:44.Northern Ireland. Does that make it MMT apology? We have to ask the
:04:44. > :04:49.question, can Gerry Adams man up? - an empty apology? Can he do what
:04:49. > :04:53.he needs to do? I can recall when the ceasefire was declared at one
:04:53. > :04:58.of the things they referred to was remorse and regret for the lives
:04:58. > :05:07.that have been lost. I would love to hear those words coming from
:05:07. > :05:11.Sinn Fein. Surely heart for it words -- heartfelt words. That they
:05:11. > :05:15.regret it and they have remorse for what happened in the Troubles. The
:05:16. > :05:22.rule of the IRA is not something people should be proud of. The fact
:05:22. > :05:27.they were involved in 2000 murders. The loyalist in question expressed
:05:27. > :05:31.their remorse and the violence did not go away.
:05:31. > :05:37.They are also Rathbone to innocent victims and given the fact that any
:05:37. > :05:41.person who resembled that was a legitimate target, I would... We
:05:41. > :05:47.have to do with all of the deaths. All of the casualties of the
:05:47. > :05:53.conflict that we want to put behind us. Despite recent events, we have
:05:53. > :05:59.been quite successful. And we need to recognise, my view of the IRA is
:05:59. > :06:04.different to Edwin Poots's review. My view of loyalism etc is
:06:04. > :06:08.different. But all of the people who have been hurt and inflicted
:06:08. > :06:18.hurt and those who were not in combat or hurt and we have to deal
:06:18. > :06:24.with this. You also have to deal with the issue which is the failure
:06:24. > :06:28.on the part of Gerry Adams as they see it to do with the issue of
:06:28. > :06:34.apologising for the IRA murder of police officers in Northern Ireland.
:06:34. > :06:38.You have to put that in the context of the conflict. Why? It is wrong
:06:38. > :06:43.to kill police officers in the south. Why is it right to kill them
:06:44. > :06:48.in the North? It was a different circumstance. It was a conflict.
:06:48. > :06:51.Republicans were attacking the state, the state were attacking
:06:51. > :06:55.Republicans and there were many different elements within that. We
:06:55. > :07:04.can look at the role of the IRA within the conflict but then we
:07:04. > :07:09.miss the entire conflict. Republicans often berate Unionists
:07:09. > :07:13.sought supporting what you say is a hierarchy of victims. You are
:07:13. > :07:18.creating a hierarchy of victims as far as police officers are
:07:18. > :07:23.concerned? No. We are saying that those who have lost a conflict as
:07:23. > :07:30.both result of the conflict that spelt out, we need to deal with it
:07:30. > :07:35.as an entirety. We have to come forward and offer reassurance to
:07:35. > :07:40.Unionism, to those who bought allegiance to the ground, and deal
:07:40. > :07:44.with our role in the past but Unionism, the state, the Crown all
:07:44. > :07:54.have to deal with the past as well and we cannot separate one
:07:54. > :07:55.
:07:55. > :08:00.combative group and say, you have to do this. What about the widows
:08:00. > :08:06.who received that knock at the door in the wee hours in the 70s and 80s
:08:07. > :08:12.since then? What sympathy do you have to those people? There is a
:08:12. > :08:18.difference between apologies and sympathy. Maybe for you. Let me
:08:18. > :08:22.explain my position. I have every sympathy with the widow of an are
:08:22. > :08:27.receiving office at or a UDR man and loyalist person who lost their
:08:27. > :08:31.loved one. Their pain is real. But it is no different from the payment
:08:31. > :08:36.of people from their republican side to his next civilians -- from
:08:36. > :08:43.the pain of people. You accept their pain is real but you cannot
:08:43. > :08:49.apologise. We have to do with it in the context of a conflict which was
:08:49. > :08:54.the making of many decades of discrimination, partition, and
:08:54. > :09:00.British Government involvement. you accept it is more complicated
:09:00. > :09:06.than people would like it to be? course. But sorry is not that big a
:09:06. > :09:11.word but it seems difficult for Sinn Fein. There officers murdered
:09:11. > :09:17.in the Republic of Ireland. The circumstances were not dissimilar.
:09:17. > :09:21.Why can they not come forward and say it to the widows and to the
:09:21. > :09:25.sons and daughters who lost their loved ones, to the fathers and to
:09:25. > :09:31.the mothers and to the brothers and sisters, we regret having killed
:09:31. > :09:34.your loved ones? That is not a big ask. For Sinn Fein now to be
:09:34. > :09:39.sitting in government, in a position of authority and
:09:39. > :09:49.responsibility, it is about time that they said it. Have they got
:09:49. > :09:49.
:09:49. > :09:54.the courage to do it? So far I have not heard they have the courage.
:09:55. > :09:57.What about issues that Unionism have to deal with? Members of the
:09:57. > :10:02.security forces were also responsible for killings and
:10:02. > :10:07.members of loyalist paramilitaries, on occasion to collusion, were
:10:07. > :10:12.responsible for deaths, and they have not been apologies forthcoming
:10:12. > :10:17.in those circumstances? David Cameron was very forthright in his
:10:17. > :10:24.apology over Bloody Sunday. That is one example. There are others
:10:24. > :10:29.Republicans could quote. He also apologised for other things. There
:10:29. > :10:32.have been inquiries. Republicans are good at receiving apologies but
:10:32. > :10:37.they do not appear to be good at giving them at now is time for them
:10:37. > :10:41.to step up to the plate and say they do regret killing people in
:10:41. > :10:45.the Troubles and that they did not achieve their goals and they failed
:10:45. > :10:53.miserably in their attempts to achieve their goals through murder.
:10:53. > :10:59.We have already used the word of regret. The point is "sorry".
:10:59. > :11:03.Families will make their own decision. But let's look at the
:11:03. > :11:09.role of Unionism in this conflict. I lost a very good friend, a young
:11:09. > :11:17.mother, who was a Sinn Fein activist and a law student. She was
:11:17. > :11:23.murdered by loyalists. Only in recent months we have a DUP
:11:23. > :11:28.counsellor, who refused to stand in sympathy with Sinn Fein people
:11:28. > :11:32.whose fathers have died. The that is a basic school ground argument.
:11:32. > :11:38.I use that argument because we have a role to play in dealing with the
:11:38. > :11:41.past and I do except we need to deal with this issue sensibly. I am
:11:41. > :11:46.conscious people watching tonight have lost loved ones and I have no
:11:46. > :11:50.wish to add further pain, but we are sending out a message that we
:11:50. > :11:55.need to deal with the past. Republicans have a view of how to
:11:55. > :12:00.do with it. What is Unionism going to do? He is in a leadership role
:12:00. > :12:09.but he is not prepared to offer leadership. He is grumbling about
:12:09. > :12:13.trying to cast aspersions on us. Let me say this. The LVF, that
:12:13. > :12:18.murdered Campbell, in terms of that organisation the last policeman in
:12:18. > :12:24.the Troubles that was murdered was murdered by the LVF, constable
:12:24. > :12:29.Riley. Was that motor also justified? Because it was wrong for
:12:29. > :12:33.the LVF to murder a police officer? It was wrong for the first police
:12:33. > :12:37.officer to be murdered by loyalists? It was wrong for the
:12:37. > :12:42.majority of other police officers to be murdered by the IRA and it is
:12:42. > :12:51.time that they said so. You have to sit side-by-side in the executive
:12:51. > :12:54.and that must be uncomfortable. Your ministerial colleague Arlene
:12:54. > :12:56.Foster spoke movingly on Talkback at lunchtime today about her
:12:57. > :13:00.experience when the IRA, an organisation your party was closely
:13:00. > :13:10.associated with for many years, came to kill her father in his bed
:13:10. > :13:13.
:13:13. > :13:16.Off $:/STARTFEED. By a new set opposite Arlene Foster
:13:16. > :13:21.in the Executive run, do you understand how difficult it is for
:13:21. > :13:25.her? I have not heard her speak on it today, but I have in the past,
:13:25. > :13:33.and understandably she speaks very movingly about it. I respect that
:13:33. > :13:38.she has taken a courageous decision to enter the peace process with us.
:13:38. > :13:42.But I also carry pain from the past, as do many others in our society,
:13:42. > :13:47.and we'll have to make the choice to move forward. Our role is to
:13:47. > :13:52.make sure that her experience never, ever happens again. Or the
:13:52. > :13:57.experiences of my own family and others. And we have been quite
:13:57. > :14:00.successful in that. But to complete this, we have a good deal with the
:14:00. > :14:06.past. In one sentence, you were caught on
:14:06. > :14:12.a hook here. It is a partitionist approach you're taking. You have
:14:12. > :14:16.separated Ireland. Half of cloud are prepared to apologise, the
:14:17. > :14:21.other half or not. I am not here to apologise for any one. It was never
:14:21. > :14:27.Sinn Fein's role in terms of the republicanism.
:14:28. > :14:32.It was Gerry Adams to stood up and made a apology. We're dealing with
:14:32. > :14:36.the how the realities of the conflict spread out. Edwin Poots, a
:14:37. > :14:40.final thought from you as to where to go from here. How do you
:14:40. > :14:46.encourage John O'Dowd to walk down the path you think he needs to?
:14:46. > :14:50.I think he should go home and watch this programme, had when he sees
:14:50. > :14:54.himself scrambling about trying to justify things, he should reflect
:14:54. > :14:57.he does not have an argument that does not stand up. The best thing
:14:57. > :15:02.Sinn Fein could do is step up to the plate to say they regret what
:15:02. > :15:06.happened during the Troubles, they have remorse and they are sorry and
:15:06. > :15:14.they apologised to their victims. That would be a step forward and a
:15:14. > :15:18.positive thing for all of us. Thank you both for driving us. --
:15:18. > :15:22.joining us. Still to come on The View, the
:15:23. > :15:27.power of the coloured -- political cartoon - we look at how
:15:27. > :15:32.cartoonists have portrayed our divided society through the years.
:15:32. > :15:36.It is time to call West - that was the pledge made by the Executive in
:15:36. > :15:40.its Programme for Government in a bid to give the rural regions their
:15:40. > :15:45.fair share of Government jobs. The first Department looks set to be
:15:45. > :15:48.agriculture, but questions have been raised about the decision to
:15:48. > :15:53.select a former army base in Ballykelly as the new headquarters.
:15:53. > :15:57.Our correspondent has had a look inside Shackleton barracks.
:15:57. > :16:01.This was once the road for soldiers and is soon to be the road for
:16:01. > :16:05.civil servants. There are plans to bring jobs to the west and this
:16:05. > :16:10.red-brick building inside the old army base is said to be the new HQ
:16:10. > :16:15.of the Department of Agriculture. The Ballykelly site was ideal as it
:16:15. > :16:21.was an Executive on-site. It will regenerate the local area, and the
:16:21. > :16:25.area is ready positive about the move. The new department means an
:16:25. > :16:29.investment of �26 million, with 800 jobs are expected to transferred to
:16:30. > :16:35.Ballykelly. A great relief for a community hit hard by recession and
:16:35. > :16:41.a series of economic blows. closure of the camp was big for
:16:41. > :16:47.Ballykelly. Then we had at Seagate. A lot of people out of work there.
:16:47. > :16:52.Around this area there is high unemployment. Bringing these jobs
:16:52. > :16:56.and people here to Ballykelly, people using the services, would be
:16:56. > :17:01.a good thing for us. These residents are hoping ministers will
:17:01. > :17:07.give them some of the land for a new community centre. After all, it
:17:07. > :17:11.is a vast site, around 800 acres, some of which is reclaimed land
:17:11. > :17:19.prone to flooding, some of which is contaminated with lead and other
:17:19. > :17:24.dangerous substances. As a gift from the MoD to the kitten. -- to
:17:24. > :17:27.the Executive. The problem is it comes with a huge price tag,
:17:27. > :17:34.millions of Pounds in maintenance and clean-up costs, so high it has
:17:34. > :17:38.caused alarm inside Government. In fact, in 2011 the office of First
:17:38. > :17:42.and Deputy First Minister's accounting officer thought to
:17:42. > :17:46.Shackleton barracks did not represent value for money and
:17:46. > :17:50.Martin McGuinness and Peter Robertson had to step in and is
:17:50. > :17:53.your Ministerial direction. It does not happen very often. It has
:17:53. > :17:59.happened in the past and is only done on occasions when there is
:17:59. > :18:06.very serious concern and the civil servant is unable to stand over the
:18:06. > :18:09.decision. The View can review that last autumn a second Ministerial
:18:09. > :18:15.direction was issued, by the farming minister to have permanent
:18:15. > :18:18.Secretary, when she selected the former army base for her he HQ.
:18:18. > :18:23.He directed your civil servant because you wanted a business case
:18:23. > :18:27.only on Ballykelly as opposed to having appraisals on other areas?
:18:27. > :18:31.Were a big waste a lot of time going through all the areas where
:18:31. > :18:32.it would not happen, this was the it would not happen, this was the
:18:32. > :18:33.logical step. The Finance Minister logical step. The Finance Minister
:18:33. > :18:38.logical step. The Finance Minister has to approve the Ministerial
:18:38. > :18:42.direction. Sammy Wilson did not sign off on it, handing it instead
:18:42. > :18:47.to the Executive, it is thought in part because other departments were
:18:47. > :18:52.involved and uncertainty over staff, and access to the site.
:18:52. > :18:57.The Sami is always going to have something to say about these things.
:18:57. > :19:02.He voiced concerns, but I am content with the approach I have
:19:02. > :19:06.taken. It is reasonable. Jim Allister asked about the
:19:06. > :19:12.appraisal and was told it was standard procedure to fully examine
:19:12. > :19:17.all options, but this would lead to considerable futile work. This all
:19:17. > :19:20.staff memo obtained by The View revealed that struck and topped the
:19:21. > :19:30.department's only criteria when choosing a site, with plum of a day
:19:31. > :19:38.
:19:38. > :19:46.-- Limavady. He of half to choose a location.
:19:46. > :19:51.But you going to go and cost every small area in the North? I think we
:19:51. > :19:56.are on a good fitting. Their age group is currently in the
:19:56. > :20:00.Soviet-style building in Belfast. The union says most staff do not
:20:00. > :20:04.want to go west. The Minister has promised no one will be forced to
:20:04. > :20:09.move and says staff from other departments keen to work close to
:20:09. > :20:14.their rural homes can swap jobs. The union has other concerns. Why
:20:14. > :20:18.did the Minister opt for Ballykelly when legislation says she must
:20:18. > :20:23.first conduct and equality impact assessment? We have asked that
:20:23. > :20:27.quite a few times and we have not received an answer. Before we
:20:27. > :20:33.thought about a judicial review, all we wanted was an explanation.
:20:33. > :20:35.Today, we have not received an explanation. I hope they will be
:20:35. > :20:40.content with the response I have sent them.
:20:40. > :20:44.I am committed to my equality obligations. It is something I take
:20:44. > :20:50.very seriously and it has been done throughout the process. Even those
:20:50. > :20:55.who support the idea of our rural HQ have reservations, insisting the
:20:55. > :21:02.department should first complete the introduction of its new offices,
:21:02. > :21:08.such as this one in Dungannon. What size of a -- head office is
:21:08. > :21:12.needed, then decide where it should go, in that order, rather than just
:21:12. > :21:18.lifting the current position and replicating it somewhere else.
:21:18. > :21:21.The Minister says her rural direct offices are a separate issue. The
:21:21. > :21:25.appraisal for Ballykelly will be ready this summer. In the meantime,
:21:25. > :21:29.the Minister insists she is going in the right direction.
:21:29. > :21:32.If you have any thoughts on that story or anything else on tonight's
:21:32. > :21:38.programme, share them with the team and everyone else who follows us on
:21:38. > :21:42.Twitter. The controversy over Gerald
:21:42. > :21:47.Scarfe's depiction over Binyamin Netanyahu in last weekend's Sunday
:21:47. > :21:50.Times was a reminder of the power of the political cartoon. Our own
:21:50. > :21:55.political controversy is have provided plenty of material over
:21:55. > :21:59.hundreds of years. Lydon Hall Library has one of the best
:21:59. > :22:09.collections in the country and The View has been for a look. --
:22:09. > :22:10.
:22:10. > :22:16.Our second librarian was Thomas Russell, who was a court man,
:22:16. > :22:19.served in the British Army in India, became a founder member of the
:22:19. > :22:26.Belfast United Irishmen, but he was reputed to have been a very
:22:26. > :22:32.handsome man. This is a caricature of Thomas Russell from 1794, drawn
:22:33. > :22:37.either by an enemy in love or an enemy in politics. This is one I
:22:37. > :22:41.particularly like. It is called Belfast through English eyes. On
:22:41. > :22:47.the right hand side you seek sectarian violence happening. This
:22:47. > :22:53.is 1901. The police were keeping well out of it. There are so many
:22:53. > :23:03.similarities today. Queen's University's PT Q4 1936, there is
:23:03. > :23:06.an illustration here, the title is the Battle of York Street, 1990. It
:23:06. > :23:13.shows that in the 1930s people understood, this is a dysfunctional
:23:13. > :23:19.society. This appeared in the Belfast Telegraph on sixth December
:23:19. > :23:25.1980. It is a caricature of Terry Wogan's Blankety Blank. He is
:23:25. > :23:29.saying, I asked for a political solution, the answer was, black.
:23:29. > :23:35.The two protagonists then were James Craig and Joe Devlin, and
:23:35. > :23:39.they are predicted in a never- ending boxing match. In the 1980s
:23:39. > :23:46.and 1990s, the two main protagonists, Ian Paisley and Gerry
:23:46. > :23:50.Adams, cartoons across the world. Joining me to reflect on the art of
:23:50. > :23:53.the cartoonist past and present and the rest of the week's political
:23:53. > :23:58.news, Pete Shirlow and Pollock fan and.
:23:58. > :24:05.Are you a fan? They are really important. They are better whenever
:24:05. > :24:09.they had a run their. In Long Kesh a loyalist prisoner
:24:09. > :24:16.came up and should be a cartoon when loyalists were represented as
:24:16. > :24:19.the under false. He said, is that what people think of me? That
:24:19. > :24:27.actual cartoon made him reflect on his actions and where he was in
:24:27. > :24:33.society, so they were very strong. Our I remember going to a talk
:24:33. > :24:37.given by Steve Bell, the cartoonist for the Guardian, and he said there
:24:37. > :24:42.should be no off lips. There is a lot of criticism of Gerald Scarfe,
:24:42. > :24:47.that he went too far. Is there a line? I think there is a line and
:24:47. > :24:53.you can go too far, but they have to go close to the edge, and at
:24:53. > :24:57.times there is a risk they will get things wrong. But that is the risk
:24:57. > :25:02.they run. And imported in a place like Northern Ireland, that
:25:02. > :25:06.politicians are made to sweat a bit? -- and important.
:25:06. > :25:10.A yes, there is an old saying that someone who does not know how to
:25:10. > :25:16.laugh at themselves, should be given a mirror. You can get through
:25:16. > :25:24.to people very potently, a picture can see a 1,000 words.
:25:24. > :25:27.The best cartoon is mad, the first thing you reach for in the morning.
:25:27. > :25:31.Pete Shirlow, did you think things were moved on by what John O'Dowd
:25:31. > :25:36.and Edwin Poots had to say to each other? It is a very secure the
:25:36. > :25:39.debate, it has not gone anywhere since the Belfast Agreement.
:25:39. > :25:44.Politicians don't realise the extent of trouble within the
:25:44. > :25:49.society. Research conducted at Queen's University has shown since
:25:49. > :25:55.1998 our suicide rate has doubled, increased particularly amongst
:25:55. > :25:58.those we call the Troubles generation. When we look at our
:25:58. > :26:03.neighbours, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland, their suicide
:26:03. > :26:08.rate has gone down. We have turned victims into a lot of noise and
:26:08. > :26:12.clamour, political footballs. We have lost the context of supporting
:26:12. > :26:16.people in their victimhood and their needs. I think that is a
:26:16. > :26:22.priority. One of the fundamental problems is, also, any mechanism to
:26:22. > :26:31.either stop or draw a line under this, or to find truth, we're not
:26:31. > :26:39.going anywhere without that. When John O'Dowd talked about being
:26:39. > :26:43.involved in a peace process, it is also a political process.
:26:43. > :26:49.They should remind people there is a whiff of cordite around a Sinn
:26:49. > :26:54.Fein. Sinn Fein had 19 -- 19% in the
:26:54. > :27:04.polls over the weekend, closing on the main parties. The let us look
:27:04. > :27:05.
:27:05. > :27:10.at Europe tweeter of the week. Yes, it was on Talkback, Alex
:27:10. > :27:16.Ferguson was against paying tribute to Malcolm body. Wendy Austin said
:27:16. > :27:21.he was a great friend and do my lost his accent. Two Scots together.
:27:21. > :27:24.There's, that would be important to Sir Alex Ferguson himself, he comes
:27:24. > :27:29.from working class roots. It is amazing how many people spoke
:27:29. > :27:37.of Malcolm Brodie as a great mentor. They interestingly, he started as a
:27:37. > :27:41.political journalist, which a lot of people don't realise.
:27:42. > :27:48.You met him, you knew him. I met him, all young boy asked for
:27:48. > :27:54.his autograph once, he asked in his age, and he said 174, and walked
:27:54. > :27:58.away, and the kid asked, is he really?! He had a very dry wit and
:27:58. > :28:03.a lovely gravelly voice. And number of World Cups he
:28:03. > :28:06.covered... 14 will cups. Could we do not have
:28:06. > :28:14.been a shock to people if he was 174 years old.
:28:14. > :28:18.He was, of course, 86. Pete Shirlow, what are you looking forward to?
:28:18. > :28:22.The referendum, the questions are changing, if the question is, do
:28:22. > :28:27.you agree that Scotland should be an independent country, and it will
:28:27. > :28:29.be changed to should Scotland be an independent country.
:28:29. > :28:33.People thought it was a leading question?
:28:33. > :28:40.Are thought it was first at what -- interesting that one of the SNP
:28:40. > :28:45.party said we would accept the second question. You would think
:28:45. > :28:49.they would have pushed for the first question.
:28:49. > :28:55.Well we have seen all these A-list celebrities in the city, but one
:28:55. > :28:59.big weekend again today commented... Sir Ian McKellen is in town this
:28:59. > :29:05.week receiving an honorary doctorate from the University of
:29:05. > :29:09.Auch -- University of Ulster and giving the annual Chancellor's
:29:09. > :29:14.speech. The years giving the first --
:29:14. > :29:17.Chancellor's lecture for the first time ever in the Magee campus.
:29:18. > :29:26.I heard someone asking the Chancellor, Jimenez but, how did
:29:26. > :29:32.you get Sir Ian McKellen to, and agree this? He said, I just asked.